7 Brilliant Basics of Onboarding to Make New Employees SMASH IT OUT THE PARK

0:00One of the reasons we all love this industry so much is that everyone genuinely does try and help each other that's why I love it it's awesome so just trying to utilize the network and then try and encourage your new hire to utilize their network to just be a sponge and just learn from lots of different types of people and meet lots of different types of people especially this industry more than any others is that everyone will and will want to help I could speak to him and get really excited about a an opportunity or something we were doing or programmer work but he would you know he would never sound excited on the phone but he'd come back the next day and he would yeah I think that's a good idea let's let's do it understanding now having done this exercise a blue will never make an on-the-spot call they need to step back and reflect so if you're sort of thinking that with a if you even know that's someone you're joining the business that's their style of communication or thought process i think that's got to be helpful for onboarding and development

0:58today i am absolutely bart zing um to welcome my good friends and partners of the podcast um Paul Jones and Billy Maddock who are part of Mackenzie Jones who are our first original OG sponsor and now uh Billy who's heading up Ignite who's their challenger arm um of the business so lads thanks for having me uh in Richmond in your humble abode it does look a bit like a fucking I've got you hostage with the background but not selling our office yeah yeah yeah yeah thanks for yeah great to be here Dan well look and I think I think the first pod we did I think must be about a year ago now well it would have been a year ago because Subclubs was made so it's a year ago it feels like yesterday but last time we talked a lot about how kind of the mistakes brands make when hiring um kind of the job description how to kind of what to look for in the CVs um all that was really really really interesting but and when we were kind of gestating the kind of the idea for the second part the um we are thinking of how what what are people not thinking about or challenge your brands don't necessarily think about when it comes to hiring so they think about you know the getting the finding the great person you know spotting the gap in in the team blah blah blah blah blah and what we've we've struck upon which i think is genuine gold is kind of the journey from how do you get someone to hit hit the ground running how do you get someone to when they join the team or the band they are absolutely smashing it and i think with you know in football like you know if you think of manchester united or chelsea they've spent billions on players and they haven't hit the ground running in the first you know week six weeks and as soon as that happens it can start bad behaviors coming into play uh morale drops down so i think this is really really important and i can't wait to explore it with you guys but i think what i think the best place to start with is what are some of the mistakes you know what and they are quite basic but they are mistakes what are some of the mistakes from Say I give Dan's Donuts.

3:17Yeah? Dan's Donuts offers you, Billy, a job, right? Fucking excited. You're an A-team player. You're a Harry Kane. Yeah. Ready to have you on board. From that offer, what are the biggest, to the three weeks of you starting, what are some of the biggest mistakes brands make? Maybe you want to take two and then you can take one. Yeah. Yeah, I think the thing before we get started on answering that question, I think it probably worth just providing a bit of context as to what we aim to cover. So I think what we're talking about today is the whole journey from someone being offered a job through to them becoming hitting the ground running or becoming a high-performing employee.

3:57And that journey, we've broken down into three different parts. So it's that first part from when someone accepts a job through to them starting in the business. That's part one. Second part is from the first two weeks in the business. that immersion into the business. And then the third part is that continuous support and development. So from that two-week period through to them becoming high-performing. So three different parts, and hopefully we'll cover some different topics throughout all three sections. In answer to your question, what mistakes do people make? I think there's plenty doing what we do.

4:31We see quite a lot of good and bad. And I think for me, it's that initial period that when they get an offer through to them starting, a lot of it is about getting the basics right, firstly. So if you've made an offer to someone, don't hang around for a week or two or three weeks to getting a contract down to someone. Something really basic like that. But if you're taking ages to get a contract written up, which it can for some businesses because you've got a business to run, it may give someone an impression of organisation skills or where you are as a priority. So get the basics right. It's making sure that the rest of the business know that this hire has been made.

5:21A lot of the time that doesn't happen. So what Mark Palmer talks about is the brilliant basics. so he was at Preck Green and Blacks did LA Brewery and I think the fact they're basic is the fact they're so basic is people actually neglect it and the reason they're brilliant is because they are so simple, sometimes the best most simple things are the most important and I think in terms of your piece about setting the tone, I really believe in challenge brands, how you do one thing is how you do everything, as like a leader it's like, well if you miss the if you call the person to send the contract out two weeks late that sets the tone but like fact these guys are a bit disorganized or un-disorganized but um i think that's a really interesting one and i think sorry this thing for me is this is something that our friend owen at good rate has mentioned um he said a really interesting point resonated with me it was like it's the responsibility of the whole business to make sure that someone is onboarded or inducted correctly it's not just on the founder it's not just on the hiring manager it's the responsibility of everyone in that company um to make sure that you know everyone is aware everyone's making someone feel welcome everyone clears their diaries or make sure that you go for lunch with someone on the first day or whatever it might be or if there's a social it's it's not just on that line manager it's on everyone to make someone feel welcome because if something the sooner someone's feel feels at home or feels welcome the sooner they're going to start performing and i think for you pj yeah Yeah, for sure.

6:55Look, to me, communication is the key thing here. It needs to be personal, personalised. Billy's mentioned, you know, welcome. Sometimes workouts can be up to three months. Ouch. You know, so keeping a notice period for a candidate before they start from an offer to the notice period. They have to serve where they are. So getting them out to trade shows, getting to know the business. And when someone's working a notice period, they can feel like they're floating through that a bit. They know they're leaving where they are, but they're not where they're going. And there's that sort of weird hiatus in the middle.

7:30So giving them a sense of purpose and belonging through that period, I think, is really important. How do you think they do that without playing devil's advocate? Because there's the whole thing of like, yeah, I think floating is a delicious word. Because it is that kind of you're in between two, you're floating. But it's like you don't want to, you want to keep them in the loop, in the mixer. and you want them to kind of feel like, get them pumped. It's almost like, yeah, not Christmas Day because it's work. Maybe that's a bit too... But you want them to get gassed about coming to work for this place.

8:02But on that side, but on the other side, you don't want them to feel like, fuck me, I haven't even started. I'm not being paid. Just getting the balance right. Like, you already give me work? Like, is there any darling examples of, like, how to juggle that so people getting excited, they're not feeling cumbersome with work? Well, I can give you two examples. I think to me it's all case-by-case. And it also depends on the functional hire that you're making and the level of hire, depending on what that engagement looks like. So when you say functional, like... Whether it's sales or whether it's marketing or finance, you know.

8:32But look, Twining Tea, for example, when people are offered a role on their board, they're then fed bits of market data and insights during that period, any new business wins that they've had, any new launches that are going out. So they're feeling part of the business. They get a sense of belonging. They know the direction of travel and they feel that they're being included in the comms, which is neat and nice. I like that. On the other side, you know, Ian Wilkerson from Hunter and Gather, who's the most recent sort of commercial director there and doing great things as are Hunter and Gather.

9:08He was asked to be involved in preparing some of their or looking at some of their pitch documents for Tesco before he joined the business. So he felt truly part of the business and immersed in the business and felt he was adding value. So it gave him a sort of, this is where I'm going and this is why I'm going there, rather than waiting for day one when you first join a business. In my experience, most people prefer too much contact rather than too little. That's what I felt. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you'd prefer to be kept up to speed, even if you're being worked quite hard during your notice period.

9:42but you want to be kept up to speed with your new business, how the new business is doing, as opposed to not hearing anything at all throughout your notice period. So that like, it is about, it is about balance, but it's from, from what I, from what I understand is that you'd almost prefer to be like doing a little bit too much, but they're not an employee yet rather than too little. The, yeah. Cause I think I don't, I, it's interesting from, for me personally I wouldn't want to be pulled into what is Tesco's pitch deck from the off but I think but I think you're right I think there's other ways in terms of like in terms in terms of like no but it's like there's it's also all of this is you're dealing with dealing with human beings it's also case by case case by case exactly was to launch into grocery exactly yeah exactly it's all case by case and I think I'm just trying to think what would work for me if I was an employee going to switching jobs.

10:38I would be like, for me, touch points, but like maybe a couple of drinks. Yeah. Socials, trade shows. Socials, trade shows. As I'm on, I suppose what I'm trying to pull out here is that it's all case by case. The Tesco example is a darling example for someone who's coming in grocery. They are high performance. I mean, everyone's high performance brand, but like Hunter and Gather are. Gather are. You got that correctly. But I think with all of this, it's like take take information then and then it's all it's all centered around communication fundamentally and what and what you've just meant what you've just mentioned there the question you've just asked what would work for me yeah me like that's that that's the whole point it's got to be personal yeah so ask the person you hired like what how much contact you want like how involved you want to be kept because they may turn around be like look i'm gonna i'm gonna be absolutely i'm gonna be working really quite hard throughout my notice period so you know probably best not to bombard them a load of stuff or they'd be like actually i'm probably going to finish a bit early i really want to hit the ground running yeah so therefore you'd probably give that person more information than the person that's so asks ask have a conversation open honest conversation how involved how up to the speed how in the loop do you want to be kept during yeah again it's brilliant brilliant basics but sometimes it is going back to the brilliant basics in terms of the i mean william kendall who sold green and blacks we were talking about the brilliant basics with just getting meetings right, getting board meetings right.

12:06So it's like, you know, you send actions after the meeting. Someone writes it, you have X person does this, Naomi does Y, Gareth, let's put your names up my ass here, does Z. It's really basic things. I think it's definitely applicable here. I think you're so right. It's like, what do you want? It's like, get to know, personalize it to them. What are some of the other brilliant basics that people fuck up on that first bit? I know we talked about the MD or sorry, say sales director hires or ops director hires, actually having that touch point with the founder is really crucial because the founder is basically the nucleus and the nectar of the fucking brand.

12:42Yeah, I think it's like, look, speak to the hiring manager, but actually I think feeling that the business is connected to you, is looking forward to you joining, wants to have a relationship with you, is there to answer questions, is there to help, and actually is people, as Billy said earlier, it's responsible for the whole business to make somebody feel welcome and onboarded. So, you know, multiple contacts and certainly rather than just the hire manager, the MDs or the founders should be in contact with that individual to be, you know, welcoming them to the business and explain how much they're looking forward to working together on the journey that they're on and sharing a bit of their direction of travel and ambition and reaffirming it.

13:15So it is a bit case by case, but contact, insight, knowledge, connectivity, they're all the key pieces. things like as well mate it's like you know something really simple is by giving announcing a new hire on linkedin you know that makes someone feel really welcome like that wow the business is excited me and energized by the fact i've joined because they've announced it on socials it's things like that can make a huge difference and also but also the other side of that is it's like uh it's almost like from the employee's perspective it's like fuck me like i've got big boots to fill here so it works like it's depends what they say in the announcement post yeah yeah yeah no but as no but as in like as in to say like i think it adds you want people who are hungry so there's two sides to this it's like making the person feel really warm and yeah and connected but i also think there's another side to this which again i've recently been podcasts is things come up that you're not yeah it's almost like yeah you want someone to come in and feel like they're really stepping up to your brand and you're going to feel that they're valued and adding value yeah yeah yeah but also it's like it's like yeah like we're we're excited to have you and then like it's going to enforce them and that's how that would make me feel to be fair i think this is quite a nice segue into the second section because the second section of that like when someone starts that first two weeks it's being really clear and i guess it depends on the business and things like that but it's been really clear that first two weeks just like i I think it was, again, it was Owen from Goodraiser.

14:46That first two weeks, there's no expectation on them at all. Absolutely no expectation. So you're in the first two weeks. It really should just be around like full learning and immersing yourself in that business without any expectation to deliver. Because it can be very difficult to deliver in that first two weeks. So even if they did put a post out announcing your, I guess, employment on LinkedIn, if the expectation has been made that look you don't need to deliver anything in the first two weeks that should hopefully help that mindset so Phil and Phil and Tom from Honest Burger they were talking about this they were actually saying they had one of their guys go to Pizza Pilgrims and they talked about the hype the executive like the senior executive fallacy whereby right, you have a senior executive person going into a brand potentially.

15:42So let's say they've worked for, not always, but let's go, they say think, right, well, I need to like not change things, but like, well, I need to really stamp my mark down. And this is how we're going to run the meetings from now. This is how we're going to run the sales meetings, for example. This is how we're going to run the marketing meeting. And it's from the first week people are coming in like, and then that's how these cultures can change. So I think what Ian's saying of like, give two weeks, And this works for both the person coming on to feel warm to the team to get kind of, sorry, for the person to come acclimatise the culture and the temperature of the brand, but also for the team to kind of absorb.

16:22For sure, yeah, absolutely. I think what Ian said is two weeks is great, but what the honest guys were saying is they're one of their guys going to Pizza Pilgrim's senior position. And he just said for the first six months, obviously it's just just literally soak it in go and speak to every like the person in every single department sit with them get to like literally soak it in um and almost create like kind of um uh roots into every kind of and then because again this is there's two sides to this it's a symbiotic relationship you need the person coming on board to feel yeah calm collected safe ready to excel but also that there's a new person joining the tribe yeah the team need to feel you know that there's a culture that's been bubbling and brewing and building for four five six seven years you can't just have someone come in and throw a fucking wrecking ball around i think there's two really interesting add-ons to that dan and that's a great shout out when you're meeting the internal sort of team whether whichever the finance or the strategy team or the brand team or the logistics team that when you know i'm logistics i'm meeting dan who's just joined dan's dan's donuts or whatever and um i'm saying like this is this is who i am this is what i do and this is how i think we might be able to work together so you're already opening the dialogue around collaboration it can be very dry some of these meetings but let's get into it how are we going to work together how are we going to build a really powerful partnership are going to work in collaboration and this is what we've done before but there might be some ideas you have and let's get into that that rhythm um straight away and i think the other bit is don't just make it internal but go and meet some of the customers go and look at understand how the brand of the product the router market get into the the heartbeat of what makes the organization tick and the sooner you can get your head around that and get that immersion that billy was talking about you feel part of the team and you understand how levers you can drive to add value to the team and to the business i love the six months though i think that's i mean if you if you're in a position as a business to give someone that much time that's that's amazing because that that shows a real i can show a real sense of trust and i think that's where you'll get the best out of someone is if you give them that time and then they'll want to repay that trust i really love that but no yeah i mean not i don't have that's very generous many very generous yeah um i'm 19 sure it was I'm pretty sure it was six months to be fair we work on three months the point is is that if you give someone time to say look this hire we've hired you to deliver obviously in the short term medium term but long term this is a long term appointment take your time learn the business network learn the industry learn the market total immersion we use that word a lot that I truly believe will give that will stand someone in the best stead.

19:20And that's the self-guiding space with Asana is quite interesting as well. Billy, you know, from what we've heard in the marketplace as well. Yeah. Go on. So there's, we speak at Hunter and Gather again, and this name seems coming up a lot today. They do a lot of self-guiding around the immersion. You say self-guiding. Well, they use Asana as a platform. So for example, you know, find out how to get the expenses policy so you know what to do. So rather than someone showing and telling you you're guiding yourself a little bit through that that emerge that immersion and that onboarding piece which i thought was quite a neat a neat idea uh from actually you know a self-managing perspective particularly in a in smaller businesses you can then sort of catch up at the you know at the end of a sort of process and see who are take feedback continually learn but as a platform i think it's quite an interesting an interesting angle that's like all the stuff like all the sort of housekeeping bits yeah housekeeping hygiene admin yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's clever i also i think a big part as well is is understanding the the human like the person as well yeah you know i think this is not necessarily even throughout the interview process if you can is understanding where what that person's ambitions are you know how how they like to be managed how they like to be coached you know what gets the best out of them because if you understand that understand what's going on in their personal lives understand all of this stuff you can then put some processes in place to get the best out of them once they're in the role i think that's a big part as well the i think i like what you said there mate about the and i'll put my hands up like when we had new people join you know previously is that i think you can think oh god they're in they're in ops it's not my problem not that it's not my problem but like i'll do the intro chat and that's kind of yeah i've ticked my box i've ticked my box i think i think it's a really what ian said about like everyone in this team is responsible for this person come x person y person z person coming on board um is a really interesting framing of of of this and also i think i know we're talking about the individual person as in the new the new employee coming on board but they need to understand how um the other human works so so for example the way how can we best work together so it's almost like the uh the uh what's it called the ops person says right my best way of working is give me a write me an email with five bullet points and that's my way of working salesperson give me a bell marketing person voice note me Perry from there's a guy who Ray Dalio who's this absolutely minted geezer billionaire wrote a book called Principles and in his and this is kind of way too extreme but hear me out and he he basically says he has these cards with a bit it's a bit like his own version of the Myers-Briggs test you know like the difference I was going to talk about that because I've got an interesting yeah but let me finish first so yeah this is really interesting and he basically says he has these scorecards which I think this is a bit too extreme but good good ideas start at the edges and the extremes right so it would say right hi i'm billy i'm you know yeah i don't know the yellow you know the fucking yeah yeah color color i think that's what we're going to come the disc pro the young and the youngest so what perry does at big fish yeah is he kind of as a different example of this but he wants people but when he's doing one of his workshops he sets down what and says this is what how this person works best yeah and i don't think um i think for brands this is this there could be a way to make that kind of quite extreme process kind of more challenge or even so it's almost like say this is the way i work or to say like these are even if it's as simple as saying yeah i i work in terms of give me a bell yeah or you can make what you mean there's a what's yes or what are you going to say about what you'll say shs drinks which is a big business one of the mds SHS, what do they do?

23:29Schlur would be one of their brands. Schlur as in, you know, the advert is just like two. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a joke. But they've got a whole bunch. They've got peanut butter for a while, so they've got a whole bunch of different businesses. But one of the MDs there, he... You've come a bit closer to me. One of the MDs there actually used the colours profile when he brought people in, and we'd do it here as well. We'd get everyone to do a test, and it shows... It's a test, it just shows their preferences for communication style. What are the... Go to the colours? Well, yes, red, which simply is like action bias.

24:01Yellow is, you know, you get your energy from other people. We both do red and yellow, but yellow is much more, you share information, you need to connect. Red is a need for action. Green is a caring, sharing individual. Blue is a devil for detail. They'll have to make a whole new colour for you, Popeye. And everyone tends to be a different blend of these things. So you can imagine an analyst might be more blue. You can imagine a salesperson might be more red, yellow. But as well as doing these tests for the new people that were coming in, he would also then share all the stakeholders in the business, what their profiles were.

24:34So you start figuring out how I communicate with the blue is very different to how I communicate with a red-yellow. I'm just trying to think how you make it so it's not like, hello, I'm a blue. It's like I have a fucking eight-leaf just brought down to an alien ship like, hi, I'm yellow. Do you know what I mean? It's like a fucking Simpson or something. we've got a mega blue in our business and i call them mega blue only internally they're fucking smurf but i i'm i'm quite i'm very yellow red and i you know till we did these i i sometimes couldn't i could speak to him and get really excited about a an opportunity or something we were doing or programmer work but he would you know he would never sound excited on the phone but he'd come back the next day and he would yeah i think that's a good idea let's let's do it understanding now having done this exercise a blue will never make an on-the-spot call they need to step back and reflect so if you're sort of thinking that with a if you even know that's someone you're joining the business that's their style of communication or thought process i think that's got to be helpful for onboarding and development also i think the um the it can be quite daunting drawing a new business especially a challenge a brand well i'm trying to think is Is there a way to do it without going, you know, hey, I'm blue.

25:50But I think you could literally just have a sheet. I think it's just part. It doesn't need to be on. It's just part of it. You could have a sheet, which you could put it on the Asana thing. Or saying, like, this is kind of the way. So when in that first three weeks, we've just hired some people at Islands across different skill sets completely. Like, the marketing guy's super chill. They're just completely different skill sets. but I think even with what we've done there what Will's done there I should say is is almost just having the different this is the way this person you don't have to you don't have to make a big song and dance about what colour you are like it's a you know swimming badge or something but a mega blue yeah yeah but I think it's so true because you just you know you know which which how to how to do the dance yeah you know and it's and you also learn out how not to communicate with them yes as well that's even more important More and more important, yeah.

26:44Particularly in your early days, you know, to feel the past. I mean, that's a really good point. Is there a way to make it a little bit, like, not, like a little bit less serious, as it were, a little bit? Like, more or more challenger, as you said. I don't know, but that's a really good point. Yeah. But I think the point which we're all trying to make is, what you need to do is understand the people, the business needs to understand how you like to work and how you like to be managed, but also you can understand a bit more about them and how they operate as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It needs to link in.

27:20What other things can brands do in that kind of second period of getting people primed and ready to go? We've talked about the colours, which I think is really interesting. I think shadowing high performers in the business is a good one, you know, for them to understand what good looks like within that organisation? Because that's something you need to figure out along the way as well. Yeah, so I think it's spending time with key internal and external stakeholders. So it's spending time with, as Paul said, high performance. So people who are up to speed and who are performing well, spending time with them to know what good looks like.

28:02But also anyone external, if you're working with a marketing agency or if you're outsourcing your Amazon, for example, spending time with that agency to learn as much as possible about how they work. So it's any external contacts as well to be just, I guess it's that whole learning and immersion piece still. And then this could either sit in one of two camps. I think it's probably a continuous thing. But one thing that I've noticed a couple of brands do, so the guys at Real Superfoods and Hunter and Gather, they do get on quite well. and I know that they do introduce um like functional leads so the head of growths for example will have been introduced to each other know each other so they can share ideas share ways of working so um you can you know what's working for real may also work for hunter and gather or vice versa what hasn't been working they can share so it's sharing best practice or yeah I think that could be really powerful as well I think that's a really good idea for brands were slightly smaller so say say you're say you're a brand of three people yeah and your fourth you're you are the first sales director you are the first marketing director so you say you're like a bit like a fatso the chocolate brand i'm speaking to tomorrow say you're the first sales director there i think and you're like oh how do we how do we get them to shadow high performers no fucking high performers here you can reach out to a brand like moju and i think what i love about half is i'm obsessed with this industry is how collect collaborative and supportive of everyone else and say look can i yeah can i we'll send you a shitload of chocolate yeah can we can we sit with your sales director for 20 minutes just understand the journey you've been on yeah exactly yeah no i think that's a really nuanced interesting point because um using your network using your network and also being like we don't have to have i think people can think we need a massive hr person to do this and actually if you're boiling it down it's just if we're trying to boil down the principles it's like okay one just be punctual how you do one thing is how you do everything the brilliant basics to like find out how they want to work yeah how you want to work um three kind of colors how the team communicate yeah for like the shadowing of um shadowing of high-performing people in the team and if you haven't got a massive team that's no problem even if you have that external community is really powerful right to to connect i think I don't know who did drinks.

30:27I know who did drinks a lot. So I know when I was at Manny, so Ollie from Manny, Jess, who was at Camden Town, no, Lucky Saint, Camden Town. They had the bloody drinks guys. They did like this thing every Thursday where they'd all meet up for, like just very informal. But there's other brands meeting other brands. say you're not in a co-working space yeah like you can you can almost create like a whatsapp group with two other three other founders you know and almost create this kind of little community little community yeah but like yeah not but like a really um kind of but like back to covid times like your bubble your bubble yeah okay don't worry about that i think i think that's an interesting way of doing it because it's like you can you can access other people so i think this is what i was to say is like well i think one of the reasons we all love this industry so much is like everyone genuinely does try and help each other that's why i love it it's it's awesome so if you've got a new starter starting and why not utilize your network if there's anyone that you know that's work he's got experience or works in another brand or has been doing this job for another brand see it i'm almost certain they'd be willing to help you know so i think it's just trying to utilize the network and then try and encourage your new hire to utilize their network to just be a sponge and just learn from lots of different types of people and meet lots of different types of people um especially this industry more than any others is that everyone will and will want to help um i think the other thing is about like again this is all case by case but having a what what are some of the and you you you're way more privy to brands than me but like what are some of the perks that do really well so i know i've got a mate who works for a company called work week in new york i mean nothing just food and drinks and i'm talking about it but anyway but he one of their perks which i think is really good is like they're allowed to buy four one of their values the business's values is curiosity every employee is about allowed to order like four books yeah a month on amazon i think that's fucking six it's like if you go imagine if you've got a team of 10 that's suddenly 40 books a month yeah whatever that is a year like your curiosity is going to yeah any are there any like really like um nifty uh things people can do in that kind of period so that when people come they're like right i can order this or i can uh go to that gym class i don't know you guys know more about it than me i'm just asking yeah look there's this is also the the whole learning and development piece and onboarding and training is a big part of it.

33:11You know, people want to join to learn and to grow and people want, you know, people want people with curious minds. So they need to support that curiosity. So I've heard the book piece. I think that's a great initiative. But there are other platforms out there as well when you, you know, you get a certain amount of credits every month to download, you know, some seminar notes or learning on something, but then you feed back to the business what you've learned during your first six months so they kind of set out you know where are the areas we need to support you in your growth in your development in your learning to be you know to be a better version of yourself if you like so here's some tools we can offer you internally here's some tools you can offer you externally and then let's sort of catch up at the end of that period and let's sort of feedback what you've learned and you know maybe we can take some of that on board in the business as well there's there's one example that um the guys at something and nothing do um and i think this was born out of a new hire so what they what they have in there nothing for listeners is that's the uh like soda soda and spritz yeah yeah yeah um and that what they've all employees have what they call a redo one rejuvenation day per quarter so basically what that means is that in addition to your holiday so in addition to holiday you can go and spend a day at a spa day or getting a massage or going for a hike that is basically you just switching off for a day so that when you come back in you can you they're all around encouraging creative thinking there so you can come back in with a view that you'll be thinking more creatively you'll be fresher unless you've gone to the pub

34:48but you know what I mean so I think that's quite that's quite cool and I think if especially if this could be related to new hires. Starting a new job is tough. It's draining. You absolutely feel knackered. So that kind of thing could be quite nice as well. I think working back, so obviously this morning you interviewed Adam, co-founder of Innocent. One of the things he was saying is, and it is kind of, people talk about it now, is codifying your values as a brand. And this is the way we want things to work around here at Innocent. This is the way we do things around here at Innocent. and what he was saying to me is it's so easy for people just to stick the values on the bog above the fridge but actually is there ways in that period to really like entrench the values in the new employees kind of mind but then getting other members of the team to show the behaviors because the whole reason you have values is because you want to inflict behaviors so it's like so it's like I'm trying to think of a value that's good what's Lucky Saints Devil in the Detail I think is one of Lucky Saints yeah Devil in the Detail Get Lucky I think Get Lucky is one of Lucky Saints and Curiosity is a great one yeah so Get Lucky is one of Lucky Saints so it's like you can have that value and obviously embers are innocent but the in that first period of weeks you can you're trying to get the other team members to show the behaviour So that could be a field sales girl or guy going out on the road and really kind of taking that person on the road with them.

36:28Because, you know, high performance isn't just going upwards. It's downwards as well. You can have an absolutely banging field sales rep and get the new sales reps to go out with a field sales rep, show them how to get lucky. So that's going to pitch to 15 indies in, you know what I mean? I think the common theme is, oh, high performance are always up. It's not. There's down as well. I think that seems to rather just say in the induction, these are our values, actually go and live the values, demonstrate the values, and we'll show you how we live and breed those values. Values are ultimately guardrails to the behaviours.

37:00Yeah, they're behaviours and attitudes, absolutely. Just one thing I think we just need to make sure we definitely cover before is, I think we're speaking a lot about benefits for the employee and, you know, rejuvenation days and giving them six months to get up to speed and all that. Like there's amazing, great stuff and there's context behind it. But ultimately, you know, these new hires do need to come in and deliver. So I think it's really important that once they, you know, at some point in that first, after that first couple of weeks, that clear expectations are, or milestones are set going forwards.

37:34So someone knows what they need to do to get to pass probation, for example. They know what they need to get to pass. Does that not happen? No, we'll review it after three months or six months. And, you know, not every business sets our clear expectations and, you know, around that and giving clarity. And then post probation, what do the next three, six, 12 look like? And I think the better the communication and simplicity and clarity of expectations, the better performance that will drive. 100%. Because if you think about it, if you're a founder and you're running a business, you've hired someone, great.

38:07And then your mind is probably like, right, we've got to secure this listing. We've got to launch this new product. Actually, we need to hire even more people. So like mine's going loads of different directions and it's quite easy to, I guess, still remember that the existing team still needs to be looked after. And unless people have expectations or know what their progression is, they could lose motivation. So I think it's really, it's so hard to manage all this stuff, but it needs to be, this stuff is seriously important that someone knows where they're going in their career and what exactly, as I said, what they need to do.

38:40And how they're going to be supported to get there. Yeah, totally. and what are some of the best practices in i'm kind of the worst person to ask this why it's gonna come out um nice sound yeah yeah yeah um what are some of the best uh sort of practices and setting goals because again like in this in this period you don't want to set so many that the person's like fucking hell but you know what how does again you've worked with more brands than i have so what do you think is kind of some of the best practices in terms of this is how we're going to get you through the probation period this is you know what I mean look I think the the probation period is depending again on the function of the role it'll have different objectives and I think part of it is about gaining some sort of mastery and understanding of the role uh that you're in and how you should be delivering in that role and also building those internal relationships and understanding how the the business works because a lot of the some of it is based on output and performance when you review at a probation period some of it is a lot of these on internal feedback also external feedback from customers so there's no one size fits all here but it's just having clarity of understanding what the dimensions of the role and what what what what's realistic to you know in the first six months to to indicate you know we're performing at a level which which which which supports the you know what's required in the role and supports that that that you know the the sort of future trajectory of that of that candidate and the investment in that candidate and I think beyond that then it's it's it's two ways understanding where a candidate wants to take their career understanding that you know where clear where the business is going that you know what's the what's the trajectory what does what opportunities may or may not you know become available and how do you support that learning and development together so I don't think I've answered i want to quite theoretically but again it's about what why where is the business where is it's going what role can that individual play in the person ultimately yeah but yeah but a brand is and i think we start it's kind of the perfect place to begin to wrap this up because it's like at the beginning we started about the human and the don't forget it's a human being i think it's something we said pj but like ultimately don't actually that human being needs all the kind of the love and the kind of cuddling, whatever, to really soak in and absorb the brand.

41:00But then they also need some hard metrics and data to be like, this is where, this is, this is the compass, how we get to here. High performers, high potential people love a challenge. Yeah. So let them have a challenge. Well, not for, not for. What's your definition of high performers? Yeah. What is it, Paul? It's that podcast now. Yeah, What's your definition of hungry, mate? well the point I was going to make I personally this is my opinion yeah I personally think it it needs to be situational it depends on the person Paul's absolutely right some high potential people do love a challenge so the goals that you might want to set them might be pretty ambitious whereas there'll be other people who may not respond as well to quite ambitious goals and they may need to you know may need to like slightly alter alter the approach but also So again, slightly nuanced on this is you need to speak to the team function it's going into, right?

41:57Because you may have, and I've seen this happen, where the team are like busting their balls off trying to get to goal X, say here. New person comes in trying to throw their weight about, like obviously wanting to impress, impress the board, impress, you know. So they're like, right, we're going to go up to here. and then suddenly the sales team and the marketing team well hang on mate we've just been grafting and we don't see that so I think there's actually when you're setting the goals for the new person coming in it's actually speaking about the team they're going into so say it's the ops team it's like well do you really think you know we can cut costs to 40 % by 10 % for example new guy or girl comes in and is like right we're going to wants to put their mark down, let's cut it by 30%.

42:48Well, then the actual team that you've got in place is going to be completely demotivated. So I think there's a dance between those two as well there. We get to see that all the time where, for example, a business has set targets for the D2C team, but then they've also reduced the marketing budget. So it's a bit like, if our ad spend's been reduced, how can we expect us to increase our numbers? So you're right, that's the man. It's like trying to get a sprinter to run 100 metres faster, but then someone just putting a 2kg, well, not 2kg, maybe 20kg backpack on it. Do you know what I mean? It's like, I think that's a really interesting point.

43:25It could also be self-development. If you're uncomfortable sort of presenting, you know, building someone to present or lead a programme of work within the business, you know, that to me is, that's a good investment and building a candidate personally and professionally. And so I think that's also part of if they want to move into wider function areas or bigger leadership roles, whatever the journey they want to, you're giving them the tools and investing in them to get there. And that's, to me, the symbiotic relationship. That's why a person stays and is motivated and goes the extra mile and does the high performance piece that we're talking about, because it's a two way thing.

44:03And also, one of the final things is I think, actually, this is why I said, let's just roll with this. William Kendall said the most important employee in your business is the newest employee and why he says this is because the team are so used to their ways of working that they can't see their blind spots whereas a new employee, they're fresh as a daisy, can see where there could be blind spots so one thing you could do is be like right what do you think and give them the passport and the license and then they present it to the team that this is three things this brand X does really well. This is three things brand X could potentially do better.