2 How to manage your mental health, Matt Johnson

0:00Matt Johnson is an absolute superstar and in today's episode he talks about all things mental health and why this particular period of the year is really hard for quite a lot of people. There's a ton of marketing campaigns out there telling you you must be having the best time of the year and you get all this time off. But when you run a company, that is not the case. So we wanted to share 12 Days of Christmas, this special mini series to help you with your health and wellness. We talk all things mental health with Matt, how to manage yours. He gives some really amazing advice as to what he's learned from his own experiences with this.

0:35Hello. Hello, lovely. Hi, love. How are you? I'm all right. I'm all right. You're in Wales. I am in Wales, yeah. Yeah, my father, bless him, has just had a hip replacement. So my mother has been looking after my father and my grandmother. So I had work postponed this morning. So I was like, get to Wales so they can go out. So they're currently in some sort of sandwich place, having some peace and quiet together, which is quite nice. So I am holding fort. Well done. Good family-ing there. Yeah. It deserves really good Christmas presents now. Yes, this is true. And I can't believe it's the 8th of December.

1:14It's crazy, isn't it? It's nuts. But also, I can't believe the last time we chatted, it was three years ago. So I think we recorded like November, December 22. Jesus. Jesus Christ. Time flies. How have you changed in three years? What's happened? Oh, well, I've got more grey hair, more wrinkles. I'm ageing. I'm about to hit 40 fucking five. and I have to say that because when I turned 30 fucking three, my mum gave me a cake, iced around the top, said happy 30 fucking third. And it was great. Jesus Christ. Okay. Killer. Yeah. I mean, I kept talking about that. And like in three years, lots has changed, but not much has changed.

1:51Still not good with boundaries. Okay. Propensity to kind of work and work and work and then realise, okay, I should probably have stopped to look after my mental health. Okay. Not as good as I'd like to be, but I'm better at rolling with the punches. Okay. And going, you know what? Self-employment, it's a roller coaster. Every guest, 140 episodes, everyone's like, it's a roller coaster. Be okay with responsibility. I'm like, I'm not okay with it. I accept it. And I'm rolling with it. Embrace the quiet moments because when it's busy, it's really busy. Yes. And this year, I feel like I've had a bit of a gap year because it's been lovely.

2:24I've been sort of poddling along with my team. Hang on now. In this three years, you've moved out of London as well. Well, yes. There's another dramatic change that I decided to sell my flat and move to the countryside. Now, was that for personal, I need to get the fuck out of London reasons? Yes, that was, I am not happy in a big city anymore. I need some space. I need some peace and quiet. So to be an hour on the train outside of London. And so I walk 10 minutes to the station through a churchyard, lovely church, cobbled stones down past the river, cross a bridge, say hello to everyone I meet.

3:00I get on the train and an hour and ten I'm in Paddington where you go into fight mode and everyone's like do not look at me in the eye and do not talk to me and like so you're controlling what you can yes and you've listened to yourself when you needed to kind of take some time take a step away to be more productive are you more productive in work in that sense a friend called me out sonics it took me a year to find the house and I was determined to live in this village and they were like you're gonna have to compromise you get I was like no it's gonna be there and And it was actually some glib comment after a festival.

3:30I said, right, by this time next year, I'm going to move to Chalbury and I've gone to the Antarctic. And then I realised actually getting to the Antarctic was way easier than buying a house in the Cotswolds. But yeah, it's given me more structure. It's given me, and I know it sounds very cliched, but much more in tune with nature and the seasons. I don't mind winter as much. I used to really struggle with the dark and the mizzle, as someone called it earlier. and seeing nature do its thing and it goes in cycles I feel much more at peace with that and the highs of the kind of garden coming to life in the spring I've got gardening in my life which I now love oh amazing and my mum's like you've changed I'm like we've bonded over that and pointing out that I managed to replant some weeds really neatly great do you think if you could change anything would you have done this earlier oh it's so interesting because I always ask podcast guess that it's like no i wouldn't change a thing because i wouldn't be here today if i did yeah i probably would actually blind a house in england is horrible if i could have just magic wands through that stress and a friend called me out she said uh so come on jules think about this you're changing the one stable thing in your life your flat you've been in for 10 years and battersea so you're gonna rip that band-aid off it's the one stable thing work love life family life everything else is up in the air i was like yeah because it's gonna help with all of the other things it's gonna help stabilize so yeah now i wake up to an owl occasionally not siren that's pretty awesome i have a really lovely commute closer to wales very much closer to wales well out here there's less manicness do you feel like you've like returned back to who you were supposed to be i'm getting there i think it's a work in progress and this is something i learned from your first episode actually is that it's it's constantly moving changing it's never finished you've just got to kind of keep moving forward like a lot of people like you can't move to the countryside you don't have a husband you don't have pets and you have no children what are you doing oh my god who said that so many people it's very judgy out there well do you think that's a reflection of their judgment of someone else or just their fear of them doing it themselves well i think it's a stereotype of like will you leave london when you've got all the tick boxes and you need more space.

5:46It's like, no, you leave London when you're in your 40s and you want some peace and quiet. And I really wanted to belong to something. And I think in London, I lost that. We're becoming self-employed, going to co-working offices, which we also talked about in our first episode. You're anchorless. There's no structure or someone expecting you to be somewhere at a particular time. And I miss that. So coming to a smaller village where people know who I am, as much as there's a few raised eyebrows of, what are you doing here on your own? like Cameron Diaz in The Holiday when she's clacking around in the cottage environment.

6:17That's kind of like two worlds colliding, isn't it? That and also wardrobe. I've still got London clothes. I don't know where out here. In London, you can blissfully avoid somebody forever. But you have to connect, I think, in the country. Well, this is the pro and the con because I wanted the connection in the community and I've got the connection in the community and everybody knows your business, which is kind of fine until you might ruffle a feather here and there. I went on a date once with someone who walked me home and snogged me on my doorstep. He's like, your neighbours? I'm like, yeah, all 85 and they're all looking.

6:53I bet you brought some wonderful entertainment. Well, yes, it's an interesting change. But how about you in the last three years? How are you doing with stuff? I was just doing it. So I don't talk anymore. I just ask questions. I was going to say this feels very much like the roles have been reversed. I don't give anything away anymore. Right. Okay, so this is my thing. So it's been great talking to you. Have a lovely day. I'm not getting away that easily. My three years, wow. It's been, I'm probably up 15 different people since that time and where we spoke. I've continued my kind of exploration of my own mental health and in the aid to kind of understand others and to kind of build on that.

7:39I've lent into coaching more. I've kind of worked on that a lot to try and understand people. I love people. And I think... Good with people. I hope so. I hope I listen enough because that's what I need for myself. I need to be seen as such. So I hope I can provide that space for people. And it's been good. I think over that three years, of course, we were in 2022 then. So we're not far out of lockdown. So work is gradually picked back up, you know, back on Good Morning Britain and daytime television, which has been really fun to revisit that world again from a new perspective. And just, you know, I'm happier, I would say, in my own skin, which is all I've ever wanted, really.

8:27And I think it's in line with what we were just talking about, about not worrying about what anybody else is doing, not fitting into an archetype of who I should be at this age or who a man should be and I've listened to who I am I've done that work I've worked out that process and that method I've embodied it and I've embedded it and I'm living it now and it takes a while to kind of for all of it to percolate and for all of it to kind of I've paid a lot of money for change I've done a lot of work it's it's like work it's it's work like facing the worst parts of you constantly i'd rather not yeah i'd rather not physio and they press on the knot and then it presses harder this kind of work is the hardest freaking yeah it hurts because there's certain mentalities that we have and certain behavioral patterns and neurological pathways that aren't ours and you have to unpick them you have to work out why they're there you have to look at where your family have paid influence and society integrated their own belief systems that weren't yours and created this person that necessarily isn't you it wasn't me so it's taken a long time to kind of unravel that and to work with it to understand it forgive a lot of it forgive myself for a lot of things and that means really facing the darker parts and i you know as you know i've been through some really dark moments and um forgiving myself for that it's probably been one of the hardest things in the entire world and that compassion and understanding has then been the starting point of like okay then who the who the hell am i what do i like well you unpick it but then you have to build it back you're going to start again like and and then of course, you still have to have that old you on you, in you, around you, and you listen to it, you understand it, you understand it's there, you get ahead of it.

10:31For example, if you want to do something new, your brain will always say, don't do that, you're not good enough, you don't deserve to be in that world. And then you've got to always fight and wrangle past that, and then do the thing that's scary. And that's a constant thing. So I think that's where I am with it. I'm living and activating new neurological pathways and patterns alongside the old murky dark ones that want me to keep small and be scared and i'm trying to do things with a better motivation and more purposeful and trying to navigate my life with my old jobs and my friends and lives that i have with this new ideology of who I am and the new blueprint of my my brain as such so I mean yeah not much I haven't been up to much in three years what's nice is that I mean you're just the same really it's just you just do things with a bit more purpose and like you said earlier like a few more boundaries are in place and and then it's still life and still life hits you and you have to deal with it And I suppose I'm not as unkind to myself as I once was.

11:43I'm so pleased to hear you say this because I also think, and you do a lot around this, that men don't often talk about the vulnerabilities of mental health. And actually, it's so important that we all do. And especially when you start and run a business, how much it takes from you. And yes, it gives you a lot as well. But I wanted to chat to you three years on, not two, because we're about to come into Christmas and New Year. And it's a really shit time of year for a lot of people. And there's a lot of marketing going, you've got to have the best time ever with your family that you love so much because you've got a loving family.

12:20That's not true for a lot of people, especially when you're a self-employed person or a solopreneur or freelance. you don't have someone giving you a christmas party or a bonus your business carries on you're exhausted you're meant to be taking so there's a lot of pressure on this time of year so what would you suggest people do over this period to look after themselves i mean what you just said it was really interesting about um people that are self-employed so let's start with them like and i'm self-employed too and yeah you don't have an appraisal you don't have necessarily a staff Christmas party.

12:56And I think what's really wonderful about that awareness is that maybe you should do these pats on your back, give yourself a treat, buy yourself a present, get together with other self-employed people and have a works Christmas party. Because these milestones are really important. Validation, as much as I hate it, is a big part of business because it's transactional, right? I put the work in, I get the thing back. I'm in the job. I need my management to tell me if I'm doing a good job or not. Either I'll know with an appraisal, which you should have in business from like twice a year or something, like a roundup, or you have a promotion or whatever.

13:39There's physical things that change in your life where you have a significant moment where you know where you are, where you stand. And when you're self-employed, you just got to do that for yourself. Do it every day. The resilience. Constantly. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And push yourself. And if you're managing the team, you're the one that has to keep going and keep positive. No one's going to pick you up. So I think you're so right of create it for yourself. I'm in a different type of industry, but it's very similar. You're only as good as your last game. Right. But unfortunately, you could be amazing and you could not care call back ever.

14:17you know and that's how it works it's not it's not always about how good you are it's about timing it's about somebody else doing it and the right person wrong time right person right time and then it always is reliant on how you react to that so and i've experienced that a lot in my career where i thought is i've done a really good job there like for the one time i've gone i nailed that and then you just don't get the call and then instead of being treating that as an as an observation or is that as a as a appraisal like i couldn't have been that good you have to remember your own instinctive credentials your your own instinctive um marks for your performance and if you feel like you've done well and you did your best then you have to stick with that you have to own that, if you truly believe that, you can't be seeking somebody else's validation.

15:11In this business world, it's the same as mine. Like, it's so fickle. Money is there one minute and money is gone the next minute. And somebody might call you to say, hey, I've got this thing for you and you're perfect or this business idea and it's wonderful. And they just fall away and nobody will give you an answer or a reason or an explanation. And that's not your fault. And And that's one of the things that I've learned is that you literally have to self-manage, tell yourself that you're doing very well and remind yourself of your worth constantly. And like I say, you know, I often do it like, you know, just, you know, I've been freelance now since 2010.

15:50You know, it's a long time and it's taken me a long time to kind of be my own cheerleader. Yeah, it's really hard. And I think that's it. you have to accept you're going to have down days as well. You can't be unrealistic. You can't be perfect every day. You can't be upbeat every day. You're human, especially at what I'm now coming up for six years with my business. In any job, you're going to have bumps in the road, even ones you make up for yourself. What would you suggest that founders do to help their resilience, especially over this time of year? Always. I mean, it's really difficult to give advice in an industry, in a world, that doesn't really believe in what I believe in.

16:32It doesn't give you an opportunity for self-reflection and stopping and calm because it's a beast. If you're in this world's startups and all that, what people want you to be is combative and ferocious and hustle. So what I believe in doesn't really sit in line with that world. So I would say stop doing it and leave and go and live in the mountains. However, that's not good advice. You can't just do that. It's unrealistic. And whilst you're in that world, I believe you've got to work with what you have and work with where you are. And I'm in that world too. I'm a hypocrite. I work in television.

17:13The worst for mental health. It encourages you at all times to be scared and to seek validation and to people please. However, working with what's in front of you is very important. So taking that time, as you have done, take that time for yourself. working out what you need for yourself is super important because somebody else's relaxing technique or tool might be not the right one for you like i know that men struggle with meditation and yoga and stuff but like going for a walk in in nature is really important and and taking that time taking yourself away from the screen and knowing that you need to do that often as much as you possibly can and regulation but i always think as well and i believe this to be true like if you want to take on new information or be busy, you need to be coming from a very grounded standpoint.

18:04So even as a matter of a tactic to be better in a board meeting, you need that 20 minutes of meditation or relaxation or regulation for you to be better and for you not to be burned out and therefore not be maybe as good as your job. You need to set up precautions for you to perform better. So I try and do this with the check-in and frontline stuff that we do. We try to go into businesses and train up mental health first aid to create safe spaces, to create safe environments where people can be proactive about their mental health before it gets too late, before burnout happens. And that's really important.

18:42So if you don't have the tools and you don't have the regulation tools in your basket. Like get them, like really, really get some and put them as much as maybe the gym is good for you and you need to have a workout in the morning, get up and have a shower, maybe a cold plunge, what people do all the bloody time. Like whatever it is, as long as you're choosing something for the right reasons and that's to get you into your own body and you're putting yourself in a situation where you're caring for yourself, I think that's very, very important. And obviously downtime as well. You know, I spent a long time drinking and thinking that was like my own special time for myself.

19:24But actually it was kind of a false flag. It was a really short-lived, really meditative state. It was a short-lived... It's almost like a mask, isn't it? Mask on an issue that I was living with. I wasn't able to hold my feelings. In my world, you get really frustrated and angry with people and you get annoyed with yourself. live television, your central nervous system is wild. If you haven't got that managed, it's very dangerous. And that's when I've realized it can show up in your body, in your skin with ailments and colds and your immune system's low and all that. So find out what you can do to regulate what works for you, whether it's journaling, walking, breastwork, meditation, yoga, talking, playing darts, whatever it is.

20:15And it could be anything. It could be like, I need to go to the football once a week and yell, do it. You know, like do it, like whatever it is. Nobody's asking you, as I'm talking to men now as well. Nobody's asking you to not be a man and not to be manly. We're asking you to be more human and expand and be a bit more vulnerable. And that doesn't mean being weak. That means listening to your body and doing what's right for it. And therefore, everyone else around you. Everybody wins when you're proactive with your mental health. yourself in your own business if you choose to live in the fire like we've done right not for long i'm gonna move to the country too i can't bear it i'm starting i'm starting to listen to my body and i think it all starts to change when you start listening and start being proactive and you start being kind and compassionate to yourself it all starts to develop and change and then you start living a more harmonious life or at very least the life that you've chosen is a a little bit easier to manage.

21:15And I think that's incredibly important. And of course, you know, to founders that are watching this and to anybody that's in this melting pot of a job, same if you work in kitchens and anything, it's a high tempo, right? Your central nervous system is all over the place. Some people call it like chakras are out of line on all that type of stuff. It's out of alignment. You're not performing at your best ability. So when you are doing these things and you're listening to your body, that's a really good time for some self-reflection. And I reckon therapy is a really good idea in that time, or at least some sort of talking therapy where you can offload, not onto your partner.

21:56You talk to your partner about stuff, but... Yeah, they're always mine, though. And they're not a mental health expert. I think a mental health expert is always a good idea to go to. And otherwise, you know, if you do rely on your partner and your friends, that becomes codependency. And that's never good. That's not sexy either. So when you have those coping, calming, regulating mechanisms in place and you utilize them and you put habits in place so you do them often, your life will change, hopefully for the better. And then when you are regulated more, then it's a really good opportunity to talk to somebody.

22:33And this might be some other stuff, some other validation stuff that pop up, like attachment styles. Why we choose to be in a relationship like we have with our work or with partners. Why are they all very similar? Why do I keep chasing this love? That's none of my business, but that is a therapist's job to work on that stuff. And that's another level. So when you're running your own business or you're self-employed, the overwhelm and the busyness is almost enough. But how I've sort of hacked it and rationalized doing the work is I'm more efficient at work. I'm more rested. So I'm better at work.

23:08My team get more from me. I get more from me. I actually like my day more when I'm more, to use the expression, regulated. And I enjoy my life more. And who doesn't want that? And when I don't do it, like I remember one colleague saying, you haven't gone to the gym this morning, have you? how do you know she's like i know and i was like oh god i owe you the gym session but also the meditation the calmer side of thing not the kind of go go go burn burn burn it's fuel up and thank you for listing all those modalities because we're about to run the health and wellness season again and that's all of the topics so oh no way okay good like mobility breath work nutrition all of the good stuff um because you don't need to do them all you just need to find one or two things that you know help you as a minimum because if you aren't doing that for you and someone else said this in another episode if you're not looking after yourself you're not looking after your business you're running a red light on your business and i'm guilty of this if you hold your business with more respect than you hold yourself do it for the business because you are part of that and then inadvertently you'll look after yourself as well yeah why do you think men struggle particularly more than women um i think it's an emotional intelligence i think it's an emotional awareness an awareness of your emotions is incredibly important and as well with men for ever since the dawn of time that's not been required of them there's only been a few requirements like protection and um being the provider and all those things it's been very limited and on what we're seeing over particularly in our era and in this time now I think more things have been asked of men as well as being a provider as such and a protector people are asking them to be a little bit softer a little bit more open a bit more vulnerable at times and and I think that's very difficult for men and and I found it very difficult myself as you know, I really suffered with my mental health and I suffered silently.

25:17And that's the thing. Men are dying because of silence, not because of softness. And what I've experienced in my own life, when I've not told anybody about my stuff, when I've not had these mental health tools in place and I've kept it all to myself because I shouldn't, because I should be a man and just get on with it. Man and inventing commas, yeah. Yeah, totally. I think that's what was in my head at all times it nearly killed me i would rather end that voice that saying you're not good enough you're a piece of shit you should be better why can't you just get up and get on with it why can't you just move forward you've got you've got the worse people off than you all this negative cynicism and and stigma that i was living under nearly killed me and it's killing men in their millions every single year one man every minute around the world dies because of suicide.

26:11Eight out of 10 suicides are men. And it's devastating, the landscape of men. And there's obviously lots of reasons for that. One of the main reasons is that reason that men can't and don't feel like they can be more. They can't open up. They can't be aware of their emotions and tell and share people their feelings and admit that there's something going on or something wrong and I completely understand historically why why men have been put in that position but what's wonderful and I think what's happened with women and it's particularly even in my my my gender my lifetime and my mother's lifetime like feminism and equality has been such a wonderful thing creating expansion for all women hopefully more and hopefully that's not backwards, but you know, it's, it's been a positive change.

27:02And also, I think that's been asked of men too. Women are maybe asked to be harder and men are asked to be softer. And I don't know what that means or whatever, but I genuinely believe we're in a wonderful place for change, real change, where I work with men all the time and we're living in this wonderful period of time where we can be expansive and work out who we are as a human being, instead of pretending to be Rocky from the film or pretending to be like my dad used to be or like a man should be. Those ideologies don't work. They haven't been working. And men have taken their lives more than ever.

27:47And this is one of the reasons, one of the major reasons is men can't open up. And I think for a A long time, men have been afraid of toxic masculinity. Our guard's up. Am I wrong? Is men being wrong? I think people have misinterpreted what toxic masculinity actually means. And I think from a very interesting standpoint, I would like to kind of open up the conversation and say, no, nobody's telling you you're wrong. It's we've been asked to expand and to be more self-aware and kinder to ourselves and and therefore more compassionate, more empathetic. Instead of this elbow-y, race-to-the-top, capitalistic, dare I say, macho way of being the winner, the breadwinner, the boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

28:35Whereas, like, if we wanted to go back in time and look at communities and see how they worked, yes, the biggest and the ones that could, you know, chase after a coyote or whatever they were trying to kill. they weren't taking gym selfies and putting it on instagram yeah whether the male or female would go out and do that part and other people had different roles and all that type of stuff which is really interesting but the part that people forget is that the people that went out to do the hunting and gathering right they came back and shared it that's how community work but the guy that gets up every morning and goes to that factory drives that cab does that job that he doesn't want to do for all of his life, for his family, that for me is a hero.

29:17So does the work on themselves so they're regulated and in a better frame of mind? Absolutely. Absolutely. And this is the thing. There's so many different types of men out there. We can all exist in them and we're all individual as human beings. And that's where I love where we are in this world now. There's a real opportunity to really have that self-exploration. It's a kind of a privilege in this Western world for us to be able to do such a thing. And lots of these techniques you can do without having to fork out lots of money. I hope it's not too much in a privileged sphere. I know therapy could be a lot cheaper.

29:54Maniling, breath work, that's all free. Walking in nature, drinking water, eating healthier. There's a lot of the basic things I hope we'll cover in this mini-series that will just give people one tool that they can hold on to. I think that's it. And those little sparks really change everything. And as a man, I've realized the hard way that there's much more to a human than this very small, narrow landscape of what a man is. And the same for women. You know, I think as individuals looking inward and finding what works for you and really being honest with yourself about that and then acting on it and embodying it and living it.

30:39Your life does get better and you can hopefully maybe live a happier life. You can make the changes, the big changes like you made. Am I going to leave the city? What's going to happen? What are people going to think? You did it regardless of all those things and it's worked out for you. And I hate the idea of seeing men, women, everywhere living this inauthentic life because it makes people really unhappy. It makes people suppress their real selves. And it really does perpetuate mental illness. We talk about mental health or mental wellness and mental ill health. And I think that's it. It's like who wouldn't want just an easier day in their own head?

31:24You know, because we're the only ones inside our own minds and thoughts. And I think when you're under pressure with work, especially when you're self-employed, it's if you know how you tick and how you function, you can find an ease with it and enjoy it a bit more. And someone said to me recently, it's like, stop worrying about the future. It's just about today. What makes today good is the most game changing piece of advice I think I had all year. It's like today. It's just getting up, going to the gym, maybe having a nice day at work, the odd nice conversation, cook a nice meal. That's enough for today.

31:55And it took so much pressure off my shoulders. So I think, yeah, doing that work is so and so important. what would you say to our listeners who are entering into this festive period um what would you wish for them or want them to maybe explore over this time oh wow i think i wish isn't just for christmas i'd say i mean i it's the same thing as what i wish for everybody at all times i really would love it if um you listener would take some time stop and reflect and ask yourself what do you need who you are and what you want from this world and i think that's a big loaded question and that takes a lot of time but it starts with you taking that plunge and giving a damn about yourself and asking you those questions one last question go on how would you manage social media in these times as a self-employed person oh god because i hate it but i know i need it and it's do you need it needed um what do you mean what do you mean i say need because i have to look at a lot of other people's profiles to work out if our clients are going to work with them and then we have our own home page as a kind of lookbook people can check us out and get to know us on there yeah i just probably need a better boundary with it is it only work you use it for well no because it's on my phone i then go into the doom scrolling put it on you just keep it on your laptop and have a timer on it that shuts at 5 30 yeah locks you out okay just working hours only and i know it's difficult because i wish i could do that and my screen time is a nightmare but it's i mean social media we're addicted to it if this was wine we'd be rattling around outside tesco's by now like it's that much of an addiction like I don't think we'd taken it as seriously as what anything that we just I'm watching a film and I'm like I don't know why I'm picking it up and I'm just and I'm doing like what am I doing if I needed something this much as my phone that was something like cigarettes alcohol drugs sugar I'd have a real health problem but because this is a phone and they want us to be on it at every given second of the day and it's it's kind of normalized um we don't take anything of it but again like when you are aware of that i can't do that because that's not good for me implementing the habit and having that boundary when you start there if you can do it with social media you can pretty much do with anything that's a really difficult thing to kind of actually quantify but like but boundaries are boundaries and and that comes with self-discipline and that self-reflection about what's really important and sometimes habits are really hard to kind of do so like when you do take it from something that's really easy on your phone because when you go on your phone just to look at anything i always end up on instagram so whip it off your phone keep it on your laptop and then have a timer on it that you can't access it unless you put in a passcode between your working hours and if you don't have working hours you should yes boundaries Boundaries, yes.