Legally on the Move: Festival of Entrepreneurs - Piers Linney - E01

0:00Welcome to the Legally On The Move Festival of Entrepreneurs mini-series recording live here from the Birmingham NEC. We are going to be diving into some of the sharpest minds across the UK, some of the top CEOs, some of the top cutting-edge businesses for an exciting, fast-paced series. So stay tuned, get excited, and looking forward to delivering even more from the show.

0:26welcome to the legally speaking podcast recording live here at festival entrepreneurs and i'm joined by here's lennie a former dragon and co-founder of implement ai and we're also joined by destiny robot follow on linkedin she's our robotics associate we've just been training actually just fell over so we had to pick her back up but um this is a kind of the current state of the art instead of humanoid. Cheers, indeed. Very, very impressive. And Piers has been on the show before, so go and check out his full-length episode on the Legally Speaking podcast. But we're actually doing a panel session today on the impact of AI.

1:01And I know it's something you're very passionate about. What are most people getting wrong when it comes to implementing AI? They're not implementing it. They're talking about it, you're not doing it. So the point here is you've got three, five, three years, really, to get your head around it and start implementing it. And it's not about getting rid of people. You know, in 20 years, who knows what we're all going to be doing. Right now, it's about augmenting yourself, your team, the resources you've got, the finite resources you've got with AI to get more done. And really, it's about, we focus on our business, really, helping our customers grow revenue.

1:38So reactivating customers, looking after customers' capacity. AI can do things that humans can't do. At a velocity and pace, they can't do it. At times, they can't. out of hours for example weekends and the last one's experience it's really about how to use ai to create better experiences for your customers prospects what we find though is that when you start using it and implementing it all the lights go on and then all of our customers and all their teams all say to us amazing i didn't know i could do that can we have more so the first step is the most important step yeah but it's going to transform the way you operate your business yeah and one thing you talk about very passionately is we're in the dial-up stage dial-up phase and so again for people who probably didn't follow the transition from dial-up to cloud and were kind of left behind you're trying to say i'm old yeah yeah right what i'm trying to say is how can people stay educated and informed to ensure that they get onto this wave because you talk a lot about the ship leaving the harbor so to help those people what do they need to be doing to ensure that they can get on the wave and actually still be productive so we call it the frontiers right yeah so you've got the pr frontier all the noise my mom i go i see my mom she's like i have a cup of tea what's what's deep seek i said my mom it's 85 so you know kind of ignore that to some extent it's out there it's interesting but the next one in is a jagged technological frontier and that's where you should take note of it right that's where you look at like a sora 2 video yeah hollywood you know it's got a problem right so if you're a copywriter it's kind of do what you're doing in some ways if you're a plumber it's a long way before destiny here is going to be under a sink fixing a pipe but that's going to happen so depending where you are what you do it's effectively it's jagged yeah now take note of that because that frontier will rapidly become what we call the operational frontier yeah where this works it adds value it's a meaningful measurable ROI in your business and it changes how you can operate so those things happen very very quickly and it's accelerating so take notes and take baby steps start small but think big yeah okay and you're a former lawyer yourself um if people are watching this a lot of our audience obviously is legal people what should they be thinking about in terms of careers and skills and staying abreast of what's going on oh so i'm a qualified lawyer right i was a city lawyer um and we've got a couple of several actually now legal clients at implement ai and they're looking at in different ways so we're not focusing and really worrying too much about the regulated activity it might be law it might be health care it might be financial services but everything else around that like any other business whether it's prospects marketing complaints compliance whatever it might be of sales you can use ai to augment your current team and your resources so if you're a law firm like any other organization start thinking about what workflows and processes can we use ai in to automate and to improve it make it better and in time you'll see the other you know drafting you know we work with clio yep so clio you know they can now start drafting things lots of these softwares are going to start doing that and it's going to transform what lawyers do if you're why is a law firm going to start to accrue that's what you do isn't there junior lawyers so you've got to start thinking it's pyramid of value and it's going to be filled with tech and you the lawyers are going to move to the top and add more value to your client because that's where you're going to win not doing all the grunt work that i used to do and then to to push you as a former dragon you know as someone who's very entrepreneurial open-minded what's a wild prediction you have in your head that you perhaps haven't vocalized before that's going to happen or you think it's going to happen um cognitive labor is going away within 10 years and then 10 years after that physical labor is going away and what people don't get you know that before right is the internet is going away your ai will talk to other ais we'll be surfing the internet searching for stuff so the way we communicate e-commerce is all going to fundamentally change okay and more of a a sort of parental question i guess we know we're all in business but the world is changing if you're a parent of a sub five year old right now what should you be thinking about to ensure that they're going to be alive and awake to what's going on in the future well if you've got a five-year-old we probably find they're going to be alive for 200 years because they're going to solve aging they're going to solve nuclear fusion probably maybe not in my lifetime sadly um just is very impressed with that so they're gonna in a world where we live longer we're healthier there's abundant energy um it's going to be a very different world i don't think work will exist in the way it does today so it's going to be a fundamental different society and economy and what you've got to teach them really is is i hear this a lot right it sounds obvious but it's the it's the soft skills it's the how do you use technology to be better whatever whatever you are happen to be good at how do you augment it there's no point fighting against it because as i said at the start this technology ai robotic robotic a bodied ai is like dial-up internet this is day one it's the worst i'm in ai i say it's rubbish because it is because tomorrow it's better next week is better in a year's time it'd be fundamentally better again it's moving very very quickly so your kids have got to really start thinking about how they're going to live in a world where work actually isn't what defines you yeah very true and finding purpose okay piers and where can people go to find out more about implement ai so you get the implement ai website implement ai.io we do weekly webinars as well a lot of content on there white papers demos and also talk to lexi website click on services and have a conversation with our ai agent and just experience first hand the power and capability of them there we go and also if you use the hashtag legally speaking implement we will then make sure that we can introduce you to peers and you'll get a good introductory offer all right thanks so much for joining us here on the legally speaking podcast live we're about to go on stage over and out.

7:44Hello, I'm the proud host of the League of Speaking Podcast, which is the number one podcast for law in the UK. And we are sponsored by an organization called Clio. We're a three billion dollar legal tech unicorn business. And we've been taking a show around the world since 2019. I'm excited to be on this panel today where we're talking all things impact AI with impact, how founders are using it to scale smarter. And we have a star studied panel who are going to introduce yourself from left to right now and then we're going to jump into today's discussion so please introduce yourself. Thanks Robert, good afternoon everyone my name is James Smith I'm a tech entrepreneur and funder and I'm currently CEO of a business called Critical Cloud.

8:27We're helping transform modern cloud operations for high-growth SaaS businesses. Thank you very much. Hello everybody my name is Dominic I'm the co-founder of Clever Fox AI. We're an AI transformation agency based in sunny Brighton. We support businesses on their AI transformation journey right through from it and it's in consulting through design, build and optimization. Good afternoon everyone my name is Sabrina I'm the founder of ChooseMafia. We build personal brands using and accelerate through AI growth. All with BBC One of the Apprentices for any Law of Sugar fans in the audience and And specifically, how do you increase and amplify your brand online so that you can get accelerated across your competitions?

9:12I'm Pierce, All the Dragons, doing a bit of TV. But the day job is I'm the co-founder and exec chairman of Implement AI with shoes. So we help companies implement AI. We've got platforms. So we basically supply digital workers, sales for customer success, QTUs, analytics, organisation from all sectors, all sizes, from Ciglon and Revenue to a certain Ciglon. Fantastic. So as I said, very star-studded panel joining you today. And there's a lot of hype around AI. So what I'm going to try and do as the moderator today is make this very practical and tactical so there's at least a few things you can go away and immediately implement things to your businesses.

9:52So Piers, I'm going to come to you first. When founders talk about being AI first, what are the key design principles they should adopt from day one to actually be stop being involved in the legacy model was a copy already using the big thing really one is if you're really started from scratch you should be really thinking about us a I for now what does that mean so that doesn't mean creating some fully autonomous organization we're not quite there yet but we say is you've got to think about where is it today where is it reliable where can you create a meaningful measurable ROI what process them worth flows you'll actually automate the way in which you know that's to go do what they're supposed to do so you can play in the kind of R &D space where to usually tech that's not quite there yet but it is essentially huge ROI replay in the box where in that jaggy technology frontier depending what you do where you are you need technology that absolutely works.

10:50So if you're already got a business, start to automate it, but don't try and bore the ocean. Start small, think big. I'm telling you now, you've got to start thinking about whether you are 1 million of you, up to 10 million of you, wherever you are, you've got to start thinking about how do you move towards AI per, the composition, either the incumbents or the new entrants, the founders, say are going to be AI and furs. They're going to have a splendid third sense of people you've got in your business so you cannot compete on margain so that's the way the world's going the question is i mean we'll get there for lawyer well james i'm going to come to you because you have scale of multiple tech ventures over the years so how can sas companies specifically on digital agency integrate ai without disrupting their existing cloud operations so i think there's a couple things to think about the first thing is to look in the full system's block going already Typically it's a similar approach to getting standard of automation so harping out the processes and the workflows as Ope has said is a great place to start and it's part of that really understanding the data you've got and where that data sits and kind of looking at how you're processing that information and what's available to you.

12:07So that's the first thing I think the piece of advice we just heard is don't trade your everything at once. So the the next stage once you've got those wordpress marked out and understand what data you need inside them is to start small. Pick an area where it's quite old touch to get involved, maybe some reporting elements, maybe kind of some custom and gear plan activities but something that's not too mission critical where you kind of you know get used to what you're trying to transform and ultimately it's something you can measure. Once you start to deploy some machine intelligence and some machine learning intervals.

12:44And then the third thing after that is thinking about having to scale at it. So I think big perspective, you know, wave migration, finding, so taking pilot after pilot after pilot and moving that into production one at a time. It's normally a good recipe. It's habit. Once you start digging your toe in and you're seeing traction, it becomes more of a habit, becomes more native, becomes more confident. All right, James, thanks for sitting there patiently and spring come to you in a moment as well. Please can you share with the audience here what AI governance is and why it's important and how business owners sat in the room can use it to enable safe and effective AI adoption.

13:24So yeah, we're going to be hearing over the next proper days about all the wonderful things that AI can do with our businesses and I'll be sharing some of that in my presentation tomorrow. The reality is there are some risks and as business owners we need to address those, as litigators, and make sure that we're not fire advising for the Zeld Road. So, an AI government framework enables you as a business to do three things, to adopt AI safely, compliantly, and confidently. And you need all three, it's really important. So, on the safety side, as business owners, we've all seen the news stories of, there's a security breaches, and your IT being leased by rogue AI, or a member of your team using AI irreversibly.

14:09So as part of a government framework, we have some tools and resources and press pods and data that prevent us from happening. So for example, we might have an AI model register. So everybody in the team knows which tools they can and can't use and in which way. You would also have an accountability matrix. So again, everybody in the organization knows who is responsible for which data flows and which tools. so that's the kind of safety side on the compliance side it's a bit of a gray area because we don't have a UK AO at Adietz and we were promised it by the government in the screen probably enough they haven't got around to it so they're promising that by May a size of 26 but we can't sit around waiting for them to do something useful we have to be proactive the business age right so So while we design our governance frameworks, for our customers, we are aligning it with the ISO 43001 standards and also the EU AI app.

15:09So when a UK legislation comes through, it will probably be somewhere in the same two. And so we used to get those frameworks in place. Now, the third part is crucial, and that's confidence. I clear this with this series and define. We implemented a couple of AI schools. The team started using them, and then they get stuck. and then two of them ask how they pull their boss up how to have to use it so they quietly stop this it and then then you as a business you're wasting the time and the money is left in that information and you're not getting the benefit of the activity and for the vacations that we should be from this ai source so there is a uh training and up skim and park to developments it's really important that you have a register of who has had which traded and what that fellow's skill level is because if your team feel confident then they can empower it naturally you'll be getting full benefit from your AI fast-moving shape yeah no I couldn't agree more I feel to model say for those those habits you've got the infrastructure you've got things into place you feel more confident table or action more things can happen that's really something I'm passionate about it's making me super well I want to move to now is mixing AI personal branding because you've develop what you call a personal ground operating system.

16:23So what does that actually look like in practice again for the founders in the room and how can they use AI to scale their online presence without losing their personal update? I love this topic. Most mistakes that I certainly did myself at the very beginning was I went on for something like tertivity. I tapped in exactly what I wanted at the output and I got something that was half visa and it was just so easy. And right now, especially if you go into LinkedIn, you'll see so much mods. And when we look at using something, when using Chattucketee as a very simple example, is that we kind of start using it without any kind of training.

16:59And that's kind of bringing on a new employee into our team without giving them any background into the business or who we are. So we specifically brought out a personal brand OS, Broketech system. So what this is, is a really intense document. You can probably start during tomorrow and you start feeding it everything about yourself, your tone, your authenticity, what's your story, what kind of things do you like and what kind of things do you not like. Then you also get to the compliance side of things as well. And once you have this, you're able to start scaling. So when you start putting out content, it sounds exactly like you, but you're not putting out noise.

17:38The second level to this is creating one for your brand. so all of your brand guidelines how would you and modern for you and what we can start doing is integrating this into your team so you can say okay team we're going to put together the ultimate document, one for the brand and yourself for your personal brand and they can start speaking to each other so then when you start looking at agents and more no code AI tools you're able to deploy this into organisation without having to start back at the very beginning Love it, very practical tactical Hopefully you have learned something in the first part of this panel session.

18:12If you have, write it down. Biggest tip I can give you for the day. Okay, now we're going to move to scaling smarter. So balancing speed and strategy. Pierce, back to you. Lots of leaders ask about ROI. So how do you measure the value of digital workers in a way that forwards and investors actually buy instant? Remembering the way you used to do it. So I'll say this. You've got three vectors in your business, okay? you've got velocity, variability and value. If you're a loan to median value, humans They can do that to do well, but they're close to the hiring others. AI is a good at loan to media You're not being AI to sell a five-year jet But velocity, velocity is about data, volume AI is very very good at that.

18:56It's like a fighter fighter tracking through the targets You must go do that as AI. And you've got kind of a variability. If somebody's doing lots of different things AI is not very good at that. It's very good at linear, clean, we call them, clean workflows. So if you're high velocity data, low to medium value, low variability, automated AI. If you are high to medium high value, high variability, low velocity, huge. But the current year is everything in the middle is a machine given partnerships. You're augmenting your cells and your human resource. And you measure ROI in two ways, though. One is how to measure today, how to increase your ROI.

19:38But also what we find in this, give an example, we put it up, we understand. You've got a company, Retrubber, construction recruitment. Their company is 2 ,000 people in their database. They've got four people on the phone, they're every day. They can cover 5 ,000 a year, and that's by AI calls 3 ,500 people in three hours. as 650 conversations and box 50 jobs. Their problem in their business now is not the flipping ROI on their buy-by, it's are they now second to all the issues, are they dealing with that deal with their business? We're going to start thinking about also ROI as it is, but also we're going to have to re-engineer our business when we start implementing this, Henry.

20:20Another example, we have a very large national pharmacy train using data. You've got a lot of data. If you're not recording everything in your business, I hear everything. Hour, beating, video calls, phone calls, record, everything. Now you rehearse it, you analyze it. So we have a national pharmacy, 30 million prescriptions a year. What AI can now do with the ROI is we'll know and know the dashboards. You'll know unknown things you're going to look for in your data. You'll know unknown unknowns, things you don't know you need to make. We said to me, I look at integrated data and he's bound, if they pick 83 different conditions, take out one which is contraception, you can get blood pressure tests, contact those people, put them in the pharmacy and then they're back in to get their prescription.

21:08We know when they're going to go back in, the car is a lentic. That's a£400 million business and he found a£4 million hard living opportunity with a 75 grand cost. That's it. That ROI is up the chart. with stock don't think about the current ROI think about what is the answer possible it can get into men this love it and the Venki again give me such clear crystal examples and it just shows the possibility of what actually if you take that approach with an open mindset and take action on what cash achieves your business okay James coming back to you critical car blends AI tooling with human in the loop engineering so how do you see the balance between AI automation and human expertise are bolding?

21:49Yeah I think the key point there is human in the loop so that's that's crucial that's the center of the way we think about AI and that really means AI enhancement not human replacement ultimately so we're taking really smart capable deep domain expertise and using AI to really enhance the capabilities and the efficiency. So let me bring that to life a little bit. One use case for example in our world is we're taking millions of logs and millions of data points from different cloud systems bringing those into our tooling that allows our engineers to spot trends and patterns super quickly. That's not possible for human to do across a data set of that nature.

22:35But what AI is not very good at is the reasoning and judgment about what it does with those decisions after it's kind of identified by the art and it's in the trend. And so we need a human in the loop at that point to look at the output from that information and then can they make an educated context of their decision around that. So that's one example. Second one is taking that deep domain expertise with fine training models, with lots of documentation, history and context around how they can make decisions based on response to failure as an example, right? but we don't want to let those agents go away and just make those decisions without having safety net to remember.

23:19So again, when an agent makes a decision that it wants to take something, there's a human in the loop that will send that decision. So we're using the humans in that instance to kind of add the safety net at the moment but also to keep adding additional context onto the capability so that as we kind of move forward in this AI journey, need. I think reasoning and judge-run is something that's definitely in our future with AI. For us, it's about supercharging humans and not replacing them. Hopefully some examples all of us can relate to and again go away and live to take action off the back of today's panel.

23:55Dominic, coming to you, could you give me maybe one or two examples of custom AI automation or systems that Trevor Fox AI has actually built that entrepreneurs with limited AI knowledge can easily understand? Actually, Piers has already alluded to provide a use case. So I'll give you a similar use case in a different sector. What we want AI to do ultimately is a few things. We want it to help us monetize our form of data. We want it to free off our teams from doing the tasks they hate. And we want it to automate the customer tasks, right? So the AI voice agents are really powerful with this. So we're selling these into the estate agency market.

24:35Every estate agency has a team of people or an agency calling their database, customers to see if they're planning to move house. They've got a load of listings they need to sell or rent. It's every estate agent's least favorite job. They normally get the junior in Black Skies to do it. They end up designing the system as a job. Well, I'd recommend 99 % of those calls are no, throw away, never a way why I'm calling me. But every now and then, every 500 calls, someone says, yes, I'm the landlord. So, to give it example, we've got a customer with seven branches, they've got 40 ,000 people in their database, and they've got three whole time employees so eight brand a month payroll and they're just I'm in this list of it I say we could only do 80 dog a day or whatever that is we can now run and they always say did to do a thousand food today or whatever is number you want it doesn't get upset when people say where to go and it went that one 500 customers you say yes I am interested in it all week that a voice agent was able to have a pop from a season and pin it pin it that fall to to the role of the person.

25:35So it's freeing up the team, actually it would generate doings that the human team could go and do, that's the in-person software we should be doing. Plus receiving the call doesn't care if it's an I or a person, it's just no go away, whatever, don't care too importantly. And the estate agency proofily in their melds with data, there's a few nuggets pulled in there. And typically with a human special way and acts of that melds in data you can only honor so much. The AI can go through like the one that's it, power-based, through that mountain data and express every last bit of bulk. And that's really decisive.

26:09Have a lot to wrap up another one? Absolutely, please. So another really, how the thing that we do in Mottolf is automating legacy worlds most. Most businesses have run their business in the same way for the last 25 years, been in the SaaS era. And so I'll give you an example in the veterinary sector. if you take your job and you chat with it who's coming next what is it in operation is it vaccination that's manual processing the data it is very inefficient so of course now a click of a button the AI will produce a two parallel relevant summary saving the vet the score which he can use temple history then at the end of the consultation you'll get six computer tries to remember what said tracked in manual it be did this is what happened but again now we run an audio folding through that consultation you capture all of the data, not just what the vet can remember.

26:59That is unstructured data, transcript. We then take that unstructured data, the AI tells it is structured data, it's of relative fields which you can then search across. By the time you get back to the car with your cat or dog, you've got an email, thanks. Hi Mr. Doss, wait to see you today. Also, it's an email. Betsy's had this vaccination, she's a six-month-old. So the patient gets better care that could be kept being with the data and the vet saves about two hours for your ability day and the vet group is saving in this case they've got 200 vex across four organizations two hours away for that per that's 1.7 million pounds with salary time sake what i love about this we'll all see headlines data is a new goal but these are practical examples of how this data becomes forming businesses and it's really exciting and get our heads around this.

27:49So again, if you do have questions, we're hopefully going to be allowing a few at the end. Please do get them ready and we'll try and come to you. Now, Sabrina, coming to you. Many founders fear AI will make them feel less human. We'll talk about human in the loop and here's just talking about fabric human. How do you advise leaders to keep authenticity when scale? When you're looking to build your brand as a founder and you use AI to accelerate that process, You're ultimately expanding your teeth. So providing that you create your personal roundup rating system, you're already showing your score, your values, your tonality, and what you stand for.

28:29And then you're creating the values and you're scaling this out. My prediction is that within two to three years, every single one of us will have a digital AI twin. And the only question here is not if we have one, it's whether it sounds like you and actually represents you. Because there's so much noise right now on the internet, and there's so much content, hopefully you're putting out a little bit of content too. It's either gonna create an AI version from what's already out there, or you're able to create what's there. So imagine that you, everyone's going to voice now. So when you have an idea, something happens, it's maybe you had a interesting call for the team member, we feel super motivated on a Tuesday morning.

29:12You voice note this, then my team take that voice note, We put it through something that's trans-albumin AI. And there's a ton of automations, and we have an AI agent. He's able to take that content, duplicate it in the way that I want to be shared, based on everything that I've previously done over my last thousand posts, so that it sounds exactly like me. So going into AI, I feel if we're scared around authenticity, then we're actually fearing AI, and it's the fear that's stopping us behind. So AI's not here to replace us as a personal brand. is here to accelerate the values, providing that we give it the values of the story that we like to.

29:49And that's the biggest mistake, I think. I also think anyone in the next six months, like this is all six-month window, you have six months to go across because all the carrot creators and founders who are already building their brands will just accelerate the AI because they'll be able to leverage what's already there. So without stepping in now, you're going to go not only massively in competition with the big names already, will also be attention competition with the AI set coming up for creating online events. So if you have anything to take away from today, I do talk about this in my keynote, it's how do you use the next six months to double down, create those online versions of yourself, leverage so that you're so far behind otherwise in six months that it will be really really hard to catch up.

30:36Yeah, really well said. Again some great examples so we're gonna move into the third part of the and final file of the panel. Just to recap, we started with from fight to impact, making AI practical. Then we moved into scaling smarter. I think I have tons of examples across the panel there, balancing speed with strategy. We're now going to talk about future-proof growth with AI. If you did learn some nuggets from the last piece, write them down now. Go and take action on them. So if you had to redesign workflows in a very heavy, slow-moving industry, you and I have law, finance, healthcare, where would you start to unlock AI's value the quickest?

31:11For everyone, I think more for example, everyone's fixated on the regulated activity, but I'm just servicing, diagnosis, more, everybody. We're kind of more though. That's an expert. We've got a company trying to do that, ranging billions of millions. But every organisation has a very similar work, by the end of the day. By the sales, marketing, by the HR support, it might be customer success, the lower the confines, onboarding. It's kind of, the point was made actually. Look at the workflows and my bottom left box and my two by two meters, yeah. The tech trucks are the decent ROI. And the key is this, is look about a pyramid like that, right?

31:51And it's being filled, this is a global revolution with technology. And then the tools, now the tools, the intelligence can use the tools and it's putting that pyramid. So we collectively as individuals and as businesses have got to move to the top and add more value using technology, not fighting it. If that's a button, you are going to lose. And the point was made about, look, all of a sudden Dave is anyone that I'm saying, you can't do this, it won't do that, you're keeping to do with. I'm telling you, five years, you're better than us, better, cheater, twaster, smarter than us at any cognitive task.

32:33The only question is, how do you implement it? Do yourself up and your colleagues and the team add real binders, not deliver stuff? Love that. And I always thought about collaborating, collaborating with technology, collaboration, domination. You give a great example there about actually how you could do that on the impacts of the video. I'm probably getting in touch with you with influenza. I don't know, I'm here, I've got a robot. So another 10 years after that, they'll be caring to parents, right? So the embodied AI, they're coming away. So poverty, labor will go away and venture physical. Professor Viewing, in that world, how do you carve out the values?

33:11Something to definitely go away and think about, folks. Okay, James, coming back to you on the end there. With a background in cloud and security, what do founders need to know about keeping AI adoption safe, compliant and sustained? That's a good question. So I think there's a couple of things to think about, but it all boils down to one thing in my opinion right now, and that's visibility, getting observability and across what's going on. So what are these tools doing? You know, we talk about kind of when you're using an LLN model, there's things about tokens, how many tokens are being cost-sessed, how much these things are going to cost.

33:49so getting visibility of the cost, getting visibility of where your data is, not so much about where it's located but where it's actually being processed. You hear a lot about security and compliance and one of the things that sort of catches people out is you're feeding kind of information into some of these tools whether it be a chat pop, whether it be on you know chat gpt through the browser that information is going off somehow to be processed and it may not be in the region or location you quite expect it to be. So understanding really where that data is going, flowing is very important and that allows you to put the governance in.