Nicole Scherzinger - ‘I’ve never felt I’m enough’

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0:37Hello and welcome to How to Fail with me, Elizabeth Day. This podcast puts failure in the spotlight and asks us what we learn from the moments in life that don't go according to plan. Because I firmly believe that most failure can teach us something if we let it. Every week I talk to a new guest about the times they failed and how their perspective on life and what success really means was shaped along the way. And please do join me after this episode on Failing with Friends. my subscriber series where I tackle your failures and questions. This week, I'm flying solo and I'll be looking at your failures around a lack of traveling and a reality TV obsession.

1:20Now, is that really a failure? You need to tune in to find out. And I would love to hear from you. If you'd like to get in touch, follow the link in the podcast notes. Get Failing With Friends episodes every week and all episodes of How to Fail ad-free. Just visit the How to Fail show page on Apple Podcasts and click Start Free at the top of the page to begin your free trial. Just before we get started, I wanted to flag that I am on tour and I am doing a very special date in the London Palladium on the 21st of March. My interviewer is going to be podcast royalty and vegan sweet king Jamie Lang.

2:02It's going to be so much fun. I always have the best time when I talk to him. There's a scattering of tickets still available. And if you'd like to book, just go online to www.fane.co.uk forward slash Elizabeth hyphen day. And I hope very much to see you there. My guest today is a modern day icon, a woman whose performances have earned her acclaim and celebrity, and whose own tastes have done much to shape popular culture. Her recent star turn in the West End revival of Andrew Lloyd Webber's Sunset Boulevard garnered rave reviews and an Evening Standard Theatre Award for Best Musical Performance.

2:44Born Nicole Valiente in Honolulu, of Filipino, Hawaiian and Ukrainian descent, her father left when she was two years old, and she later took the surname of her stepfather, Scherzinger. At 14, Nicole Scherzinger was cast in her first professional play and later won a scholarship to major in theatre arts. But it was music that would make her famous. As the lead singer of the Pussycat Dolls, she was instrumental in that group selling over 55 million records worldwide. In latter years, her stints as a reality TV judge on both The X Factor in the UK and the masked singer in the States had brought her a whole new audience, but her true love remains the stage.

3:28Accepting her recent award for her portrayal of fading star Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard, Scherzinger said the part had come at the exact right time, adding, I now realise, looking back, that everything that's happened in my life and all the pain and all the struggle and all the confusion and all the emptiness and all the loneliness and all the fight was for a reason. I feel like I'm back where I was born to be. Nicole Scherzinger, welcome to How to Fail. What a quote. What a quote. It is exactly what this podcast is about. That idea that all of your struggles have led you where you were born to be, which is back on stage as Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard.

4:14How are you? Let's start there. I am good. I'm tired and exhausted, but at the same time, I'm fulfilled. And I'm happy because I feel like I'm finally living my full potential and I'm in my purpose. How about that? Good morning, everyone. And that idea of vulnerability, because I imagine you really have to, you have to empty your soul every night on stage in this particular role. And as an artist, I think performance must be quite a tricky thing to get right sometimes because you need to have what Beyonce would call her Sasha Fierce, her onstage persona, but you also need to tap into something deep within you that is raw emotion.

5:05How are you managing to balance that with this role of Norma Desmond? No ego and stripping everything back. And as Jamie would say, Jamie's the director. Jamie Lloyd would say being brave and then being braver. I've had to take away all vanity, all ego, all of my fears and to actually strip that away, but also to embrace them, all of those fears and all those insecurities, and to just bring them all to the work. It is quite cathartic. Actually, I was talking to Madeline and Andrew Lloyd Webber about it last night, how they were telling me that Glenn Close had sometimes found it hard to really disconnect and to come down maybe from being Norma Desmond after the show.

5:59And I said, well, what's so beautiful about the work that I've done with Jamie is he's really allowed me to bring myself to the role. And we've bridged the gap. I've just found Norma Desmond within me. So it's actually been quite cathartic and therapeutic to stand on stage every night and say, this is all of me. This is the fun parts, the silly parts, the loud parts, the demanding parts. and then these are the ugly parts and these are the broken parts and these are the crevices of my darkness you know and and to to just put it all out there do you think this is the part that you could have played younger as in when you were younger absolutely not I could have sung the music because for some reason I came out of my mother's womb singing and understanding music That's my best way I know how to communicate.

6:59But everything in my life has led me to play this role. All of the life experiences, all of my struggles with my own demons, in relationships, in career, in work, my own mind, tormented mind like Norma Desmond, has really led me to be able to truly play this role so authentically. every night I pray when I sit on stage people may or may not see me but I'm in the back and I'm in the dark I pray and I meditate and I say help me to tell the most truthful honest authentic story that I can thank you for sharing that you are something of an icon for me personally because we are born in the same year 1978 yeah oh when is your birthday November, 10th of November.

7:52Oh, so I'm older. But you would not know it. And that's what I mean. You, for me, have really shown the empowerment of age in so many ways. I mean, obviously you are knockout beautiful, but I feel that you are only just getting started. And I feel like that in my 40s too. Does that resonate with you? A million percent. People talk about ageism. I said, okay, listen, I think the failure, the tragedy is that I'm 45 years old. I've never been more fit physically. I've never been more wise in my mind. I've never been more focused. I've never been more determined. Everything I've gone through in my life.

8:42So what is ageism? It's such a negative thing that we put too much focus and power on. So I was thinking about this and I was like, what's the opposite of ageism? And I was like, the opposite of ageism is age-alicious. Yes. It's just Scherzinger phrase. I love a Scherzinger phrase. It is celebrating who you are, everything that brought you here, right? Who you are, where you are right now. And that is called life, you know? And it's just like celebrating. This is our prime. I'm better than ever. You're better than ever. We're wiser than ever. We're stronger than ever. We're braver than ever. We're bolder than ever.

9:30We're more unapologetic, more courageous than ever. This is the time. I mean, it's kind of crazy when you think, when I was doing X Factor, I think it was like 25. Once you're 25, you're in the overs. Even the category name, the overs, is so harsh. I know. Isn't that crazy? So like only 25 people who are 25 and below, they're the only people that count, that only need music and art. No. Oh, the whole world is so, right? Yeah, I could not agree more. And actually, before we get onto your first failure, I had not fully understood until it came to doing the research for this interview, how much you have shaped popular culture.

10:17Because I watched all of the X Factor when you were a judge, you were amazing. But when I put it all together, you were behind Rylan, discovering Rylan, James Arthur, and forming One Direction. So really without you, there's no Harry Styles. Pretty much. I'm waiting for my cut. That's an old joke. Have you always, do you think, had instinct about what makes great art in others as well as in yourself? I think it's going to sound really bad. Like when you have it, something within you, and I believe we're all chosen for various reasons, right? Everyone is chosen, has a great purpose for various reasons.

10:57But when you have that something, you can then recognize it within someone else. You see it. I don't know how I fell into that job. I fell into it accidentally because I think, I believe, bless, dear Cheryl Cole got ill and they needed me to fill in. And I was doing boot camp and I was like, listen, I just came from the Pussycat Dolls. These guys, we have too many boys in this category that are too good. but it's a shame to let go of these guys they're going to be stronger together as a group Simon we've got to create a group and at that time there wasn't any groups like that there were more man band groups like like take that and like Westlife and Backstreet Boys and we didn't have any younger groups so I don't know I'm a visionary you this is why Simon keeps me his back pocket I'm just joking um no I just think that when you have that thing you're able to see it within others and I'm And I'm so proud of everybody.

11:56So happy for everyone. I mean, Rylan is doing so brilliant. I also had my sweet John Maine that year. I was Rylan, John Maine, and James. And he's like my angel. He's like my little brother and my little lamb that he is like still in my life. And then James, all the success that he's had in One Direction and Harry Styles. All the boys from One Direction are having wild success. So I'm grateful that I could be a part of that in some small way.

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13:31let's get on to your first failure yay yay because we're here to celebrate vulnerability and authenticity and that's how we learn and grow and evolve exactly your first failure is to do with the struggles that got you where you are today I remember I think it was around 2008 I was in New York City and I was with my manager at the time and I had worked so hard on this demo and this portfolio with pictures and I even did my own music video and songs that I recorded and original songs that I recorded. I was shopping it around determined to get a solo deal. I went around to every record label. And during that day, it was the actual blackout, the big blackout that happened in New York City.

14:24And there I was in Arista, top of this building, blackout happens, the execs running around. I'm singing my song, Acapella, in the dark. And he's like, keep going. And he's like grabbing his stuff, freaking out. And then he just bolts out of the door and goes down the fire escape, as you do in New York City. That was my last, and then my audition. Couldn't cut a break. No one would pick me up. And I was really down about that. But what was great is that I still had that portfolio. So when I had heard about the Pussycat Dolls audition, I was fully equipped to give them my music and everything. and the rest was history.

15:08So that happened with PCD. I don't think people realize that for a long time before the Pussycat Dolls, I was first in a group called Pop Stars. First I was in an actual rock group, acoustic rock group signed to Geffen Records called Days of the New and we toured with like Foo Fighters and Bush and everything. Then I was in Pop Stars and then I was trying to go solo and that led me to the dolls. People don't realize the journey. Yeah. All the doors closed. Yes. Because you dropped out of college to tour with that rock band as well, didn't you? Yes, I did. And then Pop Stars was the reality TV show and you formed Eden's Crush off the back of that.

16:00Yes. And I didn't know either. So I'm really glad that you've shared that story. The idea of doing an audition in a citywide blackout. In a blackout. And then having to pick yourself up and try again. You keep trying and keep, I just, yeah, when you have, you have to believe, you have to have that vision and you just can't let go of it. Because if you could see it, if you could dream it, then it could happen. And so I just never let up. And then the dolls came along that audition. And what's cool is that I never imagined that's how I would get my first break. And I actually signed a solo deal the same day as I signed the dolls deal.

16:41So I'm just saying things come in different boxes, not when you expect them, right? For me, I'm very spiritual. So I like to say that God has bigger plans and a bigger imagination than we could ever. We actually limit ourselves with how we think. So sometimes we think like, okay, I want to go this way. And it's like, no, you're actually aligned and meant to go that way. And that's going to get you to go back that way. Does that make any sense? It makes total sense. And I'm a big believer of it as well. The things that haven't worked out for me personally, I strive to try and learn the meaning behind that and the purpose that might be disguised within that struggle.

17:19Exactly. Like things aren't happening. One of my favorite lines is, it's not happening to me, it's happening for me. I want to talk a little bit about your work ethic because what listeners to this podcast might not appreciate is that you turned up with notes that you had made, pages and pages, yellow full-scat notes that you had made in preparation for this podcast. I'm so appreciative of that. And I recognize that quality in myself. And again, I think maybe a lot of women - Yeah, I can see that as you're like telling, reminding me of my own career and my track record. I'm like, wow, she knows more about myself than I do.

17:56But I think a lot of women or maybe marginalized people in some way feel that they need to over-prepare in order to be able to show up, in order to be able not to be underestimated by mainstream culture. And I want to ask you a bit about that, but I also just want to go back to your childhood. How much do you think your work ethic is shaped by how you grew up? Because you didn't have a lot of money growing up. So were you always aware of the need to work, to make a living? Absolutely. When you grow up not having any money and your family is struggling, It's kind of embarrassing. It's really embarrassing.

18:37And as you get older, I thank God every day that I came from nothing because it's what made me. It's what shaped me. It didn't break me. You know, it made me. What doesn't break you makes you. And it's built me to who I am today. And I do have that very strong work ethic because of it, that insatiable work ethic. I think it runs in my blood as well, my Hawaiian, Ukrainian, Filipino blood. It runs in our blood. But I'm super grateful for it because I don't take anything for granted. And I always feel like I'm always striving for excellence and greatness. I think it could drive some of the people who work around me crazy because I'm like, it could always be better.

19:23I still tell Jamie, I can do better. I know I can do better. I just always want to strive for greatness and excellence. Otherwise, I feel like I'm not making it count and I'm wasting my time here of what I'm supposed to truly be doing. Does that manifest itself in your romantic relationship? I think so. I think sometimes it could be unhealthy in that way when not only in a romantic relationship, but also with the relationship with yourself where you work too much. that you're not able to celebrate those wins and those victories and just truly be present and be happy and be in awe and enjoy those moments, you know?

20:04There was this quote I read that made me sad about, I think one of your first parts that you got age 14 was the lead in Alice in Wonderland. And you had said, I couldn't believe that I got this part because I was up against a blonde girl with blue eyes. Is that a feeling that has stayed with you? That feeling of not looking the part or not being some way that someone else is? Well, I think that's what's so beautiful now of where we've progressed into this day and age, you know, I'm playing Norma Desmond, you know, people might have not. I think I saw Lea Salonga and I storied it the other day, said three Filipinos are now leading, on leading roles on the West End.

20:55Like it's never been like that in history, you know. So we've come a long way since then. Back then, yeah, that was unheard of. But my teacher, Miss Mateus, was so radical in the way that she thought and she just defied she broke all the rules and she didn't care and she looked at me and she's like that's Alice in Wonderland and that was many moons ago I mean gosh I'm 45 now that was what 26 years ago I mean so kudos for her for being so forward-thinking and giving me that opportunity but yes that the fact of the matter was because back then it was like that you know I was like a little brownie I didn't look like everybody else in Louisville Kentucky growing up.

21:38But that's what the blessing was, is that it makes me so unique today. And at the time, what were your parents thinking of your ambition and your vision to be? They just let me go. They knew when I was like six years old and I heard the greatest love of all, Whitney Houston was like the voice of God to me. And I just, they knew that I had my own ambitions. I was always had this dream and vision and they just supported me. Like I said, we didn't come from much. So it's not like they're like, go and be a doctor or a lawyer. They're like, wow, you're taking the wheel.

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23:26let's get on to your second failure because it relates to so much of what we've been talking about and it's your failure to put your own needs first that sense of compromising our self-worth sometimes so tell me why you pick this as a failure my mother would always say don't don't compromise yourself. That was one of the things she wanted me to, one of the things she would say to me growing up. And I think I have found myself compromising my self-worth, my value, my emotional needs a lot of times in relationships. I never like, my name, Nicole, actually means victory. So I never like to play the victim role.

24:17I always like to make everything, you know, something positive, the victor. In turn, what I'm saying is I've compromised feeling those ways and not putting my needs first, my emotional needs first and that self-worth in relationships. And in the end, I think that the biggest failure is I've compromised myself in the relationship with myself. Yeah, that's something that I work on constantly and I'm still working on is not compromising my self-worth and my value and my emotional needs and putting other people's firsts. Do you struggle to believe that you are worth your own love? yes i think if we break it down a lot of people you know it always comes back to self-love right and i think it's easier said than done but i think that we're very hard on ourselves i know i was always very hard on myself growing up and our perfectionist and not thinking i was ever enough or nothing was ever enough and i'm i'm working on that every day you know it's very interesting all of these things that happen in our lives I think they say what is it like you're shaped by the time with between the ages of three three and eight is it yeah I think up to the age of seven or eight it's really formative yeah so it's a lot of what goes on how your atmosphere what was going on in your how you grew up and my home growing up when I was younger wasn't always a very healthy atmosphere.

26:02And because of that, as a child, when you see a lot of things going on, do you put your needs last? Does that make sense to be the peacemaker, to calm things or to try to make things better if you see your parents under a lot of stress or fighting? and, you know. I'm so sorry to hear that, Nicole. No, no, no. I think every, I think, you know, I'm so grateful because my family has made me who I am. How I grew up has made me who I am. And I grew up in a lot of love, you know. But no, no, I don't think any household is perfect. I mean, I'm only sharing that because if other people are out there, I learned later on, I was like, why am I not able to maybe set some boundaries and relationships?

26:58Or why don't I put my needs first and I only ever care about what the other person wants and thinks of me and making them happy? And I found out it was because when I was younger, having to be in that sometimes volatile atmosphere to be like, your needs don't really matter. you have to make sure they're okay. Does that make sense? It makes complete sense. We're getting psychological and deep here. I welcome it. But I'm hoping that maybe can help someone else. Definitely. And I relate very deeply to it in ways that I will go on to tell you. But when you are describing the childhood atmosphere and you say it was volatile, was it physically volatile, emotionally volatile, both?

27:42Emotionally, more emotionally. Yeah. And one of the things, and I hope this isn't overstepping, but I wanted to ask you was, I speak to a lot of incredibly successful people, and you are one of them. And many of them have fathers that left or that weren't around in some way. And there is a sense, I think, deep-rooted that they want to prove they would have been good enough for their father to stay. And I wonder if you have also maybe thought that in relation to your own psychology. I definitely have abandonment issues. And that is because my actual biological father did leave me, I think, when I was three.

28:23And so I didn't think it would ever affect me, but I guess somewhere it did affect me. And so I definitely have my own issues with that, for sure. I have really strong abandonment issues, unfortunately, which is wonderful for my character, Norma. See, it all ties back to that. It brought me back. And Norma has huge abandonment issues. She feels so abandoned in her life, so empty, so lonely. And it all just ties into it. It's like it was just a line meant to be that I was meant to play this role one day. Totally, because celebrity I can imagine can feel like acceptance and love. But as Norma Desmond shows, it's not the kind of wholesome, solid, rooted love that we actually need.

29:14And when I say that I relate to what you're saying, I really, really do. So I was a total people pleaser throughout my teenage years, my twenties. I ended up married to the wrong person. We got divorced. And the most important thing for me at that time was that they were happy and their needs were catered for, and then they would never leave me because I was trying to be perfect. And that, and I'm glad that you said that. And it's the word is you don't want them to leave. You just want them to stay. I believe in relationships, whether good or bad's happening, you always can grow from it. And you need to learn more about yourself.

29:52And I like to take ownership of responsibility in that, you know. So, and I learned so much from that. A relationship is not a failure just because it ends, I always think. Oh no, you're learning way more about yourself. Way more about yourself. You get what you tolerate. Yes. That's so good. Don't tolerate it. Don't tolerate it. You tolerate it. That's what you'll get. Yeah. And also the other thing that I think is great about being the age that we are is that I look back and those relationships that ended that I thought I would never be able to survive their ending. Spoiler alert, I did survive.