Tom Ellis - Fatherhood, Surrogacy and Years of Therapy

0:00So there was probably about 20 people gathered around my mum's vagina just when we were being born My dad said you came out to an audience and you've never really stopped since then. And growing up with sisters, do you think that helped you understand women? Definitely. How did you work all of that out? Years of therapy. Welcome to How to Fail, the podcast that believes, as Truman Capote did, that failure is the condiment that gives success its flavour. At Sierra, discover top workout gear at incredible prices, which might lead to another discovery. Your headphones haven't been connected this whole time.

0:39Awkward. Discover top brands at unexpectedly low prices. Sierra, let's get moving. Race the rudders. Race the sails. Race the sails. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger. Wait, is that an enterprise sails solution? Reach sails professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title, and more. Start converting your B2B audience today. Spend$250 on your first campaign and get a free$250 credit for the next one. Get started today at linkedin.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. The actor Tom Ellis was born in Cardiff and raised in Sheffield, the son of a Baptist minister.

1:22It was a religious upbringing, which makes it all the more ironic that the role for which he has arguably become most famous is playing the devil incarnate in Netflix's hit series Lucifer, which ran for six seasons and became the most watched streaming series in the world in 2019. Ellis studied at the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama and broke onto our screens as Gary in the beloved BBC One sitcom Miranda. Since then, he's starred in US dramas including Players with Gina Rodriguez and Hulu's Tell Me Lies, where the showrunner is his wife, Megan Oppenheimer. The couple welcomed a daughter via surrogate in 2023.

2:06It's a rapid ascent that shows no signs of abating. Ellis next appears in the highly anticipated film adaptation of Richard Osman's best-selling mystery novel, The Thursday Murder Club, alongside Helen Mirren, Pierce Brosnan and Richard E. Grant. and yet Ellis was rejected from the first four drama schools he applied to. Still some inner resolution kept him going. As he puts it, you have to get used to rejection if you're going to do it but I had this feeling inside of me that it was going to work out and it did. That feeling has carried me through my adult life. Stay in your lane, do your thing, it's all going to be all right.

2:51Tom Ellis, welcome to How to Fail. Hello. Nice to meet you. Lovely to meet you too. And I'm guessing as well that you grew up with the idea of there being a path, whether that was a spiritual feeling or a religious one. Did you feel and do you feel that the universe kind of has its plans for you? I do. I mean, it's a strange one. I think, you know, when I was a kid growing up, I used to think that it would be God and God's plan and all of those things, because that's what I essentially learned from day one. I think as I've gotten older, I've taken a step back from organized religion, but I still hold on to a sense of spirituality and a sense that there's something much bigger that we can't put our finger on.

3:40And there's no point trying to explain it. Yes. So we've got so deep so quickly. I think that's so interesting because if something doesn't feel right to you, have you also got more practice at acknowledging and recognising that and changing course? definitely I mean I think I've always tried to avoid like conflict like it's a big thing that and it's a family trait I've learned but I've as I've gotten older I've I've had to have had to face things that have been really uncomfortable but I'm glad that I have done because I then I get back to a place of like this is where I should be and I think acknowledging when I've been in the wrong place has been hard but it's something that I've got better at gosh well not only we were discussing before we started recording the fact that what we have in common is that we are both 1978 November Scorpios the best version exactly big up the 1978 Scorpios but the fact that you're a people pleaser that's another huge thing that we have in common and it is something that it's been a lifetime's work for me dismantling myself from that desire to keep everyone happy yeah and to sort of outsource your sense of self to what you think other people are feeling about Accommodating people.

4:55Yes. And thinking about other people's, you know, whether someone's comfortable in an environment or stuff. Let's talk about the Thursday Murder Club. You have described the cast as like a bucket list of all the people I've ever wanted to work with. True. So that must be exciting, but it must also have been very intimidating. Oh my God, incredibly intimidating. I mean, it's funny actually, because I remember my first day on set, I was working with Dame Helen Mirren, Sir Ben Kingsley Pierce Brosnan and the amazing Celia Imri and my character in it is actually sort of a minor personality he was a boxer and now he does you know reality TV and stuff like that so he he is a celebrity to all of those characters in it so I've come in to this scene and they're all fawning over me and I'm thinking if you knew what was going on in my head right now this is role reversal that's so funny did you meet Steven Spielberg?

5:53Wow, do you know what? We were on set one day. Richard Osman was there for a set visit. And we were filming in this beautiful, like stately home just outside Reading. And it was a busy day. There was a big crowd scene. And lots of the cast were there. And then there was this helicopter that was flying really low overhead. And someone said, Oh, that's Steven. And I was like, what, Steven Spielberg? And they were like, Yeah, yeah, he's coming to visit today. And I was like, What, what, really? couldn't believe it and yeah lo and behold he parked his helicopter and he came up this driveway and he came and said hello to all the you know the main cast I was going to say the four biggies and I was stood shoulder to shoulder with David Tennant who's also in the film and we were there going I can't believe it's Steven Spielberg and then as time went on he was doing photographs with a few people and then we turned to each other and said do you think anyone's going to actually introduce us to him and no one did.

6:50Oh no. So he kind of did his visit and then he left and we both were a bit quiet and the next day we came in and I said, David, I was so disappointed about yesterday. And he went, so was I. So Steven Spielberg is a producer, he's the one who produced it. Yeah, so Amblin Entertainment, which is his production company, they're the people that bought the rights to the books before the books were published, actually. And yeah, Yeah, they are making them into big Hollywood movies with Chris Columbus directing. Now, I mentioned in the introduction that your wife, Megan, is the showrunner of Tell Me Lies.

7:27Now, she's developing or has developed a new show called Second Wife starring you, and she happens to be your second wife. Indeed. Now, am I drawing the right conclusion that it might be loosely based? I'm also a second wife. Right. Actually, I've been a second wife twice over. Oh. Yeah, so if she wants to talk to me. is it loosely based on that experience because i'm riveted by it and i can't wait to watch it it is it's it's based on i mean it is that classic thing of you know we want to write something that we know about and i think there are very there's there's lots of you know nuances about being a step parent for example um and being a parent who has children that goes into another marriage where you don't have children and you know there are so many things that happen within that and so many feelings that you go through that while you're going through them a lot of the time you feel like you're the only person that's ever experienced this and then of course as time goes on you start talking to people and realize it's a very shared experience.

8:28I can't wait to watch it as I said and I do think you're so right when you are particularly a step-parent it's a story that you can't share without also taking into consideration the people that you're sharing it about. So my story as a step-parent is not just mine. Yes. And I'm very protective of the fact that it involves other people. And so that's why it often feels like you are just the only one experiencing it because there are so few stories about it. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I also, I would love to talk to you if you don't mind about surrogacy because I'm someone who went through a loss of fertility treatment unsuccessfully for very many years.

9:07And so I salute couples who are brave enough to do what you did. And I think it's such a beautiful thing. And I can't even imagine the emotional complexities that you went through. So I just wanted to ask you a little bit about that and about that experience to get your lovely Dolly. Lovely Dolly. Well, I think we should start with lovely Dolly because, you know, I'm a parent of four children now. One of them is an adult. and I all my children have been delivered in different ways but I think the end game is every parent just wants to have a you know a healthy child at the end of it and how you get there I think lots of people have opinions about that but it doesn't really matter at the end of the day and I think you know surrogacy is a really viable option for people where it's it's difficult to do it if you don't have other options.

10:09And it might seem very alien to people that have not done it, but it became its own thing. We became very friendly with our surrogate. She was incredible. Her and her husband were fantastic, especially when Dolly was actually being born. And it seems like a very sort of strange relationship if you're not part of it. But when you are, it makes complete sense. So yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Childbirth and being a parent comes with lots of opinions from people. And I've been happier in life when I've closed my ears off to those opinions, basically. it's a beautiful end to that story and dolly's also a scorpio she is indeed well done that well done for the timing um okay let's get on to your failures so your first failure is your failure at being a sportsman yeah what kind of sports were you into i all sport i was obsessed and i still am obsessed with all sport um football obviously when you're a kid i think certainly in this country that's the that's the main one isn't it it's the everyman sport and everyone dreams of being a footballer um and you know everyone plays it's such an easy game to kind of like put a couple of sweaters down and and um i think it's something that i i i was pretty decent as well not just the football but like cricket rugby i was very able um but i i was never quite good enough to pursue it and it was frustrating and I think one of the main reasons that happened and I was sort of resentful for it my whole sort of childhood was because I grew up in the church and that meant that on Sundays I had to go to church and those were the days when extracurricular clubs sports clubs tended to happen for kids and so I didn't have that outlet and so I was never able to really truly hone my skills outside of school.

12:20And subsequently, I kind of realised maybe when I was about 14 or 15 that that dream was never going to happen. How interesting. And so what's it like when I say your father was a Baptist minister? What's that like?

12:36I mean, I look back at it now and I'm really appreciative of it. As I say, at the time growing up, it got in the way of me wanting to do the things I really wanted to do. you know, I appreciate it now for so many things. It's quite strange when you're the preacher's kid or PK, as we used to call ourselves, because you're almost like a little minor celebrity. Like on a Sunday, you know, my dad is like the main celebrity and everyone wants to talk to him. Everyone wants to impress him. Everyone wants to have their moment with him. And then I would sort of after church, you know, be speaking to everybody in a weird sort of way.

13:13It sort of honed my social skills. Again, didn't appreciate that until I left, you know, and lived on my own and became an adult. It set me up for lots of good things in my life, but at the time I was so resentful.

13:30When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th. And never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end-to-end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. Learn more at whatsapp.com. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Checking off the boxes on your to-do list is a great feeling. And when it comes to checking off coverage, a State Farm agent can help you choose an option that's right for you.

14:09Whether you prefer talking in person, on the phone, or using the award-winning app, it's nice knowing you have help finding coverage that best fits your needs. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

14:23The new Popeyes and Hot Wins menu is fire flavor. Trust me because I'm about to eat it. That hits right away. Attempt the Popeyes Hot Wins menu in stores. Love that chicken from Popeyes. Limited time in participating US restaurants. You've got three sisters, one of them is a twin Yeah Tell me about being a twin Well, again, I don't know any different You were the heaviest twins on record when you were born, weren't you? My sister and I were on the front page of the South Wales Echo at two days old with the headline Record Breakers Honestly, you should be so proud I was so proud I was£9.03 and my sister was£7.05 Your mum was carrying around just like£17 pounds yeah plus all the fluid and everything else so it was like crazy my gosh and it was at the University of Hospital Wales in Cardiff so this is why my dad thinks I became an actor because basically when we were born news had got around to these medical students that these massive twins were going to be born so there was probably about 20 people gathered around my mum's vagina just when we were being born and my dad said you came out to an audience and you've never really stopped since then.

15:34Oh my goodness. What does your sister do? My sister is a head teacher of primary school. Is she? Which is so interesting because that's also, I imagine, a part of that, you can see the connection between minister, head teacher, actor. There's a performance element to all of it. You have to be comfortable, you know, speaking in front of people or putting on a persona to speak in front of people for sure. Was your mum okay? My mum was fine. And the weird thing is that she had us naturally. Oh my gosh. Which just wouldn't happen these days. and my sister was first and she was breached so that wouldn't happen i mean it's all it's bonkers to think about it yeah um i know that it's probably very annoying as a twin to get asked about being a twin and you probably get asked this all the time go on can you guess what i'm going to ask do we have similar thoughts are we kind of do we have that telepathy if something's happening can you feel that we don't have that and i wonder whether that is something that happens with identical twins because they've come from the same egg that's split whereas we were separate eggs that just happened to share.

16:32We were wombies, as I like to call them. Okay. Wombates. Wombates. And growing up with sisters, do you think that helped you understand women? Definitely. Yes, without a shadow of a doubt. And to the point where, you know, I had friends that grew up just with boys and they would struggle, you know, having platonic friendships with girls because they couldn't think about girls other than, you know, the opposite sex and thinking about it from that point of view. And I just never really had that obstacle. I just, everyone was the same. And, you know, it was certainly advantageous when I was a teenager and my sisters would bring their friends home and I got to sort of, you know, witness and be part of the world that other people would come to school going, I wonder what it is they talk about.

17:18I wonder how to be. It was just a very natural thing for me. I'm very I'm going to come back to the sport but before we do I'm very interested in this in how people pleasing plays out later in life so as I mentioned I think I really identify with that categorization and it held me back in my romantic relationships in a way I didn't realize at a time at the time because I didn't know who I was I was so embedded in the idea of trying to please my partner that I ended up yeah just losing touch with my own needs wants and desires did you have any of that experience in your romantic relationships that yeah no for sure I mean that really resonates with me actually I think because I came from a good upbringing should we say um I felt I had a sort of savior complex a little bit as well where I felt you know I've got nothing bad in my life and I can only offer you good things and so I would gravitate towards people that maybe hadn't had such a great upbringing and feel like I really had something to offer.

18:25And I look back at it now and think, God, I was such an idiot to be like that. But it does come out of that thing to want someone, you know, I want you to like me, is a voice in my head all the time, in any environment I go into. If I'm at work at the moment and someone is, you know, deemed difficult or something like that, I see that as a challenge to make them to want them to like me. And it's a good attribute in certain environments. But I think you really have to look after your heart when you're like that. Because you can, as I alluded to before, I think you open yourself up to people taking advantage of that sometimes as well.

19:05And if you're in a place where you're accommodating someone who's very forthright and very adamant about things and whatever, it can diminish you somewhat and you can make yourself small without realizing it. And then before you know it, you've really lost a sense of self and you feel a bit lost. How did you work all of that out? Years of therapy. Yes, did so. I mean, I've had therapy, you know, on and off throughout my adult life. You know, it's come at times where something big has happened and I feel like, you know, I've had to do it. And actually, from that, I've realized that it's better just to continually talk about oneself in an environment where you're not, you know, annoying people, you're paying someone to listen to you talk about yourself.

19:56But I think, you know, through therapy, I've learned that you're just basically asking someone to ask you the questions that you're scared to ask yourself, because you probably know the answers already. what do you think this might be too personal so don't feel don't feel free not to answer it what do you think is the scariest question you've ever been asked the scariest question i don't know if it's i don't know if it's a question so much as a kind of it's more about admitting stuff to oneself um and i think getting out of your own way to do that is really important. Um, and you have to lose your ego.

20:40You have to, you have to be humble. Um, and you have to want to try and be better, I guess. Um, and my main, I think my main thing is that I don't want to repeat mistakes. Um, and I want to be aware as to why I've done something. Why did I behave like that? What was going on? What was I thinking? Why was I thinking that way? because I can recognize when I'm not being myself. I can recognize when I've drifted too far away from it. But it's, you know, it's time. It's getting old. It's having children. It's lots of things, you know, put stuff in perspective. We'll come back to being an actor in a second.

21:21The sportsman failure. What do you think it taught you letting go of that dream? Because it is, especially as a teenager, it is quite profound thinking to yourself I'm not going to be good enough so I need to let that go what what I did was that I decided well if I can't do that I'd like to do something to do with that so I was really on a path of wanting to work in like physiotherapy and sports injuries um I thought if I can't run on the pitch as a player at least I can run on the pitch with the magic sponge um so I think that that was how I was sort of channeling that disappointment basically it was weird because I didn't I stumbled across acting at like the age of 17 so I'd really spent most of my school years never doing that you know wasn't part of my life and it was sport sport sport sport sport I guess stumbling across acting was the real point of like oh okay this is what I should be doing.

22:24And you stumbled across it because of a teacher is that right? Yeah yeah my old teacher Claire Pender who I'm still really good friends with actually I was doing A-levels and I was doing sports science history and English and I did a couple of weeks of the history course and I just it wasn't a period of history that I was that into and I just wasn't enjoying it so I didn't really know what to do and I went to my sixth form tutors and said I'm going to drop history and they said well you have to do something else and I didn't know what and then Claire had been my English teacher previously in school and she came to me like in a nervous kind of excitement and said I hear you're looking for a third A level I said yeah she said I'm running the theatre studies course and I've got 12 girls and one boy I really need boys and I went how many girls um and completely the wrong motivation to do something but I I said yeah I'll come along and you know literally within like two or three lessons I was like oh I'm really enjoying this and as that sort of year progressed there was a school play she cast me in the lead of that and I did we did that school play and another friend of mine whose mum used to be an actress came to see it she called me the next day and said I saw you in the play last night I really think you should think about doing this and I told my teacher that and she said well I think you should think about doing this as well and so at the next parents evening she convinced my parents that I should audition for drama school and we will talk more about drama school because it pertains to one of your failures but if you'll indulge me and my listeners because we've had Miranda on this podcast before and she is beloved getting that role as Gary what was that whole experience like for you being in Miranda?

24:09It was, I mean, ultimately it was amazing. I'll never forget being sent the script. I didn't know who Miranda was at the time. And she had, she wasn't, you know, people knew her in the comedy world, but she wasn't particularly known at home at that point in time. And I got sent this script and at the time it was called Miranda Hart's Joke Shop and it was a pilot script and I because I didn't know who she was I didn't know how she delivered her lines or anything like that I was reading this script thinking what on earth is this I I think it's funny I can't work it out um but I was you know my interest was Pete so I went to the audition and Miranda was there and so she read the scenes with me and it was during that process I was thinking oh my god this woman's hilarious this suddenly all make sense and I think I know what I would do with this for Gary um and we just had a really lovely meeting and we did the pilot and I didn't know what to expect after the pilot and I watched it back and it and it came out really well and then we we got commissioned as this tiny little show on BBC2 and it was I think it was the first time that I'd done a job where I noticed people coming up to me afterwards going, oh, I've seen this thing.

25:28And I didn't know at the time whether it was going to be received well or not because it was really against the grain of how comedy was going. But it was just amazing that people responded in the way that they did. And do they still, when you come back to London, do you? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I either get Gary or Lucifer in the street. That's why. Just people shouting that at you. Yeah, Gary! Lucifer, Lucifer, Gary. Yeah. yeah okay your second failure is that you failed at your medical for your u.s green card oh i can't wait to hear this story yeah so when i was growing up i um when i was seven years old i fell off my bike and my mum was a music teacher i remember she was doing a piano lesson at the time so she couldn't tend to me so my elder sister did and i grazed my knee and she had to like put TCP on it and put a plaster on it and I passed out and I first time never happened to me before I'd felt funny passed out remember coming around and my sister was over me going oh my god and my mum ran running in from the piano lesson and um that was the first time of many times in my life that I passed out at like the sight of blood or having some sort of medical procedure like a you know having my blood taken or an injection or whatever and i sort of lived with that my whole life uh being told i was a bit of a wuss and oh you're gonna pass out you have to lie down and all of these things and uh at my medical for my us green card they had to take blood and before that i'd filled out a form that said have you ever suffered from you know and you always say no to these things have you ever suffered no no no no no fainting dizziness no blah blah blah anyway the doctor then takes my blood starts asking me questions and I can feel it happening and I'm like I'm really sorry I think I'm about to and I was out and I came around and the doctor was panicking and um basically they sorted me out you know I don't know if you've if you've ever if you ever fainted yes when you come around from a faint you're like sweaty sweaty like don't know where you are just it's horrible and it takes a bit of time to get your get your shit together basically but um when I finally got together she went okay I'm gonna have to fail you and I said okay and she said because you said all these things on your form and you've just displayed to me that you you are prone prone to fainting um so I'm gonna defer this and you have to get neurological tests oh my gosh so I had to I ended up going back like you know six months later and passing it but um did you go for neurological tests I went for neurological everything's fine it is that you're just a worse so here's the thing so that is the uk nhs version of my ailment okay i now have lived in the states for a while and i was explaining this to a doctor in the states because they'd asked me to come in to have some blood taken and they said have you ever um taken anything for that and i was like no one has ever offered me anything for it what are you talking about and they said well what you're describing to me is a condition called vasovagal.

28:51And it's basically to do with your vagal nerve and to do with your nervous system. And essentially, it's a panic attack. It's a form of panic attack. And it's your body deciding something is really bad, and your nervous system shuts down, and you go into fight or flight. And so that's why you pass out, because it's protecting you. For whatever reason, blood, injections, medical stuff causes that reaction in me. And this doctor said, if you were to take like an anti-anxiety medication before you do these things, it will probably switch off that side of your nervous system and it won't happen. So I said, I'm willing to give it a shot.

29:32And I came in the following week to have my bloodstake and having taken one of these things beforehand. And I was absolutely fine. So you've got your green card now. I'm now actually a US citizen because that was 15 years ago. Do you like being a US citizen? I think I've become a US citizen at the worst possible time, unfortunately. I love the States. I've got so many friends or family there now, obviously. It is a strange time to be a US citizen. I'm terrified of the new administration and what they're going to do. and I feel like whereas in 2016 there was a real sort of active response as to how people felt about Trump being in power, this time around it feels like everyone's gone quiet.

30:18It feels very passive and while it's passive, all this stuff is happening and that is terrifying because it hopefully will only be four years if he has his way. I think he'll probably try and change the system and be there as long as he can be. And how does it feel being in LA specifically? Because LA and California has always been seen as its own particular enclave. Yeah. And that must be nice in some ways, but also weird in others. I mean, it is. I think, you know, people will say this about the States, the two coasts think very differently to everyone else in the middle. And there is, you know, there is a generic truth to that.

31:00I think the thing that's shocking for me this time around is that a lot of people secretly voted for Trump last time. This time, they've not been so secretive about it. And even in California, I'm shocked about the amount of people that, even if they are traditionally Republican, I would hope that they would have enough common sense to realize that he isn't. And that's a very different thing that you're signing up for. but I think unfortunately you know money talks in the states it very much is you know it is the currency but it also is the currency of how people value life and people are prone to looking after number one first there and the sense of social conscience I don't think exists in the way that we know it.

31:54And that's quite worrying. Have you spoken to Megan about not always living there? Yes, we have. I mean, we've talked about it, but you know, 50 % of America doesn't like Trump, at least 50%. And Trump doesn't represent America. He represents a certain type, and he represents commerce and he represents business and the worst things that come with that. But I don't think he represents American people. And I think that to just leave a place because you don't like the ruler, if it's a democratic place and there is an opportunity to have your say, then I think just upping, you know, to up sticks and leave, I think would be the wrong thing to do.

32:46I think we need to spend the next few years like regrouping gathering proper opposition and going again in three and a half years and properly getting to the end of this Yes I salute you in that endeavour It's a very very strange time This podcast is supported by FX's English Teacher Last year's critically acclaimed series returns to follow Evan, Gwen, and Marky as they vie for their students' divided attention. See why Cosmopolitan called its premiere season a master class of comedy. While glamor raved, it's the year's funniest and most heartwarming new comedy series. FX's English Teacher. All new, Thursdays on FX.

33:33All episodes now streaming on Hulu.

33:38Lowe's knows how to help make your home holiday ready for less. Get select style selections, vinyl flooring for just$1.99 per square foot and have it installed before the festivities begin. Our team can help you every step of the way. See a Lowe's Red Vest Associate or visit Lowe's.com slash holiday install to get started. Lowe's. We help. You save. Basic install only. Date restrictions apply. Subject to availability. Install by independent contractors. See associate for details. Contiguous U.S. only. Ford Blue Cruise hands-free highway driving takes the work out of being behind the wheel allowing you to relax and reconnect while also staying in control.

34:21Enjoy the drive in Blue Cruise enabled vehicles like the F-150, Explorer and Mustang Mach-E. Available feature on equipped vehicles. Terms apply. Does not replace safe driving. See Ford.com slash Blue Cruise for more details. Will you talk to me a little bit about Megan? What's it like working with your wife? I mean, I guess you worked with her before she was your wife. Did you? I did, yeah. We met. We didn't meet at work. We met outside of work. But I did. I worked on a show of hers a few years ago called Queen America. And then I worked on Tell Me Lies last year. I love working with her. I mean, she is so brilliant at what she does.

35:05She's so intelligent. emotionally intelligent, but also intelligent from a performative point of view. Cause she used to be, when she was growing up, she used to be an actor. And so the way in which she can communicate with actors is really quite special, I think. And the way she can communicate from page to actor is, is a skill that, you know, is few and far between. I have to say there's not many directors that can do that well. Um, and I, you know, we have a huge amount of respect for each other outside of loving each other a lot of people would think that working on a show like tell me lies that I did last year with her which is a show about sexual toxicity and there's you know very explicit scenes within it I think a lot of people would think isn't that strange that you're doing that and your wife is like sitting there watching it which I can you know I can appreciate but And actually it wasn't.