Kobo ReWriting Life - #42 - How to Succeed as a Hybrid Author with Rebecca Zanetti

0:05Rebecca Zanetti: Hey writers, you're listening to the Kobo Rewriting Life podcast, where we highlight an episode from our backlist that will bring you insights and inspiration for growing your self-publishing business. I'm your host, Tara Kremen, director of Kobo Writing Life. I hope that you're having a lovely summer so far and a lovely winter to our Southern Hemisphere friends. My vacation TBR pile is growing and I can't wait to dive in but before I do I am here to highlight this wonderful episode with best-selling author Rebecca Zanetti. Rebecca is a hybrid author and she talked to us a lot about her decision to try indie publishing but also the challenges of juggling multiple publishing contracts as well as all of her indie publishing schedule.

0:50Rebecca Zanetti: She has a background in law which no doubt helps and she dives right into that as well. And just a heads up that this episode is from 2021, so it contains some brief mentions of COVID. Thank you, Rebecca, for joining us on the podcast today. Thanks for having me. Before we get into it, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself? Sure. I live in northern Idaho, up in the mountains. I'm married with two kids. They're both home right now. They're teenagers. And they're both in college, but they're home. I started writing in 2009 and I sold my first book that year and the first book came out in 2011 I've also been a lawyer and an art curator and a college professor And it all just comes into the writing.

1:36So it's fun. And I've been married 23 years So I should mention big tone So i'm interested since you started considering writing in 2009. Can you talk about your journey? Like were you writing before that and then you just decided to publish your book or what was it like? You know, I always wanted to be a writer, but there's a lot of other things I wanted to do, too, like study law and be a lawyer. And so we got snowed in in the very end of 2008, 2009. And it just it was a good time just to sit down and try to write that first book. And so I did. And then once I was writing, there was no like stopping.

2:14So I wrote like three or four books and then in different genres and then just waited to see which one sold first. And it was a paranormal book, which everybody said, don't write paranormal. So I learned right away not to listen to everybody and write what I wanted to write. So that first paranormal book sold to Kensington. And the series is actually still going on. We have, we're book like 14 right now with a couple of spinoffs. So it worked out. Can you tell us what made you decide to self-publish with disorderly conduct? You said it was a little bit different to anything that you've written before.

2:47Or was that the impetus behind deciding to publish it differently? Yeah, it was. And I'm contracted right now. So I have two series with Kensington, which are front list. And I finished recently a series with Grand Central. And so I just felt it was time just to try it. I wanted to launch a series. And this series is very different. Well, I should say somewhat different than what I'm writing for anybody else. and also it's very light-hearted and funny and it seemed like this was the time with everyone kind of stuck at home in the world in turmoil to write something light-hearted and funny so it was just the timing really worked out and I was ready I was ready to put this book out there so the first book is called Disorderly Conduct and like I said there's just more humor in it you know I often have humor but not this much so it just was the time.

3:41You mentioned that you had previously self-published three books from a series you had with your publisher. Why did you decide to kind of continue on in that series? Well, what happened was the series is called The Scorpius Syndrome, and it's about a pandemic. And it's much more apocalyptic than a lot of people. It's like most of the world dies. And so oddly enough, even before COVID, we had trouble with selling the print books. So people would hear pandemic and apocalyptic, and they were just over it. But once we got people to the books, you know, they bought them all. So it was just a matter of, okay, how do we get people to this subject matter when really they're romances like the rest of my romances.

4:22And so we decided to, after the first three books, they just weren't working that well in print. So we were going to go to ebook. But then, you know, I had the dark protectors with Kensington and I sold a romantic suspense series called Deep Bops to Kensington. And so we had two series going and I thought, you know, what does everybody think about me trying to self-publish the next three, I just want to give it a shot. You know, everybody I know has gone hybrid. I wanted to try it using an existing series with already a strong ebook fan base seemed like the smart way to go about it. And, you know, Kensington's always been really, really supportive of me as a writer.

5:01And we've tried different things for the last 10 years. And they're like, okay, yeah, give it a shot, see how it goes. And so, you know, that's why. And so it worked out really well and I was happy I did it and I learned a lot in the process. What have you found were some of the challenges with like making that move to hybrid and some of the things that maybe you, your publisher was dealing with before that are now entirely on you? You know, I like having my publisher do most of the work besides the writing. I've learned that for sure. You know, I found a good editor. I found a really good cover artist.

5:34I found a great publicist, but that's still a lot of extra juggling that I wasn't doing or that I'm not doing with my traditionally published books. And so I definitely am staying traditional. What I really like about the self-hubbing is, you know, shorter timeframes. You can, you know, you don't need to turn a book in 10 to 12 months in advance. And I actually really liked the formatting. I know a lot of people don't, but I had a ball playing on vellum and figuring out, you know, what little designs to put in and then getting paid once a month. So with traditional contracts, you know, you get your advances and you try to space those out.

6:13So you're budgeting and then you get royalties either twice a year or quarterly. So you try to space those out too. But with self-having, you get paid every month, no matter what, you know, you know, Kobo sends you your check, you know, right into your bank account. And I really like that because I'm not that good at budgeting, I've learned. And so that's, for me, that biggest benefit is that just assured monthly income is very, very, very nice. I've noticed recently that a lot of lawyers tend to write romance. What do you think is the correlation between being a lawyer and then moving into fiction?

6:47Well, if there is an answer. I have thought about a lot because there's so many of us who are lawyers. And I think it's a couple of things. One, a lot of people go to law school because they like learning. They like school. but they don't necessarily want to go fight in a courtroom. And the other thing is it's the same skill set. You're trying to convince somebody of something using the fewest amount of words possible. So, you know, when you're in trial, you're trying to convince the jury of something. When you're in, you know, writing a book, you're trying to convince the reader of something, and you're trying to get people involved.

7:22And you're also trying to persuade, if you think about it. So I think it's very much the same skill set. I love that. I would never have made that connection. And you said that you used to teach also? I did. So I was a lawyer and then we had the two kids. And so I didn't want to worry about billable hours and all that, but I always figured I'd go back to law. So I started teaching at the college. I was a college professor teaching law. And that worked well with the kids, you know, because then, you know, kids were young. And for a while, I only taught at night. So I'd be home with them during the day.

7:56And then Tom would be home at night. And so I teach night classes. And then I was also a hearing examiner for the county once a month. So that was fun. So I kind of kept the law going. But I liked that interaction. And I loved teaching, which I didn't know that I would, but I absolutely loved it. And so when I, you know, the books took off, and so I had to make a choice. And so I chose the books. And I really missed teaching. But then, you know, my career grew to a point where I could teach about writing or give workshops or do master classes. So that worked out ultimately. So I still get that kind of interaction and rush when, you know, we're not all at home.

8:32Yeah, it's definitely different now. Something that we've found that with a lot of our most successful authors, it does come along with writing multi-book series. And I know that that's how you write as well. Do you have any tips for writing those very engaging multi-book series? Absolutely. Well, first write what you want to write. And then don't forget those slow burn characters, because those characters that somehow often just land on the page in, you know, the first couple of books, they'll burn throughout the series and grow. And then, you know, the fans really want those books. And those books are the ones that, you know, if you haven't hit a list yet, those are usually the ones that hit a list.

9:09And it's fun to grow those characters over a few books, you know, you get more time with them. and so the reader knows them better by the time you get to their book and they're invested so I think that slow burn character is really important you know tying books together however you do it and I you know I have a master class that goes into this but it can be any way it can be from doing families to you know towns to anything and I think the series really are a way to build your fan base no matter how you put it together so I highly recommend it. What your writing process is like, does it differ between every book or do you kind of have like the same?

9:49I think I have the same. I sit down and since I write romances, no matter which genre it is, my first chapter is either the couple meeting or meeting up again. And so that first chapter is always that fresh, you know, seeing each other. and I write a lot of those first chapters on airplanes or at least I used to. I'm having no idea about the book or the characters or the plot and I just write this meet you know how two people meet up and I really enjoy that. I have tons of them in a file somewhere and then when it's time to recontract I take about and look at them think okay I want to write this one and then I have to figure out who these people are why they're there and you know what keeps them apart and what the external conflict is.

10:31So that's how, that's my bigger process. And my smaller process is I get up and I write every day. So. Do you write quickly? I do. I always read quickly as a kid, and then law school really teaches you to read quickly. And so I think that that translates into writing quickly. I do have carpal tunnel, which, you know, most of us end up getting at some point. And so I'll probably have to slow down at some point, but I haven't had to yet. So. we've been talking a lot about NaNoWriMo Kobo just because that was a big thing in November and I know for a lot of us we find it difficult to create that everyday writing habit was that something that came naturally to you when you started writing or was it a bit of a discipline to sit down and actually make that habit it's definitely a discipline and when I first started it was when I was working and the kids were in every sport you can imagine and they didn't drive yet And so, you know, in the beginning, it was a way of trying to find the time to write, whether it was in, you know, the carpool lane for an hour or at basketball practice.

11:36So I think getting into the mood of when can I write, when can I write, when can I write really actually translates into a nice structure later on when all of a sudden you have time like, okay, I can write. So I think that helped me build on, okay, now I have time. How am I going to structure this time? I just, I had a COVID test a few weeks ago. I got exposed. So, you know how you have to get in your car and you're in line for like an hour. I took my laptop and I wrote the whole time because I was just sitting there in the car waiting to get, you know, things shoved up my nose, which is not fun.

12:08I heard the test is nicer now, but it was not fun. But, you know, even then I'm like, okay, well, I have an hour. I might as well write. I'm pretty impressed that you did that, especially because it's kind of nerve wracking to be sitting waiting for the test. It was. I was negative, by the way. Good, good. I feel like Joni's had a few tests so far. Oh, I agree. It wasn't the nicest. No. I was just wondering, what do you think has been the best thing you've done for your writing business? The best thing I've done, you know, I think it's putting everything you have into this one book. The book I'm writing right now is where I put everything.

12:48I don't save anything for the next book or the next series or whatever. more ideas will come. I put everything into this book and just let it all go. I think honestly, that's been the best thing for the writing, you know, and I do think there's some luck in the, in the timing of everything. You know, when I first saw the Kensington, it was right when eBooks were getting big. And, um, I wrote that almost that self-published, you know, eBook way, except I was traditional with it. So, you know, that was pretty good timing and that was lucky. Were you releasing books once a year or was it more often, even though it was traditionally published?

13:26It was more often. And then I ended up writing for two or three publishers. So then it was really more often. Do you find it hard to juggle when you're writing for different publishers? Yeah, I do. Because if you think about it, if you're with one publisher, they know your schedule. They know that you have edits due, so they're not going to send you promotion stuff. But when you're with two or three, they have no clue of your other schedule. And it doesn't really matter to them and it shouldn't because they're worried about theirs. So it is harder to juggle. I think that two publishers is plenty.

13:56Three was real tough. I'm curious. This is kind of a challenging question, but we like to ask at this time of year. So you've been in the publishing business for quite a while and have probably seen quite a few changes. Do you have any predictions or ideas about the next five, 10 years of publishing? Oh man, I have no idea. You know, I would like to see all the e-book retailers kind of on a level field. So, I mean, there's no question where most of my money comes from. And I would like to see other ones grow. I think competition's really important. And so I see that happening now and I would like to see that really happen in the future.

14:37That's kind of my wish list. you know I hear a lot of predictions from other people about what genre is in this and I just don't pay any attention to that because I you know I think you need to write what you what you want to write you know and who knows what's going to happen after this COVID thing are we are we all going to hunker down more or once there's a vaccine are we all just going to go out in the world like crazy and have more books signing some more and I just don't know I would love to go travel somewhere right now. I don't know about you two, but yeah. So I don't know. I mean, there's no doubt that the bigger publishers are combining more.

15:12There was just another one. So who knows? How has this year been for you in terms of like things like book signings and things that you would normally do in person? They've all been canceled. Yeah. Everything's been canceled. So I've been home, which actually here, you know, when there was the first lockdown, our son came home from college and our daughter was a senior. And it was, in a way, it was nice for a couple months for all of us to be together again. But now they're both home again and they're ready to go back to school. And, you know, I understand that. I was young a million years ago.

15:49So I'm kind of ready to get out too. But yeah, even most of my conferences and signings have been canceled through at least the middle of next year. So that's been real different. We've all learned how to Zoom. Have you done more online conferences and things like that? Yeah, I'm actually doing one right now. I'm taking a break from an online conference, Romance Author Mastermind right now. So yeah. Our manager is there, Tara. Oh yeah. For Tara Kramen. I will. That's awesome. It's definitely a little bit different. Like there's good and bad. I think there's some good, but it's definitely like there's something lacking when you don't get to speak to people.

16:26And I imagine it's more so when you're talking about connecting with readers. But if you find that your sales have not suffered in terms of like people are staying home and reading, right? So even without those promotional tours. Yeah, I haven't seen any decline in sales. But keep in mind, traditionally published, if we're going to get hit, it's usually a year later. So I really wouldn't know until beginning of next year. but I don't think, well, knock on wood, we'll see. But launching the self-published series was also strategic that way to kind of keep, you know, everything good. You mentioned that you would hope to see kind of like all ebook stores being like real competitors for Amazon.

17:09What's your kind of opinion on releasing widely rather than limiting your books to one platform? I don't know if you have done exclusive before or what? I've always been wide. Everything I've done has been wide, except for the 1001 Dark Nights novella. I think novellas, I think those are exclusive for 90 days and then they go wide. But that's a publisher decision and they get a lot of marketing from that, I think. But other than that, I've gone wide with everything. Your readers know what to expect. So if you've always gone wide, that's what they expect and that's what they want. And that's good, too.

17:42You've got to kind of support the readers and help them, you know, choose their own path as well, I think. What do you think has made you so interested in romance? Is it because you were a reader before or the kind of stories that you write? There's always a happy ever after, hopefully. You know, when I started reading as a kid, it was always mysteries, you know, like Nancy Drew, Trixie Bell. And then I discovered my mom's bag of books from the grocery store, you know, that was in the old brown bags and there was kissing. And I was like, that was it for me. I knew I wanted kissing in books forever.

18:16And I like the happy ending. and you know I like to know that the end of the book I'm not going to be crying and so even even I read a lot of you know I read some sci-fi I read thrillers I love Dean Koontz but he has great romances in his books people don't realize that but I love his books for the romance and the and the you know adventure and so I don't know it's for me I just if I'm going to spend time on something I want to be happy at the end of it my youngest sister we used to watch movies together And so I'd be watching a movie and she'd want the TV when we were younger. And she'd be like, oh, you know, he dies in the end.

18:51And I'd be like, oh, man. And so I'd give her the TV and go do something else. And she'd be making it up. It'd take me years to figure that out. But that's how she got the TV because she knew I wouldn't watch it if, you know, one of the characters, if it wasn't a happy ending. So I kind of feel the same way about books. So you touched a little bit on how being a lawyer and your training as a lawyer relates to that kind of persuasion thing. How else does that come into your writing? Because I imagine there's probably some insider knowledge that you have that's kind of fun to play around with in fiction writing.

19:20You know, it is. And in that new series, The Anna Albertini File, she's a lawyer. So I actually get to use that knowledge and do some courtroom scenes. And, you know, some crazy things happen when you're a lawyer. You know, it's a weird environment. And so being able to kind of exaggerate those and put them on the page is a lot of fun. Also, the analytical mind. You learn how to analyze everything as a lawyer. You can do the same thing with your books and with characters and why they feel what they feel and go deeper and deeper POV because of that training, I think. Yeah, I think that's really cool.

19:55I imagine that it helps a lot with character development in terms of you've maybe seen the most extreme versions of humanity in your career. True. Very true. Have you seen Nora Roberts on Twitter? so someone was explaining to Nora Roberts that she doesn't know how to publish like she's publishing too slow and I'm like Nora Roberts publishes four books a year and this person was trying to feel like no I think you're doing it wrong have you ever gotten feedback from a reader being like you're writing too slowly real quick what did Nora say she had she had a beautiful response hold on I'm gonna try to find it she was very very classy about it really something along the lines of, I've been writing for a long time.

20:36Thank you for your feedback. And she kind of is like, you don't work in publishing. You don't know what you're saying. And like what I'm telling, what you think is not a fact, basically, at the end of the day. I'm going to see. I love that. Yeah. Oh, the drama on Twitter is pretty great. Yeah, I have to admit, I actually, publishing Twitter, I deleted Twitter last year. And it was, it was just boulders off of my shoulders. I didn't have to worry anymore about Twitter. And I wasn't even doing my own Twitter, but it was still a relief. I saw yesterday actually say more publishing drama on Twitter yesterday, but it was an author that had just like a reader had posted their Goodreads thing.

21:15And they were like, I got X, you know, X percent through this book and I don't really care about it. It shouldn't tag the writer or anything, but the author like kind of weighed it in and was like, well, thanks for trying. I care about this book. And it's like, oh, maybe you don't need to do that. No. That's like, but it's just like people think social media is there for you to engage with people, but I don't know, like, what's your kind of opinion on social media? Do you stick to one platform that you would like, or have you just been like, no, what, I'm not going to deal with any of this? Oh yeah.

21:45I'm on Facebook and Instagram and I was on Twitter for a while, a long time. You know, it's interesting. You do interact, but I always keep it professional. You know, I don't go, and they tell you never to go in. There are some very political, actually, authors, and I don't do any of that. I don't do, it's just about the books and fun and, you know, the deer or the turkeys or the bear around my house, you know, you know, it's that kind of stuff. And I like that. You know, J.R. Ward says about reviews, like, she doesn't belong in the review space because that's readers corresponding with readers.

22:23She goes, I don't belong there. That's their thing. And I agree with her. I learned a long time ago that sometimes or very often a review is more about what's going on in the reviewer's life than in my book or character. And, you know, that's fair, but that's their place. And for interaction, I do interact with my street team, my Facebook street team. But again, it's about books, about pets, about, you know, nothing stressful or what's going to cause any problems. You know, I started writing during the time of social media. So I don't know what it was like before, but it does look a little peaceful before.

23:00Yeah. I think it's that general rule. If you don't have something nice to say, then don't tag the author. I mean, it's also pretty bold of them to do that in the first place I'm going to say. Oh yeah. Or their publisher and their agent, which has happened to me before when I was on Twitter. Oh man. Okay. Okay. We're going to, well, something more happy. What have you been loving lately? It can be a book, movie, TV show. I have been reading, let's see, Christine P. Han's Torpedo Inc. series. I've been reading The Brown Sisters by Talia. What's her last name? Talia Hibbert. Yes. Yes. Love those.

23:41I've been watching, well, I watched you all of seasons one and two of you on Netflix and we're watching Longmire because my husband and I, we both look for something we could watch together before we go to sleep. And it's hard because he likes sports center and I like sci-fi. So we agreed, We watched all of Cheers, watched all of The Office, and now we're watching all of Long Liar. So next, I don't know. So that's what's happening here in the Zanetti house. You season three soon. What's your opinion on you? I'm curious. Well, I thought it was fascinating. I mean, just being in his head. And then it was interesting.

24:19Is he actually, in the first season, he made her life better for quite a while, which was quite the twist until, you know, he didn't. But I thought it was funny. It had some great dark humor. And it was fascinating to me. It kept me entertained. So that's what I need. I was really impressed how they were able to carry that thread of him to a season two because it's kind of impossible for that to happen, I think. But they did it really well. And so I'm excited to see where it goes. Me too. And I have an idea who number three, who it is. But I won't say it on here. I'll tell you later if you want.

24:51And that could be totally wrong. But I have an idea who the woman is. Yeah. What can readers expect from you next? Well, Bailed Out, which is the second Anna Albertini book, comes out in a couple weeks. And then Driven, which is the fourth Deep Ops book, comes out in January. And then we have a Dark Protector book, Rebel's Karma, which is Benny's book, which releases in June. And where can readers find you online? Not Twitter. Not Twitter, but I'm on Facebook and Instagram, and I have a website with a contact form in a newsletter. Awesome. We will include all those links. I have one question I forgot to ask because we got connected through, I think, your PR agency.

25:32And I was wondering, how is it like working with an agency for your self-published titles? Is it kind of the same as working with a publisher? What's your experience with that? It's great because I don't know what I'm doing very well. And so it's great saying, hey, what do we do? What do you think? What should we do? And Social Butterfly is really good at saying, this is what we should do. And so I've been learning a lot through working with Jen. And And it's a lot of the same stuff the publisher does, but I haven't seen this much of it before. Usually I'm like, okay, great. Good luck. Let me know.

26:03And now I'm kind of more involved and I see more of what's happening. And so it makes a little more sense if that helps. But I am very appreciative of the fact that I can hire somebody who knows what they're doing to do that. There's not a lot of trial and error on my part, which there would be if I was trying to figure this out while also trying to write a lot of books. I'm just looking at my list and it's just a lot. It is a lot. I'm very impressed by everyone that does this because so much, you have to be a little bit of everything. Have you planned books like three years from now? Yeah.

26:37Rebecca Zanetti: I mean, that's always good. Thank you for listening to the Kobo Rewriting Life podcast. If you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure to rate, review and subscribe. And do follow us on socials. We are at Kobo Writing Life on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Blue Sky and TikTok. This episode was hosted by Stephanie McGrath and Joni DiPlacido with production by Terrence Abrahams Editing is provided by Kelly Robotham and our theme music is composed by Tearjerker If you're ready to start your publishing journey sign up today at kobo.com slash writinglife Until next time, happy writing!