Letitia Wright - ‘I was bullied… now I’m Black Panther’

0:00For me, it felt like the whole of London. all the young people in London gathered on the internet and trolled me. Back then, I didn't know that there was such thing as counselling or therapy. These are things I never said before. Welcome to How To Fail. Now, this is the podcast where every week I ask my guests about three times they think they failed in their life and what they learnt along the way. Before we get into this conversation, please do remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode of How To Fail. A boy goes missing from a bus stop in Queensland, Australia. His disappearance made national headlines and launched the largest search for a missing child in Australia's history.

0:43There were over 700 persons of interest. It was absolutely enormous. Now, for the first time, his parents share with a global audience their journey to uncover what happened to their son. We'd said right from the start, who's ever responsible had picked on the wrong family. So we just made it our life's work. We're going to hunt you down. And if not for the parents, the case might still be unsolved. But in the end, the pressure led cops to take shocking risks and go to extraordinary lengths to catch this perpetrator. The master deceiver was deceived and manipulated himself. We did to him what he did to Daniel.

1:22From Sony Music Entertainment and Campside Media, this is Where Is Daniel Morcom? Coming October 1st to The Binge. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Letitia Wright always had an inner feeling that she was destined to do something big. From her early childhood in Guyana to her teenage years in Tottenham, North London, she carried this feeling with her, starting to experiment with acting. As a child, she would reenact scenes from her favourite movies, recording one character's part on her laptop, then playing them back and acting the other characters too. When a teacher suggested she join an after-school drama club, her course was set.

2:06And by 15, she was taking headshot selfies in the bathroom mirror and hand-delivering them to casting agents. By 17, she had her first professional gig on Holby City. A stellar career has followed, from parts in Top Boy and Black Mirror to her dazzling performance as Shuri in Black Panther and its sequel Wakanda Forever, to winning the BAFTA Rising Star Award in 2019, starring in Steve McQueen's Small Axe and directing the short film Highway to the Moon. Along the way, she experienced and dealt with periods of depression and anxiety. She credits her faith, family and friends for getting her through.

2:51Wright is currently appearing on stage at London's The Bush Theatre in a sold-out run of Not Your Superwoman, a new play written by Emma Dennis Edwards and co-starring Bridgerton actress Golda Rochevel. The production has garnered rave reviews. It's an impressive CV for someone who is still only 31, but who continues to describe herself as just a young kid on the inside with a big dream. Letitia Wright, welcome to How to Fail. Thank you. That is the most beautiful introduction ever written. Oh, you're so lovely. That means a lot. I was very moved by that child. First of all, growing up in Guyana, spending your first eight years there, you were a country girl, weren't you?

3:41I really did not know I was a country girl, honestly. Like I thought I was just quite normal. But yes, I grew up like feeding the chickens and looking after the cows. I just thought that was a normal way of living until years later, I would return to Guyana. And then I would say, I'm a city girl. And they're like, no, you're not. You're a country girl. You grew up in the countryside. And I was like, I did. It was just simple. Everything was just so simple back then. Did it feel more complicated immediately when you came to England? Absolutely. I was eight and I was like, why is it so cold? It was just a culture shift.

4:25Not only the weather, but also with my accent and just the world, just everything about London was different. there was different types of opportunities but it was just a different way of living and we I had to adapt very quickly and I felt like that's where the acting skills started to kick in you know I had to adapt at school people would like be looking at my accents the kids would be like what are you trying to say and had to go home and look at myself in the mirror and try to copy a British accent or copy the kids so they can understand me I adapted very quickly and then And I just accepted like, yeah, this is my new life and this is where my family have decided to reside.

5:07And, you know, I will take all the opportunities that I can and make the most of it. And I did. I imagine that whole shape shifting is so useful for your craft. But I wanted to ask you about the tapes that you used to make of yourself reciting lines from your favourite movies. Is it true that you got into trouble with your aunt? Yes, I got into a lot of trouble with my aunt and at a young age, a teenage years, you know, I didn't have a lot of friends. So I'd stay inside and watch movies on my laptop. And I'd watch movies with leading actresses. You know, I'd watch Naomi Harris. I'd watch Kiki Palmer.

5:48um I remember watching uh Winter's Bone and and really falling in love with with um with her character and just feeling like oh my goodness like I would love to play a part like that and I'd print out the lines and literally recite it and then I took it too far one day um my aunt has this camera and she recorded my cousin's wedding on it and I picked up this camera and I was just like you know forget the laptop I need to record myself doing a monologue and I recorded over the wedding oh my goodness and I thought I was crying and everything in the monologue really like giving it I'm the only one who's viewed it by the way up to this point and then my aunt just one day it was silent in the house and my aunt's like Letitia oh my god what is wrong with this girl and I was like Auntie Anne what's wrong and she was just like oh lord god you're recording over you're recording over Rachel's wedding and oh my god my aunt was so upset and it just it shouldn't have done that right I was what like 13 14 and I remember going back to my room and I sat down and it was just that moment of like Tish you have to make it this acting has to happen because you just recorded over your cousin's wedding and your aunt is not joking about it and I just kind of prayed that one day it would be something that I could look back at and laugh at and my aunt could be proud of me and thankfully that has happened oh it's such a great story so your aunt has forgiven you she absolutely has forgiven me um the the last public thing we did together um for me celebrating my acting I took her to the Wakanda um forever premiere she's gone to all mostly all of my Black Panther premieres in the UK and the last thing I took her to was Madame Tussauds to see three wax works of myself and she was in awe and she was crying and I was just like yes oh see auntie yeah that video I took wasn't in vain and I'm still sorry it was worth it we will come on to Wakanda in a moment but tell me about Not Your Superwoman yeah it's about mothers and daughters isn't it yep it's a beautiful play that the the concept and and the start of it was really Lynette Linton and she wanted to work with Golda and we're all three of us we have Guyanese heritage so she was just like I want to make something that would just take a look at what black women go through in terms of the lineage and the generations of different issues different things whether it's motherhood whether it's mental health, whether it's just that notion of superwoman schema, like you just have to get up and keep going.

8:50That doesn't only relate to black women, but just women in general. Like we can't stay down for too long. We have to pick ourselves up and keep going. And we're never allowed a break in society to feel, to heal, to hurt, to experience. I really appreciate your desire to do work with meaning and with intention and it does seem to me the thing that has connected all of your roles is that you have really thought about which ones to say yes to. And prime amongst that, of course, and what many people will know you for is Black Panther. And what I appreciate about the role that you took on there is that, yes, you are a princess, but not in the conventional sense.

9:35Because you're a scientist, you're brilliant, you're the one who becomes Black Panther in Wakanda forever. And apparently you inspired a generation of young girls to study STEM subjects. how much were you aware of that the kind of radical nature of it when you took on the part I didn't know fully what I was getting myself into I didn't research about I didn't do too much research basically meaning I knew who my director was but I didn't go I didn't go digging because I knew if I went digging I'd see there's Michael B Jordan there's Chadwick there's Lupita Nyong 'o, there's Danai Gurira, there's all of these powerhouse actors already attached and I would then be glorifying working with them instead of focusing on the purpose of the script.

10:27So I completely ignored the full email of this could potentially be a Marvel film, completely ignored that and went straight for the lines, printed it out and locked in on the character and just recorded it and sent it and then once I started to realize that I was getting closer that's when the anxieties started to kick in and I had to really just regulate myself I had to really just lock in I had to pray I had to just stay focused because the anxiety was kind of like trying to discourage me to say this is not your moment you're dreaming here it's not going to happened for you just all of these negative thoughts started to literally bombard me and I had to shut it out to the point where I was this close to not going on that plane to do that screen test with Chadwick Boseman I was so close to not doing it because of the negative thoughts and I just had to just be brave and say this is my moment this is my time whatever happens on the other end as long as I do a good job as long as I dedicate myself to this audition that's all that matters right now just focus on this this part and before Chadwick walked into the room I just took it bit by bit and I just wanted to do my best that day so yeah that's how I conquered that and I think I'll be honest with you it didn't even hit me when I was filming I was more nervous when I was filming more than anything because I kept messing up stuff I was I'm green I'm still green you know when it's the biggest film sets in the world sometimes I felt like I was letting everybody down and it was until the premiere in in LA that I watched the film and I was like whoa oh my goodness everything I prayed about everything I wanted to be everything I wanted to manifest in terms of purpose is literally on that screen I want to come back to some of the things that you mentioned there as they pertain to your failures but I also want to get into them now because they're so good.

12:33And you said to me before we started recording that you had so many failures, your words, to choose from, but that you'd focused on these ones because they had taught you something. So thank you for that. No, thank you. And your first failure is an audition when you were around 17 years old. Yeah. What happened? Oh, my dear goodness. It was this audition. I remember it so vividly. It was Naguid Street Station. and it was for a feature film, an independent feature film, established actors and I remember I prepared as much as possible, I walked in and you know when you can feel it in the air that something is just not clicking and I remember like going into the room and I was auditioning and I could feel how bad it was.

13:24The lines are not coming out properly. You're not feeling the character properly. Like the director's kind of like looking in agony, like, oof. The producers are like, oof. And I was just like, I'm so sorry. It felt like a failure to me, like my first big failure. Because I know like when I left, I didn't brush it off. I went and I sat in a Starbucks and I cried. And I was like, I don't think acting's for me. I don't think I can do this. That was a big hit. This is a huge opportunity and you just fumbled it. And I just felt so terrible. And of course, I did not get the part. I went to another actress and I remember like seeing the advertisements for the movie and stuff and just feeling really terrible.

14:13but in that moment what I learned from that was like sometimes things happen that you may want you know so badly and when it doesn't go your way it tests your character like who will you be after this point will you accept that failure and and accept that okay that lie like this is not for you quit quit whilst you're ahead while nobody knows who you are or will you just let it shape you and make you better and cause you to go and study your craft and take more acting lessons and study more audition tapes so I just had to pick in that moment who I was going to be because if I didn't I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you and this desire to act was quite unique in your family.

15:11Yeah. So when this happened to you and you flunked the audition and you felt really terrible, who did you turn to? Did you have anyone to turn to or was it a sort of inside job? It was a little bit of both. You know, I turned to my mom and my dad and, you know, just, hey, I didn't have a good day today. I didn't have a good audition. My mom would always encourage me and say, hey, like, it's okay. it's a it's a it's a not a good one it didn't go your way today but keep going keep trying but it's also um my enneagram number is number three right i don't know if you've ever done i have and i can never remember which my number is okay do it again i'll do it again i've done human design does that okay i've not done that but my yeah my number is number three and it's like overachiever and I was like of course though I can speak to my parents and I can like say hey I had a bad day today I would carry that with me I'd carry that failure with me I'll carry that moment just seeing the faces of those people in the audition room going and trying to hide it and was like so I would internalize it and I would allow it to like eat away at my good thoughts and that's something that I had to like kind of like manage from very early on and then I didn't know that it was gonna lead me to a path of depression but it was like the beginnings of it it was like those really harsh thoughts of giving up you're a failure like you're not gonna make it and it would start from those moments of like not achieving something that I thought I was gonna achieve so though I had the support it was also a mental and a personal and internal battle that I had to conquer with for myself because if I couldn't conquer it there's not many words my mom could use to help me yes you I suppose I wanted to know how much acceptance you think has to play in feeling like a failure after this audition.

17:23Did it also feel like you weren't being accepted, that you were being rejected? Yeah, of course. And it's still happening today where, okay, we've done our press night. And then the first thing we all say to each other is don't read the reviews. We just did press night to hear what the critics have to say. but we have to condition ourselves to not read reviews so we don't take a negative review and let it stain the whole of our experience of the show because you're trying to protect yourself so at a young age I had to find a balancing act of how do you do your do the thing you love also take critique not allow it to make you depressed and sad if something doesn't go your way and how do you also find acceptance and how so and how do you also not care about people's acceptance so you can survive it that's a battlefield yes I really appreciate your honesty And I know so many listeners will as well, because in our own ways, we, so many of us experience something similar on a much smaller scale every single day.

18:36So thank you for that. You're welcome. So within that context then, fame. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Yeah. What was that like? So do you experience fame as part of your purpose or part of your challenge? Both. It's an extension of what I do. I see it as I was doing this in a small little room in Tottenham and nobody knew but my aunt and my mum and my siblings. I'll be like, what are you doing in there? And cousin Rachel, who's wedding vision. And cousin Rachel. I'm on a project that's of a bigger platform that's more eyes. It has taught me a lot. It's taught me about my responsibility. in what I say, what I do, how I conduct myself.

19:30I would say, I would like to say lucky, but I've been very blessed to be able to do this and still have a very protected private life. What is the craziest fame thing that's happened to you? Not much. Is there someone you met who were like, I cannot believe I'm getting to meet this person right now? Oh my goodness. Naomi Harris was is on the top of the list I've been watching her since I was a teenager studying all of her work because she was the first person the first woman in the UK that I could see myself when I look at her um and I wanted her to be my mentor and I asked after Breakthrough Brit's team to to figure it out and help me connect with her and she's now like a big sister to me I can message her anytime about anything and she's always got time for me meeting Denzel was like really cool I'm not gonna lie I think that's my favorite one Denzel Washington how did you meet him uh oh dear I love a story that starts like that yeah oh dear so so we so we I missed my opportunity to meet him actually in New York um when we were promoting the first Black Panther and we were on our way to Calvin Klein it was my first like runway show thing and it was like me Lupita Michael B and Chad and then Chad was late and he was like where's Chad where's Chad and then Chad came after he's like where are you bro and he was just like I had to speak to Denzel I was like that's so cool you got to meet Denzel that's not fair um and then years later we were filming on Wakanda Forever and there's like a little bit of like not commotion but there was a little bit of like gathering around a particular trailer and I was like who's that and they're like DW and I'm like who's DW I said oh my god so I stood outside the trailer and I was like hi sir nice to meet you that was the best handshake in the world so he's just like i'm just i'm just just visiting i said okay then he came on set he sat and um he was at the monitor and i was just looking at him like are you gonna sit here through my scenes sir he absolutely did and then yeah he was denzel was just watching us as we were acting he's just set visiting um and it was beautiful it was beautiful to to to to see him in the flesh and just to sit with him make jokes and he was just cool and then he also he also called me out he was like you're gonna be a director and I was like what the heck you just got here you don't know anything about me I was like I did not have a desire to direct he's like I can see you directing one day and I was like sir what do you mean he's just like yeah you look yeah you look like you're going direct and then Ryan said it after I was like Tish you look like You're going direct.

22:34Your brain, you're always thinking about different things. And that became true. So that was one of my favourite encounters. One of my favourite people to meet, Denzel, yeah. DW. DW. Was it a firm handshake? Yeah, very firm. Love to hear him. Yeah, he's a gentleman too. Got lots of jokes. A boy goes missing from a bus stop in Queensland, Australia. His disappearance made national headlines and launched the largest search for a missing child in Australia's history. There were over 700 persons of interest. It was absolutely enormous. Now, for the first time, his parents share with the global audience their journey to uncover what happened to their son.

23:23We'd said right from the start, who's ever responsible had picked on the wrong family. So we just made it our life's work. We're going to hunt you down. And if not for the parents, the case might still be unsolved. But in the end, the pressure led cops to take shocking risks and go to extraordinary lengths to catch this perpetrator. The master deceiver was deceived and manipulated himself. We did to him what he did to Daniel. From Sony Music Entertainment and Campside Media, this is Where Is Daniel Morecambe? Coming October 1st to The Binge. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. your second failure talking uh about this rejection from this audition which was a very sort of salutary turning point for you at 17 but at 18 years old you get a part in top boy and that becomes a smash hit show and your second failure is allowing online bullying after that release to discourage you from acting yeah and i did not realize there was online bullying yeah I'm so sorry you experienced that tell us what happened yeah the the I did I did the project and it came out on my birthday and I was still in college at this time we had like Twitter was was quite popular and um MySpace and but Facebook Facebook and Twitter was popular and I remember like the show would come out and everybody would be online doing commentary as the show was like airing and it was just a lot of hateful comments um mostly targeting my body size mostly targeting my skin mostly targeting just me nothing to do with my acting um but most of it was like she looks like this she looks like that and I'm 18 and at 18 when you see these things you instantly believe them you instantly go into a hole and again this is one of those things that my parents couldn't help me out of because they could say the nice words they can say Letitia you're beautiful don't listen to these these young people but for me it felt like the whole of London all the young people in London gathered on the internet and trolled me and it felt so horrible and I remember I didn't continue watching the TV show alongside everybody else I locked myself into my room for like a week and I'd refuse to go to college I didn't want to go so I stayed in my room I would cry I wouldn't eat and I was just like yeah I didn't want to do the tv show anymore i was just like one i'm getting bullied and two this is not what i wanted to represent i didn't want to represent a character like that i'm not judging anybody else but for me i really believed like i wanted to do something different i wanted a different path i wanted to represent because your character was a drug dealer from a state i didn't want to do that and even when i did it at the beginning i was talking to my mom like mom this is not something I really want to do but it's an opportunity and she's like it's acting so see how it goes and I remember like I was doing it and then I was like all respects to everybody else this is just not for me I was my peer my the people I looked up to Kiki Palmer Naomi Harris like they were doing so many different versatile roles and I believed that for myself and this wasn't on the path that I wanted for me yes it's a part of my my my path right now it helped me and it helped me to grow but it just it just didn't feel good when it came out I didn't get to celebrate as much as everybody else did because I was being attacked online and I feel like that was a failure for me because I really allowed those negative thoughts and can't be too hard on myself because I was just a teenager but I allowed those thoughts that I tried to avoid or that I worked so hard on to not happen I conquered that audition that I failed at hey give up you shouldn't do it you're you're not good that's a lie I'm gonna keep going and now I'm on another path and there's a new a new level new devil of of negative thoughts and negative things attacking me so then I had to conquer that but in that moment spending a week in my room not eating crying feeling terrible not loving myself not feeling beautiful not feeling good enough it was to the point where people were calling me anorexic and I didn't even know what that word was until I saw it and I was like I eat food it's just my metabolism my body is different God made my body different but the kids like the young people online were really like she's anorexic she looks ugly she looks this she looks that she's not pretty she's not beautiful why did they even cast her so many bad things and I allowed them to win for that week and then I had to go back to college and that's when another week of torment happened I went to college and I'd walk in and people were looking at me up and down people were laughing at me and I remember like Like, these are things I never said before.

29:07I remember, like, getting my lunch and having nowhere to sit. And I was like, okay, I'm going to go to the drama room. And I know upstairs in the drama room, there's a room that you go in and it's just dark and I can sit by myself. Yeah, and I just, yeah, I just remember, like, going in there, like, sitting and, like, crying and being like, this is mad. Like, this is my dream. So why do I feel so bad? and then I had to like decide that I had to do it for myself I had to decide like no matter what anyone says about me whether they like something I do whether they I have to do this for me because this is my dream this is my talent this is something God has given to me and I have to see it through so I remember like literally by myself eating my lunch crying and being like damn this was meant to be so amazing and it's not but what are you going to do from this point it was another like crossroads moment are you going to fail are you going to accept this moment of failure or you're going to pick yourself up and keep going and I really thank god that I kept going because years later my peers from that tv show was like so proud of you you've achieved so much and I'm you have no clue what I went through you know not only did I not want to portray a character like that because for me it wasn't my path no judgment to anyone else but it just wasn't for me but also being bullied whilst doing something that I loved you know something that my acting shall I say like portraying a character being on set being on being in front of a camera those are the things I loved I was learning one of the best directors in the industry was directing me Yen Demage like I was literally learning and then I just felt like the two were not compatible my purpose was not meeting joy and I needed to find my purpose and my joy in a character and in a world that was gonna elevate me and I was gonna celebrate me and no matter what they said I was gonna walk away feeling proud so I remember that that's one of the things I took away from that experience that no matter what happens when you pick a role Letitia you're going to pick a role that you're so proud of whether people say didn't like that one or I loved it are you proud enough to say and are you confident enough to say I picked this because I felt like I was the right vessel I'm proud of my choice it's a part of my legacy that's it and that's what came out of that experience wow leticia that blows my mind that you went through that pain and now you sit before us as this globally recognized talent and beauty and i'm so glad that you made it through that period of your life and i feel your pain like across the studio like i feel it yeah you've spoken in the past about a period of depression in your early 20s I think it was was this part of that catalyst do you think yeah it was all like is that thing again of like the superwoman schema of like something happens you feel it for a little while you move on back then you didn't know I didn't know that there was such thing as counseling or therapy that I could tap into so most of the things that I was dealing with I dealt with them through maybe watching cinema I would like find tv shows or movies that I could just like get lost in as an escapism um but yeah like slowly all of those things kind of like if you want to call it like compound interest just came together and it was just like this this halting moment of like you need to stop because all of these experiences have fed into this lie that this defines you and you're not where you want to be and your career is not where you need it to be so you failed and I was constantly battling that um constantly comparing myself it became so bad to the point when I even booked a job and I was filming that job and I was in that role I would be thinking about what's next because it wasn't good enough and I knew something was wrong because how could you not feel like this is good enough why can't you be a good steward over what you have right in front of you it's not good enough no it's not my film is not at Sundance my film is not a can film festival I don't have a book I'm not in the blockbuster hit blockbuster film this summer I failed my peers are doing this that person's doing that and it just all came together and just came crashing down on me and then I just felt like I wasn't being the person that I truly was meant to be I was comparing myself um I was hard on myself I couldn't celebrate myself and it needed to stop because if it didn't it was gonna downward spiral and I probably again wouldn't be sitting here in front of you.

34:30How are you today? Oh my goodness, way better. It's funny, like when I do these interviews, it reminds me of so much because I still have that mentality of, okay, cool, keep focused, keep going, focus on what's ahead of you or what's in front of you. But doing interviews like this, where you would recall things that were part of my childhood or my teenage years, or asks me, hey, what are three things that you want to reflect on that you felt like you failed and you conquered? It takes me back and it makes me reflect and it makes me really grateful for the progress and the woman that I am today.

35:14Everything is still a, there's still challenges, but there's different types of challenges. The challenge now is to maintain what I have and to be better. I still want to grow, but I try to keep it simple for myself. There is no desire for fame because thankfully I've been a part of projects that have a bigger platform and a wide exposure. And I'm grateful that my artistry can allow for people to trust in me, to come see my work, to sell out my show before I even premiered it, you know, alongside Golda. what's the story that's going to lead you to add to the wall of legacy that you're building with these projects?

36:03And that keeps me very peaceful and that keeps me very sane. And pure. And pure. There's a purity to it. Sometimes there's an interception of negative thoughts and negative desires. desires whether it be i want more this you don't need more things you've been very blessed and i have to remind myself of that and the progress as well of being that little girl being that teenager that got bullied being that teenager got bullied in school it's called all types of names and then you're you're ambassador for prada three years in a row it it's just like the growth is just so beautiful but the north star remains the same the industry that I'm in I absolutely still love it but I still keep it to a distance in terms of the potential that it has to influence me in the wrong way to make me feel like I'm not good enough in in its little in its little ways but I try to conquer that by just remaining focused on my purpose so that's all I'm going to be chasing until I'm old and grey and I'm ready to depart from this earth.

37:17My purpose. So that's where I'm at today. I'm that young girl from Tottenham that's still chasing her purpose.

37:35When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, The secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets Mom's 60th. And never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end-to-end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. Learn more at whatsapp.com. Lemu, Lemu and I always tell you to customize your car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. But now, we want you to feel it. Cue the emu music, Lemu. Save yourself money today. Increase your wealth.

38:18Customize and save, we say. That may have been too much feeling. Only pay for what you need at LibertyMutual.com. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. Savings vary underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates excludes Massachusetts. Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just$5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time. Prices and participation may vary. Your final failure takes us back to what DW and Ryan were saying when they said you're going to direct one day.

38:55And you made a beautiful short film, Highway to the Moon. But you've put this as your third failure. Why? The process of it. The most recent thing in my life or the most recent experience in my life that made me feel like I failed until I was proven wrong. I made this film out of the, just the love in my heart that I have for my friend Naya, just seeing her grieve. Her brother was stabbed in Finsby Park in 2019, I believe. and I knew him and I wanted to write something these thoughts these images just kept bombarding my mind and I just had to write something to let it out and it's just developed from 2020 onwards and I wanted to give it to someone else to do when I finished writing it and I got the feedback I needed and I got the commission I needed um I wanted to give it to someone else and the producer on it Stephanie Alexandra is also like a sister of mine she was just like hey you should direct because there's not a lot of women directing and the way you feel about this project you're the only one that could do it and I was like are you insane I've never been behind a camera I don't know what's what yes I've been doing this for 15 plus years but I don't know what's what so I immediately underestimated myself and I immediately felt like there was an imposter syndrome happening and she just kind of educated me she was like look you could surround yourself with people who are willing to help you I help you find that you know we'll put a team together and we'll help you so I did I went through the whole process of putting a team together, finding my cast.

40:57And every step of the way, it just felt like something was just trying to knock me off this path. Something was trying to tell me like, or force me to give up. And when I say everything, I mean every stage, whether it's the making of it, adults bickering on set, or things going wrong and you have to stay focused. Whether it's finishing the film and the editor's like, I don't want to do it anymore. Out of nowhere. You're just like, what? Can't do it anymore. Here's your hard drive back. You're like, what? You had my hard drive for a month. What is going on? Whether it's the VFX team being like, sorry, can't do it anymore.

41:51just just more so many different moments of obstacles and then making the film putting it together and then some of the producers that was just like hey we'll we'll teach you about post-production we'll stay with you then they were just like deuces good luck with this and then feeling like oh my god I've made a terrible movie I've done a terrible job so bad that they don't even want to tell me and they're just like hey we're out and you know I've made choices on my film I'm like hey this person is not the person to score it because they they didn't feel like they were passionate they didn't feel like they cared but picked someone else like didn't like the way you did that we're out just I'm so confused by what I'm meant to be doing as a director I'm meant to be picking people for the right for the job I kid you not everyone left except for my VFX supervisor Rhys I kid you not and I called him one day and I was like hey can I pay you some more to stay and he was like why would I want more money I was like because I don't know why everyone's leaving maybe it's because it's a short film and you know and he was just like I agreed to a payment and I'm gonna finish I'm gonna be a man of my word and help you and he stayed with me my editor stayed to my my composer but I really felt like I failed because I was like it doesn't make sense why everyone's just leaving did I make a bad film I surely probably did I remember making the film finishing the VFX and the film was like done and I literally was just like I'm so ashamed of what I've done and I'm not gonna put it out I'm just this was a bad experience and I literally felt like I failed I cried about it I grieved it I grieved the experience it felt like the worst introduction of being a director ever I was like why would anyone want to do this this is terrible and I don't know what kept pushing me but I was just like maybe I'll try a few film festivals see who accepts it acceptance one acceptance two acceptance three maybe i'll be brave enough to show my executive producers finally showed it to them my team at we presents and we transfer and then they will come into the screening and they'll look at me and be like this is a beautiful film and i'm like it is and they're like really well done this is your first film really well done and I'm like huh and I show it to my cast and I show it to some of the crew and they're like wow and then one acceptance after the next and then getting to BFI and being like oh wow you felt like a failure just like how you're ready to pack it in after the online bullying and every time you said no whether it's by forward movement of like submissions doing little things whether you that's like a little protest against the negative thoughts yeah every time you did that something greater was on the other side of that moment of quote-unquote failure so there's a pattern here life is not always going to be a great easy smooth experience there's going to be bumps in the road but on the other side of that something's awaiting you and you just don't know until you keep going and that was like a huge lesson this year so for you to even invite me onto this podcast and to ask me about what I felt like I learned from in terms of failures is so intricate to my experience this year especially with Highway to the Moon because I really felt like I did a I really felt like something was wrong and then I'm getting awards and it's getting accepted to the biggest festivals in the world and I just saw a failure turn into an extension of my talent and an extension of who I am and I'm excited about excited about directing again I found it so striking and so assured and just visually stunning and moving and all of those things.

46:39I also wanted to ask you about grief because it is a study of grief in so many ways and particularly the alienation around grief. And I'm so aware, and you've mentioned him, he's been a presence in this conversation, of the loss of Chadwick Boseman, who was like a brother to you. How much did making Highway to the Moon help you process that yeah loss it's such a great question because 2023 I picked the script back up to do a workshop with young boys in New York and in London and the time frame the timing um of when I needed to go to New York was on I believe like the like the the third year anniversary or or date of my brother's passing and I thought that was going to distract me because it always comes in like waves I was so wrong that week they were focusing on a loss that they had um and we split into groups I remember one day we split into groups and it was either the day before or the day of my brother's passing and we split into groups and we were talking about grief and I was trying to hold it together because it's you know young boys in front of me and I don't want to fall apart in front of them but I just saw some of some of these young men these young black men like crying and just processing grief um one of the actors is also in my film victor and i saw him processing the grief of his of his little cousin and then it came around to me and then i was just telling them like hey like though i'm here with you you know i feel like we're talking about people that we love we're talking about people that we've lost and I thought I could get away from it but now it's it's I have to share with you like this is really painful you know and it it's a different type of hurt it's a different type of pain so as the years go by it gets a little bit a little bit gentler on the heart but it attacks you in different ways I have a love-hate relationship with grief I know that it's meant to happen and when it does you have to let it happen but it's it attacks you in a way that that is indescribable really and yeah like I'm still I'm currently going through that now with my aunt who is passing and yeah i'm doing this play and it's about grief and it's about passing of of a matriarch and stuff like that so my auntie ann um i'm so sorry yeah so um i don't know i'm a little bit afraid that while someone stayed she might pass i don't know when she is but yeah we tried everything to keep her hair and look after her so but yeah like a new sense of purpose is happening whilst I'm grieving right now of yeah that young girl in Tottenham um taking over our auntie's camera.

50:29Leticia I'm so sorry for the grief you're going through and the grief you've experienced. And I want you to know that the stories you tell and the meaning you bring to the world are what keep everything alive. They're the stories that help us to see ourselves and to process our grief. It's the ultimate act of generosity. And it's the ultimate act of bringing meaning to that passing. And I'm so sorry for the pain. I really am. And I don't know why you've been chosen as this vessel yeah but you're doing amazingly thank you thank you i know the listeners will be proud of you and i can only imagine how proud your family are of you both your biological family and your brother chadwick yeah thank you thank you i want to end on like a happier note let's do it leticia okay so you remember when you said when you were going Going through anxiety and feeling like a failure after Top Boy, post that audition, you used to watch TV and cinema to help you escape.

51:39Yeah. What is your ultimate feel good piece of TV or movie to watch? The one that you watch again and again and will never get sick of? Oh my goodness. Everybody Akes Chris. But that is a great TV show. What about movies? But it'd have to be The Lovely Bones or Saoirse Ronan. The Lovely Bones is your feel good movie Oh feel good Damn it You said escape I mean yeah escape into grimness Okay Juno Juno's a great one The best film ever Oh so good Elliot Page has also been on this podcast Yep Yep Okay well that was a great note to end on You are completely magnificent Thank you And I'm so grateful That a legit Marvel superhero Has graced the How to Fail studio you're in a play called Not Your Superwoman I beg to differ, you are mine thank you so much for coming on How To Fail

52:36please do follow How To Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts please tell all your friends this is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast thank you so much for listening