14 Guerrilla Marketing & Storytelling Strategies To Go Viral  for FREE - SULT founders

55:30When you do like, you go like, ugh. Yeah, exactly. Some of my videos I'll be like, right. Or like, hmm. And that's just a hook. It's so simple and slow. Yeah, yeah. It's against what everyone else is doing. It's exactly making what everyone else, yeah. What other ways do you, how other ways? What other ways do you swim against, like use some of those real delicious nuance? It's really hard because like you said, it sometimes just comes so naturally. Yeah. like let's say the last week we were doing some stories what would oh of the boxes and how we went from zero from the idea of the box you know how you were like this is a really good story oh yeah yeah um what was that it was basically evolving the whole process so it was a case of showing it so that okay that's an example that was all the way so i did like some stories of um so we did a reel of our us showing these trays in boots and we're talking about the trays and everything and i uploaded a it's like everything before that yeah then the reel was the piece of puzzle that's missing exactly so everything before that was just like how we got from the idea of soul and the box and then the end of the box right and the sorry i'm not really making sense the end of like the product um and these are all in like instagram stories after those initial stories of like showing the journey of soul i then put up the reel of the tray because that was the next in in that it gives the tray context exactly it gives us where where it started as like a ideation a baby and then where it was born in a fucking like store in boots so it's like if you just posted the reel it's like exactly yeah oh i've already peaked you need to add context do a bit of foreplay here's the beat yeah and and also like i think a lot of people they don't nurture their stories enough on instagram like they're either just doing it sporadically or they're trying to add and condense a lot of information in one story when really there's so much information you can like spread out brooklyn beckham yesterday yeah across a few like a few stories see his stories yesterday i thought i'd like when he was like his brand beckham i was like oh he's getting like i can just imagine that's his trust fund and then yeah that cotswold mansion just be like david darling we've got a problem like oh my pot's got a bit bigger yeah yeah yeah yeah not great i actually saw him i was in the um have you been like the bull in cholebury yeah i've been that to that pub that's by i'm staying there yeah but man i was outside having a cigarette and i was like these American, like, I thought they were yobs, basically.

58:08They're like, yo, what are you saying? Whatever. And I was like, one of those kids looks really recognisable. And then another fucking van pulls up. Security. Security. Another van pulls up. I was like, this is getting a bit crazy. Bex, Gary Neville, fucking all of them come bowling out because he just got his knighthood. Oh, mad. Obviously, Brooklyn, whatever his name is, Brooklyn wasn't there. But... I was going to start a brand of Brooklyn. Really? What's the brand? During second year uni. So when I was like 22, it was a male. You guys are the same mate? How old are you guys? I think he is, yeah.

58:44So it's my, I'm 28. 28. So it was my really good mates was going out with his cousin. And we had an idea to basically create a male makeup brand. I still think it's a good idea. It's called Bello, handsome in Italian. Basically Bello. Bella, but O at the end. So Bello. Is handsome in Italian. Yeah, yeah. It's got loads. Yeah. So basically there's a. Bella, Bella. Bella. Yeah. so basically like every bloke pretty much when they're like 18 to like 24 will use their girlfriends or sisters makeup to hide a spot at some point even use like fake tan half the time but as soon as you do that in a sort of over feminine way it's like actually if you've got a cool creator to do it and you basically de-stigmatize that that's really cool so we're speaking to the beckham family i was like holy fucking shit brooklyn beckham's world went to the pub with him and nicola pelts it was sick like spoke to the brooklyn um brooklyn the beckham family in terms of like the whole like um like the management went to the house and it's hamsters fucking fat pad sick yeah yeah um yeah eating like you know that uh pub where you had the pints of prawns uh the cow yeah that's the best pub in london mate sick mate mate the food there is it's just insane and you can just have a rowdy piss up in there where's that again it's in notting hill in um it's one of the best pubs going it's like really good like and you went to the Pelican.

59:57It's not Fountain of Pelican. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they play, I did my birthday there in September and it's just great. Like they haven't touched it so it's not like it hasn't been gastro pubified. It's like a tiny little like cooking area. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really, yeah. It's like it looks almost shit but by doing so it looks beautiful. It's so shit it's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love those pubs. And then what happened? So what's the... So that was then... So when you went to the Beckham's, did you... Well, I remember so... Would they give you, like, coffee or, like... No, so it was mad.

1:00:28So we... Gave you some electrolytes. Oh, I didn't know that. No, we went to... So we went to the house, went to dinner with them all. What's her name? David and... What's her name? Victoria. They weren't there. It was all, like, the other extended family. What's her name? Just the two main ones. But it was, like, it was crazy because, like, we'd go there and, like, there'd be security, like, microphones, like, we're in these huge cars with, like, a fleet of these cars behind us. And obviously, we were there, like, 22, be like lads we're not going to steal them don't worry I think you'll smash us you're massive so we went through the stage we had all these huge pitch decks we're working with do you know Pearl Fisher I know you know yeah yeah Ben Branson Jonathan Fisher I don't know Ben's a good mate but yeah yeah you're friends with the other guy what's his name from Perry Perry from Big Fish Big Fish they're like competing branding agencies they're huge in London have you sat with Perry no you guys should meet him he's a fucking legend you really like him yeah big fan Basically, if you go to Waitrose, everywhere you look, like, Tyrrell's.

1:01:27It's all him. So you did Tyrrell's, Charlie Bigham, Goo, Coconut Collaborative. Oh, love, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fucking Merchant Gourmet. I think, like, you know, Crossamolica, the pizza brand? Yeah, yeah. Oh, is that how you say it? I've never known how you say it. Yeah, well, this is one of their big issues. I've never known how you say that. They were doing a pay shop market research. But they were, like, showing people, oh, do you know this brand? And everyone was like, oh, it's the one with the stripes. Yes. We had to change it because no one knew the fuck. He's a genius. It's like St. Pierre.

1:02:00Is it St. Pierre? You know, the brioche. Yeah, the brioche. Yeah, so like that was one of my dad's companies in Newcastle. Oh, what's his name? I don't know what his dad's called. Yeah, because his dad was going to come on the podcast. Oh, fuck. We just need to get the dates for that. But that's what they're called. They did market research and it was, oh, the Orange Bread Company. So this is Perry's whole thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So actually they didn't over-index on the name because St. Pierre didn't read anything to them. Wait, is it Milner? David Milner? No, maybe he was the director. So David Milner was the CEO.

1:02:26Anyway, we're getting really into the genetics. So basically, that was the whole thing. The whole premise of the thing was, right, sweet. Don't over-index on the name. Over-index on the colour. And that actually brings back to Salt, unintentionally. Like, Salt is the yellow. Oh, the yellow electrolyte brand. You know what I mean? So, like, massively off-tangent, actually, kind of free-circle, that full-circle moment. Where the fuck? Well, that's good enough. Bright yellow. But, like, if you look at us compared to all the competitors, we have pretty much the most aggressive brand colour. Like, bright yellow.

1:02:51You can't miss that, can you? and like just one color yeah i feel like just one block color i feel like with a so do you look at the the landscape at the category and think how do we stand out or do you look actually bigger like what's your take on we always think like against the grain don't we yeah but it is like we again it always comes back to like what would we want like what what would as we as customers what would we pick up what would we see what would we like we like a bit of fashion that was a really So I was at the train station going back home. I was in East Croydon, not where you want to be.

1:03:26But I sat there with a pair of new shoes from Nike. So I was like, I just bought a new pair of shoes. And Millie sent me a picture that exact day. Yes, yes, yes. I was like, I love this colour. And I was like, holy shit, Millie, look what shoes I just got. And I have these bright yellow Nikes. And we're like, is that a sign? And I literally in the message, remember it. It's like, is that the universe talking? And that day we made it this colour. So it was like a slight, like, well, obviously it's like a Pantone we use. But like, it was, we like that colour. Let's make that a brand colour. but I think like the creativity is a lot about noticing anomalies in plain sight and like if it's to your taste yeah again this is keep I don't know why I've been listening to reading a lot about John's book recently but he's like you can you can do whatever you want in the world but the hardest thing and actually it's sorry it's not John it's Paul Smith you know the designer yeah we're trying to get him on and uh he's got a great thing about creative creativity and like I'll send you it's really short to read but it's like the hardest thing the world is having a fucking point of view like you can be good at anything but actually developing your own taste and point of view is really hard and i think a lot of it is what am i doing and um i love the beatles right and so you um their famous albums so the beatles the sergeant pepper's lonely heart heart club band i think that's it but basically he was on paul mccartney was on a fucking plane they've come and brought him salt and pepper and it's like bang sp writes that down and the idea it comes but it's come from his fucking experience yeah exactly that could be you buying shoes in croydon if that's your but that's not easy to people because most people think i need to go and do a market research thing ship some consumers in a room and they're not going to tell you what they want like you know what i mean that's what we just said it's like people deep shit for their own value add like all these companies have these fucking mad people who are on stupid like salaries a year yeah and it's like you're doing extra work to prove that you're valuable in this company whereas like we have a thing where like you know if i say if melissa so he says it like whatever yeah i don't give a shit like if it's a good idea go with it yeah like you don't need to have a state it's what we're saying earlier about status and it's the same with content as well like people will try so hard to like copy other people's content because they think that's going to do well and it's like actually if you just think yourself what what can we do with our brand or like what would we'll just just think creativity then that's actually when when it'll do well for you like it's always just being authentic to yourself which is really cliche to say but and also in a weird way like if you then think about it it's probably going to mean exactly so you're going to put my effort into it and come across yes exactly and care you know what I mean yeah comes from the heart well that's what I get with my newsletter when I write my newsletter every week yeah go for it is that the one like that literally it doesn't really it doesn't really grow I have some water as well I'm getting a bit parched over here but like do you want a salt?

1:06:03yeah let's get you some salt I've been using I've been using I've been using I've been using I've been using I've been using I've been using I'll convert you from Fez. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm still waiting for those samples, mate, that you...

1:06:16SULT founders:Did you send me your address? I don't think I did, mate. Yeah, we'll send you some. What's the name, mate? I think... Peach or... Yeah, let's do peach. Do you want peach or mango? What do you prefer? Peach. Let's do peach. So, like, to be honest, I've started banging it in with creating in the morning. Yeah. Wow. I mean, this is five... I'm five days in. Right, nice. I was in Thailand for a year just getting pissed, so, like, wasn't doing anything. any of this but i do feel way better like i feel like more like five days in that's good i haven't even tried salt yet do you know how the milligrams of of salt in fits i don't think you do do you no really put you on the spot what um do you use creatine for like the cognizant effects um mate i just i got i got back from holiday and felt like a bit of a porker so i was like i need get tonk just get creatine so I get some creatine magic potion it's a bigger bloke it's so simple oh sick oh these also where did you get all this all this merch stuff from have you got like a link Henry's got yeah Henry's got a good contact my G called Nikki yeah yeah sick it's nice and cold as well obviously yeah um what was I going to say yeah we have like different um we got we got only we got my bottle down here oh mate that's delicious Say that in the mic Delicious No we definitely like We are always Going to vouch for the best tasting An actual light for sure You've got to believe in your product so much that you have to You know you can say that all the time 100 % so what are other ways I think I read a thing about the best advice We ignored The best advice is to be ignored No no no no No no no oh sorry the carousel all the advice ignored yeah yeah yeah no i was thinking i've really butchered that from a research so chaotic in here isn't it no yeah these are the most fun conversations when it's just literally just like all over the shop but um yeah so not the advice we ignored yeah talk me through some of those like what what is your what's your reasoning for ignoring good advice for like the decision behind that the why behind that decision to like if someone tells you something an expert and you sort of fuck it off why sometimes it just doesn't feel right yeah i've always i don't know henry probably has a different answer to me but i've always just thought like it might work for them but it just might not work for us like we're always doing something like things change all the time every single day overnight like you actually never know what is going to work unless you try and what's that saying where it's like you only learn the best if you make from your mistakes or something like that yeah and yeah i'd rather make a mistake and then learn from that then to dodge all the mistakes and just take any one piece of advice and you know you're you're moving around like crazy if because people are telling you all these different things you actually don't know what to believe um that's such it's also what you said yeah you were saying how like just because they've lived it and the expertise say it it's like well things change every day yeah so they were an expert like expert what five days ago five years ago yeah what about tomorrow what about 10 years time like you know if we were told marketing advice it's like sweet well i'd rather listen to someone with 600 000 followers on social media than your agency with a thousand followers do you know i mean it's like i think i know i'm listening to her yeah yeah yeah yeah i saw a quote that said like the best advice is to something about the best advice is to not ask anyone or something oh yeah if you want the worst if you something about if you want the worst advice ask everyone navarravacan do you know him yes that's my i posted on my story did you yeah you actually do listen to what i say well he says yeah he's a clever fucker he's such he's like my favorite his book yes i keep telling soviet to read it oh it's like it's the best story the almanac of rava rava rava can it's a bit what does that mean an almanac is like in fact mate if you like his read because it's based on that the almanac uh poor charlie's almanac yeah almanac's a bit of a mouthful it's like a like i don't know like almost like teachings yeah charlie charlie um munger was warren but yeah right a man right a man his book is fucking incredible if you're like the compound interest i think it's just i mean it's got all these different like mental frame frame yeah like his rule of inversion right so it's like if you the rule of inversion so basically it's like so basically he goes really clever guy right billionaire goes to this um to do a talk at um at i think harvard university like a commencement speech you know when they all don't they've finished they've all got their robes on and shit and uh he's like well people ask me to give you a talk about how to be happy and he goes well that's kind of fucking uh bollocks wasn't obviously say that he's like he goes actually the best the best knowledge is inversion so always invert always invert so instead i'm going to tell you how to live a life of misery and you just avoid that so he basically says um he basically says like be unreliable take drugs drink uh resentment because if you just avoid those things you'll be happy and i've asked that as a question to brands like if you wanted to decimate your brand overnight and i asked it to giles brooke he's like the guy did viticoco yeah he's a really smart guy i was like if you wanted to kill your brand overnight through the rule of inversion like what would you do and like these little things he was like well we would we'd over invest in above the line media like atl campaigns whereas actually what you should do is just invest like you guys are a point of purchase yeah so it's just a really interesting um framing it goes the same with like selling as well like when you're selling a product actually tell people not like tell people not to buy it yes because then people will question like negative sell yeah yeah but even it's like we did ads where we were like don't buy this if you are someone who has a really high salt sodium intake and you're sitting at a desk all day every day and you don't move and blah blah blah like you are not the customer for salt don't buy us but if you if you are exactly yeah the whole whole brand building is psychology sorry the whole brand building is psychology so it's like you just got to build other like yes so again we're getting really going around and so no no no no we get like when you listen to the pot like it goes it's why people like it because it's just nice there's no like fucking structure yeah um but the the the layers of psychology because we're talking talking about these different principles so the other it was almost like almost the negative sell or the and reverse it's like going back to the emails we were talking about earlier it's like yeah by doing what all the brands don't do by not selling a product but selling a feeling you're more likely to make more sales do you know i mean really yeah yeah yeah so like the emails themselves or like even the videos or the messaging it's like if you look at okay put it strip it all back what have humans been from a completely evolutionary stance as like what we what are we we're like pretty much pack animals right yeah we live in in small packs or like i don't know what the word is for humans tribes tribes right we live in tribes and what are we moving into now more and more an anti-tribe culture where people are losing connection with people through social media we're basically trying bridge that together by creating like a community of like a tribe per se in a brand yep so with that you're the psychology is right we're not going to build a or sell a product we're going to sell a tribal feeling of being part of something for example you guys are choosing our box design you know what i mean so it's like you all created our box so you're part of this brand and you have emotional buy-in to the brand so you can say i was a part of that brand being built you know what i mean so it's like if you just strip things back to like their very basics it's not that complicated well it's it's the human again this is seth godin things a marcy um genius he says the only three things humans need to survive a status it's like are we up are we down connection do we feel part of something and freedom from fear like are you like is there is there a gorilla coming to eat us are we going to get kicked out of the tribe and left what a niche animal you chose in that yeah yeah yeah or like a fucking whatever uh and uh and it's exactly what you're doing so like people buy salt they feel status like we helped design that product the connection if you guys do do a sick party we were there the freedom of fear it's like if you're part of our tribe like it's there's a timeless um brand building principle but i feel like once you see the status thing you see it like everywhere status key as well so like i did a post on linkedin i fucking love and it like it kind of popped off and it was like rule one of brand building build an instagrammable product because like if you look at salt i mean i don't want to like slag off some brands but like there's some other brands like star face start exactly yeah so let's say brocca what have you ever seen someone do a story of brocca yeah because like probably some sad git somewhere but you know i mean like you you want to say building a brand that has status and meaning that you want to put it on your instagram swipe carousel stories reels whatever because it's being part of something more than just a product or a brand it's like salt isn't just an electrolyte it's everything else it's a lifestyle yeah i think we're in the age now and this is the dirty guys were talking about it we did like a supper club and panel yeah they were on andrew was on the panel perry the guy we've been talking about was on the panel and they're like brands it's not about standing out on shelf anymore yeah it's do you fit in at vivian westwood fashion studio do you fit in at the F1 box?

1:15:48Do you fit in? And it's that reframing, which is... What is an accessory? Like what can be... Yes. Salt is an accessory. I have a week on the chat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where it's like, what brands align... With your brand. What are some of your favourite brands? Like not just anywhere. Like anywhere. No, but as in like, what brands do you guys really like aspire to and emulate in this category? I mean, we always like, it's quite cliche, but Rode is always such a... really interesting one to look at. Hayley, are you there? I don't actually know that. No, no one. No, no, no. Like, so they, they, they do.

1:16:24You're speaking to a bloke about a makeup brand. Yeah. I thought you were talking about road microphones. I was like, that's quite boring. I was like, fair enough. They're really good on like feeling and like. World building. Yeah. And trend, they're very, they're really good trendsetters as well, because they actually do the opposite of trends, which makes it a trend. Does that make sense? Yeah. so unpack that a bit more so like sometimes okay so let's say um their most recent well actually wasn't most recent it was in summer they did a campaign um in on a beach in like the armalfi or whatever and they're so basically it's like a lip lip product if you don't know road um and their their brand color that month was yellow um but the trending color was is yellow and throughout that whole year but they kind of went more of like a it wasn't like it was like a lemon yellow as opposed to a very like subtle pastel yellow it was like such a different like small difference but it made that campaign really pop because like that is now that like that color was now the new trend the lemon yellow as opposed to this like pastel yellow that everyone else was using and then after that like lemon yellow was trending yeah do you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah yeah so they they're like always going anti-trends which really works but also i think the other thing is that it's almost like the blandemic of brands in the sense that they all start to look the same you see this in like exactly yeah protein bars basically happen with oat milk dairy oat milks or like whatever you want to call them um it makes me laugh when you go to a cafe and be like is it cow's milk i'm like mate that's what you're like yeah for milk real milk yeah it's just milk

1:18:09but anyway the dairy oat milk whatever they all it converges and they start to look the same do you worry about that of people coming in and say say hypothetical question here you know trip went first with theirs now a lot of the brands coming in kind of similar to that in the cbd space if someone wants to come in and start trying to not nab your yellow nab the semiotics of your brand how what would you do in that situation we had this issue right at the start and it was like it was something that we had to kind of actually wisen up to because we're both quite leery people and we say exactly how it is and we wear our heart on our sleeves which is really good but also terrible because we're ripe for like getting something wrong by saying like fuck you so this is kind of the evolution of like we had a lot of brands pretty much like copy us and it was like we could either waste time complaining like going on about it or we can be like sweet they're copying us let's carry on so we've got so much better it's ignoring it because like ultimately like what's the point because also the founder of grenade we did a podcast with him g he was basically said if i don't know my next move how can someone else you know what you're saying about the five minute versus five year thing it's like yeah the better weather you might be doing like you might be doing an interstellar thing next on clap and comment before like and i think that's yeah that's fascinating yeah it's fact yeah because i think and also people can't uh the feeling part they'll no one will ever be able to copy no one can replace like us too yeah but i also i think the anger comes out of like pure passion though because like we put so much time and effort and stuff and it's like seeing a brand with a load of like vc money come and just try and do it it's like it's really disrespectful not from a brand perspective but from a human to human way it's like go fuck yourself do you know what i mean like we have spent hours doing this with like minimal resources like pure creativity finding a way to do it you come along look at it be like sweet here's some money go and do it it's like have some respect yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's inevitable though like it is what it is and also it's like it's definitely like our own egos and pride getting in the way so like as long as you strip away our own egos which we're definitely getting better at because like you have to i think the better also i feel like the whole thing with um you know people say like don't have an ego in business you have to so all these these are all old boys who've made their dough yeah right and it's like this this is again this is a will will store thing because if we're all buddhists and we're all sat there going like namaste like we wouldn't have society we need ego and aggression hundred percent insecurity and doubt to make you better because when you do get someone copying what happens you go harder exactly yeah and it's like sadly it's just you have winners and losers in life and like you have to not be a loser like you do again from an evolutionary perspective like winners keep winning so like against a brand way like we have to keep winning against other brands otherwise we will just go bankrupt make it very simple so we've got to keep fighting and winning against how do you so you when you start your week take me into like the war room in onesworth the war room but like what is how do you plan out your i know we let's just look on a weekly basis because i feel like a there's a what does he say oh not a complexity but like a the kind of chaos chaoticness of your lives and brands is such an unfair advantage do you know i mean because i feel like i'm wrong there but like how do you go in and plan your week and allow elements of just kind of crazy to manifest we don't plan our week no that's how we allow it yeah only tuesdays we have together only tuesdays yeah and then it's kind of mondays and fridays have a call so we sandwich our week with what we're going to do this week what's someone's agenda how did this we go that's our new that's so sick but like so sick ultimately we always say this as well it's a case of like i don't ever want to work someone for the reason of like structure yes like i can't live with structure yeah yeah so i don't want to bring structure into our own company because i would then hate doing it do you know what i mean so it's like for example like today it's like we had to do a video so we're going to do it didn't work so we have to figure out another way to do it so that's just going to have to happen at some point do you know what i mean so it's like we could either just bat heads right or we just find another time to do it this week yeah yeah yeah so you just find a way yeah yeah yeah yeah and then tomorrow we're in asos doing some yoga thing and there's no plan for it no plan for it we're just gonna walk up yeah we need is the best strategy and we were just saying so much fun as well it's creative yeah yeah yeah so like for context we're gonna they asos and adidas are doing like a um employee wellness couple hours where they're doing like yoga and stuff in the asos like whatever it is hq so we're gonna go sophie's gonna join in with Pilates where me and Millie are going to basically do a hijack ASOS and try and find like buyers internally into their office space and they're going to fill with being like right we've left Sophie to be like the decoy we're going to fuck off and try and find the buyers to get sold in ASOS but this is just a floating idea in our head we have not even thought about how we're actually going to execute this we're just going to try yeah but it's again it's like you've already thought about a story yeah it's mad take me into the sort of how have you changed sort of briefly briefly talks about like ego and kind of that tempering down slightly 10 months since launch right is that right 11 11 yeah april 15th yeah quite a while ago yeah how have you guys changed like what good bad and ugly oh that's a good question have we changed individually or individually then we can get into the relationship between you guys because i feel like i'd love to see what That's like behind the scenes of the salt kind of media empire.

1:23:47Yeah. I mean, from my perspective, I, because I had no, I had no knowledge of the business world at all. I've only been in like the influencing social media world for the five years. And before that I graduated at uni. Like I really have not had a proper job. So like starting salt with Henry has been a real learning curve because not only am I now having to work with someone else, it's not just me. I've got responsibilities for like other people as well. So like that's been an interesting like switch in I guess my way of working. And then also having to navigate that alongside my influencing has been quite the journey.

1:24:27But I think like from the start of Salt to now I've really found a good rhythm, which I feel like is only gonna get better, which is really good. But in terms of like knowledge as well, learning a lot from henry we learn a lot from each other to be fair don't we and also now having sophie on board like that's a whole new dynamic and managing someone and then giving someone a to-do list as well as like giving yourself a to-do list is quite an interesting like change as well it's a lot of a lot of evolution in the past 11 months really is yeah what about you mate i mean i still got so much to improve on but i've definitely got better at like patience per se.

1:25:10I think when I first started, I was so on it the whole time. I'm so competitive, like too competitive for my own good. Really? Like negatively affecting like areas of my body. I always want to win. Like I'm very, like very sporty from when I was younger. Right. Were you like proper good at A's for everything sort of thing? Well, that's like a total douche. Yeah. Like I was sort of like playing like years above me, like I wanted to go pro. And like, well, first football, so I used to play for Brighton, then rugby. um and then like it kind of all got shattered down by the classic acl injury but it did yeah so i had my knees were farts got an operation january for january it's january yeah yeah in 10 days time my ankle um but like i i then translate that competitiveness into like what i'm now doing now so like business so when i see like what i want to do and what i want to achieve i'm like i need to get there and i want to beat everyone else getting there not for any sort of external reasons i think it's for myself because like i want to be like proud if that makes sense and in doing so i then probably make it detrimental for other people like as a collateral of that so like if someone hasn't done something if i'm too pushy on doing something it then causes like conflict and i'm getting better at like being a little bit more how does what how does the conflict manifest i guess it's like what i want to happen in my head versus what happens versus it's also like managing like managing expectations as well yeah and like communicating yeah i would say henry's very bad at communicating but like how so i think we're getting better like in terms i think like hen said he just he really when he has a goal or something in mind he just wants to do it and like i'm speaking for you i don't know you can back on like this but like a lot of the time henry will just do it and he won't tell anyone what's going on and he'll just do it himself because like that just seems like the most efficient and quickest way to do it whereas if he was to communicate what was going on i would then know exactly like my sort of 360 approach of what what i can do on my end how we can create content around this yeah but i think it'll like it'll henry will go so far into whatever it is he's working on and then he'll realize like oh shit socials are lacking something that's gone on there but i haven't told millie what was going on the thing that everyone do with salt is obviously like everything relies on everyone for it to work because it's storytelling throughout every process so when you say so what is this like so think about like a functional area there's operational 360 storytelling exactly yeah so like even our operation like if you look at all the boring bits you're telling to stories exactly so think about like a traditional business like everyone doing like numbers is just kept in their little like box of just like numbers so i just crack on with it whereas like that needs to be told to everyone because we're telling it that can that can tell a whole story and like that is How would you tell, because I just...

1:27:57Well, like, even that could be part of a story as well. Like, I said to Hen, there's... Think about this way. You're telling a story for a certain type of person. If you're telling four types of stories to four different type of people, it's going to click with something. Like, us talking about boxes might be really interesting to you, but Sophie might be really bored. See what I mean? So we talk about numbers, or let's say how much cash it takes to get us from X to Y, you might think, holy shit, they've only spent that much, or they've spent that much. Oh, my God. But then someone else might think that's really boring.

1:28:24So this is Tony Socoloni's principle is you need different... That's not a real name. I've already said Tony Socoloni. No, no, no. I'm sorry, that brand. Tony Socoloni. No, no, no. Sorry, that brand. So Tony Socoloni's thing is you need... They have this rule which is different doors into your brand. So like you have with their brand, for example, you have the ethics route. Yeah. Yeah. who like get all those kind of people in through the door you have the fat fuck like i'm hung over you want some thick chocolate you want the foodie you want the they do uh they're genius they they you can get any brand you can get salt salt branded uh chocolate bars so that's the corporate door that's fucking they've got one which would be but they're speaking every currency that's basically exactly exactly it but i feel like again this is probably a mistake i make is so many brands i think just think of what's your one customer yeah like what's your one what's your one niche niche it's like what actually how do we tell a panoply of different stories and on the flip side a big part of our niche is actually business owners like we we like viral on linkedin because of like like how to grow a business like how to grow a business and then businesses are actually then using that as inspiration so like some day some guy today um on that swipe post we spoke about earlier you know with the box evolution message hey mate this is class i'm gonna do it for my own agency it's like cool so he's looking at what we're doing right from a business like pillar per se yeah yeah and he's then applying it to his business yeah so like as long as like we don't necessarily want that because it's probably not a consumer or a buyer but it can potentially be because everyone is potentially a consumer or buyer see what i mean what's um you met simon squibb yeah uh what's he like what i think i've read or saw you say like simon squibb isn't a shithead or something like that did you say that someone's good as a shed isn't a shithead oh i did like a really clickbaiting like someone's quib is a fraud on linkedin that way yes yeah because um basically it was isn't a fraud isn't no it's a fraud is a fraud is what's like then i put dot dot is what i thought so basically that's a hook got people reading it then okay yeah um so yeah i mean so and how did that how did that his class yeah so weirdly met him um i was doing like a um I was helping a brand, actually Miles Signet, doing a shoot on like a Saturday or something in, what's that?

1:30:43Like insurance place. Sissy? Ledenhall Market. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that. And we're having a few beers because we're going to a party. About five beers deep at this point. You know, that sort of like, oh my God, like I'm not comfortable being on a camera sort of mode. Yeah, squiffy mode. That mode, yeah. And then my mate was like, oh my God, that's Simon Squibb. And I was like, oh God. Simon Squibb, yeah, sorry. Yeah, squiffy mode. So I was like, mate, I was like, hold my camera. And we sort of waited for half an hour. I was like I'm gonna speak to him I didn't care what anyone says and then all his team were like oh I was like very sweet and I just pushed him out the way I was like I need to do some of your time um and then we just got on really really well end up speaking to him for about half an hour and then he went silent for about three months and I was like this guy is full of shit isn't he like all these videos all this other stuff and I was actually about to out him on a video being like this guy's just full of shit like I can't believe he gets away with it then I got this message being like hey mate you're free next week and I was like sweet and then he's just been he's been brilliant like he's it always helped like anything we want advice like he'll just again i just thought there's this bloke walking around with a selfie stick i mean we haven't we haven't taken any of his money or anything like that but what he does is he funds people's dreams businesses though before that he had a mad market agency and i think it's hong kong i think he sold it for like 500 million oh she's got serious coin serious bank yeah yeah yeah and his whole thing is like you know anyone can actually achieve any business they want to and he tries to get them from zero to one basically so like the whole idea was like do you need money or blah blah blah blah and i was like we can we've got this we want to do ourselves um but that's what he does to people like obviously some people have um like are less fortunate like you know we had some savings that we can put into it and then they were allowed to achieve i don't know let's say like getting their brand from zero to one essentially yeah yeah yeah and then when you did that thing with him where he draws on his thing the slot no no no oh the strada i saw the youtube no no didn't you do like a session with him like what's oh you did a sit down yeah yeah yeah yeah what did he what did he teach you about business like what's he taught you like what's some of his i mean obviously being very black and white like absolutely nothing because like let's be honest like i do think business is so over complicated like people this is agencies and stuff like that make money through the discrepancy of knowledge that actually you can learn on youtube and chat gdp like you know yes to you know get more cash flow in the bank you can raise money you can borrow you can loan i knew that you know what i mean like all this type of stuff but some people don't know that because they i'm very good at self-learning like i will learn something if i don't know it whereas i don't think anyone knows that and like telling videos and stories like that again just layman laymanizes is that a word layman is layman turns it for everyone yeah so like we do on the whiteboards like we layman it for the everyday person to understand in a business sense because we're not business experts but we know probably 10 more than the general public so doing in a layman term make it accessible for everyone yeah so like you know like the the video with Simon Squibb it's like we're talking a language that maybe not everyone understands but we're doing it in a way that basically like you know like books for dummies yeah yeah yeah I hate those books because I don't think it's nice how they say it but like really speaking like you know you're probably an expert in podcasts now without even knowing it you know what i mean yeah yeah so like that's all you need to do like we are probably one step ahead of people in business so we can talk to people when you said like if business is what did you say it's over complicated 100 what ways you find like other examples of that well essentially all you're doing is you're buying a product for x and you're selling it for y how you get there is up to you but you know i mean like you're making money on the in-between process of x and y yeah so everyone talks about you know all this type of shit it's like yes but if you really break it all down there's different areas interesting would you say brand and business are different then brand and brands again brand building is also over complicated yeah okay so the business bit i get yeah i think brand building is personally for me yeah and that's why i think you guys are geniuses it because it just even just watching you fucking just come up with fucking stories like that a lot of people listen to this be like business is complicated like we're not getting this viral growth of you guys we're not it's It's really interesting.

1:34:44And we probably do take that for granted, but if you look at brands and you dissect it. Make brands simple for me. Okay, so you dissect it. So if I say brands to you, what comes to mind? EasyJet. Nike. Oh, sorry. Yeah, go. Yeah, Nike, Apple.

1:35:04Right, EasyJet. What comes to mind at EasyJet? Orange. Anything else? Plane. Okay. um dirty sorry go what's what's okay what's okay this is quick fire what are the three things okay okay okay Stanley Stanley cups uh cup yeah influencer gym there we go right um yeah Nike go again just do it there you go so that's a feeling so just do it what does just do it mean to you just fucking get your trotters on get out there boy exactly so they what they've done is they've they've told you that feeling and what they want to evoke through different methods of marketing right so you just go just do it means just crack on with what you need to do get out there and do it and they do that the most beautiful way through like athlete first marketing right they have that most amazing campaign with tom hardy of that fat kid running you see that video it's the best video i've ever seen it's this fat kid running basically being like find your greatness best video you'll ever That was inspired by the treadmill.

1:36:08Yeah, yeah. Squibs, Squibs. What's Squiby? Sorry, Squibs. I thought Squiby was in the brand. So let's say you're starting a... Sorry, for context, we did a video where Simon was running on the treadmill in the middle of Oxford Street. Yeah, I saw that. For salt. And that was inspired by this ad. The night card, yeah. But let's say, for argument's sake, you're building a dog walking business. What feeling do you want to give? You want to give freedom? so what is the seas in your water feeling like what is that is that or is that like that's a tagline that's a tagline but salt okay what does salt mean to you as in this brand yeah fun uh quirky creative exactly yeah so what you want to do as a brand if you own a brand is write the things you want to evoke and then work backwards from that by doing what you want to achieve so like we're obsessed with like the unhinged luxury side so through that we need to make luxury pillars and unhinged pillars to give off that fun quirky unique whatever thing you said there but i think like the end of the day if you're creating a product that like i said back to the beginning if you're the customer what do you want then you can't overthink it you just do like what literally what you want to do don't like don't always present preempt what people are going to think or assume what could do well because as soon as you assume something you're already like kind of adding friction to what you want or what you do you know what i mean yeah yeah don't build like full virality i don't think that's ever going to be accessible like all these sick legacy brands i've never built for like all these really cool like you know ald like campaigns they're not building for virality or views they're building for yeah feeling they want to give off i fucking love it um what i want to talk about the more of the more drudgery side like the finding the like so you guys met on hinge that's like the store even that's a fucking story when i saw that i was like this is so good so you meet on hinge and then how do you end up deciding to go into business and then what are the steps to we've kind of done the brandosphere side in terms of actually product like moqs all that less glamorous stuff like that when you haven't got massive investment it's hard like talk me through that journey so we met so we kind of knew each other in the industry because i i was obviously influencing you were working at pure sport initially and we were in like the london bubble um and we actually met in person at a pure sport run club because henry invited me and bronte my best friend to yeah lead this run club for international women's day and then that's when we originally met didn't do anything from that maybe like four or five months after that Henry then reached out to me and was like I've got an idea have you got me free for a quick phone call and I was just out on a dog walk and I was like never spoke to this guy before my life really I actually don't know what he's like what he's up to um and then we had a phone call and then you were kind of just like floating the idea around of did you even mention electrolytes then I don't think you did I think loosely yeah loosely um and i and at that point i was very very lost in my social media world i i felt like i was quite bored with the content i was making i didn't really know where else to go or take it and i just felt like a little bit lost and i know i knew i wanted to have some sort of business but i didn't know what and i didn't know how and it was kind of a weird timing when henry rang me because I was like this is exactly it like I was finding myself um and it just felt really right and then we met for a coffee and then Henry floated the idea of index and then we bounced ideas off and we were like really on the same page of what we wanted and what we could see it being and how we both obviously agreed that we were people who love fitness we also love to have some fun and socialize we really found like a gap in the market for that and we just yeah I went from that and what made you pick up the phone to millie of all people it's what you've been talking about storytelling yeah like i i'm so aware of content yeah yeah and it's um like we're living in this storytelling era right like people are so bored of just seeing product photography on a like whatever brands do these days yeah yeah we've ever done that but like storytelling is is the key thing and we wanted to build it in public from day one and how you do that is bringing people on a journey yeah yeah yeah and immediately contact was fucking unbelievable so i was like let's just like the complementary skill set if that makes sense yes yeah yeah yeah yeah and then in terms good at anything analytical but you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah yeah and then in terms of first to meet have this coffee at this point in time do you know it's going to be an electrolyte brand like did you know what the product was or did you just think let's create a brand what was the brand was always going to be some form of hydration brand purely because it was something that we both take on the regular like every day yeah yeah why is why is hydration having this big moment i think it's because it's just such for example when you then try and educate anybody on let's say like creating you talk about the atp systems all this type of really quite complex scientific biology that's going on yeah with hydration we all understand that simply if you want to feel dehydrated or hydrated you both know what that feels like like you do feel shit when dehydrated a bit foggy a bit like do you know when you wake up are you dehydrated it completely depends on who you are a lot of time what you've done like before like if you but if you bang that first thing in the morning you're like i generally feel like significant this is not even selling my product significantly better having this first thing before a coffee or anything yeah because the coffee like disrupts your circadian rhythm which is basically your body's clock yeah and that's why you feel shit at like midday because you're um i can't remember what the word it's like uh Hedicine levels, whatever it's called, which is your...

1:41:56Quartosol. Yeah, also just what you call it. So basically coffee, you'll fill that slump at like 12 because the natural wear off of that hormone wears off. So then you get it again later. So you should always wait about 90 minutes or so. And two minutes are brilliant on this. Yeah, I'm bad at that. I like to have a coffee, it's 5am. No, no, no. Wait, wait, as long as you can. God, how many coffees do you have a day? Bare. Like, that's like... We've had three. You've already had, yeah. So when you say I'm not listening to you. Yeah, no, no, I do have a lot of coffee. But I think you build up a bit of a tolerance.

1:42:25You do, yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, I was sort of trying to like white knuckle like energy into me. Yeah. Maybe I might have to switch stuff up. Try holding off just for like 90 minutes or like an hour. I'm tired in the morning though. Also, I like the buzz of it. Do you know what I mean? You're probably tired because it's like you're coming off that coffee leg. Yeah, you're literally, so it's like you're addicted basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got a very addictive personality. We don't go into that. and then okay so yes we both take we at that time and sorry yes so this goes back to like almost the the nike color trotters you're doing scratching your own itch creating the thing you want to create yeah so you're both into hydration we both yeah like i at that stage was very much a fitness influencer so i was taking electrolytes at that point hated all the electrolytes i was taking not only because of like the flavor but also just the look and feel of electric they're all just very boring gym bro sporty there wasn't a cool fun like i said sexy electrolyte brand that is like what you could you want it to be an accessory it wasn't there was nothing like like that um so we wanted to create something that ticked all the boxes basically yeah and also it's like i it's not like you know like the gateway drug but like electrolytes are such an easy gateway it's very easy for you to never have ever supplemented supplemented anything in your life to try electrolyte and be like oh okay i understand this now do you know what i mean yeah so like if you have to have like you know magnesium at night you're probably gonna sleep a little bit better but like again going from dehydrated to hydrated you you can feel that feeling quite yeah that's what that's what um andy was saying at the talk because i put your hand up who knows what function like mushrooms are and everyone was like that's so that's the thing it's quite as soon as you try and educate someone on anything you've kind of lost them in the marketing space you know what i mean you have three seconds ish from marketing yeah yeah yeah yeah that's also people who are not open or willing to understand something which a lot of people don't in the same age because we've got attention spans of fucking they just want a quick fix and they want the answers yeah they'll just be like right whatever and that's something that we try and say is like we're not we don't you know everyone needs electrolytes by any means if you're sitting at home not doing anything eating processed foods a lot like don't don't take electrolytes you don't need it like you don't need that extra sodium you don't need that in your lifestyle yeah yeah but it's like you know billy and i running around all day going to the gym skipping meals yeah so what does your like weekly like fitness routine look like for both of you guys now four year mice bar for a marathon god no um i like to run a lot right um that's it pretty much it and then i actually pilates i like to do some spinning i kind of just fit it whenever i can like today i can't exercise i'm not deeping it it's fine i did plan to this morning but i did wake up in time tomorrow i'm gonna see if i can i just really go day by day what and then do you like um do it in the morning i'm more of an evening interesting i hate mornings really i'm it takes me so long to wake up and i get my body like moving and like yeah i feel like my bones crack a bit and i'm just like getting old i need to just give my body a bit of time to wake up first what what about um what about you i'm very similar apart from the pilates part um we will get you into to Blartie's glass though.

1:45:35I'm not sure. But yeah, just try and What do you do? Like weights and shit? Yeah, like three or four times a week. You like to do some calisthenics, don't you? Like do like pill-ups, that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's why I'm crazy. Yeah, like outdoor gym. I just love going outside, especially when it's summer, you know, like going to like Clapham South. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just want to move any way you want though. Any movement is great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if not like, for example, tonight, like I'll just go for a nice walk around the block.

1:46:04Al Barrett from Grenade, because obviously he's well into it. We actually recorded it in his gym in Cornwall. It was sick. He's minted. Wow. Mate, he had, like, Rich was there. His gaff was ridiculous. I love Grenade bars. I think he had, like, five G-wagons all black outside. Fucking hell. Anyway, it's Jim, he's got a chopper in the gym. I was like, don't touch the chopper or anything like that. Wait, where's the phone? It's German suddenly, he's English. No, no, is it like, is it Arnold Schwarzenegger? Let's get to the chopper. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what it's in, but anyway. one of the questions I asked him is like compound movements like the big fuckers and then you've got all the airy fairy stuff which is kind of like you know what I mean like side raise I was asking him what would you say the compound movement bang for your buck for exercises are right I'm not sure why you're asking me this but of Marx and then what's bullshit basically okay what's like the fluff and what storytelling is number one yeah can i say like authenticity it's quite waffly i know that is a bit waffly isn't it is that loud you're allowing that yeah i mean it's your answer yeah but yeah i'm just interested just you like you like your pov yes yeah yeah that is main um i feel like disregarding like as a title like disregarding That's a bit fluff.

1:47:29That's a bit fluff. No, no, but as in like, all of the traditional sense of marketing, just don't look at, just do, it's like, it's kind of going back to do you, isn't it? It's so difficult to say that as a whole. But I guess it's like, ignore the noise. Like, ignore what's, like I said earlier, like some brands are really good at something. Some brands are really shit at something. Don't just try and do something because that's what you, they are good at doing it. You know what I mean? Yes. I don't know how to summarize that. The thing about marketing is it's so difficult because marketing isn't a objective thing.

1:48:05It's subjective. And what marketing means to you is different to what it means to Millie and to me. Hopefully Millie and I have a relatively similar view. But like the whole issue of marketing is it's sort of put under this blanket statement of this is marketing. The fact that like I try and write four posts on LinkedIn every week, that is a form of marketing. But also some people say that's not marketing. It's just personal brand. What about consistency? You see what I mean? Compound. Right, so we've got... That's a really hard question. Yeah, no, no, yeah, but you're giving a delicious answer.

1:48:36Storytelling, authenticity. Consistency. Consistency. Oh, oh. What's the other? I would say unpredictability. Unpredictability. That is a compound. Yes. You don't know your next move for sure. It's like John Cena. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then what is just the... The fluff. I mean, yeah, you know sometimes you see people on those boosu balls. Yeah. and they're like I saw someone doing that at the gym today like fucking they're like pulling the thing like this with their like leg out and I was like I mean she was in great she was in great nick I mean fuck me like yeah Jack Joseph or Italian Batch you know those creators yeah yeah yeah where it's like POV like a full child doing anything by going into the gym but actual yeah and then like doing like sword fighting and it's like yeah yeah yeah fucking jokes I guess the fluff is like I don't know I've got a slight allergy of like of like strict meta at the moment ad spend like people really really focus on the numbers and i think um the party and fig dudes are really good at is like they're talking about out of home stuff and the halo effect and how you know they might do something for a million quid now you know the out of home campaign i think they said the return on investment will be nine months later because yeah because the consumer might not be in the right buying mood at this time whereas for us with salt hopefully when people sort of let's say mature through their sort of let's say wellness phases of life they might think i might buy electrolytes now who's shit who's that brand who i kept seeing on social media salt nice because you're not going to see fucking brocker on social media are you see what i mean because people think brockers are electrolytes probably i want salt to become the first name that people think of when in this category does that make sense yeah yeah and i guess it's understanding that people's buying habits and levels of commitment to their wellness journey will change and dip and flow over time in the year or whatever.

1:50:23I think another bit of fluff could be trends, following trends. I don't know if that kind of counts as an answer. But like, when you're following a trend, yeah, it's topical in the moment, but it's not long lasting. And it's also not going against the grain. You're following everyone else. So people actually think doing a trend or whatever is actually a really good idea. But you're just getting lost in everyone else who is also doing their trend. Like it's a trend for a reason, because it's like oversaturated. It's a wave. Good service to make it waves. So like I'm actually always thinking what's not a trend?

1:50:55Like how can we go the opposite? So how would you, and like this, but I would say that this is on trend, electrolytes, not this brand, but electrolytes are on trend. What if electrolytes become passe and pallid? And like, how do you, how do you think about that? I always think like, how can we make a trend? How can we be the trend setter? So I kind of think that because we're so like, Like I guess with like building in public is now a trend. Yeah. That's why we changed the scaling in public to purposely remove ourselves from the other people. And always try and get away from that. Yeah. You know, like, this sort of stuck with me, the guy in Devonshire, the Guinness.

1:51:29That's what I was going to bring up. So he actively hates the Guinness, speaking the G. Yeah. And for a pub that's famous for Guinness, saying, I hate that, is completely counterintuitive, right? Like, you would almost champion that if you were him. Yeah, yeah. Or you'd think so in marketing terms. For him being like, I fucking hate that trend, don't do that. It's in my mind. And the fact it's stuck in here means something, right? Yeah. Well, I'll see, because he's Irish. Obviously, Osher's Irish. I was like, the quote was, everything popular is wrong by Oscar Wilde. I was like, what is everything popular?

1:51:58What's wrong that everyone fucking does? And he was like, trends. And he goes, if you're trying to build a trend, you're fucked. And like, if you think about what they've done of their pub, they haven't changed the menu. Every single pub or restaurant in London right now to survive, seasonal menu, weekly changing menu. They haven't changed their fucking menu. They haven't changed anything. think they've really they have reinvented like the um like the green room out the back and like that's constantly evolving but like i i agree and it's so it's the yeah trends are going to come and go and pass but i think brand stay relevant and i think it's just past like i feel like there's always gonna be one brand that will win just for example like cbd years ago say trip trip i remember walking around nope which was like a dope fest essentially it was like all this like um it was the thing they did the excel would oh boy shitless i would not recommend going but it was it's you know they have all the brands coming in from europe it was all looking like um stuff you'd get from doctors or like proper puff the magic dragon you know photos of weed and shit and and i was walking around going this is weird like this is new thing cbd trip come in fucking out nowhere and go bang it looks like something like a homeware brand yeah and suddenly it's like and they go so would you say that that's literally my case i always say they've made a gloopy green unsexy thing that's associated to dope heads yes sexy trendy part of people's lifestyles yeah and that's what we're talking about i love the loo roll who gives a crap those guys yeah who gives a crap so good yeah but also like with with salt for example like you know if that were to happen let's say electrolytes were to have a massive dip in like trend or let's say as part of people's sort of wellness stack we will have to revolt from being innovative by creating different SKUs different benefit led products stuff like that um and that may come it may not depending on whatever comes our way yes so you have to be you have to be at the forefront the few more things and we'll wrap this up but just quickly on the gumphy stuff like the superfluous bollocks um so trends is one any any others on that oh numbers you said numbers oh so like ads oh meta yeah so I think they're like numbers I think people like over analyze on specific things and don't look at the whole business as a whole so like people focus on like meta like don't focus on one channel focus on all channels like constantly drilling everyone to post on linkedin youtube shorts youtube long tiktok instagram instagram trial reels like it's the i guess the probability isn't it so like focus on everything all at once all of the time yeah yeah that's my view i could be completely wrong one thing i want to ask you again in which against the grain of some people i've sat in front of of like they have this blueprint and the best thing a piece of advice is what will chase from tyrell said because there's no rules in brand building it's like you make you can make make it up um but one of the common things is like don't go into retail too early go on d2c you guys have bought that trend with going so can we talk this will go live after boots by the way so yeah oh yeah yeah yeah i suppose yeah um but like what was the decision how did that deal come about like we're on the we're on the like ignite program right basically is tailored towards startups so people who should not be in the position but they are due to like the social variety of the brand long story short we're going to be used as their marketing tool to get more of our generation and like let's say community followers into store it's a footfall marketing sort of channel for them and then so you know it's like okay we'll focus on d2c okay sweet so you've got to spend x on every customer who comes in through meta for all the other marketing so how many stores are you in with boots launching in 48 and then hopefully going been 150 by end of march and then what's the game what's the game plan with the storytelling and again that's a bit far off now but like as that begins to gestate in your brain of like how you're gonna from because i love i always get one thing from everyone i speak to and i think with you guys it's this 360 storytelling based off these really like core principles on one side of the barbell then the other side has just been loosey-goosey and having fucking fun and just like let's go yeah that's a beautiful marriage um but yeah like how would you because i feel like getting product off shelf is always the hardest thing it's what everyone's always said to me and it's like you can do sampling that cost though you can get people out in the field to check availability that cost though like there's how are you going to approach that in a completely new way yeah we are quite i don't know we're i think the good thing is like the social media so like again going up to traditional ways like yes you can do like sampling sweet you're probably reaching 100 people max a day let's be honest we can storytell and reach hundreds of thousands if not millions a week yeah so we can show that we're in boots we can show where we are in boots to hundreds of thousands of people through videos then we can do what we can physically but that will have to be like ad hoc and stuff like that yeah so i guess it's a case of like understanding what is needed from us in terms of like a rate of sale perspective and then working backwards to get there whether that's through online channels physically handling our salt it's also even like working out because we're going to be positioned in like the beauty aisles as well as the wellness aisles so we might see like a huge progression in the beauty aisles that we probably weren't anticipating and then you know we'll focus on that and be like okay so clearly a lot of our audiences into beauty or a lot of it is like female or whatever i don't know we'll be really surprised probably by the results we get and also that's what that's the grenade thing he did as well which he was they put him in the like wellness category to begin with yeah and he was like the game plan is i need to be against cabris yeah i need to be against like he looked at the best bars yeah he goes i need to be in the i need to be in confectionery i was gonna say confect but that's like when people say that but you know there's like acronyms yeah you don't need to shorten that i went to like a networking event i was like so what do you do she's like i work in confect and And I was like, there's no need for that for sure.

1:57:59That's a fucking confect, Jesus Christ. Sorry, I'm getting too, yeah. What's it like, those things anyway. And he moved it and immediately it stands out against, and the product is so good. Vogue, we asked to not be in the wellness section. We said, can we move out into, we did it into the drinks category last month because it was December. So people by nature are more looking at gifts for like wine, spirits. So I said, can we be in the drinks category rather than the wellness section? then this month we're in beauty section so never wellness because you're then competing against wellness brands so yeah yeah yeah yeah so it's like if you just go against the grain every opportunity you're gonna hopefully stand out and and then and then sorry samilia you're just saying about the beauty if the beauty stuff does bubble up how are you in then i guess we'll see that as a real strong pillar and we'll we'll focus a lot of content or even ads or whatever we'll think okay how people obviously wanting to drink their skincare that's what we said in one of our drink their skincare that's such a good way of putting it that's like a poster drink your skincare yeah it's like fuck that's it it's this huge thing it's gonna be in bath seat though you know the beauty boots that in boots oh yeah yeah the power station big one saying drink your skincare yeah that's a sick poster do you wanna see it yeah yeah yeah but also it's just being completely transparent like this may completely fucking flop yeah that's the thing and like we've always said again this is what keeps people on the edge of their seat like we've always said this could kill us like we actually don't know yes but also so it means it almost gives you permission to not fail as well.

1:59:27Exactly. Because if it does fail, you're like, I told you. Yeah. Oh, wow. Fucking sick, isn't it? Yeah, that is sick. That is so sick. Why, your guys are so open with sharing like the financial numbers. Like, why is that? Like, we're not as open as, I don't know, like. We could be more open, to be fair. But it's again, it's like people aren't showing that. And we want to show what people aren't showing. So numbers is one thing. Like, and also when people are starting a brand, like you have no idea where to begin with numbers. Like, we don't even know what the benchmark is. it actually really isn't a benchmark of like a certain number that you should reach within the first year of launching whatever so that's why i kind of just like look we'll we'll share the numbers that we've got and we're happy with that and that's great like we don't really care about that so i don't think there's much to hide it's quite difficult it's always one sort of not sure about how much to share like we share as much as we can but numbers is always something that because also on like from first stance seeing like these numbers you must be like these guys I'm making fucking bank.

2:00:28But what we don't realise is, is that like, yeah, you then have product costs,

2:00:32SULT founders:COGS, every outgoing, marketing costs. Like, there's a lot of money that goes out the company. And what looks like a nice glossy figure is actually, you know, once you get everything out, it's like, shit, you're not really making anything. So do you have like a board meeting or like... We are the board. You know, but as you know, so you just buy this, this does it. That's basically how I run this. Yeah. Is it like, there's no... There's no advisors. There's no system. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We have zero investors. We're our investors. We have zero advisors. Would you take on external money if needs be?

2:01:01Definitely, sure. Like, it's something we're thinking about this year, maybe. So tax man comes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We need some extra money, no. I think, yeah. Yeah, cut that off. But no, like, investment is something that I think would be really something cool to talk about as well. Yeah. Like, how to build, like, again, we would never build a pitch deck because our pitch deck is our social media. Like, if you want to know how we're building this company, fucking look at social media. that's the best the best thing is not using a pitch deck such bullshit yeah such bullshit like the amount of times I've been asked for a deck I'm like yeah sweet go look at social media yeah yeah yeah there it is yeah so it's like if we do raise money I think it'd be really cool to storytell would you say we raise money before we take a wage out or we take a wage out and then raise money we need to take it's better to take wages out for tax reasons dividends yeah we haven't taken a wage out yet no guys let's wrap that up that's been fucking sick I've absolutely loved it and it was just yeah you guys are amazing I think you're so good without even realising it.

2:01:57All the storytelling and brand building and just the way you view the landscape is like nothing I've ever heard. I can see why you're building such a unique brand. And yeah, loved it. We'll have to get around too. Thank you. We're literally around the fucking corner once you guys, next year, once you're... There's hope, of course. We'll touch base. Thanks, guys. Thank you.

2:02:24thank you so so much for listening to the podcast i really really do appreciate it if you liked that episode only if you liked it please do give it five stars subscribe tell all your friends families foes next door but one cat dog whatever please tell everyone about this podcast it means the world to me and i really want to understand what your pain points are as the new wave of challenger food and drink brands please do hit me up on linkedin search Dan Pope and hopefully we can together create a more meaningful and powerful podcast for the next wave of challenger food and drink brands thank you so much