Kobo ReWriting Life - #40 - Building your Brand Using Instagram with Lauren Layne

0:06Lauren Layne: Hey writers, you're listening to the Kobo Rewriting Life podcast, where we highlight an episode from our backlist that will bring you insights and inspiration for growing your self-publishing business. I'm your host, Tara Kremen, director of Kobo Writing Life. This week, I'm highlighting an interview with Lauren Lane from 2019. Lauren demystifies author branding and explains how authors can find their own aesthetic. She also discusses why she chose to limit her social media presence to just two platforms and how she made these platforms work for her. And I will add a little caveat that naturally since 2019 social platforms have changed with Instagram now focusing a lot on video because TikTok is everywhere and huge.

0:50Lauren Layne: However I still wanted to highlight this interview because I think the core concepts about how an author can use social media for marketing are still really relevant. So I hope you enjoy. Thank you, Lauren, for joining us on the Kobo Writing Life podcast. Of course. Thank you for having me. Can you tell our listeners a bit about you and your writing journey? Sure. So I'm a contemporary romance author. I wrote my first book in 2011 and got my agent in 2012 and first book in 2013. So that's what, five-ish years now. And I've written probably 30 books since then. It's a lot. It was sort of a very fast, very intense journey.

1:27But yeah, it's been a whirlwind and I just love it. Like I can't, honestly can't imagine doing anything else. Can you tell us a bit about what a typical day looks like for you? Yes. So people always cringe when I say this, but I am a super early riser. So I get up pretty much every day at 5am, unless I'm kind of out of my routine, then it's maybe seven. I find I do my best work in the morning, especially my writing. That's always the first thing I do. I like to say, do the hard stuff first. And sometimes that is writing. So I usually do that. I don't have kids is the other thing that I'll mention.

1:59So I know that people with kids are always like, how do you do that? I'm like, well, I just have the dog. But it's nice because it allows me to basically write from maybe 5, 6am all the way to two o 'clock. And that's usually about when my creative energy when I'll switch over and I'll do some of the business stuff like email or talk with my agent or graphics or website updates, that kind of thing. Did you always wake up at 5 a.m. or did you have to train yourself? No, I don't really know what happened because my husband is the same way. He wakes up early. And when I was a teenager, I totally did the sleep to 11 as late as my mom would let me.

2:33And same thing at college, I always slept in. And definitely when I used to work in my day job, so to speak, I was one like I would snooze until the last minute. So I think it came about really once I started writing and like sounds so cheesy, but like when you love your job, I can't wait to get started. So I guess I trained myself. That sounds great. Yeah. I'm trying to be a morning person. I do drink a lot of coffee. I will say that. I mean, I could add more to my daily one cup. So they can see that you publish a lot of titles in a single year, maybe more so than many authors. Usually sometimes it's only one book a year.

3:11So how do you manage your time between writing and then also promoting your new titles? Because I feel like you'd be a planner, either like monthly, weekly, or yearly. How do you go about your publishing schedule? I am a big time planner. So the one thing I will note is I do have a lot of books, but actually they tend to get planned a year or so in advance. So like the stuff that I'm working on now is actually contracts I signed in like 2017, maybe early 2018. So a lot of that is just sort of something that I committed to back then. And it's very structured, but I always just, I mean, it's pretty simple for me.

3:43I keep the writing first. And if I'm behind on deadline, then no promo happens. I'm sort of on top of things, then, you know, I'll try to do some, like, you know, graphics or get on Instagram. But for the most part, for me, I never really try to balance those things. I just write until I absolutely can't write anymore or until I'm done writing. And then whatever's left over, I switch and I do the promo. Do you have any like apps or programs that you use to organize your schedule or just... I do. So I live in New York City and it's tiny. But one thing I keep going back to is the paper planner. Like I have to have it.

4:16So I use the paper planner to really track like what I'm doing each hour. That's huge for me. I'm forever trying to keep track of how I'm spending time. And then in terms of apps, it's so tiny and it's cheap. There's a little thing called Chime and it basically just dings every single hour and lets me know, yeah, the top of the hour. And then I'm like, oh, it's 10 o 'clock and you've done nothing. It's time to get to work. That's a good reminder. So being traditionally published, how much of your own marketing do you take on yourself compared to what your publisher does? Well, that's a great question.

4:51Part of the reason that I went with traditional publishing in the first place was really because I wanted to make sure that I could focus on the writing. So my perspective is honestly, traditional publishers are, they're earning some of the royalties, right? Like they make a fair amount. So I figure I knew the writing and they do all the promotion, which in reality, I do some on my own. And the way I sort of try to approach it is I'll take responsibility for reaching my current reader base. So I have my newsletter and Instagram, you know, my assistant will post things on Facebook, but in terms of the reaching new readers and like the advertising and sort of the more, we'll say innovative strategies, that's something that I really look to them to cover as much as possible.

5:34Do you think it's necessary for authors to have kind of their own marketing strategies in place? I do, and not to be completely contradictory, I'm just thinking that publishers should do it, even if you're traditionally published. I'm a huge fan of at least, even if it's just bullet points and sort of what your strategy is, but the one thing I do think that a lot of authors maybe are limiting themselves on is they focus so much on the new release or the release that's just coming up or the book that's on sale. And of course, that should be a huge part of it. We want to promote what's new and fancy and the sort of fresh material.

6:08But I think sometimes we forget that we make as much per book as something that released a year ago as the book that's coming out tomorrow. So don't forget about that backlist. Honestly, the reason that I'm able to make a living on this at all is because of the books that I've written before. And the new releases really are just sort of a bonus. So definitely, yes, you need a marketing plan. And yes, it should include, you know, your backlist and branding. And if you want to do a blog, and really sort of helping establish who you are as a whole, and not just that new release. That's a great point.

6:40Never forget. Yeah, don't forget your backlist. Good point. So I've been reading your books since 2014. And one of the first things I did after reading them was join your newsletter. So I was updated on all your coming titles. And then I've seen as many iterations over the years, you had it, I think, weekly, which I enjoyed on my commute to work. But you've slowly simplified your focus, basically, and you've chosen Instagram and Pinterest. So can you just talk about your decision to focus on these two platforms rather than everything? Because there's so many social media platforms out there. I think it's hard for an author to pick which one because they think they need to be on all of them.

7:15Yes. So it was actually, it was a weird, weird decision. And I weird only because most authors aren't doing it. But so in May 2018, so a little less than a year ago, I actually quit Facebook and Twitter, which is, you know, again, sort of unheard of for authors. And I did it very cool turkey. I didn't really plan it. It was kind of an instinctive gut reaction. It ended up sort of being for the best, as weird as it was, and sort of as scary and unusual. And I found really that once I did that, it just gave me a lot more, I guess, creative freedom to sort of think of other ways of reaching readers, whereas everybody's on Facebook and everybody's doing Facebook parties and Facebook groups and fan groups, or there's just so many things.

7:59And it sort of felt a little bit like noise to me. And I thought, okay, what if I took a step back from that because it was never really a natural fit for me anyway, and tried something a little bit new and a little bit different. And I'm sure it's not without its costs. There are a lot of people on Facebook that aren't on Instagram. And I'm very aware that I'm no longer able to personally connect with them. But ultimately, it really does just kind of, it gives me a chance to focus and I think create a more specific strategy that I wouldn't have if I was trying to do all the things at once. So I find Instagram and Pinterest are very image heavy.

8:32And that's kind of a hard thing to do when you're trying to promote a book. But how have you made these platforms work for you? Because I was reading your blog, and you mentioned that you have like a specific format that you pick for Instagram. And then you've found a way to like help with Pinterest to get readers to your titles? Yes. So Instagram, really my biggest suggestion there is always that people like pretty things on Instagram. I think a lot of authors treat it sort of as a, almost like an extension or alternative to Facebook. And it can be, but really if you want to grow there, and I think especially not just looking at your number of followers, but if you want to have people sort of engage with you and consistently like your photos and reply to your stories, they do need to be visually appealing.

9:13So I've shifted a little bit around, you know, I try different things. I do black and white photos. I'll do all black. I'll do all white. I'll do a checkerboard just so I myself don't get bored. But I find that that sort of gives a visual appeal that really does bring in new readers. And I think the coolest thing there is that if you do have a basically a pretty Instagram feed, you're going to reach people that maybe haven't heard of you. And it's not just about reaching, you know, that Goodreads crew that read your book and now wants your updates, you can kind of reach a whole other set of followers.

9:44And I get people all the time like, oh, I love your feed. And you know, I went and bought one of your books and they're not even normally a romance reader. So it's sort of a cool opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. It's really like kind of the holy grail of social media. Yeah. Do you have any encouraging words or tips for authors afraid to know where they're focused on social media? Because I know a lot of them, they think Facebook is like the top priority most of the time, but anything you think advice that an author should know to not be afraid to branch out? Yeah. The first thing I'll say, I'll be really candid that it is sort of scary.

10:13And even me, I know this was such a great decision for me. I've never been happier. My career feels like it's more focused than ever. But even that being said, I still sometimes have these moments of like, oh my gosh, am I sabotaging everything by not being on Facebook? Because Facebook just is so ubiquitous and everybody seems to be there. But I would say if you like Facebook, be on Facebook. I think that's really the biggest tip that I can give is sort of go with what feels natural to you. And that might be Twitter. I mean, I felt like this really old stilted weirdo when I was on Twitter. And same thing with Facebook, like it's just was never sort of my cup of tea.

10:47And I think people maybe can sense that a little bit. Similarly, I can tell when maybe an author doesn't really love Instagram, you can tell she doesn't really know how to use it. She's just putting up any old picture. And I want to tell them like, you don't have to be on Instagram if you don't love it. So not to get too woo woo, but you know, really go with what you enjoy. And for some people that is all platforms, I see authors all the time that are just killing it and they're on Twitter and Snapchat and YouTube and they've got everything going on and power to them. So really just be honest with yourself and also be okay, you know, breaking the rules a little bit or just doing what makes you happy.

11:19Because I think that's why we got into this career in the first place is our dream job. And if you're miserable, then I think you're missing out a little bit on why you started. People can tell. I really think so. This is just a nosy question, but do you notice on Instagram that there's younger people maybe finding your books compared to Pinterest, let's say? I will say that Instagram and Pinterest both, compared to Facebook, skew much younger. So, there is something to be said for watching demographics a little bit. And at least, even if you're not targeting a certain age group, sort of being aware of who you're talking to, So in terms of Instagram versus Pinterest, not really.

11:59They're both overwhelmingly female. I do find it interesting on Instagram, and this is kind of just anecdotal, as best I can tell from profile pictures. I don't have full data. I've noticed that younger Instagram users tend to respond more to my stories. Like I'll get a lot of replies there. Whereas I think maybe the slightly older set of Instagram users, and there are plenty, they seem to be more engaged on like the actual posts, you know like the grid default that's just my observation but I found that interesting I don't know if it's because it's more like snapchat you know the story features and snapchats for the young cool kids I don't know am I old because I don't respond to the instagram stories reactions now and filters there's so much should I be doing also like I don't understand okay so one of the reasons that I wanted to talk to you is because you kind of have this really cool handle on your author branding.

12:52I feel like you have a great example of what branding for an author could be like throughout your Instagram look and you kind of have the same look on your website as well. What do you define as an author brand and how did you decide on what the Lauren Lane brand aesthetic should look like? Well, first of all, thank you. But in terms of what an author brand is, this took me a long time to figure out because when I was first starting out, I had maybe one or two books out and they didn't sell well. In fact, they more or less bombed. And one of the things about author brand is I don't know that people exactly understand what that is.

13:25And I think a lot of people, and this also applies to publishers, I think a lot of people think your author brand is how big you are to how many followers you have and like, oh, your brand needs to grow. It is not a numbers game. Brand is really something, it's sort of more who you are. And the way I always describe it is basically the vibe you give off. So if you go to a signing or a book panel and imagine engaging with readers when they walk away and describe you to their friends or tell their mom about you, are they going to be like, oh, she's so friendly or she's so goofy or she's so cool or she was so blunt or swears like a sailor.

13:56All of those things, they really do. That combined with sort of the vibe of your books because there usually is some overlap. That I think is really what an author brand is. And then in terms of brand aesthetic or branding, however you want to describe it, that really is just, again, I keep using the phrase the pretty stuff, but it is the pretty stuff. It's the colors that you use. It's the type of images that you gravitate towards. It's whether you use like all lowercase friendly fonts or you use bold caps and all of that to an extent, I think, should be a reflection of who you are because it tells people sort of your story.

14:28Like, are you the bold caps girl or are you like the lowercase fun hot pink girl? And you can be all of the above, but I think starting to get consistent with that is, it's very important for authors, especially as they grow. And you were saying that you were on a publisher call, then it cut out? Yes. Oh, sorry. So yeah, my publisher call, one of the things that they started out saying was, you need to grow your brand. And I was like, what does that mean? They're like, well, you don't have that many Facebook followers. And I didn't. I'd only had one book out. I maybe had 600 Facebook followers.

14:58I'm not sure. And it threw me for a loop, honestly, probably for years, because I kept thinking, I even wrote this semi-angry blog post at the time. And it was basically like, I am not a brand. Because it is like when they try to put a number on your brand and how big it is, then you start measuring your self-worth as an author, as whatever that level of reach is. Or my brand is that I have 20 ,000 Facebook followers. And that's not it at all. I know plenty of authors who have 30 ,000 Facebook followers, but they don't get that much engagement. And that's because their brand isn't that strong.

15:32And then I'll see other maybe more debut authors that get a ton of engagement. They're putting out a brand, they're consistent, the readers know what to expect from this person, and they want to know this person. So really don't underestimate the consistency and authenticity factor, and definitely pay attention to that rather than numbers, especially when you're just starting out. That's really good advice. And as far as your images that you have, is there a team behind the look that you have across platforms and your website? So my book covers themselves are 100 % my publisher. So again, I'm traditionally published, so I sadly don't get to do my own covers.

16:10I would love to. But in terms of my website and everything that you see on Pinterest and Instagram is only me. And I'm actually very picky about my graphics. So sometimes I'll get behind and my assistant's like, I can help. And I'm like, no, they're mine. So yeah, and that's honestly, it's one of my favorite things to do. I don't let myself do it until I hit my word count. But I love at the end of the day, sometimes I'll get a glass of wine and you know a list of graphics I need to create and I just kind of go to town. It looks great it kind of has like a gossip girl like New York vibe I really like all the black and white.

16:42Thanks. So how can an author find or create their own branding and do you kind of have any platforms or tools that you recommend for editing photos? Yes so in terms of finding your branding because I know it can be really overwhelming like someone just says like go find your fonts and colors. And if you don't have any design experience or web experience, you're like, what does that mean? So again, I always point people towards Pinterest. I do like I could spend hours. I do spend hours. But you just like even if it's a secret board just for you, save any pictures that jump out. So if it's flowers that you like, or like a beach scene or a cityscape, and you will eventually start to notice that you gravitate towards certain things like either it'll be sort of like cozy pictures or you'll like, you know, in my case, I like the more glamorous sort of like New York City lifestyle pictures.

17:33So start paying attention to that and you'll get a sense really of where you want to go with your branding. In terms of tools, if at all possible, if you are brand new to this and you want some sort of consistency, I'd actually recommend hiring a brand designer. If you can't yet afford a full website, because I know those are pricey, you can find a brand designer for much less than you can a web designer. And they will actually put together like a branding kit for you. So you can give them your Pinterest board and they'll say, okay, here's your color palettes. And they'll have what's called the hex code, which you'll need if you want to design any of your own graphics.

18:09And then they'll give you the fonts and the styles. And then what you can do with that is take it to one of my most recommended tools, which is canva.com. And it's a free tool. They also have a business plan, which I'd recommend. But really within Canva, you can set up templates. that then have those same colors and the same fonts that the branding person created for you. And that way you can do it yourself. So, you know, you're not spending an arm and a leg getting these fancy graphics, but they will at least start to look consistent because you have these sort of common branding elements. So all the images you post on Pinterest are created by you?

18:40Yes. Yeah, I do most of them on Canva. I do, I'll be honest, use Photoshop for some of the fancier ones. Photoshop is super complicated. So unless I don't honestly recommend it. I was one of those kids that when I was, I was probably like nine or 10. And this was back in probably 1990. My dad came home with like an early version of Photoshop and handed it to me and he's like, this is the future. Learn it. He wasn't wrong. And it kind of kills me. And he made me learn to type too. And honestly, I don't, I'm not great with Photoshop, but that really did probably give me a head start that helps if you're just starting out.

19:17I don't listen to anyone that says, oh, you have to have Photoshop because it is hard. It's complicated. It's expensive. Yeah. So truly just use Canva. Like that's my go-to and I can create it so much faster than I can Photoshop. I will check that out. Yeah. And is there an app that you recommend or do you use an app for Instagram as well? Like I know some people use them to lay out like their grid and get the look before they actually upload? Yes, I am a huge fan. I've tried a few of them and they're all good, but I'm a huge fan of Planoly. And I think that's how you say it. And it is phenomenal because not only can you upload all of your images for Instagram ahead of time and you can drag and drop so you see what they look like, but in the past couple of months, they actually will let you auto schedule.

20:03So I'm a little behind now, but for November and December, I had my entire or grid planned every post for every single day, like 30 days in advance. And, you know, I'll swap them out. Like if something fun happens that day and I want it to actually be like a daily update, then I'll swap out the image for whatever my pre-planned one was. But it really takes a lot of the sort of the pressure off Instagram. So then you can really focus on making it pretty and making it fun and you can batch it up and do it while watching Gossip Girl reruns on a Saturday night. You know, it's not like you have to worry about it every single day.

20:34So planily is definitely the way to go. Awesome. Have you used that one more? Yeah, that's what we use for the KWL Instagram, actually. It honestly was such a game changer for me. I didn't even know that they made those type of things because it's called Instagram. So I thought you had to do everything like instantly. Yeah. I'm always like impressed with that schedule. Such a game changer for sure. Yeah. So you mentioned you had an assistant. We just interviewed a virtual assistant last week. And I was just wondering how, how do you use a virtual assistant? Do you have them help you out with something specific so you have more time to write or do they just maybe plan out your schedule?

21:11She honestly, I don't use her as well as I should because she's phenomenal and she's forever sending me like emails and texts like, can I help you with something? She was doing when I was on Facebook, the biggest thing that she did was really helping manage that Facebook persona for me because I didn't love it. And she does still manage a Facebook group. So all of my messaging says Lauren Lane is not on Facebook, but there is a reader group and she'll always go in and sort of facilitate that, make sure everyone's playing nice. And she'll also post, you know, sales and relevant Lauren Lane news for me there.

21:43She also, I'll give her my manuscripts when they're finished and she'll oftentimes go through and like pull out sort of like the catchy parts that we can use for teasers. Because for some reason, that's my least favorite part is having to go back and reread my own stuff and figure out like where the fun bits are. She'll sort of like build a whole spreadsheet for me on that. She does the same thing once we start getting reviews. I have a very firm, I don't read any reviews policy. So she'll go in and do that for me and basically find all the nice ones that we can then use sort of on promo graphics.

22:15And then she also, it's wonderful, she puts them all into a Google sheet for me. And if I'm ever having a bad day or someone gets under my skin, she sends me a link and it's basically all nice Lauren Lane stuff. So it's really stuff like that. And she does my ultimate least favorite task in the world, which is mailing. So I live in the middle of Manhattan and there's, I don't know, whatever, 8 million people that live here and we don't have that many post offices. So, oh, and we have to carry our books because we don't have cars in New York. So if I ever want to mail a book and I don't have any room in my apartment.

22:51So all my books, like my own Lauren Lane books are stored under the bed. So I had to come get the book from under the bed, carry it to the post office, which is like eight blocks away or try to find a cab. And it was just miserable. So now I literally get my author copies. I keep one for myself, one for my sister, and I send the rest to Lisa and she manages all that for me, which is great. Lisa's a hero. I'm surprised the post office is so bad in New York. Yeah, I think it really I mean, just because real estate is so expensive here. And so every space is tiny and it's like anything even just going to the grocery store or like the CVS the drugstore here.

23:28It'll be tiny and you're like, where are the tampons and they're like one tiny shelf and like 10 women like waiting in line to get it. So everything's just crowded. I don't know why I love it so much sometimes. So we'll just switch gears to writing. Do you have an author community you turn to when you have questions or when you have like in need of support and any friends that you look to for advice? I do. I always feel a little antisocial saying this. And I'm a pretty hardcore introvert anyway. So it makes sense that it carries over into my writing life. But I've actually never really been an active part of RWA, not because I don't think it's an amazing tool.

24:03That's Romance Writers of America. It's just for whatever reason, I'm not a group thinker. And I also don't really necessarily like to know what other authors are doing just because I don't want to be influenced by it. But that said, I do have my squad. So I don't know if you guys know, like Jennifer Probst. Oh, yeah. Jennifer Probst, Rachel Van Dyken, and Jessica Lemon. Those are really my core three. And I talk to them every single day, if not hourly, via text or messages, honestly. And a lot of it's just like sometimes it's a reader, it's this nasty email. Sometimes it's just like talking to other through that.

24:37or if one of us is stuck on a plot issue or like, you know, page 20 too soon for the first kiss or is page 92 too late for the first kiss? It's all those sort of questions that you would probably imagine romance authors talking about. That's what we talk about. Oh, we talk about wine a lot too, honestly. Sometimes on a bad day, it'll be like 3.30 and we're like, is it too early? No, no. I like your guys' style. But yeah, definitely couldn't do without them. we noticed you have a lot of advice and resources on your website for authors so can you tell us a little bit about what resources authors can find there yes so I've actually tried to step up a little bit this year so as we're recording this it's January 2019 and one of my I can't even believe I'm saying this out loud because it's such a crazy goal but I'm trying to put up a blog post every single day and so far I will say I've done it I've had to batch some of them up a little bit And I'm trying to do kind of themes.

25:34So if you're a writer and you're trying to figure out like what sort of stuff I post, on Wednesdays, I'll try to do writing craft. So sort of like, you know, the actual process of writing and writing tips. Thursdays is sort of when I'll talk about like business stuff. So like tools that I use or strategies for publishing, all that kind of stuff, the business basically of being an author. and then like Saturdays I do design Sundays are kind of all over the place so yeah that it really sort of depends what day you look and then also the business part because so many of us don't really talk about that and I think especially for newbies as much as we can shed light for them it's nice to help those people that are just starting out and hopefully not scare them off is there any advice currently not on your website that you feel authors should know honestly not specifically just because if I have a thought I tend to put it out there The one thing I will say and it always sounds a little bit trite and i'm sure people Roll their eyes at me But it's to basically the best marketing strategy is really to write another book So I get so many questions from people that have written one book or haven't even finished the book and they're already Worrying about how to promote it And at least one thing that worked for me and granted this was a few years ago and times change and I know the market has changed Quite a bit But the best way that I grew momentum was to just write another book So I wrote it and I put it up and then I started the next one.

26:53And it really, I think, is readers knowing that they can count on you to release something consistently. That's going to help them remember your name far more than any Facebook party or Instagram strategy that you try. So it really is just keep going and don't focus on the one book because so few of us are in the E.L. James category or J.K. Rowling. Very few people are known for one book. and like my personal role model is Mer Roberts who oh yeah yeah I mean she's been writing since before I was born and I am not a spring chicken and she she didn't have one book that made her super famous she just kept writing book after book and people eventually realized they could count on her for a consistently good story even from a reader's perspective knowing that an author I just found that I really really like has like five more books I can read is like the best fun you could do the best yes exactly I know I still even being a reader or an author I still get that way when I read and there'll be some author I've never heard of and I think she's new and I find out she's not and I'm like oh my gosh feels like a gold mine and then I blew through like an eight book series I'm like oh that was a great great line I've got reading hangover for like the next couple days yes it's kind of depressing though because then you don't you think like you'll never find another one that was that good.

28:10Oh yeah, all the time. And I'm like, that was the end. Do you read a lot of romance too? Or do you kind of like to switch out to different genres? You know, I sometimes get embarrassed to say that I actually don't read romance. I should say I don't read contemporary romance that much anymore. And that's partially because I never want to inadvertently mess with my own voice or my own style or, you know, accidentally pick up somebody else's idea or character quirk when reading. But it's also, I've noticed contemporary romance has changed quite a bit since I first started writing. And it tends to be a lot sexier now.

28:46And I'm like, I don't want the sexy stuff. I want like the butterflies. So part of it is just reading preference. Part of it is a little bit just my, I don't want to mess with my writing process. I do read a lot. And I mean, a lot of Regency romance. I always have. But in particular, as I've pulled back from contemporary a little bit. I find I'm reading that more than ever. I feel like the Regency authors can't keep up with me. They need a write master. I've been finding that that's what I've been turning to a lot recently too. Like that's all I'm reading and I don't know why. Yeah, I don't know what it is either.

29:15And like I do still, you know, like if I have friends that release a book, I'll obviously read their contemporary romance. I'll always buy Christina Lauren. You know, I do have a couple auto-buy authors, but for some reason the Regency stuff just is working for me lately. And then other genres, no. So I do read nonfiction. And actually one of my goals for this year is to read more nonfiction because it is, along with romance, probably one of my favorites. It always kind of feels like the brain food, whether it's a self-improvement book. I read a lot of biographies. But like I've never really been into women's fiction.

29:47I don't really read mysteries. I will read YA occasionally, but only if I know it has a lot of romance in it. So yeah, I'm pretty much all about the romance. And then just an offshoot is why do you personally like to write romance? I don't know. You know, I think about that and I'm like, I think I liked romance even before I hit puberty when I look back at it. Because, you know, I was a super avid reader. So I think first grade, I was reading everything I could get my hands on. But I definitely distinctly remember sort of like this pivot point. And I don't know how old I was. I think probably way too young.

30:19But like I discovered Nancy Drew and the Sweet Valley Twins, like before they got to Sweet Valley High, whatever the younger ones are. And even there, they would have little romances. and like that was what I loved to read. And then by the time I got to whatever, seventh or eighth grade, I was fully reading the stuff because they have YA romances even back then. And then by the time I got to high school and I discovered my first romance novel, it was honestly all over. I was like, they write entire books just about the romance part. And yeah, I was kind of done for. And throughout college, I totally would like buy, this is before eBooks, I would buy like, I don't know, 15, 20 used books on Amazon and have them shipped to my parents' house.

31:02So they were waiting when I got home from college and I would just binge read them like crazy. I love them. I did that too. So what are you working on next? What can readers look forward to from you in 2019? So I do have next up and it's actually just a couple of weeks away as I'm speaking of doing promo and I've done none. I have the last book in my 21 Wall Street series, which is an Amazon series. But then what I'm so excited for is a brand new series and it's called Central Park Pact. And it's basically, it's, I don't know if you guys ever seen the movie, The Other Women or Other Woman, maybe as Cameron Diaz.

31:43It's honestly, it's not a great movie. The premise is they are all unknowingly married to or dating the same guy. So I decided to do that. And then bear with me here because it's not as dark as it sounds, but they actually meet at his funeral. So it has almost a dark comedy. And he has, you know, kind of not a comedic death, but you know, it's not a tragedy. But yeah, so they basically form this very unlikely friendship over this guy that kind of screwed them all over. So it's sort of, you know, the three of them really is about their friendship. And then they make a pact to sort of protect each other from guys like Brayden, the dead jerk.

32:22And then of course, they find nice guys along the way and sort of like help guide each other towards happily ever after. But it's fun because it has, I'm not a huge fan, I'm just going to say this, and hopefully not insult any other authors that are listening. I'm not a huge fan of the romance genre going towards like the shirtless guy cover for every single contemporary romance. So one thing that was really fun for me about this is it's a trade paperback series with a different publisher for me. And they let me do something that does look a little bit more like women's fiction. So it's got kind of like a cute little cartoon.

32:51And like, so it's fun to do something that was basically a little bit, it felt a little bit closer to my branding. And so yeah, I'm so excited for the series. I can't wait. And that'll be out in May, May, September. And then the third one that I'm writing right now will be out in January of 2020. So three books. Yeah. Awesome. We'll have to keep an eye out for them. I've also never picked up a book because I was like, that shirtless chest is exactly what I need right now. Just throwing that out there. I know. Well, the thing that I'm also a little bit baffled on, and I'm sure it's going to change eventually, but I'm like, how do the readers keep them all apart?

33:24Because I know I certainly can't when it's like, naked guy, naked guy, naked guy, whaley six pack, whaley six pack. So I guess they must have some system. But I guess my Goodreads list of books I've read is how I distinguish between chess at this point. so then we just have one more question is what have you been loving lately it can be a book a movie tv show podcast whatever i don't actually watch a ton of tv i don't read that much i basically just work because i love it so much but i will say one of my favorite things to do is when i do have when we're talking about graphics so like all the pinterest and instagram stuff that i do um i do try to do like at least 10 pinterest graphics a day and i have an instagram post every day in my stories, which takes some time.

34:10So my favorite thing to do is at the end of the day, put on reruns of stuff I've already seen. Like if you ask if I've seen some cool new show, there's zero chance that I've seen it. But I've seen Friends probably 10 million times. New Girl is favorite. My husband and I are actually super nerdy and we watched all the Star Treks together. So he's already seen them because he was nerdy before me. But now I'm basically learning the whole Star Trek world. So we'll put on Star Trek. That's from, I don't know, like a thousand years ago. And we have our laptops and we work on graphics for a Pinterest account.

34:42And that's what we do. So there you have it. I watch stuff that's 10 years old or older. I mean, I will pick, yeah, I picked movies that I've seen before, probably more so than I should. I've also probably watched Friends like 10 times. It's just so comforting. And I think that's probably why I gravitate towards it. Like I've never really, in the same way I like to read romance and I don't necessarily like thrillers and stuff I know has a sad ending. I'm the same way with movies and TV shows. So if I am going to try something new, I will absolutely Google it. And I'm like, does anyone die? Should I be prepared for like somebody to get divorced?

35:13Like I just like to be mentally prepared, basically. And then so our final question is, where can readers find you online? Well, if you've been listening to me babble, you probably already know that I love Instagram. So Instagram is really kind of the go-to. I am on Pinterest, although Pinterest I don't recommend so much for updates. And then that newsletter that you mentioned, It has been through 10 million iterations. I'm always trying to find a good side about that. I find it very interesting that there are all these best practices about newsletters. And I've taken classes, I've read books, I've done online courses, that whole thing.

35:49And interestingly, readers, romance readers, I guess, don't seem to follow the same patterns as supposedly other businesses do. That's why you see me change so much is because they're like, oh, this is a new big thing and this will get you a better open rate. And I'm like, nope, readers didn't like that one. So that's why I am always trying to explore a little bit on my newsletter. So if you sign up for my newsletter, it will probably change a strategy about 10 ,000 times. I have fun with it. I noticed as I interrupt this, but once you sent like a newsletter survey or something, and I thought that was the best idea I've ever seen just to be like, what books do you like?

36:24Why are you looking at my emails all the time? Like I thought that and I feel more authors could try that and maybe have more success. Did you find that was helpful? You know, it sort of was, except it's confirmed what I was afraid of is that different people want different things. So I was almost sort of hoping, like it would be helpful to know if everybody just wanted the book updates, then I'd be like, well, Lauren, shut up about your life and your dog and your blog post. They just want book news. But that's not the case because that is the majority of people obviously want to know when I have a new book out.

36:53But then there's also a whole group that follow me because I'm a writer. So I'm trying to figure out basically how much does it make sense to segment, which is the email marketing term, which is send certain emails to certain people. But really the tricky part, I'm getting really into this now. I feel pretty good about this part. But the tricky thing is because we authors don't sell our stuff directly, we don't really have a way of knowing who buys which book. So a lot of people sell stuff through their website and then they can say, oh, we already know that this person bought the first stiletto book.

37:23so we'll send them you know an update on book two whereas I don't have that information because I don't know who's bought what so I always feel like I'm bombarding people and it gets very complicated. That's interesting. I would like to assume like in my head I'm thinking like oh everybody's read every book and I don't want to keep talking about this but obviously there's a ton of people that haven't read all 30 of my books. I just don't know who those people are yet. Do you use that like a newsletter client to send out your newsletter like we use MailChimp for ours. Is there one you use or is it just like...

37:55I do. And that's actually part of the reason that you've probably seen it change so much. So I use MailChimp for a long time. And then in the past year, I've switched. I tried maybe three others. And I have finally decided on ActiveCampaign, which is sort of one of the bigger ones. And I like it just because it does have, it'll tell you exactly what people clicked on. And then it'll like tag those people for you. So if I know, like it'll start to tell you, hey, this person always clicks on a stiletto book. and it's smart enough to pick that up without you having to analyze the data. And then similarly, it'll tell you like, you know, this type of blog post is most popular or this person only opens your emails at night.

38:33So maybe send this person in the night schedule, all that kind of stuff that I'm not quite sure what to do with yet, but it's nice that it's starting to gather that for me so I can hopefully someday crack the newsletter code. That's really interesting. Yeah. The other thing I'll say is, and then I'll stop, I promise. But when I mentioned that romance authors or romance readers tend to function differently than what I've been hearing from sort of other areas and other businesses is overwhelmingly the studies show that newsletters that are text only, so that read like a letter where it's like, like, you're so-and-so.

39:09Hi, you know, this is Lauren Lane. And if it's just text with the links in there, those supposedly have much higher open rates, like by 20 to 5 to 30 % usually. And they have higher click-through rates. Whereas I've been trying that for three weeks now. And that has not been the case for me. People much more preferred when I did, because I used to do prettier ones where I would have graphics. I did the clutch for a long time. And even though all the studies show like that's not what people want, they don't want the images, they want a personal letter from you. That doesn't seem to be the case for my followers.

39:40So that's why you're seeing me change too. I'm trying to basically collect this data and be like, okay, what are people liking? What are they opening? Yeah. And it's a mystery. Any preferences? I mean, I guess I've gotten used to images. So that's what I expect. But like, do I prefer that? I'm not sure. I do like them though. But I also like Pinterest and Instagram. So I guess it's what I enjoy using anyways. Yeah, that's very true. It's a mystery. Yeah, I'll keep you guys updated. Like this is my highest open rate. Yes, let us know. Oh, great. So that's all our questions we have. Yeah. So thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

40:14I think we've learned a lot. Awesome. Thanks, ladies.

40:17Lauren Layne: Thank you for listening to the Kobo Rewriting Life podcast. If you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure to rate, review and subscribe. And do follow us on socials. We are at Kobo Writing Life on Facebook, Instagram threads, Blue Sky and TikTok. This episode was hosted by Stephanie McGrath and Laura Granger with production by Terrence Abrahams. Editing is provided by Kelly Robotham and our theme music is composed by Tearjerker. If you're ready to start your publishing journey, sign up today at kobo.com slash writing life. Until next time, happy writing.