Espresso - One Piece of INSANE Wisdom to Never Burnout - All Wins Feel The Same - James Smith - HUNGRY.: Summary & Transcript

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Podcast Episode Notes: HUNGRY - Espresso: One Piece of INSANE Wisdom to Never Burnout - James Smith

Episode Overview

Podcast Title: HUNGRY
Episode Title: Espresso - One Piece of INSANE Wisdom to Never Burnout - All Wins Feel The Same
Guest: James Smith
Sponsor: Unleashed (inventory management software)

Key Themes

Authenticity and Self-Expression:
James shares his journey from the corporate world to personal training, emphasizing the importance of being authentic to attract the right audience.
He notes that shedding professional facades made interactions less exhausting and more genuine.

Ego and Success:
Discussion around ego as an enemy, particularly after achieving success.
James reflects on how success can distort personal narratives, leading individuals to forget the hard work that got them there.
He highlights the importance of staying connected to one’s roots to avoid complacency.

Hedonic Treadmill:
James discusses the concept of the hedonic treadmill, where achieving successes often feels less rewarding over time.
He notes that while one may celebrate milestones (like followers or financial gains), the joy from such achievements tends to diminish.
The importance of recognizing that all wins feel the same, regardless of their size.

Coping Mechanisms:
James shares his productivity strategies, which include creating a catastrophic vision of the future to motivate himself.
He reflects on how parental responsibilities have shifted his outlook on productivity and daily achievements.

The Role of Negativity:
He discusses harnessing negativity as a catalyst for motivation and creativity.
James shares anecdotes of polarizing content that led to growth in followers, indicating a willingness to embrace vulnerability and risk.

Cultural Differences:
A comparison between British and American attitudes toward success and entrepreneurship.
James suggests that cultural norms in the UK may lead to a more cynical view of others’ success compared to the US.

Key Takeaways

Being Authentic: Authentic self-presentation can lead to more meaningful connections and opportunities.
Managing Ego: Awareness of one’s ego helps maintain humility and focus on consistent effort.
Reality of Success: Recognizing that successes, while initially thrilling, often lead to a cycle of diminishing returns.
Negative Outlook as Motivation: Channeling anxiety into productivity can drive success, but balance is essential.
Impact of Culture: Cultural perceptions influence how success is viewed and celebrated.

Notable Quotes

“When you start doing well you start telling yourself a story about why things have gone well… if you believe your story you stop doing the things that made you successful.”
“All wins feel the same… the joy from achievement tends to diminish over time.”
“If you’re not getting sued, you’re not moving fast enough.”

Conclusion James Smith's insights provide a refreshing take on success, authenticity, and the importance of staying grounded while navigating the tumultuous waters of entrepreneurship. He encourages listeners to embrace their true selves, manage their ego, and understand the fleeting nature of success to maintain motivation and fulfillment in their ventures.

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Transcript

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0:10What is it your enemy's alien? foot beyond the sea. So everywhere we go through life, we're putting these facades on. And it's just quite, I think, for most people exhausting. I think it's more about energy preservation than anything else. And I remember going from the corporate world into personal training. I'd wear a polo shirt, I would have an iPad, I would try and be professional. And I attracted the wrong people. And it was exhausting. It was only when I started swearing, put a black t shirt on, didn't wear my uniform, would sit eating out my Tupperware at the side. So I'd be like, oh, two more reps, you know, like eating my lunch.

1:03When I started being myself, I started attracting people just like, but just like myself. And to me, that's just a much less exhausting way of doing things. And on social media, even if there were, you know, there are potential, let's say there are buyers, supermarkets, whatever, potentially listening, and they're trying to gauge whether or not this founder is going to be right, blah, blah, blah. It would be so inappropriate for me to talk about snorting cocaine doing mdma you know having unprotected sex with strangers or whatever but i know out there somewhere someone could potentially listen to that and go fuck me that's refreshing he's gonna get a meet in sainsbury's you know yeah and not all of them would these bars are sniffed yeah yeah yeah no no come to the christmas party and while everyone's trying to go one way of being super professional you know oh yes you know our brand is the best oh you should see our return i'd spend just coming out and just saying look anyway you send me in the uk i'll give out cans for free don't give a shit how many millions of followers i've got send me to fucking sunderland take me to newcastle put me outside of greg's with a backpack i'll do it because that honesty people aren't really real with some people and founders of drinks because you have to get to almost a certain amount of clout to be in a position to create your own brand a lot of the time especially in the creator market whatever it just so happens to be at the point that people's ego takes over and i just i think that's such a shame for so many people but when you say ego takes over so have you read ego is the enemy by ryan holliday yeah yeah that's i've actually got a question about that yeah yeah so exactly the point that when you start doing well you start telling yourself a story about why things have gone well and you can tell yourself a story it's because of you know your demeanor your charisma your ethos your work ethic but really it was the fact that you're a fucking psychopath three years and got up at 4.30 and drank 15 cups of coffee a day and you neglected most of the girls you dated and that you barely saw your parents trying to build your business off the ground if you believe your story you stop doing the things that made you successful but if you don't believe your story you can keep doing the things that make you successful and so many people that experience success and get to a certain point can sometimes lose connection of the person that got them there how is your ego your enemy um it's interesting my friends say to me that i'm the same person but with just more money and not a huge amount of money by the way a good amount enough that i can bully my friends uh i joke and if my friend hasn't responded for a while i'll like send them 200 pounds on monzo but then i'll often get it sent back but it's the fact i'm i'm doing it or you know i'll just i'll just uh i love doing a thing where say i'm with friends I haven't seen for a while, I pretend that I've lost a touch of reality.

3:41I'd be like, oh, dinner was only 300 pounds. I can't believe how cheap that was. And they're like, are you fucking kidding me? I would honestly say I'm still the same person, but I quite like the fact that earning better has changed me because it's not in a bad way. It is in the sense I'm more playful, I'm more fun. I like getting dinners. But as far as ego, I would say it's probably the only bad thing that I get really annoyed that the things that used to be big to me aren't anymore. I flew business class somewhere not too long ago and I got off the plane and I was like you fucking prick you were nearly crying the first time you flew business because it was it was such a big feat to you I'd like six glasses of red wine and I had a moment where I was like this is amazing you should be proud of yourself I was like tearing up on a plane I flew first class didn't even have a glass of champagne I was like you're a prick that would say my ego has become an issue only where I lose gratuity of the things that used to be massive to me first time I wasn't in overdraft was amazing but then you take a dividend and you won't feel anything so for me now it's just trying to remind myself what 25 year old james would have done with that thing 25 year old james would have seen that business class and been like oh my god he would have uh you know looked at the dividend you just took from the business and that would have been life-changing the only time my ego kind of really pisses me off at the moment is this kind of lack of emotion towards what were once great achievements and i think that's part of my motivational mechanisms but i beat myself up about it i actually said to my business partner a few months ago we took a dividend from the business and i said to my missus i go this is really annoying that's a good amount of money and i feel nothing and i was so i go i messaged my manager i messaged luke i go look i shouldn't i'm only 35 i shouldn't be feeling numb to this amount of money 10 years ago i would have been fucking ecstatic i would have gone to this bar i would have said everyone's on a fucking drink come on like who knows a dealer and uh i would have just had so much fun with it so then i said to my business partner he goes do you know what we're going to take 10 of this dividend we're going to go to a bar in sydney we're going to put our card behind the bar and we're just going to get shit faced and anyone we bump into some lad from tiktok was like i follow your stuff i'm like get a drink are these your mates get them a drink cards behind the bar i said how old are you boys 19 i was like get him a drink you're probably poor at 19 i was and we had the best time on 10 of it so for me it's still having fun still enjoying the little things so fun almost dissipates the the yeah the the ego thing that annoys me is what has become normal and i never want to lose track of that like i never want to you know there are little things you buy dinner and not even think about it and then i leave the restaurant i go mate you you didn't earn that in a week when you were younger and then you just tap because you can't be bothered for people to split the bill

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12:24I knew 100 ,000 followers would be a big moment. For 100 ,000 followers, I popped a bottle of champagne in Ibiza, me and my friend, high five, we made it. A million followers didn't really feel any different. If anything, it felt worse. Why did it feel worse? I don't know. I'd just been working towards it for a much longer period of time. And then Luke and I, my manager, we would actually, every time my following grew by 1 ,000, we'd race each other. It'd be like 9.67, 9.68. If you beat me to it, I'd be like, fuck. But then when we hit a million, we stopped doing it. because you're not going to say a million and one million and two then another thing where in my head i'd made it so important to hit that mark so that if people land on my page it's a million i always think how sad it looks at 999 or 998 i also thought then i need to get it to 1.1 million so i can abuse vegans and not have to worry about it dropping below yeah and then every single time it's gone the amount of happiness is really short-lived and i kind of get angry with myself because the first time it felt better same way that um even buying a car recently i bought my dream car and i sit in it and go i think i was happier when i bought my first secondhand golf because actually i think as success goes on the returns and rewards you hype them up more in your mind and they're less they're less they don't feel quite as you expect when you reach them so it's really important for people to realize that if you try and get an uber when it's raining on a Friday afternoon, you get a surcharge of 1.7 and you got to pay it because everyone wants an Uber.

13:53But we seem to tell ourselves there's an Uber surcharge on happiness the further we go in life. And it's actually the other way around. It's one times when you get it first, then it's 0.9 at the next, then it's 0.7. And I spoke to someone who sold his business for a few hundred million. And I go, what did you do? He goes, I sat in my hotel room on my own, I cracked a beer and ate a pizza. And he kind of sat there and was like, oh. Everyone I've interviewed on this podcast who sold their business they're always just like the founder of tyrell's crisps who's the you've had tyrell's crisps yeah i told my parents about that as well that's the brand though yeah yeah yeah yeah unreal crisps and he's got a great little phrase which is when you're in the winner's enclosure you realize that all the fun was in the race that there's not one person i've sat here in front of who's sold their business and they've said and it's that kind of that deflating feeling when all feel winds feel the same what is the sort of antidote to that because a lot of people listen to this podcast thinking thinking when i get waitrose things will be happy when i get sainsbury's things will be i'll be happy when i sell it things will be happy like all winds feel the same then what is the same reward it's the same hormone it's the same neuroplasticity it's the same serotonin dopamine whatever it is that you're getting just because the size of the things and the numbers and the stakes change, it doesn't impact that.

15:12Same way that if you watch a sad film, the sadness feels the same in all domains, whether it's the notebook or something else. When you shed a tear, it's not like you're getting 10 times sadness on one film versus another, maybe some emotional pause. Every time you get pissed off driving, it's pretty much the same. The levels of it might change a bit, but ultimately you forget about it the next day. With wins, we just build them up because it's an easy way to motivate ourself. It's an easy way to say, because even now I need something to make me miserable so I stay motivated. So one thing at the moment is my mortgage, my parents' mortgage, my sister's mortgage.

15:44I kind of see myself in work at the moment that if I was, if we were to sell shares in Nutonic or any of the other businesses I have, they would be the first things that I would look to pay off. So I kind of say to myself now, James, you need to work hard or your parents are going to have to downsize. That's kind of the narrative in my mind. But I know the second I pay off my parents' mortgages, my sister's, mine, whatever, they'll come a day and go, cool, what's making me miserable now? what can I have to make me miserable I know exactly what it will be haven't got enough cars, house isn't big enough I'll move into a bigger house and then there'll be a fucking leak in the wall and I'll go I shouldn't have moved into this fucking big house, what I should have done is got more debt and moved into a bigger one and I'll probably continue to do that for the rest of the world it's almost linked to that sort of barbell strategy you're trying to find things to get pissed off with where there's not enough and that almost is the antidote to this all wins feel the same yeah it's exactly that where so much of but the journey i know that i'm gonna be on this hedonic treadmill non-stop i know that i'll buy a car that i really want and then i'll get a little bit bored of it then i'll get annoyed at myself that i got bored of it and then this has just continued to happen but as long as that journey of just constantly being disappointed motivated unhappy satisfied back to unhappy as long as that makes lives around me more stress-free i'm happy to take the stress.

17:01Thank you so much for listening to that espresso. I hope you enjoyed your morning coffee and are ready for the day. Let's be having you, boy. And please do subscribe, follow the podcast, share this espresso on WhatsApp if you liked it. And also there's a link to our newsletter in the show description. I spend 15 hours toiling and writing this bad boy. It's full of wonderful wisdom from the biggest names in food and drink. You're not going to get these in a business book. So please subscribe and thank me later.

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22:30So what's interesting with America, have you listened to the George Mack episode with Chris? They talk about how a British accent is a superpower that you can only use if you go to another country. So they don't realize how many British people have this superpower because they don't leave. But then I think that the UK and America pro rata have the same amount of smart, well-educated people coming out of universities, yet the UK produces five times less comedians. and they have a theory that if you're a comedian in america you go hey i'm gonna be a stand-up they're like man that's fucking great we're gonna come to your show man yeah you're doing in america though you're doing the uk they're like get a job mate you know get a fucking real job and george mack has a theory that the funniest man in the uk is probably in a steelworks factory in leeds whereas in america he's got his own but then on the macro level we've all got very good crack and chat because of that like you know you they're one of the most hilarious people like in the pubs and the cultures because the weather's so green he would have had his ambitions squished to the point that they go don't waste your time being a comedian just be funny at work yes where in america they said don't be funny at work you can make something of yourself and i have a feeling that you know say i'm on a train in new york and i'm drinking this hey man it's cool we can drink like oh it's mine no way man yes what's it carl i don't drink them but i'll fucking buy a case that's what they're like uh so much of even well i haven't got the biggest following in america but the second you tell someone that you're being entrepreneurial they love that go get attitude because in the uk i think they have this kind of zero-sum attitude where if you're doing well it's because you're oppressing other people oh your business made a million pounds how many people were oppressed for you to do that whereas in america they go you've got a business you hire people you employ you pay your taxes god damn man that's that's what we need and there's there's definitely a culture issue in the uk with this where it doesn't mean you can't do great in the UK but certainly people are a lot less happy to see you do well and I think even a lot of maybe even the people that follow me are actually watching to see me fall off to see me you know fail at something see me get cancelled because tearing someone down makes you feel better I think that for a lot of people anyway especially those with maybe more fixed mindsets surrounding success and what it looks like there's a real bitter taste to and I think I think it has got a lot to do with the economy do you know what's crazy since interest rates went up comments have got worse.

24:45It could be social media. I can't say this for sure. But when I look at it, I now genuinely see unhappy people. And it makes me sad, even if they're ripping into me, taking the piss out of my hairline, whatever it is. I look at it and I think, fuck, this is just a temperature test of unhappy people. And I think that maybe if our economy was doing better, would they be in a better mindset? Because if you take away someone's amount of pubs closing, nightclubs closing, the amount of people that didn't go on holiday couldn't afford a holiday all the people that's even just financially becoming worse off they're just becoming more cocooned in their home more into echo chambers algorithms are feeding them things they want to see and things they don't they're becoming bitter and resentful a lot of men probably more lonely than ever the dating market is only going to make things worse we have like this perfect recipe for very bitter people not to say they don't have the same problems in america but in the uk it's not like today you're You're not exactly going to go for a walk and clear your head.

25:42It's pissing it down with rain. It's freezing. And even my parents have been gaslit. September, we got all the radiators on. My missus from Australia, she's freezing. I'm like, it's September. They're like, so what? I'm like, I feel like there's someone I should be able to complain to. I'm like, Ibiza still have closing parties for the next month. We should not be here in coats. And who can I complain to? Bloody Labour government. What have they done? They're in the weather for us. so like uh yeah it's it's one of those things that culturally here it's it's difficult it's a bit of a slog but it's still it's still fun america as far as the markets get into we've our sales are about 50 50 between america and usa at the moment and when we were in australia sorry or no america and uk for tonic okay yeah we can't actually produce in australia because where is it produced is it so we have factories in the uk and america okay so we have different How did you, because, yeah, just before we go into that, did you have, because that's a really smart move from people like, you know, Dashwater.

26:42Yeah. That's like Jack, who's the founder of that, that's my good mate of mine. And they've moved to Australia, but they've actually built a factory, whereas most people try and ship it and it's fucked. Like who told you to do those two things, was it? So one of our partners is a company called Genflow. Yeah. And Genflow help creators monetize through products, whether supplements, whatever. So they have pre-existing relationships with the factories in both places, which meant that once we had our formulation, we could go to America, find a good factory, work with them that work with some of the biggest brands, same in the UK.

27:11The cans have got to be different in different territories. We were hoping to launch in Australia as well. However, the TGA, the Therapeutics Goods Association are your dickheads. So even theanine, we have 400 milligrams. In Australia, you're not allowed to have more than 250. So on one nootropic alone, boom, can't produce the drink there. And the shipping is extortionate. get it in. But then when you look at Australia, 27 million people, when you look at America's population, you think, hold on, we could just increase our sales by 10 % in America, and you're not going to lose sleep over Australia.

27:45We are going to look to diversify our offering to get into Australia. But America is a territory to get into, into crack, I think is going to be a priority because one, customers, two, culture, three, I also think that there are so many big carbonated, heavily caffeinated drinks for your gym bros, but there's still this massive culture of people editing, scripting, hustling, trying to get people's attention to go after. Espressos is sponsored by supply chain software gurus Unleashed. It talks to your e-com and accounting software. It's helped islands cut admin time in half, get granular clarity on your margins, know where your stock is, don't miss availability.

28:23Brands like Candy Kittens, Tiny Rebel and Trip all use Unleashed and so should you.

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34:27I'm pretty sure I've got some form of ADHD. I know it's trendy. I actually went to get a psych evaluation and they said, oh, you've got anxiety as well. I was like, fuck, that's not cool. I just wanted the cool one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I never wanted meds. The one you can talk about at a bar. Yeah, exactly. Or on a date. But it was great, actually, because the time I tried therapy a few months before I hated it. Why did you hate it? I just didn't vibe it. I was like, I just didn't enjoy it. And it was costing a lot of money. Was that just because you didn't like to get on with a therapist or is it just...

34:55Because it's interesting, someone like, you know, you're super self-aware and you write these amazing books um yeah it's interesting how you didn't jive with yeah i just didn't i just didn't i didn't enjoy the whole process i don't really like talking about my emotions yeah yeah yeah yeah i'd rather not i'd just rather lump it if and and i know that is considered negative but it's some form of coping mechanism and i was i just i just didn't vibe it so then the psych evaluation i had for adhd i've never felt so seen in my life and I was kind of explaining I would explain a little bit about how I am then she tells me some of the reasons to why it is so then I'd tell her a little bit more and then before I knew it I was really sharing some of the most idiosyncratic things that I do on a daily basis and rather than being seen with judgment it was seen with reason and I left that and went back to my missus my partner my business partner and I said to them like thank you I've never said thanks to them before my chaotic mind my lack of organization my terrible short-term memory all of these things I've actually been putting on people around me I've never even thanked them before same way that Luke my manager today will be like here's the address 2 p.m get here this is like here are some of the talking like he literally does so much of my thinking for me because he knows where my weak spots are my missus knows that when I tell her oh I've got a haircut on Friday at 1 p.m I'm not just telling her I'm asking her to remind me so she in the morning goes oh you got your haircut later I'm gonna go thank you so much I went I thought it was on Friday she's like it is Friday oh you know this is where I have those weaknesses but one thing we did discover with the psychologist was this tendency to create a really what would you call it I suppose anxiety is creating a negative outlook on the future but I quite like that because it motivates me in the short term so rather than someone going I should get my work say like a negativity I would say anxiety and maybe even depression in some realms is perceiving a negative outlook of the future yeah that's why i think fertility rates are lower than ever because there's never been so much of a negative outlook on the future so i don't actually think it is sperm counts and you know ivf treatments as much as we think i think it's a subconscious decision to not procreate because of uh potentially a thought process and a prediction that the future is going to be dire so if you knew that the economy was growing and the wages and opportunity were getting better you know yeah pop a couple out let them live good but when all you get exposed to is news negativity and war and all of this we're running out of this running out that you kind of think oh i might as well just enjoy myself and not have kids yeah so one of my productivity mechanisms was definitely for a long time creating a catastrophic vision of the future so it was more so if you don't finish your work tasks you're not going to make any sales you're not going to make any sales you're not going to need money if you don't any money you're going to lose the house if you lose your house you're moving back in with your parents and this kind of negative self-talk would gee me up i'm going for a nap and i'm like no you're not get a couple of these down here do some work at my desk 9 p.m and then i can kind of fully switch off and relax but then when i had kids or when i had my first child suddenly there was something more important than my productivity but i was using my productivity to pin up how well i felt about each day so it's not that i've really you know it's just how well you felt each day as post having your son right yeah so now okay 45 minutes getting a burp out and i might have just started sitting down to get into the discord might have just got into my emails and then you're changing a nappy and then i'm having to really reconstruct in my mind that look it's okay if you're not productive for a week maybe even a month even now the past month i've lived out a suitcase on the floor at my parents house and it's crazy even my parents are really mindful of their energy bills so every time i go in a room it's freezing the radiator has been turned on they've got like a hot water immersion heater so it needs to be turned on to get hot water for the showers but it needs to warm up for like an hour so there's so many things I'm like waking up at 5am the baby wakes me up I'm like that's great I can go put the hot water immersion heater on I've said to my parents as well I was like look next time I get a big payslip let me let me start your hot water out one of these things so it's kind of stressful being at home I've not created any new social media content really in a month i've not seen my videographer i've been doing some amazing things like podcasts just like this i've been doing all kinds of different things but i've then had to really say to myself like snap the fuck out of it this isn't the end of the world it's one month like you said before about progressive overload even training less and working less can set you up to a really good productive you know series in the next few weeks and months so that coping mechanism of using negativity to fuel ambition and creativity comes to a slump when suddenly you end up without the productivity and just the negativity so it's something that i'm working so yeah that's so because i think the more i'm reflecting on that is i think a lot of have you got kids no i haven't got kids but like i'm just uh 30 but i'm using the um a lot of the the creative negative kind of voice in my head which is you know people saying you're not good enough uh the usual fucking suspects that crop up like oh you're a fucking you know idiot i'm like well fuck this let's go and i'll and i'll work and i'll work and i'll work and i get to a point where i've done enough um enough not necessarily tasks i don't i don't see it like that but i've done it enough then i can kind of it just it kind of dissipates that voice in my head yeah it's interesting i never realized that i wasn't sure the last few years if i had an incessant need for attention which could be some coping mechanism from i don't know yeah early childhood whatever yeah i had a great childhood i don't know why that would be the case or it's like a dopamine chasing thing and then looking back at how much i love video games age of empires call of duty whatever it was yeah i think it's probably a dopamine reward system where the content was just a part to play and that's why i get really impatient where say i would film something really good with my mates i want it out the same day so even in australia i film at 10 and 11 i want the edit by 4 or 5 p.m.

40:52because I want to post it and see how well it does we even get to the point where I will post it at a suboptimal time just so when I wake up in the morning I have some analytics to look at the idea of you know this is where people's organization come in they go we'll release this in two weeks I'm like how the fuck do you do that I'm like I want it out tomorrow they're like oh you just released one yesterday get it out tomorrow uh so I'm definitely guilty of that as well 100 % I want to put things out and one thing I like is with this business working with Chris very organized he's the organized party I'm the chaotic one so Chris will we we lost sleep over the fact whether or not there should be a dash between research and backed and I was on a call this was like a half hour discussion and Chris was adamant he saw it and copied that there was the dash wasn't there he wanted heads to roll from that whereas I'm the kind of person sat there on the call just glazing over my eyes I'm like I'm not listening Chris will message me going I need your opinion on something in the slack channel about a new flavor or product development and i'll reply thinking oh shit yeah and he'll go that was from a month ago you replied to a message from a month ago but then on the flip side of that we'll get some feedback on the creatives that we need people will go to bed and they'll wake up to three videos already edited already done already good to go because i'm on the inverted time zone i kind of wait for them to go to bed at 10 a.m and i know they're waking up at 5 p.m so i want everything done by then i'll stand over my videographer's shoulder and i'll be like come on mate let's do this chop here let's move this so i love that side of delivering in a short-term period but again if you gave me 10 things to do you'll get none but if you give me one thing to do i'll do it really well the same day again where people can mismanage me by giving me too much but even often i'll say to people okay give me a brief of the task let me know the audience we want and let me know what you want them to do i just need those things i don't want a script i don't want to add creative just tell me what and where to do it well so what are the three things the so tell me what is the uh kind of idea of the content?

42:45What do you want to do? Do we want to promote the drink? Do we want to expand into a territory? Do we want to notify a territory we're restocked? Who's the audience? Are they existing customers? Are they previous customers? Are they people that have never seen the drink before? And where do you want me to send them? Do you want me to send them to the website? Do you want me to send them to a sign-up page? Do you want me to sign them to a squeeze page or try and get their contact information? That's really where I enjoy the strategy. Espressos is sponsored by supply chain software gurus unleashed it talks to e-com and accounting software it's helped islands cut admin time in half get granular clarity on your margins know where your stock is don't miss availability brands like candy kittens tiny rebel and trip all use unleashed and so should

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45:09Thank you.

45:39Thank you.

46:21So if I make a mistake in Jiu Jitsu, chances are I'm going to end up in a bad position. So let's say the bad position would be you mounting me, you on my back with your arms around my neck, or you having full control of my leg and being able to break it. Let's say those three scenarios. However, although that sounds really bad and doom and gloom, I now have a perfect opportunity to work my way out of a bad position. So if I never made mistakes, I would not be very good at the positions that are most important to escape from. So sometimes through playfulness, I'll get myself in a sticky situation where a white belt is on my back with his arms fully wrapped around my neck trying to choke me out.

47:00I then need to be grateful for being there because now I've got someone giving all the strength he's got in the world because the higher belts conserve their strength a little bit. The white belts try and kill you. The white belts are the most dangerous on the mat. But then in that very moment, I can embrace the mistake because I'm now going to become more competent at escaping a fully locked up rear naked choke. When I do make a mistake and someone's got me in a heel hook, I now get to practice escaping from a heel hook. If it goes wrong, we can tap and start again. But if it goes right, I can become better at that.

47:28So as you become more experienced, you're more open to making mistakes. Because when you make a mistake, you then get to a point that you're either ready for or you're not. So I think that in business and marketing, people are trying to do so much without making mistakes. But if you do that, you never get good at the important places. So for instance, if you try and curate your email marketing to look perfect, you might never really realize what works for people and what doesn't. The first thing I ever bought from email marketing was a guy who wrote an email drunk at his dad's funeral. and he said at the end, if you think it's inappropriate for me to sell off my dad's death, go fuck yourself.

48:02Oh my God, I bought his book. It's great. I ignored all the emails before. That to him was letting someone advance their position somewhere dangerous. Now, if half his email list unsubscribed, he's tapped out. When you tap out, you start again. Now, if he got more sales than ever, he's now realized how to escape a very dangerous position. So without being vulnerable to letting your situation potentially worse by maybe being polarizing in your content, telling people to fuck off. You know, imagine some of the things that, you know, with beer, with alcohol, with whatever, you can actually have a bit of fun with it.

48:39You could be, you could say, remember when Yorkie had the chocolate bar, not for girls? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Little things like that. If that campaign completely fucked them in the sales, they can always tap outside again with something else. It's never really the end of the world. Even Bud Light are doing fine now. you know, they pulled the vets card and they're back. They're probably better than ever. And Dana White was, well, it sounds like it's all about the money. It's a fucking sponsor, you dickheads. Of course it's about the money. So imagine say, let's say you've got an IT security company.

49:10You should say to your, you know, get all the personal data off there, go, cool. Take the website down for a second. Let's let people hack us. Let's let ourselves get hacked, right? Then the second you get hacked, you go, cool, go to work. and then you would be in the real situation where you have to do something. That would make your IT security infrastructure. I'm not saying it's a good idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm saying that's kind of the premise of it. Or, you know, hey, let's try a campaign that could be really, really bad for the business. And if we do lose sales, let's recuperate it over the next three months.

49:41But only by doing those things can you really see if things are going to work better. And what are some of the things you've, sorry to interrupt, what are some of the things you've done where you've put yourself in those really vulnerable situations? And what have you learned? Like any specific examples? In the onset, they probably went a bit too far, a few lawsuits, but just saying what, putting things really straight on content and just being like, do you know what? This post could lose me 10 ,000 followers. It could gain me 10 ,000. The only way we're gonna know is by doing it. I remember I made some mistakes that cost me.

50:10There was one where someone commented on a post of mine and they said, it's okay for you. You're a cisgender, straight white male. And I replied and screenshot it and posted it going, or I outworked you for a decade. And my God, there were like news companies messaging me going, oh, James, we just wondered if you wanted to comment on this. I'm like, Luke, should I comment on this? He's like, no, they're about to tear you down in a news piece. I was like, really? He was like, yeah. And I remember that all kicking off. But then I was proud of what I said because it was what I was thinking. But then there are other times where someone's chatting shit and I'm going to make a post about it.

50:45And when I post it, I get anxiety. Oh, this could go badly. And then the next day I've grown by 75 ,000 followers and my inbox is like, oh, you were so right. That post helped me understand this and this. So again, we joke around where Luke and I said for a long time, we called lawsuits speeding tickets. And we said, if you're not getting sued, you're not moving fast enough. And it was kind of that fast and loose approach to marketing that I think helped. It's not for everyone. It's not for everyone. But that's how you become better at those things. And my manager comes from an industry much more cutthroat than mine.

51:20So he's battle-hardened to love. What's Luke do? So he came from nightlife promoting to running festivals and events. So I actually met, I was in Ibiza at a wedding and met a promoter out there and I was talking to him about Newtonic. He was like, yeah, yeah, I fucking know Luke. So he sent him an email when we were at this wedding. His name's, my mate's called Joe Iglesias, who's the DJ. I don't know what the manager's name was. And that's kind of how this sort of linked in, which is super interesting. But yeah, so he was doing the nightlife thing. nightlife club promoting festivals but then you have artists who you know two weeks before headlining a gig oh we want 50 grand more or when they're signing contracts they'll pull you out through the whole contract signing process then just you're about to put pen to paper oh if you give us 10 grand more we'll do it today and as a promoter you're like fuck i've already sold tickets for this yeah cool you have another 10 grand yeah you would have people pull out of events you'd have people say oh you know i'm not doing this if that person's doing it as well you can have people overdose on drugs in your crowd and you'd be liable for manslaughter and people posting stories about oh they weren't real sniffer dogs that was the security guards pet dog and there's nothing you can do to challenge those claims so there's real serious things happening then when you come into the world of having a brand with the drinks business or oh i want a public apology people like oh this isn't serious legitimate lawsuits oh that's defamation it's actually my personal opinion as i said in the post you know so the things in this realm just aren't as serious to what they can be in other places so having someone who's battle hardened and being in those bad situations definitely helps what's he taught you everything i'm pretty sure that he's he's almost the person i go to for like a second opinion but a lot to do with business relationships um and as far as you can get inside your own head a lot and imagine this if i was to ask you to look through your organization or to your friendship group and to point and pick things that maybe your friends or colleagues or employees aren't good at you can do it really easily not being a twat you could go oh he's great a sales copy but he's not too good at speaking in front of camera oh dale he's really good at chatting up girls but you know he's awful at driving this person but then when it comes to picking what you're not good at we have blind spots if i was to say if you'd say james what aren't you good at i pull a blank or i pull a premeditated answer to it so having someone that can see your blind spots and attribute your strengths and also help you understand your weaknesses i'll probably say that what are your blind spots well this is it i think this would be a premeditated answer but it would definitely be organization short-term memory patience um i would say what i've managed to do over the last maybe 10, 15 years is use those probably negative personality traits to benefit my business.

54:14Whereas in corporate, I was a fucking nightmare. I hated it, couldn't stand it. Sitting at a desk, definitely rebellious. Oh, you finished work at 5.30, but I finished my work, it's 4.30. I'll sit here for an hour. Fuck off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or just corporate chat where I hated the fact that, you know, in recruitment, someone goes, James, what was your weekend? What'd you get up to? I couldn't really say that I had a bin bag around my neck and I threw up two bottles of wine into a bin bag and needed a line of cocaine to straighten myself out. You know, I couldn't say it. I was like, yeah, I just went for dinner.

54:47No, I'm just lying to people. Went to Pizza Express. Yeah, ended up getting chucked out of a club in Reading at 22. You know, I can't say stuff like that. So yeah, it's one of those things that allowed me to be this chaotic, semi-unprofessional, because even in some respects now, I'm still semi-unprofessional to what some people would think. Oh, you can't be rude to people. You can't call people out. But it's just on brand. Espressos is sponsored by supply chain software gurus Unleashed. It talks to your e-com and accounting software. It's helped islands cut admin time in half, get granular clarity on your margins, know where your stock is, don't miss availability.

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