ON IVF… With Jessel Taank and Paloma Faith

0:00If you know me and my podcast, you'll know that I'm a big advocate of therapy and have done a lot of work on myself over the years. But something I always found difficult was finding the right therapist for me. I know firsthand how hard it is to find someone you click with who has availability at a convenient time for you. And I wish I'd known about Ruler, the healthcare company back then. Ruler is on a mission to make high quality mental health care easy and affordable for everyone. They take most major insurance plans and the average copay is only$15 per session. You can now get the quality care you need, when you need it, at a price you can afford.

0:39Thousands have already trusted Rula to support them on their journey toward improved mental health and overall well-being. Head on over to ruler.com slash htf to get started today. After you sign up, they ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that our show sent you. Go to RULA.com, that's R-U-L-A dot com slash H-T-F and take the first step towards better mental health today. You deserve quality care from someone who cares.

1:27that? You want this translated into song? I hope you're sitting down. You can pay your own way. You keep those ears on, you hear? Don't just pay, baby. PayPal. Learn more at paypal.com. Welcome back to this week's episode reflecting on some of the best bits from the How to Fail archive. This week, we're taking a look at an extremely important and personally resonant for me topic and that is IVF. I'm someone who herself has gone through several unsuccessful rounds of fertility treatment and I'm really passionate about making the conversation as open as it can be to de-stigmatize it because a lot of us carry misplaced shame.

2:14Jaisal Tank is a key cast member in The Real Housewives of New York and when she came on How to Fail earlier this year she talked so openly and honestly about her three-year struggle to become a mum of twins. She talked about how she took her frustration out on her husband, how it took a toll on them financially and how during her five rounds of IVF she questioned her whole relationship and whether she even wanted to be a mother in the first place. She then talks about the euphoria of finding out that she was pregnant and also the reality of having twins. Paloma Faith also went through IVF and she speaks about the isolation she experienced.

2:55She also talks about ectopic pregnancy, postpartum psychosis and depression and the other experiences she went through after her first baby. She now has two daughters and you might have heard that she recently announced she's pregnant with her third. Congratulations to Paloma. As someone who has walked some of this journey myself, I really do hope that this episode brings a little comfort, whether you're going through it personally or you know someone who is. First up then, here's Jessel Tank.

3:29Okay, let's get on to your second failure, which is your failure to balance motherhood with personal ambition. I'm so, so happy that you're going to talk about this, Jessel. I really am. And when I knew you were coming on the podcast and I asked you for your failures, I was hoping that you'd bring something around motherhood up because you won't remember this, but I watched you in the first season of Real Housewives. We didn't know each other, but you spoke openly, so profoundly and movingly about IVF. And I have also been through that unsuccessfully, but I felt so seen in what you were saying and you expressed yourself with such eloquence and sensitivity for those of us who understand it.

4:07And I DM'd you because I'm so grateful and you got back to me. So it was very nice of you, but that's why I'm really happy that we get a chance to talk about it in more depth. So tell me why you chose this, Fabia. It's a big part of, I think, who I am today. I still struggle with it. Growing up when people would ask me, and I'm sure a lot of women get asked this question, how many kids do you want? And it's such a simple question. And I would always laugh and say, oh, I don't want kids. I would love a dog. I think as women, you are expected to bear children. And that is the role, right? Like it's as soon as you get married, it's like, what are you having kids?

4:48Or, you know, it's just something that is almost like forced upon us. the truth is I was never maternal or I never felt maternal. I was always very ambitious. And I always, when I think about my successes, it was, it was always surrounding my career. So when I did get married, I always felt like the next step in the process was to have kids. And, you know, we did delay it as much as we could. I wanted to travel and, and really experience, you know, the world as much as I could. But there came a time where I knew my husband really wanted kids. And so when we started trying and it wasn't happening, I was really, you know, I was like, wow, like maybe this isn't meant to be.

5:39But then it took a whole other turn for me because motherhood became really, really hard or trying to be, you know, a mother became really stressful. And it just kind of took a dive from there, I think. I almost became really frustrated. I became almost a shell of myself because I was then putting all this energy into trying to have kids. And I put almost my career on the back burner. And I think I was mentally checking out because I was like, okay, here we are. We're like in the thick of it. It took me years to have kids. And I was like, those three years, I could have really focused on other things, you know?

6:22Yeah. I think when you go through IVF, I mean, I was very ignorant and naive when I first started doing IVF. And I did not realize that it's essentially like taking on a whole other job. And if you already have a job, and not only if you have a job, but if you are someone as you are, who is used to applying yourself and getting the results, it's very difficult then to be pitched into this world of uncertainty and ambiguity where you are doing all of the work and sometimes the results just aren't fair they're not happening for you did you feel like you were failing yes so did i 100 it's actually a large part of the reason why i launched this podcast yeah and i think and i don't know if you relate to this but part of the reason i felt i was failing was the social conditioning that you're talking about the idea that it's our biological imperative as women but also I felt failed by my own body and I felt that the medical language around fertility for women is often the language of failure that the the the phrases that often male clinicians use are the phrases of failure so you have an incompetent cervix or an inhospitable womb or you're failing to respond to medication and that just really worms its way inside your psyche And I don't know if that, if you had that experience too.

7:39Yeah, very much. I think, you know, it, it is very much a social, um, taboo to like, or a cultural taboo even to like not be able to have kids at the blink of an eye, you know, and it took the fun, it sucked the fun out of it for me. Like then at that point, being a mother wasn't going to be fun because I already went through so much. And, you know, again, like you are put in this like little bucket of like, oh, well, you know, here you go. It's something that you're going to have to deal with. It's going to be such a struggle for you to get pregnant. And it's a big reason why I wasn't so open and honest about what I was going through.

8:24Because I didn't want people to look at me in that way as a failure and gossip and talk about how I wasn't able to like have kids. Because you didn't tell your family. It was really just you and Pavik going through it, just the two of you. Yeah, and a few friends who I chose to tell. And can you take us back to what impact that had on your relationship at the time that you were going through it and you weren't sure whether you could get pregnant? Yeah, I think I blamed him a lot. It wasn't his fault. But because he was the only person that was, you know, in this with me, I took a lot of frustration out on him.

9:01um and i think that he handled it like a pro like he handles most things but he was really my punching bag through the through the entire process financially it took a toll on us i mean what were we like 100 grand maybe 150 grand in at this point and with no like feasible light at the end of the tunnel like that's a down payment on a house you know it was it took a it was a very very tough time for us in our relationship um I just remember one night I got the results of my third egg retrieval and it was the same you know song and dance like nothing was viable and I just remember like thinking am I even supposed to be where I am right now like is this a sign where I should be doing something completely different like should I even be married should I just like end this right now and just be you know a successful entrepreneur and do it on my own like those were the thoughts that were going through my head because you just don't like if something's not working and it's hard and you're like toughing it roughing it out you're like is this a sign that this is not my destiny yes I totally relate to that yeah and do you mind me asking how many rounds you had to do yeah I did five in the end you're so strong How many did you do?

10:22I did two. So I did, this is a whole other podcast. I was married before and I did two rounds in that marriage. And those two rounds were unsuccessful, but also highlighted that I wanted it more than he did. Right. And then I got pregnant naturally and had a miscarriage at three months. And that was devastating. And ultimately the end of our marriage for various other reasons, it was kind of the catalyst. Yeah. And then I was 36 being like, oh, well, now what do I do? Do I concentrate on trying to find a fulfilling relationship or do I try and get pregnant? And so I froze my eggs, very disappointing results.

10:59All of that failed to respond to the drugs. And then I met my now husband on a dating app and we got pregnant naturally just after my 41st birthday, had another miscarriage, but then that showed us how much we wanted it and so then I did various procedures um and we ended up having another miscarriage and then I did egg donation and then that didn't work either oh my god so it was a lot it was attritional and it was over a 12-year process oh my goodness and I can talk about it now without crying because I am truly at peace with the fact yeah that I won't have a biological child in this lifetime.

11:38And it got to the stage for me where I did feel like, why am I pushing against this unforgiving obstacle so much when actually I'm so grateful for the relationship I have and I'm surrounded by children in other ways and I'm lucky that I have a fulfilling career. And so for me, I decided to let it go. And that was two years ago. And that takes immense amount of strength. I mean, kudos to you because I think that to come to terms with something like that is so gut-wrenching. Yeah. I mean... It was hard. Yeah. I had an amazing psychic reading that really helped. Oh, good. I'll tell you about that later.

12:17Those psychics, they know what to do, what to say at the right time. The good ones are great. The good ones are great. Wow. So you did five rounds. Yeah. And then you got pregnant on your fifth or on the sixth? So I did five rounds and then I'd never had a transfer before because we didn't have the viable embryos. So round five, I think I had the viable embryos at that point. I did a transfer and I begged my doctor to put two in because it wasn't because I wanted twins and the cute twin thing. I was just like, if this doesn't work, I need a backup. I need insurance in there. So I signed a waiver.

12:53He was like, this is not great. You know, we don't recommend you do two at one time. But I signed a waiver. And of course, those two little suckers stuck. And I was like, oh, crap. Well, here we go. We're having two at one time. But the feeling of, you know, after like this whole debacle, the feeling of getting pregnant at that time was just like, wow. Like I was just so grateful. I was so excited to tell everyone. and then I had them and I was like oh crap like they're there to stay like now I have to really it sounds like I mean don't don't call me out on this but like you know it's like the excitement it's like almost like you know when you're you would get engaged and then you like you're so excited for the wedding and then the wedding happens and then you're like okay what now yes that's how what's the next thing to focus on what's the next thing so I was like pregnant I was excited and we told everyone and like there was all of this hype and then I had the kids and I was just like oh crap like it was almost like this moment where I was like well this is it I have kids now well I also imagine that when you go through lots of facility treatment and then you end up having the baby is there part of you that feels like I am not allowed to complain because I wanted this so much and I put us through so much and I think sometimes women struggle with that because obviously you are allowed to say it's really tough.

14:17But there's probably part of you that feels like you're letting yourself down by admitting that. Yeah, absolutely. And it's funny because Puffet's like, they are really expensive kids. You better appreciate them in every which way. And I do, of course. But again, going back to, are you maternal? I don't think I am still, which is such a weird thing to say, but I just am not. I love hearing you say that. that's that's going to help so many women honestly and I think it's probably a far more common feeling yeah than people imagine because what you're saying is I don't think I'm maternal it's not saying that you don't love your kids or that you're not an amazing mother which you are yeah like so are you what do you mean when you say you're not maternal in that I I had the kid I have my kids and I'm so grateful and they're amazing but I don't want my life to revolve around the fact that I am a mother.

15:11I think it's one element of my life and I hope that I'm doing a good job and I wake up every day and I hope that I'm raising them in the best way I can. But I have so many other ambitions that take priority, not priority, but are the same level of priority, I would say. And coming to terms with that was really tough because I think, again, because you're a mom, You're supposed to feel like that's kind of like the thing that you focus on. Pavit being the person he is, has really almost taken that like role of being the mother and the father while I'm doing this, while I'm pursuing what I'm doing.

15:50And I'm so grateful for him because he's just, you know, he wakes up in the morning, he gives them breakfast, he'll take them to school. I'll do work stuff. Like it's like he really is taking on this incredible role of, you know, the main sort of like parent in a way. Do you feel guilt? No, I don't. That is so great. I don't because I think I give them enough, but I also don't want to shrivel up and die and not pursue what I set out to pursue. Yeah. You said this amazing thing. I just want to find the quote because it's so funny and apt. It was about how having twins, okay, the way I like to describe it, you said, is you buy tickets to a rave and you want to go to the rave, but then when you're at the rave, you just can't leave you're constantly dancing to the music and it's very intense how good is that quote so good by the way I love a good rave yeah well how are you fine how old are the twins now um three and a half and how is it how are you doing so hard oh it's so hard like now they're like mimicking they're like mocking me like they repeat what I say in my like accent and just like, oh my God, they're like little monsters.

17:02I don't have family in New York. And so I can't, you know, I think a lot of people are able to give their kids to their parents for a weekend or to, you know, we don't have that structure here. So it's double as hard. Yeah. I can, I can sense that. Yeah. You're doing a great job. You and Pavit are both doing a great job. Thank you. Now, for anyone who hasn't seen your first series, The Real Housewives of New York, you opened up again in a very courageous way about the knock-on effect that fertility treatment had had on how you felt about your body and your intimacy with Pavit yeah would you mind just speaking a bit about that for anyone who hasn't seen that because I think it's so powerful yeah no thank you for asking that IVF is so isolating I think that a lot of women who haven't been through it, can't really understand what it means to go through, you know, months of drugs and hormones.

17:58And it just very much like sucked my sort of identity in a way. As I was going through it, you know, you feel bloated and you feel, you just don't feel like yourself. Imagine going through your period every month, for instance, and it's just like this constant, you just feel gross, right that's how I felt for three years almost for me trying to get pregnant it took a it took a different path because I was almost putting all this pressure on him and it became work but when you're trying to get pregnant you know it's like you have a schedule and I was like let's go and he I don't think he enjoyed it either so I think the intimacy really took a deep dive during those years of trying to get pregnant.

18:43And then when I have the kids, I also, you know, I had a cesarean. I just needed to focus on me and not my marriage in a way. I know that sounds selfish. No, it doesn't. It sounds wise, actually. Like you had to do that. You have to put your own oxygen mask on before you can help the others. A little bit. I really wanted to snap back and and do all the things, but it just took a long time for me. I did have PTSD to be honest, because I think I equated having sex to that, you know, the, the motions of trying to get pregnant. And it, it did take a bit of a, a toll on, on our relationship. He was, again, Pabit is like, can do no wrong.

19:30He's like so patient and, um, really didn't pressure any of it. But, you know, I, I knew that it was something I needed to step back into. Yeah. It's so interesting you say that. I, at the end of these 12 years of fertility treatment, it was only once I was out of it that I understood the impact it had had on my body and how I felt about it. And I have recently got into weight training and it's been transformational for me for that reason, because I feel I'm back in my body and I feel really strong and good about it. And that was denied me, and I'm sure you, for all of those years that you were going through it.

20:10Because you can't control how you look and you're not even focused on that. Do you know what I mean? Yes. It's like, you can't focus on feeling good because you're just pumping yourself with just in, and it's almost like desperation, right? Like I felt desperate and I felt like I had to combat this thing. and you put everything sort of aside. Like I said, my career, how I looked, how I felt about myself, my relationship, all those things took sort of a backseat. I'm so glad you're on the other side of it. Although I know that there is a third embryo on ice, a girl that you are very keen to have and that Pavit is more cautious about.

20:51Yeah, financially, I think it's like traumatizing for him. I would love to have a third child, but you know, I want to make sure that he's on the same page. Yeah. And I think a lot of this season that you just saw was us trying to sort of like come to terms with what that looks like. And to be honest, I don't think he wants another kid. Like, I think for him, I'm going to say this, like, I think a lot of the focus was on me and my trauma. I didn't talk about Pavit and what he went through. And I think a lot of people sort of dismissed the husband in these scenarios. He went through a lot. Yeah.

21:26I mean, he was dealing with my, like, nonsense. He was paying for all the treatments. and you know I know that that was like hurting him and I'm sure it was really tough on him but I never asked you know we never talked about it because I was so selfish in that moment I was like I can't get pregnant you know and I'm sure that it was very hard for him. I love how you go to bat for Pavit and like how you do for each other actually I think you've got a really beautiful relationship and I know it's come under some scrutiny but I just see two people who really love each other and who are interdependent rather than codependent.

22:00Oh, a thousand percent. Yeah. Thank you for saying that because it's like, I feel like I'm constantly having to justify our relationship and I'm really done with it. Like I'm not stepping up and, and try and gonna, you know, justify anything that I don't feel like I need to anymore. Preach.

22:20and your second failure is your failure to conceive your kids naturally so you had IVF and also your failure to have a natural birth yeah and the reason I'm so pleased that you're talking about this is because I also went through several rounds of fertility treatment had recurrent miscarriages and don't have children and I'm at peace with that now it's been a long journey but I'm at peace with it and that's why I'm really grateful to have this conversation with you that you still feel this failure even though you have your daughters so please tell me about your journey first of all sorry because it's so harrowing doing it and then like no and it's always in the background no one really knows it's happening yeah and it's a quite a lonely thing I think to do even if you've got a partner you're still alone in it because it's all on you isn't it very very isolating so what happened with me was I always thought or felt that quite fertile and I had had a situation when I was very young where I sort of looked at penis and became pregnant so I just thought I was like oh on high alert my whole life about not conceiving after that and then we had some issues we knew quite quick I knew quite quickly there was problems because I'm a bit witchy anyway and I just thought there was something and then found out that what actually happened was the beginning of our fertility treatment it was because it was on his side that there was fertility problems but thanks to modern science and the patriarchy it still falls on the woman no funding research has been done to allow the man who's got fertility problems to take any sort of physical responsibility for that it's the same process as if it was my issue it began like that and then I then had an ectopic pregnancy with the first um I'm sorry one and then so then you like then my fertility starts going because I've had one tube damaged so then it's like every other month and then anyway so the second time did work so I was lucky because I actually had two viable pregnancies even though one was ectopic quite quickly and then the birth was really difficult it was like actually unbearable and the kind of long version is in my book but it started off with proms which is called premature rupture of membranes where you're sort of in labor and that was only six months pregnant I think it's in my book yeah and so I was leaking and they were like you're gonna have to induce we're gonna have a premature baby and I just kind of like was really defiant that I didn't want to do that and I basically had bed rest and I was just drinking four litres of water a day and I kept her in for a month just laying down to kind of replenish the lost waters and then eventually the birth itself was went terribly wrong and lots of things like we all have this idea that we're gonna have this natural birth and it's all gonna be perfect and I'm mother nature and like even I've written about this in my book they tell you that you put the baby on you and it finds its way to the breast absolute nonsense I don't know who came up with that but it's rubbish it doesn't they just lay there looking at you crying and then it all just went a bit wrong and after 21 hours of labor and like a lot of kind of stuff and no sleep for a week I had seven hours sleep in seven days I had an emergency cesarean which also caused me later on fertility problems as well and then a bit of postpartum psychosis because of lack of sleep so I like was hallucinating it was all just awful that's so traumatic I was probably depressed for a couple of years without realizing because the weird thing about depression is that I didn't realize was that you don't or any mental illness is when it's legitimate mental illness you're very unaware of the fact you've got it and it's only when it passes that I realized that I had been mentally unwell and so I think that took its toll on my relationship which this album's about and and then like later you know I wanted a second child and then I had three failed um transfers like one more egg collection three failed transfers and then the fourth one worked and then I was just so kind of headstrong about it in a way how like a woman doing IVF becomes almost like in this trance-like state of like that's what I want and a lot of stuff falls by the wayside like your emotional life your relationship because you're just so like focused on this thing in quite an obsessive way you don't even like consider what might be lost or a woman's identity becoming a mother or anything you're just about having these babies anyway eventually I've been very fortunate and grateful that I've I had the second one but even then it's only recently because that child's now too and she I didn't realize that I'd been quite depressed even after that and actually wonder I always think like would my relationship have broken down if I'd have medicated like this stuff doesn't get talked about enough I feel like maybe it was all because of it you said that you're a bit witchy I imagine you believe in some sort of universal power do you think it had to be this way in that respect like how do you feel now being a mother given everything that you went through and what you had to deal with and the pain you had to suffer along the way and what was lost as well as the enormous fortune that you have these two beautiful daughters but how does that feel I just wonder whether it's a mindset like I see people who have careers and lives where the stuff they want stuff and it sort of just happens my manager who's been my manager since the beginning of my career called and he was like yeah but it wouldn't be you if it was easy would it and he said that and I was like oh my god you're right actually like it's always whatever whatever's happened it's been difficult and I think that goes for a lot of people but sometimes from the outside you look at the world and you think oh like I know people who said oh we're going to start trying for a baby and three weeks later they're pregnant or people who sit in interviews in the music business and say yeah we just wrote this song in 10 minutes and it's a global smash you're just like ah how's that happened to you but you know what though the beauty for you for paloma faith and for the rest of us is in those difficulties because what you're doing every single time you're surmounting a challenge is you're becoming wiser and stronger yeah and also like those cases are usually in reality a bit of a minority like i'm sure you know from your podcast that most successful people have had way more failures than they've had successes and only people only ever focus on their successes they never focus on the million times that they failed before that can we just clip that how that is the social media clip the official blurb precisely that but I just want to return to the fact that you've chosen this as one of your failures I I can relate to it but I think some people will be listening thinking but it's not your failure if you didn't manage to conceive no you're right it's to do with social pressure isn't it it's to do with how we're raising our girls how we're raising women from childhood as like this is one of your purposes in life is you were born to do this and you were born to further the human race and no pressure but now because of feminism this is one of my things is like this abandoned us is like but you also need to like have your independence you need to have your career and you know we've all arrived at this point in history where we're like well trying to get my career going and then it means that we're having children later and then we're not really being able to kind of foresee these issues early enough to be able to time runs away from us doesn't it it's like now I'm 42 and I think oh I'd love another child but I've kind of thought I probably won't be able to now not with all and my mum's always like your body wouldn't cope with it but I think yeah it's exactly that it's to do with like this idea that we are groomed to think that's our job and that that's our kind of that's the most fulfilling thing you can do as a woman that's not true even when you've got kids you're made to feel a bit guilty if you don't think that your kids are the most fulfilling thing in your life I do get a lot of fulfillment from other parts of life it doesn't mean that I don't love my children or I'm neglecting them I remember saying something to my mum even about sacrifice when it comes to parenthood like all the sacrifices you make for yourself well I wouldn't look at it as a sacrifice having a child is not a sacrifice and it's like you're not even allowed to think that you might go well sometimes I do quite miss spontaneity sorry to admit but I do sort of miss being able to go right I'm getting on a plane tomorrow and I'm going to go and just be at this thing that might help my career or whatever motivates you or just see this natural phenomena or whatever it is go see a volcano Yeah, exactly.

32:22And we're allowed to be many different things that are sometimes complementary and sometimes contradictory. And the patriarchy does all genders a disservice. It traps us all. And you alluded to this, but the idea that the medical establishment has not funded a lot of research into how to make things easier for women in many respects. and certainly my experience going through IVF and I know it's changed a lot now but I was made to feel like a failure because of the language used by medical professionals like that idea geriatric mother yes I get that or like this transfers failed exactly you fail to produce enough eggs yeah your cervix is incompetent yeah it's not and I heard one that was something like it's not a viable yeah no but something about the environment of my of my uterus inhospitable yeah inhospitable environment thanks i was very welcoming i felt i'm sure you have a lovely warm generous womb and i would love to book a room there high thread count sheets can you just tell us what your daughters are like as characters yin and yang so the older one is super bright on a sort of emotional comedic level because she's only seven people don't understand that she's just got really deadpan humor and quite often think she's just like a bit of a rude child but she's not because she sort of winks at me afterwards she's just so hilarious and it's like a bit of an old soul and she's like this dark person so there's a great anecdote that I've got from recently we went on holiday and the um the way she's very like feminist the the waiter like pulled out a chair and went this is for you princess and she went I am not a princess I'm the queen of darkness so she's kind of like a bit of a hero and then the other one is like where this one who's like kind of intelligent stimulating lateral thinking and a bit cynical the flip sometimes she's lacking a bit on the kind of like cuddles and the cuteness and so the little one's got all of that in bucket loads and everywhere we go people are just like oh my god I've never met a more cute child like she's just like this sort of she's like a Japanese cartoon character she's just so cute big eyes smiles at everyone and makes everyone feel special and I know what the future looks like the future looks like the older one is going to look after me in old age and like despise me and say I was irritating and annoying but be there every day like wiping my bum when I'm incontinent and then the young one's going to be someone sorry mother I'm just in Thailand they need me here everyone loves me just like giving her love and I'll be like oh she called to the older one be like she gets all the credit i'm so uplifted because she rang me once in six months and the older one will be like i hate you mother i'm here every day oh that's genius that's it that's the future please do follow how to fail to get new episodes as they land on apple podcast spotify amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts, please tell all your friends.

35:55This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.

36:05Here we have the Lemu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, Lemu? Is that guy with the binoculars watching us? Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need at LibertyMutual.com. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. Savings vary. Underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts. This is the season for all your holiday favorites. Like a very Jonas Christmas movie. And Home Alone on Disney+. Did I burn down the joint?

36:41I don't think so. Then Hulu has National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. We're all in for a very big Christmas treat. All of these and more streaming this holiday season. And right now, save big with our special Black Friday offer. Bundle Disney Plus and Hulu for just$4.99 a month for one year. Savings compared to current regular monthly price. And 12-1. Offer for ad-supported Disney Plus Hulu bundle only. Then$12.99 a month or then current regular monthly price. 18-plus terms apply.