Soho House Founder: The Biggest Mistakes All Businesses Make (And How To Fix Them)

0:00It's risky enough opening a restaurant, bar, hotel in your own backyard. But if you're doing that in numerous cities around the world, you have to make bold decisions to go ahead with it. That's Nick Jones, the founder of Soho House. He's an absolute legend. In this week's episode, we go deep into how he turned a single members club in Soho into a global empire. But everything Nick did was built on one very simple philosophy that literally every single operate on planet Earth gets completely wrong. wrong. I spend a lot of time simplifying things. What are the four or five points I really want to put across and be much more clear about what you're trying to achieve?

0:40If you get simplicity right, it can be very stylish as well. People just rely on designers to design their places and they're designing things of beauty, but they're not necessarily designing things which have an atmosphere. None of this came easy to Nick. Literally went through tons of failure, tons of setbacks and we go into that in this episode so you don't have to make those mistakes listen to this avoid the mistakes and you're going to grow your business way faster you're going to love it oh i've had lots of failures my first restaurant was a big failure all i knew is that i didn't want to sit in a rocking chair one day thinking i'd love to start with david bowie he's one of my biggest heroes um i love the way he constantly reinvented himself i love his specific taste he's got a quote which i love which is um the future belongs to those who can hear it coming yes yes people so the hungry reading list is here right if you listen to the podcast regularly you know i love reading i think books are the most beautiful thing in the world as stephen king said they're teleportable magic or something like that these books i whittled down my gargantuan bookshelf into 46 absolute 30 bangers the link is in the show notes to get the list whatever and it'll also make you a subscriber to our weekly newsletter which i think is sick so yeah get your fucking books buddy and i think when i've studied your career and body of work you seem to have this superpower to spot what's coming before other people do how do you spot things before they become obvious to other people do you think um well hello um and and i love david barry as well and he used to be an investor of ours yes so has new york um i don't know how i spot it i i i i i i suppose i'm the constant customer so i always look at everything through being the customer and I keep thinking that in hospitality, which has been going, Adam and Eve stayed in somewhere once upon a time.

2:59You've got to keep on improving it or keep on tweaking it or keep on changing it because people change and the way people live change and how people stayed in hotels at the beginning of this century is different to how people stay in hotels now. And I just think constantly you can keep on evolving the experience of a guest. So when you say I sort of see it before anyone else sees it, I don't see it like that. I just see it. Look, I just challenge myself every day. How can we tweak this and make it better? Yeah. Because obviously this podcast won't go live until after St. Clement's Open, but you've just shown me round.

3:41Yeah. It's absolutely astounding what you're building. When, like, take me into your head as through the consumer's eyes or customer's eyes, when you're walking around, like, how are you scanning the environment of the place? Like, how are you thinking about those, evolving those things to see it before? When I first went into the building, it's a new build. Yeah. And I think a new build is challenging. When I did sew a house, I was dealing with a lot of old buildings, warehouses, et cetera. So new buildings are always a bit more challenging. And I thought, actually, what's so special about this building is once you're in it and looking out, not necessarily looking at the building.

4:23So what I just imagined was... And also I wanted to imagine a place, the sort of place I wanted to stay in now. And I wanted to sort of have another look at how luxury hotels are put together. And you sort of go back to the first ever luxury hotel in London, which was the Savoy, which is just four blocks away from the St Clement. When was that? When did that open? That was like 1890. And it was like the social centre of London. It's where everything happened. because this area, the Strand Temple, is like where London started. And interesting, when the Savoy group opened their second hotel, they did it in the suburbs and they called it Claridge's.

5:22That is just showing how London has moved and changed. It did start at this point. And you look at the Savoy and it was all about bowler hats and high heels and glamour. And the world has moved on. And the world has moved on that those people now, what would they be wearing now? They'd probably be wearing a T-shirt, a cashmere jumper and a pair of trainers. But the hotels haven't quite kept up with that. Even if you walk into a very marble, heavy interior of a five-star hotel, you still feel a bit awkward if you're not dressed up for that interior yeah so what was going through my head when I was looking around and it didn't have a name at the time the the space was how could I make today's luxury feel more relaxed yeah how could I make it feel more friendly more approachable but at the same time have all the touches that you expect when you go to a high-end luxury hotel be it butler service be it if you need your suits suits steamed or your dress steamed you can get it done within 10 minutes and there's someone at your door doing it that there's the laundry, the efficiency of the service, the butler service, all of that exists within new luxury, but it's just done slightly differentness with a slightly different, friendlier approach.

7:06What was, because you were saying sort of the old kind of stale ways of doing luxury, it was kind of like hooty-floty, you know what I mean? How are you ripping that up and like taking away those irritants Well, the other thing I told myself is I stay in hotels and there are certain things which really annoy me when I stay in a hotel. And I'm a pretty impatient sort of character. I hate waiting for an elevator, so it's going to have quick elevators. I hate checking in. I thought, why in this day and age do you have all that kerfuffle? when you arrive at a hotel you have to give a passport a credit card you've got to fill out a form then the person behind reception tells you oh i'm going to ring a certain amount through for your incidentals oh so you think i'm going to run away you think i'm a thief yeah and so even before you get into your room you're irritated and what i wanted to do was well how how can we change that how can we and and and i know why hotels do it because one percent of people who stay in hotels mess around and try not to pay and 99 percent of people are completely up front and honest and always pay but the 99 percent of people are the people who are having to deal with all the procedures of what the one percent are put in for the one percent to behave themselves so we looked of that and so we want people to walk in and be already checked in well they do that through like an app or how are they checking you're pre-checking i think you most people pre-checking for an airplane flight nowadays uh well you have like because there's a something that rory southern talks about the he calls it the doorman rule the doorman fallacy which is the the reason you have a doorman is not really to open the door that's that kind of one thing but it's actually one it adds to the status of, again, this could be really old school, or this is very old school, adds to the status of the place, it automatically looks like, oh, we can spend on the doorman.

9:21It adds to the grandosity of the place. But also, you know, if they want to ask questions and stuff like that, there is someone there, a point of call. That's his theory. But, like, how would you do that without having a doorman and a bowler hat to make it feel, you know, a bit wanky? We're definitely having a door person. Yes. And they won't be in a bowler hat, but they'll be in a beautifully designed Alex Edle coat and suit and trouser suit. Yeah. So, yes, we're definitely having a door person. Yes. To do exactly that. But do it in the reinvented, relaxed stuff. In a very friendly way. Yeah.

10:04to obviously open the taxi door to hail taxis to welcome people and also just keep an eye on who's coming in and who's not coming in so interesting what's been the best piece of feedback you've ever because I know you say like the obsession with the customer what's the best bit of feedback you've had that's kind of changed changed the way you view hospitality it could be across anything well it all comes down from a lot of where I come from comes from that I'm severely dyslexic. So what I have to do all the time is simplify everything to understand it and to get through the day. And I also think there's a whole gang of people out there who love overcomplicating everything.

10:54Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I spend a lot of time simplifying things and understanding why can't you just do it like that? Why is that so difficult? And so I think I apply that to everything I do. So I think staying in a hotel, eating in a restaurant, drinking in the bar. For instance, when you go to the bar, you know, I know the bar, Bobby's bar we're doing, we're not, there's no cocktail list, for instance. There's no list because I sort of want to attract people who know what they're going to drink. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, most people go to a bar and probably can figure out what they want to drink without looking at a list.

11:38Yes. And so that simplifies it, I think. And to make sure that you hire people behind your bar who it's not about them, it's about the customer. So they're not constantly shaking at the shaker. Trying to beat the attentions, yes. Hey, look at me. I'm going to keep on doing it and I'm going to do it a bit noisier and I'm over here. Yes. Well, please just make me a quick, strong, lovely drink. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what you want. So that's simplifying it. Simplifying it. Food should be simplified, shouldn't it? You know, there's more than three ingredients on a plate. There should be a steward's inquiry for the fourth and the fifth.

12:19It doesn't mean there shouldn't be a fourth or a fifth ingredient. So I say that again. There should be a... A steward's inquiry. Like when you're at the cricket or the tennis and there's a student's inquiry about whether something's right or wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just think everything can be simplified. And I think that makes... Life is complicated enough not to go away and stay in a hotel or eat in a restaurant or drink in a bar where they try and overcomplicate it. and so I'm a lawyer is about simplifying everything I can't remember who it was someone says from the podcast it's simple sorry complex is easy simple is hard and it's like actually simplifying things down is a really hard thing to do I know you've talked about having like one sheet of paper or like just everything should be on one sheet of paper and I love that because there's you know I'm I'm actually quite complicated things I overthink stuff and not just get into that vortex of like, mm, so I'm asking this selfishly.

13:25How do you get all the information across, say, with St Clement on one sheet of paper? How do you cut away the bullshit, basically? What's the stuff you need to know? Well, A, I hate writing, so that helps. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I can't spell, so that helps. So simplifying everything is much more user-friendly for me. and I always say to people when they write to me or want to send me something, I say, just do it on one piece of paper. If you do it on two pieces of paper, I won't read the second piece of paper. I'm only going to read one piece of paper and it makes people think and it makes what are the four or five points I really want to put across and be much more clear about what you're trying to achieve.

14:13So the one piece of paper and the simplification is a lot about where I come from when I look, going back to your original, original question about when I went into the building and how did I start figuring out how Sir Clement would look and feel at the end of it. Sure. It was very much through those eyes and also the eyes of how can you make all the things that we want. I talked about like butler service, room service, steaming housekeeping all those those services how can they appear to be delivered with without too much hassle what are what would you say are the three to one to three most important things to be able to gauge a temperature you know this could be we could talk about sir house here as well like what are the three things that on that one piece of paper you want to know like three questions to make sure the place is in new york is the same experience as you know bangkok as i mean about so a house yeah i mean every time we designed a new house or found a new we did start with a blank piece of paper and go how can we improve it from the last place we don't want to make it exactly the same because we want to design every place to the city that it's in So I don't want to open a place in Barcelona and suddenly think, oh, I'm going to make it feel like an English hotel room.

15:50So you study the city. You go, well, I want this to have a Catalan feel. I want it to feel like it's rooted in the city it's in. so when you go into so house barcelona it feels it feels like you are in the city you're in and and also i think the other great thing about so house is when you do stay in a so house you are surrounded by people in the bar or the restaurant or around by the swimming pool who are local to the area because it's all the local members so it really feels like you're rooted in the city you're visiting whereas you could go to any other sort of hotel and the design is exactly the same from city to city you it doesn't indicate what city you're in but they but the other customers in it are customers who've flown in from different you know from around the world so they're not they're not rooted in the city so it's um but on the other so what i love is you have the you can make it like um feel very as you say sort of next part of the city but the other side of it is you still feel no matter where you are that you're in a sewer house so i was in nashville for um which was i was doing an interview over there um with will godara who did 11 madison park in new york brilliant guy and um he and anyway the interview was on the monday but the superbowl was on the Sunday.

17:20And so I went in, met some English blokes at an Irish bar early in the morning and they're like, I'll come and watch the game. And it was like, they had the beer pong, they had the, you know, like the Super Bowls on the big screen, the food offering was kind of like, you know, burgers and kind of, that kind of style of food felt very, it felt like, you felt Nashville in its soul. You also felt the soul of, sewer house right how did you get how do you get the soul to feel consistent across every house but equally be different to that unique city well i i think that a lot comes through the culture and the people who work there right so and it's it's a good point you you bring up and i'm glad you noticed it because it was a very thoughtful process that we went through which was i want even though the lobby in sewer house nashville which was an old sock factory it used to be a factory which made socks but um how can i make that reception lobby feel like the lobby that you'd find in sewer house berlin yeah but even though they're totally different designs and totally different buildings, but you sort of know if you walked in with a blindfold on and not saw a sign outside, and they took the blindfold off, you would say, well, guess where you are?

18:47And people would guess that they would be in a sewer house, even though the design was totally different. And I think that's down to the sort of people working behind reception. It's the friendliness that they give, the can-do attitude. and so I think you can create that that feel that you're in the same place in in other ways apart from choosing the same lobby furniture and you know but then you go into a house room and even though the designs are different the the the sense of generosity is the same the generosity and cow shed products, generosity and amenities, extensive minibar, et cetera, et cetera.

19:36So I think people feel that they're in a sewer house, even though they might feel different buildings and different cities. The other thing which I love is the, so Will recommended this book to me called by Priya Patel, which is The Art of Gathering. And it's really interesting. It's like, how do you create spaces to help people connect? and she says rules equals freedom so when you actually put in these rules it actually helps people connect and like there's almost there's lots of rules in so house but they help like like no laptops after some houses have laptops at x time others other times but what are some of the how do you think about putting in rules to help people one connect and i think you said on our on our tour mate that your job is to make sure people have fun and having a good time like what are the rules you put in place to help that i i i think there are more guidelines from rules i think it's you you want to attract certainly within so house and certainly the new project i'm doing withst clement we we want to make sure what are the three big important things when i look at at atst clement well you've got the building you've got the design which is all sort of pre-opening So you've got to hopefully get that right before we open.

20:57Time will tell. We're not open. Hopefully people are going to like it. The next thing you need to do is make sure you build a fantastic team with the right culture, with the right can-do ability, the right sort of how they talk to people, how they problem solve, how they just don't say, well, I need to go and check with my manager. We want people who use their initiative and have the confidence of using their initiative and have a backup of the people who manage a place behind them when they make those decisions. And then the third big ingredient is the people who are in there, the other customers.

21:43Because what you want to be is you want to be surrounded by people you want to be surrounded by. and and and it's that tribe thing it's that that that that community thing that you want everyone you you want to go into the elevator and not feel well why am I in this elevator and I think that's an important part of trying to make people feel comfortable and and and and relaxed. The one thing I wanted to ask you is you don't like the word brand which I think is interesting. Why? I just never really liked the word I suppose when I was building Sour House I never thought of it as a brand and I thought it was a collection of individual houses where where we have a lot of members of that individual houses becoming together as a global membership.

22:48But I just never thought it, as a brand, I just have made us feel like, you know, personal automatic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's entirely interesting. It's interesting because a lot of people outside looking at, from the consumer perspective, even people I've spoken to, but it's like is it a cultural brand is it a status brand and actually when speaking to you is you don't even think about that it's just I never thought about things like that when I run so I generally woke up every morning thinking how can I make it better for a member every day that's that was my thing I woke up with yeah um and that wasn't necessarily sort of thinking brand and overthinking things like that.

23:37It was literally, how can we just keep trying to make this better? And when we build a new house, how do we make it slightly different? How can we improve on the mistakes we made in the last house? And that was always my mindset to every day. yeah so on this new project St Clement I've all I've done is just thought about it from the customer point of view and I think the customer is super bright I think they it doesn't matter what market segment you're in or where you are I mean they know what's good they know when they're being ripped off they know they know when it's bad and they they they they will stay away and like when you walk down the street you look into all the restaurants the restaurant you want to go into is the one which is the busiest the one you probably can't get into yeah the one which has got half full you could get into but you don't really want to go there yeah yeah yeah that's how it works what's on the uh fresh piece of paper like what's some of the first things you put down and you you can either use sell a house or say clement like what the first things that go on that piece of paper wellst clement because it was the most recent and and and very much in my in my head was i i i wanted to first of all create the bog standard bedroom and I wanted to make it feel like and going back to an earlier question you were saying, I'm always about underselling and over delivering.

25:20Underselling, over delivering. So not being about I mean the bog standard bedroom that we have at St Clement some hotels could call it a junior suite. Well I've just seen it, it's outrageous they could call it a junior suite yeah yeah yeah but we're not and what we want is people to walk in there and go wow yeah this is fantastic and all the attention to detail in there hopefully is is is how people people really appreciate because people do notice everything and so the blank piece of paper was how can we take a bedroom and And how can you change a hotel bedroom? It has a bed, it has a couple of sideboards, it has a bath in it, it has a shower in it, it has a TV in it.

26:11So what are you going to do to change it? But you can, how you lay it out, how you use the space really sensibly, how you make the shower really powerful and nice and you put beautiful products in there that the customer can use or a sense of generosity. And we've created something called the Medicine Cabinet, which has got lots of young brands in it, using the word brands, but they are brands. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Different sort of... And is that, because, yeah, just for listeners, it's like you go into the bathroom, it's where, you know, where the mirror is, you open it up, it's just that little thing, Medicine Cabinet.

26:51I really believe God is in the details. It's all those small little things that compound. And it's got that gorgeous little tag, and then you open it and it's got like Harry Styles' I don't know it's like a treasure chest of brands but that's all free right? It's all part of it I mean how annoying would you think that that's a shop which is suddenly going to get a bill for Yeah yeah yeah The other thing is staying in a hotel and then you're checking out well St Clement you just walk out you don't have to check out you just walk out but when you do check out in other hotels and they say did you have anything from the minibar well i had a kit kat okay and then they put the kit kat on the bill and okay okay well let's let's let's let's that's that to me isn't hospitality it tarnishes the end experience yeah try and put what you put in the room as part of the the yeah complimentary part of the price and i think it's just rethinking all those things dan and the blank piece of paper kept telling me to go back and going.

28:01I think the bedroom experience at Sewer House is really fantastic as well. Yeah. So, but I didn't want to do another Sewer House because I'd done Sewer House. But I wanted to work out how, in a more higher luxury, how could you do the same sort of sense of generosity without everything you're touching is going to cost you a fortune. when so when you let's go back to the blank piece of paper i'm finding super interesting just to sink into that a bit more so yeah you have your bog standard room you're like how are we going to do this differently how are we going to almost um oshan from the devonshire he's been on the podcast a few times he talks about removing annihilating silent irritants so anything that could be just again the kitkat things are silent irritant the fork that is slightly you know imagine a fork but the things like slightly skew like that you could be in the most banging restaurant in the world yeah that will that could those little things so it's annihilating those but then when you go in to actually look at the room like what do you like how did you think about doing it differently i know we've talked about the medicine cabinet but other other things what else could we add into the room what could we take out so we've done a lot about reducing the size of a mini bar because i think mini bars just got too they became little little sort of convenience stores in in hotels yes and and i was beginning to find that a bit of an irritant and so we've taken tea and coffee machines out of the room and if someone wants a tea and a coffee they just what's up because everything's on what's up so you just what's up to come that can have a cup of tea and coffee and it will arrive on a silver tray hopefully in a very reasonable amount of time and it's all part of the price there's nothing to sign but you just get that if you want a tea and a coffee making machine in the room we have a a tea trolley which we can wheel in and plug in and you have you we you have your coffee machine and you have your kettle etc so So it was simplifying the minibar, absolutely simplifying how the television worked and how...

30:20Yeah, that's annoying. When I was at SoHouse, I did go and redesign a remote control, which had an on and an off and a volume and a channel part. And that was it. Yeah, that's all it needs. I couldn't ever remember why most TV remote controls have 50 buttons on. Crazy. and so the tv works very simply and and most people now want to carry on watching what they're watching what they're watching at home so what they're streaming at home so it's very easy connection doesn't matter what what whether it's an apple tv or disney or netflix you can easily put it up on the on the screen in the in the in the room tv's hidden some people don't want to watch TV.

31:09We got somewhere where you can store suitcases, which is... Which you showed me, which is, again, so simple. Because, I mean, you go into these beautiful rooms and then you go into them again and people's suitcases are everywhere and it's suddenly a very different feel. So all of that, on the white piece of paper, the clear piece of paper, I would just sort of jot down and how we could try and make the room work a bit better. After all the things I learned at Sewer House, doing Sewer House and doing the NED, I really wanted to simplify it again. What do you think is the most underrated design decision that most operators get wrong?

31:56Oh, that's a difficult one. Because I don't really like criticising other operators. Because I... maybe not criticizing other operators but if someone's just trying to start a new business a lot of people listen to this they're starting up a restaurant what's something that's underrated that most people don't really think about? Well I think most people overcomplicate things and overcomplicate things to what the guests want but I mean what would a new person opening a hotel or a restaurant and be thinking of how do they overcomplicate it? Well, they might go for a really complicated lighting system.

32:40And anyone would tell you, yeah, you need an iPad and you need a laptop and that's how you control your lights. And in my experience, those systems are always breaking down. I think it's the manager's job to make sure the lights are dim. So just put simple dimmers in and make sure that the manager is on about keeping the ambience in the restaurant or a lobby or wherever you want the ambience to be, bar. So I think overcomplication on dimming systems, music systems, just keep it simple, even reservation systems. I really do hate walking into a restaurant and being greeted with a computer screen.

33:30Yeah. And I think there's different ways you can do that. And you can go back to the diary and the pencil and the rubber. And you can still obviously use different booking systems, but you can hide it. I think any of that procedural stuff in a hotel should be removed and hidden and not given first view from a customer. So I think people do overcomplicate things. I think they overcomplicate menus. I think they overcomplicate and just simplify. So you hear my word simplification quite a lot in all this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think when you walk around St Clement, which you just have, there is a simplicity about it.

34:17but I think simplicity is also, if you get simplicity right, then it can be very stylish as well. Yeah, okay, so go into that more because that's spiked my curiosity. So when you get simplicity right, it can be stylish. What's the link between simple and style? Okay, when people dress up to go out at night, you can over-style yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. looking like boy George you can over style yourself and look a bit ridiculous or yeah and sometimes the simplicity of of how your appearance is just much I just think much classier when you go to a restaurant and you order a steak or whatever and they actually just cook a steak and put it on a plate.

35:17But it's a great quality bit of meat. It's been really nicely seasoned and it's been nicely cooked. Just put it on a plate. That's quite difficult to do because most people would much rather, OK, well, I've got to keep tossing the steak up and around. I'm going to slice it and fan it. To me, I know lots of people do that, but to me, that just then leaves all the juice on the board. that it was just chopped and fanned on. And, oh, I've got to put a bit of a sauce on and a bit of this and a bit of that. And actually, what most people want is just a simple steak. Even like, so when I, again, in St.

36:00Clement, the table, which is like a glass table filled with the pink sand. Yeah. Talk to me about how you think about that and all your team. because again that is so simple but it's so arresting in the best way possible and stylish but what's the thought process with that table specifically it's a sort of standout piece really which is it's it's it's a sort of you look at it and go oh i haven't seen that before because the sorry for listeners the sand's like this gorgeous like yeah uh fluorescent pink isn't it yeah like day glow pink almost yeah i mean the lobby and i hope lots of people come and have a look at it um i didn't want to make it feel like a hotel reception i wanted it to make it feel like almost someone's drawing room who hopefully had very good taste in furniture and art and and didn't overdress it and kept it pretty simple what if you i know you did a lot of flying obviously what if you were to do uh like a sewer house airline like what really fucks you off about airlines like how would you do that or or even just a saint clement airline oh i've often thought about this yeah but we have often thought about like what would you put on the piece of paper for that because there's not even silent irritants there's loud irritants with airlines like i i think some airlines get it really right i i i think if you're gonna even bother offering food, figure out food which works well in the confinements of how you got to serve it.

37:42In the confinements, as in? Well, so, I mean, if you're travelling a club class or a first class, it's sometimes totally overcomplicated. They say a fillet of beef. and they can't deliver a fillet of beef 33 ,000 feet up in the air with a sort of heater oven because it would just come out well done. So first of all, figure out what works best being heated up. Yeah. It can still be super nice and super different, but I have lots of opinions about seats in aircraft and in service. I think one of the things which really annoyed me in aeroplanes is the amount of announcements they do. And I think someone hasn't gone back and thought, all they've done is just added announcements, and they've never actually gone back and looked at editing all the announcements.

38:43I mean, I've got a lovely Scottish wife, and I fly to Scotland occasionally, and it's not a very long flight. Maybe it's 50 minutes, but 45 minutes of that is announcements. Yeah, yeah, yeah. By the time you're taking off and you're first in the air and then you're landing and then you're, yeah, it's a lot of announcements. So I think airlines could do a lot of things just simplifying their offer a bit. What else could they sort of simplify down? How a chair works, how, I think, the food menus they could do differently. Yeah, all sorts of, I mean, a lot of them get it right And I'm no expert in how do you deliver a service of that in the air.

39:31But I think, again, people overthink it at times, which then put it into a category which is very difficult to deliver. And the people they're serving probably don't want to eat like that. So it's adding, adding, adding. it's the removing of friction removing a friction i think that's what we're really getting to here is is how do you remove friction how do you simplify service and and and and customer journey and how then do you yes yes people we're trying to make hungry into the most valuable food and drink business podcast on planet earth but i really need your help i want to make this podcast so valuable for you to help you grow your business faster, stronger, better, have way more fun.

40:25We've got a super short customer feedback, sorry, consumer survey, audience survey thing on Google Forms. There's a link at the top of the show notes. If you could fill that out, it would be so helpful. We make this podcast way better for you. You sort of invest in, I bet you love it when you go to a restaurant and people recognize you and go, hi Dan, how are you? I mean, how much better are you feeling? Yeah. There's the guy who started B at 1, Rhys. And he's just opened a place called The Saviour on Northcote Road. Well, it's just above it. And again, he's, it's like his new baby. A bit like what you're doing with St.

41:06Clement. He's wanting to get back in the game. And he's got these young kids, 20, 21, 22. And he's got them like, they are so, like, they're now my mates. I mean, I do go there and drink there quite a lot. and we even did we did an event there but he they just recognize you they know they're like dan guinness bang done like it's just that's the tiny little thing and i now don't go to the north coat pub because that that that service just isn't friendly yeah it's can you how do you guys train that on a mass scale that level or is that just is that something that's already preordained in the hiring process i i i i i think you yes there's all sorts of things you can do on on guest history CRM keeping a record of what people had when they were last in their likes, their dislikes there's a lot of that but a lot of it comes from you just remember you just remember your good customers when they come in and you go hi Dan, you have your Guinness today and you feel nice about that and so I mean we haven't had one customer come through St Clement because it's not open yet But when they do start coming through, we want to build up a really regular, loyal following.

42:21Because that's what, again, I want the Café Clement and the Bobby's Bar to be full of people who live and work in London. So it's when you walk in and you stay in the hotel, you feel like you are in London. you don't feel like you're just in a hotel bar surrounded by a lot of other travellers in a hotel bar. I jump around loads. What did David Bowie teach you about taste?