Trump Nearly Blows It in Sham Lawsuit

2 Jul 2025 · 12 min · 4 chapters

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In short

The Trump administration’s appeal of Judge Beryl Howell’s permanent injunction blocking an order that blacklisted Perkins Coie, alleging retaliation and violations of First and Fifth Amendment rights. The episode also explains the appeal timeline and likely arguments, plus a prior failed Trump lawsuit.

Guest backgrounds

No specific guests are named in the transcript; the host is Michael Popok.

Key claims

Trump tried to brand Perkins Coie as “national security” risks with little evidence and to cut federal legal work; Howell emphasized the independence of the bar as a guardrail against tyranny; other firms that settled “bent the knee” and should have sought justice.

Notable examples

The Perkins Coie case; Howell’s de Tocqueville/founding-fathers discussion; a prior Florida case by Trump/Alina Habba against Hillary Clinton/Democrats that led to $1M sanctions for bad-faith filing; mention of Mark Elias and other Perkins Coie lawyers no longer there.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

Overview of the Case Against Trump

0:45 to 1:46

Discussion on Judge Howell's ruling and the implications for Perkins Coie.

“She said in there that an independent bar is one of the major guardrails against a tyrant, against an out of control tyranny that being developed by Donald Trump.”

Details on the Appeal Process

1:46 to 3:10

Explanation of how an appeal is initiated and the timeline involved.

“That order has now been appealed just in the nick of time.”

Arguments for and Against Trump's Claims

3:10 to 4:49

Examination of Trump's arguments against Perkins Coie and legal precedents.

“Court of Appeals, the Circuit Court of Appeals.”

Future of the Appeal and Supreme Court

4:49 to 6:20

Insights on the potential outcomes and next steps in the appeal process.

“and, of course, weren't punished because of it.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00Michael Popok:Well, the Trump administration almost missed their deadline. They got 60 days to file a notice of appeal in a case, and they just filed a notice of appeal related to Judge Beryl Howell and her decision that the law firm of Perkins Coy was retaliated against in violation of its First Amendment rights, its Fifth Amendment rights, when Donald Trump tried to blacklist them because he saw their involvement with the Robert Mueller investigation and the rest. declared them to be a national security risk, ordered all aspects of the federal government to stop doing business with them, effectively tried to cut their yearly revenue in half or more by denying them the ability to represent clients before the federal government.

0:46Michael Popok:Judge Beryl Howell wrote a scathing decision, ultimately a permanent injunction against the Trump administration, and also at the same time, while rewarding Perkins Coy, She also said the 14 other law firms that settled with Donald Trump should have come to federal judges, should have obtained justice and should not have bent the knee to Donald Trump. She said in there that an independent bar is one of the major guardrails against a tyrant, against an out of control tyranny that being developed by Donald Trump. And she said, those lawyers and those law firms that settled with Donald Trump, how can clients ever trust them, Beryl Howell wrote in her opinion?

1:35Michael Popok:How could you ever trust that Donald Trump is going to do right by you? It isn't going to or the law firms are going to do right by you. It isn't going to try to accede to Donald Trump and the federal government in order to curry favor with them. That order has now been appealed just in the nick of time. We're just in the nick of time here on Midas Dutch Network and Legal AF. Let's dive into it. An appeal. How do you get an appeal started? Let's do a TED Talk meets a law school class that you come to enjoy on Legal AF. How do you do an appeal? You file a notice of appeal. Normally, you have 30 days from a judgment to file your notice of appeal.

2:11Unless you're the federal government or a government, you get 60 days. So May 2nd is when the order, the final order judgment against Donald Trump. The Trump administration was entered by Judge Beryl Howell in favor of Perkins Coy, blocking the executive order, making them radioactive from going into effect. So that gave them until July 2nd. So they've now filed their one-page notice of appeal. It starts at the D.C. Court of Appeals, the Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit, if you will. So it will then be assigned to one of, well, three, a three-judge panel will be assigned to it. They haven't moved for emergency relief.

2:54They haven't moved for an emergency stay as of yet. That could be coming, but it's a little hard to move for an emergency stay when you waited almost a full 60 days to file your notice of appeal. It's hard to say it's an emergency when you've waited around tapping your foot for 60 days. So there will be a three-judge panel that's randomly assigned by the clerk that comes from the 20 or so judges of the D.C. Court of Appeals, the Circuit Court of Appeals. And then they'll set a briefing schedule. Briefing schedule, if it's on a normal track, will be over the next three to nine months with oral argument, probably in the second quarter of 2026.

3:35Could happen in 2025. All bets are off if Donald Trump tries to make an emergency application. I just don't see that prevailing here. Arguments there will be that Donald Trump has the right to call out law firms and to call them and brand them national security risks with little or no evidence.

3:56Michael Popok:The fact that a former partner of Perkins Coie, Mark Elias, who is no longer there, and another of their lawyers who's no longer there, this is now six, seven years ago, then Perkins Coie has to suffer for that. And where is the evidence of a national security risk? That diversity, equity, and inclusion is being used in the hiring practices? I mean, this whole thing is a mess, such a mess that Beryl Howell had to start her order with a recitation of the importance of the independence of the bar and lawyers in America, citing to de Tocqueville, who circulated America in the 1830s, pointing out the only thing that stops this country from sliding into tyranny is an independent set of lawyers.

4:43Michael Popok:and then citing to founding fathers who were lawyers who took unpopular positions and, of course, weren't punished because of it. And so Donald Trump tried this once before, just to remind everybody. He brought a lawsuit against these same individuals, against Hillary Clinton, against the Democratic Party, against others down in Florida. You know what happened there? The judge, Judge Middlebrooks, found it to be a wholly unworthy and meritless case and fine Donald Trump and Alina Habba, who brought the case, a million dollars in sanctions for bad faith filing. Hasn't changed just because Donald Trump is now the president of the United States.

5:23So we'll get the briefing once the three-judge panel is arranged. Once that panel is arranged, I'll be able to report on it on Midas Touch and on Legal AF about, you know, was it a Trumper, an Obama person, a Clinton person? It used to not matter. But unfortunately, we're able to interpret a lot of body language when we know who appointed these judges. Yeah, I want to say they're all moderate. I want to say they're all going to make the right decision or all for the rule of law. But let's be frank. You get a couple of Trumpers in there and all bets are off. So I want to see the three judge panel.

5:57Of course, the briefing will be outstanding on the Perkins Coie side. It'll be less than outstanding on the Department of Justice side. They will likely rule for Perkins Coie, support the ruling of Judge Beryl Howell. And then the last stop on the train is Donald Trump trying to take some sort of appeal to the United States Supreme Court, which will not be an emergency application, but will be the regular request for an appeal. We call it a writ of certiorari. It gets filed. There has to be four votes of the nine to be interested in the writ of certiorari and, of course, five votes to overturn Judge Beryl Howell.

6:31That will be in the next term of the United States Supreme Court. This last term just ended, yeah, with about six or eight opinions dropped on Friday, including some terrible ones about birthright citizenship and nationwide injunctions. They'll be working over the summer on some emergency applications that have yet to be filed but will be filed, including, I think, about birthright citizenship. And then they open their new term the first Monday in October. There's many ways to follow what happens here. Midas Touch, Legal AF. I do about 15 or so videos at the intersection of law and politics right here on Midas Touch.

7:07We've got Legal AF, the podcast. That's Wednesdays and Saturdays at 8 p.m. Eastern time. On YouTube, we are the number one law and politics podcast on YouTube rankings week after week. And number 50 among all podcasts. You also can follow us on Legal AF, the YouTube channel. Legal AF MTN from Midas Touch Network. I curate that. We put up about a dozen videos a day at the intersection of law and politics to keep you up to speed. Legal AF, join that community as well with a free subscription. Legal AF, the Substack. All these things we're talking about. We will post in Legal AF, the Substack along with analysis so that you can get your hands on them and read them for yourself.

7:50So until my next report on all things Legal AF in any format, in any size, I am Michael Popak and you are on the Midas Touch Network.

8:26Michael Popok:versions of the podcast and hot takes where legal AF on Substack. Come over now to free subscribe.

From the publisher

Almost missing the deadline, the Trump Administration has gotten around to appealing Judge Howell’s permanent injunction to stop Trump’s abuse of law firms — this time Perkins Code — and to block Trump from declaring them a “national security threat” as payback for some of their lawyers being involved in the Mueller investigation. Michael Popok looks at the new notice of appeal and lays out what happens next.

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