Is Your Voice Sabotaging Your Career? 3 Vocal Traits That Inspire Authenticity - David Pope - S10E08

0:00Rob:The voice that we hear when we're speaking is not the voice that other people hear. We need to ask, is our voice inspiring and is it engaging? If we're trying to balance all of these things, the authority with the energy, the confidence with the warmth, then we're going to sound much more authentic. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves to try and sound like these other people. We need to just trust our own voice. We've got our own unique voice. And I think we just have to ask two questions. Is our voice engaging? Can we be understood?

0:35David Pope:On today's Legally Speaking podcast, I'm delighted to be joined by David Pope. David is an executive voice coach based in Hong Kong. He runs CPD accredited communication skills workshops and one-on-one coaching sessions. With over 30 years of experience, David has worked with thousands of legal professionals in Magic Circle, US and local firms. He has coached legal professionals in Hong Kong, Tokyo, Sydney, Singapore, Dubai, Riyadh, and London. David is passionate about helping good speakers become great speakers.

1:05Rob:Thank you so much, Rob. Great to be here, and thank you very much for inviting me to be on your show.

1:10David Pope:Oh, an absolute pleasure. I mean, I'm a little bit nervous today when I'm talking to a voice coach about how I should be articulating, so I think I said off air I come here looking for tips and inspiration. But before that, this is you and your moment. So before we get into it, What is your favorite beverage on a typical workday and what is your preferred choice of footwear?

1:29Rob:OK, first time I've ever been asked these questions at the beginning of a podcast. Favorite beverage. Well, I don't drink alcohol, so I would say probably my favorite beverage is a Gunners. Now, people might not know what a Gunners is. So a Gunners was invented in the 1800s out here in Asia, Southeast Asia. And what it is, it's a mix. It's ginger ale, ginger beer, two little drops of Angostura bitters. There is nothing better than a Gunners on a very hot and steamy and humid afternoon here in Hong Kong. And in terms of footwear, probably flip flops. Actually, if I'm not suited and booted, I'm usually wearing flip flops.

2:17Rob:the reason being actually the moment I'm doing it more than than often is because I'm actually training to swim the English Channel in September so I'm having a bit of a midlife crisis so mostly I'm now down at the beach I'm trying to build my stamina for this race I'm sorry not a race it's a relay I'm doing as a relay with three other people so yeah mostly flip-flops there we go

2:44David Pope:Well, there we go. Wishing you tons of luck for that. And that'll be a huge feat. But we've got a lot to get through, David. So let's take us back a bit. Would you mind by telling our listeners a bit about your background and career journey first?

2:55Rob:OK, so I graduated from Leeds University. Did you go there, Rob? You went to Leeds, right? Like my good self. Yeah, absolutely. Loved my time there. So I graduated probably a few decades before you. so yeah my my degree was in english literature media studies and i moved down to london to the big lights the big city all the excitement of going down there this was the late 80s and i was very fortunate but i secured my job my first job was as a runner at a film production company so and probably this is going to give my age now i was working with the likes and pop videos with Wham! Remember George Michael?

3:39Rob:And also, aha, dire straits. And so one of my jobs as the runner was I was having to, well, you're basically running around on all the film shoots, and I had to make tea and coffee for everybody, and I was rubbish at making coffee. So I think I never would have survived as a runner. And then luckily, the BBC came calling. So I was very, very fortunate. I got a job at the BBC as an assistant film editor. So I was working on TV series, documentaries, and very fortunate actually that I got to work on the first ever BBC co-production of feature films. They do a lot of them now, but this was the first one they ever did with HBO.

4:23Rob:So that was the first thing. And then I moved to Hong Kong and the plan was I was only going to come here for six months. and that was goodness it was 32 years ago yeah so here in Hong Kong excuse me so I've worked as a producer and a studio director so I work with all the major publishing companies preparing and producing all of their audio requirements for their listening materials so people like McMillan's Oxford University Press, Pearson Longman's, and then also working as a voiceover artist myself. And then I set up my business, All Voice Talent, and that was a voiceover agency and a voice coaching organization.

5:14Rob:So, but really, I think for the last 15 years, I've been devoting my, personally, myself to actually coaching in the corporate space. So really, as you said, helping good speakers to become great speakers. So that's my journey. Fascinating.

5:31David Pope:And you would have come across some incredible people along that journey, particularly very international as well. So I guess at what point did you realise how important our voice is to successfully communicate?

5:43Rob:I guess it would have started at the BBC because working in the cutting rooms, working, mixing audio, just listening to actors, listening to the way that they use their voice to basically connect to the audience, you know, inhabit a character and have that charisma. So that was really where it started. And then I think, as I mentioned, the work that I was doing as a producer and a director, so I would be working with a lot of voiceover talent for like TV commercials, corporate videos, and I'm getting them to be able to use their voice to sell a product. So that's really, really important. You've got to have a good voice to sell the product.

6:29Rob:And I think now, you know, thinking about, well, actually, I worked out recently, I've spent about 30 ,000 hours in recording studios over the course of my career. And so using that experience to bring this now to the many legal professionals that I work with. And so voice for them is obviously incredibly important. You know, managing partners, getting them ready for global presentations, partners. Sometimes I'm working with them, getting them ready for conferences, pitches, podcasts even. And also like senior associates, managing associates, working with them on partner selection process. So I think, you know, in the world of business, you've really got to understand how you can use your voice to really stand out and get noticed.

7:20Rob:So that's really, you know, all the way through voice has been such a focal part of my life.

7:26David Pope:Yeah. And it's, you know, I'm just reflecting on what you're saying there. It's your tool, isn't it? It's an important tool as part of your, you know, your overall makeup of, you know, how you present yourself, obviously your other skills in your toolbox, so to speak, but this is really powerful. And you run CBD accredited workshops for legal professionals specifically. So can you share what those workshops offer and how do they benefit those specifically again in the legal industry? I know you touched on it, but tell us a bit more.

7:52Rob:My first CPD accredited workshop was about 15 years ago. This is one that I co-wrote and it was called Gravitas Voice and presence. Now, I was very fortunate to be able to have this CPD accredited here in Hong Kong by the Law Society. And then that got accredited in Singapore, and then down in Victoria in Australia, and also New South Wales, and then moved across to Dubai. So the government of Dubai have accredited it. And of course, the Law Society of the UK. And so the workshops that I've done, and you're probably very familiar with people who are fee earners in the legal space, they're probably not allowed to, not probably, they're not really allowed to spend a lot of time in training rooms.

8:42Rob:So I'm very sensitive to that situation. So what I did was I created workshops that really looked at the one hour, the two hour and the three hour. And so a lot of the people that I'm working with, but not just lawyers, you know, I'm working with business development people, with back office staff, they need fast, quick, actionable tips. So the workshops I've developed, they're like public speaking, master your voice and presence, storytelling for business, pitching, mastering and speaking on panels as well. So lots of things. And all of my workshops are very interactive. So people are learning on the go, as I said, fast, actionable tips.

9:29Rob:I'm giving them exercises to do. They work in pairs. We're doing assessments. We're doing group work. So it really comes together. You know, I'm wanting to give people as much as I possibly can in the small time allotted. And interesting, actually, one of the Magic Circle law firms a few years ago, they asked me if I was able to create some online video resources as well. So what I did was I created three online video courses. So they're on my website as well. So people, if they're not able to do the in-person workshop with me, then I'm covering all bases so they can actually study with all of that.

10:13Rob:So, you know, not only are they learning these fast, actionable tips, but a lot of law firms, they are bringing me in to be part of maybe a larger development program that they're doing. So I kind of slot in if it's maybe like an off-counsel retreat as talking about business development, if they're doing a learning week. These workshops, They're standalone, but I'm also working with a lot of firms who bring me in. Maybe they have a learning week or they have a program they're doing with their lawyers or partner selection or of counsel retreat. So that would typically be something like a blended learning program where I work with them on a workshop.

11:04Rob:And then afterwards we do maybe one on one follow ups. In fact, I recently, well, actually two days ago, I just got back from Shanghai where I was running a blended learning program for a US law firm doing that. So lots of things touching on many areas that I know from experience that legal professionals need and they want.

11:27David Pope:Yeah, absolutely. And just thinking of retreats, we've done, we've been the media partner for the lawyers retreat, the inaugural one in Ibiza last year. And I think what you would do for things like that would be incredible. I want to dig on the one-to-one coaching because you have experience of doing this with thousands of legal professionals across the globe. What do you hope for them to really learn from your one-to-one coaching sessions?

11:48Rob:So, yeah, I mean, I created this because, again, it was listening to the market because I was getting calls from people. So so people in the legal space, people in business development, senior associates saying things like I've got to speak at conferences and I'm not confident. People say that my voice is too quiet. I don't have the confidence to stand up and speak in front of lots of people. And I realized, as I mentioned earlier, with all the work that I've been doing in recording studios, that I had the techniques and experience to be able to bring something together for this one on one. So what I did was I created a voice coaching program.

12:31Rob:It's called the Voice Intensive Program. And I deliver this in Hong Kong. We have a professional recording studio and I also do it in boardrooms and I do it online as well. So, again, covering all bases. So my whole modus operandi is record, playback, analyze. So I get people to bring in work related material. I've also created a manual. So in tandem, I'm working together with somebody and it's really creating bespoke training for them because, you know, everybody has their own specific nuances of the voice, particular areas that they want to work on. But overarching, some of the things that they'll learn when I'm working with them is, for example, the science of the voice.

13:23Rob:So that's about it's about pitch. It's about articulation, about projection of the voice. It's about the breathing, the breath control. So that's the science of the voice. Then we do vocal variety. So that's intonation, pacing, pausing, stress and also volume. And then the final piece, of course, is the presence as well. We mustn't forget the presence. Presence definitely goes in tandem with the voice. So it's really about learning, you know, trying to put all of these things together. And this helps people to communicate effectively and above all authentically as well. Yeah.

14:04David Pope:And I think that's what we're all looking for, myself included, really effective, authentic communication that helps build trust. It helps with yourself, your personal brand, all of those things as and when you show up in vocal, I'm sorry, visual and indeed online. Yeah. Yeah. Vocal challenges, which I was just having then. What are some of the most common vocal challenges you come across when actually working with executive clients? What are the common ones that people think? Oh, that's me.

14:28Rob:OK, so there are there are many common ones. But actually, as you mentioned before, you know, because I've worked with many, many people globally. Right. And this is across a huge range of industries. And from this experience, it's actually it's not just voice. There are three things that will help you stand out as an exceptional communicator. The first is absolutely your voice. So is your voice engaging? Is it inspiring? Is it captivating? The second is your presence. So are you able to command the attention of a single listener or an entire room? And the third piece is about the message itself.

15:12Rob:So are you delivering a message that is inspiring, that is sort of educating, getting people to take action? So actually, it's not just the voice. So if we're talking about an engaging voice, typical things are that I come across is are we speaking too fast? Is our voice pitch too high? Are we speaking too quietly? So that's the first thing in terms of the voice in presence is is our posture open? What about eye contact? You know, all of these things. And then the final thing is the delivery of the message. So are you doing, you know, with legal, right? Is it like a data dump of information, you know, very technical language legalese?

16:01Rob:Or is your message crafted in such a way that it's inspiring? So yes, there are common traits vocally, but actually it's all of these three things that come together. That's what's important.

16:14David Pope:So David, what would be your top three tips for someone looking to have a more engaging voice?

16:21Rob:We make judgments about people based on the sound of the voice. And so just like we make judgments about other people, people are making judgments about us. So I would say the three top things, the top tips is, first of all, pacing. Lots of people that I work with, they speak really, really fast. There's nothing wrong with fast speaking per se, but if you are trying to maybe impart information which is quite complex, you have to slow down. So that would be my first tip is we need to think not speaking slowly all the time. That's kind of boring, but we need to think about varying the pace, slowing down for important pieces and complex pieces of information.

17:10Rob:And then just generally speeding up for the less important. The second thing I would say would be eradicating filler words. I'm working with managing associates at the moment on this partner selection program. So I'm doing a lot of interviewing and a lot of presenting practice. And some of the words that are constantly coming up are things like, you know, like, sort of. And somebody that I was working with recently is always using the word obviously. So if you think about that, you know, you're speaking in front of a board. You're trying to argue your position as a partner to come up to partner.

17:52Rob:And you're saying, well, obviously, it's a bit difficult. got, you need to get rid of those. So thinking about getting rid of filler words. And I think the final piece would be intonation. So intonation, the rising and the falling pitch of the voice, because again, a lot of people, well, they'll come to me and they say, David, I sound boring. I mean, that is a judgment. The fact is they're just not using intonation. They're quite monotone in their delivery. So if somebody is learning to use intonation a little bit more, it brings energy to the delivery. So those are the three things I would definitely say to be an effective speaker, just work on those.

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19:16David Pope:So help is always there when you need it most. it's no wonder clio consistently receives five-star ratings for its ease of use and top-notch service if you're ready to leave frustration behind visit clio.com forward slash uk to learn more and see why clio continues to be the go-to choice for solicitors across the uk now back to the show thank you for being so granular in in the detail i'm sat here thinking there's more that i could be doing um to ensure that i'm working on this as a podcast host so you know many leaders though, David. Obviously, fear, as I just said there, obviously, sounding authoritative.

19:52David Pope:So that might mean losing warmth, in their opinion. So how can someone actually still project confidence and stay authentic?

20:01Rob:There was some research done recently, actually, by CTI, which is the Centre for Talent Innovation. And this research was looking at executive presence, and what were the core elements of executive presence. And what this research found was that 67 % of the leaders who were surveyed said that Gravitas was the core element of executive presence. So what's this got to do with voice? So I mentioned that I run this workshop, Gravitas Voice and Presence. And what I do is I play audio samples of people, and I'm getting people to understand the nuances of the voice. Are there speakers who are coming across with too much authority?

20:45Rob:And are they dominant? Because I think it's a cliche, you know, this voice of leaders, they're deep, they're strong, they're authoritative. That to me is not what this, you're talking about, you know, the losing warmth. You lose that warmth if you've got that type of voice. So for me, what I'm always talking to people about is the balance, the balance of authority in the voice. So yes, that is that pitch, but also the warmth that comes down to that volume and that connection with people. So there's authority, there's warmth, there's confidence in the delivery, and also there's energy as well. And this comes back to that intonation.

21:30Rob:And the fact is, we need to ask, is our voice inspiring and is it engaging? And this, this is the idea that leads to the authenticity piece. If we're trying to balance all of these things, the authority with the energy, the confidence with the warmth, then we're going to sound much more authentic. People try too hard to sound authoritative and it doesn't work. We can see through that, right? We all hear that sort of rather phony voice.