This Is How Idiot Trump Is Being Played by China

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1:10Only the best for you, Mr. Shaq. Hey, have you always been so big, tall, and handsome? Not always. I was 6 '10 once. Seven days to love it or return it, Mr. Shaq. Not that I would. You never do. No, I never do. So buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply. See our seven-day return She is essentially issuing a kind of threat to Trump. Trump who has no real position, no real ideology, no real background. He doesn't care. Let's just flatter each other. They must understand, because it's obvious, that you can move Trump as a matter of language. You can get him to make a mistake very easily.

1:56With Donald Trump, of course, because he can barely, you know, has a vocabulary of 300 words. She is trying to suggest to Donald Trump a new language which would then be beneficial to the Chinese.

2:16Michael. Joanna. Here we are again.

2:24episode 170 of Inside Trump's Head, where we go to try and explain what has turned out to be a government of one. Correct? Correct. And you are Michael Wolff. You've written four books on Donald Trump, but essentially you spent the last 10 years inside his head. And I think it's fair to say he's inside yours. You know, what happens when he leaves? Well, don't let's worry about that right now. Because, yes, that is not going to happen anytime soon. It's not going to happen. And as you've said, what will happen after he leaves the White House, assuming he does, and Steve Bannon was out yesterday saying he's definitely going for a third term.

3:12Steve Bannon is, and let's just say Steve Bannon is one of the great, well, he's one of the great gas bags of all time. Although I like Steve and Steve is always, always smart. But what he is saying there is Trump will go for a third term in a metaphorical sense. Okay, so he's going to set up his alternate administration at Mar-a-Lago. Yes, he will leave the White House, leave it with billions of dollars that he has extorted from corporate America, set up a counter White House in Mar-a-Lago, which he will love because this is great for him because he doesn't actually then have to do the work of being the president of the United States.

4:08And he just gets to draw attention from whoever becomes the president of the United States, therefore becoming clearly a rival or often it might seem a replacement president. OK, good. Well, we can get into more of that this morning. We've got a lot to get to. I'm Joanna Coles of The Daily Beast. And Michael and I will be appearing live at the Teragram Ballroom in downtown L.A. on October the 20th. So please come and join us if you're in the vicinity. And you can go to beast.pub slash ithlive. That's beast.pub slash ithlive to buy your tickets or go to Ticketmaster. But we would love to see you come and meet us.

4:59And I think there's a meet and greet available and we're looking forward to getting into it. And Michael will promise you that he is even wilder, when he's not within the confines of a podcast. I would say more precise. You're more precise. You're more precise. Okay, well, we have a lot to be precise about today. We've got She's Visit, which we need to unpack. We've got Melania's launching of a female network and my efforts to join, which have come to naught. We've got a fascinating story about the privatization of American diplomacy in the form of none other than our favorite character. I think it's fair to say she's certainly in our top 10, Michael.

5:44Kimberly Guilfoyle, the former Fox News anchor who was once incredibly married to Gavin Newsom. I mean, what a story. And now she's found a very close Greek male friend who is helping her as she develops business ties in Greece and in that part of Europe where we have, well, oddly, we have almost no ambassadors other than Kimberley Guilfoyle, who viewers and listeners will remember was also the fiancé of Donald Trump Jr. And then, And of course, Donald Trump Jr. recently got married to Bettina Anderson, daughter of a former financial advisor to Jeffrey Epstein. And their wedding party was paid for by a Russian oligarch.

6:34Donald Trump has said they have to pay him back. But who knows if they will? And let me just interject that Kimberly Guilfoyle and Donald Trump Jr. bought a$10 million house in Palm Beach, which precipitated a raging argument between father and son. Hardly an argument, really. Father yelling at son, where did you get this money? Where did this money come from? Can you remember what Roger Ailes ever told you about Kimberly Guilfoyle? Oh, of course. Not only did we speak about Kimberly Guilfoyle rather often, but Kimberly Guilfoyle was on the plane, Sean Hannity's plane, that I took down to Roger Ailes' funeral.

7:22And I think I've pointed out before that Kimberly Guilfoyle was without, and this is my wife spotted this. I did not. My wife did without a particular article of clothing. I think we described it as going basic instinct. Yes. Every day, your personal information is exposed somewhere online. Your email address, your financial details, even your health information. It's not about being careful anymore. It's about the hundreds of data brokers who collect and sell your data without your consent. But they can't harm you if they can't find you. And that's where Incogni comes in. Incogni automatically sends removal requests and follows up across more than 420 harmful sites, helping get your personal information removed from places you may not even know exist.

8:25Incogni can find where your information appears online and recurring removals help keep it from coming back. You can also track your progress, get monthly risk assessments and reach 24-7 live chat support. To get an exclusive 60 % off an annual Incogni plan, go to incogni.com slash beast or click the link in the episode description. That's incogni.com slash beast. Well, we will come on to that Wall Street Journal piece later because it's a fascinating deep dive into what Kimberly has been up to. And indeed, as Donald Trump pointed out, the very good looking young man that is helping her. And many people have thought was her chief of staff.

9:11And in fact, of course. We'll come to this. We'll come to this. Yes, he's an obvious. All right. All right. We'll come to it. All right, Michael, she's visit. Let's discuss. You know, I mean, it's kind of fascinating that Donald Trump loves these visits. He loves putting on the writs for whatever foreign leader. I think it's probably one of the high points of what he does as president. But it's completely removed from what he's supposed to achieve as president. In other words, you do these summits, these summits are and this is all a cover for what goes on in what we don't see. So here we see this, we see the dinners and we see the celebratory aspects of this.

10:09We see the pageantry and that's a cover for what's happening behind the scenes. What's happening behind the scenes here in Donald Trump's world is nothing at all. I mean, it is. In other words, the less point there is, the more he loves it. So so it doesn't you know what he gets out of this is just the show. There will be no advance in our relationship with China, no true understandings, no lessening of tensions or no clarifying of the issues between us. None of that will happen here, at least on our side. I think on China's side, on Xi's side, they will have, this is probably all that they are doing.

11:09The pageantry is irrelevant to them. What they are doing is triangulating Donald Trump. And, you know, I've had this described to me by White House people of what happens when he goes into these meetings. Now, the background of these kinds of meetings is that it's really hard work. You know, you get briefing books. You have all of the various the various constituents in the government who have issues that they want on the table are presented. It's a it's a difficult moment for any president because you you I mean, you're the guy and you got to know what you're talking about. If you don't know what you're talking about, you know, you're giving away the store.

12:00So, I mean, it's kind of like what can you compare? I mean, it's sort of like merger negotiations between big companies. And if you're the CEO, you have to represent the interests of your shareholders. And it's also you're representing your own interests and the return is going to be in dollars and cents. Well, the return here is not in dollars and cents, but it's certainly – well, sometimes it is in the trade relationships between nations. But it's also a matter, obviously, of security. It's a matter of what the the the global the complications of global of global diplomacy cause and effect. I mean, this is the the world changes.

12:55The world turns on these kinds of kinds of meetings, not with Trump. Trump goes into these meetings. He can't he he he refuses to look at the briefing books, refuses to have extensive conversations about about the issues at hand, doesn't care, I suppose, doesn't know what he's talking about. It's all I can handle it. I'm good. He is always saying, I'm really good with this. And then he goes into these meetings. And all it is is flattery, him flattering the other side. And the other side, I think, very clearly taking an understanding what they can get by this.

13:46and I'm trying to circumvent using the word buffoon, but I think that's what they see him as. I think they're like, oh, my God. Right. Oh, my God. So who would traditionally brief Trump? Is this something Marco Rubio would say? Hey, listen, there are a couple of pointers you need going into Xi. Don't say this. I mean, there's more than a couple of pointers. There's weeks of preparation that are necessary here. There are, yes, Marco Rubio, but then the State Department would bring an enormous amount of other resources to bear on this. But if Trump is an information phobe, as you say, then how do they how do they slim it down?

14:36How do they whittle it down to the one or two points? And I'm assuming it's really about trade with Xi and maybe about Taiwan. How do they slim that down so he's got two things in his head when he goes in? Oh, that's what they do instead. But that's, you know, they give him they give him two points. You got to do this and this. And even that usually doesn't register with him. I mean, this is something I don't think I don't even know how people you can get people to appreciate this. How do you get people to appreciate that the presidency is is has a the workload of the presidency is extensive. And if you don't do it, if you adamantly don't do the work, can't do the work, what happens?

15:27What's the effect? That's really hard in that's really hard to make clear to to to voters and to the American. I mean, first, it's incredible. So he doesn't do the work. He can't do the work. The president of the United States does not know what he's talking about in these situations. How do you begin to explain that to people? And within the White House itself, they have had the people within the White House have to have to explain it to themselves. What do we do here? But that becomes for for for them a kind of, well, it's it's it's Donald Trump. You know, he's been elected twice. He must know what he's doing.

16:14And I think even parts of the country, perhaps a large part of the country, falls back on that kind of thinking. When the reality is nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. And years from now, or not even years from now, I think we will start to see the effects of this. Why did this happen? How did this possibly happen? And again, the background here, remember, he became the president in 2016. A primary part of his platform was the existential battle between the United States and China. And he was the only one recognizing that, the only one who wasn't bending to the prospects of what we could gain from China's great wealth.

17:10and what has happened in the 10 years since then is that China has just become stronger and stronger and more and more dominant. And if in this existential competition with the U.S., it has moved into the, I mean, I think virtually everyone regards this as not if, but when they supersede the U.S. as the central world power.

18:05upfront payment of$45 for three-month plan, equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. Default terms at mintmobile.com. Okay, so I have a question I've been dying to ask you. When Xi is at the state dinner and he's giving his speech, he says that he hopes that America and China don't fall into the Thucydides trap where the challenger power basically provokes the traditional power into a war. And Hugh and I discussed this on the Daily Beast podcast yesterday. But what I wanted to ask you was, do you think Donald Trump understood what she was saying?

18:50Do you think he has any idea what the Thucydides trap is? Do you think he's ever heard of this Greek general slash historian? Well, I'm not sure that that's relevant anyway. I think from, I mean, the important thing to understand is what is she saying here? And she is essentially issuing a kind of threat to Trump. And it's a warning. I mean, it's a warning basically about Taiwan. That's that's the only issue here. I mean, it is it is it has always been the central Chinese issue with the with the U.S. And, you know, Trump, for all his bellicosity, really likes to get along with these guys. So that's what he's saying.

19:48We can get along. We can get along if you somehow, if you don't press the Taiwan issue. So and and again, that interesting thing about Trump, who has no real position, no real ideology, no real background. He doesn't care. Let's just let's just flatter each other in an ideal world. That is what happens in with Donald Trump. So if you're the president of Taiwan and you wake up on Friday after the state visit where Xi has said to Trump, I want you to adhere to the correct position of opposing Taiwan independence. What is happening there? Is this China getting closer and closer to a potential invasion of Taiwan?

20:40One, we know that there are no American aircraft carriers in the South China seas, that the mismanagement by the Pentagon. Well, just cut to this. Yes. I mean, is she feeling around about how stupid Trump is, how unconcerned Trump is, how unserious Trump is and what is their advantage there? And that's going to be an estimation that they will make in which Xi is going to go back to China, or as I'm sure it's already begun. And they make essentially, essentially they are profiling Donald Trump. And they will also have a view about is there a level of dementia here? Is there a level? What's the age factor?

21:34How has that affected Trump?

21:39And ultimately, does he really care about Taiwan? So and then this other thing is that they're pushing this is they must understand because it's obvious that you can move Trump as a matter of language. You can get him to make a mistake very easily. I mean, the entire Taiwan relationship with Taiwan and with China is all about language, about these kind of precise words that we use. And that defines the situation. And if you veer from those words, then the situation becomes less defined to someone. And we don't know whose benefit that either to China's benefit or to our benefit. But it's that is all about those words used.

22:39Now, with Donald Trump, of course, because he can barely, you know, has a vocabulary of 300 words, it is Xi is trying to suggest to Donald Trump a new language which would then be beneficial to the Chinese. So what is the ideal here for Xi in terms of Taiwan? Because presumably they would rather have Taiwan return voluntarily to the Chinese fold, something which seems highly unlikely. But I'm sure looking at Russia, thinking it could go into Ukraine and tie that up in what four or five days is what Putin thought they were going to be able to do four and a half years later, there's still nowhere near a resolution with Ukraine.

23:28And in fact, Moscow got bombed heavily this week. When you talk about language, is there some way that Xi is trying to appropriate Taiwan without actually having to involve the military? Well, I mean, in an ideal world, sure. But I don't really even think that it's, this is sort of all about standing at this point. They want to, the stronger their position is with regard to Taiwan, and we're not even talking about invading or taking over Taiwan. We're just, we're talking about their relationship to the U.S.'s relationship to Taiwan. If the U.S. looks less firm in its defense of Taiwan, that redounds to the advantage of China and to Xi.

24:30So in a way, we're not talking about anything here. Everything stays the same. But it is a matter of how this is represented, how this looks, what advantage China can claim. So if you're Xi and you're going back to talk to your team today, which I'm sure they're spending all weekend debriefing on the trip, what are you saying about Taiwan, do you think? Trump doesn't care. Trump's not going to give us any trouble. They've already removed the last remaining aircraft carrier. They've got no munitions left. Well, I mean, on one hand, it's, yes, what if we attacked Taiwan? What would the Americans do?

25:22But that's a war game scenario. I mean, that's a scenario. It's going to be more like, what advantage can we get right now? And that's an advantage, which is really, that's a perceptual advantage, really. And that's what Trump, that's what they can get out of Trump because he doesn't understand the nuances. So China is seeing this as all about nuances. And Trump is a man who wouldn't know a nuance if it... If he was married to one, if he was married to one, I thought that the Chinese, to your point about them having really paid attention to Donald Trump, that they probably have been listening to your analysis of Donald Trump and Melania Trump's relationship.

26:08And when you saw the two couples walking up the National Archive where Donald Trump took Xi Jinping into the archives, you saw the Chinese leader and his wife holding hands. And I will say the Chinese leader doesn't look that much more firm than Donald Trump. He also looked like he was clutching onto his wife's hand to help him both up the steps of the National Archive and down the stairs of the plane when he arrived. But they were clearly symbolizing that they were together as a couple, whereas Melania was walking as far to the red carpet as she possibly could to the edge of it. And at one point, right at the beginning of the visit, Trump actually sort of veered off, I think, to his left and she was pushed off the red carpet.

26:57But when they walked up the stairs as two couples, Melania very clearly kept a distance between her and Donald Trump and didn't hold his hand. There's a nice piece in the Times today by Roger Rosenblatt, a longtime journalist, I mean, for my entire career, who's now firmly, deeply into his 80s. And it's called the piece is titled, I Want to Hold Your Hand. And it's about him, the joys of still holding his wife's hand, but acknowledging that one of the reasons that they hold each other's hands in public is so not to fall down. I will remember my parents occasionally did that. My mum called me one day and said she'd fallen over in the garden.

27:49My father had gone to help her up, given her his hand, and she'd promptly pulled him over by accident. They were both lying on the grass, unable to get up. But anyway, so I'm just saying to Roger Rosenblatt, you want to be careful there because you don't want to go down if someone's holding your hand. I do find it odd the way world leaders hold hands with their spouse. I do think it's peculiar, actually. It's such a strange, almost childish gesture. And you think you're supposed to be among the most powerful people in the world and you need to hold someone's hand. It's odd. It's odd. But nevertheless, Melania doesn't want to hold her husband's hand.

28:28and Natalie Hart was nowhere to be seen, by the way, this week. I didn't see her at the state dinner, though I did briefly mistake her for Ivanka, who looked identical. Well, we can be rest assured she was there. Somewhere in the background, hovering in the background. She is always there. She is always there. There's not a moment. There's not a circumstance. She is baked in. Well, I'm sure she's printed out all sorts of pictures of him looking statesman-like at the big dinner. What did you think of the guest list of the endless tech CEOs who now seem to swarm Trump at these events? You know, have they no shame?

29:13I mean, it's almost incomprehensible. We are so rich that, I mean, it's Putin-like. So all of those Russian oligarchs got fathomlessly rich, rich beyond all imagination. and yet were in the position that they had to suck up Vladimir Putin. And so I guess it's the same as these guys, fathomlessly rich, and yet they know that it all, at least for the moment, is contingent on Donald Trump. Unless they like him, that is not possible. Well, they may like each other and they may like to hang out with each other at the White House, right? This is all about your cohort. Or they may be paying attention to each other.

30:08They may hate each other. But if one goes, then the others have to go. They don't want to be left out. But why? I mean, you have all of this money and all of this power. Why are you still beholden to something? Because if Donald Trump believes the last person he says, and if Sam Altman whispers in his ear, listen, open AI should be doing government deals, not anthropic, maybe that gives open AI an advantage. You know, I'm sure it does. I mean, a momentary advantage until someone else speaks in his ear or as long as he remembers what you said to him. Still, nevertheless, do these guys, Bezos, Musk, Zuckerberg, Altman, do they really think that this is going to redound to their credit in the near-term future?

31:11I mean, Donald Trump leaves this veil of tears, either the White House veil of tears or the actual veil of tears, fairly soon. Do these guys, or do they not care? Yeah, I answered my own question. Of course they don't care. Or is there some part of them that thinks, I cannot believe I'm sitting here with the President of the United States at the White House because I grew up, in Jeff Bezos' case, I was an adopted boy. I grew up in Florida. And here I am at the fanciest table in the world. I mean, they're no different to anybody else being excited to walk into the White House. I mean, you and I both say it never gets old walking into the White House.

31:58And for these guys, it's the same, right? Just because they're wealthy and they've got successful companies doesn't mean they're not excited to be there. Well, they've been there many times before. So you would have and they are being played. I mean, they're they're being played here as props. So why they I mean, I don't see in the end what they get out of this. I mean, yes, maybe they get something out of this this week and they get their pictures in the paper. Um, and, and these are all, and I mean, I think you can say these are all people who have, who have some serious, serious insecurities, serious personality defects, serious, um, um, uh, inability to see beyond their own billions at any point in time.

32:46I mean, and of course, these are the people who are who who I mean, like like Donald Trump, who we are dependent on for our our safety and security and and and the the the well-being of our country. We're also dependent on these people, absolutely people who clearly we should not be dependent on. So I think this is a larger story of the creation of an oligarch whose interests are not our own. And that's the signal that they are sending. You're listening to a quick ad. You know what else is quick? Selling your car on Carvana. Just put in your vehicle information and we'll give you an offer. Done.

33:34No hassle. No negotiation. No guy from an online listing lowballing you. Which means, by the time I'm done explaining this, you could have basically done it.

33:48Still haven't started? Hey, better late than never. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply. Well, Melania was sitting next to Elon Musk, and I'm a bit disappointed you haven't paid attention to my outfit this morning and noted that I was giving a nod to Melania's bow. I'm wearing a business jacket like Melania has favoured recently because I thought, you know what, I'm going to join Imperia. I'm going to join her female network about ownership and empowerment for women. I've spent a lot of time in that space. But sadly, I found it impossible to join. You're directed to Melania.com, her website, where the opening gambit is a Christmas ornament for$90.

34:38I went down to Imperia and it's simply a press release saying that she announced it, but there's no way to join it. There's no way to connect with other people, which is what she promised. So I'm coming around to the fact you may have been right that it's all actually meaningless, Imperia. In fact, next week I will... Yes, there is no Imperia. There will be no Imperia. I'm going to call the New York Stock Exchange next week and find out if they have some way of helping me join because I feel I would like to become a member. And I have noticed what you're wearing. We match, actually. You might have noticed.

35:13We do match, black and white. Or you're wearing brown, right? You're wearing brown and I've got gray pinstripes. No, I'm wearing black and white. Oh, you are wearing black. Okay, so you look like a Supreme Court justice this morning. in a cardigan. In a cardigan, a black cardigan. Looks very good. So yes, anyway, if you want a $90 Christmas ornament, Melania.com, the first lady is selling them. You can get a copy of her book and we'll see. I can't wait for her television series to see if Imperia features heavily as her network, non-network network. If anybody else has managed to join, please let me know and perhaps you can take me as your plus one.

36:00I'm just chuckling about the further upcoming Melania documentary series. It's going to be such fun. Paid for by Jeff Bezos, who was obviously at this dinner. Of course. And I've still got my popcorn bucket from her documentary, which I keep to put... Well, what's in there? Actually, nothing's in there. A bit like Imperium. Nothing's in there. All right, we must come to the Wall Street Journal story about Kimberly Guilfoyle, because it is magnificent. It really is about this thing that we've talked about before, the businessization, the privatization of American diplomacy. We know that over 100 ambassadorships are still empty.

36:49And into that void have come Jared Kushner, Steve Witkoff, and now we've got Kimberley Guilfoyle hustling as fast as she can in Greece and clearly having a very good time. I mean, this entire Kimberley Guilfoyle story, which which, which tracks the Trump, much of the Trump administration. Um, but it also, it predates the Trump administration, which is also an interesting thing, but a, a, a character of such avarice, such uncomplicated avarice. I mean, we're going back to a 19th century British novel, Vanity Fair, Becky Sharp, the most famous, um, the most famous character in, um, in literature without scruples, without morals, without second thoughts, without shame.

37:39Without conscience. Yes. Gimme, gimme, gimme. And this is the Kimberly Guilfoyle story. There is no subtlety to it. And the interesting thing, of course, is that she begins her trajectory, her public trajectory, as the wife of Gavin Newsom. So we're going to have to come back to that because Gavin Newsom is obviously running for the Democratic nomination for president or will likely run for that. And I'm not sure how he will be able to explain being married to one of the most avaricious people in the Trump universe. Now, let's understand this. one of the most avaricious people in a gallery of the most avaricious people who have ever walked the earth.

38:38Well, you can also track her physical trajectory. When she was married to Gavin Newsom and when she was a lawyer in San Francisco, she had a very kind of natural West Coast look. And over the years, I mean, when they got divorced, she went to work for Fox News and became bombshelled, I suppose you would describe it as. She was a dark Roger Ailes, dark-haired bombshell. Just let me interrupt because as I understand the trajectory, she first came, she got out of the marriage and then came to New York. This is somewhat before Fox News. And and in fact, I knew people at New York Magazine where where I used to work, women at New York Magazine who who became very friendly with with with her.

39:35And because she was, you know, New York Magazine is quite a quite a New York liberalish place, which she was at that point. And then she got this job at Fox News. Roger Ailes hired her because, I mean, Roger had two interests, two primary interests in terms of women, that he considered them hot and that they were lawyers. For some reason, this was... Well, like Megyn Kelly. Hot lawyers was his particular sexual interest. That's very specific. If there isn't already hot lawyers on OnlyFans, there should be. There definitely should be. Or maybe that's something Kimberley could do when she finishes being an ambassador, assuming that the Democrats, if they win, don't keep her on.

40:33Right. And it was a Trump thing, you know, that, you know, during the campaign when Trump was during all of his trials and his four criminal indictments. And then he had he had he would show his he would show pictures of his lawyers and and he would say, you know, my lawyers may I'm you know, they're not the smartest, but they're the hottest. So I don't know. Maybe this is a taste that many men have. At any rate, Roger Ailes hired her at Fox News, and she instantly became a Fox person. I mean, I remember the people at New York Magazine were like, what happened? What happened to, people call her KG?

41:21and no one quite knew what happened to her except that she saw where the wind was blowing. She saw where the wind was blowing. She may have been ahead of her time in seeing where the wind was blowing. And then she left Fox under something of a cloud, right? She's, as far as I can tell, the only woman who has been seriously MeToo'd. And yes, so she was she sent around. She was a dick pic sender or a dick pic forwarder or or maybe I don't know what whatever she was doing. she got in trouble for. Also, she was accused of harassing her assistant, a male assistant, and got fired. We should also point out that she had her Anthony Scaramucci moment.

42:18And then, of course, she went on to Don Jr. Don Jr. And then she was bested by Bettina Anderson. She was engaged to Don Jr. And of course, who can forget her at the RNC in her, I want to say, red dress, yelling for all she was worth, the best is yet to come. Ladies and gentlemen, leaders and fighters for freedom and liberty and the American dream, the best is yet to come. And then there was a moment in which she told people that Trump, who was then the president, had tried to move on her. So father and son. Yes. Oh, my goodness. This is in my books. So I think that this is in my second book. So, Kimberley claims that the president also found her attractive.

43:21She did. And the president was fairly vocal in the fact that he may have found her attractive, but he didn't like her. He may have not liked her because he was rebuffed by her, if he was rebuffed by her. Okay, well, there's a fantastic description in the Wall Street Journal of Trump saying, I have to get her out of here, which is why they made her ambassador. And in fact, when they announced it, Greek news outlets quickly dredged up critical remarks that she'd made of Greece. And actually, I'm going to quote here. As a Fox News co-host during Europe's debt crisis in 2015, she said that Greeks needed to be trained like when a dog pees on the rug.

44:11And she says, it doesn't matter if you make great yogurt. I don't care. And President Trump told people he had offered Guilfoyle the ambassadorship for his son's sake, saying, I had to get her out of here. A White House official obviously denies that the president said that. The subtext of this article in the journal is that she has been promoting the career of somebody who actually the journal was unable to actually describe the nature of this person's career. But she has pushed him into a significant negotiating role in the efforts to get a set of European countries to decrease their reliance on Russian oil and to use U.S.

45:05natural gas, I think. Christos Marafatsos, who appears to be ubiquitous wherever Kimberley goes, he goes. People assumed, according to the piece, that he was her chief of staff. In fact, he's a lobbyist for a Greek construction company that's managed to hustle its way into the new energy situation, given the problems with Russian oil. And as President Trump called out, I think it helped. That company, they seem to imply, has a dubious set of bona fides when it comes to both oil and their position in this negotiation. Well, Christos himself has dubious bona fides. At some point, I mean, he was born or lives in, was based in Maryland, now seems to be spending a lot of time in Greece with his new colleague, I guess is the right word.

46:03But at one point he was distributing produce to restaurants. So he's also got a somewhat checkered career. I think it's fair to say he's emerged as a lobbyist. He's whipped up earnings for himself of at least half a million dollars and is helping Kimberley negotiate. There's a great bit here where it says that Greek officials are very happy that their country, which has often been overlooked in Washington, now has someone who's got close proximity to the Trump family. But they're also fearful of getting on her bad side. Who wouldn't be? And in March, I'm going to quote here from the piece, in March at a dinner in Athens attended by Greek and U.S.

46:46officials, Guilfoyle got into an argument with Greece's energy minister, Papa Stavrou. in front of other guests. Referring to the impending collapse of the Romanian government, Guilfoyle told the group, we can do that to any country we want. We can do that here. And then the conversation obviously became heated with the Greek energy minister saying, actually, the US couldn't replace the government of Greece. The government of Greece was actually elected by the people. She's obviously throwing her weight around. I don't think you can appreciate what a nightmare Kimberly Guilfoyle is. I mean, it's like those things.

47:30And part of the, a thematic part of the Trump administration is the inability to appreciate exactly how extreme, how bad, how outside of all expectations and imagination so much is. So you can't appreciate, it's impossible to appreciate how unprepared Trump is when he goes into absolutely significant meetings, meetings on which so much depends. He's completely unprepared. And it's impossible to defend to, it's impossible to understand how someone like, in this instance, Kimberly Guilfoyle, but we can go down the list of other people in the Trump administration, how craven they are, how unacceptable in any kind of civilized company they would be.

48:36Well, there's also a very interesting paragraph in the piece that reminds us that when Kimberley was engaged to Donald Trump, she immediately started setting about trying to set up businesses. And she pursued a line of business ventures, including hair care and fragrances that she called Flore de Maga. Yep, Flore de Maga. So if you want to smell like Maga, you could have bought her products. Champagne ventures with names such as 1776 Liberty and Liberty Dreams, and then a pet pharmaceutical service called Patriot Vet. Get it? Patriot Vet. Anyway, those trademarks have, unsurprisingly, since been discontinued.

49:21So you can, the lesson here is that you can have, you can have, if not anything, you can have really a lot if you absolutely have no scruples, no restraints, no shame, no yen for basic respectability at all. I guess. And there's one moment as well where Kimberly is back in D.C. and she's got Christos Malafatsos, somewhat unfortunate name perhaps. And the president calls him out and says he's a very good looking guy. So he has a sense that this is an unusually close working relationship. Let's just say that. I'm sure they would deny they were having an affair. But it's an unusually close working relationship is what the Wall Street Journal piece is hinting at here.

50:21Anyway, run, don't walk to read it because it really is fun. And let's just again, Kimberly Guilfoyle is not going to go away because we have the Gavin Newsom chapter of this, which will make a return as he runs for president. Well, and it might put Gavin Newsom. I mean, can you imagine? Gavin Newsom must have read this thing last night when it dropped. I'm sure he got a heads up that it was coming. And he and Jennifer Newsom, his wife and the mother of his four children, must have been just sitting, you know, mouth agape reading this piece. But he might find himself, were he to be elected as the Democrat president, having to fire his ex-wife.

51:03having to remove her? Or do you think he would say, you know what, she's got such hustle, we need her, let's leave her there? Well, I think it could be also from her point of view. I mean, she apparently left him because his career was not proceeding fast enough. And if she had stayed with him, she might have ended up as the first lady. It's so fascinating. It's so fascinating. So she goes from Gavin Newsom over a couple of other people. And I think I remember telling you that I had run into her at a dinner party once in Connecticut where she was with a guy. And I said, oh, what does your partner do?

51:41And she said, he is the best selling Porsche salesman on the Northeast of America. When was this? This would have been, I guess, maybe eight years ago, 10 years ago. Fantastic. Yeah. Great. Anyway, that was a moment. And, you know, she went from Newsom to Donald Trump Jr., got bumped from Donald Trump Jr., and then Newsom may ascend the Trumps altogether. Oh, yeah, yeah. Be careful what you wish for, Michael. Be careful what you wish for. Starting a business can seem like a daunting task unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website to marketing to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need.

52:34There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz, and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your$1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer. Why don't we segue to the media here from Kimberly Guilfoyle, segue to the media and then out of the media. But let's segue back into the media. Is CNN banned or not banned? I'm a little confused. I'm very confused because Timothy Kelly, a Trump-appointed judge, ordered the White House to reinstate the press passes of CNN, MS Now and Politico, said that the White House had essentially trampled on their constitutional rights.

53:26But CNN then, I think, announced today that it wasn't invited. It was their pool day today and they weren't invited on Trump's trip to a football game, I believe, in Tennessee. On the plane. So they were not allowed on the plane. Yeah, they weren't invited. Right. So I'm assuming that the pool ban continues. And then we got fits and starts of coverage from Xi's visit. But so it's going to, I mean, this is, I mean, what's going to, we know what's going to happen here. Nothing is going to happen here. And CNN will be back in place eventually. And all of the other networks will be back in place. But Trump will push this out.

54:07So he's got another news cycle out of bashing CNN. Now, what I'm wondering about is when CNN is on the verge, and I think this will take place in the next couple of weeks of being owned by a Trump ally. CNN will be owned by the Ellison family, Larry Ellison and his son, David Ellison, who have taken over Paramount and CBS and who are now on the verge of, and I think the way has been cleared so that they will they will imminently close on the deal to take over Warner Brothers Discovery, which is on CNN. So what happens at that point? Now, what happens in terms of Trump's regard for CNN and also what happens internally at CNN?

55:02Now, this deal has been held up by the attorney general of the state of California. Rob Bonte. And 13 other AGs, actually. He wasn't on his own. He was taking the lead because obviously it's a California business. Right. But I mean, he's the pivotal player there and he is the one who basically folded and he folded last week, week before before last. And and, you know, with some minor kind of concessions among the concessions is that there would be an editorial board, I think, for for CNN to help preserve CNN's independence. Now, anybody who has followed the media industry for any period of time knows that these kinds of boards or these kinds of concessions and soft agreements are nothing.

56:06They just go away. They were kind of all pioneered by Rupert Murdoch who would agree to them and then instantly ignore them. Well, do you remember Facebook put in a board which made almost no sense? It was an international board that was supposed to adjudicate on issues. But, of course, all these issues arise in real time. And you can't assemble a board fast enough to get them to make a decision if you're covering a big news event or if there's something going on. A board is kind of almost pointless in that situation. Yeah. And in the Murdoch situation, he would just literally ignore them. um it it and and in his case and that was with the times of london it had as they say the force of law he had to agree with the i mean that was an agreement he made with the government forget about it didn't it didn't um um it meant nothing so that will be the situation of course at cnn and um and i think we're all i mean we will begin to see and then in the in the relatively near future.

57:16What happens at CNN? What do you think is going to happen at CNN? Because obviously you've got Barry Weiss, who founded the New Press, a sort of lively right-wing newsletter. She gets catapulted to be the editor-in-chief of CBS News. She's had a very rough ride changing things around there. Is she going to be the editor-in-chief of CNN too? I think that hasn't been, that's not clear yet. So, and I don't think, I don't know what happens to the people within CNN. Well, I think that there, I think the latest I heard was that they needed, if they were going to merge CBS and CNN, which would surely make sense from a business point of view.

58:0810 ,000 jobs would need to go. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if that is, you know, if, I mean, the merger then would depend, the merger of those two organizations would depend, I would assume, on someone, on there being one leader of both organizations. And I'm not sure that that's clear yet. Well, certainly Cara Swisher, a fellow podcaster, has been saying that she doesn't want to stay at CNN anymore. She has no interest working for David Ellison. Is Cara Swisher on CNN? Is she on CNN? Cara Swisher is on CNN. She did a show about longevity. she did a series on longevity and i've been on a show that she does called table of five which is a show on saturday morning or she was temporary host i think for it i mean which is the other issue yeah which is the other issue of cnn nobody watches it um and i mean so this is one of the their ironies of this, of Trump and this, in this, in the current conflict with CNN and several other networks is that they are getting more attention now than they have in for almost anything that they do.

59:37I mean, this is, these are audiences which have dramatically shrunk over the last the last 10 years? Well, pretty much all television. The rise of social media, yes. Yeah, exactly. All television audiences have shrunk. But I think it's fair to say that the president's pretty obsessed with Caitlin Collins. And certainly people know who Anderson Cooper is.

1:00:03Yeah, well, they know who, I mean, and partly they know, I mean, Anderson Cooper has been doing this for an extremely long time. But he has, and he has left CBS. He was one of those people who left CBS because it had been taken over. Now he's at CNN and it is being taken over. So how will he react to that? We don't know. And Caitlin Collins has become famous because Trump attacks her. But he attacks her because, A, I think he finds her very attractive. He's always saying, you're a very pretty young woman. Why don't you ever smile? You never smile. Of course, she does smile. I know, Caitlin, she smiles plenty, just not when she's trying to elicit answers for her questions.

1:00:51Well, it'll be interesting to see what happens and whether or not Barry Weiss stays as editor in chief for both titles. I find it hard to believe that Mark Thompson, who's running CNN, would work with Barry Weiss. I mean, he was former director general of the BBC. He was the CEO of the New York Times. I just find it highly unlikely he would work with Barry Weiss. I think his paycheck is very large, his merger tip, you might say. His merger incentive. So I think that he could care less at this point. Well, interesting. And of course, there are two Hollywood memoirs out this week. We've got Bob Chapek's memoir out, explaining why he thinks he got fired from Disney as the CEO and replaced by his former boss, Bob Iger.

1:01:44And we've got Ari Emanuel's memoir. Bob Chapek's memoir seemed to have been, there was a bit of a spoiler story about it in the New York Times, which I don't know if you read by Brooks Barnes. I did read it. I mean, are you thinking that this was a Disney ploy to get Barnes to write about this? Well, what I'm assuming is that there was some sort of excerpt and the book was embargoed and the Times jumped the embargo because it seemed very much a Disney. it seemed to come from a Disney angle that this was Bob Chapek explaining that the system had basically moved against him while he was trying to deal with COVID.

1:02:33So you found this a more favorable story, I guess, a more favorable story to the Disney perspective. I saw it as coming from the Disney perspective. I read it. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I thought it was actually probably good for for Chapek in the book. It means that, you know, that that thing when somebody is is breaking embargoes, that means it's newsworthy. And that means it's, you know, it kind of builds some heat. But I I don't I don't know. I mean, the thing I found curious about this book and I haven't read the book, the book yet, because I don't have an advance. a broken embargo copy of the book, but is that Bob Chapek would be surprised by what happened to him.

1:03:24This happens to virtually everybody in these companies. And the fact that he did get to be the CEO for a few minutes is kind of like, well, this shouldn't have happened to me. It really happened. There's only one guy, if that guy. Often there isn't. Often there are no survivors. At the Disney company, Bob Iger has been a longtime survivor, but that's always been nip and tuck for him. The CEO before Bob Iger at Disney, Michael Eisner, was not a survivor. The CEO before him was not a survivor. You know, why should Bob Chapek be different than anyone else? You know, this is what you get for your hundreds of millions of dollars.

1:04:26And then you get to write a book about it. Of some cases, billions of dollars. What you get for that is, well, humiliation. Do you think anybody will read the book? I know. What about Ari Emanuel's book? Do you think anybody cares? Well, I don't know. I mean, Ari... Ari is the super agent, we should just say. Ari, who I know very well and who I've worked with before, has literally been on every podcast, talk show, outlet. There is nowhere that Ari hasn't been. And it's very easy for him to be on all of these particularly shows because he has represented all of the people on these shows. Will that mean that this book sells?

1:05:18You know, I'm not sure. I mean, first thing, you know, even the role of agent, the role of media has so changed. So the idea of media moguls with Bob Chapek sort of, I guess, hoped he would be. And Ari Emanuel as a super agent. And this is, these roles have so changed, been so diluted, been so rendered so much less interesting than, that I don't, you know, I don't know. Is this a story that people are attracted to? I don't know. I kind of doubt it. Well, Ari Emanuel is certainly a very colorful character. He's more colorful to read about than, I think, Bob Chapek. And Bob Jacob had the extreme misfortune of taking over, what, a month before COVID hit?

1:06:10And he'd run the Disney parks and then, of course, all the parks shut down. So I don't know if anybody could have maneuvered out of that. And, of course, Bob Iger, who ousted him to come back for a second go at the CEO job, Ben himself got eventually ousted after a less than glorious second innings, I think you could say. are we going to read these books i i'm definitely going to read both of them i'm going to skin them as you say i never read a book i skin them i'm going to skin them for the interesting bits okay because there's always padding in these books there is always padding in these books i will have to um um i i mean i so uh so ari's book was written by a very co-written or ghost written by a very famous ghost writer.

1:06:58Yeah, J.R. Moringa. Yes, one of the best in the business. I'll tell you what I have read. I have read J.R. Moringa's memoir, which is very good, very good. It's about how he basically grew up in a bar in Long Island. Of course, he wrote the book Spare, Prince Harry's book, which went on to be, I think, the, well, certainly when it launched, it became the best-selling memoir of all time.

1:07:28well, we'll see if Harry Emanuel's memoir becomes the best-selling of all time somehow. Well, I'm sure he will tell people it's the best-selling memoir. He was briefly, I briefly worked with him and I found him terrifying. Every time he called, I would get a knot in my stomach. And I thought, I'm sure this isn't the way that you're supposed to feel when your agent is calling. and i think he's yeah i mean i i i speak to um ari now and then and he calls me somehow always just before i'm going to sleep um of course um and then it's kind of like a burst of a burst of energy a burst of venom a burst of something of which you don't get get the opportunity to even respond to.

1:08:16He does the burst, then he says, love you, and then hangs up. And then you can't get to sleep for the next several hours. Well, because he's dyslexic as well, he does that thing where he just calls all the time and he has people. And actually, when I was looking for his contacts in my book the other day, I realized I had like seven different email addresses for his various assistants, because there's always an Ari assistant. They don't have separate names. They're just like assistant to Ari, Ari's assistant, Ari assistant, you know, each email slightly different. But he's fantastically energetic and entertaining.

1:08:51And he always has a party the weekend of the Oscars, pre the Oscars, which I've been to a couple of times at his house. And it's just packed with stars, packed with stars. I remember watching Ben Affleck playing pool in the in the basement. and he was the least famous person in the room. Ari bought my book, Fire and Fury. And there was a moment when Fire and Fury came out. You mean he bought the rights to your book? Because we all bought your book, Fire and Fury, but you mean Ari bought it differently. He bought it for somewhat more money than you did, yes. And he was going to represent the book.

1:09:39So Ari is not my agent, but he is always telling me he is my agent. And then at that moment, it became actually advantageous, I thought, for him to, in fact, be my agent. And so we were trying to set that up, and he agreed to be my agent. But then he called back 10 minutes later and said, I don't want to be your agent. I want to buy the book. And and that was like my my my lawyer was part of this discussion. That was like, what what do we do? And so my lawyer named a monster price for the book and said we would do the deal if the money was in the bank in 24 hours without any paperwork. That sounds very Russian of you.

1:10:37And the money was in the bank in 24 hours without any paperwork. There was subsequent paperwork. And that was it. And then the movie never got made. So what's happened to the rights? Did he buy the rights in perpetuity? Perhaps you could buy them back. No, they lapse after seven. It has been seven years they have lapsed. Okay, so Michael, it's time. It's time to do Fire and Fury. Well, you know, you might have noticed that it is not so easy to get Donald Trump projects off the ground. Well, we should wait till after the midterms and then see if people are. Perhaps you could go to the new David Ellison massive media company and suggest that they...

1:11:26Yes, perhaps. Opens up all kinds of avenues for... Well, I think part of their deal is they have to make 30 movies, right? They have to make 30 movies. So maybe Fire and Fury could be one of them and it will be them showing their independence. Do you think? I think Ari should get on the case. Ari, if you're listening, get on the case. All I can say is that whenever he called, I would immediately get a knot in my stomach and feel terrified. And I'd be like, I'll call him back, I'll call him back. And then, of course, he would have rolled on and probably forgotten whatever he wanted to talk to me about.

1:12:05But he was the model for the brilliant Jeremy Piven as Ari Gold in Entourage, a series I absolutely loved. And when I arrived at Marie Claire and they asked me what kind of an assistant I wanted. I wanted Lloyd, who played R.E. Gold slash R.E. Emanuel's assistant, who was a continually harassed assistant, but always got the job done in the end. I think you could have been a cutthroat agent. I would love to have been a cutthroat agent. Never dawned on me, but I love journalism. Journalism is so much more fun. I would have always crumpled at the last point of negotiation, I think. When people say they love journalism,

1:12:46I'm skeptical. Really? I've always enjoyed journalism. First, I'm skeptical of anyone who uses the word journalism. Oh, for goodness sake. You're a journalist forever. No, I'm a writer. I'm a writer. Whatever. Whatever. The point is, you're writing about interesting people. Journalism is about writing, too. I don't know. I think you missed that turn in the road. Cutthroat agent. Cutthroat agent. Well, maybe it's not too late. Probably is too late. Nobody needs an agent anymore. They just produce their own content. They produce their own content. Michael, we've covered a lot of ground. You have the rest of the weekend.

1:13:20I can hear your children in the background. How did the visit to the pumpkin patch go last week? Very well. A lot of, they brought back bushels of apples. Oh, fun. Bushels of apples. That's a very country thing. And are you in the middle of the nor 'easter? Yes, no. The rain last night was torrential and there are limbs of trees all over our property down. And what about your roof? Has your 1829 roof withheld? We're very dry, yes. You're very dry. Well, that's the key thing. I live on the top floor of a loft building in Manhattan. And when it's this rainy, I'm always terrified that this is the moment when the leaks start.

1:14:05So you mean to say you live in the penthouse? I don't think of it as a penthouse. I don't think of it as a penthouse. It's funny. People don't use that word as often as they do. When I first came to New York in the 1970s, people were always, oh, come to my penthouse. Yeah, it's a very 70s word, isn't it? Maybe because it was associated with the magazine or something, but I never use the word penthouse. I just say it's the top floor. Anyway, anyway, we will be back, God willing, on Tuesday, if you haven't been blown away, like Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz by the Nor 'easter. Keep your feet on the ground, please.

1:14:43And who knows what will have happened in, I think, Tennessee, where Trump is going. And it's, what is it, 38 days to the midterms? 38 days to the midterms. So we'll be tracking where he's going to spend his next month. And the poor Republican candidates are saying, you don't need to come here. Stay away. Yeah, no. And let's get to that because The ground is really shifting on a day-by-day basis and shifting away from Donald Trump, of course. And if anybody knows how I can join Imperia, I've got the business suit. So just please let me know. See you on Tuesday. Thank you, one and all. Ryan, John, Rachel, Heather, Neil.

1:15:30Thank you. So the good news is we have so many B-beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out, and we really appreciate your support.

1:16:05He's still on the couch. Astonishing. Sell your car today on Carvana.com. Pickup fees may apply. Starting a business can seem like a daunting task, unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website, to marketing, to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz, and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your$1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer.