Mel Giedroyc and AJ Odudu on Body Confidence, Midlife Reinvention and Female Friendship

0:00I never saw a black northern female on the telly. But I just feel it's, as a woman, I'm not going to stop. The fight never stops. It's radical having these kind of conversations and opening up things that previously held misplaced shame for whatever reason. This episode of How to Fail is supported by Dove Whole Body Deodorant because feeling fresh all over gives me the confidence I need. Today's episode is a little different I've got not one but two fabulous guests joining me I've got broadcaster, actor, author and comedian Mel Gedroych and presenting powerhouse AJ Adudu Come on Hello Come on Now, How to Fail has always been about truth-telling sharing our stories with transparency examining the moments we once labelled as failures and discovering what they've taught us But in this episode, we're exploring three themes that sit at the heart of both this podcast and Dove's mission.

1:02First, body confidence and what it really means to feel at home in our bodies. We'll talk about personal experiences, the pressure of unrealistic beauty standards, rarely spoken about bodily concerns, the confidence gap many women face and why aging visibly and unapologetically can be an act of power rather than something to resist. Secondly, we'll explore midlife reinvention. From divorce and dating to perimenopause, menopause and shifting identities, this is about the changes women navigate every day and how moments of upheaval can become unexpected beginnings. And finally, we'll talk about the transformative power of women supporting women, why friendship and mentorship will always take us further than competition ever could.

1:52Before we get into it, please welcome to the How to Fail studio, Mel Gedroych and AJ Doodoo.

2:02Welcome back, AJ. And so lovely to have you here, Mel. It's delightful. Is this a round table, guys? Is this what we're doing? Is this kind of like a round table? We are around a table. I've never done a round table. Literally a round table. It's a round table. I've never done a round table. I feel quite grown up, but in a good way. I'm delighted that this is the first How to Fail roundtable. So it's a day of firsts in so many ways. And I'm so happy that we're talking about these topics. Because so often on How to Fail, I regularly speak to women whose relationship with their body has changed and evolved over time.

2:39So can I start with you, Mel? What does the term body confidence mean to you? Okay, so I used to do this thing and I still do it, which is really stupid, which is if I'm putting on my makeup, I will often do it from quite a long way away. So the mirror where your fail picture is there, I'll be about here, which is... It's like two metres away. I know, I know. And I used to do it when I was a teenager because I had spots. Not like, you know, not kind of massive acne, but just the old, you know, spots. and I just couldn't bear the sight of my face. So I used to do this kind of far away makeup. It's stupid.

3:19Oh, Mel, that's heartbreaking. No, it's silly. But what you end up doing is just doing it really badly because you can't see yourself. Do you know what I mean? So you're doing your mascara and then you go out and you look and it's all clumpy and all over the place. So body confidence to me is literally getting closer to the mirror. I completely relate because just recently I'm 47 and my eyesight has really started playing up a little bit. Like one morning I can barely see my phone screen, the next morning I can spot an antelope in the fields beyond. But with my makeup, my mirror is slightly too far away, if I'm really honest with myself.

3:56But at the moment I'm feeling like I don't want to get closer because I sort of don't want to see all of the imperfections or all of the errors I'm making on my face. And I think that's such a brilliant definition, Mel. It's like getting closer to the mirrors, getting closer to you, getting closer to your reflection of your authentic self. And accepting it. And also, I think it's about really enjoying the bits of your body that you actually really like. I love my ankles. Always have done. Yeah, exactly. We're both checking them out now. And they are beautiful. I really love the ankles. Really nice.

4:33I just like them. And I like my left foot. The right foot needs work. I love my left foot. Why do you love your left foot particularly? Because it's good. It's a good one. This is like a Daniel Day-Lewis movie, isn't it? The remake starring Mel Gedroy. So I will put my left foot up to an elevated position. If I'm on the sofa, it will go up on a little table, whatever. And I have to do this on my own because people would literally think I was bonkers. But I'll put the left foot up and I'll just go, I like that yes and I like my ankles yeah thank you very much I think it's about focusing on the things you like as well and not trying not to fixate on the stuff because we've all got stuff that we don't like don't we yes have you ever had anyone sit in here and go I totally love everything about my body no if I were to have it would have probably been in the first season of How to Fail interviewing a straight white man but since then I think we've all got so much more acclimatized to sharing our infections and knowing that that's what makes us unique and it gives us this extraordinary power when we are vulnerable about the things that we often feel aren't as they should be actually that's what makes you uniquely you yeah aj can i come to you yeah what does body confidence mean for you and has it changed over time it absolutely has i feel like right now it just means appreciating my body and on the days that i'm not feeling 100 % you know some some days I actually do think wow you look unreal yes good but then some days I don't feel like that and those are the days where I have to really lean into appreciating this amazing body that is getting up and pushing me through um a day with many complexities within it and I'm being proud of that body and we don't worship ourselves and honour our bodies in the way that we should.

6:35Appreciating is a really good word, actually. And it's also, it's a ruddy privilege, isn't it? Absolutely. To have a body that, you know, touch wood, kind of works. For God's sake, people go through the hell and high water, don't they? Yeah. With challenges, all sorts, you know, to do with their bodies. So you're right, appreciate it. I think there's so much misplaced shame, particularly for women, around their bodies and their bodily functions. and you know I say unapologetically I'm a sweaty gal got sweatier during the perimenopause and I think there's a lot of misplaced shame particularly when it comes to odour and and staying fresh yeah so for women like us and a lot of our jobs are in the public eye or like today they're on camera how do you feel AJ on a shoot day for instance where you feel like that might be an issue what what kind of things do you do to make yourself feel confident I go through the basics, but the basics sometimes on days when you're not feeling your best self or you're not feeling confident are the things that you just have to get yourself through, aren't they?

7:40When, you know, there's lights that are extra hot. There's people that you've never met before. There's other people in the room that you really want to impress. I feel like all you can do is set yourself up for success. Yes. I let it all go. and I let it all go. Because our work, isn't it, is to do with being on show, isn't it? It's presenting yourself to other people. I kind of feel when I'm not at work, let it all go. And I like little hacks as well. So I do, I like a spray. Right. I like a dry shampoo. Great. I like a spray because I think it's quick. Yes. And I'm not, I'm very happy to talk about that and say, yes, I didn't wash this sleeping bag after the camping trip.

8:29I just gave it a bit of a spray. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I think that's fine. That'll be the episode title. A little spritz is all it needs sometimes. A spritz. Yes. A little all body spray. That's all you need. I actually think, taking today, today has been an inclement day. Yeah. It's been extremely wet. It's been pouring with rain and yet also extremely clammy on the tube to get here. What with the spray and then an air conditioned tube line, we're winning. Because I do think it's important. It's important that we feel comfortable even if our environment isn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

9:08But Mel, I'm so interested in your brilliant career because obviously you started out, met Sue Perkins at university, did footlights together. Did you ever think that you would be on screen? Was that one of your dreams? No, no. It's all our lives together. We're really good pals. We're really good pals. And that's first and foremost. And we were friends before we worked together for years. It's been, let's say, shambolic. And I don't want to sound disingenuous and go, oh, we don't know what we're doing. Of course, you know, we have ambition and we've loved everything that we've done. But we didn't really plan anything out.

9:47So we just started doing Edinburgh Festival, writing our own material. And we just thought we want to be stand up comedians, whatever. And then TV just sort of came, came slightly madly from left field. And in fact, I remember we had the same agent at the time and she phoned us and she said, girls, I want you to go and audition for this show. It's a daytime, lunchtime show. and we were just like, sorry, we're rock and roll stand-up comedians. We really, lovely, lovely though that sounds, but really I don't think it's quite us. We were quite sort of sniffy and she then said, you both owe me about five grand, which was true.

10:30So actually it would be good if you did go and try and get some work because we borrowed off her, parents, buddy, everyone. Things were not brilliant. So we just went along and just thought, oh, whatever. and then madly got this gig. I mean, it was different. You know, TV was very different then in the naughty 90s. It was much more kind of freewheeling, shall we say. But our first contract was for two weeks. Wow. Channel 4. That's the amount of faith they had in us. Two weeks. And then, yeah. Well, we did two years of that particular show. Loved that show. It was so fun. And it was live. It was live.

11:07I mean, you know this, AJ. There's nothing like... Oh, amazing. It's the best. I mean, it is sweaty pits. That is a swim moment. Anxiety-inducing scenario. But it's a beautiful sweat, though. It's an adrenalized sweat, isn't it? And the fact that it's disposable as well. So you've done it and you can't go back to it. There's no point really analyzing it because it's done. And I love that about doing live stuff. I don't know if you feel the same. I absolutely couldn't agree more. There's a forward Martian that comes with it. Yeah. And you just have to keep going. Yeah, whatever's going down. No matter what.

11:45And I love it. Did seeing yourselves on screen change how you felt about your bodies? AJ, can I come to you on that first? It definitely did make me analyse myself more, for sure. You know, I'd be confident about my appearance and what I look like and go out and do this show. and then you hear comments, you get public scrutiny. Everyone's all of a sudden got an opinion on your body, on your image, on what you're wearing, on how you sound, literally everything. And so to be honest, yeah, I do feel like it made me nitpick at myself a lot more. But over the years, I have trained myself to be kinder to myself.

12:33You know, I felt good in that moment. I was able to execute in that moment. And yeah, we look back at some things with a questionable, you know, manner. But at the time, I was happy. Yeah. I like execute. I like the word execute. I like execute as well. That was strong. That was it. Execute. Yeah. I love that. And so I think whatever makes you feel comfortable in that moment, that's brilliant. But yeah, I feel like... I never watch anything I do. What? Really? And that's the beauty of live. you can't watch yourself because you're in it and then it's gone you're in it and then it's gone but now there's watch back there's you know everything you can watch everything back but I love watching myself back I think it's good AJ do you?

13:15yeah I mean I probably I think it's bad do you learn do you find that you learn stuff I learn more you know all those moments which you think oh my gosh that was so awkward that awkward silence and then you watch it back and it was literally a split second so I think you catastrophize things sometimes in the moment and then you watch or listen to yourself back and you go, oh, it's fine. So I think it alleviates a lot of stress watching myself back. Additionally, genuinely, I just have never seen anyone like me on TV. I grew up looking into that window, into that world, and I never saw a black northern female on the telly.

13:58You know, I always want to see more representation, but even seeing myself there, I think, oh, my gosh, I'm so proud of little me being the representation that I wish I saw when I was younger. That's brilliant. There is that as well. So wonderful to hear and so empowering. And in a way, I think you're both coming at it from different angles, but you're talking about acceptance. Whether you're looking at yourself on screen and nitpicking, but understanding that you had the power to execute, that's a journey of acceptance. And whether, Mel, you choose not to look back because you know who you are and you inhabit your body.

14:38Oh, I like that. I've never thought of it like that. I think both elements are really powerful. But talking of the old sweaty pits on live TV and the fear of any kind of odour, although I'm sure your odour, both of you, is absolutely delicious. That is why it is brilliant that Dove have got this whole body deodorant which can help women feel confident. And I'm so grateful to Dove for opening up this conversation. It's not actually a conversation I've ever had before. No, I haven't. Which is wild. It's wild, yeah. When you think that it affects every single person on the planet. Yes. I, when you say whole body, it literally is.

15:17Yes. Whole body. Wowzers. And you're in luck, Mel. It comes in a spray. I like to do that thing. For me, it smacks a little bit of the 1950s, but spraying an area and then walking through it. Yes. Cheek. That's so chic. Is it 50s? Is that a 50s phenomenon? I don't know when it originated, but I really, I do like it. I like it a lot. I think however you want to apply it to your body to get the pheromones going, do it. Yes. You know? Yeah. But then we're walking into it, spraying it on directly. though yeah and are we talking on body or on clothes or any way we're talking on body so if for instance like me i get a very needs to touch the skin yes contact needs to be made okay around your house but if like me you get a sweaty lower back sorry if that's gmi you can just you can spray that.

16:15Yeah. Downstairsies as well? Yes. Dove have a cream that's perfect for intimate areas. A cream? Now we're talking. Why not? Yes, I believe so. I mean, I've never done that. Again, we're talking about body, not house.

16:30I've never, no, but I've never gone there. Oh, I need some coffee. Yes, I'm excited for you. This is another stage in our collective journey. This podcast is all about speaking the truth, honest, transparent storytelling and embracing our perceived failures to discover what we've learned from them. Every week, I'm lucky enough to speak with some of the most impressive and inspiring people from around the world. But while those conversations are always a joy, they do sometimes take me out of my comfort zone. and when I'm feeling the pressure there's always the risk of getting a bit hot and bothered before my esteemed guest arrives which is why I'm so pleased to have Dove Whole Body helping me feel calm and confident.

17:18Dove Whole Body Deodorant delivers all day odour protection and is designed to be used beyond underarms on areas such as the chest, back, thighs and feet helping you feel fresh from head to toe. It even comes with added skincare, so it's suitable for my sensitive skin. To help reach those trickier spots, Dove Whole Body Deodorant comes in a spray, in a stick, and in a cream format with three fragrances to choose from, including raspberry and rose, lavender and chamomile, and sea mist and peony, my personal favourite. Go about your day with confidence with Dove Whole Body Deodorant, available at major retailers in-store and online.

18:05Let's move on to midlife reinvention. Now, I hate the label midlife because in the 50s, it had such a different connotation where it felt like once you were 40, you were just sort of exit stage left. that was it. But actually, I think we should rebrand it because midlife, all of the most interesting, the hottest women I know are all in midlife. Okay. And I think the idea of midlife being a phase of evolution and reinvention is a really interesting and powerful one. And for me, hitting my midlife was a big one because my 30s were a decade of such intense transition. I got married to the wrong person.

18:45I got divorced from that person. I tried and failed to have babies. I came to terms in my early 40s with the fact that I wasn't going to be a mother in the conventional biological sense. And all of that definitely had an impact on how I saw myself. But on the other side of it, I feel so much stronger for having got through it. And I think when stuff like that happens and you're forced to strip away your old certainties or your idea of what your life was going to be. One of the things that occurs is that you come face to face with your authentic self and it's about whether you are going to embody that self or not.

19:25And for me, I feel very grateful that I have this chance to live this life on this side of midlife. Wow. Does the idea of midlife reinvention speak to you, Mel? yes I'm I'm curious what do you think when do you think midlife is actually great question because I feel bad putting AJ in this bracket no I I actually when is it because you're 38 aren't you yeah I'm 38 and actually it could be at any time because I think you can reinvent yourself at any time yeah like it doesn't you don't need to wait until you're 40 or 50 yeah in order to pivot or experience things you know life will throw things at you yeah at any time there's there's no real age on that and i'm so moved by what you've just said actually because i think it's gosh you should be so proud of yourself that you have come face to face with your authentic self and you like your authentic self and you should be proud of your yourself and able to inspire so many other people at the same time thank you wonderful yeah can i just say how gorgeous it is sitting around this table with two amazing women who support women so deeply and also two brilliant interviewers who constantly are asking each other questions and throwing it back to me it's like so lovely it's a really rare quality and like thank you that means a lot to me coming from you so thank you i would say midlife it probably for me in my head it's like 40 to 55 yeah what about you so i'm through midlife then guys how are you you're in your crone era i can't wait i'm i can't i'm pure crone guys turned 58 the other day wow it's not about this but you look amazing stop it gang you could be 38 it's kind light it's kind light in here smoke and mirrors look i feel really lucky i feel really blooming lucky i've lost a lot of pals in the last five years and family members this is what happens when you turn 50 so be warned you know i mean obviously we're losing people all the time but when you hit 50 it's like freaking dominoes you know so just to be here I feel is such a privilege and to sort of feel I'm working which is I just feel tremendously lucky about but I feel it's my duty to keep fighting yes and I don't mean that just in in terms of a sort of you know stiff upper lip you know pretend but I just feel it's as a woman I'm not going to stop not going to stop the fight never stops good you You shouldn't become invisible.

22:17No. Although I quite like being invisible. I've got to know. I don't want you to disappear. You have to be out there. I quite like being invisible. I think it's a power. That's interesting. Say more about that. Because people underestimate you. And then you can... So back in the day when Sue and I were on TV like a lot, we did, we got a lot of attention. And that's very nice. And it's very, you know, the old ego gets a bit, you know, which is a worry. You have to keep that in check. But that's kind of, you know, that's shifted and that's all good. And it's just quite nice. I think it makes you observe other people more.

22:57It's not all about you. It's not all about, you know, what am I doing? And I quite like that. I think that's good. But I don't think that's you being invisible. I think that's you taking time, acknowledging, reading the room more potentially. Being less selfish. Say it, being less of a narcissist Just say it Being wise Being more wise, exactly But also slowing down A bit, but not slowing down as in Oh, I'm not going to work, I'm not going to do the stuff that I used to do Because that ain't going to happen Touch wood You know, you say all these things You never know what's around the corner, of course But just It's a word you used before as well Just appreciating things more Yeah I think, and actually allowing yourself to enjoy the moment more rather than rushing on to the next one.

23:49Does that make any sense at all? It makes total sense. And I actually interviewed, about to name drop, Dame Emma Thompson recently, Clang, at the Hay Literary Festival. And she was wonderful. She's 66 now. Unbelievable. She looks incredible. She looks incredible. I love the way she's got that wing hair. She looks incredible. And she said something very similar about slowing down, not in the sense, as you say, of going down several gears, but having the space to get deeper with the things that are truly meaningful to you. And the way that she said it, I was like, God, I really needed to hear that.

24:24Because I feel I'm still in the frenetic building stage of my life where I'm so blessed that lots of opportunities are coming and I want to pursue them all. And there's probably a freelance mindset there. If I say no, it's going to go away. And so I need to make the most of it. And it's amazing. And also a lot. I'm aware it's a lot but I want to put in the effort now so that ultimately hopefully I will have space to get slower and deeper and wiser and more considered What about you AJ and reinvention? Do you have a moment or a series of moments that you can look back on and think oh yeah that was pivotal for me?

25:07Yeah, when I moved to London at the age of 21 fresh from uni, just full of hope, ambition nothing bad had happened so it was great you know you throw yourself into opportunities in a way that is so carefree and liberating you just go for it you don't care you know where you're sleeping where you're eating you're just you're gonna figure everything out and I really you know love that sensibility but you know I feel like when I face my first big griefs I guess back in 2013 I lost a job that I adored I caught a partner cheating on me it was all so bad that's like the worst thing that had ever happened to me at that time I felt like that was a real pivotal moment for me to move forward because actually at that time I was asking myself all of the wrong questions in hindsight you know what did I do wrong what's wrong with me why wasn't I worthy for this love why am I not good enough for this role and actually I think the question should have been what do I do now how do I move forward what should I do next and I figured that out over time but that was a real moment of reinvention that I didn't even realize that I was reinventing and rebuilding myself at that time yes and sometimes it's not what you did wrong or you being the wrong person it's them being the wrong person for you or that being the wrong system for you or a job never having encountered someone who offers your skill set and so doesn't know what to do with you and everything you're so right is data acquisition if if we allow it to be that makes it sound very clinical I like it yes everything is data acquisition about the thing that went wrong that you can do better next time or make different choices next time yeah yeah and I think everyone feels that like it doesn't have to be in a you know a tv career it can be in any job any stage of life, any relationship, anything that is just not going according to the timeline that we think it should be.

27:32But were you aware at the time that that was happening, that that's what you were doing? Or is that just with hindsight saying, oh, I did a bit of reinvention then? Or were you saying to yourself, I'm going to reinvent myself? No, I think it's all in hindsight. This is what I've learned from brutal experiences. but I think at the time I was just scrambling getting through it I was like oh gosh it was I felt very heavy very weighted very much like oh my gosh everything everything is a chore and that's why I do even reference you know I think we trivialize you know brushing our teeth and doing our hair and having a shower and putting on our deodorant and showing up and doing the thing we trivialize those things but actually when you're in those dark places it's vital just getting ready is a big thing yes big source of confidence and i don't think it should be underestimated at all so well put those daily rituals that routine that you can find yourself in again yeah that gives you that baseline of confidence even if you don't get out of bed feeling that I think it's so important yeah absolutely it's key isn't it Mel should we talk about menopause shall we shall we okay yes so I now I think I'm technically perimenopausal but I might be menopausal who knows who bloody knows

29:03tell me tell me about it's quite odd isn't it yeah I mean AJ this is your you're a long you're a long way off. I've got it to come though. You're a long way off don't you? As all women do so it's good to learn. But what's brilliant though now is that actually people are talking about it. I'm so grateful to the women who've opened up the conversation. Mariella Frostrup. Davina McCall. Davina. Thank you. Do you know what I mean? It's so cool you know and the fact that men are talking about it as well. You know you turn on the radio there's somebody usually talking about menopause and I just think yay really good um it's pretty mad I would I would say also quite long yes that's the thing isn't it because you're in the peri phase for yeah years like 10 years I mean can be it's one of those esoteric thing that we just don't know I realized that I was definitely in the first flush literally of perimenopause when I was getting hot flushes at the rate of sort of three every hour.

30:03Oh, because I never had that. Oh, my gosh. That's so full on. Was it literally like you wanted to rip your clothes off vibes? Yes. Yeah. And I remember it's actually when I first started this podcast being recorded visually. And so I would have to come into the studio with a mini fan. Oh, my gosh. And I'd have this intense sweat and clamminess. And I'd have to be really careful about what I wore. I'd have to have like a little cotton vest on underneath the shirt. And then it would disappear almost as quickly as it arrived. But it was so intense when it happened. But I think this often happens with women.

30:40I kind of diminished it as a thing. I was like, it's fine. It's just one of those things. We get through it. We get through it. Yeah. And eventually I was like, it's actually a bit annoying now. And I'm going to make a booking to go and see my gynecologist, which I then did. and she said in my experience women who've undergone fertility treatment tend to minimize their symptoms because they are so used to hormones making them feel dreadful and I had been through a lot of fertility treatment and so I just thought well that's kind of normal isn't it it's how we feel yeah she said do you have any other symptoms apart from the hot flushes I said no I'm absolutely fine she's like what about blurred vision I was like oh yeah I woke up yesterday and I couldn't read my emails she's like that's a symptom because there's a sort of dryness in your eyes and um and then just all over dryness i was like i've never had any complaints love and she's like well i'll be the judge of that she gave me a vaginal exam she said urethra is dangerously exposed really so like then and there she gave me hrt and for me the bioidentical hormones have been a lifesaver so i've got estrogen gel i've been fitted with a coil and within three days I'd never I never had a hot flush again so now that's been two years so now because the symptoms have kind of gone like I definitely feel hormonal surges still yeah yeah but I'm am I now menopausal who knows I think you're in menopause when you haven't had a period for over a year yes is that right it is right but I'm fitted with a coil so you don't get them anyway so now I don't know oh I see oh do you not get them I'm really bad on all this because my And mum, God rest her soul, incredible mum, never talked about that.

32:20Ditto. I mean, nothing. Well, that's it. Nothing. But that's like a conversation. So I don't really know. I don't really know. I didn't even know that about the coil. You're probably pre-menopausal. Who knows? Yeah. Playing age 39. I didn't know until I was fitted with a coil, to be fair. That's the thing. That's what's so amazing about these conversations. I actually feel sorry for all of the women, you know, before us. my my oh mother included you know when i speak to my friends about oh my gosh like we just thought our mums were being like super moody and it's like they were they were going through a big hormonal shift yeah and because no one spoke about it because you know they suppress those feelings as oh this is just what we have to go through they're not getting supported in the way that they should not even from their own children sometimes you know it's kind of like oh my gosh we just palm them off as people who are just you know being fussy oh my gosh what do you mean it's too hot in the room it's freezing and all of that yeah and actually i love these conversations because i feel like actually we we can better support one another yeah for sure exactly that it's radical having these kind of conversations and opening up things that previously held misplaced shame for whatever reason is such a radical and generous act so I'm so grateful to you two one of the things that a friend of mine when she was going through menopause she had an amazing NHS nurse called Kate and Kate said to her you need to stop doing anything you don't want to do and my friend was like well that's I don't know if I can actually introduce that into my life because I'm the mother of two kids and there's various things I have to do and I've got obligations and I've got a job.

34:07But the mindset shift was very interesting for her because I think, again, many of us feel that we need to please others. And my friend just stopped doing as much of that. And as a result, she felt so much better. And I do think that these big life shifts, whether it's menopause or whether it's what you went through, AJ, when you first moved to London, they do offer us this chance to let go of the things that no longer serve us and reinvent ourselves and our future. I like that. I think saying no to stuff is a really empowering thing. There's me like, God, you know, I've got so many offers. No offers at all.

34:48But actually not overdoing it and really just being clear about what you want. It sounds really obvious, but I think I used to just like say yes to everything. Yeah. Because you feel you have to or that it'll all be taken away or whatever. But maybe that's the thing about getting into crone, crone territory, saying no. Well, yeah. And you're confident. You become more confident in yourself to say no to certain things and be confident that you'll be fine. You know, something else will come. Yes. And it'll be better suited. We come from a place of abundance. Yes. Yeah. By the way, I did mean crone as a compliment.

35:31No, I love Crone. Yes, it's great, isn't it? I love Crone. Bring, I'm totally, I'm owning. Own the Crone. Own the Crone. Own the Crone. There's a podcast idea right there. Okay, let's move on to our final theme, which is the one that has been encompassing everything that we've been talking about, women supporting women. Now, I started my podcast production company, Daylight, because I specifically felt that there was a gap in the top of the podcast charts, which were dominated by white middle class men talking to each other about each other. And I wanted to create a space that elevated diverse and female voices.