Dirk Nowitzki: Legacy, Lessons and Loyalty

27:14But by the way, tell about this belt that he had hanging over a lamp. Well, that's allegedly, I'm not sure that it was actually there. They still claim it wasn't. In my memory, I thought it did. My sister don't remember it either. So maybe I just made that up. But they were. How do you make that? I don't know. Maybe. I mean, they were, of course, tough, tough parents. They were old school. At times when we didn't listen, you know, it's time for some discipline. But, yeah, I'm not so sure about the problem. In what ways were your parents tough? Just, you know, just show respect. I think that's the major thing.

27:58If we weren't respectful to them or other children or other adults, I think that made them really mad the most. everything else they were super cool I mean my dad is so fun that he even to this day when I go out with my friends and works for he would he would join I mean everybody loves him he's got this funny personality he's always joking around but when it was time to be serious and he said something then had that had to be respected and I really liked that actually and I think um he's been such a great role model for me that I'm trying to do that with my kids I want to be the fun playing dad.

28:39I'm laying on the ground wrestling with them. But also when it's time to go or some time to do something and I say something, then, you know, we have to get it done. So finding that, I think, a mix is sometimes hard, but it's been a fun journey. Did I read this correctly, that you were popular in high school because of bubble gum? Well, you really got, you guys really did some deep research, but I was always hungry. And so So either I had a little gum, which of course is not allowed in school, but I always kind of like had a half, just a little piece, something just to nibble on. And so some of my friends would always come like, hey, do you have something?

29:21And I'm like, here's a little piece of gum. But yeah, that's, I forgot I said that. That's good research. How did the hairstyle change after Boris Becker won Wimbledon? You know, hairstyles, I tried way too many things in my career, in my life. But that was cool. I was a huge tennis fan. And that time, that era, Boris Becker and Steffi Graf, Michael Stick, it doesn't get much better than that in the tennis world. So I was a huge tennis fan. And I remember going to the hairdresser and I was like, I want my hair cut like Boris. And she's like, what? So she didn't make it red, but she made it sort of spiky, I guess.

30:04Boris was one of my first, you know, idols that I loved watching. He was such a warrior. He won Wimbledon when he was 17. Just a great, great player. Explain the situation where, when you were playing tennis, you were accused of being two years older than you actually were. Yeah, of course. You know, in tennis, they stagger you with your age group, and sometimes you play with a year older or with a year younger, depending what year. But, yeah, there is a picture that I still see. I think it's at my parents' house. And the guy I'm playing is probably barely up to my waist. I mean, it's uncomfortable how big I was and how little he was.

30:46And so, of course, you know, parents sometimes are like, is this guy really born 78? Because he's almost seven feet now. I'm joking, but I was way into six feet already at 11, 12. I was always super tall. I would say as a teenager, I was taller than most of the teachers already. At 15, I was almost seven feet, I would say. And didn't your parents at one point talk to the pediatrician about trying to stunt your growth? That is true. We went to go to the doctor because it was getting a little uncomfortable. I mean, I was at this point two meters something, which was like, yeah, 6 '6", 6 '7", and I was obviously still growing.

31:31I didn't want to be, you know, 8 feet tall. I wasn't sure if there was something wrong or I could get close. I mean, it was weird. It was a tough time. Did you think something might be wrong with you? I wasn't sure. I mean, I didn't see anybody else this tall around. So we just wanted to make sure that everything was okay. and they x-rayed I think here my wrist here for the growth thing and the plates and it was still wide open they said so and he predicted at the time that I would be like 6 '10, 6 '11 and I said well that's not bad I mean that's I can I can do that if he would have said you're gonna be 7 '8 then I probably we probably would have thought about maybe a little hormone treatment or something And I ended up being now a little over it, actually.

32:18I'm now seven with shoes, probably seven, one. But at the time, yeah, it was challenging. I mean, and growing up there in the 80s, they didn't have that much clothes for big guys. Sometimes we had friends travel to the U.S. I remember, hey, bring me the longest pair of jeans that you can find. I would wear one pair of shoes the entire year to school. and just size 15, 16, 17, wasn't around in their 80s, late 80s. So it was... It was even difficult when you first became pro, finding clothes and shoes that fit you correctly. Yeah, I mean, then it was a little better. I had to get some stuff made, of course.

33:00But yeah, growing up was challenging at times. Skeletor? so there is a uh a show i'm not sure if they have it here it's a cartoon called he-man he was this superpower a big fighter and he was the good guy basically saving the world with this battle cat was his little cat that he had and one of the bad guys in that show was was skeletor and he was basically just a skelet and and you know you could see through him but he was the mean bad guy. And so, of course, kids are pretty ruthless, as we all know. And so they would call me Skeletor for a while because I was obviously skinny. And then we'd go, we'd have to go in PE, we'd have swimming, and everybody obviously was in bathing shorts.

33:48And my ribs were literally sticking out here, everywhere. I was so skinny. And then that was my nickname for a year or so was uh was skeletor so and while it might be funny now it was not then i mean it was like it was like painful right yeah i was a shy guy and and and hearing that and then i didn't want to take my shirt off uh anymore it's just teasing i guess but uh when you're i've always been a sensitive guy and of course that was that was weird for me and in a way i always tell the story that maybe that's why i ended up at basketball because uh it was easy for me nobody asked me hey hey, how's the air up there?

34:28And, you know, in tennis or in handball, I was always the tallest. And being around basketball, there were other tall guys. I wasn't the tallest always or somewhat similar at least. And so I felt comfortable. I felt comfortable. I was around older guys. They were taller. And so I think in a way, of course, I was talented in basketball. It was fun for me, but it also made me feel comfortable. Did those days make you self-conscious in a way that you still carry to this day? I mean, now I laugh about it a lot more, you know, going into a room or whatever. But it always will be that way. If a guy walks in who's 7 '1", people are automatically going to stare.

35:15It doesn't matter if they recognize me. I can go in there somewhere in the middle of nowhere. and you duck in to go under the doorway and you come in, people are just going to stare. I didn't love that early in my life either, the constant or the whisper and the pointing, like look at this lurch over here. But now I'm like, it's fine. I get along with it and it's funny. But as a teenager, that's definitely something I didn't love the attention. So that made me definitely uncomfortable at times. And when friends would ask you to go to the pool, you just would stay home? I would stay home and then play sports, which I loved that anyways.

35:59But I'm sure if I wouldn't have been so embarrassed about how skinny I was, I would have probably gone to the pool a couple more times with my friends. But that way I just stayed home. I shot in our yard. We had a little basketball goal. Even my mom would look down. She didn't really know what was going on, so she would look down from the window and be like, what are you doing? It's like 100 degrees out here. Just go to the pool. And I'd be like, no, no, I like sports. I'm not going. Why do you think you didn't share that? I'm a guy that soaks everything in and very sensitive but never really talks about stuff.

36:36And I deal with it in my own space, in my own head, in my own body. And so that's how I just dealt with stuff. So I don't think my parents were aware that I was embarrassed that I had bones sticking out everywhere. I don't think they were aware of that situation at the time. Why do you consider basketball a girly sport? I think that was early when I played handball and tennis. And handball, you know, I don't know. Handball is not really big in the U.S., but it's really big in Europe. You can push somebody. You can hold them. You can even shove them to the ground at times and only get like a little bit of a penalty.

37:14And so to me, that was a tough sport. And my mom and my sister both played basketball. So to me, that was like, you know, you can't touch anybody. And, you know, if you bump somebody too hard, it's two shots. And so to me, growing up, there were just us boys, we play handball. When I was about 10, 11, they were like, you're so tall, you can just come to one practice. And so I joined the school team. We were doing well right away. And then I really started really loving the sport. And then I joined the club with my cousin, who was a year older than me. He kind of took me, he was like, just see one practice and see if you like it.

37:52And that was it. Really? Loved it. Loved it from day one. And never stopped again. Joined the club, played there my entire career, basically until I went to Dallas with the club in Woodsburg. And at some point you knew the roster, could recite the roster of basically every single NBA team. Yeah, well, then once I dove into basketball hard, I was in. Then I quit handball first because my school was struggling. I could do three sports at the same time. Then I was doing basketball and tennis for a couple more years. And then at 15, I went all in the basketball. And explain the school gym, by the way.

38:30I mean, the court, nothing like this. Yeah, it's probably half the size. Basketball wasn't a big sport in Germany at all at the time, so there were really no nice school gyms. If you want to play basketball or really any sport in Europe, you usually join a club. The club have the nice facilities, the nice gyms. So the school gyms are usually super small. And it was like, it was this wooden backboard. And I mean, it was old school, but it was enough for us to run around a little bit, do some layups. That's where I really started was in the school team. You end up getting 30 scholarship offers. You make visits to Cal, Stanford, Kentucky.

39:12I understand there might be at least a little regret that you didn't go to college. How much truth is there to that? Well, it would have been fun, I think. I think it was a good decision not to go, because at the time, late 90s, you know, the big guys, the game was still different. I didn't want to be a center. I didn't want to all of a sudden go to college. somebody put 20, 30 pounds on me and be like, hey, son, this shooting is nice, but we need you closer to the basket. And the game just wasn't as evolved as it is now, where the big guys all are outside and moving and shooting. And so if I, my whole career, if I talked to most of my teammates, they all said, hey, that year or two years or whatever, those years in college, they were amazing, just the camaraderie.

39:56And it's different in the NBA. You know, you play together, you have good buddies, But everybody goes their separate ways pretty much. Everyone wants to practice or the game's over. And just that tight unit that you are in college, I think I would have enjoyed that and life on campus a little bit. But I think for my career, it was the right decision to go straight. There are rumors about the NBA lowering the draft age to 18 years old. What are your thoughts on that possibility? Well, I think it's been sort of weird the last few years. Some guys go to Australia for one year. Some guys go into the G League.

40:38I think you might as well have them come in out of high school if they're ready. The way guys are doing it is not, they don't really want to go to college anyways. And then if they do, at the end they're worried about getting hurt. Then they don't play in the tournament as we've seen the last couple of years. That's just silliness to me. That's just silliness. So you might as well open it up if they're ready. The scouts would know, the kid will know, the family would know, and then we'll go from there. But what's been happening in the last few years, I don't think is good for the game. Holger, what impact did he have on your life?

41:11He was just a huge mentor, and I owe him everything because I wasn't sure at a time of 15 where this journey in basketball would take me. And he taught me everything. He taught me how to move, to shoot, and also helped me off the court with stuff, with school, and just growing into the person I wanted to become. What would he have you read? Every year for a birthday or Christmas, he would give me books. And I'm like, oh, great, another book, Holger, that's sweet, great gift. But he always tried to brighten my horizon and learn different things. and he had me play music. He wanted me to play the saxophone, so I played the saxophone for a couple of years.

41:56Just open your mind up to other things, not just sports. And also at the time, we weren't sure if it's going to work out. So he said the more well-rounded you are, it's going to help you in life better if you need a job later on or whatever. So he always pushed me in other areas. And what kind of books? It's kind of hard to say. Some were novels, some were like books really hard to read for me about nature and physics. And I'm just like, Holger, this is not, it takes me years to get through this, just to understand a few words. So, but yeah, that was his way of always trying to push me and push me to new limits.

42:35Explain how he was trying to help you as a defender by fencing. So the long story is he never liked weightlifting. He thought that I was still growing as I was as a teenager and it's just going to hurt my joints. So we basically tried to find things in the summer for me to do to keep the fun, get a little bigger, a little stronger or movement, better movement. So we tried all sorts of other different sports to see, hey, what training can we steal from them? What's good for, what could work for us? So we rode a lot. We did a rowing camp every year in the summer, which is good, all around power.

43:21We went to like a boxing training just to see how they train and warm up. And then fencing was on the schedule once. I'm like, I don't even have a suit or anything. What are we doing? So this club made me a whole fencing suit and I got to fence. And what's so good about fencing is they're attacking, but while they attack, they also always play defense. So basically Holger's philosophy there was on defense, basically you have to be active with your hands and without selling out and giving too much up and somebody can just blow by you. So it was a cool experience. But as we all know, I think defense wasn't really my strong suit.

44:05So I don't think the fencing took my defense to another level. But it was fun to see. And although while the stories are kind of funny, obviously it worked, you know, the non-traditional ways. And you had a ton of success. What's the name or the reasoning behind the name of his academy? What, the plight nonsense or whatever? you know he just i think he noticed early that people he was just not normal he was he always thought outside the box which in germany at the time wasn't wasn't very popular people are like now you do you guys are doing this all wrong you're you're doing such and such and that's not going to work and so thinking outside the box is is not always liked especially at the time when we were starting to do things different.

44:56And so that was his, he called his institute, Institute for Polite Nonsense, I think. It's just something that he, he wanted to be different, but he also, he knew that he was wired different. And you mentioned the saxophone. What did he once have you dribbled to? So we had, one of his friends was a jazz musician, and he actually was his mentor when he started playing. And so the guy would come sometimes to our rowing camp, and he would sit there on the sax. And we were practicing, and he would sit there on the saxophone, and we would have to dribble. And basically, Holger would call it dance the game.

45:40He didn't want us to play like robots, right? He never, growing up, even when he was coaching, he didn't want us to run all these plays, and you just go set this pick, and you set another pick. Like his philosophy was everybody's got to have fun and enjoy. It's like the sport is like a jazz band. There's five guys out there. Everybody has their own skill level and they're all good at something. And somehow they're all in the same group, but everybody brings different skill sets. So he always compared basketball to jazz. And he always said when somebody did a good move, you're like, oh, b-ball is jazz.

46:17That was just his saying. So his friend would always come or sometimes come to practice with his sax. And he would play the saxophone and we'd have to dribble to the rhythm and then mix up the dribbles and make basically the bouncing sound as the drums. And that was just his way of dancing the game. How true is it that David Hasselhoff once came looking for you at the All-Star game? Oh, you're bringing up some great classics. David was huge back in the day in Germany with Baywatch and Knight Rider, which Knight Rider was my favorite show growing up with the, hey, kid, come here and pick me up, right?

46:58I mean, that was so cool. I think it was in our 2006 run to the finals when we ended up losing to Miami, but I ended up in that whole playoff run, I made some big fritos. When the game was on the line and one of the reporters said, how in this pressure situation, how do you stay so cool and relaxed? And I said, well, one of the methods that me and Holger always tried was sing a song, you know, just not to not freeze up, to not let the pressure get to you, just to stay cool, stay calm and have your favorite song in your head or hum it or whatever you want to do. And so one of the guys that asked me, oh, yeah, what song is it then, actually?

47:38And, you know, there's a couple of guys who were funny guys from a radio station, and they knew David Hasselhoff was big in Germany. And he threw in, oh, he was looking for freedom on David Hasselhoff. And then I was like, sure, whatever. Next thing you know, he kind of blew up. And David came, I think one round later, he actually came to a game. And we got to spend a couple of minutes. And then the following year, the All-Star game was in Vegas. And I'm warming up. I'm feeling good. You know, I'm here in dark. I turned around. It was David Hasselhoff front row at the All-Star game. So just super funny how that all came together.

48:21Did you ever tell him it wasn't true? I don't think I did. It didn't really matter. I was a fan anyway. So from my teenage years. Was it Counting Crows, Mr. Jones? That was at the time, yeah. Yeah, because that's what I think at the time was just, I don't know, one of my favorite songs. And it worked for me one time. You know, we were all routine driven. So when that worked one time, I stuck for that playoff run. That's the song I had in my head. So can you still recite all the lyrics from a Shaq rap song? I actually can. You can't? How did you know that? We do our homework. So I was such a huge NBA fan.

49:02and then I was a huge Shaq fan. I also loved his rap music. You know, you know I got skills, man. You know I got skills. That song, and there were a few others. There was one with the Fushnikens that I loved. It was called, What's Up Doc? Can We Rock? And then at the end he comes in. This is a bit embarrassing, but there was a time where I can, his entire spiel, I could rap that. I'm not sure I can still get the whole thing going, but it was like, I'm a hooper, hyper, protected by viper. When I'm not a hooper, you better decipher. It better make you better make some funky decisions because I'm going to be a shack knife and cut you up in position.

49:44Forget Tony Dancer, I'm the boss. When it comes to money, I'm like Dick DeFrost. And then, oh, I struggled a little bit, but that was the one with the full schnickens. You ever consider making your own? I love music. Loved hip-hop my entire life, basically. Still think 90s music is still my favorite to this day. But I don't think I have any talent in making music. You grew up in a small town in Germany where the X-ray was first discovered. I think your first trip to America, you packed your own towel. How did the states compare to what you were expecting? You know, all I saw was the show Dallas a little bit.

50:32My parents were watching, and so this was like, you know, on the countryside. I was a little shocked how big the city was already then. You know, the skyscrapers, and I had no idea what to expect. And, I mean, it kind of blew my mind. Of course, there was a little bit of a language barrier there when I got here. It was a little bit of a culture shock because I lived my parents my entire life. And then not only am I one or two hours driving away, I'm 11 flight hours away. So it was hard not knowing anybody, not having my family close. And that was hard. You know, my mentor Holger, when something was wrong, I'd call him and be like, there were probably times where we were on the phone every day, before every game.

51:20Then after the game, I felt this and this and this. What am I doing? I can't make a shot. And you don't even have a cell phone at the time. I didn't have a cell phone. No, I called from my home line. That was busy still back in the days. But then he would literally, if something would really be bad, he would show up two days later. He would be there for me and we'd practice or we'll talk. And that usually helped me a lot. And then I always give Steve Nash and Michael Finley a lot of credit because they were so great to me from the beginning, how they supported me. You know, even Mike, who was the man at the time, he wanted me and Steve to grow and get better.

52:02And, you know, there's a lot of guys who could have said, no, no, you guys are staying down here. I'm the man here. He wanted us to grow and share the spotlight. And so those two guys, Steve would always take me out when I'm homesick or we'd go to movies or dinner, meet some of his friends on the road. and those two guys were true professionals on and off the floor and I learned a lot from them. The Loon, was that what it was called? The Loon was the hot spot at the time. So we lived close to the arena at the time, just an apartment complex. So that's where Steve lived and when I came I was like, that makes sense.

52:40Steve is there, I'll just live there. It was a great decision for me because like I said, we ended up doing everything together at the beginning. And so, you know, this is like a late 90s. Sometimes after a Monday game, there was nowhere to find food. There was no catering yet. This was before all that. And so at 10 o 'clock, 10.30, you get out of the gym, there's no food anywhere, no restaurant open. And so we started to go to this bar after games. And they had a really good burger and they had a really good chicken sandwich. So we started to go there. and then the better and more recognizable we were, people started coming there, and next thing you know, this spot is like this hot spot.

53:26You can't barely get a parking spot outside anymore, and it really just started with me and Steve go there after games sometime, play some pool, and, you know, have a burger, and next thing you know, it's the hot spot. What would you say your lowest point was, though, in those early days with being homesick? There were games where I didn't play at all, and I've never envisioned that. I've never felt that in my life, in my career so far. Those were tough times when you don't even get subbed in at all, which I understand what Donnie and obviously Big Don were doing. They were protecting me for some matchup.

54:06They didn't want me to get embarrassed and lose confidence. And so sometimes Donnie would come up to me after and say, hey, listen, this team was not your matchup. so you're probably not going to play. It was still hard. It was still hard for me. Depressed? I mean, I don't know if it got that bad, but I always, what I did was I kind of worked my way through stuff. You know, if I didn't play while the other guys were doing media, I was already on the bike. I was getting a sweat or I went back out, got some shots up. The next day I would show up two hours early for practice and just, you know, if I don't play, I've got to work hard and I've got to get better.

54:50So you can play me. And off the court, yeah, I mean, homesick. I was the worst, yeah. I mean, I've had my whole family at home. But the good thing is, I guess, we were so busy and we're always traveling, always games. And then there was Steve next to me that developed a great friendship. So I think it never got to the point where I'm like, I'm out of here, everything is not working, I'm going back home to Europe. It never got that far. But your sister had been in the States before you and only lasted nine months, and she wanted to get the heck out of town. What did she tell you before? Well, she went to Duquesne, which is in Pittsburgh, for a year after high school.

55:32And she had a tough time, mostly, I think, during the holidays when it was Christmas, right? Two weeks break. She didn't want to fly over and fly back. But nobody was on campus during Christmas. so she'd be sitting by herself with maybe another foreigner on the whole campus. And I think that was the toughest for her over the holidays, Christmas time. And she told me that, but, you know, we were so busy. Even we played through on Christmas and there was really no time even on holidays to miss much. But I think it sometimes is normal when things are not going your way that doubt creates in a little bit.

56:12So I was thinking, was this the right decision? Should I have stayed in Europe? Should I have gone to college? I'm sure that's normal in the first year. Because your mom thought you should have stayed in Europe one more year, right? Yeah, she wanted me closer. I visited a team in Milan. I visited a team in Barcelona. And she wanted me to be closer. And if something happens, I can be there in an hour or two and not go overseas that long. But, yeah, that's the decision we ended up making. And correct me if I'm wrong. I heard you ate fast food for lunch and dinner. You were sleeping on a twin-size mattress, and you were not cashing your paychecks.

56:59It was a little bit of a challenge to get going at the beginning. I was really fortunate here to have a lady, Lisa. She works for the Mavs and they kind of say, hey, Lisa, why don't you take care of Dirk a little bit, help him out when he's struggling. And so every couple of weeks I'd go in her office. I didn't even know how to write a check. so she's like hey listen this is where you put your name this is where you put the date and then here's the number here you write it out and I knew none of that I never had to write a check in my life so it was yeah at the beginning was just pretty rough I bought I had an apartment and I rented and there was nothing in it so I got I remember I got a twin size bed I think I had one couch that was you were able to pull that out if I have a guest coming that's where holger slept and really that's it the kitchen was built in and and oh yeah i had a tv and a and a rocking chair to watch some tv and that's how i got going and i had to buy some a couple plates a couple of us you know knives and forks and that's how i got going at the beginning and i didn't really have much time to to add more because that my first year was the um the lockout year so we had 50 games in like what two and a half months so i mean we were if i was there to sleep a few hours and then we were off again for a game or a road game.

58:23So I wasn't really home that much in my first season anyways. Then for season two, things got a little better. Actually, my first year I had a rental car because I knew I was only there for two months. It took you a minute to figure out how to get the AC to work? There was a few issues there. It was just a small, I think it was just a small, normal, compact car. So every time I pull up to the practice facility or to a game, the other guys are just killing me. What are you doing? Buy a car? I'm like, I'm only here for two months, and I'm going to go right back. First flight after the season, I was going to be out regardless.

59:00How can you even fit into a compact car? Yeah, I mean, I had the thing all the way back, and then, you know, I had to, yeah, just everything maxed out. And then it was getting into April. and May because the regular season lasted longer than normal because it was postponed obviously and then it was already getting warm in Dallas it was like 80s 90s out and I'm going to the game and I'm in a full sweat showing up I had both my windows rolled down and I show up sweating to the game and they were like what are you doing I'm like man my car is super hot I'm not sure what's going on and uh and they said do you see this button here AC you have to push that in so when And when that light is on, that means the AC is on.

59:43I'm like, oh, that makes sense. Because my car in Germany didn't have AC. I had an old Volkswagen II. You literally had to just roll down the windows everywhere. So that's what I thought I had here when I got here. But there was AC in that car. How did the diet change eventually? Yeah, you know, beginning of my career, I think in the late 90s, we didn't know that much about nutrition. like you do now, now everybody's vegan and gluten-free and whatnot. Back in the days, maybe there was that wave slowly starting, but I didn't really care about it. I didn't think it would make a difference for me that much.

1:00:26So, I mean, it was basically like burgers and chicken sandwiches after games, pasta before the game. And then, you know, as you get older, I think that's normal. You care more about your body. You learn more about your body. and what you put in it. And so I completely changed my diet when I was about 27, 28. Did it actually help? Oh, it was amazing. Yeah, I would always say I would probably go back now and do it earlier. But I was just in my prime. We had just made the finals in 06. We lost to the Miami Heat in a tough, super tough final series. Then I only had a few weeks off, And then I played the world championships in Tokyo.

1:01:12And there I just couldn't get going. I didn't feel it. I was like, hey, I'm in my prime. I'm what, 27, 28. I should be feeling great. Why am I not feeling good? And then I just started reading more and more. And that's when I changed. Yeah, basically everything, you know, cut out sugar, no sodas, no desserts during the season, barely any alcohol, maybe around the All-Star break every now and then. But usually in my last 10 years of my career, I didn't drink during the season. basically cut out all the red meat. And so it was pretty, pretty strict there for the last, yeah, 10, 12 years of my career.

1:01:45And then if you splurged briefly, you would feel it immediately. Yeah, I mean, when you have a lot of sugar, that, of course, increases the inflammation in your body. And then, yeah, you just don't feel as active as when you're in practices. But I would only do it in the summer when we traveled a little bit then, when I was off for a couple weeks. And then once I started training again, I did the same routine again, training with Holger, and then usually played the big tournaments internationally. So I would only splurge there for a few weeks after the season and really have a good time. And then once I started training again with Holger in the summer, it was back to the routine.

1:02:28And weren't you starting to become conscious of heart problems that big men would have? Well, this is just now more really in retirement. A couple of teammates that I played with already passed away, and that's something that should be on every athlete, but also big men's radar. And you have to keep training, keep training the heart a little bit. And so I ride a lot of bike just to keep the heart pumping and get a little workout. After the 06 NBA Finals loss, I think you and your inner circle are up well past 6 a.m. Take me into that moment and kind of describe the scene and what's on your mind.

1:03:16Well, 06 was one of the most frustrating losses of my career. We were, you know, basically up 2-0 going to Miami in the finals. We were only two wins away. We're thinking this is a wrap. the Dallas Morning News, the paper here, had printed the parade route. And then we go down there and we lose three straight. And then we come back here and we're up 20 in game six. And when they come back and we lose in six games. And I remember just being so frustrated. We were so close to winning. It's like your heart gets ripped out a little bit. But I always said to myself, hey, we have a young team. I'm still in my prime.

1:03:57And at the end of the day, I think we'll be right back there since that's how I felt. I felt like we were a great matchup for the Spurs, who at the time were the best team in the West. And so I'm like, we're just going to come right back. So during my frustration in those couple of weeks, I was saying in my head, I'm super, super disappointed and frustrated. But knowing me, I'm going to work hard and I'm going to come back next year. And then next year came, and we were rolling. We won 67 games. That was my MVP season. And we are the heavy favorites to win it all. I'm feeling good. I'm playing my best basketball.

1:04:42And we run into a hot team with the Golden State, and we lose in the first round. And in a way, I was more disappointed and frustrated after that loss than I was after the finals loss. You know, the finals loss, we still had an amazing year. We're right there knowing with a little tweak here and there we can be right back. But that 0-7 loss with all the high hopes and high expectations, we're thinking we win it. We had the Spurs number that year and then we lose in the first round. That was, I think, the low point of my career. Was it? I think so. How did it affect you? I didn't want to leave my house for a while.

1:05:26The good thing is my dad was there. My sister were there at the time. So they kind of talked to me a little bit and tried to build me back up. But that was probably the most frustrated and disappointed I was. What are you thinking about then? Like I let my team down. I let the city down because I didn't play well that round. They were a tough matchup for me. They played me with two or three smalls. Every time I dribbled the ball, somebody else was coming, ripping the ball away. And I just, that was not my series. And for two weeks, I felt like embarrassed to leave the house. And then I wanted to leave basically right away.

1:06:06And I told the Mavericks that I was basically, I'm out of here, I'm frustrated. And then the NBA called and said, you can't leave. There might be a possibility you're winning the MVP. and I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. Of all years, this year, I don't even want it, right? Just keep it. But then I stuck around a couple more days, and then they actually called and said, yeah, you want it. Because at the time, they were giving the MVP away in the second round. Of course, we weren't in the second round, so I had to do a little press conference here during the second round. I remember I didn't even sleep the night before.

1:06:47I knew Mr. Stern was coming. They gave me the trophy, and there was a big press conference, and I wanted to be as far away as possible. That's the last spot that I wanted to be was here, and I kind of got through it. I can't even remember what speech I gave, but I know I was just so frustrated and embarrassed that we're not in the second round. That was a tough moment. You were talking about tough times on the professional front, and everybody goes through those. Also tough times on the personal front. And arguably one of your toughest times was with the ex-fiance. I'm curious like when the first time was there was a sign that, oh, something might really be wrong here.

1:07:35Well, I was as shocked as everybody. I had no idea when this happened. And so that was a very, yeah, very tough time. Because usually I did a great job always keeping my private life private. This is not for everybody. I know I'm in the limelight. It's kind of part of it. But I've always been a private person. So for me to all of a sudden have my private life all out in the open was something completely different. and I was super embarrassed about the whole situation. And it was literally in the middle of the playoffs too. So it was a huge moment. And to this day, this Denver series that I played in 2009 was one of the best series I've ever played in my life.

1:08:23I averaged like over 30. And I think it's because all the turmoil I had in my private life kind of really helped me focus in and enjoy in a way, have that joy to get away from it during that series. But yeah, that was a tough time in my life. I think it's okay to make mistakes though. And I think after the first initial couple of weeks where I'm embarrassed, I'm like, oh God, this is, you know, everybody now is going to look at me and be like, oh, did you see what happened to him? I went home right away. I saw my family. We went on a vacation together with my sister, with her kids, for two weeks.

1:09:05And then after that, I was already fine. I was like, you know what? This could have happened to anybody. It just happened to me. And I'm going to move on. I'm going to be the same lighthearted guy that has fun with people. And it was just a mistake. And I got to learn from it. You can't close yourself away now from everybody and just go into this little shell. well, you know, life goes on, you made a mistake, and you still have to be the same guy. When you first find out, how do you confront her? I don't really want to get into specifics on how all that went down. I needed a lot of support from Holger and, of course, my family, like I said, and close ones and friends, and I don't really want to get into specifics.

1:09:53And you changed your number and, like, email address almost immediately. Yeah, of course. I knew this was going to start, obviously, a big storm. So I just wanted no parts of anything. I kind of just wanted to focus on the play. It was still in the middle of the playoffs. I didn't want a thousand messages, and I didn't want to go on social media. Was that still before? I think that was still before social media. It's been so long. But, yeah, I just kind of stayed away from everything and just focused on the task at hand. that was the the playoff still and once the player then we lost that series to denver then you know it was a little bit like i said the emptiness and then you think about it all the time then i just wanted to go home and and be with my family and enjoy them enjoy their company enjoy the kids from my sister and and then i think my outlook on life uh changed already again but and i'm gonna ask like how you got through to the other side but when you're in kind of those lowest points like in the middle of it?

1:10:53What are you thinking about? How can I get through this? Look forward, work my way through it. Look forward to basketball. Have my family there for me. Not necessarily talk about that situation or anything I go through, just interacting with them, I think, more than anything. Not talking to them? I mean, it's not like they want to know in and outs or even when I'm frustrated after another playoff loss, I'm not sitting there and pouring my heart out to them. It's just me being myself with them, and they've known me for my entire life. I think that's more the cure for me, just to be around people that love me for who I am and spend time with them.

1:11:41Usually, I don't get to spend as much time with my family anymore, so to have that time with them. Yeah, but isn't that one different, though? I mean, like it was your fiance at the time got arrested. And you applied for custody of a kid that didn't exist because she said she was pregnant. Yeah, correct, which we didn't know at the time. It was heavy stuff. And I remember we had a press conference first. I was very nervous and anxious and embarrassed. And I got to say, it was a tough time. I was told that one of the reasons it was hard for you was, you know, you made the decision to get married and that was kind of one of the first big decisions you'd made completely on your own yeah i'm not sure i thought that was the one and we were we were both on the same page um so of course that was uh yeah it was a shock to me how do you grow as a person um going through like an experience like that well it's yeah it's adversity it's uh you have to go through something that pushes you because I was super embarrassed to go out in public.

1:12:46I was, and to me, I take stuff, I'm a sensitive guy, I take things very hard and so, yeah, I was hard on myself. How could this happen? How did I let this happen? But, you know, you just get through it. You have support and you, my family, like I said, was very important that year and a A couple of weeks later, I moved on. You go from a low to a career life high in a matter of less than a couple of years. You know, fast forward, it's game six of the NBA finals. I think there are four seconds left and you're already in the locker room. What's on your mind? When I made it to the Olympics a couple of years earlier, One of my goals was make it to the Olympics and of course the NBA championship.

1:13:44And so when I made it to the Olympics, when we won the game, I completely broke down. I was crying, I was hugging teammates. And so I kind of felt that same feeling coming on and I just thought, hey, collect your thoughts a little bit, go back to the locker room, have some tears, and then you can come back out and that's exactly what I did. I needed a few minutes by myself, even though our PR guy, the NBA PR guy, were chasing me down there. Where are you going? You got interviews, you got the trophy. And you didn't want to come back. No, I didn't. At the time, I just laid. There was a little bench in the Miami shower, and I laid on that bench and had some tears and thought about, you know, all the hard work that it took to get there, all the people that helped me to get there.

1:14:28And so it was just an emotional moment. but actually I wasn't as emotional as I was when I made it to the Olympics. So I kind of got myself. Yeah, I don't know why. Because with the Olympics, I think it's one game. If we would have lost that one game, we're out there. I mean, the championship for two months was kind of leading up this whole situation. And I don't know, maybe it was just that do or die situation for the Olympics that we had there. So I kind of was fine after a few minutes. And then Scott was saying, the PR, you know, you're getting the trophy. And I was like, give it to somebody else.

1:15:07I don't want it. But then after like five minutes, I was totally fine. Now, of course, I'm super happy I went back out. The photo is everywhere with me lifting the trophy for the first time and hugging everybody and being with my teammates. So I'm glad they pushed me back out. Do you regret not allowing those close to you to fly in for the finals? I do a little bit after. Yeah, my sister, I think, sometimes brings it up. What did she say? She said, well, we weren't there. She doesn't really bring it up a lot, but it just rubs it in every now and then. I think what happened was in 06, we were up 2-0, and my dad and my sister came in, and we ended up losing the finals.

1:15:49We didn't win another game. And so I didn't want, I wanted whatever we were doing in 11 there in the playoffs to get us there, I didn't want to change anything. I wanted the same people around me. I wanted the same, which some people would say it's superstitious, which I'm really not that much in life. But at that moment, I said, I don't want to change now. I don't want more people here now in my house. So I ended up saying, no, please don't come now to the finals. And I do regret that a little bit. I think they would have had a blast being there. Are you surprised they didn't come anyways and just not tell you?

1:16:25Well, I think their plan was maybe just to fly into Miami and then maybe stay at a different hotel just to still be there. But no, it didn't happen. So, yeah, sometimes I look back and I think it had nothing to do with them. Whether they would have come or not had nothing to do with us losing in 06. But you know how athletes sometimes are. They live in their own heads and they're all head cases. And so at the time, I was like, no, I want to keep the same crew. After you qualified for the Olympics, your dad comes into the locker room after. How well do you remember that? Yeah, I mean, I was already an emotional mess there in the locker room as soon as we made it.

1:17:06And I was just laying on one of those physio benches. I had to rush back out to do a live interview with the live TV that's filmed us for years. And after like finally, I think five or ten minutes, I finally got myself back together. I'm about to go out and then comes my dad. And then, I don't know, I broke down again and I ended up not even making it out to the interview, which the guy is still not happy that I didn't come out and do that live interview. For real? Yeah, he brings it up every now and then. But I've followed the Olympics ever since I can remember, you know, just living in the village.

1:17:40It was just such a dream of mine to accomplish that. And when we did, I just broke down. Mark Cuban, what do you remember from when he bought the team and your first recollection of how this guy's different? Get business done with the new American Express Graphite Business Cash Unlimited card. With unlimited 2 % cash back on all eligible purchases, unlimited 5 % cash back on flights and prepaid hotels booked through American Express Travel Online, and a flexible spending capacity that can grow with your business, you'll have the confidence to keep building. Apply today and earn a welcome offer of$1 ,500 cash back after you spend$50 ,000 in qualifying purchases on your new card within the first six months of card membership.

1:18:23Terms apply. Learn more at go.amex.com. Pays Checkout is offered by your banks and credit unions. So when you shop online at participating merchants, your cards appear in one place, ready to use and kept up to date. And the best part, your actual card number isn't shared when you check out because boundaries are healthy, like no work emails after six. One small step for boundaries, one big leap for checkout. Pays, it checks out. Activation required. See Pays.com to learn more. Terms and conditions apply. Well, it was a time where we didn't really quite know what to expect because, you know, some new owner, you know, he might bring in new coaching staff, his own people.

1:19:06I remember there was a period of, you know, not knowing what's going to come now. So I think that was the worst thing that we didn't quite sure how he was going to come in. And you guys were practicing on public courts. Sometimes we'd come back at night to shoot with Steve and they had league games going. So we'd shoot on one of the side baskets on the baseline so the ball doesn't go in. And then when they take a five minute break, we'd run out, shoot a couple of threes real quick. I mean, those were the old school days. But anyway, so when Mark bought the team, there was some uncertainty there.

1:19:42But he showed it pretty much right away that he's all in. He bought us a new plane. He wanted to build us a new arena. He kept the coaching staff. And so he was all in on trades and taking on money and spending money to have us win. And so he basically turned this franchise around and put it back on the map. And free agents wanted to come. And so that was a wonderful time for me, as I remember. The beginning was very tough. And then once we started to get rolling, my third, my fourth year, Finn Nash was getting better and Van Exel. We had some amazing runs there. To me, of course, the championship will always be better than everybody.

1:20:29But those early days, once I got over my first disappointment that it's not working, was some of the best times we had. How about the best time you and Cuban ever had together? Well, there's plenty. We've known each other now over 20 years. I always tell the story. He came to my bachelor party. How many owners come to their players' bachelor party? So we had some good times off and on the court. What was that like at your bachelor party? with it? Oh, just fun. What about Juwan Howard's birthday party? In the early days, we were just, we were having fun. It was, he was our number one supporter, and I loved it.

1:21:15But he also, you know, wanted to be a part with us, and he was on every road trip, he was at every practice, and of course we were having some fun as well, especially around the All-Star games always so uh i don't necessarily remember that night as vivid as he does i think there was more of a bad experience for him but uh we we had a good time july of 2010 i think you think you're going in to meet with him at his house to say you might be leaving uh take me into that conversation and how it changed well you know in uh i never had really an agent so holger uh kind of talked a little bit with the mass but then he was like hey listen i think mark wants to talk to you why don't you just go over there and do it yourself so that's that's the agent i had and so i went over to his house and we just uh we talked about the old times we talked about the good times the bad times and it was like just talking to a friend really not not your owner and we both got emotional And I think we both agreed that I'm part of this team, I'm part of this organization, I'm part of this franchise and city.

1:22:31So let's just do it. Let's just stay. And, well, of course, I never really wanted to go anywhere anyway. Oh, you didn't? No, I didn't. But we weren't quite sure. You know, I was a free agent. The last few years, after 06, 07, we were the best team. We had declined. And so I was just, you know, making sure that we're all in still. And then, of course, I signed that four-year deal, and we won the championship in the first year after that. Oh, and it required you sacrificing a lot financially to make that work. Yeah, I could have signed a max deal and decided to take a little less. To me, at that point, I had already, individually, I'd already done everything.

1:23:18all-star, whatever, a bunch of times, and MVP or whatever. I mean, you probably left somewhere between$70 and$90 million. Well, that's later overall. At that contract, I didn't leave that much. I don't want to give myself that much credit. But later on, I could have signed another couple of maxes. But first of all, I wanted to be here. The city has been great to me from the beginning. Mark has been a loyal friend to me. Even on and off the court when stuff weren't going well, He was the first one to be there for me. So we just have a great relationship. And the city has been loyal to me. And I'm a loyal guy.

1:23:53So it always made sense for me to stay here. I wanted to wrap with this. You know, you've talked about before you were never the most confident of guys. You know, you were shy. I've been viewed as kind of a glass half empty in terms of how you view things at times. But I've been told by somebody close to you that I've never seen Dirk happier than he is at this moment. I'm curious for your thoughts on that. I can see that. I think what always kept me on the edge was a little bit of the pressure. Even in the summers when I'm off, I'm still thinking basketball. I'm still thinking I need to stay in shape.

1:24:45What can I do better? I just think that pressure is away. It's off now. And I can do, I can let go. I can do what I want. I can travel without looking for a gym and a workout room every time. I can I think that's that's that's helped me kind of be more at ease be more maybe fun going and not always having that pressure of eat right and and perform and in my head going forward so but yeah I'm loving family life and and the kids so I'm I'm in a good good spot thank you very much Thank you. Dirk, you mentioned your musical inclinations before. Well, I only know one song that I always kind of play.

1:25:36So I played the saxophone a little bit. And I heard you don't play sax anymore? You can't? No, what happened was, at the time, my teeth got knocked out, the front two. And you know what, the sax, you kind of have to put your teeth there. And so I had like a brace there for a whole year. that and then once I took that brace off I never actually got back to it but I played the guitar for a few years my brother-in-law is actually in a Rolling Stones cover band he's he's a lead singer he's the Mick Jagger and all the moves and and so he taught me a few years and it's like any any, I guess, anything, any hobby, you get to a certain spot, it's fun, and you like it, and then if you don't really put a lot of work in, you don't get better, and you get stagnant, and then that's, I played the drums, I played the guitar, I tried the sax, I played the piano, I tried everything, but I'm not good at anything.

1:26:36But the one thing I do remember is just this song, you guys probably know this song.

1:26:53More Than Words by Extreme. I mean, that's basically basic stuff. But that's one song that I always remember. The rest I've kind of forgotten. I used to love Ben Harper.

1:27:22Do you play much today? I don't. No? I have a guitar at home, or a couple, actually. Roley has some, my brother-in-law has some of his flying around, so we probably got like five or six guitars at home. And Carlisle got you a piano. And when I read that, I'm like, I didn't even know you played piano. I was always talking with Carlisle. He's a huge music guy, and so he's like, do you have a piano? I said, I played growing up, but I actually look to get one and then just because I want to get back into it. And then one of the seasons was over and I'm about to get off and leave for the summer. And he goes, hey, in four weeks, something's come to your house.

1:28:03And it's a gift for me and everything you've done for my family. I'm like, four weeks? What is that? And then sure enough, a couple weeks later, up shows a huge truck with a Steinway seven-foot piano. And I'm like, what? So he gifted it to me and opened it up and he says, thanks for everything you've done for me and my family from Rick. And that was super special. I mean, actually now the circle closes. My kids play on and they all have piano lessons. And I unfortunately never found a way back in it. I want to, but all three kids play, and they enjoy the piano. And I'm stuck with this little thing, but I should practice it a little more again.

1:29:04What do you think, Rob? That's a wrap. Thanks.

1:29:10that was awesome that does it for my chat with dirt nowitzki as part of our day i also got to play some tennis with him before his charity tournament but apparently a lot of people thought i was holding back in my tennis ability which i can assure you that was not the case and if you want to see that plus highlights from his foundation star-studded tournament including my chats with Ben Stiller, Steve Nash, and others, youtube.com slash Graham Bensinger. Have no fear. Chosen Foods is here to defend your favorite foods from the forces of seedy oils and sketchy ingredients. With cooking oils, salad dressings, and mayo, all powered by the good fats from 100 % pure avocado oil and simple, delicious ingredients.

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