Oli Russell-Cowan: How Liquid Death are Taking Their US Success to Europe, Creative Audacity, Tapping Into Interwoven Subcultures and Bottom-Up Creative Leadership

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2:40But I want to start with surfing. You're a surfer. We talked literally just one minute ago about you going to Santa Teresa in Costa Rica. You're out in kashkai and lisbon um which is kind of the surf town and i really believe there's a lot of parallels between brand building and surfing so there's the kind of the leap of faith like leaning into fear and taking the wave wiping out like when you're building a startup you wipe out all the time and so how you get up from that wipe out um in researching liquid death two words came up all the time creativity and audacity and i love those words because i think so many brands want to be audacious and creative yet there's often a gap between actually doing it and it's almost like catching that wave actually leaning in and being creative and audacious and um i saw that video you put on your linkedin of that fucking nut job who was surfing down nasrae on skis chuck patterson yeah chuck patterson yeah like i was like that that small video and nasrae for listeners is like one of the um it's like what would you what is nasrae just to give some context uh so nasrae is the biggest wave biggest surfable wave in the world uh it's about two hours north of lisbon in portugal and yeah the place is like i think now it's kind of almost turned into the coliseum of big wave surfing you can kind of go there at the cliff and watch it and it's absolutely insane and chuck chuck's like he's kind of like if there if there was like a he man of of action sports it's chuck he can basically he can ski he can surf he can snowboard and then he's got this thing where he skis on on big waves and he recently did it a couple of weeks ago in Nazarene it's absolutely mine it's just mind-blowing it's wild because i watched that documentary with the guy who found Nasray.

4:38I don't know, the American guy. Garrett Magamorra, yeah. Yes, that's it. And then I watched the documentary. Is it Kenny Lay or Kenny Lai? The guy who does all those fucking weird spins on the wave. Is it, you know, Kenny, the guy with the long barnet? Is it Kenny? Have I got this name wrong? I'm not sure. Anyway, so it was really interesting. But to my point, I'll put it in the show notes for listeners. There's this video of this guy called Chuck who's basically going down a wave that looks like the size of the fucking shard in london and he's just he's going down it but it's like there's so many less lessons for challenger brands it's leaning into fear it's it's the bumpy journey it's the holding on by the the um the the kind of holding on to the holding onto your seatbelt kind of thing but i'd love to know and we're going to use this as a lens to explore creativity and audacity but i think to start i'd love to know um and i think you'd said that you know you'd surfed in 30 different countries from israel to west samoa what's been the best wave of your life and like could you paint a picture of what that felt like describe that feeling it's pretty tricky to sort of pick one i mean i've got I've got moments um from different places um yeah I mean probably most recently last not last Christmas the one before we we did a road trip from here to Morocco and I surf like on my own during Christmas it probably it would have been better with mates and with some people to be honest but I was kind of kind of stuck on my own out there um like a pretty pretty famous wave and it's like one of the longest waves in the world and it breaks for about a kilometer maybe a bit longer and i just couldn't believe that i was just out there like on my own like no no one around maybe because of the time of year i'm guessing um but that was like yeah like three days just sat out there i'd come back see my family and my kid i'd be like yeah that was amazing i scored and they're like they don't care um but they're like where are we gonna go for lunch um but yeah i mean that that's probably like that definitely stands out as like a recent trip um but also over here in portugal where i live it was one of the main reasons why why i moved out here um the waves are amazing there's lots of different different places where you can go whether it's sort of beach breaks for learning or some heavier beach breaks through to to reefs and points and it's got a bit of a mixture and like the waves in Nazarene people think that like I don't surf them I'm rubbish right I'm not going out and any of that big stuff but um out there it's kind of it breaks pretty consistently at a large size so you can go and watch it and it sort of the season starts in November until about March um and that's just wild to see that size of just the power kind of behind behind it all and witness it right on top of the cliff top um yeah so here in morocco uh probably are the ones that kind of stand out most recently i think the point you said there about and i think it does relate to the founder's journey is like when you're out there on your own because i think a lot of founders listen to the to this podcast is there is there's something inherent about uh having to to be the one out there on your ones ultimately when all is said and done it's it's a kind of it can be quite a a lonely journey so i think there's definitely parallels there in terms of like um i think that another common theme is is like this leaning in into fear um and i think there's definitely you know whether you're a brand starting out whether it's catching a wave or going to a a Tesco buyers meeting there are there's there's an element of leaning into fear what talk to me about like how you process fear as you're going into like a scary wave or a scary situation like and then because I think that could be really helpful for listeners in when you've got to face fear in any facet of life I think it's just it's kind of doing it incrementally and building up like no one kind of goes into it and go okay i'm gonna surf a 15 20 foot wave like tomorrow if you haven't started off you know on half a foot or one foot and kind of like learn and progress and build up it's almost like um like to give you an example when i was a and i was a kid i had a pretty bad stutter i'm i'm dyslexic i hate reading out in class uh i'm lousy at public speaking so when covid kind of kicked things off and i was like okay well i've got to do like my business was sort of taking a bit of a nosedive i've got to do something and i started doing a live podcast and it absolutely petrified me to do something recorded live where you know anything could happen and you kind of you do it again and again and again it's just repetition and practicing and it's the same as kind of like you said like getting in front of a buyer like going to a buyer's meeting or something and just doing something that sort of doing something that scares you enough when it just then it just becomes less scary and you thought like now like i love it and it's sort of like if i do public speaking kind of i get a kick out of it but that would have been way scarier than dropping in on a wave for me but i think that's super valuable for listeners in terms of the reps thing because i was the same i started this during lockdown and i generally believe for the first 30 episodes, I was just, I mean, before Charlie Bigham, I mean, it was like, I did Charlie interviewed Charlie Bigham and I was generally pacing up and down my flats, chain smoking cigarettes.

10:32Cause I was so nervous. I was like, I can't do this. I can't do this. And then you do it enough times. And it, the, the, the feeling is the, the feeling goes from nerve nervousness, I think. And it kind of dissipates. And the more reps you do, it turns into excitement. I think nerves and excitement are kind of two sides of the same coin. In terms of this creativity and audacity, so I want to talk about your relationship with Mike Cesario, if I've said that right, mate, the founder of Liquid Death. And I read a quote, through liquid death cesarean's team demonstrated that even the most mundane products could be made exciting with a little creativity and a lot of audacity i would love to know like what are the one or two leadership lessons you've taken from mike specifically on building teams that do creative and audacious things i you know what have you learned from from mike specifically I think it's sort of when you look at what Liquid Def does or in terms of the brand and the content, it is about sort of, I guess being like, I mean, that term gets thrown around quite a bit, but it is the authentic, being authentic, the authenticity of it all where like people within the company, they're not trying to pretend to be something else.

12:12they're like okay well if we're going to produce content how can we make it funny and how can we get it out there into the world where we're trying to entertain people like no one no one wants to see an ad they just switch off as soon as they know that they're being marketed to it's the reverse of that so it's like okay well we're gonna do something let's do something that like what do we find funny and what would our mates find funny as well and it's it's that message that then comes across as like a war like for example mike grew up playing in punk bands and he's a skateboarder he snowboards it's all this it's all this kind of this these subcultures that interconnect and the people within the company like they kind of live and breathe certain elements of certain aspects of these subcultures um whether it's art music action sports um whether it's like horror movies or they're huge comedy fans or if they're comedians things like that so the people like that that's one thing that sort of on the creativity side and then obviously taking a chance putting content out there um we're still in startup mode so we can kind of you can kind of act quite quickly with things that are kind of happening within pop culture um instead of if it's a huge massive corporation just jumping through all these kind of loopholes to get everything done um so that's quite exciting but it is it is down to like building building getting the right team getting the right people involved that that obviously get it but you know they're they're part of it and um they they are these subcultures whether they're musicians whether they're athletes whether they're artists the what you said there about we're still in startup mode i think it's it's really fascinating there's uh there's a book i read called the rational optimist by matt ridley which i just read it in costa rica actually and he basically says innovation is always a bottom-up thing so it's like when you're small teams it's really easy to innovate because it's like it's kind of when you start out you're the founder maybe three or four people like yourself in in london you can speak on slack super super easily if you've got an idea as you said you can react to pop culture really really easily that's super easy when innovation comes bottom up and like creativity comes from bottom up when it comes top down which is kind of more the sterile typical corporate company then it becomes really slow as you say you've got to go through the loopholes um you've got to get everything has to get signed off of the meeting about a meeting about me it's just it's a complete rigmarole what i find fascinating is these these businesses that are global a bit like yourself well like yourselves like who gives a crap the toilet paper brand i interviewed the founder of that the other week simon is how you as you're getting bigger quite literally in terms of distribution around the globe team size how you kind of navigate that paradox of getting bigger but staying small could you speak to that?

15:17I think so, I think it's kind of like with these things, like having the foundation, the right foundations in place, so for example when we're trying to grow out internationally it's kind of looking at the core elements of the company whether it's like marketing, sales, operations and then in terms of sort of what we're doing internationally is sort of, okay, what worked in the US when they started four and a half years ago and how do we replicate that in the bespoke market and kind of put our own spin on it, but how did that work and then how are we going to execute that in another market? So sort of taking it from the US and then looking at the UK when we launched in April, for example on my end looking at lifestyle marketing and product seeding and making sure we're in contact with the right people getting in the right the right events right venues and having that roadmap was it is is really really beneficial so you kind of look at it and go okay well this worked this didn't this is how we're going to grow it out and yeah hey guys thank you so much for watching this video honestly means the absolute world to me um i'd be so grateful for a small favor please it is so hard on the youtube channel it is so bloody hard um if you please enjoy these videos just click the subscribe button um more subscribers equals bigger guests bigger guests equals better conversations and hopefully you can learn more as you build your and drink brand thank you so so much it's fascinating because this is what i was talking talking to simon at who gives a crap about is we were talking about brands with um humor and who gives a crap the name is quite colloquial so it's like the brits get it the the the people in the states the americans get it the us get it but i was like how do you then go and take that cheeky kind of banter uh that was sound of cringe cheeky banter but how do you kind of take that that colloquialism and put it into say germany or put it into say japan as you become a global brand i love the nuance between us culture and uk culture that's something i just find wildly interesting is there an example where something's landed in the us but then how you've had to tailor tailor it i mean the obvious example of this is the us office versus the uk office very similar programs i think the first season was exact was written by ricky gervais but the actual execution was pretty different if you actually look at it like that and i'd love to know how that works in marketing with liquid death i think it's kind of looking at things where um all of everything that we're doing at liquid death at the moment and and how they scaled it like now like liquid death is the it's the third biggest drinks brand in the world on social media so we've got 7.4 million followers across TikTok and Instagram that has all been all the content everything that they've how they've done that has all been done internally so sort of looking at that and going okay well what out of those sort of out of that resonates with an English speaking audience so like we just we recently launched in Australia for example it's going absolutely crazy over there big sort of obviously connections with with the with the Aussie market with the UK market with the US same mother tongue so looking at those things it's kind of like okay well these are going to work something sometimes maybe if it could be say a US sport for example it may not resonate in the uk or in australia as strongly as it does in the us is an example of that um i think there's kind of i mean there's there's there's things out there there's campaigns that we've done say if it's been for uh nfl or nba there are huge audiences in the in the uk and australia but for example for for say give the uk example it it's it's not as big as it as football right so it's kind of like okay well and then if you were to do something that was just uk specific this will all come in time like i imagine and then then you're kind of adding in the complexities of language and localization um but it's kind of i guess it's like finding those those core crews and tribes that are in the that get the music whatever genre it is it doesn't necessarily have to be metal everyone kind of thinks of like liquid deaths it's like you know scary goth metal brands it's kind of looking at it going okay well like the whole thing is going okay how can we entertain people um the fact that it looks like a beer there's certain things that people like about the brand and also that then crosses over globally so you could be in japan you could be in different places that as it kind of pops up in these in new countries there'll be there'll be groups and cultures and bars and sub-sectors skateboarding community for example or tattoo culture they'll all get it with because of all like just the funny campaigns that we've been producing that then kind of go viral um they they would have seen it a lot there's a lot of like and we know this from just sort of the fact of like people buying merchandise sort of outside like globally outside of the us um so it's not like the drink is getting it's available in more and more countries and that's all coming but you can kind of look at it and go okay well where are people purchasing from where are the followers coming from outside of the us market and that was sort of like a key with the uk was like the second biggest audience so it was it was just a natural step to kind of have that being you know the the main sort of international market outside of the us first before then exploring all these different other markets yes it's like in terms of the what i think is reassuring for people listening to this is the strategy of still liquid death is still on that adoption curve, is to find the early adopters, your tribe and or sub-tribes, whether that's metallic, heavy metal bands, skaters, surfers, fill in the blank, who no matter where you are in the country or the world will still get it and then use them as almost a microphone to make it an over time household brand.

22:15What you said there about it being people think it's a craft beer. so I'm this is 100 % that you're coffee fest last year so I remember taking two cans back to our stand I was doing a bit of consultancy for a chocolate brand called islands and they're like mate what the fuck is that you having a pint it's like 11am I was like no no no it's it's uh it's liquid death but obviously I knew it all the time um knew all about liquid death because I find it a sick brand what have been some of the kind of unforeseen challenges in getting liquid death going in the uk because as you say as you say it's lots of people know about it but there's also lots of people that don't know about it and how do you get those people brought in in do you see what i mean uh i think you you hit the nail on the head with early adopters so it's kind of if people if people see it at um an event or say it's like a skateboarder that they follow or an artist or a musician first firstly it's kind of what is that it looks like it looks like a beer or you know it looks like an engine drink what they're doing like i still get funny looks if i'm on the underground and i crack one open it like you know like on the district line at 8 30 in the morning and people like what what is going on what is this guy yeah yeah is he drinking but yeah it's sort of like you know is that some special proof um but then it does kind of go and it sort of goes from that to going like okay take it in the us for example it's in it's in target it's in walmart in the uk uh we're in nisa co-op whole foods tesco's so the i guess the mass adoption that you kind of look at it and go okay well it has to for us it's like we're going to support and we're going to be in the right places so whether it's like these cool rock bars dive bars across the uk um like this these are you know these are our people right so it's kind of like um it's there first and then like it slowly kind of expands out um but for us it's sort of it is that thing of like okay well there's also this issue of like okay if it just goes too quickly and it's everywhere and then you know it's trying to get that that brand's recognition and and people knowing that it's here or knowing what it is and then you know they they they sort of see it through people that they're either word of mouth or people that they follow online the store supply so i think it's fascinating as a brand your size we talked about uh we talked about um innovation being bottom up versus top down.

24:58I also think it's fascinating that a brand your size with your kind of budgets coming to the UK still builds the brand bottom up, i.e. granted you've got the co-op and the Tesco's listing, but you're still finding those right indies, those right wholesalers that put you in the right spots. They may not be the volume spots, but they're the right brand building spots. What was your, what was your, and I'm going to be kind of touched on it there, but if we were to kind of zoom out so you meet mike he says i want you to to take this um this job or like we want you to build um liquid death in europe talk to me about the first time you met him and then we're going to get on to the strategy stuff but i'd love to understand that first interaction how that um so it it came actually through um a guy called steve nielsen uh otherwise known as sticks so sticks is sticks is uh is um heading this this is a time uh i think we're having conversations like he came onto my podcast so i've got an action sports podcast his background was in uh he was one of the first sports marketing managers in the u.s at red bull and then he went over to paps um paps beer and he he did like a kind of tenure at both companies uh all around lifestyle marketing and getting product out there so it was sort of a similar thing to liquid death he was one of the one of the early employees at liquid death where he was brought on um by mike to then go okay well how are we how are we going to grow this thing he he brought in a team of professional um like professional skateboarder snowboarder um a porn star someone in the in in the adult industry um someone like like legit proper rock stars who then had all these all these connections and i we were we were always in contact and i was just like let me know if anything when you guys are going to come over to europe and if there's anywhere i can help and then he just reached out and said okay well like we're looking for someone to basically essentially do what i'm doing over over in europe and we're going to need people in all these different markets and do you know anyone i was like yeah i mean i'd love to kind of put some ideas together and um then that was it kind of went on from from there where um we are like we were kind of looking at it going okay how do we sort of going back to what i was about taking what works in the u.s and replicating that so it's like how do we take it from sort of you know people knowing about it in la and miami and new york and all the kind of the major hubs in the u.s or now everywhere in the u.s right everyone knows about it and looking at london first and we launched during london london coffee fest and that was sort of for us kind of getting it in in different places and then the u.s guys came over um sort of end of may time as well and um they were uh like going around to not necessarily like exactly what you're saying it's not like the biggest places but it's getting it in those like core like cool cafes and and bars and restaurants and then building it out that way um so yeah it's kind of sticks was like let's let's try and just try and get it going over there and we'll start in the uk and then and then take it from there so this this term and i think i'd love to talk about your relationship with sticks as well um is is lifestyle marketing and red bull are just the best i think i think in my opinion there's no one who's done it better in terms of all the sponsorship of the extreme sports people the guy who jumped out the russian who jumped out the fucking thing from the space like that is just wild what is what is your definition of lifestyle marketing versus traditional marketing like what's the difference in the nuance do you think um so i mean i guess like the lifestyle marketing is kind of like getting it in getting your products or getting your brands uh in front of the right people and into the right places essentially uh for us at liquid def it's sort of it's credibly integrating the brands um for for no cost where other brands have to pay to get their way into and we do that through our network wait sorry sorry say that again so it's credibly integrating the brands um yeah where other brands have to pay to get their way in so for example if they're dropping big sponsorship money um on certain say i don't know instagrammers for example for people in the company and how they've grown that is that all these people that like that we've done things with we have a we're either friends with them or we have a connection so a lot of the people within like the big campaigns they're ambassadors and slash investors of of the brand of liquid death whether that's like you know tony hawk or steve-o or travis barker or whiz khalifa and you know the list goes on and on um they're all like the people that kind of are involved with liquid death have those kind of have that network and have those connections um so it's it's almost like i don't know like looking at like looking at it where we're not trying to kind of barge our way into things that we know nothing about if that makes sense so it kind of comes from these from these subcultures and then it sort of grows out from that yeah because i always find i think every challenger brand wants to be a lifestyle brand quote unquote but it's it's not as um there's there's a lot of nuance to it because i think you can i see some brands in the uk who just do an amazing atl campaign and they've got enough awareness and it drives enough um drives enough sales drives you know the team grows etc but to actually break it down it's like a lifestyle brand is i think it's almost that the the champions league of challenger brands is when you become a lifestyle brand i think i think trip is a great example of someone who in my opinion has done that um uh but it but it is it's a kind of that that sweet spot at the top so so you said so they had all these links to these you know travis barker these comedians etc in the uk are you are you trying to replicate that with other links so like would it be a comedian in the uk or how are you leveraging that knowledge that works in the us and bringing it across the yeah so everything i mean is kind of it's pretty it's pretty grassroots but for example like my my my background is in uh i've got a events and festivals platform called rad season and through that then came the rad season podcast um but i've like in past industries been involved with action sports been involved with events and festivals so it's kind of combining all those like past contacts so for example last year we were we were kind of backstage at every single major uh rock metal punk festival in the uk so you've got at one of these festivals liquid death is in the vip area it's it's on stage it's back of house because of because of those kind of connections and then it would be the same if you sort of see it popping up on podcasts potentially it's it's the same thing as well um so it's something that we like we don't have those budgets no matter what people think of like the energy drinks of the world where you know they can pay serious cash to to do to do things so we have to kind of be smart with it and go okay well how do we get our how do we get our brand out and how do we kind of do it in a way that one isn't pushing it down people's throats like we don't we don't put our logo onto anything but you see it at the parties and now it's almost 10 to this point where the can has become an accessory like so it's like a fashion accessory so if you go into like i don't an art exhibition opening you'll you'll see it at certain events or if you go into um and a fashion show or um backstage at a gig uh it it's sort of it's becoming something where you know like people will then reach out and go oh like can we get some liquid death there where if they were looking at another brand that didn't have that that appeal they'd be like oh we just want you to sponsor it we just want your money like it's 20 grand you know it's it's got to a point now because of all the epic work that they've done in the us and how they built up their their following it it's almost like a kudos like if if there's some association with liquid death then there's a huge benefit obviously over 7 million followers if if we're posting and resharing that there's a massive benefit to the people that we're involved with that that rather kind of wanky phrase that your distribution is your marketing and in terms of putting this through to how you'd be a lifestyle brand it's like if you then if you then are distributed in places where people like to talk about their lifestyle and the brand becomes an accessory i.e.

35:08an art gallery people will put on their instagram about their lifestyle oh i'm at the at this sick art gallery oh by the way i'm having a liquid death oh my lifestyle is uh at a festival they're going to post it on social oh here's my accessory so it's almost i like that link between yes distribution is your marketing but actually if you go further and you actually look into where people lifestyles playing then that's how you can kind of leverage a lifestyle brand and i think that's really helpful for people who don't have who may not necessarily have the budgets of i'm not saying you've got huge budgets but like who are just starting out like you can still you can still run that um i think moju did a very good job of that you know moju who are in um there with stores as well who are great yeah in terms of um so so what else has mike kind of taught you about this uh sort of creative audacious leadership uh style like because i know we've talked about innovation coming from the bottom up but also i'd love to see how it works from the top down that makes sense if or if it's a top down structure structure then how it's structured liquid death um sure so i mean in in terms of sort of what the focus is and like the last couple of years has has been it has been building it up so um it's now kind of looking at like on on the lifestyle marketing side of things like what what do we focus on what are the areas um comedy is absolutely huge for us so that's something which is then like top down it's like okay how we how are we going to make our friends laugh when we produce campaigns and how are we going to break the internet and it's sort of looking at it and going like we're not like worried about what other brands are doing like it's more it's more people's attention spans when we produce content and when we put it out so are people going to share it are they going to engage uh firstly will they find it funny enough to then do that you know then it kind of get it gets pushed out so it's like doing that and and sort of doing that well and repeating it you know it's hard enough doing it you know as you know right like kind of doing it once or twice let alone sort of constantly doing it so it's looking at that and going okay how do we how do we own comedy how do we kind of how can it be a brand where like uh it it's turning from from uh this a product was like when it started off it's like it's a water brand it's a soft drinks it's a soft drinks company it's a healthy food brand now going to it's a healthy products slash entertainment company like a rebel has rebel media house for entertainment it's kind of like you know you kind of look at these things and going okay well if we produce something people will wait and go okay well what are they what's coming up next you know it's like that that sort of shock kind of value of like what are they going to produce what's coming out um and if people get liquid death and they find it funny then you know it's like it's pretty it's pretty clear that they'll sort of wait around and go okay when they do something again it's gonna they're kind of expecting sort of that that level of humor and that level of entertainment instead of kind of pushing a certain kind of product down people's throats it was always sort of looking at like products that are unhealthy for you i guess initially would have we'll get to have all the fun so that was something that mike would say is just like well why is that like why why is sort of you know whether it's like the the pizza companies of the world or or sweets candies what why are they getting to have all the fun with advertising and it's sort of you look at like the water market something that is the most like impactful and healthy thing for you in water but it was like generally kind of stale sort of marketing campaigns and there was definitely a gap for that which Mike saw and go okay let's try and let's try and build something around around this and and water was was one of them the uh what you said about doing it consistently like making people laugh or make the content go viral i think the um i don't know what the one of the guy with the thing going like that basically i don't know how to best describe it but that was absolutely jokes the uh i'm trying to find what's called how fast can you blast like that was hilarious and for anyone who hasn't seen that go and watch it because it's it gives hope that brands can still be very boisterous and rambunctious and cheeky um i saw a picture on on liquid deaths instagram which i thought was uh was really interesting is you know the the old adage of apple which is think different and you've got the the apple and it's the the rainbow colors there was a uh a picture and it said drink different it's liquid death skull and it's the same colors and it said something about this is this is our operating system and the quotes sods or it's not coming up on my notes here um but i thought that was really fascinating i'd love to know what this liquid death specific operating system is on the foundational level that when like on the surface allows you to do these sick things consistently because i think in those foundations or pillars i think there's a lot to kind of pull in and tease out there yeah so i guess to quote like andy pearson who so and andy's the head of creative is creative director at liquid death i mean he sort of has said something like that he gets asked this quite a lot and the it's almost like liquid death is a it's like a character so it's evolving and it's something that you kind of you don't really know what what's going to happen next you know that like it's sort of we look at it and it's not like okay well we're going to bring up this campaign in sort of 12 months time things evolve and change quite quickly and it's sort of looking at something okay okay we can do this this is funny let's get this out and then obviously we have we're in conversations with multiple people about you know what who we bring in and what we do um so yeah it's kind of looking at looking at the brand looking at liquid def as sort of it has these these core kind of pillars of like the name for example it's like it's liquid death death to plastic murder first so there there's a sustainability um message for us is sort of like okay well one like trying to get people to drink more water um but also the the issue with plastic pollution and we put a portion of of money and profits back in to like helping reduce plastic in the world's oceans and lakes and seas so um making sure that you know the cans are they're 100 recyclable and that that's a big part of it as well so death to plastic reducing plastic um and you know you just have to kind of go into any shop or store and you kind of you see all just the plastic bottle the single-use plastic bottles so it's like okay how can we kind of improve that situation um and uh that's sort of i guess this the sustainability sort of messaging whereas the the high sort of level is okay it's comedy it's humor it's entertainment yeah it's it's it's fascinating understanding how yeah the the two to align i I even think the name just Liquid Death.

43:11I think some of the best brand names are kind of juxtapositions. I read a, I know Liquid Death's not the obvious example, but Rude Health or Lucky Saint, there's something in juxtaposition of brand names. And I think what you've said there about the, you've got two opposing things. This is David, I think it was John Hegarty, the marketing, the guy did Sarchin Sarchin, he wrote a post on LinkedIn the other day about, he got asked the questions, is how do you make black more black as in the color black more black and he talked about uh putting white against it and using a zebra to like the zebra was the picture it brought out the black more and i think there's something in um when you have as a brand you have two opposing things that create this kind of friction and energy lucky saint have it as well like i spoke to luke about um the word lucky and getting lucky their values are getting lucky be lucky but they've also got saint which is devil in the detail uh this will yeah fastidious attention to detail but these two things align and this magic happens same with thing with rude health we take ourselves seriously but not our take our product seriously but not ourselves too seriously i think it's super yeah just understanding how how the operating system works um how many people have you got in the uk like and what's what's what's the split between uk and uh and us how big yeah so um it's still pretty small in the uk and that's sort of something that we yeah um as it grows over here we we would then expand out on it um but the majority is you can imagine like our office is um our head office is over in la and then our our headquarters here for europe are in london and how do you find leading the team from lisbon versus london because i think i know for a fact i've got loads of mates who are founders who would love to be able to there's almost like a fear in in their soul that if they leave not they leave the team to it they just they want to be so close to their baby that they they can't have that space like what's that describe that experience for you living in lisbon but building a brand in the uk uh it's it's like i mean it's it's manageable it's very manageable i mean i'm i'm i can be in the city from from here from home um for meetings at 11 a.m for example so i can get what if you get flights the first flight is at like 6 15 from lisbon so i can get into town pretty pretty quickly um and i'm regularly over so and also i guess being here being based here uh as it then expands out into different as we go global it's you know um i'm everywhere so um it's like if we look like for example we're in we're in the czech republic uh we're in um we're in scandinavia uh markets over there so it's kind of you know you like one of the main reasons why i moved here is it is 20 minutes from the airport so i can pretty much i can get i can get places fairly fairly quickly but I understand what you're saying with that of the whole working remote thing and being away from your team from the office.

46:31We're in contact daily, I'd say, either if it's via Slack or Messenger and it's kind of having that sort of – and it's remote in the US as well. So it's having that autonomy where you know you're going to get the right people in who are going to do who are going to get the job done whether whether it's marketing whether it's sales whether it's operations finance whatever it may be it's like they're gonna they're gonna do it and if they're somewhere where whatever it is they're into then they're going to be happier about where they are therefore they work harder if that makes sense who gives a crap have a completely remote culture as well i think it's really interesting um um, Simon was like to me, he goes, he goes, mate, if I'm, if the surf's good, like the team, no, no fucking zoom calls.

47:27And I just thought that was such a sick way of saying it. It was like, don't like, we need to work hard. He talks about life, life, work balance. It does sound a bit, instead of work, life balance, life, work balance does sound a bit David Brent, but it was like, I thought it was a really interesting point of like, actually, yeah, if your life and your work, if you can get that blend of sweet swap between work and play, like your team are just going to work harder. I'd love to know what have been the challenges in terms of co-op and Tesco or just grocery in general in terms of I totally get the early adopters.

48:04I get the skate parks, the cool bars in London, people lapping it up, London Coffee Festival. then trying to grow liquid death in Darlington, Rotherham, uh, Middlesbrough, like Liverpool, like maybe not Liverpool, like other towns where there aren't the early adopters. Like how are you navigating that? So, yeah, I mean, I'd say there are like, I mean, I'm kind of, I'm like dotted around, like say for example, like Liverpool, like, so I've done trips, and sort of the focus is kind of working on like going to all of these places and going okay like who are who are those early adopters in like little massive music scene huge uni um some cool like bars skate shops tattoo shops like coffee shops record stores that all that thing every single city every single place has like especially in the uk if it's or if it's a certain size has that so it's just then go like if we we either we know people we know people there or we get introduced friends of friends whatever it may be and then it's getting into those right places first and then it just expands out into that so that would be the same whether it's dublin or prague or um and i'm off to denmark um tomorrow um to copenhagen so it's it's it's that kind of is that gonna going okay well we know what works in the us we pretty much know what work like when we went into the into london into the uk what like that would then it's very replicable especially from those scenes so it's like where where are those cool dive bars where is that street with all the vintage stores on so what that's yeah and then essentially so say you're looking at the uk as a whole you're almost having five hubs so maybe the way i phrased that first question was was potentially wrong instead of not i know there's kind of the early adopters in also from yeah so from the locations you mean so like yeah so as in like as in like so so you have the uk and you have you have like a hub in london hub in bristol hub in birmingham manchester yeah edinburgh for example yeah exactly so you've got these hubs i think this is fascinating for brands you then go to these hubs and find the early adopters whether that's the cafe shops or skate shops but then how do you that will do a lot to drive your rate of sale nationally but then how how are you trying to target say say the someone so someone said this to me from unilever is like where brands as should as much as they should be finding the early adopters they need they need to think how can they drive the rate of sale uh at a tesco or a sainsbury tesco extra sainsbury's extra if that's what they're called big sainsbury's whatever the fuck is at uh in between two two kind of satellite towns like oh you know what i mean like almost how are you kind of navigating that because i get the early adopters bit but it's the other part of the equation um so i'd say i mean we're kind of like on on on that side we're kind of looking at like say flagship events as well so festivals for us like live nation they're an investor slash partner in in liquid death um when we launched in the uk we went into i think 19 of their music festivals so this year for example we're like the presenting partner for download um which is in donington and perfect fit for liquid death it's kind of the biggest rock alternative metal festival in the uk um we kind of look at these like festivals with the or festivals or big events where it's not necessarily going to be it's people coming from all over the country essentially if they're into that particular like style of music or sport then comedy show like whatever it may be it's then kind of that draws in the people and then they see it there and it's sort of it's that kind of experience of people having a good time having liquid death in their hands resonates with them and and then they sort of turn into turn into buyers in terms of the liquid death thing what was kind of uh get onto your podcast in a sec and as i think i'm listening to a few episodes and i thought that was uh is it stacy the guy who did Dogtown Z Stacey Peralta yeah I listened to that I thought it was a sick sick conversation I actually learnt a lot but I'd love to kind of to bridge bridge these two kind of separate things is what do you think the unfair advantage people in liquid death what are the brand building lessons from extreme sports that you can apply to brand building that brands who aren't surfers who aren't skaters who aren't going out surfing three times a week like what's the unique thing you get as a team as a business that other brands don't get like what's the secret kind of thing um i mean from an action sports perspective or just anything doing anything hard from the action sports perspective yeah yeah i mean that would be like skateboarding surfing i guess in terms of skating if you're trying to do anything if you're trying to learn a new trick you're constantly falling you're constantly failing and then you're getting up and you're attempting to do it again until you complete it so the the link between i guess sort of people that are skaters or people that are involved with action sports whatever that may be it's having that kind of grit of not giving up and that is something that is almost ingrained in you because it's just kind of what you do so that there's definitely a strong correlation like starting my own company to to being involved with this it is definitely helped yeah i i find it so fascinating it's the grit to keep keep going back again and problem solving that's vital in brand building the other thing is we very few touched about it in the introduction but it's like wiping out and actually every part of the failure piece is every brand says oh yeah failure i think what i haven't actually talked about the podcast before is how to stay calm when you're wiping out or things are going pete tong like maybe we could talk about wipeouts when you surf like i've watched quite a lot of this um i know shane dorian's talked about the big wave surfer and rogan's talked about this suit thing you've got yeah but like what's what's when you when you get wiped out and you're pulled under and you're you're rolling for like two minutes what what's what does that feel like describe that feeling and then and then how are you staying calm what are you doing in your brain because i think that will help a lot of people who say today they're having a fucking shit day like there could be a lot in terms of staying calm um for me personally i always think that like i've been in worse situations situations so i kind of like i try to be a worse situation well i try and think like okay well like i've been like either the waves have been bigger or i've caught my like leg rope around a rock or it might be sharky um there's definitely yeah there's definitely been situations where like so like yesterday it was kind of i was out surfing yesterday afternoon when i got back and it was fun it was pretty big um big there's a big set came you know you take one on the head you get pushed under and you kind of like when you're under like so your body kind of goes into like i think you kind of go into that mode where you panic and like you're just thinking in in your head and you go like okay now just like stop take a bit of time and just think like it's been bigger it's been gnarlier, like you've got through it, it will be okay.

56:26And at that time where I think everything kind of hyper-focuses too. So if you're like taking off on a big wave or you're dropping off a cliff on a snowboard or hitting a jump on a mountain bike, you get really, really focused and everything that doesn't matter, you drop it. you don't think you're not thinking about like what call you've got coming up or what meeting you have thinking about how you're going to like survive that split second so you then go okay like you know when you're underwater you've you have to relax because if you start panicking you're going to run out of air faster so when they do the big wave training there'll be like for nasa for example or for jaws in hawaii like these are like the top top top like one percent of the one percent surfers like no one else can do this like it's really like it's pretty unique but when they're training how many surfers do you reckon sorry to interrupt i'm just so fascinated by this how many surfers in the world do you reckon could surf nasrae um i i it depends i mean if it's paddling not many if it's towing in more but then it's like yeah it's i really i really don't know probably it's probably like it's definitely not in the thousands it's definitely in the hundreds and it's sort of it's a unique thing of like people that actually then want to go and do that when it's that big and that's a you know that's unique in itself like millions of people surf but a lot of them and they will like appreciate asro but a lot of them they won't want to go out there um even if they get the opportunity yeah oh god no that's when i'm when i get over to lis well i may miss the boat quite literally miss miss the surf if i'm going over in may but i really want to see it because it just looks sick but sorry so you were saying i swear i interrupted but you were saying these guys get they get trained um and we were talking about staying calm and not panicking under pressure because that's a universal principle for anyone building a brand yeah so i'd say like with with the training with that i mean they're in the pool and they're doing they're doing like breath work essentially like underwater staying underwater getting rolled so and then it's sort of knowing that their equipment is up to scratch so in putting that in like the business context it's sort of yeah doing doing training making sure you're kind of you you're doing your research before you then like a prospecting for you prospecting before you do your course like things like that um i that's would how how it would correlate i mean it's kind of it's doing your homework and then putting it into practice basically and staying calm and staying calm you said oh when i'm under like when i was under yesterday i always think this could have been worse like what has been the what's been the most like oh my fucking god i could die moment for you like underwater and like how long were you under um yeah there's been a few uh probably i was in taiwan like years ago maybe like nine years ago and uh like uh i got i came off a wave and i got and it was rocky and my leg rope like my leash got wrapped around the rocks um and yeah i was basically like and then three set waves came and i couldn't i couldn't reach my ankle to undo my leg rope and i was getting held under because you were getting pulled down so much because i was getting pulled down and pushed away from the rock and then eventually i got to it and i had like my head was under and i was like waving at my wife and she was like just like yeah like waving back just thinking like i was like trying to like call for help um that was pretty freaky and then i've had like i don't know i've had some um some boat accidents and stuff like that in the surf in central america and places and accidents yeah like um like we were out once on on a boat and like a set wave came and the guy that was driving when you say set when you say set wave sorry for interrupt i don't know yeah it's basically like um like a series of waves came so it's like three three waves like one after another yeah so so they came along and the guy was like one of these like open wooden open boats with like little benches and um yeah he he didn't see any sort of last minute and he kind of he just hit the hit the engine and the gas and the boat just took off just flew out of the air and this thing was about maybe 25 foot long and it just went vertical 25 foot and i was at the front and i just fell fell from the top of it so it wasn't necessarily surfing but i mean it was a surf trip like we were looking for waves um so there's just sketchy things that can happen now i guess by one that's kind of like like if you're doing any of these like like sports it's a little bit it's risk-taking but also you know anything can happen if you're traveling or like crossing the road or doing anything right so it's sort of like you just yeah you never really know 100 what is you don't know what's going to happen it's kind of just but this is this is so what you've just said there we you don't know what's going to happen so just roll with it i think that is kind of succinctly summed up what it means to be creative and audacious in marketing as much as it is to be creative and audacious in riding waves you don't know what's going to happen just roll with it and i think what you've done with uh liquid death or what everyone's doing is that kind of we can move quick like we don't know what's going to happen just roll with it and i think that's that's a delicious insight for people who are starting brands let's talk about your podcast and you said at the beginning you had a stutter and um that was kind of the reason for we had a stutter as a kid and uh you know and then you struggle with that and then you started this podcast how did you go about i always find this fascinating i do it as well as how you go and get guests like how did you go about getting wim hoff how do you uh because chip connelly i've listened to him on tim ferris before he's just unreal like how did you go about getting those amazing guests um mainly just like i email them so i just i just drop them an email out the blue and sort of yeah keep it short and to the point and um a lot of it sort of i guess after the first couple then it it just comes with like knowing that they're like the people that you've had on before are friends with them um the wim hof one came because the podcast turned into a tv show so i pitched him first initially i was like do you want to come on my podcast and i think his daughter or something who manages him just got back to me it's just like how how many how big is the audience i was like oh it's not that big it's getting bigger and then i did i just heard no reply and then three months later the the the podcast turned into a video like a tv series on fuel tv which is like an action sports channel um so then the it definitely grew quite a lot so it kind of jumped up from you know like a good couple of thousand per episode up to like whatever it was like 50 000 plus um per episode um just from more more like just from being on on the tv series and then i was like vim do you want to do you want to come on now they came back to me within like a day they're like yeah yeah we can we can organize that um so i think it just it just depends and like the stuff with like the stacy peralta episodes like that was filmed for an event that they did for his movie which patagonia set up the brand um and it was part of he directed a movie about jerry lopez's life so jerry lopez like like one of the most famous iconic hawaiian surfers of all time mr i was watching that last night mate i was watching that literally watching the first 10 minutes of that last night because i was like i loved yeah yeah i literally don't realize that was directed by him i was literally watching that last night yeah yeah so he he kind of directed that out after like he did a movie called riding giants and obviously like dog town and sea boys and he's done a few others but stacy's like one of the like one of the icons of action sports specifically within skateboarding but then also like film directing for that genre and he was like one of the first to kind of do it um so yeah having like speaking to those two is just it was unreal but that was all like again that was like part of something and one thing i've kind of found from the podcast is sort of it definitely opened up different doors so whether it was like commentated turned into like commentating on surfing events through to like hosting conferences as it's just all this weird stuff that i would have like 100 never have done beforehand like i'd just be too nervous or like worried to do it and yeah and then kind of you know turned into working with liquid death and it's definitely it's been it's been fun are you looking at to turbocharge your brand take it to another level save money save energy save stress save time well i've got the perfect thing for you i am delighted to announce that hc brands formerly hc consulting my boy harry clark has just launched a commercial growth accelerator program designed specifically for challenge food and drink brands and you can upskill your commercial team they've got so many modules you can hand pick them we can do the full shebang you're going to save hours of research you're going to get the tools to turbocharge your growth get better clarity on your brand's objectives and directions and look harry's worked with some amazing brands holy moly islands savile and rooted drinks he's really helped me with a strategy for hungry yeah if you're looking to turbocharge your brand link in the show notes and you're going to be able to do that easy peasy lemon squeezy there's a there's a guy i follow which is uh which is if if you just post once a week which is what i'm this that's the cadence i'm on now like it's the passport i think he talks about youtube it's like it's the passport to extraordinary and it's like it's the same with with hungry it's as i'm like some of the people even speaking to you today i'm like this is sick like doesn't wouldn't you know you get to speak to so many interesting people um in terms of how did you prep for the um because again like i think there's there's lessons in this in terms of prepping for sainsbury's meeting and tesco meeting like you can either over prep like i've had before i've done way too much prep and the conversation feels very robotic but i've also had it when you don't do enough prep at all it's like where's it going like what's how what's your prep process if it was it depends i think sometimes it's kind of after doing i don't know i think like over a hundred i've done over a hundred podcasts and you know way way more interviews so i think it's kind of like at the beginning i'd always over prep because same i was like i don't know you just but then it's kind of it it was definitely like it's less fun because you know what they're going to say so you're almost kind of like you you you ask them something and you know you've got an idea what the guest is going to reply yeah that's not and then it's not as like like you said it's robotic it's not as natural so now i think it's like if you could do a bit like maybe i'd listen to one podcast about the guests especially if it's sort of like my is almost like a diary of the diary of cio but for action sports people so or for founders of action sports companies so kind of knowing too much you know you obviously know a little bit about them and if you kind of if you know everything then it kind of yeah it's it comes across a bit strange maybe so yeah i do like a little bit maybe like you know an hour or two depending on who it is um and then that that would be it have like a like a real rough guide of what i'm going to talk about but it's almost like it is past present it's like dropping in it's like catching a wave i i find is is before like when i started i was trying to plot every single point whereas now i'm just i have a little bit of prep it's like almost that's that's the that's the uh jet ski pulling me into pulling me into the wave and then once i'm in it's just like let's let's see where it goes and you just go with the flow with it yeah yeah like i had i had one and like i asked the guy how he's doing and he just said he had a car crash the day before and i was just like okay well then like you're the whole everything just goes out the window when so when they say something like that and he was like super vulnerable would talk about anything and you kind of it's almost like you just have an open chat and i think sometimes i've kind of been like trying i'm trying to be too scripted because i wanted to get certain elements out of it like i could then like drop it for quotes and i was just like yeah i can use this and i can do that and i think it's just trying to kind of go go with the flow and then also like thinking okay well what if I find it interesting then the audience would too hopefully yes and then you kind of like build that trust with the audience and then yeah yeah there's a quote I love by Rick Rubin which is the audience comes last which I a bit like what we said with liquid death if if I I ask questions that I want to ask because I like I follow my curiosity and I think if I like it someone else would like it if Ollie likes this question someone else like it same thing with liquid death if we like this marketing it makes us laugh it's going to make someone else laugh as well what if you could thread the theme this is quite a hard question but if you could thread the like a needle through all these wildly these wildly interesting extreme sports guests um is there like a common trait between the hundred or so you've interviewed that has been responsible for their success um i think they've like probably probably dedication is one of the main things I'd say passion, but then there's levels of that.

1:10:40And I think putting in the time, everyone always sees these things of like, okay, yeah, some of them have got more natural talent than others. But whether it's the case of Stacey creating these movies, it's not just like he did one or the one gets the Grammys and it's like you know it's like a 30-year build-up of all these different like skate videos that he's produced that then the mainstream may not know about that existed beforehand you know so it's like it's being it's putting in the hours putting in the time and working really really hard on it um and you know now it's kind of like with all these athletes are like they're in the gym they're eating right you know they're not pounding energy drinks like it's it's um they're like they're athletes they're not like you know kind of especially the ones who are then trying to push it to say to that olympic level or the contest kind of surfers or skaters maybe it's a little bit different for some of the more kind of um the ones that uh you know if if it's kind of more lifestyle based but even that like if anyone kind of wants to be the top of the game you've got train you've got prep and you can have all the talent in the world but if you don't do that it's not going to materialize is there anything else that you could if you had to thread a needle through other than dedication um for all of them um uh i don't know let's try to it's tricky um yeah it's i'm i'm always asking the question myself through every food and drink founder i've asked it's hard that's why i said it is a hard question but it's uh that dedication is a hundred percent one of those things i also think it's like uh yeah it's it's everything that sprawls off the dedication so it's not giving in to know it's the the discipline yeah um what's what what out of all the conversations you've done um what's been like one conversation that really kind of hit you so palpably here like you're like wow maybe it was the guy who had the car crash but who really kind of taught you a sentence of wisdom or something that really kind of changed your your world view um yeah that's that's tricky too there's been a few i mean i've had like um and the guests have been quite it's quite varied and quite varied in in age um chip said something cool like chip chip connelly he just said like always always be curious and i like that that was something that kind of stuck um because his background and how he came on the podcast is he used to have a events and festivals platform he sold it um but kind of i think it was sort of during the time he was advising for airbnb at that time but it was kind of after he had his hotel chain and and he just said that you know he's he's kind of it's completely different to what he was doing he just basically wanted to go to all these like weird crazy festivals and that's what i love doing so he would go to like baby jumping festival in spain where they kind of jump over babies or tormentina festival or holy in india and he'd kind of go to all these weird things and just because he was just curious about it and he wanted to learn something new or if it was like learning he learned how to surf when he was in his 50s i think and then you know he learned spanish learned uh tried to learn spanish late um so learning it like a second language and like having always having that curiosity of something new i think when i was younger like for me personally i was younger i was always like i was just so stuck in i was like i'm just gonna surf just gonna do that and that kind of dictated everything which is kind of what i wanted then and then i got a little bit older i thought okay well like that's what about other sports other things to do or other like different ways of thinking and that whole or like being curious and kind of being open-minded had um was something that i kind of i took away i think those i think we've we've both got to that answer in terms of what what's the common thread i would say it's absolutely dedication but it's also absolute curiosity because i think curiosity is the birthplace of creates creativity creativity is the way around problems um how did you get into surfing if you're from wimbledon like how did you that's what i want to know like it's so i used to so i grew up kind of skating at south bank um okay like on weekends as a kid and um yeah and then from from that uh i used to go down to cornwall like i was i was working in farringdon and i kind of leave like on friday and like drive down with friends and go surfing down in yuki or go to croyd in devon um yeah and kind of started off bodyboarding um in spain as a kid my dad's been living over there for like 35 years so go and like stay with him and um yeah we'd kind of kind of go in in the sea there and then that then point break came out and everything changed that was kind of like an absolutely massive movie at the time with uh patrick swayze and keanu reeves they made a new version of it but it's not the same um but the original was absolutely amazing and i think it was probably like my favorite film when i was about 12 13 and um yeah that was definitely a game changer and sort of wanting to learn how to surf and then just became obsessed with it went over to costa rica for about when i first went there i went there for like three and a half months and just with the main aim of just i'm just gonna like i'm gonna learn this somehow even if it kind of breaks me i'm go i'm just gonna keep on doing it and it was just like again and again and again like six hours every day in the water um for about three months and so what was that was that in port of were you there in port vieja i can't my spanish um i was in like yeah like dominical santa reza um tamarindo a little bit uh and then a little bit on yeah puerto viaco as well uh but then also i kind of went into like el salvador and guatemala and a bunch of uh a few of the other kind of neighboring countries around in costa rica and yeah i got the bugger ever kind of after that and then that was that was it and when you surf now are you trying to get better or like are you just trying now you've got kids and a wife and stuff like what's your mindset when you surf now is it i just kind of it's just like almost like going going for a jog i just kind of do it more for like mental kind of like just to to yeah like like mental productivity you can say like kind of get out and just get get a bit of um bit of me time like between sort of say working with families can kind of just get out and it's just it's just quiet um yeah and now it's kind of i don't know i'm doing i'm doing a little bit more like mountain biking and like trail running and things like that um Sometimes you get in the sea and it can be pretty crowded and you're like, oh.

1:18:13Yeah, fuck this. It can be more stressed. Yeah. What time do you usually go then? Is it like before work or is it like a... Normally before, yeah. So it's normally like first thing in the morning or like I do the drop off. So like after I've dropped my kid off, I've got to... I want to talk about strange festivals. That's the name of your... Have I got that name right? for the the because you set up the the events company there's all it finds these weird and yeah so rad rad season is the is the company that's okay sorry right so so where did your if we can like trace it back where did this fascination obsession with the the weird come from so i've got a bit of connection with spain so i've been going to spain ever since i was like a baby basically every year and there's so much crazy shit like religious weird quirky festivals that happen in Spain um I just found it really intriguing and I was like okay that's that's pretty interesting and then when when I'm I was on my honeymoon about eight and a half years ago um going through central america and i was like trying to find events and trying to find these weird things happening and there weren't like there was no like kind of like at that time it was like lonely planet guidebooks or even if you go online you can't really find much it'd be like day of the dead in mexico city or think of their maya things like that but there was no like one place where that had them all in so when i got back to australia where i was living i thought okay i'll try and add all the events that i found fun and then i kind of put them like into into the sheet we hired a developer and then that was kind of like you know the company was kind of born from that idea of like okay well where's all the like fun quirky crazy festivals in the world along with action sports events and music festivals anything that i think i can't like what's a bucket list event or festival that i want to go to and i'd go on youtube research it if i I saw a video and if that made me excited, I'd add it to the site.

1:20:28So it wasn't necessarily about, okay, is this going to get the most eyeballs, the most traffic looking back? That was probably should have been the main thing to look at. But I was like, Oh, is this, is this fun? Does this look cool? Let's put it on the website and then let's try and go there. So then when my kid was two, um, we left, uh, we emigrated back to Europe with the plan to move to Portugal. uh and in between leaving australia we had about three months i think we went about to about 25 festivals maybe just over which was like on paper as i saw this is a dream but with a two-year-old it was it was pretty tricky but some of them we kind of just go into these like you know there's this festival in the north of spain called um the um batalla de vino which means like the wine battle in harrow in rioja in the wine region and they basically had like 30 000 people go in a vineyard and they have a a wine fight with super soakers so they just like fill this fill up these like these water like water pistols and everyone's just like running around and the farmers have got these like um almost like those fertilizer guns like these heavy and they're just like literally like with hoses just spraying everybody um so that kind of stuff is sort of like it's so unique and it's so like not in your day-to-day that it was just it really appealed um and then when you start digging you're like oh there's like world bog snorkeling championships in wales or there's like cheese rolling in gloucestershire which is like they're just mental these things this it closes this loop like this quite interestingly because i think a few things what you've said there mate in terms of one the audience comes last that rick groban quote so you could have put these bigger festivals on on but i think by following your curiosity you create something unique same thing with liquid death um and then also what you're essentially doing like this super soaker ryoka battle is essentially like a little mini cult so you're infiltrating these little mini cults or like the bog bog festival um bog snorkeling festival but then to our point about small brands focus um sponsoring these events i I think Rude Health sponsor that.

1:22:45They do. Yeah, they do. So it's like small brands don't have to go and sponsor download festival to get that brand awareness. You can go do these little things. What else were some of the weirdest? We'll wrap this up shortly. Just a few more things, mate, because I'm really loving this. What are some of the other weird festivals you saw? What was the most, like you went there and you came home, you were speaking to your kid or your wife and you were like, that was wild. um a lot of them revolve around food or religion so there's one in there's another one in spain um called haram plus which is in like extremadura it's kind of like uh like on the west coast of spain um inland and a guy dresses up as a monster in this like iron iron suit and it's like paper mache and he's like supposed to represent the devil and he runs through the town and they drop off all these like turnips and they they're frozen so it's so cold that they just freeze uh it's in the middle of winter and he runs into the crowd and everyone's just lobbing turnips at this at this guy in this suit at this like monster devil thing um you're thinking like oh you rock up to this town and then maybe like 10 people doing it you go there and there's like 10 000 people like throwing turnips at this guy and he's just like running through these like tiny little alleyways in this like medieval village in western spain you're like what is what is going on yeah it's absolutely wild um so that was probably that's probably one um on more of a like something that less painful would be like songaran in bangkok in thailand um which is a like a water festival again it's like just a massive water fight but the whole city kind of does it so you've got like a million people running around with like super soakers and what pistols so jokes um yeah so all those kind of things like like they're they're super fun and they're so unique to that area it's like tricky to then replicate it uh i think like i'd love to go to like holy in india i think like you know like color run and stuff so it's like um they just like throw like cut all this like colored powder um at you but this is literally like just millions and millions of people so it's almost like how i don't know if you've ever seen like color run for example when it's like a 5k run and they're kind of like giving you some like powder and you wear a white t-shirt it's like that but on on steroids right so it's like millions millions of people in a city um there's one in the south of spain near granada called casca moros and everyone gets covered in like um black like kind of like black oil so like and again it's like thousands and thousands of people do this and they chase this guy who's known as the casa moros and the story is that he's like historically this guy stole a virgin a statue of virgin mary as a bet from one village and he had to take it the neighboring village he had to take it back to his and all these people would chase him and that's kind of like you chase this guy and he's kind of got this like flag and he's like waving it but it starts off at the top of this like sort of big hill like smallish mountain and everyone's just covering themselves in this like black oil hilarious and then it just ends up with a huge party at the end but there's like 30 000 people like and everyone's yeah just covered it all it's crazy there's there's just there's definitely a um a i love that those those festivals you've been to is kind of like an interesting lens to explore human nature in that i think humans have this idea like to escape the mundane and also to like have connection with other people there's like there's there's two things and i think they're actually applicable to brand building as well because it's like how can your brand like liquid death like the face thing whatever it was can you have those moments of like escapism from reality but then also connection what would you say from going to all these festivals from infiltrating these cults i feel like you're almost like the the bourdain of uh weird festivals that sounds sick um like what would you say some of those lessons um you that you took from all these fucking weird festivals that you applied to liquid death in terms of as you say you're the head of cult indoctrination now uh i think it's it is that it's that community in that experience and you're bound by in in the case of the festivals you're bound by that weird experience because everyone's in it together it's almost like if you go to a tomorrow land or you know you go to a different festival you're you're taken out of your normal kind of day-to-day and you're plonked in this weird situation and you go okay well i'm gonna i'm here i'm either here on my own or i'm with my family or with or i'm with friends or with complete strangers you all have that kind of like bonding moment so it's something like that that then you're like oh i'm not the only one that is into this there's a hundred thousand other people that love it as well or there's you know a hundred whatever it may be it's kind of you've got that connection and i think that's something that you know you feel like especially when you kind of like look at things like different music genres and things like oh like you know i always feel like i'm a little bit of an outsider or i'm not really in you know i'm a bit extroverted wherever it may be and then you go to these places and you're like oh man there's like all these people that are into it as well it's pretty cool what kind of music would that be so i'd say something like well you know like for example if it was sort of like a download like a rock like some of those rocks something that wouldn't be like kind of it's not super mainstream and yeah you get there and it's like absolutely heaving so i think for me it was kind of it was always like it was like punk punk rock growing up wasn't that it wasn't that popular in the uk um and that was sort of something that you know i go to gigs in like in london at different like in different venues and then you it would do it would be heaving and then you just like realize like coming from like especially outside if you weren't like kind of in the hub where all the bars are so sort of like late late teens that kind of thing um and that was kind of it's that kind of appeal of like okay these are these are my people this is like this is my crew and that's what liquid air feels like as well that's wild and then yeah because i i think the uh that why i love festivals and i haven't been to well i think the last where i went to but i remember i used to religiously go to festival when i was like 20 20 to like 24 and it's almost as you say it's that connection but then you you can almost view reality with like a slight twist do you mean like you're still like you're still surrounded by people but there'll be like some i think the thing i saw at glasmery last year is like that shell um shop or something like that it's just something you recognize you have the semiotics of the shell garage but they've just completely usurped it and i think there's something in that um in that for brand building um final question mate um and i'd love to know kind of i ask this to all guests but i think with your lifestyle lens it could be really interesting but what would you say in one sentence is a brand it's a hard question don't get me wrong i've asked it to loads of guests and it's hard um i guess a brand is something that people people resonate with so um it's yeah it goes like it's not a name it's not product it's not service it's like what what is that fit what how does it make you feel what is that feeling and and how do you how do you kind of connect with it um whether it's a whether it's a company or whether it's a you know and how how do you completely agree and then just to go into that a little bit further like it what i love what you said there it's not a business it's not a service it's it's a thing to connect to at liquid death with everything we've discussed today the festivals the surfing the how are you as a team like driving that connection you know we've talked about we've talked about the distribution in the right stores we've talked about going to tesco we've talked about the us but like how are you driving that connection uh so from purely from the lifestyle perspective it's like what are for us for for myself and my team it's kind of looking at going the like the core values and the core dna of of the brands like what what is that and i've sort of dissected it into i guess music comedy art street culture they're kind of like the pillars of of like the culture like the the subgroups and the cultures that we like appeal to or we are part of so that's kind of how how i would say like it's sort of how we're kind of managing or how we're looking looking at it in a liquid death and then obviously it kind of gets subsected all those things you know you can kind of um there's a lot of different a different crews different cultures different communities that are all part of those things it's um there's a guy who actually they sponsor our podcast called perry hayden taylor who did loads of the brands like he did Tyrell's Charlie Bigham's branding um but he has got a quote that I love which is like your vibe attracts your tribe which but also your your tribe can tell you what the vibe is I think if you if what you you're almost reverse engineering it you're saying right when you go to all these festivals what are they telling us and then building it that way which I think is um it's fascinating but Ollie mate it's been um an absolute pleasure it's been a perfect way to spend a monday morning mate and i i loved just hearing the the way you're building the brand which is ultimately in the uk at least or in europe at least is is is bottom up is uh you know finding these early adopters and uh but then also linking it to this idea that humans no matter where they are need community and they need some sort of escapism and you can get that through kind of dedication and curiosity um so mate thank you so so much thanks man thanks having me on thank you so so much listening to the podcast i really really do appreciate it if you liked that episode only if you liked it please do give it five stars subscribe tell all your friends families foes next door but one cat dog whatever please tell everyone about this podcast it means the world to me and i really want to understand what your pain points are as the new wave of challenger food and drink brands please do hit me up on linkedin search dan pope and hopefully we can together create a more meaningful and powerful podcast for the next wave of challenger food and drink brands thank you so much