Michelle Yeoh - On typecasting, fertility and THAT Oscars speech

0:00When you're down, you learn, you become resilient, you become stronger and you learn from mistakes. don't wallow in them. I held my arms out like that. Luckily, I had a big gown on. And I'm like, oh my God, I was sweating. It was just dripping because I was so scared. Yes. Hello and welcome to How To Fail. This is the podcast that believes that failure shows us who we truly are and what we're really made of. Before we get started on this conversation, please do remember to subscribe and follow so that you never miss a single episode.

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1:44Meet the computer you can talk to. With Copilot on Windows, working, creating, and collaborating is as easy as talking. Got writer's block? Share your screen with Copilot Vision to help spark inspiration and use Copilot Voice to have a conversation and brainstorm ideas. Or maybe you need some tech help. With Copilot Vision, Copilot sees what you see. Let Copilot talk you through step-by-step guidance so you can master new apps, games, and skills faster. Try now at windows.com slash Copilot. Michelle Yeoh has created a legendary body of work that defies easy categorization. From cult classic kung fu cinema to blockbuster Bond flicks and Oscar-winning sci-fi leads.

2:27In fact, it was her turn as a harassed laundry owner in 2023's Everything Everywhere All at Once that made her the first Asian woman to be given the Academy Award for Best Actress. At the time, Yeo said in a moving acceptance speech that, For all the little boys and girls who look like me watching tonight, this is a beacon of hope and possibilities. Her story began 63 years ago in Malaysia, where she was born surrounded by mountains and nature. Her first love was ballet, which she learned from the age of four, before going to England to attend dance school in Chester at the age of 15. A spinal injury put paid to her dreams of turning professional.

3:13But back home, her mother entered Yo into the Miss Malaysia competition, which she won. From there, she made the leap into action movies, literally. With her impressive physical prowess, Yo performed her own stunts opposite the legendary Jackie Chan, including landing an aerial motorcycle jump onto the top of a speeding train in 1992's Supercop. She was cast as a Bond girl in Tomorrow Never Dies, then starred in the global box office hit Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. For many of us, Yeo will also be best known for her performances as Eleanor, the chilling future mother-in-law in Crazy Rich Asians, and as Madame Morrible in the Wicked films.

3:57This month sees her returning to the role in Wicked for good. In her seventh decade then, Yeo is as busy and in demand as ever. Her continuing and well-deserved success recalls something else she once remarked. remarked. With every turn, with every twist and with every role, I simply said, why not? I will commit totally. I will do my best. I will be brave and unafraid of failure. Michelle Yeo, welcome to How to Fail. Thank you for having me and what a title, How to Fail. Normally people go for how to be the most successful, the most rich and this and that. And it's like, how to fail? Were you surprised when you got the request to come up with you?

4:48Yes, I was like, is there really a program called How to Fail? But actually, it's so important because you really have to be brave and not afraid to fail because otherwise you live through life doing nothing. Exactly. Well, failure helps you grow because otherwise you never take the risk. And I am so honoured to be sitting opposite you. I really am. Having followed your career as a fan, having watched your Oscars acceptance speech and cried with your words, and also having followed some of the things that you've said about failure over the course of your life, it feels magical to be in your presence.

5:26So thank you, thank you, thank you for being here. How is it being back in the world of Wicked? Is it as much fun to film as it looks to us as viewers? Oh, yes. Is it? Oh my God, yes. And actually, Wicked, while we were filming Wicked, it gave me a solid foundation of love and serenity because that was the time when we were campaigning for the Oscars with everything everywhere all at once. So I was flying between New York and L.A. and London, back and forth, back and forth for all. And it is, it is a huge thing to believe in your movie and support each other with my cast members, you know. And then when I came back, it was just like straight into the loving arms of Cynthia and Ariana and Jeff and Jonathan.

6:18And you go like, oh, I'm okay. Yeah. I'm back here. I'm with my family, my wicked, wicked family. And even though I was the wicked Madame Morrible, they still loved me. I was going to ask you that, actually, because you're so good at playing mean. You're so good at playing mean. And now having met you, even within five minutes, you seem like the most beautiful, lovely person. And when you're playing mean with people who are your friends in real life. Oh, it's fun. It's fun. It's so much more fun because, you know, you get to do all these crazy things. But I do say to, I do ask John, I'm like, why do you think Michelle Yeoh when you think someone mean?

6:58And, you know, I remember when we were doing Crazy Rich Asians where I played Eleanor, the mother, right? And he said, your eyes turn black when you said to her, you'll never be enough. I'm like, John, seriously? And of course, he calls me horrible. You see? You think I'm horrible? He's like my adopted son. I love him to death. So that was an incredible journey. And there was also humor in it. I think that was what I truly loved about John's focus on each character, had their moment of emotional depth. But at the same time, there was always a little bit of fun and humor. And it comes across, you know.

7:41So going on that set is just, there's always singing and dancing. I was about to ask you about the singing. because you were very reticent at first to say yes, weren't you? Because you knew you'd have to sing. Yes, I called John and said, hello, this is a musical, right? And you know I don't sing, right? And the next thing I knew, he sent a video of, he says, I have two special friends who wanted to say hello to you and they want you to, well, listen to them. So it was Ariana and Cynthia and we had not met before at that point. And they said, Michelle, it's imperative that you come and join us now.

8:19I mean, how do you say no to Ariana and Cynthia? Exactly. But I must say, my first singing experience was really supported and encouraged by Cynthia. She really, really helped me out there. Because, you know, when you hear them, they're like angels. and so then when we were doing our song together the wizard and I and thanks to her I'm actually on billboard 100 because Cynthia's song got on there and I did a little intro with her right and so when we were singing it and the girls always sing life even though Cynthia is like how many feet in the air and doing somersaults she is singing life Wow.

9:07She's amazing. And I remember when I start the song, I literally just squeaked it. Because, you know, we had recorded it and just to give you a sense of comfort. And Cynthia came up to me and she held my hand and she looked at me and she said, I know you can do this. You know, I've heard you sing. So please sing. so you know I listen to her we're so grateful to her and to you oh yes I'm grateful to her I wonder if we could talk about your mother oh my god that's a real character there I mean she is the real diva here I mentioned in the introduction because you had this experience very early on of failure actually when you were 17 and you thought you were going to be a ballerina but you had an injury and it was your mother who entered you to Miss Malaysia and sort of changed the course of your career.

10:08How important has your mother been to you? Well, she's a force, you know, full stop. I mean, she is very dynamic. She's 84 now, but if you saw a photograph of her, you'd think she was like in her early 70s. And she's always glamorous, always dressed up. And she would look at me like, are you going out like that? Oh, my God, I'm going to the gym, mom, you know, seriously. And she's always been like this, just reminding you to look your best, be at your best and all that. And sometimes I think it's good to have that. But sometimes it also makes you, I was a people pleaser. You know, I was afraid to do things or say things that might sound wrong or sound right.

10:56And it undermines your, you would think that it would make you more confident, but actually it undermines it a bit. Because every time you go like, oh, I don't look right. I, you know, for fear of sounding not smart enough or something like this. But I also feel that, you know, with Asian parents, especially moms, they try to have their children be seen and not heard. and we were always, you know, the girls should behave like girls, like, you know, not make loud noises and things like that. So my mom instilled that in us and it took me a while to go to her and say, actually, it's not true. You know, we can't speak our minds and we don't always have to agree with what everybody else is saying.

11:44And it is important that I believe in myself in that way rather than just say yes, because, you know, that doesn't rock the boat. I think she would have made the perfect diva. She would have made the, she sings beautifully. She would have been a great actress. When did you find your own voice and the courage to say that to your mother? How old were you? Oh, I was, I think at that time, I think I was getting my divorce. Okay. Yes. Because, you know, she's very traditional. not. And she was going like, no, no, no, you should just listen to your husband. And I'm like, no. I'm like, okay, if you love him so much, why don't you marry him?

12:28This is your first husband. And we'll perhaps get onto it a little bit as it pertains to some of your failures. But one of the reasons I was so looking forward to meeting you today is because we have a story in common. I also got divorced and I also tried and failed to have children. children. Ah, then we have something a lot in common in that way. And I feel so grateful to you for talking about that particular story, because you can only understand it if you've been through it. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And my mom didn't understand that at that point. So, you know, so it did. And I think it's something that you, first of all, you have to be brave enough to accept and not feel like a failure.

13:12And at that point in my life, I did feel like that. I did feel like, you know, I'm supposed just to do one thing women, all women are capable of. Why am I not? Why have I been singled out to? Did I do something wrong? And, you know, we we and that's the thing is like mom put the fear of karma into you. You must have done something wrong. You didn't do this right. So that's why you're paying for this in that way and this way. And you go like, no, stop, because I don't believe that. And if I did something wrong in my past life, I hope I paid for it then. Right. And so but we do believe that, you know, good will pay forward with good.

13:51So at that point, I did feel like a failure of a woman. You know, there's like one of the most natural things for women to be able to do. And I think when you come to accept the fact that it's not your failure, you know, we all have different physicalities. some, but some are very, very different indeed. And it shouldn't be a feeling of loss in that way. So finding yourself and believing that, you know, you can move forwards because nowadays, I was very lucky. My sister-in-law said, he'll have one of my children. And I'm like, okay, guys, stay back. And then my best girlfriends, they were like, so now I have six God children, You know, at that point, they were all sharing their children with me.

14:40And I think from there, I learned love in another form. Right. It's like, how did you cope with yours? Well, so beautifully put. I think I've realized that you can feel sadness and be at peace with that sadness. And that the sadness is part of life, that actually it's taught me so much. And my life is so fulfilled in so many ways. And I decided to start concentrating on the love that I did have rather than the love that I didn't or that I thought I wanted and yearned for. So I've got married again, like you. He has three children. I have lots of godchildren. I have nieces and a nephew. So there are so many children in my life.

15:22Right. And in this lifetime, I believe that part of my purpose is not to have children in the biological sense, but to mother in other ways. Right. Yes. Yes, I believe that. I think you open your hearts in another way. I think when you are just a mother to your own child, it becomes a very sort of overprotective, empowering, almost selfish kind of love that you share with only one. Maybe it was a good lesson in the sense that now I share that one love with so many others and we now have a grandson. Yeah. What's that like, being a sort of step-grandmother? I don't see it because I get on very well with my stepson.

16:05I actually call him my boyfriend. Do you? He goes around introducing, oh, that's my dad's wife and my girlfriend. That's amazing. You just say girlfriend? This is a whole other podcast. So we get on very, very well together. And I'm very blessed to have that kind of relationship. I think the most important thing is... What I feel is like he sees that I love his dad and, you know, for who he is and what he is. And it's vice versa. We're both very independently independent. We're both successful in our own ways. And so, you know, and there's no, I think sometimes in a relationship, there shouldn't be any rivalry.

16:51You know, who's better than who or, you know, why are you more successful or, you know, better known, blah, blah, blah. So in that way, we're all very comfortable in who we are because we all have had failures, you know, and learn to live with it. I truly believe ups and downs is like a heartbeat. You can't just have one way, right? That would be a flat line. Yes, you wouldn't be alive. Exactly. That's such a great metaphor. Yeah. So, you know, it's important to, you know, when you're down, you learn, you become resilient, you become stronger and you learn from mistakes. don't wallow in them, you know, move forward.

17:30I believe in always moving forwards because if you stay still, you're just stagnant and you're just waiting for the inevitable.

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19:29Wrapping gifts is the only sport you need to stay fit this season. Tis the season to discover great gifts at unexpectedly low prices. Sierra, let's get moving. Well, talking of moving forwards, let us move forwards to your failures. Your first failure, what I appreciate about them, they were just very straightforward, no context, and I can't wait to find out more. Because the first failure is stage fright. How did you discover that you had stage fright? Oh, very easily. Every time I have to go on stage to make... Okay, I loved dancing. So if I had to perform on stage, it's not a problem. It's speaking on stage.

20:11And it is something, unfortunately, I have not overcome. So that's why I still see it as a failure. It's like now, it's a little bit of a stage fright for fear of not coming across as being a little bit intelligent or funny or something like that, you know, not saying the right things. So rather than, okay, I'd rather and not say anything and be like a wallflower. Well, let me reassure you that you're coming across exceptionally. But I'm aware that you're speaking in a second language. So do you still have stage fright in your native language? Hell yes. Right. It's just about being on the stage and suddenly I remember, I think it came out very clearly when I received my Golden Globes.

20:55Are you allowed to swear? Yes, I welcome swearing. I love swearing. Golden Gloves was the first big nomination for me personally as an actress by your peers, right? Just to get the nomination, you were so blown away. And you think, I mean, at that point, we all just went, just to be nominated, I'm already over the moon, right? And you don't have expectations, even though you pray quietly. And then you think, oh, shoot, if they really actually call my name, what the hell, man? I'll be so scared to go up on stage. So when they did call my name, I walked up on stage and suddenly everything goes zing.

21:39I forget my name. I don't know what I'm there for. And the first word that came out of my mouth was, shit. And then I realized everybody went, oh, like that. And then I turned around and I go, oh my God, you're not supposed to say that. And I turned back around and said, fuck.

22:00So that was my big intro and how I realized you still have stage fright. And then it's constant because even when I go on press tours and things like that, when you have to go on stage and when they say, say a few things, say something like that. I would agonize. Like the night before, I won't be able to sleep. Just because I know I have to go on stage. So you prep yourself. You keep prepping yourself, prepping yourself to make sure just to say that one or two sentences without... My heart goes... And one time it was hysterical. I held my arms out like that. Luckily, I had a big gown on. And I'm like, oh my God, I was sweating.

22:49It was just dripping because I was so scared. How did you cope with the Oscars then? Not well. You saw. It was so beautiful, though. I love that speech. It was me. I would never have known. I think it's because it came from here. It really did. From your heart. Because, first of all, of course, Asians would come up and say, you've got to win this for us. You've got to win. And then you're standing there going, I will try my very best. I don't know how I got her, but, you know, I hope. And it really resonated to me how much it meant, not just in America, but globally to Asians. I know. It's so beautiful, Michelle.

23:39Because it's also the role you played was so special in that respect as well for so many reasons. Yeah. It's so rare that a woman of a certain age, Evelyn, who owns a laundromat, who is a Chinese-American immigrant, gets to be a lead. Exactly. Yeah. Right. I mean, when we, that's true. I mean, she is, if you go into Chinatown in any of the major cities, they're there everywhere. They're not seen. They're not heard. They're not actually given any attention. You know, they're almost like voiceless. And at that time when they had the China hate thing, it was like, this is wrong. How do you, you know, just do that to another fellow human being?

24:28So it was very interesting. And I think what it was very important at that time was like, these immigrants have been in America forever. Right? That's what America is made of, immigrants. Yes, that's how it is. And to be able to tell a story that is about not just a period piece, not like Crouching Tiger, not like Shogun, not like something like that, where it's about the periods past, gone long past. But today, they're so relevant to all of us to be included, to be seen, to be embraced for our differences. And that was indeed very, very special. And I remember when the Daniels, when they wrote the script, she was called Michelle Wang.

25:20And the first thing I said to them, no, you do not call her Michelle. because Evelyn, she is her own person. And she deserves to be seen and heard as who she is. Because every time you say Michelle, you would think of, oh, is Michelle Yeoh trying to do this as another person? And I always believe that that is how we should take that approach, is that we have to be honest. We have to be brave enough to say, well, you know, some people might not like it or appreciate it, but guess what? It's a reality, it's a fact, and we should see it. If you don't see it, you will never understand it. So, so powerful.

26:00I'm very, very... No, I felt it too. And it's so moving hearing you speak about it. I wonder if I could take you back to growing up in Malaysia, surrounded by this beautiful nature. Did you always feel, did you have an instinct that your life was going to be meaningful in some way? Hmm. I always felt loved. I always felt happy. Malaysia is a very beautiful country in the sense that it is very multiracial. So to be honest, when I was growing up, we grew up with Chinese, with the Malays, with the Indians, with the expats. So we embraced our different cultures. We celebrated all our different cultures.

26:47So when I was growing up, I never thought that one day I would be on the silver screen. My mother is, my mother again, she was a big factor in why I love movies so much. Because as a child, we would go to all kinds of movies, like Indian movies, Malay movies, Chinese movies, in all the different languages. Horror stories, like I grew up with Dracula, okay? I think she traumatized me. But so and as I was watching the screen, I never thought one day that's what I want to do. I want to be able to do that. It never crossed my mind. I was very single minded in the fact that I wanted to do ballet. I wanted to be in the world of dance.

27:32I wanted to have my own school. I would go back to Malaysia. I come from Ipoh, this very small mining city and start my own, have my own school. So that was my dream at that point. You know, I'm a small town girl. But my dad, he made us think wider. He made us think beyond the borders. He made us believe that, you know, the most important thing is education in his mind. But he never limited us to say he's a lawyer by profession, that you have to be a, I think a lot of, especially for Chinese Asian families, you have to be a lawyer, a doctor, an engineer, you know, an academic, something that is stable.