I Know Who Will Go Next in Trump's Reign of Chaos

0:00Trump has two years to go and he wants to do it his way. Poor Katie Zachariah. It's not really her fault. It's Donald Trump's fault. He picked her out of nowhere without preparation. Was she a lawyer? Was she an attorney? What is the difference between lawyer and attorney? No one has clearly asked those questions because Trump said, oh yeah, look at, I like the way she looks. I like that look. Let's get her. bypassing Susie Wiles. Trump is in charge, wants to be in charge. Pretty good chance, maybe inevitable, that Susie Wiles goes. She's brought her daughter into her orbit. And her daughter has become a power within the White House, within the Trump circle.

0:48Someone you don't want to cross is Susie Wiles' daughter.

0:55Michael. Joanna. back again back again we feel like i just saw you just minutes ago well you did because we were discussing live we had an emergency podcast on the exiting after only five days of katie zachariah the white house press secretary would you consider it an emergency or a kind of uh you know, a vaudeville act. Oh, well, can't it be an emergency vaudeville act? Yes. Well, I mean, I think that that's part of the attractiveness of this story and why everyone is on it is because it's certainly, it just, it's a window into the incompetence, the stumbling, the lack of logic about the Trump administration.

1:52And it's kind of funny. In the end, poor Katie Zachariah, but it is kind of funny. Well, it is funny. And we had a few comments from people saying, why are you focused on Katie Zachariah? The war in Ukraine is so much more serious, which of course it is. And we talk a lot about the war in Ukraine. But as you say, what - But this is the important point, Sorry to talk over you, although I'm often delighted to talk over you. Yeah, frequently. But the important point and the underlying point is that these are the people who are running the war in Ukraine. Exactly, exactly. And this gives us a window into how they operate.

2:33Or, in fact, as you would say, don't operate. They don't operate. All right, we have to remind people, where are we going to be on Tuesday, two weeks ahead of the midterms? Yes, we will be in Los Angeles. As a matter of fact, I think we leave for Los Angeles the day after tomorrow. I am. What are we wearing? What are we wearing? I don't know. I don't know what we're going to wear. It's going to be warmer. I was in L.A. last week and it was delightfully warm. Although it was cool in the evening. Right. And it's now the weather has now turned in the east. And I am in the Hamptons, which it has dramatically turned.

3:10And it's kind of cold. Yeah, it's cold in the city. So anyway, we have to get our heads back into hot weather. But we will be in Los Angeles on Tuesday night at the Teragram Ballroom. And we will be doing the podcast live. And tickets are available. Please come. Please come. Teragram Ballroom, October the 20th, two weeks exactly to the day ahead of the midterms. we will be laying out what's at stake and we'll really be going inside Trump's head where we go three times a week to find out what he's thinking about the midterms. Does he even care? I think that's a very good question. Does he care?

3:55And, you know, up to a certain point, he does. It would be easier for him if they won the midterms. He likes to, you know, any any opportunity to be a winner he will take. But if he doesn't, no, then he doesn't care. Then he just kind of jettisons that issue and he's on to other things. And he'll blame everybody else. He'll blame everybody else. So we're going to be talking more a little bit about Katie Zachariah and the incredible luck that the Wall Street Journal had that she was on the phone doing an interview with him. She really was enjoying her press debut when there was a knock on the door and the call to go and see J.D.

4:41Vance. And we'll explain what that was because it was actually a ruse. We're going to talk more about Elon Musk's funding of the election and just how much money he's pouring in and why it matters. I'm going to do a quick drive-by on Donald Trump's strange comment about doing his own makeup. and his fixation with John Ossoff and John Ossoff's makeup. As far as I can see, John Ossoff doesn't really wear makeup. The Georgia senator doesn't really need it. It would be also interesting to touch on his debate with Mike Collins in which Ossoff just cut that guy up into the smallest pieces I've seen in recent history, recent debate history.

5:29Why did Mike Collins agree to do that? All the Mikes are getting chopped up. Mike Rogers up against El-Sayed. El-Sayed is whatever you think of him as a candidate. He's definitely a better debater than Mike Rogers. I mean, why do these people say yes when they know this is going to happen? And what about Troy Jackson in Maine burping through his debate with Susan Collins? And then when there's a protester and Susan Collins blames it on one of Troy Jackson's people, he goes, oh, shut up. I mean. Well, oh, shut up. It can be a kind of relief because that's what everybody, when you listen to a debate, what do you want to, what is in your heart?

6:17Oh, shut up. True. Very true. All right. So we have a lot to get to. It's Saturday morning. We're recording this on Saturday morning. And I can hear in the background the delightful sound of your children chirping as they skip around not having to go to school today. Yes. And I am afraid that that is going to be part of the podcast this morning. I think that's absolutely fine. I think people don't mind. They're very lenient when it comes to the sound of happy children in the background. They may not always be happy in the background, by the way. They are happy now. Also, do you realize we never tell people who we are?

6:58You are Michael Wolff, author of four books on Donald Trump. I am Joanna Cole's content officer, a title that you constantly deride at the Daily Beast. And here we are discussing what's going on inside Trump's head. And we have known each other for 25 years or more. Possibly more. Possibly more. And we've had years when we didn't speak to each other because we were having feuds. But the feuds were always sort of bogus, I think. It's because you like conflict. Well, I can't remember what the feuds were about, except I remember them with some pleasure. But I don't remember what they were about. Oh, my God, you're so annoying.

7:45All right. How is Katie Zachariah feeling this morning as she wakes up from dinner with J.D. Vance last night? And what's inside Trump's head about her? Has he already forgotten her? Yes, he's certainly moved on. And what is she feeling? I'm sure she feels relief now at this point. I mean, Trump was actually, he actually has some understanding of these kinds of things, what this feels like. And he said to her, you know, I told her you don't need this. Now, he may or may not have told her that. But that was how he basically described her firing, her defenestration. You don't need this. And it's true.

8:32I don't think anybody does to have gone through that, to have that the focus, that focus on the of the world on you. And it's not just it's not just even a probrium in which you can say, you know, get defensive about its mockery. So I'm sure she says, oh, my God, how did that happen? I am so glad it is finished. I wonder if she is feeling that or if she's feeling an acute sense of humiliation and failure.

9:09To go out in the public. We cannot know that. But I think the thing is, I really think the thing, you know, happiness is the remission of pain. And when this goes away and when you can see this going away and it hasn't gone away yet, it's just you're just in a new world. Well, there was a story in the Wall Street Journal today that chronicled her last hour there or last couple of hours there. And by happenstance, the reporter from the Wall Street Journal was on the phone with Katie, who was explaining her day and how she was planning to make friends with everybody in the press office who'd already decided they didn't like her.

9:58when there's a knock on the door and someone says, oh, the vice president, you know, wants to see you. She leaves the room, at which point Donald Trump is, I think, on the helipad telling reporters, I said to her, do you really want this? Do you really need this? You've got four lovely children. Why do you want to do this? Let me just add another detail to that. So you're knock on the door from someone that someone which the Wall Street Journal identifies as a man by the name of Jason Miller, who has been long a kind of secret power in the White House. Jason Miller was actually meant to get that job, the press secretary job, in the first administration.

10:48And then he had complicated personal issues. A pregnant wife, a pregnant girlfriend, that didn't work out so well. A pregnant wife and a pregnant girlfriend at the same time? Yes. Such things happen in politics. But he has always been one of the people in Trump's ear. And it would not be impossible for him to be the person to step into this role. Certainly someone who will be, I would imagine, will be consulted, who probably actually wasn't consulted in the Katie Zachariah case. But now now there will be a lot of consultation. Well, one person who was auditioning with all his jazz hands was Scott Jennings, our friend, the man that you say will never get this job.

11:51Nevertheless, it doesn't stop him auditioning as fast as he can. And we have a clip of him from CNN last night. I do have a view about how to staff government positions. And my view is very simple. Find the most experienced, competent person that you can find because you deserve it. You're the president of the United States. You're the most powerful person in the world. You're the leader of the free world. And everybody who speaks on your behalf has to speak with credibility and authority when they stand up behind that podium because they're speaking to the whole world. And the things you say at that podium can move markets and move mountains.

12:25And so that person is very, very pivotal. A lot of people you hire never see the light of day again, but that person is in the spotlight every single day. So Scott Jennings basically describing himself. And I would say that that is probably. Well, I was going to say that that probably hurts his chances, but I actually think he has no chances anyway. So because he's not blonde and he's not a woman. Precisely. but I guess maybe maybe I mean what do you who do you go to when you run out of blondes maybe maybe Scott Jennings I suppose I well it's possible that Scott Jennings could dye his hair blonde I think he's so ambitious for this job he might he might become a woman is it possible you are just gonna say and then get implants yes of course yeah I mean And stranger things have happened.

13:24Stranger things have happened. So what this does do, and for those of you who caught our emergency podcast yesterday, which once you've done it live, it's then preserved forever. So if you if you care to, you can go back and watch it. And we we trod on some of this territory yesterday. But let's for those. And again, I would challenge emergency. It was more of a ditty live podcast. Let's jump on. Let's talk about this one. This is really. Well, I like your description of it as vaudeville. I mean, it is. If you go from the beginning, this transpires in a very short period of time, that the appointment of this unlikely person, who?

14:10I mean, literally, who to to her being pushed out onto the behind the podium in in the lights. Obviously, her saying, where am I? What am I doing here? And what do I say? And then her being kind of pulled off the stage almost with a hook. and um um and then her fate is clearly written from that from that moment on and then they and then they um then they then they chop her up assassinate her you know and the other thing that sean hannity thing she's put on sean hannity and again it's it's a it's a reminder later, Fox News does what the White House tells it to do. Fox News is an agent of the White House.

15:06And Sean Hannity was was called by the White House and said, you know, take her through, you know, give her what you got. And I suppose maybe if somehow if she had survived that, She rose to the occasion. Maybe they would have rethought this, but it was. But she didn't. And again, this was the White House using Fox News to do its bidding. I really want to talk to you about the Susie Wilds of all this Donald Trump's chief of staff. But before we do, I just wanted to look at this picture. It's a bit like it references to me that photo of all the astronauts coming off that movie. I think it's Armageddon led by Ben Affleck.

15:50And if you see it, it should be in slow motion. But you see the four of them. You've got Natalie Harp, Walt Nott, Susie Wiles and Katie Zachariah. And you've got Katie with all the sort of bloom of excitement around her new job. She's got her Louboutin shoes on, which are tiny bit scuffed if you go in on the photo. But she's dressed for the role. This is before just just correct me if I'm this is they're on their way or maybe they've arrived at Alaska because the president Trump is going is going out to Alaska to defend. Dan S. Sullivan. Ah, the double Sullivans. Yes. How can we forget? We're reminded by the name so often because there are two of them running for the Senate.

16:47So she has just come off of her disastrous news conference. And if you look at the expression of Susie Wiles here, and we know that Susie Wiles was excluded from the decision to hire Zachariah, you know in Susie Wiles' expression that Katie Zachariah is not going to last. There is just something about it. You also have you have the two young women, Natalie Harp, who always wears nude shoes. And I think she wears I don't know if she has many pairs of the same shoes, which is possibility or because she's on a salary of one hundred and fifty thousand. So she should be able to afford more than one pair of shoes.

17:29But she always wears these nude pumps, which she wears because it elongates your leg. If you look at the difference between Katie's legs, they look shorter because they've got the black tip to them. Natalie's legs look as if they go on forever. And you've got Katie obviously scrambling because she had no notice really that she was getting the job. As she explained on Fox, trying to give context to why she seemed so ill prepared at the briefing. She was like, oh, well, you know, they called me on a Thursday, rushed in. She rushed back to California. It was all chaotic. I think she slapped on some fake tam there on her on her legs.

18:10But you see the difference between the two young women who are, you know, the blondes that Donald Trump wants to be surrounded with, as you've made the point. And then you've got Susie Wiles in her sensible flat shoes, the woman who actually does the work. It's just a delightful contrast. At the same time, if we have Susie Wiles here eyeing Katie Zachariah like a snake before its bite, Susie Wiles is also on the proverbial exit tarmac. Is that a metaphor? Does that work? I think on the off ramp. The off ramp. Thank you. I was trying to get the word in tarmac because these people spend a lot of time on tarmac.

19:08On the tarmac. You know, you go through these pictures, which they produce at a rapid rate, and it always seems like three quarters of them are on the tarmac. On the tarmac. Anyway, she is, I mean, Susie Wiles, that's another big question mark. What happens to Susie Wiles? And we ought to, a little nod toward, to Walt Nauta, Nauta, Nauta, who has been one of the great doormats of this, of the Trump years. And I'll remind us that he was indicted in the documents case. So he had a criminal indictment that was, of course, vacated as soon as Trump became the president of the United States once again.

20:18year and non-diabetics with obesity or overweight with a weight-related medical condition versus 3.1 percent in placebo arm. Rx only. To stay informed about serious side effects, go to row.co slash safety. And isn't he the man that runs around with a pair of scissors so that if Donald Trump's hair is deemed to be slightly too long at the back, he whips out the scissors and gives it a little instant trim? Yeah, I mean, he's a body man. That's what is in political Political terminology, that's who he is, the body man. And he's very close to Trump. I mean, very close. I mean, he is close, physically close all the time.

20:55I mean, he and Natalie are kind of the double. Those are the two people always, always behind him, always with him, always with scissors, if you will. Always with the scissors. And there was another photo which we discussed on Thursday with Donald Trump sitting somewhat sort of slumped, very much an old man. You said that he reminded you the shape of him because he was sitting in Marine One, the helicopter. He reminded you of FDR and you have the two blonde ladies, Katie Zachariah and Natalie Hart, sitting facing the camera. It's a Doug Mills photo from the New York Times, beautifully framed with a military person on either side of the helicopter door.

21:44And as you said, the vision that Trump wants you to have of him, an old man with two young blondes. Well, he doesn't want you to think of him as an old man. He wants you to think of him actually as a man with two young women. Therefore, he should be young, which is a misperception in this because, you know, you often look older when older people often look older when they are surrounded by younger people. I wonder if that's the case with me. Anyway, for another story, for another discussion. Well, perhaps we can go into that when we're live on Tuesday at the Terragram Bowl in LA on October the 20th, two weeks ahead of the midterms.

22:33Tickets available on Ticketmasters. Tickets available on Ticketmasters. Just type in Inside Trump's head, which I did yesterday. I think the VIP tickets for the meet and greet have all gone. Possibly not. But anyway, if you want to come and meet us, we will be availed. So we've seen the Katie Zacharias story and we've seen the Kimberly Guilfoyle story. And we've seen the story of many defenestrated women of the Trump administration. We are waiting for a man. I think we're going to get one. But Susie Wiles is on the tarmac. What's going to happen to her? And we know it means nothing, but Donald Trump came out and said, you know, she's incredibly loyal.

23:21Susie Wiles has my full 100 % support. We can assume, I mean, that's a danger sign. So if he is saying that, if he feels the need to say that, it's because she's on shaky ground. So do you think she's a scapegoat after the midterms, assuming they lose the midterms badly? You know, I think it's very possible. I mean, I think it's also possible that she's telling Donald Trump that she's, you know, she's making noises that she's going to go. If I were the chief of staff and had had two years, last two years of an administration and then losing the midterms, you know, that's a it's a very good time to go.

24:07So she's, you know, she's, as all people in the White House are always doing, she's thinking about what next? What do I get out of this? Do I write a book? Do I, you know, how do I make money? How do, what's the best, what's the best place for me to be? And not what is necessarily best for the White House. So I think that's, that's possible. And then the other possibility is that Trump has two years to go and he wants to do it his way. And the fact that he appointed Katie Zachariah, and we should go back to that, poor Katie Zachariah, it's not really her fault. It's Donald Trump's fault. He picked her out of nowhere without preparation.

25:01Was she a lawyer? Was she an attorney? What is the difference between lawyer and attorney? What are those bar exams in China like? So no one has asked, clearly asked those questions because Trump said, oh, yeah, look at I like the way she looks. I like that look. Let's let's get her bypassing Susie Wiles, an indication that, you know, is I mean, Trump wants Trump is in charge, wants to be in charge, resents anyone. the suggestion that anyone else actually might be in charge. And so, yeah, I would say it's a pretty good chance, maybe a fair chance, maybe inevitable that Susie Wiles goes. Did Susie Wiles like having Elon Musk in the White House when they started?

26:04Elon hates Elon hates him. Dole. Another. Well, it's another another issue. I mean, that was, you know, Susie Wiles. OK, Susie Wiles exists as long as she had because she doesn't in she doesn't engage in overt battles. So Elon came into the White House, established effectively a parallel White House, and which she understood, well, she resented this and she understood the danger of this. But she also stood back from it smartly, waiting for Elon. And this is in the first months of the second administration, waiting for Elon to self-destruct, which he did. But she certainly was not aiding him in his effort to build a power base within the executive branch.

27:13she appears to have what you need in politics which is patience that you can see something spiraling and you just let it spiral and don't get involved and with the knowledge that it's gonna whatever implode on itself whatever spirals do whatever world whatever whirlpools yeah i don't I've always found her a kind of a puzzling character. One of the things that people around her said is that she was wholly focused on her own portfolio, which is to say her own survival and her own image. In other words, she was not as chiefs of staff often then come to come to believe that their responsibility is the president of the United States.

28:14What he does, they are offering counsel. They see themselves somewhat as an alter ego or somewhat as a, you know, they're the chief operating officer to the president's chief executive role. Susie Wiles never put herself in that position. It was always about, I am here. I am here to survive. I am here to do what I can do without crossing the lines over which Trump gets uncomfortable and Trump notices, then you have crossed the line. So I think that's been a very interesting conception of what the chief of staff role is. And I think we've discussed before, she really has seen herself more as a chief administrative officer.

29:19She makes the trains run on time. And she did work for DeSantis, Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida. And she also worked for Marco Rubio, right? Yes. I mean, Marco Rubio was a client of hers. And then she had worked, I believe, in the DeSantis campaign. And then they had a famous falling out and he accused her of all kinds of things. And that became a kind of the Trump 2024 campaign was a kind of a revenge campaign for her against her former boss, Ron DeSantis, a very successful revenge campaign. Well, it's possible, I suppose, that she leaves after the midterms. Well, she's not going to leave before the midterms because we only have a couple of weeks.

30:11But yes, it would be, I mean, just politically and career-wise, very logical. Although career-wise and one of the other virtues she's had around Trump and for keeping her job is that she's in her late 60s. She may be 70 now. And so she has never radiated someone who has her eye on bigger things, although she well may. Well, I was going to say it's possible that she wants to leave, as you say, after the midterms, make some money, which she'll easily be able to do, and then maybe get behind Rubio and help Rubio in his campaign. And then she would have, you know, she might be chief of staff to two different presidents, which would be a first.

31:05And she has that. I think that would be unlikely. But she's brought her daughter into her orbit. And her daughter has become a kind of a, you know, a power within the White House, within the Trump circle. Someone you don't want to cross is Suzy Wilde's daughter. This is Katie, Katie Wilde. Another Katie. Everybody's named Katie, apparently. Everybody's called Katie. Everybody's called Katie. All right. So let's talk a little bit more about Elon Musk and the sheer dollars he's bringing to this race. We know that he supported Donald Trump's 2024 campaign with 300 million. He's now put and then he said he was done with it.

31:56He wasn't going to put any more money into politics. So he puts$300 million into the Trump campaign in 2024 and buys himself, as they say, a seat at the table, a very large seat. He becomes, with that$300 million, hands down the second most powerful person in the Trump White House, second only to the president. And with a larger portfolio than I think anyone has ever had other than the president within the White House. So Doge became the... Let's remind people that Doge was the sort of informal Department of Government efficiency because Elon Musk was convinced that the American government was, you know, wildly overspending, wildly out of control and needed to be throttled back.

32:49But it gave him great power inside of every department, every agency in the executive branch. It was extraordinary. I mean, so extraordinary that it actually backfired rather quickly on him because his power came to threaten Trump's power. And also he managed to antagonize every single cabinet secretary because he wanted access to all their data. He wanted to meddle with their policy. I mean, Scott Besant was bristling. Howard Lutnick was bristling. I mean, everybody felt he'd overreached. And also because he's so strange, he had no, you know, I think we both heard at the time that he was just sort of behaving like a crazy person out of control.

33:37Well, he had become giddy on it, giddy on power. And effectively, he he he promoted himself into the job of the uber secretary, greater than every other secretary in any other in any other cabinet department. So and it was that was anyway, it was a it was a catastrophe and a catastrophe that still has repercussions throughout the government. He did an enormous amount of damage. So at any rate, and then he went away. He went away in a huff, you know, a famous huff. And declaring at one point he was going to start an alternative party and God knows. But he has come back with another$300 million this time around, trying to buy himself what?

34:37We don't yet know what he's trying to buy himself, but he's not spending$300 million for nothing. Well, much of it has gone into the Texas campaign, where, of course, he has SpaceX-based and a lot of his children, right? I think a lot of his children are in Texas, but certainly he has SpaceX in Texas and Tesla headquarters in Tesla, I think. Is that right? Yes. I mean, Texas is a very big – that's a power center for him, which I guess he's trying to sheer up. I'm not sure I would spend all that money on Ken Paxton. That does not seem like a sure bet. But the race with Ken Paxton and the Democratic hopeful James Tallarico is incredibly close.

35:32So actually, huge gobs of money from Elon Musk could make a difference. They could. I mean, if Ken Paxton wins, we will, yes. We all know that it was Elon's money. It will be a Musk election. And so that kind of, I suppose, sort of makes it worth, I mean, what is$300 million to Elon Musk anyway? Nothing. It's absolutely nothing. The man has more than a trillion dollars, right? So this means nothing to him, except it would be useful if he gets all sorts of tax allowances or whatever in Texas where he has his business. I mean, it's an incredible distortion. Let me just point out that he doesn't really have a trillion dollars.

36:18He has actually now less than a trillion dollars because the stock has declined in his companies. And were he to try to get his money out of his companies, they would collapse. So he doesn't really have that. But he has a lot of money. My God, he has a lot of money. Well, he has enough money to give 300 million in the midterms and for it not to make any difference to him whatsoever is the point. Exactly. And if that is, then if he manages, if Paxton wins, then it is a Musk win. There are no questions, hands down. So and also Paxton very well may be the hinge to holding the Senate. So therefore, it would be Elon Musk holding the Senate.

37:07So again, a great deal of power based on a great deal of money. And it's unusual. I think it's unusual to see this amount of money. Of course, there are the Edelsons, who are huge donors to the Republican Party. But we're used to people spending money on themselves trying to get elected. It's unusual to see someone spending this amount of money to get other people elected. Actually, it's unprecedented for someone to spend this amount of money. We have seen billionaires spend significant amounts of money. But no one at this level, this is three, four, five times, what we have seen from the rich's sons of bitches.

37:56So we're in just this new level of political spending in which money, you know, and I mean, you see this thing that money creates its own power. And it can't be, you know, it can't be, it doesn't respond to democratic politics. You can't you know, you're not going to even if you defeat it, even if Ken Paxton is is defeated. Nevertheless, Donald Trump owes Elon Musk, owes him three hundred million dollars. And some way Elon is going to going to extract that three hundred million dollars. Well, and we've seen again the power of him with Starshield, his Starlink satellite, as it were, that is providing early warnings for Ukraine and that this week got switched off.

38:59So the Ukrainians didn't have advance notice of incoming Russian missiles, which were phenomenally effective when they came in sweeping through residential areas and killing dozens of people. and you see the Europeans getting together and saying we have to do something about this because it's it's clearly not right that one man one company has so much power in a place like Ukraine and they're you know I mean it is it is again this is one of those structural things that no one has quite accounted for and figure out what happens when one man controls so many resources. And, you know, the Musk story is part of a greater story because so many other people in the last generation have become so much more wealthy than anyone has ever been in history.

39:59And it's not just one or two people. It's a whole class of people. And what do we do about this? I mean, that becomes a question, actually, I assume, one of the 2028 questions in the presidential campaign, that the Democrats will, which they should address. Their problem, of course, is they have their own set of billionaires. I suppose that's true. But the American oligarchy, as it's really developed in the same way that Putin is surrounded by his oligarchs, and Trump has been physically surrounded by them, we saw that at his inauguration for Trump to have an enormous amount of power on social media platforms on shopping platforms.

40:55I mean, if you think that you have, you know, Sergey Brin, one of the founders of Google, you have Elon Musk, who's got Twitter, you have Mark Zuckerberg, who's got Facebook and WhatsApp and Instagram, you realize the disproportionate amount of social media power and communication power and defense power. But having said that, I mean, the tech guys were with the Democrats the last time around. Well, the tech guys are expedient, right? They're going to go with whoever has the power. Well, that's the problem with money. Whoever has the power, and it really is not whoever has the power, it's how best to leverage their own power.

41:36But anyway, I mean, this is not a problem that we're going to solve this morning. Well, and James Tallarico has raised an enormous amount of money. He's raised, I think, at least$80 million at this point. So there is money pouring into Texas for him. Do you have any thoughts on his absence from the campaign trail? I mean, it was immediately seized upon by MAGA as a mental health issue. There was all sorts of false reporting that he'd holed up in a mental health clinic in Ohio. Well, I mean, we have no reason to believe that that's true, so no reason to even repeat it. Well, his own campaign said he had a bad case of flu, and because he's got diabetes, he was particularly impacted by it.

42:31And what I don't want to say, because then it reinforces these other things, is that that sounds like bullshit to me. but um it does sound a little like bullshit um you know you know i mean we've all had the flu you get out there you do what you have to do i don't know why he didn't do daily videos if he had flu just saying hey guys i'm really sorry this flu has knocked me for six i'll be back on the campaign trail in a week don't worry i'm doing everything i can to get back out there I don't know and again we now reinforce the the the No I don't think we're reinforcing it we're just saying it's unfortunate We don't know we don't know we have no idea we have no more information than that he had the flu We're just saying it's bad It's very bad timing to have to take a week off campaigning three weeks before the midterms.

43:37And you would hope that a candidate would be able to push through flu and carry on. But maybe he was advised by his doctor to rest. If he loses, it will be because of this, that week off the campaign trail. So that's a kind of small tragedy. By the time I hit my 50s, I'd learned a few things. Like how family is precious. Work can always wait. And 99 % of people over 50 already have the virus that causes shingles. Not everyone at risk will develop it, but I did. The painful, blistering rash disrupted my life for weeks. Don't learn about your shingles risk the hard way. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist today.

44:23Sponsored by GSK. Interesting. Very interesting. All right. Well, there are some other specific races we were going to get into. And I'm still recovering from watching Troy Jackson burp during the debate with Susan Collins. Susan Collins definitely looks older, but Troy Jackson. We have an interview with with Terry Moran, who spent some time with Troy Jackson tomorrow that runs on the Daily Beast channel tomorrow on YouTube. and wherever else you get your podcasts. And, you know, Terry talks about him as being authentic but not polished. And he wasn't sure he was polished enough to beat Susan Collins.

45:09Well, yeah, I mean, that's the question. And the question is a larger one, really the question for everybody in these difficult Senate races. How unpopular is Donald Trump? and he's going to have to be very unpopular for Susan Collins not to be reelected because she has been so frequently reelected. And I guess people in Maine are accustomed to voting for Susan Collins. I mean, you know, I mean, that's confusing to me because because certainly it's a it's a certainly she is has become a an important piece of Trump's strength. that while she talks about her independence from Trump, she falls into line when she has to, when she's ordered to.

46:21Well, Troy Jackson made the point that she had voted with Trump, I think, 98 % of the time. She said that he hadn't counted all the votes and she'd only voted with Trump 72 % of the time. Nevertheless, she voted for Brett Kavanaugh, extremely unpopular among Democrats, That's especially because he was the deciding vote on Roe versus Wade. I still think she's going to win. Well, we will see soon enough. If only Graham Platt and I hadn't had all those issues, he was just a much more compelling speaker than Troy Jackson. Troy Jackson, fifth generation logger, but unimpressive and uncharismatic, almost anti-charismatic, which might work in Maine.

47:08It might work. We'll see. If only he hadn't had those issues. If only Joe Biden had been 20 years younger. If only, if only. If only. They're two words that haunt politics the most, right? Do you have any thoughts on al-Sayed versus Mike Rogers? So Abdul al-Sayed, an epidemiologist. I mean, there's every reason to think that al-Sayed should be unpopular. On the other hand, he's a very compelling candidate. And Mike Rogers is a very unimpressive candidate. So what does that sway? I mean, who does who then? I mean, let's let's I mean, I think the dynamic would be as as follows. You have a very compelling candidate who for most Democrats, there will be at least at least some key things that they would disagree with Al-Sayed about.

48:24So how do you reconcile that? Do you say, you know, well, Donald Trump is the most important thing is to vote against Donald Trump. So we vote for al-Sayed, even if we're holding our nose. You know, that's a difficult one. It's not impossible. And again, again, the question is, how much do we detest Donald Trump? How much do we see Donald Trump as the problem? So any other problem, you know, Al-Sayed's position on the following issues, which many Democrats can't abide, but how much stronger is Donald Trump seen as a problem rather than Al-Sayed's? positions on quite a long list of issues, actually.

49:21Right. Obama went in to support him too, which may have helped him. But he's certainly gone from a candidate that everybody thought he's never going to bring Michigan with him to, you know, a much, much tighter race. I have friends in Michigan who don't think it's possible for him to win.

49:41Well, it is possible for him to win. So whether he will win or not, We don't know. But right now, that is a very, very close race. I mean, all of these races. So the Senate is still in, I mean, hangs in the balance. The race in Alaska, where Trump went to try to support one of the Sullivans. We don't even know which Sullivan. Yes. Dan Sullivan, who is the incumbent, was forced to put his middle initial on the ballot because he's being challenged by a local teacher also called Dan Sullivan, who I think is Dan J. Sullivan, but is running as Dan Sullivan. So the incumbent has had to add an initial to his name.

50:34and he is running against Mary Patola and who I think it's probably, well, again, it's one of those things. Kenji is very possible that she will win. It is very possible that Jackson will win over Collins. It is very possible that Tallarico will win over Paxton. Very possible Al-Sayed will win over Rogers. and in Ohio, Brown over Houston. Was that how you say that guy's name? Husted, I think. The one that Donald Trump was kind of drooling over this week. He had a very strange outburst about him. He was like, I was looking at him. He's great. I looked at his ass. You're like, what are you talking about?

51:2580-year-old man, stop. Stop talking like this. I mean, he was trying to zoom in on the fact that Husted is a former athlete. But nevertheless, it was peculiar. So all of these races are there and they can, it is very possible that the Democrats can win most of them. It's possible that the Democrats can win all of them. And then does the world change? And I guess it sort of does. Well, I wonder, and if they do win, it's because everybody is united about Donald Trump. That's the singular thing that people are voting against him. But on the other hand, they could lose. There is a lot of money. I mean, just look at this.

52:18If this is the Elon Musk elections, if they lose, it's partly because of Musk. Yeah, partly because of Musk. And there's also another Senate race going on in Minnesota, which seems to flip the script. And actually they're largely because of the fraud in Minnesota and because Tim Walz has gone from being Democratic darling and the kind of guy with a hunter's jacket who was the vice president candidate saying, you know, had his brief moment dismissing the Republicans as weird. he's now become a disadvantage for the Democrats, I think. And there's a very tight race there between the lieutenant governor, Peggy Flanagan, and a former sports commentator, Michelle Tafoya, who's pretty agile on the debate stage, actually.

53:12I mean, that well looks as if it could go towards Michelle Tafoya. I don't know if you saw any of that debate, but she's a tough, agile debater. and Peggy Flanagan feels very more of same, which hasn't particularly worked in Minnesota because of all the fraud issues. And just as a little promotion, we will be live on election night. Joanna Coles and I in the studio doing, we don't know what we're going to do. Well, we're going to go inside Trump's head. We're going to be trying to figure out what you're going to be telling us. what's happening with Trump on election night. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, we're going to be...

54:01We're not going to have a magic wall. We're not going to be doing any of that. We're going to have a couple of drinks. In fact, you have to tell me your cocktail of choice. What will your cocktail of choice be? Is it a martini?

54:13No. What is your cocktail of choice? Well, I hate to say this. It is sparkling water. sparkling water do you not drink at all anymore no just given up i sometimes do but not very much well i know you don't know i don't drink enough i don't drink any wine that was the slippery slope for me how slippery well you know there's a full bottle and it's got to be consumed okay so all right so no no so i i actually do not drink wine anymore after a lifetime of of pleasure so do you not drink what is your alcohol what do you drink white wine no i don't drink any wine okay so just spirits sometimes spirits sometimes i will um And my wife has a scotch usually, and sometimes I'll take a sip.

55:14But it really has been, over the last number of years, a retreat from, I hesitate to say, youth. Okay, well, you are not going to have a cocktail, Ben, on election night. I think I might need to. Maybe you'll convince me. Well, I do think a tequila gimlet is very refreshing on a large rock, which keeps it cold, but doesn't dilute it too much. I've now got it down very specifically to a tequila gimlet. One will last me through the evening if you sip it slowly. anyway that's where we're going to be in the daily in the daily beast studio trying to figure out whether or not elon musk's money has distorted the election against the democrats he's also got the capability of pouring much more money in yeah i suppose on limp i mean it really is an extraordinary development in in modern politics i mean people have been talking about the the effect of money for a long time.

56:24But I don't think they ever really got to the point of talking about the effect of unlimited money. I mean, of money. I mean, money for Elon Musk at this level. It just has no meaning. So therefore, why not? The Washington Post has a list today of all the people who've donated to the ballroom. It was supposed to be a secret list, but they got hold of it. And it's worth having a look through for those of you with a subscription to The Washington Post. And as we've said, the paper has gotten much better recently. I think one of the reasons is it's news stories have become much shorter. There's much less waffle and much less padding and just they get to the heart of it and you're out of it.

57:13But it's very noticeable.

57:17Yeah, I don't have a view on why it is better, but it is better. I mean, it's more exciting. It's more on the job. Well, I think it's since Will Lewis, the former CEO, left, actually. I was sitting next to a reporter from the Washington Post last week, and he thought that was the change ingredient here. and I would imagine that probably Jeff Bezos is is paying attention to the mood of the country and thinking well no I actually work with Congress no I actually think that he's he's probably lost interest so he's less on the case here it is less and it is more about you know yeah you know do what you do do what newspapers do.

58:11And it is best on, the Washington Post is best on what it has always been best on, which is covering Washington. And I think under Will Lewis, because he was afraid of what Bezos might want, although he probably was unclear about what Bezos wanted, kept pulling punches on this. And the stories became, you know, just less crisp. Less crisp. Well, no one can accuse you of not being crisp, Michael. Well, I'm trying to think what to make of that. I could accuse myself. I think I've been... I think this morning, this morning I've not been as crisp as I might like to be. Well, I can always clear that up in editing.

59:05Well, it's crisp autumn day. We should get out there and march through the leaves. Before we do, I wanted to give a shout out to David Litt. David Litt is a former writer for Obama. He used to write the White House Correspondent speech and he posted his own version of a limerick, sort of limerick, except it's to be sung to the music, the melody of Candle in the Wind. And it seemed to me she briefed the room like a candle in the wind, never knowing how to read stuff without faltering. And we would have liked to have mocked her when she showed up on TV, but her tenure lasted less than one half a Scaramucci.

59:52You know, I think our Garfield is better than that. I think to be fair to Garfreed, he did actually post a limerick after Thursday's episode, and I forgot to make a note of it. So he's not been slacking at the job. Michael, I will see you in person in LA on Tuesday. We don't see each other before? Is that possible? I don't think so. I might see you at the airport. I might see you at the airport. Are we on the same flight? I don't know. I need to find out. At any rate, perhaps we will speak before. If we are on the same flight, we could do an impromptu episode of In Trump's Head, 36 ,000 feet in the air.

1:00:39Okay. Jesus. That might be kind of fun. I bet people would start pelting us with bread rolls. They just want to be left to their flight in peace. Yeah, it could be. I mean, we don't speak to a lot of Trumpers, I feel, but perhaps on a random flight, we would encounter people who actually like Donald Trump. Perhaps we're going to need bodyguards. Michael, I will see you whenever I see you. And I thought I would read Ari Emanuel's book on the flight out there. You inspired me. His book, Roll the Calls. Great. Good. I'll speak to you. Just in case he shows up. I will be able to tackle him on it. Thank you, everybody who makes this possible.

1:01:28Ryan, John, Heather, Rachel, and Neil. Thank you. So the good news is we have so many B-beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support.