Espresso: Michel Roux Jr. - What Was it REALLY Like Working With Marco Pierre White?

0:02Yes, so when Marco was in the kitchen, I was just filling in as a pastry chef. I say when he was at Le Gavroche, because before that Marco was working at Gavours. So Gavours was the original Gavroche in Lower Sloan Street. Yeah. And then when Gavroche moved to Upper Brook Street in 1981, my father and uncle kept the premises in Lower Sloan Street and named it Gavours. So Marco was there, working there. It was a classic kind of French brasserie. There was bouillabaisse on the menu and things like that.

0:36Michel Roux Jr.:It was just a beautiful, good, hearty French brasserie, for want of another word. And then he got transferred to Le Gavroche. And as I said, I was then filling in for the pastry chef. and Marco was, was Marco, 100 % full on. And the only person that could really keep him in control was dad. How would your dad keep him in control? He would have to sit him down before service and after service. But swim into that a little bit more because I think that's really interesting in terms of like a managerial leadership thing. Yeah. Because almost like you sometimes need these players who are kind of a bit, as I say, a bit off the wall or hard to tame, but there's a certain genius in them, so you need to learn how to manage that.

1:28And there'll be a lot of people listening to this who have that person in their team. So before service, what would he say to them? Is there an example where he was, like, where it got a bit, you know, combative or whatever? Oh, God, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was very, very fiery. I mean, Marco was a very fiery character, as was Gordon. and but The old man would was on the pass in those days. So that would have been in the early 80s And he he would literally grab Marco by the scruff of the neck if he was being too much of a Cantankerous I think is a good word character, but slamming the fridge doors and throwing pans on them and just getting really really Psyched up for for service.

2:10He would sit down and just say Marco just calm down for fuck's sake there's no need for this. There's no need. Where was, why was that? You've got the talent. You've got that. Why was that aggression important though, do you think? Why do you think aggression was so important in kitchens back then? Well, Mark, I'm not saying that Marco was aggressive and I'm not saying that there was aggression in the kitchen, but he was just a fiery character. Right. With you. In general, just in general. And, and it just wasn't conducive and trying, wasn't conducive to achieve greatness. And shouty kitchens, and we've moved on, thankfully, a lot from that in hospitality.

2:52There's still some work to be done, and don't get me wrong. And there are still some dinosaurs out there that run their kitchens like that. But shouty, aggressive kitchens are not conducive to the best food. I don't think so. But then he would sit him down after service as well, and he would go around. Actually, Dad was like that with all the stuff. You'd go around and hug everybody at the end of service. One minute, the old man would be shouting at you saying, get that fucking thing on the pass, or why the hell have you done this, and get your finger out, and this and that. And really, really put the pressure on.

3:30At the end of service, he'd come around and give you a hug and a kiss. Yeah, that's a subtle art of, because I think there's a line in the book where it says Albert was a glutton for punishment. But what they say in the book is how he would always, no matter how big the rollicking there'll be a hug as was it silvano yeah we'll talk about like the front of house they'd basically be at each other the whole time and then just at the end have lots of champagne that's the other thing in the book is what again i didn't realize is before le gavroche and everything you did there was a massive kind of um discrepancy between the kitchen and the front of house oh god yeah and i think your the way your father describes it is almost it needs to be an orchestra it needs to be a symphony it needs to kind of be this one kind of organism like how does he get that to work and like what is the art of getting those two things to work so i think it is you can feel it when you go into a great restaurant the dance of it just happening but also it's more stark um and sort of rifling when you're when you're in a restaurant where it's not working, you know?

4:35100%. There has to be total trust between the front of house and the kitchen team. And they have to work as one in unison. And those years, I mean, yeah, you know, back in the dark ages, as it were, it was us and them. And it really was a fight. who could screw one over the other. Wow. And, you know, it would be front of house and back of house. We don't mix. They didn't even used to go out together at the end of the night. It was, no, no, you're front of house. We don't go out with you lot. You know, we only go out with the chefs and vice versa. And it's, I don't know when and how it changed, but it certainly changed for the better.

5:28that now a well-run restaurant will be just one team. Yes. And I distinctly remember my dad instilled when we had apprentices working at Le Gavroche, kitchen apprentices, they would have to do a certain amount of time in front of house. So they would work in the room to understand How their food is served? What the front of house their responsibilities are and how they can make our lives as chefs easier better? And then we would also have Occasionally some of the front of house team work in the kitchen for a few hours So I mean that was very very forward thinking. Yeah. Yeah, that was back in the back in the late 70s and early 80s already he realized that this has got to stop we can't be fighting each other what would group in terms of the customer how that would impact the customer experience um again it was like it's i'm trying to almost like imagine we're doing this conversation in in 1969 1969 yeah or 1967 like how would that impact the experience for the customer because you know i'm trying to say like Well, first off, knowledge.

6:49So understanding what goes into a dish. And then secondly, a chef working in the dining room will soon understand that it's not just about bringing a plate and putting it in front of the guest. It's also about timing, getting everything ready. You don't clear until everybody's finished. And just little things like that. There's loads more. And vice versa. So when the waiter comes in and works in the kitchen, it's not just slap a steak on a pan and put it on a plate. You know, there's a lot more that goes into it. All the preparation, making sure the plates are nice and clean and hot and so on and so forth.

7:29So it's all of that. I'll tell you just a tiny little anecdote, actually, of the dark ages. We had a Metre D assistant. Might be a little bit closer to that. Sorry, yeah, I'm leaning back. That's all good. It's my back. I've got a bad back. I'm going to keep it moving. Yeah, just a little anecdote. We had a metredee, bless him, was a lovely, lovely man, Tony Battistella. And he was actually, he wasn't an employee. He was more part of the family. Right. He started work actually in 1967. So he was with us on day one. Wow. And followed us through and was metredee, as I said, or assistant manager at Gavroche for many years.

8:14and I remember he was old school very very old school and when Gordon was working uh at Le Gavroche so this would have been in the mid to late 80s late 80s um he uh he was on the fish section and uh he I don't know what how it flared up or what happened but he had a go at Tony and and he and there were a few words said at the beginning at the beginning of service you effing this that and the other and Tony just looked at him from the other side of the pass and says I'm gonna get you son I'm gonna get you and he had a table of eight we had a table of eight uh booked that night all a la carte so they could choose whatever they wanted every single starter was fish section and every single main course was fishing Tony came back with this check and it was all written by hand in those days plonked it on the pass and I called it out and he looked at Gordon as if to say fuck you sunshine that is so good and Gordon was fuming he's basically gone over and he's sort of hand up the yeah absolutely you've got to get fish yeah you've got oh that's brilliant absolutely Absolutely.

9:37Absolutely. So I think Gordon learned his lesson there. But yeah, those moments you realize that actually, you know what, we shouldn't be fighting each other. We should be working together. Yes. And, you know, it's not a question of us and them, front of house, kitchen. For the good of the guests, we should be working together. Yeah. And the good of the whole team as well. You know, it's teamwork. It's not about individuals, which I think comes back to that original question as well.

10:14Michel Roux Jr.:Thank you so much for listening to That Espresso. I hope you enjoyed your morning coffee and are ready for the day. Let's be having you, boy. And please do subscribe, follow the podcast, share this espresso on WhatsApp if you liked it. And also there's a link to our newsletter in the show description. I spend 15 hours toiling and writing this bad boy. It's full of wonderful wisdom from the biggest names in food and drink. You're not going to get these in a business book. So please subscribe and thank me later.