Espresso: The Crazy Origin Story Behind The Devonshire, Soho

0:06one thing that as I said before we hit record that just fascinates me endlessly is so I've done a bit of work for i think i sent you some i don't know you tried it that white mouse soup that irish as i said chili crack yeah so they're based still crack i should say based in dublin they started at the fumbly market uh-huh um and now they've built that kind of brand but i used to go over a lot to dublin and what i and i felt like as i say there's this there's this real texture to it i can't really put my finger like i can't pinpoint a word on it so i've kind of experienced it in that regard and i've experienced working with um uh with lawkin and his and his family who run the business but one thing that fascinates me is all the some of the best storytellers in the world are irish james joyce um oscar wilde um you've got o casey you've got beckett yeah so many there what what being an irishman why do you think i mean these like Ulysses is one of the best books of people say it's one of the best books of all time I've tried to read it about eight times I can't get through it I can't get through it why do you think that is I think there's a there's a value thing and the culture of um of enjoying talking shite you know and being able to go back and you know have entertaining conversations and conversations generally being an important thing and for me it's really important because I think our business is all about stories you know and you know what what you're bringing in terms of the lore and the story that you give guests to be able to tell when they leave the business is really really central to what to what i think pubs and restaurants and places where people gather are about i hadn't thought of it like that i suppose there's constant like the currency and the energy is the storytelling well if you think about the devonshire it's all about stories you know it It really is.

1:59I mean, and they're true, luckily. You know, the bit about me and Charlie meeting up, the bit about why Ashley's here, the whole lore and story about the Guinness, about the butchery, about what we've done with the cooking and the fire and the woods and, you know, all of the trials and tribulations. We're very conscious that that's currency and that people need these bits and pieces in order to sort of have something to tell about their experience here. Yes. yeah i think all those stories intertwine and then that's because one of the things i wanted to ask you is how this explosion happened as i said i was with george and dom in suffolk and they were saying our friend osha's about to open this pub called the devonshire um this was kind of i think mid to early october times i think you guys opened we opened on the 5th of november yeah and then it just went this explosion happened i remember my first time i came here long story but i'd lost my passport absolutely it was a nightmare i'd lost my fucking passport i was meant to be going to paris the next day and i came in here and i had two pints of uh guinness and it just felt like a big cuddle i was like this is what this is so nice to hear this is what a great booze is about but what yeah what would you say like how was anything you put in place beforehand for this explosion to happen like how did it happen there was loads of things and in hindsight it was that that theme of stories is is really important you know so like this green room that we're sitting in at the moment which was an afterthought we thought really long and hard about what the story of this would be and we wanted to be a place for art and music and people people who are uh are creative minded to feel comfortable and safe and and that's really worked you know the same with the little boots in there that we that we we swap around for the for the restaurant the way the bar is, the little nods to culture, all of those things.

3:55And we were very fortunate that Charlie and Ash and I had so much time to plan and think about all these things. And every single plan or thought that we had made a story, I think, down to the knives that we use for the steak in the restaurant by Cato. That was one of our great stories and really, really lovely collaboration with them. and I think yeah all of those things together give us a bit of texture and colour that people can take away and go oh well I experienced this or I saw that and I quite like that or whatever it is you know even the sign writing on the front to go and find Perry who's a old school hand sign writer to properly do all the outside in the way it would have been done 100 years ago it's a nice little vignette yes and when you talked about the beginning about the guys on the door being we want them to feel like ghosts and wear their normal clothes that is the story and as i opened it with the story i had of the devon show when i was here on friday was that i was like we're getting ushered in but it's in the most calm and kind of serene warm way which is now i've never had before in a part that really comes from the culture you know everything everything we do is pointed at our business which is to make people feel comfortable safe happy and well looked after that is that is core to what we're doing and we think about that all the time whether it's where furniture is how the how the staff engage with you how you check in how things work how you feel when you get served all of those bits and pieces and the door the door or the the uh the we don't call them door staff that we we we have a word him and i've forgotten what it is it's monday morning mate don't worry yeah yeah yeah yeah what's the story of you because because charlie was at uh was flat ironed yeah and then ashley was was at the fat duck yeah what like how did you this the three trio come together charlie and i go back to a round table discussion that happened i think it was around 2012-13 with the caterer magazine and we just happened to be sat at a round table with a load of other operators talking about how the business was at the time we ended up getting on quite well during the conversation went for a pint afterwards and ended up becoming reasonably close and chatting about stuff and Charlie and I did a project in 2014 where at the ship we roasted a whole ox on um on a huge great big pole with cartwheels on either end there's a great video of it on youtube it's very fun uh one of the best things i've ever did and we sort of collaborated on that and began talking about doing a pub at that stage but i had no intention of doing anything apart from staying at young's for a long time and uh it gradually came to fruition over a long time so there had been hundreds of hours of conversation about this before we even looked at this site so we had an idea what direction we were going to go in and charlie's a wonderful wonderful guy he's so clever he thinks really slow he's amazing with numbers he's strategically one of the best operators out there and you know his journey with flat iron to go from zero to 13 restaurants over seven eight years um is an incredible story and that for me flat iron i think is one of the best if not the best multiple operating restaurant chains in the country and uh you know it's credit to him and he's taking a lot of that expertise in here with with with me and ashley and uh i think it really shows ashley sort of came along uh following a conversation that me and charlie had been having because we both remembered a particular dish at the Heinz Head in Bray.

7:44Oh, I've been there. Going back to 2003, 4, 5, before I got Michelin star, where there was this suet pudding and it was ox tail and kidney and in a sauce, really delicious steamed pudding with a sauce over the top and I can still remember the feeling of putting my spoon through it and then tasting this delicious meat and it stuck out to me as the best iteration of traditional British pub food I'd ever had I said this to Charlie in a conversation at Norman's Coaching Horses one one after one afternoon and he's gone fuck I remember that dish as well absolutely banging I wonder who uh who who was behind that because obviously it's not a Heston dish and I've gone I'm certain it was Ashley and he's gone Ashley do you know him not not really but I've got a friend who knows him do you know him not really I've got a friend do knows them so we both reached out to him and two days later we're having a pint with him and that was it quick one guys espressos have got a brand new sponsor unleashed unleashes inventory management software that talks directly to your finance and econ software we use unleashed daily islands i bloody love it we've got our admin time in half saving approximately 30k a year why use it save money save headaches save stress get granular clarity on your margins know where your stock is don't miss availability look your favorite brands literally use unleashed as their backbone candy kids tiny rebel trick always religiously look there's a link in the show notes please feel free to book a call with josh and his wonderful sales team at unleashed they're amazing even nothing comes of it and even better news you'll get your first month free if you reference hungry thank you and how are you how are you similar and different so one of the things that fascinates me is how how like the storytelling, the storytelling bubbles down from the top.

9:41Yeah. But yeah, I love how you guys are similar and then how you're, how you're different across the three of you. We all love pubs and we all love pints. We all love stories. We're all really good family men as well. I think, um, and you know, we've all got kids. We all like our holidays. We all like a bit of balance, but I think we're all completely besotted and, and, and think all the time about our business you know what we do and pubs restaurants how to do things well i think that it that would be how i would describe how similar we are i love the word besotted i haven't completely described that as a some people say obsessed but i think that's quite a nefarious way of saying yeah it's a bit more emotional yeah besotted yeah because i think i'm a bum besotted with this podcast that's i love that aware how a word can completely change things And I think that's the similarity and we really, really care about it.

10:35And all three of us really care about the details. But I think we care about the details in different ways, which I think is interesting. Because actually, you look at my career and what I've done and you look at Charlie's career and what I've done, you look at Ashley's career and what he's done, they're really, really, really different. You know, I've always been the front of house, front man, maitre d' type, you know, publican, mind host type character who deals with customers day to day and staff and customer interaction day to day. Charlie's much more thoughtful overview a little bit more corporate always about the big picture and you know the business side of things and doing the deals and making sure that the margins work and making sure that best suppliers and best practice and all that and Ashley has always been the food perfectionist I mean he invented the triple cook chip for God's sake do you know what I mean and you know things like the journey to get to the bread that we've done, the journeys you get to the chocolate mousse.

11:38You know, we were cooking for a full year before we opened down at Mission Kitchen. Not a lot of people know that, but we started... That's where I used to be, based in Vauxhall. Yeah. Yeah, that's where I was based for six years. We started cooking there. We started cooking before that, but we took a space in Mission Kitchen in January 23. And we were still cooking there in October. And so that's where all the dishes and the cooking was developed. and actually oversaw that with Jamie and us, yeah, and our exec, Ev, as well, who still works with us on the food side. It's interesting seeing the kind of, as you say, the texture between you three and then how it kind of spills into this manifestation.

12:23Well, I think an interesting observation came from a very good friend of mine, Bob, when he met the three of us for a pint, he's gone, it's really interesting, you three, because, Osh, you're total fucking chaos. And I do think in a chaos way, whereas Charlie's complete and absolute order, and then you've got Ashley, who's complete and absolute perfection. And I think between the three of us, we got a good balance. Yeah, chaos, order, perfection. I love the synergy. I think I've listened to a couple of, read a couple of interviews you've done, Osh, in terms of, I think you talk about the coaching horses, another boozer in Soho.

13:05Love it, yeah. And I think you talk about the landlady there or the landlord, and you say the best pubs have to have a landlord or a publican who's there kind of a lot of the time. I'm very set on that as an idea and have been always. And I think that's changed a lot in England because even when I came over, most pubs had a landlord and usually the landlord lived upstairs or the landlady. And just because of the way that the corporate owners of pubs over the years have sold off the accommodation upstairs, in relative terms, they've lowered the wages that landlords get and the benefits they get and how they're perceived.

13:47And then there's the added baggage of the job itself, which has become much more paperwork based with all of the red tape and the procedures which we rightly have to do. And that takes a lot of the time away from landlords. Also, a lot of them only work 40 hours a week, which for me is bonkers. But then again, I'm a dinosaur. You do see some incredible pubs, though. And when you do see an incredible pub, the chances are 99 % there's a landlord, a landlady or a figurehead there who is in charge of it, runs it and takes pride and responsibility for the day to day. Yeah, it's fascinating because I think I go to a lot of pubs, right?

14:31Every weekend I'm going to a different pub. Glad to hear that. But I think a lot of them can feel kind of a bit IKEA flat pack in that it's like it's rinsing, especially with the big corporate chains. There's numerous of them, right? I used to work for a cheese wholesaler called Harvey and Brockless. I used to be a man in a van when I left uni. And I'd go into the kitchens and you'd see this. It was kind of the system behind the scenes. Thank you so, so much for listening. It honestly means the world to me. I hope you enjoyed your morning coffee and go and have an amazing day. Let's be having you.

15:07If you want the full episode, it will be in the show notes. A link will be in the show notes for the full episode. Thank you so much. Please leave friends as well. It means the world to me. Thank you.