This is a stock picker's market

20:19Jack Bowman:Yeah, one's not covering the planet in data centers.

20:23Kenio Fontes:Yeah, it's inflation linked, but they are growing like the low single digits. So how can you trade it? Like 50 times earnings? Come on.

20:33Julia Ostian:Kenio, do you have a price target on Amazon or do you do price targets?

20:37Kenio Fontes:I don't do much about price target. It's much more based on margin of safety. So I like to buy Amazon on 200s. 220s, I think it's fine too. It can achieve an IRR of double digits in my models. But that's it. Lower the better. If I, of course, if Saturday's party booths, if I consider everything will be okay with Amazon, the lower the better.

21:04Julia Ostian:Any earning season takeaways, really from anyone, but specifically in the tech space? Kenio, I'll stick with you for a second. Anything that you took away from this recent earning season?

21:15Kenio Fontes:Yeah, about CapEx, it stands out to me. Apple is a different one. I think we all have something to comment about Apple. It's just, I think it's strange how Apple is sticking to its cash flow. Like, I need this cash flow. I need to buy back. And in the other hand, why Apple almost is showing to me like they have nothing to invest on, nothing big. They're not developing some real chips, some self-driving cars like Amazon and Alphabet is doing. They're not on a data center business. They're not on the LLM business. They're on the buyback business. So I would like to see Apple depending less on this engineering.

22:02Kenio Fontes:But at the same time, I think what Apple management, what Tim Cook is saying that I'm not saying. Is he saying it's all FOMO? I'm not participating on this AI race, nothing related to LLM data center, nothing. I'm sticking to my buybacks with the 3 % shareholder yield. And that's it. So I feel like it's a good discussion.

22:27Jack Bowman:Apple has this genius strategy, right? They reduced their CapEx by 20 % last year. No need to spend on data centers. Everyone else will do it for us. Then they enter this deal with Google, right? A billion dollars a year. to lease Gemini to replace Siri's thoughts. And Google's spending way more than a billion dollars a year to run Gemini. So I know that Apple's getting their money's worth, right? Spend no money, reap all the reward, pay a little bit later, pay some service charges, and it's working out for them so far. Yeah.

23:02Julia Ostian:Yeah, and also if we think about this in this way, if, for example, AI proves to be a boom and bust and bust afterwards, right? Like if we all wake up one day and realize that it was all for nothing, like metaverse, although I don't think it can be. But in general, if that happens, Apple has a very, very high chance of being the strongest stock in the market and the stock where everyone will run. And in general, if you want to diversify away from AI, you have a Mac 7 that basically has no exposure to this whatsoever. So you can look at this this way. although I don't buy Apple stock myself.

23:41Kenio Fontes:Yeah, I don't like Apple either. I mean, I like the company, but I don't like the valuation.

23:46Julia Ostian:Yeah, I really like the company. I have everything here is Apple. Like if you come to my heart, like everything, everything.

23:53Kenio Fontes:Yeah, same here. I have an iPhone, an Apple Watch, everything. But I don't like the stock.

23:59Julia Ostian:I remember reading an article in the New Yorker a bunch of years ago about a private school in New York, and the kids were like, Apple owns us. Apple owns all of us. just everybody has Apple products Julia, anything you would add to the earnings takeaway conversation from the tech space? Going into NVIDIA's earnings I think it will be really interesting the market looks nervous the market looks excited but worried at the same time which basically surprises me because I don't know, with NVIDIA I guess from what I've started, I've just broken down NVIDIA's earnings today, I wrote the preview so i have a fresh thoughts on this it really looks like doesn't matter what nvidia will do the market will not be as happy because it looks to me that the company so many time times have beaten the expectations that basically right now the expectations is that everything will be better than expected but the problem is that this phrase can stretch basically limitless right what is better than expected.

25:05Julia Ostian:Anything can be better than expected. It can be slightly better than expected. But if Nvidia will deliver instead of$65 billion,$70 billion, I'm not sure the market will be very happy because Nvidia usually beats like$3 to$4 billion. So yeah, I'm just curious to see what will happen because the market is down a couple of percentage points one day, and then everyone is excited about what the Fed will say about the rate cuts like today, for example on Wednesday and the market is flying so I don't know I'm just curious what will happen and I'm sure Nvidia by the way will post a great quarter and I think the whole year looks really good for Nvidia right now with the cup expanding most of the cup expanding will go to Nvidia one way or another so I don't know I'm just curious to see what will happen and I really think the stock can go lower on the earnings even with the bid.

25:59Kenio Fontes:I kind of agree with Julia and I think that the outlook for the next quarter may be better than the market expect but because of these huge CAPEX. So I think in the short term 2026, 2027, maybe 2030 it will be very bullish to Nvidia because even Amazon is trying to reduce this dependence on Nvidia chips. Same for Google. it's not that short term they can't just produce a new chip to their cloud business in 3 or 5 years so I think it's still bullish in the short term but the long term will be a little more of uncertainty

26:40Julia Ostian:Jack, anything to add to this part of the conversation?

26:43Jack Bowman:NVIDIA is always an interesting business to me because they have such high profit margins like 70 % on their stuff because they don't actually manufacture their own chips right as tsmc does the actual making of the chips nvidia designs them and then they sell the completed units once they've paid tsmc to actually manufacture them so this leaves them in a space where improving the product doesn't necessarily always like hurt them in in in the cost to make it because the manufacturer shares some of that cost which allows nvidia to have these times where it's like they spend all this money on on r &d right they were down last quarter a little bit because of this crazy R &D spending on this new chip that they had to produce.

27:22Jack Bowman:It takes a lot of money to get it up and running. Now we've had a quarter of it running. And I think now we're starting to see NVIDIA turn back into the cash machine. So I'm also bullish going in. I see them beating. The Rubin model chip has been doing very well in its deployment in data centers, as limited as it is from what I can hear.

27:39Julia Ostian:What else would we add to the tech part of the conversation, AI or tech adjacent or tech related? Any other insights?

27:47Jack Bowman:I think there's a consideration that investors should have in the current tech space in very much splitting hardware and software. And even among people like NVIDIA, who is, by all means, people would say, a hardware company. But even splitting between designers and manufacturers, that we're starting to see this kind of dichotomy between software and hardware. I expect us to see a continued dichotomy between producers and designers as well. I'm not as bullish on producers of chips as much as I am on designers of chips, AMD, NVIDIA, maybe not so much Intel. I just sold my Intel shares a little bit ago.

28:23Jack Bowman:Why is that? So, well, I bought them in the government dip. When the government bought up Intel, everyone says rock bottom, I bought shares. So I was up 150 % over six months. And I looked at the valuation. I looked at the fact that nothing had changed. The CEO in his earnings call kept saying, well, there's this crazy demand. There's CPU demand. And, you know, we can't fill it all because we just have so much people on our ships. And then they immediately reported like a lower than expected sales figure. I was like, oh, that's a big red flag to me. Like saying we have unlimited demand and then not being able to show me that you're meeting unlimited demand is not a good sign for me.

29:01Jack Bowman:So I left. But I also had a crazy trade of like six months. I was up tremendously in the position and I thought too much risk now on the table.

29:08Julia Ostian:Last week I talked to Tech Contrarians and we were talking about AMD and NVIDIA and there were a lot of comments about the pairing of AMD and NVIDIA going forward. Anything that y 'all would say about AMD? I really like MDI. I have this stock in my portfolio. I don't know. I'm holding. I think this market is huge. I think going forward, this market will definitely have the space for not only two players, but more players. And actually, NVIDIA's mode is not only the designing of the chips. It's mostly the ecosystem, which companies cannot simply turn away from. It's the CUDA that it has and everything.

29:50Julia Ostian:Basically, all of the infrastructure has been built on this. So it's not easy just to produce as, for example, for hyperscalers, the new chip and just adopt it. And that's it. And we move on from NVIDIA. It's just it's impossible. So NVIDIA will say and I think there is definitely place for AMD on this market, because as we've seen, NVIDIA sometimes hits the cycles where it simply cannot satisfy the demand that there is. And in those exact situations, I think AMD could be nice to cover for maybe smaller companies, maybe some other segments of the business, maybe not hyperscalers, but I see definitely space for AMD there.

30:30Julia Ostian:And I myself hold for a pretty long time. I bought the share of this company at a pretty cheap price. I think it went down to like$70 or$80 per share. So I'm just happy to hold it. And I don't know, I don't see a big threat for AMD here. I think this company will slowly capture the market share. Of course, it's not growing as NVIDIA does. But at the same time, I'm not sure it should be growing the same way. It doesn't have the same infrastructure and so on.

31:03Kenio Fontes:I have a few AMD too, but I have some concerns about the company, mainly in the short term. As Julia said, it's not like NVIDIA. It's not the same infrastructure, same ecosystem and all. But I think 2026 will be the year that AMD has to prove itself. It has to capture demand. It is growing, but it needs to grow more, mainly in the data center revenue. They need to increase their margins and prove, okay, we have some pricing power. Not like NVIDIA have, but we also have some pricing power. And also about SBC, the stock-based compensation is just too high. So we see it's 30 times earnings forward.

31:43Kenio Fontes:But if we consider the SBC is 40 or something near that. So I think AMD had to prove itself in 2026. I think it's a good company with good prospects too. But they have to prove this demand, the pricing power. and also that they can have this operating leverage with the SBC, growing less in revenue.

32:06Julia Ostian:Jack, anything you want to say about the FOMC minutes coming out today or macro speaking? Anything of note?

32:15Jack Bowman:So the Fed is in this really weird limbo right now. And I think the minutes are going to show us a divided Fed, one that is more divided than normal, but is still leaning toward the institutional, we should wait and see. And rate cuts take a long time to filter into the economy. So we did a couple of cuts and now we're going to sit and wait. And they're still in agreement with that philosophy, but it's changing. We're introducing more and more participants like Governor Moran, who really wants rate cuts. And every time they vote for a cut, he votes for 50 points. And every time they vote for a hole, he votes for a cut, right?

32:53Jack Bowman:And so we're seeing more people agree with him and take his stance that we should be lower than where we are now. I don't think they're going to lower until June. But a lot of it has to do with where the macro goes in terms of like unemployment. Unemployment's peaked. It was at 4.6%. Now we're down to 4.3%. But if it comes back up again, that's a threat to the economy. So the Fed will have to act sooner. I don't think we'll see anything until June. I think we're going to have to sit and wait to get any action until then.

33:24Julia Ostian:Appreciate that. What would you guys want to get into right now? What do you think is most deserving of attention these days?

33:29Jack Bowman:I think to Kenny's point earlier, and just to kind of reiterate this to people, we are in a stock picker's market. The year to date, the average stock in the S &P has outperformed the S &P, which is rare in our markets that are just MAG-7 driven. The last 17 years, that has just not been true for the most part most of the time. And that's true right now. So right now, I think there's a lot of opportunities in some of these beaten down sectors that are now getting some love. But to be cautious, because I don't think, and I still don't think, it's a full rotation forever. Like, I don't think growth is dead and value is the new driver of the market.

34:10Jack Bowman:it. But in the meantime, while the market's still figuring out this AI deal, while we're all still on the cusp about what the Fed's going to do next or whatever, there's some opportunity like chemicals have been going crazy. And like I was never an investor in Dow chemical or anything like that. But recently I've been looking at these charts saying that these look much better than in any of the time that I've ever been an investor.

34:32Julia Ostian:What are you looking at in the charts specifically? What's showing you that?

34:35Jack Bowman:So a lot of it has to do with where the volume is, is we're actually seeing some of this rotation has legs to it in a way that in previous markets, like with small caps, I was saying this like, you know, small cap stocks, a lot of it's technically driven. I can see that there's not a lot of volume increasing as the price is jumping up dramatically, which is telling me that there's other things going on behind the scenes. But some of these value stocks like LYB and Dow are the two big ones that I've been following in the chemical space that have had a lot of actual momentum behind them from real traders of actual volume of people genuinely rotating into the stocks.

35:08Kenio Fontes:Yeah, I think FOMO is an important thing to say here. I think we should avoid FOMO. Like Jack said, we have seen some rotation and us individual investors, we don't need to buy gold right now. We can just stop and buy some cheap stocks we want. I think the micro, the internal factors of companies matters a lot too. So I'm not buying tech sector or software companies i'm buying companies i like i'm buying some amazon i'm buying some uber stock i'm buying some brookfield so i i think this too just these two things matters a lot say what companies are really doing this their their prospects and avoid the fomo yeah i think that actually each of us

35:54Julia Ostian:had these moments like for example i in general i covered the tech sector but about a year ago about half a year ago i went and bought bristol myers i haven't even covered it and i never told this to anyone because it's just it isn't me right i saw the opportunity and it's like a dividend stock that i never buy pretty much for myself for the dividend and here it was also not for the dividend but still since then the stock is up nicely and i'm happy and i mean i think every each one of us has speaks like this and we've even discussed this uh with jack at one point that It would be nice to share our portfolios, but I think they get messy sometimes because we have some peaks that we are maybe not that we're not ready to share them.

36:41Julia Ostian:It would be difficult to explain why did we add this exact peak to our portfolio in this exact moment. So, yeah, but definitely looking at the sectors like this would be very interesting. And I would really like to learn more about the chemicals. if Jack can write an article about this, I would be the first reader of it.

37:03Jack Bowman:I think the one last thing I have to say about this is like among stock picking, and especially for those people who are kind of bargain hunting in software right now, which is where I'm at, of like to Kenio's point of like, I'm not buying IGV, the software ETF, too much risk for me because I don't know what's going to get disrupted or not. And I want to look at the micro level. And I think the analogy that I heard that has really stuck with me here is that there's two kinds of software companies. There's like road builders and tollboots. Road builders are these companies that produce dashboards.

37:35Jack Bowman:They're just made for humans to use as a tool, right? And then CRM is one of these, right? Salesforce is one of these companies that's considered like the biggest road builder. And then you've got tollboots are companies that provide databases and tools that are bot callable for AI to actually use in their workflow. These are not replaceable because the AI actually needs them. So even if you replace your human knowledge workers, you'll still need these tools. MongoDB is one of these. Palantir, very notably one of these. And these companies create a moat with their software that you don't if your software is just a tool for humans.

38:15Jack Bowman:And so that's how I've been thinking of splitting up stocks in the software sector of are they a road builder or a toll booth? Which one of these? And the road builders, I think, are going to get killed. I don't know how they recover if the AI narrative is correct and AI tools will replace a lot of knowledge workers. Of course, if that's wrong, then Salesforce is at the greatest sale of a century. Right.

38:38Julia Ostian:Joe Albano from TechCaché was on unbelievably like two years ago. I can't believe like 2024 was two years ago, but he was on talking about the AI tiers and like similar to what you're saying, just putting companies in different slots and understanding their part in the ecosystem. And it's developing in real time. It's not like a stagnant thing, but it is, I think, a very helpful way to look at and think about AI and how it's moving, how it's shaping up, and what the heck it's doing to all of us. Kenio, do you ever go to Carnival? I know today was the last day of Carnival. Do you ever go?

39:15Kenio Fontes:Yeah, I didn't go this year, but last year I went with my girlfriend. it's very packed here in my city so usually I just go a few hours or a few minutes just to see but it's just too packed for me

39:30Julia Ostian:When I look at pictures and videos I'm like wow that seems so overwhelming but I wonder what real locals think of it and is it like Times Square or is it like something that is magnificent to behold?

39:42Kenio Fontes:Yeah it's a huge huge party almost everybody likes it but it is overwhelming I think it's very overwhelming I think you can't see that from a picture you have to be there and be like with I don't know maybe some thousands some couple of thousands people around you and say come on how can I how can I go to the next corner it's just too difficult so it's almost claustrophobic but I bet the

40:14Julia Ostian:energy all along the way is like really quite something magnificent.

40:18Kenio Fontes:Yeah, it's insane. It's like huge, huge show. Some producers, I think it's how is his name? I think it's Calvin Harris. Went to Sao Paulo. It was a very, very, it was something. It was like millions of people, I guess. It's something already.

40:37Julia Ostian:Probably all should go at least one point in our lives. Jack and Julia, have you guys ever been? No, we actually have to schedule and go visit Kenya next year. Yeah, yeah, we should do a live event. We've made so many podcasts, so maybe we can streamline from there, from the carnival. I'm a fan of that happening.

40:55Kenio Fontes:I think everybody should experience at least one time carnival. So just to see how it is something different. I think it just doesn't happen in any other country. At least, I don't know.

41:10Julia Ostian:It seems very special and very specific to Brazil. It's like the perfect place for it. And yeah, it seems like something we should all experience at least once. To the portfolio question, I was curious, not to share like all of the stocks in your portfolio, but just curious in terms of, and this is like as we're ending the conversation, you know, is it like what percent is allotted to long-term holdings? What percent is allotted to short-term holdings? What percent are you invested in? What percent are you trading? if you would all like share that, I think it might be helpful for listeners just to get a sense of things.

41:45Julia Ostian:Kenny, I'll start with you.

41:47Kenio Fontes:Yeah, I think it's difficult to me because I just buy what I think it's good right now. So sometimes it gets a little bit messy on my portfolio, but I have some rules. I don't want to have 30 % of Amazon on my portfolio. So I have, I think it's 10 or 12. I can increase a little bit, But I wouldn't feel very comfortable to have much more than that. I think 80 % would be the long-term portfolio, not considering cash. I have a lot of cash just to buy on Zips. I think if we divide this, it would be like 50%, 60 % on equities, the rest cash and equivalents. so but mostly long term just one or two maybe some trade like Werner Bros I bought to as it was a deep value strategy and it tripled so I sold not a long term investing but it could be

42:50Julia Ostian:you know appreciate that Julia so for me it's actually also not easy to say because I have two portfolios and actually the first one I've started when I just started investing back in 2020 and this was straight ahead with my mother together we sold the apartment i am from ukraine originally so we sold that apartment in ukraine and i was like okay i want to take the part of the money like your money and my money and invest the summer and she was like well i'm not sure if that's such a good idea i've never done that before in my life so but anyway i don't know how she actually was brave enough to give me her money not only the my part my part so i started investing back then and that portfolio is actually very long term most of the stocks uh not most but i i would say a certain of the stocks i hold from 2020 and actually polentira is one of them from 2021 i yeah i bought it like five years ago yeah my average buying price is like 20 dollars per share so um yeah that's pretty nice my mom is happy by the way if you're worth wondering I love that that story ended well.

43:56Julia Ostian:That story almost never ends well. No, no, but I actually I've trimmed already so many times and I already got the money back and reinvested it. And actually BNY is in that portfolio as well. So this is basically this is the reason why I sometimes make purchases like this, because I have one portfolio that is for me playing around and buying weird stocks. and the other one is for like more serious companies and more serious stocks so there i hold i would say on average a year and maybe even more maybe even two years and i have another portfolio that i've opened not so long ago like a year ago and there i just play around and i turn around sometimes stocks in a couple of weeks even i buy and it skyrockets and i have to say i i have been lucky so far sometimes it happens that i make a peak and it just goes in the direction i said it would be so i'm just selling it immediately or trimming it and it just works for me this way although i have one lesson that i've learned just recently i've actually told on my youtube channel to trim the stock and i did not trim it myself because i forgot and this is and it went down, like seriously down.

45:18Julia Ostian:And it's actually a nice lesson to put for yourself stock prices when you buy, like targets or approximate targets for what price you would like to sell it for. If it reaches that point, maybe it's a good idea to trim that basically no matter where it goes from there. At least for me, it would be definitely helpful If I was more serious about it, I would definitely do that and make for myself a notebook where I would write a couple of words about the stock, why I'm buying it this exact moment and what I'm hoping to get and to which approximate price target I'm waiting for. Don't forget to follow your own advice.

46:02Julia Ostian:Jack, what would you share?

46:04Jack Bowman:So I'm a little systematic. 85 % of my portfolio lives in this like 10 ETF mesh that I've created. That's all just long term stuff. It's all broad basket. You know, I trade by asset class and not by individual names just to avoid the complexities of having to add micro back into it. Then about 15 % of my portfolio is risk on. I am worried about micro. I'm buying individual stocks. I'm taking positions in weird ETFs like SETM, which is the critical materials ETF that only invests in like copper, lithium and cobalt miners and things like that. So that's something that I would never recommend anyone to just sit around and hold if they didn't have any conviction in it.

46:47Jack Bowman:So I keep about 15 % for like, this is my conviction. This is stuff that I know about. This is stuff that I am actively trading often. Like that portion is where I bought and sold my Intel shares from and where I hold most of my individual stock positions. And then I don't hold any stock to the long term. I'm not a believer that in my timeline, because I'm not going to retire probably for another 25, 30 years, maybe longer than that. I don't know if I could ever pick a stock for that amount of time. I just, the micro changes too, too much in that amount of time for me personally. So I keep all of that in long-term ETF holdings instead.

47:30Julia Ostian:And ETFs across market sectors?

47:33Jack Bowman:Yeah. So I invest across stocks, both domestic, developed and emerging markets. I invest across asset classes. So I've got some precious metals in there. I've got some bonds in there. Notably, I'm very bullish on the long-term prospects of the 10-year treasury. So I have an ETF called RFIX, which is a call option on the 10-year. So it's like super leveraged and I wouldn't recommend it to anybody who doesn't have lots of convictions, but that's like a way that I can get good exposure to the 10-year treasury and things like that. So I try and hold across assets. The one thing I don't mess with is currencies.

48:13Jack Bowman:I have no currency exposure currently, just the dollar.

48:16Julia Ostian:because it's not something that you it's not one of your areas of focus so it's not something that

48:22Jack Bowman:you understand deeply would you say that yeah i spent a couple days at some point reading through like bank of japan uh like their version of the fomc and it was so dense uh and so full of like japanese financial jargon and it was so complex i was like i have there's no chance that i stand to get on to the same level I am with like dollar assets as I am with like yen assets or euro assets. And so I've just tried to avoid everything I have is like hedged to the dollar or has minimal currency exposure.

48:55Julia Ostian:So your ETFs are sitting there and you're basically not looking at them?

48:59Jack Bowman:Yeah, I let them do their thing. And I try to rebalance every so often. It's like usually every quarter or sometimes less than that if there's not a lot of action.

49:08Julia Ostian:And what's your longest term holding stock wise?

49:11Jack Bowman:My longest holding stock is Chipotle, which I bought 10 years ago. When I was a starter investor, I had never really done anything. And I got this advice, which I think today, as someone who writes about investments, it's like horrible advice. But someone said, go buy stocks in companies that you like. And at the time, I was really into picking up a Chipotle burrito on my way home from work. So I bought a bunch of Chipotle stock. I've done very well on that position since then. But that's just what happens when you hold stuff for 10 years. But today, I would never advise anyone to own Chipotle stock.

49:50Jack Bowman:But it's still sitting there in my portfolio. I can't make myself get rid of it.

49:53Julia Ostian:Do you think it's bad advice because there's a difference between the company and the stock?

49:56Jack Bowman:Yes. It's bad advice because it ignores valuations and it ignores what makes financial markets tick and just focuses on, is it a business that you enjoy? Oh, there's businesses that I enjoy that went out of business. There's businesses that I enjoy that flopped. You know, but I get the point. It's a Warren Buffett quote, right? Where he's like, I only buy businesses that have made me happy for 50 years or 25 years or whatever it is. And that's why he bought Dairy Queen.

50:22Kenio Fontes:I think a better quote would be, I think it's Peter Lynch. Like buy business, you understand. No, you like it, but at least you understand. I think it's better. Yeah.

50:31Julia Ostian:Yeah, I'm going to leave everybody with the final word and where everybody can find your insight, your analysis, perhaps your YouTube videos. Jack, we'll start with you since we just finished with you. Happy for you to share that with our audience.

50:45Jack Bowman:Yeah, I run a so I don't upload much to YouTube, but I run a newsletter every week called The Macro Obsession. So if you Google my name and The Macro Obsession or just The Macro Obsession, you will find it. I publish every Sunday. It's like a roundup of trends and other ideas in finance that I have every week. Kenio?

51:02Kenio Fontes:Yeah, most of my work is on Seeking Alpha. So just follow me on Seeking Alpha and you'll see every stock I talked about here, Uber, NVIDIA, Amazon, everything you'll find on Seeking Alpha in my profile.

51:16Julia Ostian:As for me, besides, of course, of my Seeking Alpha, you can contact me on LinkedIn. I sometimes chat there with followers from Seeking Alpha. They ask me questions and I usually answer it, although I never give advice, but I can share my opinion about whatever if it interests you. And I run the Market Monarchies YouTube channel. So you can find my videos there as well. Although I would say that on Seeking Alpha, I write like more frequently and there you can definitely find a wide range of companies and YouTube is like only some pics that YouTube audience likes. Appreciate it very much. Julia Ostian, Kenny Ofontes, Jack Bowman.

52:01Julia Ostian:Really, really happy to have you back on the podcast. And for followers or those that want to ask questions, feel free to leave us a comment. We hope to have all three back on at least once a quarter. So look forward to that. Thanks, everybody, for your time and deep dives. Thank you so much. Thank you.

52:21Kenio Fontes:Just a reminder, anything you hear on this podcast should not be considered investment advice. This is for entertainment purposes only, and you should seek advice from a licensed professional before investing. If you enjoyed the episode, leave a rating or review on your favorite

52:35Jack Bowman:podcasting app, and we'll see you soon with a new episode.