S18 MIDSEASON BONUS! Captain Sandy from Below Deck on surviving addiction, pirates - and reality TV

26:41But I had to make restitution. So I paid$5 a week for three years and I paid off that furniture. And it was something that I felt so freeing. And that was years ago when I didn't make a lot of money. All I could afford was$5 a week and I paid that furniture off. And to me, it's like those acts of being accountable for your actions is the part that people don't understand. That's the freedom and forgiveness. True forgiveness is freedom. Talk about building character. Yes, it wasn't me. I had a lot of help. Like I didn't come up with this on my own. It was those 12 steps. When you're at sea, how do you attend meetings?

27:25Do you do it over? Online. Now, yes. But before the internet was a thing. It was called Loaners Anonymous, AA Loaners Anonymous. And it was actually through chatting, like on text. Right. It was fascinating. And then wherever I would go, I would go to meetings. Even if it wasn't in my language, I knew they were talking about how to stay clean and help others. Because it's a choice you make every single day, isn't it? It's a choice you make every day. I live in Colorado. Everybody's on edibles, you know? It's like the majority of them. I know that that will lead me. Why would I take the risk? Why would I want to go back to that old life?

28:02I love how I feel. Every day I wake up, I honestly, this is how I wake up. I open the curtains. The curtains are open. And I just say, good morning, world. Like, I feel that way. Ask Leah. And then I'll do this chant. I feel good. I feel fine. I feel like this all the time. And I say it often. When we both had COVID, she's like, if you sing that song one more time, because I don't feel good. And I was like psyching myself up. Like, I don't want to be sick. So I feel good. I feel fine. And I also think it helps that self-talk. And I use this technique where if I'm trying to go to sleep and I have all these thoughts running through my head I go peace calm and I breathe in peace calm next thing you know I'm asleep it's like mantras yes very powerful totally right yeah I guarantee you if you say I feel good I feel fine I feel like this all the time you're gonna start feeling good okay and I use music as a big proponent to my happy yeah well you look incredible as well like you can see the happiness sort of radiating for it your eyes are sparkling you look you know like 30 years younger than you actually are.

29:08So it clearly works. Your second failure is that you failed to realize your potential at an early age. Yes. If I would have paid attention when I was 13, when I picked up my first drug, I would have lived a very different life between 13 and 25. Thankfully, I never hurt anyone else. That's the beautiful thing because I was a driver while using alcohol. Not great. And well, it was at 25 when I finally got it. So yes. Can you imagine what I could have done between those ages, like 13 to 25 in my life? I probably would have finished school, but I would have never discovered the maritime industry.

29:58So I don't think that I would go back and change it because it defined who I am today. I never thought I'd live to see 21. Wow. 13, very young. Yes. What was your first drug? Pot. Even though they say it's not the gateway drug, it was for me. And I'll never forget that my goal, as we used to sit around and get high, was to, I thought I would only live to 21. And I was going to move to Key West, live in flip-flops and a tank top and shorts for the rest of my life and smoke pot. That's my goal at 13 or 14. Not a great goal. what were you like at 13 apart from having this not great goal what was your personality fun just drifting and seeking I just wanted to change the way I felt I wasn't sure why I didn't have a bad childhood you know I wasn't sure why but addiction runs in my family it wasn't until I got clean that I learned the why because it's just it is a disease you know so I have that is your mother still alive?

31:03No, she passed away from alcoholism. I'm so sorry. Yes, many years ago. Thank you. How old were you? I was in Spain, actually, at a boat show on a boat. I was 35. Okay. It's probably a stupid question, but I wonder if it's a difficult thing when the person who's meant to look after you and you're meant to rely on so much is also the person who I imagine lets you down and leaves you with this legacy. Yes. You know, something happens psychologically where you start taking care of your parent. And in those moments, you think it's just your parent. Like you don't really analyze it. You just do it because they're struggling.

31:50And my mom was a great mom in the you know in the early years but she suffered I forgive her she didn't know her father had it you know like and her brother so addiction runs rampant in my family I'm one of the lucky ones do you have brothers and sisters oh yes and I have nieces that have passed away from addiction I have a nephew that passed away from addiction so it runs rampant in my family Sandy I'm so sorry What pain your family has gone through. Exactly. Yes. And so I think being on TV was meant to be for so many other reasons than just entertainment. What advice, if any, would you give a listener who is hearing you speak right now and either is struggling with addiction themselves or they have someone in their family and they don't know how to reach them through the addiction?

32:46I suggest, first and foremost, you're not alone. I'll say that you're not alone. I suggest calling for outside help. So interventions are needed in families. And that's where you're, you get your family members, you get someone from the 12 step program, and you get someone from the treatment center to all come and sit around that one family member and make sure they're clean at the time, and then have that conversation. and you can change their life. And if it isn't that way, then call for help. Have them placed in treatment on an order from a judge. Go to a judge. They will write an order. They will have them picked up, not taken to jail, but taken to a treatment center.

33:32That's possible. So call whatever the equivalent is to a helpline and ask for help. Is that what happened with you? So many times I had people try to intervene, but yes. And once I was taken to treatment, I knew there was another way to live. I just didn't, I wasn't ready. You know, I had, I was that person at 17, I was court ordered to treatment. And at 25, I finally got it. Okay. And the people who were doing the interventions with friends, family? Family. Okay. Always my family. Yes. They tried over and over. And you dropped out of high school at what age? I didn't drop out. They kicked me out.

34:08Oh, they kicked me out. Let's get that clear. Yeah. Did you mind? because I never give up no oh yeah did you mind or were you so no I was so in my addiction I didn't I was working already and washing boats you know I'd started doing that and I don't know you're like just you're survivors like you become a survivor I was a survivor now I don't have to survive I'm living that's the difference between addiction is surviving when you put down the drug or alcohol or whatever it is, gambling, then you become a person of mainstream society and you live. You're not just surviving, which is a beautiful thing.

34:51Have you ever suffered from imposter syndrome? No. What is that? That is the best answer I've ever had to that question. That is something where you feel that you don't deserve your space. So often if someone is, if they left school early or they didn't go to university or or they're in a very high-powered career, they might feel like everyone else knows the rules, I'm a fraud, I'm about to get found out. That's what imposter says. Oh, no, I don't. You know why? Here's why. Because when I was using, I never felt worthy to look at the sky. After I got clean, I could actually look up at the sky.

35:27It was such an odd thing. I never really thought about it, and I could never look at the sky. I never felt worthy. Once I became worthy because I was doing the next right thing in my life, I never thought I didn't belong here because I know the work I did to get to where I am. As long as you do the work, who cares what other people think? And then you got to start changing that thinking. And that's that, to me, those 12 steps. That is so profound and poignant that you didn't feel worthy to look at the sky and now you do. Yes. Can I ask if any of that shame was wrapped up wrongly with your sexual identity?

36:06to? I think the big part of the reason I started using was because I couldn't accept the sexuality because I came from a very homophobic family and I didn't feel like I could express myself, nor did I know I could. You know, it was weird. I can't explain it. But it wasn't until after I got sober that I could. I didn't, it didn't matter because I knew I was living a life with purpose and I was doing the next right thing. And you always know in your gut. I always say this to Leah, if it feels right, it is right. If it feels wrong, it is wrong. If you feel afraid, then assess that and think, okay, sometimes fear can be two things.

36:52It can be don't open that door or open that door. Like you know, and those are the risks, but I go with how I feel. Do you feel accepted now? Oh, yes. And then for those who don't, I'm sorry for them. Because I always said to Leah, if you're okay with who you are, others are more comfortable around you. If you're uncomfortable with you, they're going to be uncomfortable around you. So you create your environment. And it sounds like the maritime industry isn't accepting, albeit sexist in the same way that the rest of society is. But it feels like maybe it's the kind of industry that attracts people who have lived alternative kind of lives.

37:34I tell people, I think if they put the maritime industry in a whole different psychological bucket, we'd have our own diagnosis. Because we are from all parts of the world, from different walks of life, different nationalities, and we all end up in the same boat together. And you go, wow. And we leave our homes, our families, and we create a family. It's interesting. You know, when you rise above and you see how it works, you're going, wow, are they people who are drifters that end up together and find a purpose? Or did they? It's interesting. I still am baffled. Yeah. Literally in the same boat.

38:15So who do you keep in touch with from Below Deck Med? Do you have any regular WhatsApps? Yes. Bugsy, of course. Max from my first season. Oh, Bugsy. I love Bugsy. Yes. My first season people are really, because it was my first season. So Max was texting me earlier, Bugsy's doing something for me for the live show. And I keep in touch with Kate Chastain, although she's not for my season. Ben, Chef Ben, Chef Dave, the chef that you're getting ready to see on the season. Is this chef coming up a good chef? It's a great chef. Okay, good. Thank goodness. It's always so stressful when they're not very good.

38:49He's so cute, Jack. He's Jack. And we loved him. I always heard laughter come out of the galley. Like, when you hear that, I'm sure there's some drama there I just don't know about. Natalia, Kyle. Kyle? Yeah. Sorry, this will mean nothing to someone who doesn't watch Below Deck. Hayley from Below Deck 10. Oh, love Hayley. British, of course. Zee and Courtney. Oh, yes. Courtney, also another Brit. Yes. Malia? Malia, of course. You're good friends, aren't you? Yes. And you've been very inspirational to her also as a woman in the industry. Is she a captain yet? Because that's her goal. She has her, she could be a captain.

39:25Absolutely. She's just taking the long haul, which is on big boats. I, I've offered her many jobs on smaller boats. To me, I think small boats are the way to learn because you learn, you do every job and you learn every aspect. Malia's got her sights on the big ones. So it takes a little longer that way. Let's get onto your third and final failure, which is allowing the anchor to get the best of you. It always happens. Really? Okay. For the uninitiated among us, just tell us about the anchor process. So when you drop an anchor, you need to set the anchor where if the wind starts to blow 30 or 40 knots, that you won't drag anchor.

40:07Because usually we're anchored in anchorages around other boats because we all go to the same places. Let's use Capri. So we anchor off Marina Piccolo on the other side. Everybody's like, you could touch the boat. We're so close or can. So when the wind blows, you want to make sure your anchor holds. Oftentimes, it doesn't. I don't know why. Maybe it's sand, whatever. So you're resetting your anchor. The other component is sometimes they get tangled. So when you have a lot of wind, you drop two anchors. But when the wind drops, the boat spins on anchor. It just does. That's how it works. And then it starts to tangle.

40:42Sometimes you drop your anchor and it says anchor here. But someone has dragged a town cable over to your position. next thing you know you're lifting up the town cable for the village of Saint-Tropez. You're like, put it back in the water because that's a big fine. So you've got to figure out a way to get the town cable off your anchor. What's the town cable? Is that the electricity? The town cable is the electricity to the town. In the water? Yes, of course. They run the cables in the water. I guess you'd have to, wouldn't you? It just seems kind of intuitive. But they're wrapped in lots of...

41:11Yes. I'm a terrible scientist. I've no clue about science. They run cables in the water. Okay. Yes. So it's time cable. Yeah, you need to be careful of that. Down in the water, put it back, put it back. So, and then the anchor tangles. Can take you hours, as you can see. Yes. It took nine hours to untangle that chain. And if you can't enter a port without your anchors, right? So you can't leave two anchors. You have to enter the port with at least one anchor. It's always something with the anchor. Or you can't haul the anchor because the windlass isn't working anymore. The thing that actually hauls it out of the water.

41:49you're like then you try to tie a line on it put it on the other windlass and the line breaks you're like okay we're leaving the anchor there's a better system why is there not a better system well there is but we anchor so often the equipment is bound to fail so on an anchor there's a claw that holds the chain when you're at sea so it's literally a claw if they don't tighten the top part of the windlass, which spins, which is called the clutch and the brake, tight, that can free flow. If the claw isn't on, it free flows all the way out. I'm crossing in Croatia from VAR or VIZ to mainland. All of a sudden, I hear what I sound like I run over a boat.

42:31It was like the loudest noise, the chain, the entire chain came out. And our anchor was, and I was doing 17 knots. and I'm thinking oh my god is that gonna get the props and and then the next thing you know the crew member's like it was the anchor and they had to release it so we left it in the sea and they're very expensive how expensive 50 ,000 70 ,000 so then do you get a new anchor and you get a new anchor so this is one of my seasons okay so I left an anchor in Croatia we go to Antibes it was a trip from hell we go to Antibes drop the anchor I send the crew under the boat to check the running gear.

43:12I'm like, how's this? How's that? He goes, I got some good news and some bad news. So he comes up, he goes, well, the bow thrusters are still there, but we don't have an anchor. So I said, we are anchorless. We were actually, the only thing holding us was the chain. I swear someone stole our anchor. I go, how did the anchor come off? So we left our anchor. Now we don't have an anchor. And now I got to go into a port where you need an anchor. So we have a spare anchor so we had to take the spare anchor out it was like a spare tire you need to get on the phone to the provisioner and say i need to do your anchor we had to go to a shipyard and get hauled out of the water and have it all checked is this something that affects every captain or do you think it's just specifically every captain goes through this huh because it's mechanical yeah one thing the two things you use the most are the engines and the anchors yes They're bound to fail.

44:04And Below Deck, Sailing Yacht had a really tough season because their engine was failing and Colin had to sort it out with like sticky tape, basically, didn't he? Yes. So when we see those scenes in Below Deck and it's coming to a docking and there's dramatic music and we haven't got the fenders out and there's a clunking sound and then the episode ends and there's a big cliffhanger and then it opens the next episode, that genuinely happens and it's genuinely scary and stressful. Absolutely. It's not just made for TV? No. But they know when to cut for a commercial or for the next season. This season, there's a few of those.

44:40They're like, that's a commercial. Okay. That's a next episode. What's the most stressful situation you've ever been in on a yacht? I would just say the fire in the Red Sea. Yes, tell us about that. You know, when you are transiting the Red Sea and other parts of pirate-infested waters, you're very aware of what's going on around you. You're hyper aware. When you have a fire and then you're drifting, the threat of pirates coming to you, you know they're on their way because they heard you call for help. Who's going to arrive first? Help or the pirate? Like we were rescued by a warship. Thankfully, that warship went like 60 something knots an hour.

45:19And was this a super yacht that you were captaining, which had clients on board? We didn't have clients. We had crew. I had 13. And it was mechanical. and then we tried to repair it. And then hydraulic oil ignites at a certain temperature. And that's what happened. It was like a big boom out the side of our boat. And I had a crew member try to jump overboard. I had a British chief stew who was the best personality, Patricia Elliott, awesome human being. And she was always laughing. So I said, the one person who tried to jump overboard, I grabbed her and I said, Patricia, plot our position. So because I teach everyone how to plot every crew member.

46:00So she did. She goes, Sandy, can you believe we're floating in shock shoal? And I was like, I looked at the crew member that's trying to jump overboard. I go, aren't you glad you didn't jump overboard? Shark shoal, like a bunch of sharks, like underneath our boat. So interesting. And you find the humor inside the tragedy. But at the same time, as a captain, you're constantly thinking about who's going to arrive first the warship or the pirates so the warship rescued us how long were you drifting about four hours okay it took them to get to us but you could see the the other boats you knew they were pirates you could see through the binoculars and I had security on the boat who was getting intel from his shore support and he kept telling me that I go why are you I don't need to hear this when they're off the bow of the boat tell me the pirates are here but until then I don't need to know they're coming because it was already stressful enough and you were having to stay calm for the crew visibly yes and we were laughing i mean if you don't cry you're gonna laugh but we were all laughing and then by the time we got towed into hodidah yemen was in a civil war at the time you're like great now i'm like stationed in the place where i don't know so we had rocket launchers next to our boat protecting us and security and we were there 13 days wow is that the closest you think that you've ever come to death yes or hostage being held hostage yes I mean I've had scary moments at sea you hope the boat still floats I've been hit by a water spout that knocked a boat on its side those moments you're like please come up because every boat has a roll period from the time it's center over and back up right so you know the roll period is it eight seconds is it 10 seconds so you start counting 1001 1002 as a captain 1003 and when you get close to your roll period if it goes past those seconds it's not coming back up unless a wave picks it back up so you've been in that kind of situation oh yes i've counted many times have you watched the movie titanic yes do you like it or is it like but you know the one that i think was more scary it was perfect storm oh terrifying yeah but you know i ran a boat called white star did you have you seen that was the boat that caught on fire was called white star in the red sea have you seen captain phillips yes that movie i had a when i watched captain phillips i actually had ptsd yes i started shaking i remember my friend tammy goes are you okay and i was like i'm not it was strange because I had never sought therapy after that or counseling.

48:42And the one thing that I regret that I didn't do was I didn't check on my crew after we went through that experience. I didn't call them and say, how are you? Nor did the management company call me and say, how are you? I think it was a big learning for all of us. Yeah. This is probably a really intrusive question and you don't have to answer, but do you have therapy now? I go to therapy as often as possible. Great. Are you kidding me? Because you seem very sorted. But it must be a lot of pressure to carry. Yes. You know, honestly, I call my therapist when I'm in a situation where I'm struggling.

49:17I have a lot of couch time through the years of my 34 years of sobriety. I don't have all the answers. So, yes, I seek outside help when needed. in one of the things that I'm fascinated in asking you about is about the nature of reality television I am a huge reality tv fan I think that it teaches us so much about what it is to be human and that's as a viewer but I'm very intrigued as someone who's in it you obviously are aware who you are Sandra Yawn but then there's also Captain Sandy who is who we see as a viewer and who production want to protect. How does that affect your state of mind about who you are?

50:01I think the question is my relationships. Okay. Okay, because sometimes my family will say, you're not the captain here, right? So how do I turn it off? Because when you're in charge, I'm a different person. I can't explain it, but I'm not aware of it. Leo will say to me, don't be my captain. Be my Sandy. And then she goes, that's my Sandy. How do you transition from captain to sand, like being me? So I hope I'm doing it now. I won't know because I'm just so used to living that role as an authority figure that I need to be able to know that I don't have to be in charge or everything doesn't have to be perfect.

50:49That's my struggle. Do you watch yourself back? Yes. What's that experience like? I wish I was kinder. I wish I paused longer. I wish I would have approached that person differently. And I think now this season, I want to be more patient. Maybe I should have fired that person earlier and trusted the chief. You know, like I should have trusted the chief Stu more. Yeah. But I'm a person who doesn't give up on people. And sometimes you just have to say, okay, I have to let you go. because if someone gave up on me, I don't know if I would be where I am today. So I use that. And I think when you invest in people like that, they don't want to let you down.

51:34You inspire them to want to change because they want to do better because they see how much you care and how much you're invested in them. And so looking back, I just think, maybe I should have fired them earlier. But it's like you're learning from your failures. It's basically the entire premise of this podcast. And if I might, just before we draw this to a close, I think you're very good at spotting when someone on the team is spreading a bad atmosphere. And it's not necessarily that they are doing anything that is so obviously wrong, but there's a toxicity there that is so negative for the rest of the team.

52:09And I've noticed you do that a couple of times and you always suss it out and you get rid of the person that I know I would be deeply intimidated and scared by and find really difficult to handle. I think you're very good at that, at sussing people out, sussing their energies out. Yeah, because I think if you're paying attention, because I do, although I'm not always in the space, I hear. The boats, I wish they were soundproof because some things I don't want to hear. but the reality is I hear and I see the reactions of other crew and I know as a leader that I have to pay attention and when you see that because it does affect the atmosphere on the boat you want people to have that joy in what they do to serve others and if you have that one person you just have to let them go.

52:55If I were to apply for a job on your crew what position would you put me in? are you kidding me you'd be the what is that role called not you stupid you would be the person who greets everybody and make sure they're having a great time i love you that's that's i'll be the anchor wrangler i love that the anchor wrangler that's a great position i think we need to you need someone yes i'm happy to come next season i love that anchor wrangler i love that Okay, you can have it. And finally, I've loved this chat so much. Thank you for making time. Do you like being Captain Sandy? Do you like it when people recognize you on the street?

53:37Yes. Well, let me twofold, okay? In the beginning, it was fun. It was cool. Now it's, I feel when people are respectful in their approach to me, yes. But some people are just not respectful. Reality TV is very different than from a person acting. When you're an actor, they know you're acting. When you're on reality TV, they feel like they've known you for years. They come in for the hug. They come in for the kiss. They just come in. There are no boundaries. It's like you've been friends for years. It's those moments where I'm just like, slow down. I had a guy chase me on the street the other day.

54:13It freaked me out. I'm like, he goes, are you that? You know, and he chased me. And I just said, yes, hi. You know, because I didn't know. Because sometimes you think, what's going to happen? Because it can be quite scary. At the same time, I always want to be graceful and gracious and engage. But it's all about the approach. So yes, but also slow the roll when you're coming towards me. Yes, exactly. You don't actually know Sandy from way back when. You have shown us all the power of grace today. Thank you so, so much for coming on my podcast. And I will see you for the anchor wrangling next season.

54:53Thank you. Thanks for having me. You're awesome.

55:02If you enjoyed this episode of How to Fail with Elizabeth Day, I would so appreciate it if you could rate, review and subscribe. Apparently, it helps other people know that we exist.