Espresso - Fallow Founders - The Genius of Pierre Koffman

0:02Let's talk about Pierre Coffman and that kind of heroic kind of dish you created which went completely nuts. like tell me tell me about what that was like working with him what did you learn well pierre has been one of our biggest supporters from from when we started um he was like yeah it was a crazy moment when i saw him and richard vines um uh come in to heading street and it was obviously like a you know cooking for pierre kaufman it was like as to this was before i think even before the yeah it was a second lockdown um yeah i mean and then he has come back every like for me it's one of the biggest point points of pride that he comes to eat in the restaurant because he always says the season is on point um so other people are saying yeah chips are too salty but piel loves that yeah but he's um he's that three way like machine yeah he likes chef he likes chef seasoning um so yeah i think he likes the you know bowl flavors and um He's also like, he's just a fantastic, anyone who's met Pierre knows he's like, he's very passionate about the next generation coming through, which is just an amazing thing to see.

1:12Like he's still obviously really switched on active and he always leaves like, he'll always give you one little pointer after his meal. What are some of those? Like the suet pastry that we made on one of our original desserts was too coarse and it was too overworked. the cheese board on the last time was cold so there's always like a little thing that he'll give us a pointer to work on and with the chicken head pie it was exactly the same we went through like a development process with him but what was so like in Gascony where Pierre comes from like the idea of doing the stuff chicken head or duck's neck or something like that is just not foreign at all it's like Pierre ate the chicken head and then like took apart the beak and there's just like a neat little pile of bones left So he does live and breathe that.

1:57The trotter is that dish because he is that chef. He does relish in using the whole animal in different ways. So to be honest, it's one of the biggest points of pride in my career is collaborating with him, to be quite honest. Really? He's just a legend. He's just such a good guy. And who are some others who have, like obviously you work with Ash, who are some other people that have, because what I'm trying to understand is you've got this, you're trying to bring people through, but who sort of helps you and have you taken those little nuggets of and then you can sort of, you know, be the conduit to pass it on to the next wave of restaurateurs?

2:34Your dad. Slim pickings, is it? Right, for me, I only worked at dinner. So, full transparency, like I've had one, you know, four and a half years at dinner, which was Ashley. What was that like though? What did you learn from Ashley? systems when we were there this was like it was so it was so set up it was so well set up at dinner that you're learning the system and i think that probably is likely it's formulaic in its in its approach and what i appreciated was it was the consistency and the attention to detail but what are some of those systems for us unbelievable just like the checking process the signing thinking recipes off you know I'd never seen that before you know you make something you take it you take it to your senior chef on duty to get it checked you know sign off the quality effectively but I'd never seen that before probably pretty standard around most high end restaurants but hadn't worked in a restaurant of that caliber before and it's about understanding why they're going through the process and actually I think somewhere like that you have to work there for a good amount of time to fully understand why they're doing things rather than just be oh that's shit why have I got to do this and just trying to get around it.

3:50You've got to fully embrace it. Make a cheese sauce. You have to get the roux checked. So you have to get the pre-coloured stage of the roux and make sure there's the right consistency. You'd be running around a cup with a cup with a little plastic spoon to try and find a sous chef. And it's a big old hotel. And then you'll get the cheese, you'll get it checked again when you've added the cheese and the ultra-tax and then you'll get the finishing checked at the end. And then it gets tasted again before service and then it gets tasted again before it goes out to the customer. So you're talking like five levels of checks.

4:20And I did - And what would you guys do now? Well, we do a check every day religiously of everything that's on the last. So that's five before it's even got - But with dinner, it was so vigorous and so - The thing is, it's like you're taking what you're learning, you're applying it to your own style. Like for us, like now it's like, now we're like, obviously, we're a bit more mature and we look, we've got different time restraints and whatever. But now it's very much like, someone brings something to me. I'm like, what do you think, chef? you know because like how are you what do you think I'm trying to get into it you're bringing me this little cup and it's got I don't know let's just say I've got my gravy for Sunday in here and it's got little whatever and they're like chef can you taste this and I take it I can guarantee nine times out of ten they haven't tried it themselves so it's about being like what do you think what do you think it needs and they trace it and they go oh I think it needs some salt and you go there you go you've already answered your own question before coming to me so it's about empowering them to develop their own skill set.

5:17And I'm merely, we, I, the other sous chefs, the other head chefs, whoever it may be, we're merely there to guide them and make them better and mentor them. But it's taking that and learning it and then you get inspired by them. Opening that window for creativity that if those are the guys, I'm not the one doing all the prep anymore. You know, we have too many chefs. Like, I can't control every single thing. So you rely on their knowledge and their skill set and their passion to ask the question sometimes. And sometimes by, someone with no experience or limited experience, asking a question that might seem so basic about a preparation, you can sometimes develop that.

5:52Yeah, I believe the smart answer lies in the dumb question. It's just so many people are scared to ask dumb questions. What are some questions that you like other than how are you? but one that blew my mind recently is this might be normal to other people that I'd never seen before. Yeah. We've always made, we make mushy parfait, you know, one of the most popular dishes in the restaurant. Make a fucking numeric shit ton of it. We've always done it in a bog standard classic parfait way, which is into a terrine mold, into a bain-marie in the oven with foil over the top, cook it to whatever temperature it needs to go to, and then take it out.

6:26And then we had one of the junior sushi chefs working with us recently. And he was like, why are you doing it like that? I've always done it like this. Can we try that? And I was like, all you do is you basically pour it into a tray and steam it. And I was like, we were like, yeah, try it. And it was like absolutely perfect. I was like, why the fuck has no one else ever thought of that? Yes. So you can get inspiration, you can learn, you can develop. Yeah, and typically when... It's like bottom-up leadership. I think that the other one which the Devon Church did is like, they were doing shots.

6:56They don't serve shots at the Devon Church. And he was like, Osh was like, I think someone was like, why the fuck? Every time we do a shot, everyone's absolutely off their nut. And it's just, it kind of ruins the sort of slow, getting pissed up sort of vibe. So they just don't do it. But that's a bottom-up thing. and I think it's like as you say it's like with a mushroom parfait it's like well let's just steam it any other of those little nuggets quite often you get things done by people doing something wrong and you might be like what the fuck have you done to that it's quite nice though I try to think of what I've done it does happen regularly like you might mix two sauces together by accident you'd be like what have you done it's really delicious but what the fuck is it yeah that's not on the menu quite an old thing lads thank you so so much for listening it honestly means the world to me i hope you enjoyed your morning coffee and go and have an amazing day let's be having ya if you want the full episode it will be in the show notes and it will be in the show notes the full episode thank you so much please leave friends as well means the world to me

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