Personalising High Performance in Law: The Athlete Mindset by Certified Coach Grace Williams - S9E40

0:00When you are happy, when you are loving what you're doing, and it might be that you love what you're doing outside of work, the energy that you carry then completely shifts when you just feel good. Lawyers are like athletes. We expect ourselves to think clearly, perform at our highest level, put so much pressure on what we're doing. But the thing that they're missing is we're not thinking about the internal. We're only ever focusing on output. Athletes, their biggest flex is that they know that their body is their greatest asset. Ultimately, it's their body that will get them the results. if they are not fueling, recovering and managing their stress and even don't have that team around them, they're not going to run the 100 meters as fast as they want to.

0:36And they know that. For me, well-being is do you feel at peace and can you feel present in every task you're doing, not just the ones that you intentionally bring presence and peace into. On today's Legally Speaking podcast, I'm delighted to be joined by Grace Williams. Grace is a certified health and nutrition coach, a former White and Case associate. she has experienced the high-pressure environments of working in a US law firm. Grace's mission is to support high-performing individuals' personalized nutrition and lifestyle strategies, all whilst developing their energy, resilience, and well-being.

1:08So a very big warm welcome to the show, Grace. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be here. Oh, it's an absolute pleasure to have you on the show and equally excited. And before we get into all the great stuff that you're doing in and around the world of law, we do have a customary icebreaker question here on the League Speaking Podcast, which is on the scale of one to 10, with 10 being very real, what would you rate the hit series suits in terms of its reality of the law if you've seen it on a scale of one to 10? I have to say I've seen it, seen it all, loved it. I'm going to give it, you know, I'm going to give it, this is actually such a cop out answer, but I think like a five or a six.

1:47The thing that gets it for me every time is the fashion because Jessica Pearson in her suits with massive sleeves there's no way you'd still be in that at 2am like a lot of us will still be working at the time it's like there's no way to bring that outfit all day so that she they it docks a lot of points for the outfits because you just we can sustain some things but the big sleeves and some of the dresses she was in no way love it and I love a very specific justification for the answer as well I'm here for that but with that we probably should move swiftly on to talk all about you. So to begin with, would you mind telling our listeners a bit about your background and career journey?

2:26Yeah, of course. So I started my career as a lawyer. I was at, well, qualified, trained and qualified at White & Case. I was there for over nearly six years and started out bright-eyed, was so excited. Do you know, I really felt like I found myself when I joined White & Case. I loved the firm. It was one of the only ones I applied to and went through yeah training contract qualified into the arbitration team um but a couple of years into being at White in Case my mum was diagnosed with a brain tumor and then six months later my dad was diagnosed with lymphoma so very quickly my world went from being all about law and like truly I was that classic I didn't make any weekday plans nothing like I was the yes person to everything in the office to having this very split focus and not really knowing where I stood with that um it then you know led me down such a crazy path of trying to balance life as a carer but also being a lawyer never wanting any ball to drop and ultimately I went through my own experience with burnout um which led to six months of work which as a type a perfectionist was like the worst news you could tell anyone that I had to take any time off work.

3:49But it then led me, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today if it wasn't for it, because ultimately, to skip a few steps, but ultimately, after my mum passed away, I went back into law. I was like, right, going to be back proper lawyer. I had this split focus, so excited to be back. But I just had this real tension between a lot of the rhetoric around burnout being about slowing down, stripping back. And then you go back to a career that is so like, I'm ambitious. I want to be busy. I was saying yes to everything. It was like, oh, but there's this fear around what if I burn out again? And it just felt like these two worlds were so separate.

4:30And I really struggled with it mentally. And ultimately, it led me to set up my own business. I retrained and then now work with lawyers and professionals to, I always say, to create the internal foundations or to build the internal foundations that will create your external success. Because ultimately we can, we know we can achieve that external success, but how do we feel while we're doing it? How well are we supporting our bodies? And it was always the piece that was missing for me. I can keep on succeeding. I keep on doing all of these things, but then there was that risk of what's happening around it.

5:05So I've gone through a real journey of being my career is everything to realizing yes my career is everything but I've got to bring in a few little caveats to that of how I'm supporting myself throughout that journey but it's been I love that I still get to be in the legal world despite not being a direct lawyer. Yeah no and firstly thank you for so openly sharing and authentically sharing your journey with us. We really appreciate that. And I fully appreciate how hard those times would have been to you. And equally, you're right, I don't think you can pour from an empty cup. So you need to ensure that you are putting yourself and putting those things around now, as well as obviously trying to balance the career, I guess to go back, just to get a sense of sort of why law originally for you, was there something that sparked you wanting to be a lawyer was there a moment before in life just curious do you know I always at first I felt like a fake lawyer because I hadn't been one of those people since like 15 or like even an early age of like I'm going to be a lawyer it all just really fell into place I'd done some work experience I was out in the states for a couple of summers while I was at university and they were political lobbyists but they'd all trained as lawyers and I loved the fact I was like wow they've got this incredible training, but they've gone and done something different with that training.

6:27But it's the skills that the legal skills that they gained what they were then using in a different area. So I just found that fascinating. And then as I started looking, it was I also I studied history. So it's that classic trajectory from history into yeah, I feel like a lot of us follow that path. But it all kind of came about by chance and things piecing together and realizing where my skill set was what actually I was good at rather than having and actually at that time I'd watched all of Suits and I still hadn't watched Suits and gone I'm going to become a lawyer it was yeah a real like piecing things together and then when I came back and realized that that was a career I could follow and that it gave me and it's interesting because as soon as I joined Wyan Case I never thought I'd leave and whereas now I'm like actually my legal career started because I saw people trained as lawyers but using it in different ways whereas I then joined the law I was like I'm never going to leave this but it's almost how I've ended up or how my trajectory has ended up.

7:26Yeah and look what you're doing currently is incredible and we're going to talk more about that in a moment in terms of really looking after and protecting and helping current professionals and no doubt people that are going to continue to go in through the profession. In terms of a day in the life back then, again, people who might be aspiring to go to a US law firm, talk us through what a day in the life looked like for you. So it was very... Do you know what I love about law? It started late. I'm not a morning person. So it was getting in... Me neither. I mean, I had that morning time, but it was getting in for 9.30, getting to my desk.

8:03And for me, I can't say I had the healthiest day in the life when I was there because I, no matter how much I tried, I didn't really leave my desk. I felt like sometimes like the biggest thing that I could do was go get a coffee from the canteen, rarely left the office itself when I first started. And when I then qualified and was sort of in the dispute world, every day was so different because some days it'd be very insular work where you're just working on a submission, working on a pleading. Other days, it was like a lot of meetings, maybe witness interviews. And so it was always very fluid.

8:38But I'm someone that does love routine. And I think if there is someone aspiring to join a US firm, knowing whether you are someone that loves spontaneity, like off the cuff, suddenly something coming in last minute, or whether you like a very sort of steady stream of things is actually really important, because ultimately transactional, you don't really know what's happening week to week whereas I kind of knew my schedule for a good few months because of being in that dispute side of course emergency and random things would come in last minute but it was a lot more you had a lot more foresight over what your week could look like so you had a bit more control over how you structured it um but in terms of the US like being in the law firm every day was so different but for me I will say it was breakfast lunch and dinner at my desk or in the office.

9:25I was so lucky that I had a really great cohort of trainees that we sort of qualified together. So I never mind because it was like, you were all there together. You were sort of in it. And yes, it was late nights. But you know, I think the reality of it has changed so much with the working from home element. I think back when it was like Monday to Friday in the office versus now having that slight flexibility to work from home, people have more of a say over like where doing the work and all that kind of thing which I think is a really welcome change but um yeah every day was so different but it was always full-on but then do you know also what I will say about a private practice over um saying being in house or something you have that flexibility around there might be like 4 p.m you might have a couple of hours where actually you're quite quiet versus I feel like other roles can be very like you're nine till five or nine till six every single day whereas there is this sort of like yes you might be working late but actually you might have had a really quiet morning or a quiet afternoon it's not as doom and gloom as everyone thinks it is of like you're never going to breathe or sleep again there's a lot more sort of nuance and flexibility around the schedule of the day versus oh you're on a structured nine till seven which actually doesn't suit me at all i liked that sort of chop and change a little bit yeah and like probably when you get those downtime moments double down on enjoying them right and make sure you probably go out there and do things that you probably haven't had a chance to do.

10:53Okay, again, just probably jump into your current situation. People aspire to get into US law firms. What's maybe one hack, one tip you would give them if they're applying either at the early stages to get in as a trainee or as an associate? What's one top tip you would say to help you land those jobs with the US law firms? I say always in the same way that you do with friends, check out whether you want that relationship with the firm in the sense of I felt very at home from the first day that I walked into it in case I went on an open day and it wasn't just oh are they going to pick me I was so passionate about being in that firm because of how I felt when I was there compared to other firms and I don't even know what it was I can't put a finger on it but I think sometimes we get so in our heads around like I hope they pick me and we don't really think are we like are they right for us as well?

11:48Because there are so many firms you can go to. And so really anchor into that energy, like, do you feel good when you're there? And then with that, you and because you cannot do this for every firm you apply to the ones that are really special to you go to everything they do open days, vac schemes, like talk, sign up to as much as they do as possible, listen to their podcast, meet trainees that are already there. But you can't do that when you're applying to and you can still apply to all the firms but get very specific about ones that are like your top ones and double down on like just absorbing everything that they do so that you they know your face like I remember on the vaccine they were like oh hi you came to our open day they remembered that I've been there and that I think that does matter when it's such a saturated market and I know you probably talk about it this all time but LinkedIn presence I think that's a huge thing as well.

12:41Yep, I bang the drum about both of the things you just said. So plus one and thank you for sharing. And again, congratulations on what you achieved once you were in the world of law. So now let's talk a bit more about high performance and well-being. Because tell us about the moment you realized you really wanted to focus on high performance well-being specifically, rather than more of a traditional sort of path. And really, for you, you touched on it from a sort of personal perspective before but was this ever an ambition you had at any other point in your life as well so well-being I think on a personal level has always been very important to me I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis actually like two weeks before I did my vac scheme um and I always joke I had was numb on one side of my body which meant I'd bought a pair of heels to wear on my vac scheme and I they hurt like hell but I couldn't feel a thing so it was great I managed to get through the two weeks but it's well-being was always really important but it then I realized through my own journey and going through burnout that actually I'd let that side feel so separate from my career when actually it was the thing that was going to fuel my career and taking I think the moment it clocked was when I had to stop work and when I look back and realize that six months is not a long time but it at that time six months felt like the biggest hole of like, I cannot believe I'm having to take this.

14:03Like I was too scared to take a gap year before uni type thing. Suddenly it was that you're doing this in your career. And it's the phase return and going back into the firm, phasing back in, it is overwhelming and it's a lot. And so for me that, and looking around when I came back, I could see, I was like, okay, there's people that maybe haven't burnt out and maybe they never will, but they're definitely feeling very similar how I felt before I did burnout. And I think a lot of people were starting to share more around how they were feeling and how stressed they were. And I was just more attuned to the language because of my experience with it.

14:42And so I think it was a slow, I didn't have a one moment thing, but it was a real slow burn of suddenly realizing that these two worlds of well-being, which at the time was very aesthetic and very like, oh, if you go to Pilates and you go for a run, like that makes you your own wellness and that's great and so it felt like two separate identities like that could be your weekend self but that wasn't your monday to friday when you're at work self and so i started how can i bring these two things together like i always say lawyers are like athletes we expect ourselves to think clearly perform at our highest level put so much pressure on what we're doing but the thing that they're missing is we're not thinking about the internal we're only ever focusing on output like what are my results what am i creating athletes their biggest flex is that they know that their body is their greatest asset ultimately it's their body that will get them the results if they are not fueling recovering and managing their stress and even don't have that team around them they're not going to run the 100 meters as fast as they want to run it and they know that and that's what lawyers we sort of miss we don't have that athlete mentality we have it from the like god i'm going to achieve this incredible thing and my output but we don't have it from an internal perspective but it was a slow build I think to get there yeah we're humans right we're not robots we're not programmed to be 24 7 on the go all the time and there is real power in the pause and yeah I think it's a really good way of looking at it like you say with certain athletes also great athletes also have you know coaches and mentors and people around them to get them to the next stage as well um again just going back there's a lot of buzzwords put out there and people could argue well-being's a buzzword so how would you define in practical term what well-being actually is?

16:27For me, well-being is feeling at peace. And the reason why I use that word specifically is because you can feel at peace while sat at your desk drafting a submission because you can feel really happy and content that you're doing it. And you can feel at peace when you're at home with your children, with your family, enjoying a dinner together. When you don't have that peace, you are distracted. You are, your head is elsewhere. You You are stressing about every little thing. Every little inconvenience becomes the biggest thing in the world. And that is the most unpeaceful place to be in. So I burnt out and couldn't have felt further from peace if I tried.

17:04So for me, it's bringing that feeling in of like, well-being is not a state of health. Like, yes, there is that element to it. But it's how you feel while you're doing everything that you do in your day. A big thing that I hear from people is like, oh, it's fine. I'll have a bath when I get home or I've got a massage booked at the weekend. but that just means you're staying in that place of stress from say monday to friday or from 9 a.m until you get home for that bath or whatever time it is when actually there's things that you can bring in so the bath isn't the savior at the end of the day actually you get to be at peace when you're before you even get to that bath that just gets to be an added bonus but yeah for me well being is do you feel at peace and can you feel present in what every task you're doing not just the ones that you intentionally bring presence and peace into i'm just going to pause there because i absolutely love that answer it just really landed with me and it's so true because like you say when you're saying oh i've got a massage or this really that's just putting a plaster over maybe a bigger thing that needs needs needs doing work right and i think we all have to put in the work to ensure that we get to that level like you say of being at peace and genuinely happiness and that's what we of course we all we all strive for so yeah really appreciate you giving some context behind that and I guess that leads nicely to your own coaching style because how did your own journey which again thank you for being so open sharing with us in terms of stress burnout etc how's that influenced your coaching style if at all I think it has massively because ultimately I to sort of bring it back to I remember starting and as a lawyer and we had a talk on stress management and a lot of what we were told with things like make sure you get your eight hours sleep don't eat lunch at your desk like make sure you take your lunch break and we'd all been in the sort of we'd been there for a couple of weeks and we sat there going well I can't do any of that so you tune out to all of it you don't listen to anything and so my coaching style is very much taking what is the science what is the sort of research back things that we should be doing but tailoring it so specifically to the place that you are in and the profession that you are working in because I have that insight over both and can marry these two worlds of I know what it's like to be in the middle of a filing but how can I also be looking after my nervous system my metabolic health and actually tuning into the rhythms of my body that are going to fuel that performance and so very it took me a lot of time to take everything that I was learning on a scientific perspective and be like, but how do I tailor this to the reality of professional lives that actually is missed from that conversation?

19:41Because yes, the ideal is that we can get eight hours of sleep, but when that's not your reality, okay, what are we doing around that to make it the best quality sleep that you can have? And then how are we recovering? Like I think of life in seasons, like it's not day by day, it could just be a busy season, but how are we recovering after that season? And so it's bringing a lot of nuance into the things that we see on social media the things that you listen to on podcasts bringing that nuance and the personalization to i think is one of the most important parts because otherwise you tune out to all of it and go what's the point of even trying like i'm not even going to start um so it's been this real marriage of two worlds and i love how you're laser focused on the individual because we're not all the same you know we do have different drivers we do have different ways of coping with things and the fact that you're very specific you know is obviously a testament to why you're doing so well and looking back from your time in in big law and some of the early days being surrounded by a lot of the high performers out there what were some of the lessons you learned about what drives sustained success particularly in high pressure environments i love that question i think a big part is definitely a passion if i think about the partners, the senior associates that I really admired and looked up to, ultimately, they loved what they were doing.

21:04And they were, you might not love every single task that you're doing, but that bigger mission of what is your goal? And what is it that you're working towards? And when you have that fire behind it, half of energy, there are two components to energy, you have that physical side of energy, so the fuel rest recovery, but you also have vitality. And if you have lost, and very often what I see with my clients is they've lost the vitality piece, which is joy, fulfillment, purpose. For me, when you can bring in that vitality to what you are doing, your energy around it completely changes. It supercharges it and it makes that success sustainable because ultimately you have a deeper why.

21:40And that can go into so many different angles. But I think it's you can be laser focused on something, but having a passion for it. And you know, the passion might not be directly for the end goal that you're working towards. Actually, your passion might be slightly outside of that, but everything fuels it together. And I think it's bringing, and it's what I do with clients. We look at like, where is their purpose within what they're doing? Because even in the smallest ways, you can bring it out and it just changes the energy that you're approaching it with. Because suddenly you can actually come and be like, I'm excited to do this.

22:13And I do think the other part of it is they have systems in place. so there's that side of it but the systems of like they have a structure behind them that allows them to do what they're doing we as you said earlier we are not robots and when you think that you can just get by which and i was like i don't need help i can do it all myself don't don't worry about this and your systems can be people in your team it can then be people around you how are you even when it comes to food what is your structure around food do you have are you having to walk into a supermarket walk into somewhere that you pick up your lunch and make a decision when you're stood there or can you have a formula or structure in place that means that decision is not one you have to make what is it cut by a thousand or something by a thousand cuts or something there's that saying around like every decision you make is actually taking away from the really big ones when you have a structure and a support system your success is uneasy because you get to stay in your zone of genius and then you just have the structure behind you yeah and again i love that and it's so true isn't it like if you make these one percent incremental changes then they compound as well over time and i i always say loads on the show everything is energy i couldn't agree more like if you have that passion you know i always say if you feel whole you're gonna be really passionate about delivering on your goal and i think so many people who perhaps don't find that passion unfortunately don't get to get to levels of success and i think it's so important that you know you really do try and lean into your passion because that will get you through also the challenging times but I also love that you reference systems there as well because the more you can be more efficient the more processes you can run a lot more again leads to your well-being right your overall happiness you're not doing so much of the drudgery of certain certain things okay I want to talk now about your three pillars your three pillar method to build foundations for confidence from inside out tell us about that so this very much came from well always personal experience but actually when I was working with clients and realizing that no matter how different we all are which as you said we are all such individuals ultimately there is a pyramid that we need to be building in order to have the foundations then create the success that we want to and stress resilience is at the bottom of that pyramid because ultimately if the body doesn't feel safe we cannot operate at the level that we want to our gut health is in every part of our body is impacted because all of our systems are diverted to survival which sadly is still thinking that we're running away from that tiger behind us that actually is now our emails the commute whatever it is there's no longer a tiger but the body still thinks it is that and when I see people operating we the goal is to be in that state because stress is not a bad thing there's a really good side to stress that we can use to our advantage particularly when it comes to say a presentation or working on a deadline, that laser focus, we can really harness.

25:05We never want to get rid of stress. But the goal is to spend 80 % of our time in that calm, rest and digest state. But we on average are spending 80 % of our time in our fight or flight stress state. And so without this bottom sort of layer of the pyramid, any top down hack, and this is what I see so often, people are layering a different supplement, a new workout routine, eating differently, cutting out lots of different foods saying oh I'm working on my gut health but if you haven't addressed this foundation of safety you won't feel confident any tool that you'll bring in won't be landing you might feel a little bit of a difference but then you wonder why it stops working it's because the body's just not primed to receive it well-being isn't about what you're doing and how much you're adding it's is your body in a place to truly receive and respond to it so that's where the stress resilience, that safety piece comes in.

25:57And then metabolic and gut health are stress is a drain on your resources. And because it's using so many nutrients, we need so much fuel to be able to stay in a stress state. And so when we are operating from that level, if we're then not giving our body the nourishment and the fuel that it needs, that's when we get depleted. So yes, there's a sleep side of it, which is always important. But actually, we very often forget, what am I eating to fuel this? Because our food is the building blocks, it's the instruction manual, like that's how our body runs and operates is off nutrients. But we just grab things, we don't even think about it, we always take advantage of our food, like we're just like, oh, yeah, I'll just have this, it doesn't matter.

26:37But everything you put in your mouth is an instruction manual to your body. And so without this piece around, how is your body turning food into energy, which then trickles into every area of what you're doing, we're missing such a fundamental piece of the puzzle we can be I'm all about body first you can't out think stress you can't out positive a bad situation when you give the body what it needs your mind will then follow because ultimately 90 % of the communication is going from your gut to your brain you'd think that your brain was controlling everything but if 90 % of that communication is coming from your gut it shows how important food and what you're eating and how you're supporting that really comes into place so holistically together it's this trifecta that just go to that everyday feeling of confidence and just that I've got this like you know when you want to walk in one day and be like I know I can do this I can handle everything in front of me and that's what is really there to um to create change that narrative a bit yeah and I love that sort of um method and thank you for being so thorough and just practical with it all as well I'm just absorbing it all and thinking of things and tweaks that I could be making as well just listening to all of this.

27:48Okay, again, building on what you've shared, you talk about building the internal and physiological foundations to create external success. So what are some of the key physiological foundations? And how do you actually go about helping clients build them? So as I said, we start with this pyramid sort of look of looking at that foundation of safety. That's always the first one. Does your body feel safe? Then it's things like, okay, how is your body responding to your natural biological rhythm so light are you getting light exposure um what is the foods are you eating are they actually is your body able to absorb the nutrients that you are eating is your metabolic health truly primed for that and in terms of how i do it with clients so we always start actually and it comes back to your point around being we're all so different i all my private clients will have um continuous glucose monitor for two weeks because when you are busy and this i'm speaking from my own self like i know that when i'm busy that if someone says what's your body telling you like how are you feeling tune into your body i'm like i don't know i can tell you what's it what it's in the email that i'm reading but i can't tune into my body and so where wearables and technology now is i'm a i come from i love ancient wisdom i think we need to strip it back to basics but where the sort of advancements in longevity technology are so powerful is they give us a gateway into understanding our body when we are so tuned out of our bodies.

29:14Part of the reason why so many of us can get to the point of burnout. And actually, a lot of my clients, we don't use the word stress. Because if I ask someone if they're stressed, they're like, no, I feel great. But when they tell me the symptoms they're experiencing or how their body is reacting, I'm like, okay, there's a little bit of stress going on here. Let's work on this. But we can't identify that we are stressed. So the CGM is not just about your, yes, it's linked to blood sugar, but actually that's giving me more of an insight into your stress response, your sleep, how well your food is balanced.

29:44And it ultimately gives us that like, okay, that's why you couldn't focus at 4pm that day. That's why you had a really bad night's sleep. And we can then pinpoint these specific things because again, we all react to foods so differently. So I can give a blanket statement of like, this is good for your gut health, but it might not be good for yours. We need to see that in data. So I love using the data to really allow clients, it gets clients buy-in as well i think when you see on a graph that something is affecting you and that's why there's an incredible statistics around aura rings wheat bands of like the impact it's had on um the drinking culture because people that have this wearable see how much a glass of wine affects their sleep and they're like oh was that glass of wine worth it so there's been a massive drop in how many people are actually turning to more alcohol-free alternatives and things like that from wearables so it's a process of matching this sort of data with then yeah going through those three pillars looking at what does your day look like from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to sleep we run through every part of your routine finding the other sources of stress that aren't to do with work because you can't control those and we don't want to control them those are the ones we want to keep and actually use to our advantage where there are three other buckets of stress that we look into and reduce those because it's all about the load on your body and then looking at your nutrition and how that is playing into your day that was a long answer sorry no but it's it's thorough and very appreciated and we talk a lot about data being the the new gold but great example of data and tech there actually within your your your zone of genius and how you're helping people to make better informed specific you know really tailored solutions to to people i think it's fantastic okay we touched on before burnout and again you're very open with sharing your own journey again thanks for that but burnout is a word we casually use to describe how bad basically things have gotten and ignoring the signs only makes the recovery harder so no doubt there'll be people listening to this when performance starts leading to burnout can you share signs you can tell high performers to probably watch out for so perhaps it doesn't get to that stage yeah of course and I think it is such an important part of this conversation any conversation around high performance well-being and there are the classic signs of being waking up feeling exhausted um feeling very stressed and you won't necessarily notice it when you're at work but maybe you get home and you realize that you're still doing everything at 100 miles an hour um digestive issues hormonal issues particularly for females that can play a big part but there are sneakier signs that I really love to draw out and it's things like can you go for a walk without listening to music or a podcast do you always have stimulation or something on in the background can you sit in silence or can you when was the last time you daydreamed because those are really powerful indicators of what setting your brain is on if you being able to sit in stillness sit in silence is a one of the best signs that we know we're in our parasympathetic nervous system when we are constantly needing noise a podcast and it I and I had this as well clients have it where it's like you're listening to a podcast when you're brushing your teeth when you're cooking as soon as you leave the house you're then sitting at your desk while listening to music and there's this constant feed of something and it's because your brain is searching for threats it's searching things in the background so it's like how efficient can I be and how much can I like how much information can I take in because it's just this hungry high alert setting do you listen to everything on double speed um things like can you um like how well are you sleeping that's also another one and how are you reacting to the little things in your day.

33:28So the example that I will always use is at the like height of my stressed period, I couldn't open a parcel. And I remember throwing it across the room and bursting into tears and being like, I just can't get into this parcel, which made me realize it wasn't about the parcel. Like there's, I was never going to cry over my emails, but it's those little things that tip you over the edge. So if you have moments, if a Uber being canceled, a train being late, they're annoying if you can't laugh them off that's a sign that it's like okay I need to bring in some tools to actually bring some awareness to how my body is feeling I something I get my clients do is take their emotional temperature not just first thing in the morning we can all do it in the morning we can all do it just before we go to bed but can you do it when you're at your desk actually where am I on that scale of stress like too hot feeling like I'm angsty I'm like almost when we're stressed we there's a lot of tension in the body because ultimately the body wants to run it wants to move from that tiger and so if you can feel that and you're like gosh my thoughts are going 100 miles an hour catch it in the moment because that's when you can bring something in to regulate there and then and not be waiting for that bath moment at the end of the day that we spoke about and so it's the little signs that actually are the more powerful ones because they come in a lot earlier than the oh I'm I have insomnia or I can't digest any food puffiness bloating they're also signs as well from a more gut health digestive perspective but these little things then start to as you said the one percent compounds the negative can as well so once we can spot these early podcasts double speed I think is the most common one that I see people like I fall asleep I had someone say they fall asleep to watching crime documentaries and I was like, that's a real not being able to switch off level.

35:18So it's those little ones that come in. Today's episode is brought to you by Clio. Are you frustrated with your current legal management software? You're not alone. And thousands of solicitors across the UK feel your pain. However, the hassle of moving all their existing client and case data holds most back from switching, prolonging the frustration. Clio is here to help. Their dedicated migration team will be with you every step of the way while you transfer your information. And if you have any questions, you'll get award-winning support available 24-5 by live chat, phone, and email. So help is always there when you need it most.

35:54It's no wonder Clio is consistently receiving five-star ratings with ease of use and top-notch service. If you're ready to leave frustration behind, visit clio.com forward slash UK to learn more and see why Clio continues to be the go-to choice for solicitors across the UK. Now back to the show. When you give the example of a parcel, there's certain little things that, you know, you can give me a client easy work, but something at home or something's happened. Maybe someone's cancelled something that's quite, might be quite small in relative terms that could potentially unregulate me. OK, because I'm used to quite systems, things being on time.

36:27So I've had to work on certain things as well. So, yeah, a lot of what you're sharing is resonating with me. So I'm sure it's going to be resonating with people listening and watching around the world as well. Okay, so with that, then give us like a typical well being check in and you would do with a client. Give us an example if we were to be working with you. Yeah, what we do as a sort of general check in on well being. For like in the moment or like how a session runs, how a session runs. So someone signed up with you and you're going to do a sort of well being check in. What does that look like?

36:56so we really run through as said earlier like exactly what your day looks like from start to finish because very often what I'll hear is I don't have enough time or I'm so busy it's the answer that we all give to the question how are you I don't have enough time I'm so busy or I like I also want to know how what people's relationship with work is like a big part of this work is actually understanding like for me stress was a badge of honor I loved being stressed I thought that's how I performed at my best was being stressed. And that was through school all the way into law. And so really understanding their thoughts around work, but then also the relationship with the food side of things.

37:37Like, do you enjoy cooking? Is food something that's just very functional or reactive? How do you react to certain stress patterns? So we really delve deep into you and what is happening. And then from there, we build that picture of like, okay, I always say there's a plan A and a plan B. We create plan A, which is the ideal situation that we'd love to happen every single day. But we also create your plan B on the days where actually nothing is going right. Maybe something has come in last minute. And it's where we take, say the plan A is I'd love for you to get outside in the morning for 10 minutes before you, if you're working from home, before you log into your laptop, or before you go into the office.

38:17plan b might be i want you to sit by a window when you turn your laptop on because i know you can't get outside like there are always ways or i want you to take two minutes to do some body weight squats every two hours to bring movement back into your day because that's going to give your brain a boost of energy cognitive function is a big thing of like we again you don't notice that maybe your decisions are a bit slower it's hard like you feel like you're using more effort to get to the place that you want to your brain is just functioning a bit more slowly and ultimately we put that down to old age we put it down to being tired we put that down to like oh yeah it's like this just happens of course it's normal but none of this is normal we've normalized so much of these symptoms or so many of these symptoms and so it's also bringing that awareness around it's the number of times the client will say I was tired but don't worry it's okay or yeah I didn't feel great at 4 p.m it's fine I pushed through and those little caveats that people give at the end of sentences is what we delve into because then we get to create this like very clear personalized structure of like okay taking those pillars I don't have a set structure of how we run through them it's very dependent on the person in front of me but then what are the small things that you can bring in and we can layer in to create that structure that I said before of like that's where sustainable success comes from with those structures but understanding your day is the most important part because otherwise all you're doing is taking someone else's routine and trying to micromanage it into yours which is going to be so different for everyone and what you enjoy that vitality piece very important devil is in the detail isn't it ultimately you're really laser focused like you say on what that day looks like and dissecting that bit by bit by bit so you can be exceptionally you know valuable and and helpful to them i love Love that.

40:07Okay. And clearly your work is getting recognized because now I want to talk about the work that you've done with some big brands because you've worked with Christian Dior and obviously a number of the big, large international law firms. You previously hosted the Art of Confidence Workshop, collaborating with Dior and Leighton and Watkins, again, one of the world's largest and most successful US law firms to share your unique teachings on confidence. So how can individuals trust themselves knowing how to work with their body and leading themselves from a place of feeling calm clear and safe this comes back to knowing your knowing what works for you when you know how good a food makes you feel when you know the meals that actually really fuel you for the whole day and don't leave you with brain fog at 4 p.m or wanting to have a nap under your desk that's when you feel confident I and the collaboration with Dior comes about because I wore a Dior jacket to my mum's funeral and it's the thing that got me into the church that day because I needed, it was my armor.

41:04I needed something to get me in there. And even when I started a Wayne case, I remember going shopping for a pair of heels that I wore to my big meetings. And they were, so I was like external power dress, like that's what will get me in and that's what will give me confidence. If I then think about my career in law, I was terrified to ever speak up in a meeting. My feedback was always, Grace, I think you need to speak for when we're all together. And I was like, nope, don't want to do that. Don't want to say anything. And so even though I had the external confidence, internally, I had none of it.

41:32and confidence is an internal it comes from safety and your physio uh physiological needs there's maslow's hierarchy of needs and ultimately confidence is in the middle around like self fulfillment level and if we don't have that physiological sort of foundations you cannot access those feelings of confidence you can fake them but you can't naturally feel them but again that comes to knowing your body when you know the things that work for you when you have that structure you know you then feel confident because a you know you have your backup you know that actually everything you're doing is in support of what you're trying to create so you don't that self-doubt can't come in those fears can't come in because ultimately you've got a really stable foundation um so safety knowing what works for you and then the third pillar I always say is bringing the joy in because when you are happy when you are loving what you're doing and it might be that you love what you're doing outside of work but that will trickle into work because the energy that you carry then completely shifts when you just feel good doing something in the same way that putting a jacket on makes me feel great that's why a power outfit works because it makes you feel good but can we do that internally as well as externally yeah it's such a good point isn't it because like you say the external bit's probably the easier bit to do and the internal bit we sort of you know we kind of don't neglect and I think actually it should probably be the other way around because that will then influence more than your external outlook as well.