Guenther Steiner - F1 made me an absent father

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0:36Welcome to How to Fail, the podcast where we learn about failure in the hopes that we will teach ourselves more about success. And you can join me for more How to Fail in our subscriber series, Failing with Friends. Every week I get some extra time with my guests to answer your failures and questions. This week, you'll hear more from Gunter Steiner. If you've got people around which try to be, to make you somebody you are not, change people. Yes, exactly. Change people, not yourself. Change people around you, not yourself. And we'd love to hear from you. Just follow the link in the podcast notes.

1:19I have never been to a Formula One race. I have, in fact, never even watched one on television. And yet I know more about the sport and its personalities than almost any other, and it's entirely because of the hit Netflix show F1 Drive to Survive. The breakout star of this documentary series is Gunter Steiner, although hilariously, he claims never to have watched it himself. The Italian-born Steiner was, until the end of last year, the team principal of Haas, remarkably the first American constructor to compete in Formula One in three decades. Despite giving the team his heart, soul, and impressive vocabulary of swear words over eight years, Haas experienced a number of setbacks and a disappointing end to 2023, scoring just one point in the final 13 Grand Prix of the season.

2:14And yet Steiner's story is one of hard-won success. He was born in Murano, northern Italy, the son of a butcher. Although he did well at school, he became fascinated by a hill-climb motorsport event that took place near his home. He started out as an apprenticeship mechanic, became a chauffeur and briefly a co-driver for a rally team in the early 90s. Then he entered F1, working at Red Bull and Jaguar, before persuading Haas to launch a team. Early this year, he became an F1 commentator for a German TV channel and was named ambassador for the Miami Grand Prix. I know I'm not everyone's cup of tea, but I'm okay with who I am, Steiner writes in his best-selling book, Survive to Drive.

3:02you can't rehearse the shit I come out with. Gunter Steiner, welcome to How to Fail. Thanks for having me, Elisabeth. It is such a pleasure to have you. Would you like to hear my Gunter Steiner impression? Go ahead. Fucking hell. Was it any good? I think so. It was good, you know. And by the way, I didn't watch Drive to Survive, just to make sure that that is true. Because nobody believes me, you know. I didn't watch it, you know. and you can ask my family. And why have you not watched it? I didn't watch it. When it came out, there was an F1 commission meeting and everybody, F1 commission is all the team principals, the president of the FIA and the CEO of Frem.

3:46And they had the premiere the night before and I woke into this meeting and everybody was like, what did you do? What you said? And I was like, I obviously knew what I did, but I didn't know what they put into the thing. So I was almost scared. You know, when you get this feeling, I actually don't want to be here, you know, and they kept on talking. And then I decided, oh, I better don't watch this because I was embarrassed enough without watching it. Can you imagine if I watch it? Because I'm not an actor, you know, I'm not an actor. So I don't need to watch myself to get better. And I don't like to watch myself anyway.

4:18So I said, I'm not watching it because otherwise, every time I see a camera around me, I wouldn't be myself anymore. Some people don't like it, but if some people don't like it, don't watch it. It's a remote controller. I mean, I think you're being modest because people love it and they love you. And I wonder how that feels because you can barely walk anywhere without being asked for selfies. I mean, I don't know what it was like for you this morning walking to the studio. You've turned up on your own. Did you get stopped a lot? I got stopped twice this morning, you know, until the first one spots you, you know, then other people see it and then they realize who you are.

4:54Because if you just walk, it's not too bad, you know, it's fine. Your accent is one of the unique things about you. Tell me where it comes from, because there are various different influences that have combined to make this voice. Yeah, yeah. That's a nice way to put it, you know. So I'm from Northern Italy. So at home, I speak German. But it's Italy, so I speak fluently Italian after my national service where I moved to Belgium where I learned English. I didn't speak a word of English before moving there. I learned English there. And I think it's just a mix of all these languages which makes me speak like this.

5:32I don't know. For anyone who hasn't watched an F1 race or the Netflix show, what does a team principal do? A team principal is basically like a CEO of a corporate. It's a small corporate, but a corporate with a lot of different things. There is marketing, there is communication, there is technology, there is going racing, there is the operations, there is a lot. But different to a CEO of a big corporate, you get measured every race weekend. A corporate CEO gets measured every three months, every quarter, his numbers. Did you make money or not? In motorsport, you're just as good as your last race.

6:10If you were good last weekend and this weekend you are not good, you are not good. But yeah, it's quite a challenging job. There's also a challenging aspect because there's a sort of mechanical engineering aspect where the team is only as good as its car very often. How much does it rely on the driver and how much does it rely on the car? The best way to explain it is a good driver in a bad car cannot win, but a bad driver in a good car can win. There is no bad F1 driver, but there is the really good ones and the good ones. A good one in a very good car can win, while a very good driver in a bad car hasn't got a chance.

6:50And what makes a really good F1 driver? What are the core skills and characteristics, do you think? It's a natural talent. You know, some people say there is nothing like talent. You can learn everything. I still am a big believer in some. You're born with a talent. You just need to find it. I think the talent is the base. And then it's just like there's so many little things. first of all to get started you need support money and just a little bit of luck but when you get there you just need also mentally you need to be very strong the driving once you get with one it's only part of it you need to be a master of that but it's all the other distractions around you you know all the people which want something all the pressure you get if you are not performing you know you need to know when it's you and when it's the car even if they try to explain you it's you, you need to be sure.

7:42I think you need good people around you. Because when you're young, these guys are coming into Formula One, they're 18, 19. I mean, what do they know? They come into the circus where millions of people adore you. You know, it's so easy to get distracted and believe something you are not. So you need people which keep you grounded, which show you the way. It strikes me hearing you speak, and I know he didn't drive for your team, but Lewis Hamilton embodies all of that. Would you agree? Yeah, I think Lewis is very mature. Also business-wise, very good. He's always calm. Also, he was fortunate enough when the sport was growing and he was at the beginning when the big growth started of the sport.

8:23So he grew with it. He didn't come in when the sport was where it is now. And once you're two or three times world champion, you're good, you know, because you have made your mark, you know, you're credible, you're everything. You just need to stay yourself. You know, you don't need to get distracted by the wrong things. I think he really enjoys who he is and what he does. You have outlined such an incredibly stressful dynamic. And yet you strike me as someone who is so calm. There's a calm energy about you that I actually hadn't anticipated having watched the show. How do you stay calm and how do you manage stress?

8:59I'm normally pretty calm. I'm not very patient, but like in racing, I get excited. But normally in life, I think it's much better to be calm and think about things than just stress. I've got stress, but I manage it myself. You know, I say, yeah, I need to do things. But just by doing things, I put them in a line in my head. I need to get this and this done. You know, I try never to be late because that puts me under stress because I don't like to be late. You know, so I'm always early. You know, so it's like I take that stress away. But in general, if you think things through enough, and I'm sometimes a very late thinker, but I always try to organize them just in time so I'm not getting stressed out.

9:41Sometimes the most difficult things for me to, but I always try to do, to be on top of things as much as I can. And why is there an absence of female Formula One drivers? How long have you got? I can't, but it's something that's always because I don't know. A lot of people ask, and I always want to explain that very good. First of all, we must say there is a big drive now to get a female driver into F1, a good one, not just because she's female. And there is F1 Academy, it's a racing series which started last year, which is run by the CEO of Susie Wolf, the wife of Toto Wolf, you know, and trying to get the talent up there.

10:24I go back to my talent in the beginning. you have got about i just invent a number you've got hundred thousand boys in hundred thousand to find somebody good is a lot easier in hundred thousand than in one thousand girls there is so few females starting young going go-karting because these people need to start at seven eight nine years old how many girls you know which go go-karting very few how many boys quite a lot you You know, what it needs to be done is to get more girls going into the grassroots racing so that there's a bigger pool to get the talent which can make it to F1. And I think this one, F1 Academy, is helping a lot.

11:06I think the class which is racing in the moment in F1 Academy, I think they're already too old to make it to F1 because I think between 17 and 20, something like this. But until they race a few years and go to F2 and it's too late. But at least the girls now, they know there is a ladder into F1. And that is important. And I always say the parents to encourage also girls if they've got interest in now Formula 1. But it will take time because before racing or car and motorsport was seen as a men's sport. It was actually seen in the old days as a macho sport. Then it was a men's sport. But I do not think that physically there is a problem for a female to be a good driver.

11:49Before we get onto your failures, I want to do a quick fire round for the Drive to Survive Geeks, where I'm going to give you a name and you've got to give me one word, the first word that comes to your mind. Are you ready? Ready. Toto Wolff. Good guy. Christian Horner. Good guy.

12:10Lando Norris. Very good driver. Max Verstappen. Very, very, very good driver. okay frédéric vassel i know you're going to be a friend yeah oh look at you being so lovely and diplomatic okay let's get on to your failures your first failure is not winning a world championship title are you still disappointed by that yes i'm disappointed because i don't do anything without the aim to win something you know i'm i'm not in motorsport just to have a job That is not why I'm here. I want to win something. And that's maybe also the reason why all this thing that I left Haas happened because I wanted to move forward and the owner didn't.

12:54So at some point, it's like, I mean, to fight to be eighth, seventh, over and over again, it gets old. I want to achieve more. And at some stage, you rather take a step back to make two forward than keep on doing more of the same when you feel like I'm not actually achieving what I want to achieve. To win a world championship is difficult. And by no means could I say, would I have won it with another team? No. But at least I want to have the chance to put myself in a position to win it. And otherwise, I do something else which I like as good just to work hard. And being not able to win it, knowing that you cannot win it, why would you keep on doing that?

13:30And when you are constantly seventh or eighth or struggling for points and podiums, obviously that's a professional disappointment. But I wonder how it affects you personally. It's frustration more than anything else. I'm actually a very positive person. You know, I say, how can we do it that we get there? You know, and I don't not just think on tomorrow, the next race. I think two, three years ahead because these are big projects and it affects you that you actually wear yourself out. And I just realized that when I left, that I was just treading water. I worked more than I should just to stand still.

14:06After a month or two years away, I saw everything clear again, you know, and I analyze why it wasn't possible and why it was the right thing happening for me you know in the morning i can get can get up and do what i like to do knowing what i want to achieve i have a chance to achieve sometimes change is good and i like my life in the moment what i'm doing you know i'm enjoying it i learn new things and that's what i want to do now and i achieve it in the moment i cannot be world champion because i'm not running a race team but i'm perfectly fine with that but I can achieve what I want to do. I think what comes up again and again as you're talking is the secret to contentment is understanding what you have control over and the things that you don't have control over.

14:48And when you don't have control over something so big, did it ever make you depressed? No, I'm not the person which gets depressed. I maybe get quiet, I call it, you know, you dwell on it. In the end, I think I'm strong enough to say if it doesn't work, I do something different you know I'm not afraid to make a decision you know and I realized it but maybe I didn't want to realize it as is not possible it was a very difficult situation in but then when you get out it became clear very quick you know that this was actually the best thing for me to happen and what was it like for your wife during that time seeing you go quiet or and having this conflict with your dream but not being able to fulfill it I mean I'm married now this year 30 the year she knows me pretty well you know so yeah i think she realized that something was not right she knows me a long time and she knows that i'm somebody who puts 100 percent in at any time you know and she didn't want to interfere but i think if if we would if she would be sitting here now and we would ask her i think she she could tell you that she could see that i was somehow not in the right place you know sometimes you know that it was not going well you know that something is bothering me when you got that call i think it was in december 2023 last year yeah 23 yeah saying that you your contract was not going to be renewed and you lost your job how did that feel indifferent really that's so revealing yeah i tried to find solution to get out of this hole i was in but they were not accepted when it happened it was like i don't care i i didn't want to take the blame for being where the team was because it wasn't me it's for some other reason it's not my company i need to respect that you know i'm big enough to do that you can do what you want but i'm fine with it tell me a little bit about young gunter and this obsession that you had with cars and with racing from quite an early age it sounds like so what were you like as a child how would you describe yourself the perfect child i always listened to my parents you know it was always nice you know why don't i believe you no i i just had this passion and i don't know where it comes from it's one of these things it's like my family had nothing to do with racing where i come from there is there is this one race there was it's not there anymore also that is forbidden you know there was no racing i just was attracted by racing cars and cars in general but i love just racing cars no idea where i came from not nobody in the family nowhere close friends nothing i just was obsessed by it and i always begged my father to take me to that one race which was in the region because traveling in them days was a lot more difficult than now he took me quite a few times my dad over the years but no idea where i came from and it was one of my dreams to work in racing and how i got in was weird as well you know it's like after my national service there was a job adworked in a magazine you know we didn't have internet at the time so You read magazines and I just wrote a letter to them and they said, come for an interview.

17:57And they accepted me in Belgium, you know, from, and we are talking about the 80s, you know, it was a different world. A lot of people which listen to this now, you know, they're a lot younger than this, but it was a completely different world. But I got accepted and I went to Belgium, lived a little bit more than two years in Belgium and enjoyed every day of it. And there my career in motorsports started. And did your parents understand it? my dad passed away when i was 18 i'm so sorry so he was not around anymore yeah my mom my mom understood it you know she was fine with it you know she supported me you know she said try something different you know if you don't try you never get anything so this failure to win a world championship title because this is a podcast all about learning and what data we can acquire from failures what do you think you've learned from it what i think i learned of it is i should have left earlier when you get the feeling it's not right listen to your feeling you know i had the feeling but then obviously being in f1 you're attracted it's it's you know everybody's interested you create a lot of interest in it and you are almost afraid to call it quits you know but then when you call it quits it's actually better you know whatever it is i think and you rightly say failure makes you good in my opinion you know you know you have to be careful with failures as well if you fall too hard it's not good you know but but anyway and and what i learned here is like next time around or whenever it is i i i will listen more to my inner feelings you know not to my ego

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20:42do you think you could be a team principal again i think i could yeah but i don't know i don't go around to shop for a job as a team principal i'm not doing that if there is a project out there where i like the project and i can see something possible to do with the support the people involved in it yes i do it but i'm not hunting for a team principal job in the moment I'm very busy now. I enjoy what I'm doing now. I set up a company. I've got my own company in North Carolina in the States, which, you know, gives me some security or quite a good security. I was lucky as well in life. I always had, always, 90 % of the time, the jobs I had, I really enjoyed them.

21:23You know, I can do what I like to do in life, you know, and that's something, it's a privilege and I know that, you know, so I want to continue to do this. I'm doing TV work. i enjoy it because i learn a lot at some stage maybe i don't want to do it anymore but then i go and do the next thing because thing after thing comes because after i left house it when it was announced uh i thought i've got a year i take it easy you know because spend a little bit more time with the family and enjoy life the day after it was announced i got the phone started ringing emails can you do this you want to do this you want to do that because and then all of a sudden you're in this uh mill again just doing a different job but i'm i'm very busy so i mean but i'm enjoying it and i need to work hard because at the races with tv work and appearances you know you're on a schedule but i i like it and i choose to do it you know i don't have to do it which is a nice thing to be it's not something i'm upset in the morning when i wake up not to be a team principle i'm pretty good with it not being one yeah you touched on it there about spending time with your family and it brings us on to your second failure which i'm i'm really touched that you have chosen to talk about this with me thank you your second failure as you put it is as her father not spending enough time with greta your daughter when she was young and growing up yeah uh it uh i i got a father pretty late you know she's only 15 how old are you sorry 22 59 59 59 59 59 59 So how old were you I'm trying to do the math 44 44 44 Yeah So it was pretty late And at the time I was setting up my company And there was a lot more at home And what's your company Sorry It's a composite company Okay We have got now 230 people My business partner Hans said Yeah We grew up pretty well And my business partner Hans said You know Day to day basis So they don't want me Because I messed it up You know by the way So So, no, I started that company and then Greta was born.

23:27We started the same year. I started the company when she was born, but I was a lot at home. And then all this Hars F1 started and I started to travel. I think a lot of people say when they get older, I regret not to have seen my kids enough. And I always thought, yeah, that is just a jargon. You know, everybody says that. But then now that I had the chance to be more at home, I had the chance, am I away again? I could see how much she missed it. You know, I was not really aware how much she missed it. And now she starts to complain again because I'm gone a little bit more like in the beginning of the year.

24:04But I still, and that's the thing is like, yeah, did I miss out? Yes, absolutely. I'm not proud of myself, you know, about that one. But then it's one of these other things. I was on a mission as well. and I try to give back as much as I can. You never can give back time. The only thing you cannot buy is time. So I will never overcome this, but I realized it and I try somehow to make up for it. She mentioned pretty often, you know, you're always away. And now if I go away, she actually says, you're going away again. You said you stay at home. So it makes you feel guilty. But when you're in this run, you know, when you keep on going and going, you actually do not realize what you miss out of you know until it's the same like when you're in it you just don't realize it you know and i always thought when i was younger yeah everybody says oh i missed seeing my children growing up you know but until you experience it i mean i at least didn't realize how important it is what do you think you missed out on uh just being around for her because uh i i think i missed out to understand how much a child actually loves loves you you know because you you took out of priorities and somehow they feel that they are not number one in your life you just miss out on time you can spend with them and as i said before you cannot buy time you you mentioned earlier that your father died when you were 18 and i wonder how that has informed your own approach to fatherhood and to time?

25:43It's difficult to say because, I mean, if the father goes this, you know, I was very young. I had a whole life in front of me. You deal with the situation and maybe my parents, they worked very hard to give us a good upbringing, you know, so they were not always around. And maybe I was maybe used a little bit to that one, you know, to be on my own a lot and then didn't realize that that is not normality. For me, normality is different than maybe it should be. And then I assumed also to Greta that this, because this was normal for me, it should be normal for her. And you don't realize, I mean, you make a good point there.

26:21And how was your wife coping with this situation? Because you do have to travel an enormous amount. You're on the road 10 months a year. So she presumably was a full-time parent. did you ever feel that you were letting her down i said before i'm married 30 years this year and when when when we met she doesn't know any different it's not an excuse it's a fact you know obviously she wasn't happy and what i always tried to do when it was possible not to take her to all the races because there's no point to take your your partner to work you know but when there was a nice place we went to she for example came to about four to five races a year which makes it a lot better but it is not easy and i have a lot of respect for that you know uh for her that she brought gret up you know and i'm very thankful of that but it's one of these things it gets normality and it shouldn't be but you know it's normality but i i know it is not normal but in the end on a day-to-day basis you don't think i don't thank her every day that she does it but she knows that i actually respect it a lot you know but also i think what she knows I need to be happy in what I'm doing.

27:35Otherwise I'm a miserable person. You know, me having, having me sitting at home with nothing to do is not fun. I'm just not fulfilled. You know, I'm, I'm in a bad mood. I'm, you know, bored. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, she knows that I always need something to do. And sometimes she tells me, you know, like in the moment, you need to calm down a little bit. You're trying to do too much again, but that's my nature. You know, I always want to do something so i think i still have to find that happy balance between doing too much and doing too little there's something in between but i never hit that so how do you think you've stayed married for 30 years what what was what are the secrets to it i think uh we get on very well you know we respect each other you know and i think respect is a lot of each other obviously every marriage She's got these problems.

28:25I mean, our one was not perfect, I must say, you know, but it was good. You know, it was very good. And I mean, she's here now with me in London. You know, I take her with me because she loves London. I said, just come with me. You know, we try to spend time together. But I think it's just because when we moved from our home place, we moved to, I lived in the UK for 10 years. We got married. And the year after we moved to England, then we moved to the States. We always did this together. It was always, she was there for the adventure with me. And I think that kept it together. If I would have said, oh, you stay back in Italy, you know, I come back, then no, let's do it.

29:00You know, let's do this. And if it doesn't work, we go and do something different. I think that's what it is. And I think she quite likes, you know, the adventures she must be because otherwise she wouldn't be with me, you know, because it's not a boring life she's having, you know, being married with me for 30 years. because as you can imagine, sometimes I'm not the easiest guy to deal with. But I think it's just like we started a trip and we are still traveling, you know? I love that. You're going on the adventure together. Tell me about Greta and what she's like. Apparently she doesn't let you order in restaurants because she's embarrassed by your accent.

29:35Is that right? Oh yeah, yeah, that is, yeah. In the States, you know, it's like, I order because they don't understand you. You have a terrible accent, you know? She's pretty outspoken. Oh yeah, she speaks her mind, but no she's in general a good girl i mean she's got her own mind which i'm actually proud of you know she's not shy of anything uh but uh and i think she enjoys life is she into cars at all no no i mean she's into cars because she started to drive now she's 15 in the states she can drive so but she's not into cars i mean she looks a little bit at it but not like that she's passionate about it.

30:13Now, what about swearing? Because I noticed that you haven't sworn at all during the course of this conversation. On TV, you do swear a lot, presumably because you're under a lot of pressure. At home, do you swear? No. At home, I don't swear. And they always say, they come people wherever I work. I've got the switch, you know, in front of the press. I don't swear you know this swearing just comes when you know when i speak between uh people you know it just comes into but it's not badly meant you know i don't swear at people i i swear about circumstances normally you know normally there is the exception you know but but but when you are racing there it comes up you know there you use i use this language and i don't know where it comes from but i lose control over it but when i'm in in an environment where you are not allowed to swear I don't have even to I just don't do it it's like as I said before with the language I think in English when I speak English German when I speak German when I speak somebody like you here I don't even do I don't even have to think it's just not it's not going to happen You're fluent in non-swearing language Yeah exactly I speak four languages you know English non-swearing English German and Italian Do you swear in other languages?

31:31Yeah What's your favourite language to swear in? English I mean, they are good. They are good. It's the hard sound. Exactly. It says something. Do you swear? I love swearing. What does your husband say? He loves swearing. Okay. Actually, it's so interesting you said that because one of the things we met on a dating app, we met on Hinge, and he said one of the first things that attracted him to me was the fact I swore in my profile. I said fuck in my profile or something. Not in that context.

32:05And he liked that. Yeah. So it bonded us. So I can imagine when you have a fallout, the language used there, or you never fall out with your... We don't. We're good communicators. It's a second marriage. You swear at each other, yeah. We swear at the situation. We do a good to Steiner. We swear at the situation, but not at each other. I think it's a second marriage and we both learned from the failure of the first. So actually we're good at communicating. So it's generally okay. Anyway. Generally okay. I love that we've spoken about swearing and you still haven't sworn. and I'm just so impressed.

32:35Final question on this failure. What advice would you give to anyone who is a parent who is potentially feeling that tension between work and family and maybe feels, if they're honest with themselves, that they are working too hard and time is passing them by? What advice would you give? I think some people haven't got the choice. They need to do the work, but then try to integrate it. As I said, if I travel, I make the effort to take the family with me sometimes. I mean, Greta came with us to a few races, you know, just to try to make up like this when you're around. Very, very difficult to do.