5 How to balance work with a healthy diet with Jenna Hope

0:00Okay, so even I have now forgotten what day it is, but to Christmas, the joy of most of the people in the world being off and leaving you in peace. that made me think it's quite a good time to reflect on things. So in this episode, Jenna Hope unpacks how everyday nutrition and hydration habits can directly affect your energy, focus and long-term health, which is something we all need when running a business. Keep listening to our remaining episodes of our 12 Days series to learn everything there is about sleep, mobility and so much more. Hi, Juliet. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited about having this conversation with you.

0:34So my name is Jenna Hope. I'm a registered nutritionist and I founded Jenna Hope Nutrition. And we focus on a few areas of health. We focus on working with individuals. So really how individuals can prioritize their health and make small, simple, but really effective changes to their everyday diet and their everyday routine. Then we also work with brands and that can be anything from product development to marketing to advice to talking to their consumers. And then we work with corporate clients as well. So delivering workshops and corporate clinic days where we go in and speak to employees. And a lot of that is about managing stress within the workplace and really encouraging people and educating people why nutrition is so important on a day-to-day basis.

1:20Because I think it's so easy for people to get wrapped up in the day of work and forget about nourishing themselves. And you know more than anyone that if you don't nourish yourself, you do find that that will really have a negative impact on your day and your productivity and ultimately your work output. So in a nutshell, that's what we do. And when did you start? I started in 2016. I had just graduated from my master's. I did an undergraduate and a master's in nutrition. And I was sort of in the place of not really knowing what I wanted to do. There were a lot of jobs in nutrition, but they were really not in companies that I felt really aligned to.

1:59I got a three-month consulting contract with a bakery who were opening up and it had a key focus on health. They were setting up a menu. It was kind of more than a bakery actually, it was a cafe. And so I did three months consulting for them and I realized how much of an impact being a nutritionist in industry, but also working with one-to-ones can have. So that's where I went and set up. And to be honest, at that point, I had no idea the route and the direction that the business is going to take. So I think it's definitely evolved naturally. And we've seen particularly over the last few years, how people's focus on their health, their nutrition and their well-being has changed.

2:37So that's really where it started. I think a lot of founders have said that in the podcast is like, as long as you're comfortable with the fact the company you start is not going to be the company you're running in five years, go for it. Definitely. And given, I mean, we talk a lot in this season about founder health and wellness, because if the founder isn't operating at their optimum, the business won't be either. What are the key things that you found with the founders that you work with, sort of obvious holes in the road that they're missing? What are the common problems you see? So I think priority is a really big one.

3:06Because the priorities are often so focused on the company and the business, they totally forget about themselves. So often that means that they're forgetting about breakfast, they're rolling out of bed, grabbing their coffee and going straight into the office or straight onto their laptop. People are not necessarily stopping to eat. So they might find themselves feeling hungry, but they are eating on the go or potentially grabbing something between meetings or between calls, or they're sitting at their desk, shoveling down lunch, which can have a really detrimental impact on your health, even if you're eating the most nutritious meal in the world.

3:39Really? How come? Yeah. So there's a whole... She says just having done that. So I'm looking at the plate. We've all done it, hands up. I've definitely done it myself as well. But I think this is one thing that a lot of people don't necessarily understand and that I really try to focus on with my one-to-one clients. We know about mindfulness, right? And we know about mindful breathing and meditation and all of that. But one key thing is mindful eating. So when we eat mindlessly, so for example, what you've just done, eating lunch in front of your laptop, your brain is focused on the work that you're doing.

4:14So the emails that you're sending, the podcast that you're preparing for, whatever else you've got going on in your day, which means that it's actually not engaging in the food process. Now, the very first phase of digestion is known as the cephalic phase of digestion. And that's where the brain engages with the idea that we're going to be eating. So the sight of food, the smells of food, the thinking about food, all of that really stimulates the cephalic phase of digestion. what that does is that allows the brain to send those messages to the stomach to say right start secreting those digestive enzymes get ready we're going to receive food the appetite hormones are getting ready to know that the food is coming and therefore naturally when we focus on our food everything works really well we digest our nutrients are absorbed everything's great when we're not focusing because we've skipped that phase the food hits the stomach and all of a sudden the stomach goes whoa we were not expecting this what's going on so it has to work over time to try to break down that food then what we find is that because the food can't be broken down fast enough we get bits of partially digested food entering the gut this means that the nutrients cannot necessarily be fully absorbed that can also contribute to bloating because the gut says we don't know what to do with this these particles are far too big for us and because our appetite hormones are not prepared that means there can be a delay in the secretion of left into the satiety hormone which means that we don't feel as full so essentially the picture that we've got is we're not feeling as full we're more likely to crave something else so if you've ever or anyone listening has ever experienced doing their work they go down for another fork for and they think where on earth did that go i i didn't realize i ate that that's because your brain hasn't registered it, you're much more likely to experience things like bloating and discomfort in the gut.

6:03And you're not going to be absorbing your nutrients as well. So, you know, you might have all the nutrients in there, but if you're not absorbing them, you can't use them. And therefore that's not going to be beneficial for your health. So I think the number one thing I really try to work on with my clients and that is really common among founders is mindless eating. And how can we get people to eat more mindfully so a little bit of science in there but yeah but so many good reasons to prioritize it and be conscious of cooking making time for it sitting down and enjoying the meal and so time I know is the most precious resource within the business and it's finite it turns out I do need to sleep I do need to eat I do need to exercise to function and you go no no I'll work till midnight it's this weird bragging right and a founder like I'm a founder started a company I I can work 18 hours a day every day.

6:52As you can hear in my voice, it doesn't work. You get ill. What other than prioritizing your mealtimes should founders be aware of at the get-go? How can they start as they mean to go on? So another thing is trying to reduce the reliance on coffee. So exactly as you've just said, right, we tend to think we don't need to sleep. It's fine. We'll just have some coffee. That will see us through. And actually, we know that overconsuming on caffeine can not only contribute to poor mental well-being. It can increase stress. So caffeine heightens cortisol, which is our stress hormone. And if we're already feeling stressed because running a business is stressful, let's face it, that's going to heighten those feelings.

7:33It can contribute to anxiety as well. And it can take you along a blood sugar roller coaster. So because you constantly feel like you need this reliance on caffeine, essentially you consume your coffee. Caffeine does contribute to spiking blood sugar levels for a lot of people, as quickly as they go up, they come crashing back down. We feel exhausted. And at that point you think, oh, I'll have another coffee. I'll have another coffee. And you find yourself, you know, four, five, six coffees later, that becomes a daily routine and a daily habit. And I think it's so important if we can encourage people to wean off coffee, they'll sleep better.

8:09Their energy will be there more naturally. Remember that caffeine gives us artificial energy. We tend to think that it's real, but it's not. And mentally for a lot of people, particularly if you're stressed and if you are prone to anxiety, I really would encourage you to try to cut down on those coffees. And for many people as well, coffee is an avenue for adding sugar to their diet. So people will have, especially at the minute with all these festive drinks, but people will add one or two sugars to each coffee. If they're having a couple of coffees a day, that really does add up. Gosh. And someone, I think I heard somewhere saying caffeine has a 12-hour half-life so you should stop any caffeine intake about noon because otherwise by the time you want to go to bed it's still going to be in your system so that's not going to help either exactly yeah so do you see the sort of the fueling of yourself the fueling of your engine is a primary basic need to get on with the day because a lot of people like you should prioritize exercise drink water meditate how important do you think nutrition is in that that list that spectrum of things we have to do to look after ourselves i mean look i'm a nutritionist i'm biased here in a sense that i do definitely think that nutrition plays a fundamental role but i'm also realistic and i believe that there are three key areas of your health so you've got your diet your exercise and your sleep and actually they're starting to believe people are starting to believe that sleep may be more important to our health than diet and exercise combined.

9:35So yes, nutrition is crucial, but sleep is also really important. And we have to remember that the three are often really interlinked. So say, for example, we're not sleeping well, we're much more likely to crave higher sugar foods. We're much more likely to overeat as well, because we know that impaired sleep can increase ghrelin, which is the hunger hormone and decrease leptin, which is the satiety hormone, which means that we find ourselves needing more food to fill the same level of fullness as we would if we've had a good night's sleep. And equally, if we're eating or if we're not making the best dietary choices before we go to bed, as we've just said, for example, on caffeine, that can have a negative impact on our sleep as well.

10:16So I think they're all very much interlinked. I think that diet is so crucial because there are so many times in the day that we make dietary decisions and dietary choices. And if we can prime ourselves to making one, two, three better choices each day, that's going to have a really big impact over the long term. Well, I was reading that, and correct me if I'm wrong, but 95 % of the body's serotonin is produced in the gut. So obviously you have to look after our gut. What are there some, not quick wins, but are there some basic things that founders could do on a daily basis to protect that gut health?

10:51You're correct. So there's a really high percentage of our serotonin, which is the happy hormone that is produced in the gut. So a couple of things that founders can do is, as we said, eat mindfully, because if you're eating mindlessly, then that's going to disrupt the gut with those large particles that can give rise to higher levels of the poor bacteria that we don't want. I think also consuming more pre and probiotic rich foods in the diet. So probiotic rich foods, we're talking about yogurt, kefir, kombucha, sauerkraut, prebiotic rich foods, onions, garlics, leeks, bananas, chickpeas. So, you know, hummus and carrots, for example, would be a great way to increase more prebiotics into your diet.

11:30Great. That's great news. Definitely. All for that. So I'd say that from a gut health perspective, there's some key focuses. We also want to ensure that we're staying hydrated because that's another really common issue amongst founders is that, you know, busy day, busy life, they forget to drink. And especially when it's colder, our bodies tend not to tell us so much, you know, we're not sweating out as much excess sweat so therefore we don't feel as thirsty but if we allow ourselves to become dehydrated we're more likely to crave sugar because we feel tired so if we can stay hydrated throughout the day we're less likely to feel tired and therefore you're less likely to crave sugar and those snacks that you think that you need to kind of give you an energy boost so water really will replace chocolate in my life if I actually drink enough of it well I mean there's there's definitely a place for chocolate as well but on a day-to-day basis I really think that hydration is fundamental and I will always encourage people you know can you have a large bottle of water on your desk if you're traveling around make sure you're carrying a bottle of water and people often say I forget I forget there are some amazing apps that remind you and we have apps for everything nowadays right we have notifications for everything so there's no excuse to say that you you don't like it or you don't want it you just have to prioritize it exactly and I think there's a lot things like I joke in our communications consultancy that PR is always the bottom of people's priority list but when it comes to health and wellness sleep and water are also the bottom of people's to-do list like oh I can just push it I can push it and my hack is when I'm at my desk I have a bottle that I have to finish with in the morning and it's fill it up and finish it in the afternoon but traveling I find really hard to remember water especially going through airports you don't want to buy another plastic bottle how other than the app reminders is it something you just have to get in the daily practice of?

13:20Are there any hacks you can give people how to conquer that? So I think the reminders help you to get into the daily practice. Once you're in the practice, and you'll probably also be able to resonate with this as well, you'll start to notice more when you're feeling dehydrated. So you know what those feelings feel like. I think when you allow yourself consistently to become dehydrated, it's very easy for the brain to misinterpret those signals as hunger. So if anyone's ever experienced it where you think you're hungry, so you eat something and you don't feel satisfied. So you eat something again, you still don't feel satisfied.

13:55So you have a glass of water and you think, oh, that was it. I'm satisfied now. That's initially where you've misinterpreted those thirst signals for being hungry. So the more that you do stay hydrated, the more in tune you become with the signals that your body is trying to give you. So interesting and also really, really important. Many, many levels. It's almost like we need to write a handbook of sleep, eat, exercise, drink, water, repeat, and just do those basics and then the rest will come. Are there certain food groups that we should be more conscious of? I mean, I've recently been working with a trainer and he's saying you don't eat enough protein.

14:27And I was like, what's protein? And I'm very, very, very poorly informed on those sorts of things. But is there a particular ratio you recommend between fruit, veg, protein, all this kind of thing? So generally speaking, when it comes to protein, I think that there's sort of two camps at the minute. We've got the people who are protein, protein, protein, and consuming vast amount of protein supplements and protein bars. And then we've also got those who probably like yourself don't consume enough protein. Protein is really important for supporting everything from hair structure, skin structure, hormone production, brain function, or general wellbeing, supporting our hormones to go to sleep, mental wellbeing.

15:05So it plays a crucial role. Generally speaking, we want around 1 to 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram body weight so take 70 kilogram individual we're looking at around 70 grams of protein per day with regards to sort of what that should look like I always recommend breaking up your meals and snacks so I think three meals a day for most people some people will like to have a snack in the afternoon some people like to have a snack in the morning and there's no wrong or right way of doing this at all it's very much about you one thing that I do always say is try to ensure that you've got when you're thinking about your meals 50 % of your meals to be fruits or vegetables so if we're thinking about lunch and dinner really 50 % of your plate should be vegetables and that's a great way to ensure that you're getting in variety you're getting in a wide range of nutrients and also you're supporting your gut health because vegetables are crucial you know they contain different fiber types they also contain different plant chemicals, which can be really beneficial for our gut.

16:06So generally speaking, that's what I would say. I think the other thing that we really want to focus on are those snacks. Is snacking good or bad? Because we've heard so much in the press about avoid snacking, it'll peak your sugar or things like that. What's your advice on that? Yeah, you're so right. You know what? The press can make things so complicated and it's great that people are talking about nutrition, but sometimes it can just seem really, really confusing. So generally speaking, I don't think that snacking is bad at all. And actually for some people, it enables them to get from one meal to the next, maintaining their energy levels.

16:39If you are someone who feels like you need a snack and you are denying yourself, come dinner, you're more likely to feel ravenous. Your blood sugar levels are more likely to be very low. So as a result of that, you're much more likely to overeat at dinner time. So snacking can be really helpful. It's about what you snack on, right? So it's those high sugar chocolate bars and the biscuit that you have with the tea or a slice of cake or a muffin that you pick up with your coffee. They're the things we want to try to avoid and we want to focus on more protein rich and more fiber rich snacks. That's what's going to keep you fuller so longer.

17:13So in practice what does it look like? Things like roasted chickpeas which are now becoming more and more accessible are great snacks. They can be really delicious, they're high in fiber, high in protein boiled eggs if you're at home just boiling up loads of eggs keeping them in their in your fridge even they'll keep for a few days so that's a really good snack as well some oat cakes with some cream cheese or as we said before hummus and carrots a handful of nuts if you're traveling for example it's really easy to keep a bag of nuts in your bag a little yogurt as well maybe with some berries on top and some cinnamon cinnamon can help stabilize your blood sugar levels.

17:50So lots of different things that can be really nutritious snacks. We don't have to totally avoid snacks entirely. Okay, good to know. And in terms of cooking, you hear the rainbow, have lots of different colourful things, mix it up, don't just eat the same thing all the time. Again, coming back to time, how would you advise a founder to sort of map their week or their month? Is it just being thoughtful about that planning and thinking ahead? What hacks would you give them on that front? Look, in an ideal world, thinking ahead would be amazing and we'd all plan our meals and it would be great. But truthfully, often we don't have time for that.

18:25So a few things I think are really important is know where to go on the days that you're short of time. So know what you can pick up from the supermarket. Nowadays, there are some really great brands that do ready-made dolls or stews or soups that you can pick up, particularly in the winter months you know it's super warming they're really nourishing really delicious and I'm not talking about sort of old-fashioned ready meals at all there are some really really great brands in the supermarket so have a look what's available to you and know where to go so that you're removing that decision on the days that you're short of time you know equally knowing that you can go and pick up a can of salmon and a ready-made salad for lunch and you can just throw the salmon or tuna whatever you want into a salad and you're good to go some baked falafel balls that you can buy now they're really excellent you can add to sort of ready-made quinoa or rice so just knowing where you can go ideally if you do have time to cook and you enjoy cooking spend some time on the weekend if you've got any batch cooking maybe use it as an opportunity to catch up on a podcast as well call a friend if you've got a family spend some time with the family get everyone involved and use the freezer as well so soups stews curries pre-done sort of chicken and pre-marinated chicken and salmon can be really good so try to be prepared but if you can't be prepared know your options is what I'm saying I think I got a bit too prepared a couple weeks ago I made this massive batch of lentil and carrot soup with um chili in it and I made so much I am now so sick of eating it I go to the office and try and give it away to all the co-working spaces I'm in like please somebody else help me run this down and our freezer is full so I'm like itching to finish that so I can then batch cook something else but I think yeah the variety of it I think is important.

20:12And I read, I think it was Ella Mills was talking about how important spices and herbs can be. Are they really effective in balancing out your diet? Definitely. So they've got a couple of roles. Firstly, from a nutrition perspective, they increase diversity. They've got different nutrients in their different plant chemicals. So again, that's going to help to nourish those beneficial bacteria in the gut. But the other thing with them is that they make food exciting and they make food interesting and I always say to people yes nutrition is vital but the most important thing is that you enjoy your food because if you're not enjoying your meal you're not enjoying your food then the chances are you're going to find something that's probably a little bit more delicious a little bit higher in salt sugars that you know so getting creative I think is really important for having fun with it and learning and finding out what flavors you like what maybe you don't like what goes together and you can't go you really can't go wrong you really can't and I was brought up three meals a day breakfast is the most important meal of the day is that true so no in in short I don't believe it is um there are people who the thought of breakfast makes them feel physically sick so who are they're mad I love breakfast but yeah with fasting I can do without it but yeah I a good breakfast I don't know each their own but yes sorry continue no I know I love a good breakfast as well I mean I don't understand it but I'm definitely aware of it so for those people trying to make them eat breakfast is not going to be beneficial that's not a great start to their day for those individuals I'd say wait until you do feel hungry and then make sure that you are eating a great option whatever that may be if it's lunchtime making sure that you've got a meal that is packed with vegetables with whole grains you know, a source of protein, lentils, beans, chickpeas, meat, fish, whatever it may be.

22:05For the people who do eat breakfast, it's about what you're eating for breakfast. So if you're eating a muffin and a coffee, then that's definitely not the most important meal of the day. But if you're really nourishing yourself with a good bowl of creamy oats topped with some peanut butter, some flaxseed, a dash of cinnamon and some fresh berries, or you're having some eggs on some whole grain toast maybe you're having some smoked salmon with some avocado and some scrambled tofu or some eggs in there that's what's more important is what you're eating for breakfast rather than are you eating breakfast there's definitely some research to suggest that those who eat breakfast feel less hungry later on in the day and eat less later on in the day but we're all really unique and it is really about listening to yourself and if you're someone who just doesn't get on with breakfast then I'm definitely not telling you that you have to jump out of bed and have breakfast.

22:57And the same applies, I guess, for an evening meal. Lots of people say you shouldn't eat past 8pm or don't have carbs after 2pm or all of these sort of banded about myths. What do you advise in terms of times of day to eat that help you? So if people can, I would always try to say eat earlier if you can. So we do know that eating too close to going to bed can have a negative impact on your sleep. And that's because a couple of things happen. Firstly, your body is so focused on digesting your food that the melatonin, which is your sleep hormone, which is secreted and absorbed in your gut, isn't going to be as efficient because the body is essentially distracted with the food that you've just eaten.

23:34But secondly, when you want to go to sleep, your core body temperature needs to drop. When you are digesting a heavy meal, your core body temperature increases. So that causes a little bit of internal conflict. Does it? God, I had no idea. Yes. I mean, the other sleep thing, someone said your feet need to be warmer than the rest of you to fall asleep. But all of these things, the temperature is quite interesting, especially as it's chilly in the UK right now. I've not heard that about the feet, but that's really interesting. I just have to start putting those socks on before bed. But yeah, so I think timing can be important.

24:05But at the same time, having said that, if someone gets back from the office at 10pm, 11pm and they're hungry, then you definitely shouldn't skip a meal and think, well, I shouldn't eat. Maybe just have something a little bit lighter. So a bowl of soup or some eggs, for example. If you're someone who consistently gets back late, then I would say try to have a larger lunch and then just know that your dinner is just going to be a lighter option anyway. And I think that that is probably the best approach. Again, though, some people have shift work where they work throughout the night and therefore that might impact their timings of their meals as well.

24:41So we have to work with what's realistic. unfortunately we just don't live in an ideal world as much as we would like to and if someone's starting a company and they're putting all the plates in the air where should they go to find and inform themselves on nutrition how can they find you or any books that you recommend that they could read any information would be great for sure so i'm online at jenna hope nutrition on instagram i share lots of recipes tips and tricks and my whole ethos is make it so easy that you can't say no so if you prepare yourself you know where to go you know what to look for you're putting it there on a plate for yourself that you just you can't not do it with regards to other resources so I think trying to find maybe a cookbook that you like or a good app that you enjoy can be helpful everyone's got totally different tastes and opinions and I think that that's a good place to start there is the optimum nutrition bible which to be honest it's probably a little bit outdated now but it's a book that really, really got me interested initially.

25:40And it's the foundations of nutrition. And so if someone is interested, it's an old classic, but I do recommend it by Patrick Holford. Thank you. And then we've started asking previous guests to ask a question for our next guest. So Jamie, who's the founder of The Breath Space, wanted to ask you, if you could go back and give your 18-year-old self one piece of advice, what would that be? I think it would be be confident in your abilities. As a founder, you are faced with different challenges every day, new situations that you may not know how to navigate. But if you're confident in your decisions and you're confident in your capabilities, then that's the most important thing.

26:21And I'd also tell myself work hard and it will work out all right. You'll be all right. That's lovely. And is there a question you'd like to ask our next guest? Yeah, I think so. So I think if they could focus on one thing in their life to improve, what would it be? Thank you so much, Jenna. It's been really informative. I mean, we could go on for hours because it's such a huge topic, but I really appreciate the advice that you shared. Thank you so much for having me, Juliet. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for listening to our 12 Days of Christmas from How to Start Up. If you have enjoyed this episode, please rate and review the show because it honestly makes a massive difference to the podcast being found by other people.

26:56and to me as your host, it's nice to know you're there. Our normal scheduling will resume in January 2026 and we wish you a very, very merry festive season and hope you get some rest.