Sophie Habboo - I Wish I Had More Boundaries

0:00I knew I was obviously doing and I was like, ah! He just thought I was being like really frisky on holiday. He was like, this is great! I actually then did go into trying to do a nine-to-five job. What was that? To this day, I still don't even know what the job was. Do you feel good enough? Hello and welcome to How To Fail with me, Elizabeth Day. This is the podcast that believes the true test of character is not the failure itself, but in how we respond to it. Before we get started on this conversation, please do remember to like, follow and subscribe so that you never miss a single episode.

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2:07Admin nights are social gatherings for getting through your to-do list. So get ready for a night of fun, finding deductions, and filing taxes with TaxAct, where you can file your federal and state return for just$49 through April 8. Let's get together and get them over with. Visit taxact.com slash admin dash night for details. My guest today is Sophie Haboo, podcaster, model, entrepreneur, and reality TV star. After a childhood in Leamington Spa, boarding school and a media and communications degree at Newcastle University, she found fame on Made in Chelsea, E4's structured reality show following the lives of affluent 20-something Londoners.

2:53Her boo initially struggled with the attention it brought her, but became a regular, crossing paths with her fellow castmate Jamie Leng in 2017. The two began dating and then launched a media empire. Their podcast, Nearly Words, was an instant hit and was rebranded as Newly Words when they got married in 2023. Fans of the show love the couple's hilarious and authentic repartee. Whether it's arguing over handjobs being underrated or having more serious conversations about anxiety and toxic masculinity. Habu now runs the hugely successful Jam Pop podcast production company with her husband, and the two served as executive producers on Raising Chelsea, a new three-part Disney Plus documentary following the couple as they face the messy, scary and comic reality of becoming parents for the first time.

3:50And yet, for someone who has publicly shared so much of her life, such focus still doesn't feel entirely comfortable. We always have this struggle in our relationship, Haboo says. Jamie would want to share every single thing. And I find that a little bit scary. With this TV show, I realised that it wasn't going to work unless we showed everything. Sophie Haboo, welcome to How to Fail. Oh my goodness, what an intro! I'm so happy to have you sitting opposite me. I'm thrilled. for multiple reasons. But one of them is, I'm really honoured that How to Fail is your first ever solo podcast interview.

4:32I've been so nervous. I've been calling everyone. I'm like, I need to prep. Do I come in with notes? Oh, Sophie. Do people come in with notes? One person came in with notes. I think it was Gina Davis. It's a bit weird. Well, interestingly, you and she shared something in common and it pertains to one of your failures. So we'll come on to that. Please don't be nervous. I lapped up every single second of Raising Chelsea Have you watched it? I've watched it all Sophie I've done my research Oh my goodness I need to know everything I think you really shine in Raising Chelsea and I also think alongside you and Jamie the breakout star are the parents Penny's got some absolute wild amazing one-liners Yes Penny is Jamie's mother and at one point she says that she left him in a pram in the garden for several hours and to train him out of crying.

5:24Yeah, yeah. Which she tells me to do regularly with Ziggy. And I'm like, politely decline? I'm not going to do that. So funny. It was also lovely to see your parents. And your surname, Habu, has Iraqi heritage. Is that right? Yes, my dad's Arabic, yeah. How interesting. Yes. Have you ever been to Iraq? Is that a weird question? No, I haven't been. It's such a shame because my dad's family moved, well most of them moved to Michigan when he was younger and then his father moved to England so my dad's never grown up I mean he doesn't speak Arabic so we don't it's very much in like we eat Arabic food and stuff but we don't you know I don't have much of that culture within me which is a shame I'd love to sort of be more cultured what's your favorite Arabic food stuff oh um I love all the standard baba ganoush my mum makes this incredible rice dish with like minced lamb and weirdly when she met my dad his father made it and so it was a very family thing we all sort of ate it it's delicious I can't remember the name but it's so good what that shows is how important family is to you and that's something that came across loud and clear throughout raising Chelsea as well that this is something it feels like you've always longed for to be a mother I from a really young age was like all I want to do is you know have babies and have a family so I feel really lucky that I'm in the position I am now.

6:52You say in the show that motherhood is everything you dreamed of and more. Does it still feel like that? I should actually start by saying that I am so sleep deprived of the moment. He's four months and he's teething and sleep regression so if I'm not making any sense to you and the listeners I'm so sorry. I do feel like my brain is like not quite gone back to normal since becoming a mother but no in answer to your question it's one of the hardest things I've ever done if not the hardest things I've ever done and I'm only four months in but yeah the love is is mad. Thank you for saying that about your fears that you're not making sense because you from my side you are incredibly eloquent you're making total sense but I think very often there are diminishing terms applied to the experience of pregnancy and birth.

7:43So baby brain is kind of one of them. But actually there is a serious underlying issue, which is all of these hormonal shifts and the brain fog. You know, you're tired, your brain's changing, the hormones are real. You know, if you're breastfeeding or you're stopping breastfeeding, all of it, it's a shift and it is just an adjustment. And so, yeah, I don't feel as, I wouldn't say I've ever been quick and I've always got mumbled up with my words, but I'm more so now. like I'm a little bit like woo is it just air up there at the moment no well that's so interesting that you perceive yourself like that and maybe it is because you think differently so that's really interesting and we'll elaborate on that later Ziggy is called Ziggy because you went on holiday to a beautiful place called Ziggy Bay lovely place after Jamie had run those bloody ultra marathons I know I got him when he was vulnerable I was like now is my time I didn't even tell him didn't even tell him you didn't tell him that you were going on holiday no I no I was just like blindfold off we go um no I didn't tell him that what I I was I knew I was obviously okay and I was like ah he just thought I was being like really frisky on holiday he was like this is great but we as a nation felt like we ran alongside Jamie as he was running those marathons it was an extraordinary thing to witness because he wore his emotions and his pain so publicly it was something so beautiful about it and I remember texting him and just getting these texts back saying I'm in hell I just don't think I can do it like it was real that the amount that he was going through what was that like for you Sophie it was so intense that truthfully Jamie he actually didn't want me to come up so i arrived on like day three but he didn't want me to come up he wanted to put his head down like get involved he just needed to get in the moment but when i saw the videos and the clips and i spoke to him on facetime i was like he's not in a good way and and obviously everyone was so supportive and it was you know it was crazy looking back at it it's a wild time everyone was rooting i mean people are out on the streets like it was mad but it's just so proud it was crazy it's so proud so brave I didn't expect any of it I don't think he expected any of it I don't think he thought he would sort of have that emotional breakdown or be that vulnerable he he was just running you know for comic relief and he was going to do this challenge for BBC but actually it was so much more and I think it I actually think it's really changed him as a person has it yeah I definitely has it changed your relationship yes Yes, it has.

10:24I think over the years since I've been with Jamie, he's obviously very openly spoken about his anxiety and all these, you know, different mental health hurdles that he's had to overcome. And I think throughout our relationship, he's just got to understand or become more vulnerable or become more OK or accepting with himself. And with doing that, it's just made us grow.

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11:32And you can manage everything, inventory, payments, analytics, without juggling 10 different tabs. Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify, and start hearing. Sign up for your£1 per month trial today at shopify.co.uk slash fail. That's shopify.co.uk slash fail. This episode is brought to you by Fandango. People say fans are too distracted these days, but the truth is, when a great movie hits the screen, you show up. You stay glued, invested, part of the story. And without fans like you, there'd be no cinema magic, No shared moments. So head to Fandango.com to get tickets, stream, or rent or buy top movies and series.

12:18Fandango loves fans. I'm Craig Melvin. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. I've always been a glass half full kind of guy. And now I'm talking to some people who look at the world that way too. Some really fascinating folks who share their defining moments, their triumphs, their challenges. Their stories are funny and quite candid. So I hope you'll join me each week. And who knows, you might just come away with your own glass half full. Search glass half full with Craig Kelvin from today on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. OK, so your first failure is your failure to have boundaries. I want to stress that my family are amazing and I was so lucky.

13:00My parents were really liberal. And actually, it sounds a really weird thing to say, but, you know, my dad almost had no boundaries. Like, whatever you want to do, you can do. I wasn't often told no. My sister was always sort of the academic one. She was amazing at school and I was sort of the theatrical entertainer, like crazy. Oh my goodness, Sophie's crazy. She has all these weird sayings that she says, like Sophie-isms they used to call it. We had this very liberal life and we were always encouraged to do anything, but never really given the structure to help with it. And I hope if my parents are listening to this, my childhood was incredible.

13:38I'm so lucky but I went to uni and I did media and communications and I did well but I never identified you know I got a 2-1 but I never identified as someone who was academic I never identified as someone who was going to go into a normal 9-5 like I was always going to become an actor that's what my dad told me I was going to do I thought I would just walk onto a set and be cast a role so I went to a acting class and I was very humbled very quickly like everyone there I had been doing it since they were like eight. They had done auditions. They had done training. They had been rejected. And I was just there.

14:16And they were like, so what have you done? I've been in my school plays in my tiny little girl school, which has 20 people in my year. Like I was very much like a big fish in a small pond. And suddenly coming into this, I was like, this is not going to be as easy as I think it's going to be. So I quit acting class. and I was like that I mean there's no way I can do that I realized how hard it would be to get into that industry I actually then did go into trying to do a nine-to-five job what was that to this day I still don't even know what the job was I had to sit in a room and I had to answer calls and if they wanted to go to like you know if they wanted to do something I'd have to put them on to like a switchboard it was like a switchboard but of course I didn't listen to when they were telling me what I had to do.

15:05I hope it wasn't like a 999 operator.

15:10I promise you guys it wasn't. It wasn't. But I essentially, every time they called, I was like, yeah, I got it. Easy. Sounds a breeze. When they'd call me, they'd say, oh, this is what I want to do. And I'd look at the keypad. I'd be like overwhelmed. So I'd hang up the phone every time. I did it for eight hours. I just hung up every time. And so I was leaving that day. This is day one of my job. and I was leaving, I was about to get on the tube and I got a call, I picked up and I was like, it was my manager. She said, I'm really sorry, we don't want you to come back tomorrow. So I lasted one day.

15:43I mean, it's just horrendous. So at that point I was like, hmm, don't think nine to five, like this office job's for me. And again, I'd always sort of been pigeonholed as like not academic. I need to do something different in the entertainment world. And luckily, Maiden Chelsea came along and obviously I know people have the preconceptions about Made in Chelsea and you know it's reality TV and it's a bunch of posh 20 year olds I love it still watch it age 47 how good is it now it's uh do you mean that as in like isn't it great or do you mean it's amazing now do you oh I think your era was the best era but I'm still really enjoying it I'm thrilled that you say that oh my gosh 100 % but I think maybe it's because I'm so much older I know I really can't identify Yes.

16:32Anyway, sorry. Sorry. Okay. But you're amongst friends here. I love it. I love it. I still watch it every night. Jamie's like, please, can you turn off? It gives me anxiety. I'm so happy you still watch it. Jazz and Jules. I love them. Yes. I love them. I'm rooting for them as just like the greatest best friends. Anyway, we digress. So I went on to Made in Chelsea and, you know, it felt like an easy option. It was in the entertainment world. It's what my dad and my family had always said that, you know, that's what I should be doing. Sorry, I do want to just stress that my parents didn't like push me to do anything.

17:08They are amazing. Yes, that's coming across loud and clear. It really is. Your parents are amazing, were amazing. And they come across like that on the show as well. Yes, yeah. And well, yes, that is totally, just let me set your mind at ease there. Just talk more than they'll be listening. I mean, that's Sophie. um and I went and I did Made in Chelsea and obviously Made in Chelsea is Made in Chelsea and and you know I've met Jamie and I I now do podcasting and all of these amazing opportunities have you know and now I'm doing Raising Chelsea and so I'm so grateful for that but I do a failure of mine is I wish I set myself those boundaries to have even tried I just I just copped at the I think you're being really hard on yourself.

17:51And I think the thing that it's reminding me of is a very early interview I did on How to Fail with Dolly Alderton, who actually also started out her career on Made in Chelsea. And she was talking about her parents and how much they love her and how much they believed and still believe that she is capable of anything. Whether she wants to be prime minister or a nuclear scientist or the incredible screenwriter and author that she is. they just loved her so much which is the primary thing that a parent should do and her point was that that was so wonderful but it equips you quite badly for the harsh realities of the real world outside of your front door and I wonder if you relate to that like actually at home it was sort of wonderful to be in this boundaryless bubble of parental love but was it when you confronted the real world that that was trickier yeah massively like I remember core memories of my my parents sort of saying to you know their friends and I was so little but I was just listening as you do and it's so interesting looking back at that at how much we absorb when we're younger I remember them saying Sophie's definitely going to be on stage one day you know things like that yes and when I went to the audition and I could instantly see that when I was doing the audition I could instantly see they were like you're rubbish or they were just like no you know and I I didn't I wasn't equipped for that I was like what surely you're gonna cast me yes which you know if I'd had that sort of like it's gonna be tough you've got to be resilient you're gonna have rejection it's a really hard industry maybe I would have been more equipped to have have I would have had more tenacity maybe I also think that the labels we give ourselves or society gives us or our families give us the one who's going to be on stage the one who's not academic in a way whilst they can be very loving and very supportive they also make you feel like a failure if you don't live up to that but it's ultimately someone else's label yeah it's so true It's true.

20:00It's funny because I do believe that I always wanted to be in entertainment in some way. But it's funny, like so many people, you know, grew up thinking, I want to be a doctor or I want to be a ballet dancer. I want to be a vet. And it's like, did we think that? At what stage did we think that? Or did somebody else, you know, were we pigeonholed to that? Exactly. Now, very often people who struggle with boundaries, and I count myself in this category, become people pleasers to an extreme that means that they forget their own needs in the mix of trying to please others. Did you have that experience?

20:38yes massively i think not so much in my early days but particularly when jamie and i you know we started the podcast we i really lost the sense of boundaries then and i was very you know i'm married to somebody who is literally the king of no boundaries he is has no boundaries he's like cameras follow me in while i go to the loo like there's no boundaries and i think actually marrying him or even being in a relationship with him really made me realize how much I need boundaries you know he's a he's a thorough extrovert he thrives and is energized by socializing entertaining being with people 24 7 I'm definitely introvert extrovert and I really recharge by having those moments to myself and so I think in the early stages of our relationship and particularly when we first started the podcast I was I was you know and he will say this too I was sort of dragged along with him I don't know how he survives with the amount of stuff he does and I was very much like whoa I'm not surviving I was really burnt out really exhausted and I was just saying yes to everything because you didn't want to let him down yeah because I didn't want to let him down but also because I didn't know myself I didn't know how I recharged I didn't know what my boundaries were.

22:01I just thought, these are all amazing opportunities. I surely want to be doing them. And now I know myself more. Like, yes, I can do them, but I need to have that downtime. I need to have a moment of myself to breathe. Like, I can't, I'm not as high energy as him.

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25:29Hit subscribe on Apple podcasts or head to getthebinge.com. How did you get to know yourself? Well, it's still getting to know myself, Elizabeth. It's a long old process. Me too. um when we got engaged and started the wedding process i always said to jamie and he'll say this as well and i i love my husband so much and he's amazing so i don't want to sound like i'm bashing him either um but he he always wanted this huge big white wedding loads of people he you know he wanted to walk down the aisle himself in a white suit and i said to him straight away I want to get married with 20 people with my feet in the sand I didn't want you know I don't like birthday parties I it's funny because I obviously do the podcast and when I'm in the work environment I I can do it but in my private time I'm actually quite a private person I don't love being the center of attention and when we were getting married he was very much like this is the big white wedding this is what everyone dreams of and everyone was saying it to me it wasn't just him you know everyone god you're living the dream and we've grown up thinking that women want this big white wedding and we want to have our moment but I I was incredibly overwhelmed I found it really overwhelming which then caused me to have massive anxiety and obviously the podcast you know we're so lucky that so many people were so interested interested in it but it became like a big spectacle weirdly and that you know made me have imposter syndrome and I just I was really struggling with massive overwhelm and anxiety I was looking around thinking everyone is so excited for me everyone is like behind us everyone's rooting for us I'm gonna have this incredible wedding of people's dreams like the fairy tale wedding why why am I not able to cope with this And my anxiety got so bad that I went and spoke to a therapist and they said, I think we need to get you tested for ADHD.

27:32Have you ever been tested for it? And then behold, I have ADHD. And I know it's I know everyone talks about ADHD and I know it's, you know, it's a bit of a buzzword at the moment. But having gone through what I've gone through and everyone handles it differently, like now I know I have ADHD. it does make a lot of sense and it is really tough when you know to manage if you do have it and you've been diagnosed with it it is it is hard when you've got it and so yeah I found the wedding and all of the chaos and just all of it incredibly overwhelming and yeah it was it was like a crazy time and that is actually one of my failures because had I been diagnosed with ADHD earlier I would have been able to understand and have more compassion for myself.

28:22And it's really sad for me to look back at our wedding because it was, you know, in so many ways, the best day of my life. And I should have enjoyed it so much. But I was just really struggling and I didn't cope as well as I could have done because I didn't know what was wrong with me. Thank you so much for opening up about that. And we will come on to your ADHD next because, as you say, it is your second failure, the late diagnosis of it. I think so many people relate and do relate when you take the risk of opening up about these things that you feel are uniquely your own. You described it as having imposter syndrome about your own wedding.

29:01And actually, that's why your podcasting is so great, because you say the things that so many other people are secretly feeling. And that is the antidote to shame is sharing. So thank you for opening up. I wonder if I could ask you potentially a tricky question in the run up to the wedding how bad did it get did you think at any point I'm gonna have to call this off I can't cope weirdly I think the fact that I didn't think that was an option was what caused the anxiety to spiral I just felt like I was I held it all in because I was so confused why I couldn't cope with this you know as I said I'd always wanted to be in entertainment I wanted to be on stage I wanted to be an actor like why could I not cope with all of this attention or all of the you know planning a wedding we did a live show a month before our wedding you know all of those things I couldn't understand why I wasn't managing so I held it all in because I was so embarrassed I thought there was something wrong with me and I think the fact I didn't speak about it and I didn't say I'm actually really struggling with this I'm actually feeling really anxious about this I actually don't want this enormous 250 people wedding I want to just go away and get married on a beach with bare feet the fact I didn't say those things made me worse yes looking back on your wedding day now how do you feel about it when you look at photos I feel I feel sad looking back at it because I can see that I was just struggling yeah I was so overwhelmed I was I was really burnt out I was just like whoa what is going on um so I have compassion looking back on it now but like that's only been since you know I got diagnosed I've understood it I've unpacked it you know I had to I did a lot of work on myself after my wedding because I again it was like a shock I couldn't understand what I was feeling yes I'm not suggesting that you do this for a minute but I was married before and I had the conventional white wedding 80 to 100 people with my ex-husband and I felt not as happy as I thought I should have felt and obviously I was marrying the wrong person but also there was a degree of overwhelm I can completely relate to and when I got married to Justin my now husband it was during the pandemic and it was literally him and me two registrars my best friend and her then husband and it was the most romantic thing ever and I think you and Jamie should renew your vows that's what I think you should do honestly I really do too yes I think about it all the time do you I've said it to him but then he's like yeah yeah we'll make it into a huge thing I don't want cameras there Jamie that's the point I want my feet in the sand I want Sophie's feet in the sand okay um thank you so much for talking about that let's talk about your diagnosis for ADHD so how old were you when you got this diagnosis so I was 28 it was just after my wedding that I went and got diagnosed and I was like oh and when we unpacked it and I learned about it I was like this makes so much sense like I've always struggled like regulating my emotions severe overwhelm I you know Jamie speaks about having ADHD which is crazy having two people married who both have quite severe ADHD and we have quite different types of it interesting his is like you know hyperactive he's energy on the go he's hyper fixation mine is like overwhelm I could have a to-do list that's three pages long and I would just stare at it and end up doing the complete opposite um so yeah I got diagnosed when I was 28 just after the wedding and I it just it just made everything like oh I get it now and it made me able to look at me and be like I feel so you know I have compassion yes and how does it make sense of some of the things that you experienced so you mentioned in your email to me that idea of feeling a feeling um almost embarrassed that you didn't progress academically the way that you could have done is that part of how you experience adhd i actually did quite well like i did yeah i was about to say hello i got all a's and a stars my gcse c is an a levels but again i just i was able to hyperfixate and revise but in lessons I was never very good with vocabulary I always got my words muddled up and I would like stumble or talk really quickly and I still do it now and weirdly our podcast people seem to find that really funny but that's which is so lovely because it's always been something that I was quite insecure about you know like I hate playing board games like if someone puts a board game I actually get in a mood I'm like I hate you for suggesting that we should play a board game because I will not understand it I won't understand the instructions because my brain can't concentrate on what they're telling me yes I is something that I'm insecure of like doing something like this it's it's weirdly something that I become nervous about because I just sometimes struggle to get the words out and it's because like my brain's just like I don't have ADHD but I have that thing of like I can't think what word to use next and also Elizabeth, you are so elegant.

34:13I promise you. That was so lovely of you. You're the opposite of that. Thank you. But I feel that about you. And I just want you to know that. Even though it might feel sort of chaotic and overwhelming in your head, you don't come across like that ever. Wow, really? Yes. Are you sure? I'm positive. I mean, I don't see you every night or wake up with you every morning. Sorry, Jamie. But my experience of you having listened to your podcast and watched you on TV and now meeting you again now and like anytime I've met you in the past, I just, I really would love to release you from that sense of imposter life.

34:50That's so nice to hear. Yeah, of course. When we started this podcast and you said, does anyone ever bring notes? The person that I thought of was Gina Davis, the actress, and she came on the podcast and she was diagnosed with ADHD in later life as well. Me and her. And the other person was Nicole Scherzinger. I love. There we go. I want to hear all about that. I was listening to that straight away. And what did they needed the notes because they couldn't think of the things to say? Because I was fearful. I was like, I might come into this and then it's all just out. Yes. And I don't know what Nicole Scherzinger, why she was bringing notes.

35:24In fact, I find it's like a real compliment if someone has really thought that much about it. But I think, yes, I think it's that thing of wanting to communicate the truth of yourself and potentially being fearful that you're not going to do a good enough job. Yeah, it's like when you walk out a room and you're like, oh my God, I don't want to say all of those things. You're in an argument and you leave that finished argument. You're like, I should go into an argument with notes because I always walk out of it. And I'm like, I could have won that argument, but I forgot everything that I wanted to say.

35:54I feel like you win most arguments with Jamie though. Yeah, I do. Rob rings around him. What am I talking about? Talking about Jamie and ADHD and the fact that he lives with it too. how easy have you found it to open up to Jamie about the things that you were feeling and are feeling because I imagine in the run-up to the wedding that was probably quite tricky it was really tricky and he he will say this openly like he couldn't understand it he kept saying what are you talking about this is amazing you know it's all he'd ever wanted um which obviously sadly like just made me feel even more you know upset and confused and isolated isolated but now we've we've both sort of gone to therapy we've spoken about it before we've done couples therapy which we love and he got diagnosed with the same doctor that diagnosed me after me so he was able to really understand about adhd and how it shows up with people differently and he can really see it now we we've we've really understood each other more and we've worked on ourselves together and separately and to be able to communicate more and understand it because it is confusing and everyone feels things differently and like he doesn't understand a lot of the way I feel like I don't understand a lot of the way he feels yes so you go to a therapist but you also I read somewhere go to a psychic once a year we love a psychic Jamie actually was doing secret psychic sessions without telling me like he became really obsessed with the psychic he was doing monthly it was like a therapy he was monthly psychic sessions wow i've always gone to psychics both my parents went to psychics so even as a little girl i used to go and like sit in the room and my mum would go to the psychic she lived in this little tiny house and she smoked honestly she chain smoked and the house was like my eyes would sting going into there and i used to sit in her living like the waiting room while my mom would have psychic readings i love them your final failure is fear of failure as a mother tell me about this like when did this fear start has it been ever present really weirdly it started without knowing when i got diagnosed with adhd i said to him how have i been how have i gone my whole life without getting diagnosed and he said a lot of women get diagnosed later in life particularly new mums and I said really why and he said um they come in they really struggle becoming new parents they feel they find it so overwhelming and they get recommended to come and and you know and they've been going their whole lives with undiagnosed ADHD and once they know that they can sort of use the tools to help them be present with their children and don't become so overwhelmed and that even though I only I got diagnosed when I was 28 and I wasn't thinking about children then I was so far off it it really stuck in my mind so when I became pregnant I kept thinking in my head you know it was just a thought in the back of my head like you're really gonna struggle you're really gonna struggle um and I think that's why I did I was anxious my whole pregnancy which god it really comes off in the show oh but again it's so relatable I think and moving it's whether you've been told that or not I think when you're pregnant for the first time, it's so many unknowns.

39:16You don't, you know, and you're responsible for this little human growing inside you. I mean, like everything, I drank a coffee and I'd be like, should I have drank a coffee, you know? But I think that's where the fear came from. And of course, it's still with me all the time. I try and be as present as I can be. And I mean, I will say I do. I'm really pleasantly surprised. I do feel like Ziggy is my calm. And I actually, when I'm with him, I don't really think about anything else. I'm really able to be present with him and just, you know, he keeps me. I feel my calmness when I'm with him, which is so lovely.