Espresso - Michel Roux Jr. - How to Manage Big Egos in the Kitchen (& the Office too)

0:05I think in my kitchens over the years I've always had the extremely talented chefs there but also the less talented and you need everything you need I think you need a bit of everything because the ones that are hyper-talented and are really, really at the top of their game, you will keep them in control and nurture them. Well, not nurture them, but keep them in control. And you don't really have to work too hard to get the best out of them, but you have to work very hard to manage their egos very often. How do you manage your egos? Gosh. again it's down to individuality it some of them will need constant attention constant praise constant affection and record constant recognition um and it and others less so you know others will will just need you know a pat on the back on the way out and say, you know, well done.

1:14It's, again, it's understanding each individual person. And that is key. And then you've got, you do need the ones that are just what we would call workhorses. That you give them a task and they will do it. Yeah. And they will repeat it and they will repeat it and they will get on with it and it will be done to perfection. Could you use the big ego chefs or the naturally gifted to bring up the, how would you use or utilize, I should say, the big naturally gifted megalomaniacs, if you could call them, with the workhorses? Yeah. Could you get them to help each other? Yeah, absolutely. How would you sort of galvanize the ego to get them to bring up the workhorses?

2:01Yeah, absolutely. Because you need that balance. Yeah. And I suppose it's the true, you know, in most businesses, you need a balance. So out of a team of 15 or so chefs that we had at Le Gavroche, then you would split it up. You would make sure that the egos and maybe not working together, they are split up and they would be in charge of their little section with hardworking soldiers, as it were, the infantrymen. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fascinating. But it's understanding Each person's character and that takes time You know 15 16 in the kitchen sometime pre-covid it was even more And then the front of house as well because let's not forget front of house and getting to know them getting to know them Getting to know their skills getting to understand their limitations What make and then understanding them as a person.

3:08So where they're from, their family, what they do, their hobbies, et cetera. Just little conversations, little snippets, so I can get inside of their head. And then use that as a tool is the wrong word, but as a way to connect and a way to make moves, me or to to bring me down not down that's wrong again to bring me to their level or to their to their so that they see me as an equal yeah yeah well connect i think it is connection it's like but on a humanistic a human level not like a ruin not as a boss yes ultimately yes i was the boss and and you know and and dad was the same you know ultimately yes he's the boss yeah but he had he had a way of bringing himself down to everybody's level so that everybody would would feel that they could go and talk to him as a person and hopefully that's that's the way my team at cap rochefelt well i'm pretty sure they did because they used to bend my ear all the time oh my boyfriend has left me or my girlfriend is oh this or my oh by the way chef um you know my Mum's coming over.

4:25Can I have a day off? So, you know, they would talk to me. And people would talk to Dad and Uncle all the time. And I think that's really, really important. It's key, I think. And it's key, I think, to running a good business. But it's also key to creating a great atmosphere that the guests then will feel. I I personally think No That when I go into a restaurant I can tell within minutes if it's a place that is happy Whether it's a you know a good working environment You can it's it's it's like an aura. It's it's something in there You walk into the place and within minutes, you know if this place is shouty if the managers are bastard if the you know if the staff are working under pressure that they're not happy, you can tell.

5:23You really, really can tell. But if it's a joyous place, if the staff are happy, if the management team are really getting the best out of everybody and treating everybody well, you can feel it as a guest. It's intangible, but you know it's there. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. As I say, one of my favourite restaurants at the minute is Fallow. Like, I've been there quite a few times. And I went with my mum, and she was absolutely, like, in seventh heaven. and they're bringing out the sort of espresso martinis and they've got a guy there and he's a genius. So he's a guy called Lockie, who's this Australian guy who's, he was actually in a band called The Overtones, like this Aussie, I think it's like Aussie Westlife is what I've seen.

6:00He's this beautifully sort of, you know, camp elaborate kind of storyteller and he walks around with a headband. And I was speaking to Will and he was like, the guy doesn't even need a job. Like I think he's done really well out of The Overtones or undertones whatever it is but he just loves hospitality and he's you know he'd come in and he'd sit down so your eye level when you're with someone like my mom as the as the food was coming was like what's that he's like he's australian he's like don't you don't even dare say that i'm gonna tell you what it is but he's like he had this sort of sass about him i was like this is genius but so i had that experience and then i spoke to will and jack i was like how do you create that well it's like look we create you know whether it's a small thing like buying the team a load of the the energy's low so let's put up the house music let's give out some tequila shots let's like not to the team but to the staff but as you say it is that symbiotic relationship between the what's going on you know sort of backstage versus front stage which is which is the restaurant i think it's it's endlessly fascinating i mean it it is it is teamwork and you know you've got to get that message across that we are working all together as a team it's not start a section, garnish section, fish, basically.

7:12No, you work as a team. So we used to try and rotate everybody. So, you know, you would work maybe only four months on one section, then rotate and move to another section, move to another section. And I think that's really important too. And it was the same in the front of house, you would rotate so that everybody would have a go at maybe doing the menial task, running and polishing, and everybody would have a go, have a shift at opening, so the opening shift or the late shift. So it was constantly, so you would appreciate then the good bits and the bad bits of, say, finishing off doing the late shift, and you would appreciate then the glory bits of maybe being, working behind the bar.

8:01so all of that I think is really key and so in the kitchen for example yes you may not like working on garnish section because a lot of it is pretty menial and it might be peeling spuds of this that and the other but it's got to be done and it's got to be done in the right way and you can't slack and then if the kitchen porter doesn't turn up which could happen I would be the first one to jump in and do my 10 minutes, 20 minutes of pot washing. And so, you know, you lead by example. So they see that, the team sees that, well, the boss is actually rolling his sleeves up and doing some pot washing.

8:44You know, we're not going to complain, we're going to bloody do it too. Yeah, it's, you know, I'm a great believer of leading by example. Thank you so much for listening to that. espresso i hope you enjoyed your morning coffee and are ready for the day let's be having you boy and please do subscribe follow the podcast share this espresso on whatsapp if you liked it and also there's a link to our newsletter in the show description i spend 15 hours toiling and writing this bad boy it's full of wonderful wisdom from the biggest names in food and drink you're not going to get these in a business book so please subscribe and thank me later two months free yeah that's what espresso sponsors unleashed are offering they are supply chain gurus and offer inventory management that talks to your econ and accounting software it's helped islands cut admin time in half get granular clarity on your margins know where your stock is don't miss availability brands like candy kittens tarquin's gin minor figures and trip all use unleashed and i reckon you should too as i said two months free in the show notes click there and you're gonna get two months for free