ON REJECTION… With Mel B and Nicole Scherzinger

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0:43Turn your big business idea into with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your£1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.co.uk slash fail. Go to shopify.co.uk slash fail. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-in-one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online. Squarespace is here to support entrepreneurship and help turn your passion into a business. It does so with cutting-edge design, seamless checkout for customers with simple but powerful payment tools. It helps you turn leads into clients, allowing you to grow and communicate with your audience.

1:27Their customers include the Dusty Knuckle Bakery and Cafe in East London. And if you know, you know, their bread is amazing. They're a Squarespace customer and a brilliant example of how to do it right. Their training program provides young people who've been excluded by society with the basic skills for work and life. Go check them out. Head to squarespace.com slash fail10 for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code fail10, that's fail10, to save 10 % off your first purchase of a website or domain. Rejection is something that every single one of us will have faced. And as it turns out, even global superstars aren't immune.

2:07Take Spice Girl Mel B. Before the fame, she was just a young girl auditioning for The Sound of Music and failing to land a spot as one of the Von Trapps. But it was in that moment, with her parents' encouragement, that she learned the work ethic that would later define her success. And then there's Nicole Scherzinger. You might imagine she seamlessly leapt into stardom with the Pussycat Dolls, but her path was far from smooth. Nicole talks about dropping out of college to tour with a band called Popstars, facing rejection after rejection before her big break finally came. Because even the most successful women in the world have heard no more times than you'd think.

2:48and what makes them extraordinary is how they turn those rejections into resilience. Here's Mel B. Let's get on to your first failure because it's sort of linked to what we've just been discussing, which is a failed audition for being a Von Trapp child in a production of The Sound of Music. Yeah, I remember this very, very well. I got raised in a household, my dad's black, from the West Indies, from Nevis, My mum's white, born and raised up north in Leeds. So they're a mixed couple, which back in those days, there was a lot of stigma attached to that. There was a lot of NF, National Fronts, for example.

3:28My mum used to have to hand me to my dad on the bus so that he wouldn't get beaten up for being black and black with a white woman. So I got brought up with a very even outlook. I'm not black, I'm not white, I'm mixed. And I love that because I had friends before at school that were mixed. and I couldn't understand why they'd just call themselves black or just call themselves just white. I'd be like, yeah, but you're mixed. That's your mum and your dad. You've got the best of both worlds. Just quickly, what do you think of the term biracial? I don't get it. OK. I don't get it and I don't appreciate it.

4:03Good to know. Yeah. Because some people hate being called mixed. It used to really annoy me that when I used to fill out the passport form, it would be black, white or other. Now it's black, white, mixed with this, mixed with that, this and that. And I think, no, I'm just mixed. And I'm proud of that. So my mother got me into dance class. It was like 10p for me to go for an hour. I think it was like three times a week. So and because I had lots of energy, my mum was like, oh, God, give me a break. She's come on from school. She's done her homework. I'll put her in dance class down the street. So I became obsessed with just performing.

4:37And so there was an audition that a few of my friends were going to. and it was for the Von Trapp family. And my mum, in a very mum way, tried to explain, you know, you're not going to get it because you're not white with blonde hair and blue eyes. Not that she said that and I blocked that out anyway. I was like, no, it's an audition because once they see me, they're going to want me to be part of the stage performance. Finally, she got in the car and drove me and still on the journey there, she's like, Melanie, are you sure you want to do this? Because, you know, and I was like, I am adamant.

5:09I am going to go to that audition, I'm going to nail it and I'm going to get the job. Anyway, I didn't get the job because it was far easier back in those days to say, oh, you're to this, you're to that. Now we can't be as direct and rightly so. But that just goes to show that even though I knew it deep down, I didn't care. I still wanted to make sure that I went there so they could see me perform regardless of my colour. So many things strike me about this story. One is your incredible work ethic and that's something that I feel like you've always had. Yeah my mum and dad had that. You will just prove yourself.

5:43Yeah. Again and again and again. Yeah. Where do you think that work ethic came from for your mum and your dad? Different places I imagine. Well my dad came to England I think when he was was he nine? His grandmother looked after him in Nevis and that was quite common back in those days. So when he came over he didn't really know his parents didn't really fit in in school so he learned how to weld copper because back in those days if you learn a trade you're set for life really you always have a job so I was raised with my dad doing one week of morning shifts one week of afternoon shifts one week of night shifts and it was a routine and my dad never missed a day no matter hail rain or snow and he used to he used to ride his bike to work my mum took on an extra job because of the 10p a week dance classes and stuff like that and costumes that she would hand make so i've always known if you you've got to rely on yourself you can't rely on anybody else you've got to make your own money the other thing that strikes me about it is that you do not complain no you get on with it and you don't moan no which is which is many things it's it's it's quite northern just to like generalize horribly it's quite northern it's quite showbiz like the show must go on i don't know there's some celebrities that moan about everything.

7:02Yes. You're not one of them. I mean, it's two schools. Today I'm not. Who are they? Name them. No, I can't. Gerry Halliwell. No, I'm joking. But there are moments in Brucely Honest where you do talk about the fact that the National Front was a presence, that you got called horrible names at school. Yeah. You did get bullied, but what was your response? Well, my mum and dad used to say, for a start, fight your own battles, even though you'd been chased all the way from school to the house, which was, God, about a good 25-minute run. Because back then they didn't know what to call me. Did they call me half-breed?

7:39Did they call me the N-word? And I'd be like, I'm mixed. And then I'd run away because it was trying to get me. But I fought my own battles. So when you got rejected for the Von Trapp family, I just went, whatever. It's their loss. But I was inside, I was crushed. But I went to a lot of auditions. and I'm thankful for that time because literally at an audition back in those days you'd get told, no, too thin, too fat, too dark, too light. It would be that brutal. So you'd go, oh, okay then. Well, I'm not going to have an eating disorder because I like my booty. I'm just going to go to another audition.

8:14Those rejections taught you a lot about resilience. Yeah. I think that's you. If you ask anybody from back in those days when they were auditioning, they would all have like rhino skin. hard skin. It is a northern thing. You just pick yourself up and you just keep going. Were the other Spice Girls like that? Mel C. Mel C very much. I think we all were in our own individual ways because we were like the rejects out of all of our different groups of friends. So coming together, you know, we, that's why we were so strong and we felt such a connection because we were all not hard done by, but we didn't really fit in anywhere.

8:52But yet we fitted together, even though we were all completely different looking and from completely different backgrounds really but I mean when I think about it Jerry's mum I mean she she was a cleaner her dad was a car salesman Victoria's slightly different because she got driven to school in a Rolls Royce but she still had to work hard you know Mel C single parent got brought up in Liverpool so we've all had our like not perfect family lives if you want to call it that and you became your chosen family in a way oh 100 % yeah and we went through something so special that only the five of us really can know what that feels like because to have such a whirlwind and have so many doors closed like like in our face girl bands are not going to work we're like well why not well surrounded by boy bands right we get it but why why isn't this going to work so we're going to knock on another door and another door and another door until we find somebody that believed in us you know there are so many incredible spice girls tracks but my personal favourite is Holler which I think is quite underrated.

9:56I loved it. How we used to write is we'd all come in with some kind of a topic or a theme but it was always driven by one of our situations or the fact that you know we didn't want to be picked on anymore so we have to make sure it's clear that we are girl supporting girls and not where it goes too much into the fantasy world it's genuinely us five because we really like each other. Yes that's so great and And you're also so good about putting out into the universe the fact that you want a Spice Girls reunion to happen. I always say it, and it will. Okay, good. It will. It will. No, we are actually in talks, all five of us.

10:29I can't say what for. Let's get on to your first failure. Yay! Yay! Because we're here to celebrate vulnerability and authenticity. And that's how we learn and grow and evolve. Exactly. Your first failure is to do with the struggles that got you where you are today. I remember, I think it was around 2008, I was in New York City and I was with my manager at the time and I had worked so hard on this demo and this portfolio with pictures and I even did my own music video and songs that I recorded and original songs that I recorded. I was shopping it around, determined to get a solo deal. I went around to every record label.

11:17And during that day, it was the actual blackout, the big blackout that happened in New York City. And there I was in Arista, top of this building, blackout happens, the execs running around. I'm singing my song, Acapella, in the dark. And he's like, keep going. And he's like grabbing his stuff, freaking out. And then he just bolts out of the door and goes down the fire escape, as you do in New York City. And that was my last, and then my audition. Couldn't cut a break. No one would pick me up. And I was really down about that. But what was great is that I still had that portfolio. So when I had heard about the Pussycat Dolls audition, I was fully equipped to give them my music and everything.

12:05And the rest was history. So that happened with PCD. I don't think people realize that for a long time before the Pussycat Dolls, I was first in a group called Pop Stars. First I was in an actual rock group, acoustic rock group signed to Geffen Records called Days of the New. and we toured with like Foo Fighters and Bush and everything. Then I was in Pop Stars and then I was trying to go solo and that led me to the dolls. People don't realize the journey. Yeah. All the doors closed. Yes. Because you dropped out of college to tour with that rock band as well didn't you yes I did and then pop stars was the reality tv show and you formed Eden's Crush off the back of that yes and I didn't know either so I'm really glad that you've shared that story the idea of doing an audition in a city-wide blackout in a blackout and then having to pick yourself up and try again you keep trying and keep um I just yeah when you have you have to believe you have to have that vision and you just can't let go of it.

13:23Because if you could see it, if you could dream it, then it could happen. And so I just never let up. And then the dolls came along that audition. And what's cool is that I never imagined that's how I would get my first break. And I actually signed a solo deal the same day as I signed the dolls deal. Wow. So I'm just saying things come in different boxes, not when you expect them, right? Like for me, I'm very spiritual. So I like to say that God has bigger plans and a bigger imagination than we could ever. We actually limit ourselves with how we think. So sometimes we think like, okay, I want to go this way.

13:59And it's like, no, you're actually aligned and meant to go that way. And that's going to get you to go back that way. Does that make any sense? It makes total sense. And I'm a big believer of it as well. The things that haven't worked out for me personally, I strive to try and learn the meaning behind that. and the purpose that might be disguised within that struggle. Like things aren't happening. One of my favorite lines is, it's not happening to me, it's happening for me. I want to talk a little bit about your work ethic, because what listeners to this podcast might not appreciate is that you turned up with notes that you had made, pages and pages, yellow full-scat notes that you had made in preparation for this podcast.

14:41I'm so appreciative of that. And I recognize that quality in myself. And again, I think maybe a lot of women. Yeah, I can see that as you're like telling, reminding me of my own career and my track record. I'm like, wow, she knows more about myself than I do. But I think a lot of women or maybe marginalized people in some way feel that they need to over prepare in order to be able to show up, in order to be able not to be underestimated by mainstream culture. And I want to ask you a bit about that, but I also just want to go back to your childhood. how much do you think your work ethic is shaped by how you grew up because you didn't have a lot of money growing up so were you always aware of the need to work to make a living absolutely when you grow up not having any money and your family is struggling it's kind of embarrassing it's really embarrassing um then as you get older I thank god every day that I came from nothing because it's what made me.

15:44It's what shaped me. It didn't break me. You know, it made me. What doesn't break you makes you. And it's built me to who I am today. And I do have that very strong work ethic because of it, that insatiable work ethic. I think it runs in my blood as well, my Hawaiian, Ukrainian, Filipino blood. It runs in our blood. But I'm super grateful for it because I don't take anything for granted. and I always feel like I'm always striving for excellence and greatness. I think it could drive some of the people who work around me crazy because I'm like, it could always be better. I still tell Jamie, I can do better.

16:27I know I can do better. I just always want to strive for greatness and excellence. Otherwise, I feel like I'm not making it count and I'm wasting my time here of what I'm supposed to truly be doing. Does that manifest itself in your romantic relationship. I think so. I think sometimes it could be unhealthy in that way when not only in a romantic relationship, but also with the relationship with yourself where you work too much that you're not able to celebrate those wins and those victories and just truly be present and be happy and be in awe and enjoy those moments, you know? there was this quote I read that made me sad about I think one of your first parts that you got aged 14 was the lead in Alice in Wonderland and you had said I couldn't believe that I got this part because I was up against a blonde girl with blue eyes is that a feeling that has stayed with you that feeling of not looking the part or not being some way that someone else Well, I think that's what's so beautiful now of where we've progressed into this day and age.

17:43I'm playing Norma Desmond.

17:48People might have not. I think I saw Lea Salonga and I storied it the other day. It said three Filipinos are now leading on leading roles on the West End. It's never been like that in history. We've come a long way since then. Back then, yeah, that was unheard of. But my teacher, Miss Mateus, was so radical in the way that she thought, and she just defied, she broke all the rules and she didn't care. And she looked at me and she's like, that's Alice in Wonderland. And that was many moons ago. I mean, gosh, I'm 45 now. That was, what, 26 years ago. I mean, so kudos for her for being so forward-thinking and giving me that opportunity.

18:26But yes, the fact of the matter was, because back then it was like that. You know, I was like a little brownie. I didn't look like everybody else in Louisville, Kentucky growing up. But that's what the blessing was, is that it makes me so unique today. And at the time, what were your parents thinking of your ambition and your vision to be? They just let me go. They knew when I was like six years old and I heard the greatest love of all, Whitney Houston was like the voice of God to me. And I just, they knew that I had my own ambitions. I was always had this dream and vision and they just supported me.

19:07Like I said, we didn't come from much. So it's not like they're like, go and be a doctor or a lawyer. They're like, wow, you're taking the wheel. please do follow how to fail to get new episodes as they land on apple podcast spotify amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts please tell all your friends this is an elizabeth day and sony music entertainment original podcast thank you so much for listening rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door expertly cleaned and folded so you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you.

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