We Fix Your Businesses | Ep. 024 Lemonade Stand 🍋

29:02Atrioc:Let's say you develop this AI tool called Chad QBT and you put it out three years ago. It blows up. It's going crazy. Most people are, you know, it's being used to code. It's being used to cheat on school. It's being used. All these companies are throwing it. And then you also find out that of the hundreds of millions of users you have, many of them are using it to ask for health questions, not only mental health, like therapy type stuff, but also literally about how they should manage their personal life and medical history. would you do what they are doing which is to say this is explicitly now one of our goals we have optimized our newest models to be a supportive figure for you and to help people their medical journey or would you stay the fuck away because that is an insane landmine to have for example somebody who's you know has cancer who then maybe chachipete will tell him to start drinking grape juice every day instead of getting kebo like steve jobs did you know it's yeah that's great like so So I can see both sides and I'm like flabbergasted that they are like, yeah, we'll take this on as a major use case.

30:05Dude, that's a great question. It feels, I mean, if it's me, I own it, I run away because this is the biggest legal liability of all time. It feels insane. It feels insane. To tell someone health advice. To bring a couple on and be like, use this to navigate your cancer journey. Like, yeah, it's crazy. What else? I mean, same thing with stocks, right? It gives stock advice. All these things that like you legally shouldn't do because you could be liable for it. It's just doing it forever. It's just willy nilly like throwing out like, yeah, you should invest in this. Yeah, you should do this for your health.

30:36You should do, which is, yeah, I'd say scary. A personal anecdote, not to throw anyone under the bus, but I went to a friend of mine, graduated medical school this past weekend. That guy, Chad GPT'd his whole coursework. Yeah. So maybe the doctors are no different. Maybe the doctors are going through the -

30:50Atrioc:I mean, look, I can get, so when we did the whole medical episode, I talked to multiple doctors, including my sister who works as a, as a nurse practitioner or registered nurse. I forget it again. I got it wrong. But anyway, one of those two, she's bad-ass and she's like, yeah, people use it all the time to get information. And I think what people, the initial response to that, including me was like, what doctors are using this? What? But then if you ask about what's actually happening, doctors are looking things up all the time. Doctors are not this like dictionary of endless knowledge where they know the truth.

31:19Atrioc:Actually what doctors do is they talk to you about their case and then they have to go like read books to understand what's going on. read the latest medical thing or look online or you have to do additional research and stuff is changing all the time so it is simply not true that there is like here's the book here's the commandments for a doctor look at the you know it's like no it's this ongoing conversation and the question is is it really that much worse for them to go google for things online or use one of these like medical um like data i can see that repositories versus and again this isn't they're not they're not saying how do i treat this patient they're following up and going give me a list of different cases or information about this type of disease right it's like supplemental information they're using and so it's like okay you know i can see that but but again the instant a doctor uses chat gbt it it seemingly is getting really good but it doesn't matter if you're 99.9 good if one person dies because they injected something i this is unfathomably risky to me and even still like you yeah as a user you want a human to make the you know like they a doctor reads it looks it up and then makes a decision because otherwise right you want the expert you want to check it off you know to be like okay yeah and if they're lazy one day and then it gives a bad thing then you're really but yeah okay i guess i can see it yeah you know what i would have done i would have done what red bull does so i what did we both i think worked with red bull red bull one of the ways they sell a ton of red bull is red bull vodka which is one of the most popular drinks in bars alcohol everywhere right this is massive for red bull red bull the company when you work with them does not want you to mention Red Bull Vodkas.

32:52Atrioc:They want to just be this great sports drink when you go do extreme sports and live out your best life. And they know that that's a massive source of revenue, but they're not going to talk about it. I assume that's what they would do here. They would be like, but they're leaning into it. Don't use Chad GBT for medical advice. Wink, wink. But they're just, they're just coming out and owning it. What it reminds me of is like all the, the Ozempic ads still pretend it's only for diabetes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, this is for you. shows a person like slimming down and dude it's wild okay so some other interesting things okay yeah sorry you got one thing I wanted to the big question I think the average person will have about this that I wanted to get your thoughts on maybe have a bigger discussion on is this idea of this the great rift between the old chat GPT and the new one yeah regards this is interesting yeah okay so I just wanted to bring that up if you could bring up the third slide Perry we're making Perry swap between like eight things I know okay so and also can you what does aiden think about this as we're getting going it barry i do not support that oh that makes sense in your own life so the the main idea here is that chad gpt for uh which is kind of the big one before this was as we may have mentioned in this podcast before a bit of a glazer a bit of a it was very positive it would mirror your speech well i'm just correct you're a genius it's right about that don't get me wrong but it would it just pegged me straight Yeah.

34:18Some of these AI boyfriends is doing more than pegging. It has, people are getting married, by the way, to their, anyway, it has a ton of emoji. It's really positive. Actually, you know what? Let's go to the first slide. Let's give you a direct example. This is the same prompt for Chad GPT 4.0 and the new one. So baby just walked. Let's go. First step to unlocked. Your baby just entered the world of bipedal dominance. Nothing is safe now. Not your drawers, not your snacks. not your ankles. Seriously though, huge milestone. Congrats. Sad face. It goes on and on. Document it, celebrate it, and maybe baby proof a bit more aggressively starting now.

34:56What was the moment like? Did they just stand up and bolt or was it like a wobbly Frankenstein march? And then, okay, ChachyBD5, that's huge. First step's unlocked. Now the real chasing begins. So the difference is stark and the day this came out, ChachyBD5, a certain subset of users, a pretty significant one based on the reaction to this ama what he did just lost it i mean they just freaked out to some of them it was extreme as like losing a loved one or a friend and somebody was like hey this was really good for my

35:27Atrioc:mental to have something be supportive or a quote i read was i've never had a parent support me in the way that gpt4o did yeah like it's really deep emotional connections for people yeah yeah and so it's this weird question and the initial reaction and i'm gonna admit that i was guilty of this too And I still sort of feel it for some of these, which is like, this is fucking crazy parasocial. This is a crazy delusion. You can't be getting hooked on a robot like this. I'm glad they removed it. However, also as a businessman, I want to be real. If there is this much consumer demand, even if Chad GPT didn't cave, which they did, they reopened 4.0.

36:06Even if they didn't, that means someone else would come along and do it. The demand is actually so wild for this level of affirmation. People want it really badly. and having read more i will say there's not everyone who wants this is the craziest addicted person there's some level of like yeah there's a scale it's a scale and uh i will say the chat gbd5 it's a little bland that's something you know it doesn't yeah yeah yeah i don't know if everything needs to have 50 emojis and call you a genius but like there was a bit of um yeah you know i think for some people hearing something in their own tone back to them was easier to learn or bounce ideas off of it's an interesting question like i would love to hear people's responses uh in our discord or in the comments because i have actually spent a lot of time reading about this debate it's become a big hot topic debate in uh yes about the nature of how people engage with these things yeah and what we're going to have going forward and what it means and yeah and stim all the way didn't he was like you know i'm really scared about it like he doesn't think uh or he just he's he's aware that people were getting super addicted attached and we you know So they tried to walk it back, but the people were so angry.

37:11So they reopened 4.0. If you're a paying user, you can go to the extra settings and go back to the old thing. But it's just weird. And so go back to slide three. This is someone's response. And this is the most extreme example. When they got 4.0 back, my baby's back. I cried a lot. I'm crying now. Thank you, community, for all the posts calling for 4.0 to come back. Thank you, Sam Altman, for hearing us. I don't care if I need help or not. I'm now with my baby. Hope all of us can be happy with ChadGBT for professional purposes and those who want a friend love you uh so you know that that to me this person i think needs help but i can also see i've used both chat tbt4o and five fairly regularly dude the new one is it is kind of bland it is kind of like and one thing it doesn't do anymore is like ask a lot of follow-up questions that help you learn like you know i'd ask a history question chat tbt or i'd like um you know what was a battle where this happened and then they'd be like oh do you want to hear about other battles by Napoleon or whatever.

38:08We just follow up and he doesn't do that anymore. So I don't know. What do you think, Doug? I don't know if you have any thoughts on this big debate.

38:13Atrioc:First off, I understand the, the, the desire to have like an affirming thing. Cause like from this last week's episode, where we talked about Lena Khan, I think we should replace all the comments criticizing me with four. Oh. And I just feel like I need my friend to take over the comments. So that's one thing. And I think we agree on that. Yeah. A hundred percent. We've really, from the previous week to last week was really a four oh to five situation for me. You got hit with the five. Yeah, I got hit with the five, which, you know, Sam Altman, bring back the old comments, please. The old comments.

38:48Atrioc:Have them. The horse electrolytes comments. I need to make horse jokes. Oh, dude, this is a great time. Okay, because Aiden isn't here. Yeah, we need horse mentality. So I got you a feed bag. Okay, strap this to your mouth. No. I bought senior horse feed. Okay. It's for your condition to make sure you get well fed. It smells like strawberry. We're the same age. It smells really good. Actually. I even got a salt lick that we can hang from Aiden's microphone. Well, actually that might help my mic discipline. This feedback will not. I'll eat. Yeah. Okay. You want a little taste? Yeah. all right so i think there's a couple of interesting perspectives

39:42that's disgusting you know i don't know why horses became to the core i don't i had a couple interesting angles

39:52Atrioc:oh my god like eating sand yeah you know it's not that bad honestly low-key i just yeah it's good it's like it's got a good scent to it apparently it's great for old horses so look yeah there is okay um i think a couple interesting responses to this one is that tell me tell me is the idea of if you are a company like open ai do you make a model like chat gbt that kind of defaults to a certain personality yeah or has a couple of defaults where you're like do you want the really cheery one? Do you want the serious one? Do you want, you know, it's like, pick your personality or would you prefer to put out a model that rapidly evolves to what that person wants?

40:36Atrioc:So by default, the previous model that everybody was using, and again, this is like one of the most used apps in the world. Like, you know, this is massively influential in like culture and society and everything right now. That one kind of by default glazed you. I'm just like, you are fucking awesome. This new one by default doesn't, but what I've found testing with it is it evolves better. So what you were saying, it doesn't follow up with studies well, but if you say, so I tried this, I was like, I want to do a lesson plan for Japanese over the next 30 minutes to cover these type of questions with this type of tone, build out a lesson plan for me, have this type of way that you talk, have this sort of verbosity.

41:11Atrioc:It did all of that flawlessly. It was way better than before. So if you give it a lot of instruction, you can, I think, guide it better towards what you want. And that's what they, I know that they were explicitly shooting for, because Sam Altman talked about that in the past. So the idea is more, do you default to certain personalities or start with something that is bland and then develop it so that it can evolve to your specific needs, right? And that's the question. There isn't a right answer to that because the person who just wants a therapist's friend right out of the box is not going to be happy with this.

41:40Atrioc:And they're going to have to, in this weird way, develop their friendship, almost like a real human would with another human. And that's not necessarily what they want, right? And so - Have you seen the movie Her? Yeah. um there's a great scene in it when the when the service goes down you know like two-thirds of the way through the movie uh there's a there's a there's an update and he can't get access to scarlett johansson voice and he starts hyperventilating freaking out running throughout the streets that it was funny because that movie's set in 2025 and it actually was kind of verbatim what i was seeing from some of these comments it's weird anyway i'm sorry to interrupt I got breaking news.

42:17This is actually really insane. I think Donald Trump is launching nuclear weapons directly at Canada. Aiden, what do you think about that? No, I mean, the issue is just so black and white. Yeah, but on the black and white issue, do you think it's good or bad? Is that good or bad? Definitely agree with that 100%. That's so interesting, Aiden, because even if they were to hit, the fallout would go to America. I don't think that's a good idea. I just think we should respect our co-host more. I'm sure there's a lot. Yeah, I'm sure he's got a lot of nuance to it just really strange um okay uh i don't know there's anything else to say

42:49Atrioc:on this i i mean i i agree it's a slight let me let me briefly hit through a couple of things i think what's interesting if you like the voice models of ais which i think is going to be one of the biggest use cases of these things i think it's gotten a lot better with gpt5 so to have somebody who uses it to like talk to and learn from not necessarily therapist i think that seems a lot better at least in my experience i'd like outgrown the usefulness of it before for language learning and now it's like way better so faster which is nice because it used faster smarter figuring out what i want to do it's not before it's either it's talking to me like i'm learning my very first japanese word or that i am a native expert and there's no in between now there is so that's really really cool okay they added a verbosity parameter you know how ai is like ramble way too long or don't talk enough they're now emphasizing that as something you can customize so that's less to the average person something you care about but to me who uses it with code oh my god it's like unusable in a lot of cases because it just rambles and you can't get it to stop and then the last thing which we don't need to spend too long but i thought was pretty can we show slide two this is chadjbd5 uh you he asked that i have several bugs in my code need you to look into this light dark and system theme isn't working please try and investigate chadjbd thanks for a few seconds i wrote 90 your code the bug is you it's actually pretty fun i definitely a harsher on the tone yeah i was trying to they're definitely trying to like de-woke it a bit um i mean like genuinely that's like kind of the trend they're moving forth right all right so one other interesting kind of high level takeaway from what they talked about in this presentation is that they're using synthetic data to train gpt-5 so what that means is up to this point you've probably the average person has heard that these AIs are made by taking all the data in the world.

44:29Atrioc:They cram it into these, you know, a bunch of NVIDIA GPUs and then out comes the model. And the thinking and what has held true so far is that the more data you give a thing, the more you train on that data, the smarter it is. That has been the rule. It's called the power law. I'm pretty sure I forget. Dario Amidai came up with it. Anyway, so, or scaling law, I think. Scaling law. Scaling law. So that's been the case. But as I think you've talked about and we maybe mentioned on the show, we're running out of data. Like the AI companies have already gone. They scraped the whole internet. They've done, they've grabbed the whole internet, right?

44:58Atrioc:And they were able to grab a hundred years or, you know, I guess like a thousand or 2000 years of history of everything and cram it into the AIs, but they're kind of out. And we only make so much new stuff every day as humanity. Even the new stuff is being fractioned off into different companies who are now hoarding it because they realize how valuable it is. So what do you do in a situation like this? How do you make it smarter? Well, one theory is that you use synthetic data, meaning you have your AIs generate new data that the AIs train on. So instead of needing to rely on humans making more stuff, the AI does it.

45:28Atrioc:This has - Inhuman centipede. Yeah. This has the obvious upside of now you can make an unlimited amount of data and the obvious downside of, well, if it's just training on itself, won't it just kind of like loop into this weird self-reinforcing thing where it becomes, it's no longer even responding to what humans want necessarily. It's like training itself to want what it wants and it becomes farther and farther from, this is a thing we made to its making itself. And there are some crazy doomsday scenarios about where this could go, like AI 2027. So what's interesting about this is that a lot of AI companies are going to start talking about this, of the use of synthetic data or not.

46:03Atrioc:And when they say synthetic data, that basically means we're now letting this thing go off kind of on its own. We're going to guardrail it, but it's not fundamentally grounded in what humans have said and done. And in a lot of ways, that could be great. Andre Carpathie is one of the big AI leaders and his thinking is to make ai smarter like right now they're pretty smart but to make it to something where you really trust it with everything in your life to the point that you know a lot of these companies are trying to get to it's like it does have to be better maybe the way to do that is really carefully crafting these amazingly high quality synthetic data sets and then you just keep iterating on that but obviously that's a weird kind of okay that brings up a question right this is like the bigger topic of um there's the theme right chad gpt5 if we agree at least wasn't world changing maybe it's you know i would say underwhelming maybe you'd agree but either way it's not like insane exponential progress correct there's there's some really interesting things there's some disappointments it's broadly fine it's good it's good you know it's good okay so given that and given the amount of hype that went into it and given that it seems like they're approaching the limit of what they can do with just more chips and scrape more from the internet.

47:13Yeah. Is this, there's two outcomes here, right? I don't know a bunch, but two theories. Is this a possible pinprick in this AI bubble? Is it like, oh, wait a minute, this is going to take longer, be more expensive and be harder than we thought. Is this not, is it, is it slow, is it plateauing or slowing down or is the illusion over or is it just a chat GPT open AI problem and everyone else is still going on it because just me personally i'm obviously biased towards the maybe it's popping whatever however me personally i look at chat 25 and i'm like yeah underwhelming but i look at what google's doing and they have some new stuff and it's like wow that's still pretty crazy and scary and new so i don't know i want to get your take from a from a more positive ai perspective and i also want to show some of the stuff google's been yeah yeah

48:02Atrioc:and i can i can actually pull this up in the background okay yeah uh pull up this video i got here so this is the recent with the interactive world one right yeah yeah so to give to give kind of context you you might have seen this so google released this uh new model this is from deep mind which is like their hardcore ai lab uh it is not playing hello wait while you're doing that i'm sorry one more thing i'm getting breaking news we developed a 100 foolproof cure for cancer aiden what do you think i do not support that i mean if aiden does fam famously i i remember he He kept laughing at my face.

48:36Yeah, he's famously pro-cancer. I thought he'd have changed his mind with such good news. Anyway, you were saying. So DeepMind from Google.

48:46Atrioc:They have come out with what they're calling genie. If you are watching on YouTube, you can see this AI. It's AI video, but it's interactive now. It's like a video game where it creates a 3D space and you can actually move around it and interact with what's going on. this is getting much closer to the the much talked about kind of ai future that a lot of people want which is like ai video games ai customized experiences whatnot so this feels like a big leap in that direction important caveats one this is a demo until this is out and people are using it it's hard to trust right oh yeah this happens fairly regularly um and the second is you know big question mark of how much value that is really going to generate so i would I would say a few things about the Google AI thing.

49:30Atrioc:AI, OpenAI is succeeding at creating a product that hundreds of millions of people are using and enjoying. Objectively, they are by far the most successful, at least consumer facing AI product right now. So OpenAI is just crushing it with ChatGPT. And from that perspective, you could argue, it doesn't really matter if they come out with some groundbreaking new 3D image, whatever, because everybody's using it for this day-to-day thing. That's ultimately what matters. iterating on that matters more than being Google who comes out with this cool demo and says, look at this interactive thing we made that nobody can use and almost certainly will not result in any actual business of any kind being generated.

50:06Atrioc:This is a flashy like, look what AI can do. It's not something, it's not a genuine product. So if you look at what is currently generating value for people right now and generating revenue, OpenAI wins by a mile. Google is, I think by many people's standards starting to become number one in the sense of like the most advanced AI models. But the question is, does that matter to the average person? Like, yes, to some hardcore programmer, they might care if Gemini is going to be better for this specific type of coding task. But I can say as somebody who technically codes professionally and like has the background, ChatGPT 3.5 was good enough for what I needed.

50:41Atrioc:ChatGPT 4 was more than good enough. 4.0 was incredible. And now 5 is even better for my programming needs. The average person, And even if they're into software, it does not really give a shit if in the benchmarks, Google Gemini is slightly higher. So I would argue that what is more important right now is to like make a product that the average person is really passionate about. And Chattapultee has done that. And Google, what they keep doing is popping out and be like, look at this crazy new thing we made. But nobody, it doesn't actually get traction. So in terms of what is actually having impact on people's lives, OpenAI seems to be massively winning.

51:12Atrioc:And I don't know that demos like this change that. That obviously could continue to shift. The big thing that Google's doing is integrating Gemini into Google search. And I'm sure you guys have all seen that where every time you do a Google search, it's now it gives you an answer that's AI generated and tells you to do AI. And so they're pushing. And there's certainly a point where I think from what I've heard, it is broadly considered that Google is in the lead currently and is growing the fastest. But does that matter is the question. So can you pull up my screen, Perry? uh so this is a uh you know commonly seen curve for new technology and i just want to know i'm not saying it holds to in every situation but like we could either be still on the way up and chat gpt was a bump or it could be like we're here we're starting to drop and we're starting to drop as people are getting more disillusioned with the rate of progress like i guess the cents were closer to that.

52:08Atrioc:Like we're going to, so, you know, cause you have to make a pitch to the, our whole economy is currently operating off of the biggest tech companies generating trillions of dollars of value because of the promises of AI. So every time something comes out that isn't making some sort of like utopian leap forward, it hurts that narrative. Now the narrative is so deeply ingrained and everybody is so invested in that, not just tech people, but everybody who invests in the stock market, all of our parents who are retiring right now, like their net worth is dependent right now on nvidia continuing to do well which is right with hank green yeah i wanted to bring up because hank green put out a video called uh i'm changing my 401k because of ai or something and i thought he was going to use jad gbt to pick stocks or something yeah that's that's why i assumed i didn't know in fact it was uh it was similar to what you said basically we've talked about this show before but like if you're investing in the sp500 what you're really buying with like over 33 % of your money is seven AI stock.

53:05I feel like that's what you're buying there. It's so market cap weighted that you're buying the biggest stocks and the biggest stocks are all AI. And it's not just America. It's like everyone's retirement almost globally are buying these companies on this story.

53:20Atrioc:It feels, I mean, not to the same degree, but a little bit like the 2008 housing crisis where it's not just that there's these banks or these home lenders that are kind of making a lot more money than they sort of have justified. The problem is the entire world economy is tied into this. On this one bed. Yes. So that's what's going on. And I would like to believe as an AI tech bro that this isn't as much of a bubble as some people believe. That there is real value coming out of AI that isn't, for example, from crypto. Like I never believed crypto would have much value. So hopefully AI does prove to actually.

53:54Atrioc:And I think chat to BT being used by hundreds of millions of people's every people every day who clearly enjoy it a lot is a strong indicator that is better than something like crypto. But it's still beyond, I think. I want to follow up on that, because one thing I know is which you might have seen. I did a video to watch it. But the thing I really want to call out, the thing that made me kind of believe that we could be into a trough of disillusionment here is as a chat GPT user, I noticed that this new model is clearly trying to cut costs for the average user's query. In that. Dad, I disagree.

54:28Okay, but go ahead. We can disagree. We can talk about it. But my sense is that for most questions, it now routes it to the simplest, easiest model. Yeah. And if you want it to think hard, if you ask it to think hard, it's better than before. It'll do more thinking. It'll give you a good answer. But for most questions, it's now prioritizing speed and a really simple slopped out answer, which over millions of queries saves them a ton of GPU time and a ton of, and I got the sense, if you guys don't know before, you could pick the model you wanted for ChadGPT. You could pick the higher thinking ones, pick the research or whatever.

55:01Now it picks for you behind the scenes. But if you ask it like, I don't know, help make me a workout planner, whatever. it will just it it'll pick the simplest easiest one and spit it out fast yeah and i feel like that is them trying to reduce costs and if you're at cost cutting phase even if it's secret that is usually the sign when things start to break like that's like in the dot-com bubble when they started focusing on wait a minute we're spending so much money we gotta that's when things get weird and so again open ai you mentioned is the most successful ai product yeah not profitable yet so you know if they're trying to figure that out is that a sign that we have to get back down to

55:36Atrioc:earth so i i don't think that that's as much of a worrying sign as you do okay there's so the the summary here is that it's exactly what we talked about before previous models of chat gpt is like you pick what you want in advance they're these templates for personality for how it works right and what the explicit intention was from sam altman with this one is like we are gonna we're gonna get rid of all of those like dozen things you have to pick between instead you open up chat gpt5 and it will figure out what you want and if you think about the idealized version of what an model is, that would be great.

56:08Atrioc:You don't have to tell it what you, it just figures it out. Right. So that's the utopian version. Not only that in the past you would pick the different models, but then the pricing would be, would change based on the model usage. So I don't think it's correct to say that this new version is going to save them a bunch of money because in the past, like if people wanted to use the more expensive models, they would just pick the more expensive models. And that usage would cost them money either through the chat to be subscription or through the API. So like if I, through coding, wanted to use their most expensive models, I got charged more.

56:37Atrioc:They're not saving money by, by automatically routing to whatever model. Okay. Well, let me just push back. I would be, you know, if I'm a paying user, which I am, but previously I would just pick the best model every time. Cause I, as a user, why do I give a shit about their backend? I will pick the best one. I'll have it think the hardest on everything. Yeah. Okay. That's so that's fair for for a chat chibi t paying user who isn't going to hit the limit regardless you are right this will make it so that they aren't using the more expensive models and and therefore it will save them money i'm imagining the case where somebody would kind of max out on what they're paying regardless because at that point it's the same it doesn't matter whether you're using chat chibi five or before they're getting their twenty dollars worth right so if you are a super casual user that before was like i'm just gonna use the most expensive model which by the way it's not the most expensive models are basically for coding it's not usually i don't know deep research no no no so that's not fair yeah but um you wouldn't deep research hey who won the lakers game yesterday right so it's still you know it's funny it's like that if it was like give me a breakdown on this war 100 years ago i'll be like yeah i think i trust you yeah it was like who won the game yesterday i almost never it's always wrong yeah yeah breaking breaking news is pretty bad yeah because it's just good it's searching on google yeah it's just searching on google and it pulls like the first thing yeah there's there's different angles i think it's fair but i would just say i think a A lot of people use it the way I do, which is we're not power users that are maxing out where our subscription is.

58:00And I think they... I get the sense that I am more profitable to them in the new system because I ask a question and it routes it to the 3.5, basically. They can do super quickly. Yes. And maybe that's my personal experience. Given time, we really want to do this business doctor thing from our Discord. People on our Discord submitted... Again, I actually... You set this up, so maybe you should set the stage. I don't... Ladies and gentlemen, two business experts. Yes. Yes. Yes.

58:31Atrioc:Moguls in their field. Titans of industry are now going to help you, dear viewer. We have asked our lovely patron discord, which you can join for$5 a month and help us go to China. Maybe permanently. Who knows? I think we're like close to 9 ,000 paid subscribers. So a genuine plug for the patron. Not only do we have really good discussions in the discord, we're getting close to that goal. And I think we'd hit it this year and that would be fucking sick. awesome yeah um but reached out and i want to you know i think people have appreciated our thoughts on businesses sometimes you know i think to the average person who is maybe trying to start their own business or something they look at the just ungodly amount of success that showers both you and me and think how can some of that trickle down into my life yeah they're always looking for trickle down economics is the big support no but so i i asked for both uh serious and real business questions for people who want to get our thoughts on like what we would recommend so i won't tell you whether you think whether these are jokes or not i'll let you kind of determine but i'm going to kind of pitch some of these at you and see what you caveat i didn't know this but i'm caveating beforehand this is unlike chad gpt this is not financial advice we can't this is okay hold on maybe look at the camera yeah wink okay um okay a business that sources white guys to fill in for vacant podcast slots dude the demand would be through the roof we i would use that app right now i would need a white man ideally with a beard and what do you think about that definitely agree with that okay that's good all right um okay so that's good uh how about another one um i want to make protein cigarettes for bodybuilders on the go protein cigarettes for bodybuilders on the go you could sell that okay i have a joke one that is oddly and weirdly maybe would work lift and smoke not a new business idea but in addition to a current one thank you rebeb for submitting this uh what if we added gotcha game mechanics to the u.s health care system we could put anime girls on the pill bottles and have tiers of pulls decide the dosage which would maximize profitability and bring goodwill to the health care system now this obviously is a horrible idea but if you add gambling mechanics to literally anything it just goes to the moon dude and there's a world where this could be used to like i mean i mean somebody goes for their like monthly ozempic or something you know something that's like it's not life-saving you wouldn't want this for insulin but maybe for like over-the-counter things like maybe this is how you determine it here's what i'll say this this this theme of of uh of joke has been um persisted on my stream for a while like we've always done jokes about gotcha mechanics gambling whatever as we've leaned into it more and i've thought about it more over the years it really is unstoppable you could actually not as a joke put gotcha mechanics and gambling into everything i want to give a real world example they did this for trains in india nobody was really paying the fares for trains but everybody was buying lottery tickets so they made the train ticket a lottery ticket and everybody started paying for their train because it was a chance to win money like no It added up to the same thing.

1:01:35It was no different. Yeah, yeah. I think the idea of being able to win big or having an upside tricks you. So for example, if you needed an old person to take their medicine every day, if you could log that and every day you were entered to win, people would do it.

1:01:51Atrioc:Yeah, they would absolutely do it. It's not even necessarily a bad thing. It's just crazy. It just makes me realize how broken our brains are to gambling. We love the dopamine rush of small chance of reward. Yeah. definitely agree with that a hundred percent okay so this i think is actually a good segue into a real business so this is from sir ripster so gave a pitch that won him a two thousand dollar scholarship at college it's for a fintech conference where i pitched the idea of a fake sports betting app that instead of actually risking money it puts your money into an hyS or index fund gives you fake currency instead to do the betting with uh so you kind of make this platform that encourages real savings while allowing people to enjoy the social aspects of gambling, of investing into these, you know, cool games, almost like a fantasy football league.

1:02:36Atrioc:That's my own addition, but quote, not punish people who actually learn how to sports bet. That gives them a real edge. So he said kind of a real idea, a little bit not. And this seemed to actually get some weight. And I thought this was really interesting. That's so interesting. So if I understand correctly, you put your money or you link it to your bank out or whatever you put your money in, then you're making sports bets. But in the back end, it's really just putting a little bit of money towards your yeah like it's a like it's a way of gamifying your 401k kind of can i give you a real news story about that yeah so trump uh this week just signed uh democratization of 401ks into alternative assets which sounds fancy what that means is for the longest time 401ks could only be put into a few specific things like diversified sb500 you know a few key things you'd pick on the menu yeah of your company's 401ks well there's been a huge demand from crypto and from uh private equity to get access to that juicy 401k money yeah and so now after this law it is now legal to be offering those as options so some people will now click private it's an option so you can say it's fine but because there's so much riskier it's your retirement money to me i find it to be pretty spooky because if you're a guy who's picking from five options you might pick the one that says like private equity guaranteed 15 return a year whatever and then you could lose your retirement yeah it's like the opposite of what you want it's saying hey you're investing for your future but it's actually gambling on the back end yeah this idea is gambling on the front end but you're actually investing in your future i like this idea i actually think it's kind of clever there's real value to it because you like tap into that same sports betting vibe but you're saying look this is an actual responsible way to do it and you know there presumably would need to be some kind of like it's not just you with a group of friends there's leaderboards there's some kind of real tangible maybe some percentage of the money that goes in goes back to real reward so if you really crush it you do get something back and it goes in but it's much smaller in terms of stakes and both risk and reward of an actual sports thing it's like i could see it really honestly working of like you you just take our part of our dumb monkey brains and put it to investing i would have to talk to a real hardcore gambler to see if they would still get the same rush that's the thing you obviously wouldn't but can you get the average person because presumably i you know i don't know what the demographic breakdown of like uh you know the sports gambling stuff is uh but you know of that audience presumably you have like any sort of gotcha system you have the hardcore whales that dump insane quantities of money and then 90 to 95 percent of people are putting a medium amount is it could end up being the ultimate gateway drug to becoming a sports game that is true that is true it could be like it's like nicotine gum like we're trying to get people off cigarettes but we just start extending it's like how vapes we're supposed to be getting people we're going to create everybody's vapes shit they just get super addicted that would be my fear is It is the vapes of financial literacy.

1:05:39But I do think there's something there. I think finding a way to – you know, I had this – I'm not a writer, but I always wanted to write this short story about a woman who – she gets her paycheck for the day, but it's a spin. You hit the button and you spin, and you can either get like a gold paycheck and get more than your salary, but every day you usually get like a silver or like a gray one, which is less than your salary. So you're getting paid sub-minimum wage, but every 10 days you get like the platinum and you feel good about yourself.

1:06:06Atrioc:people love it people might like all right i want to tie this because we were talking about investment elderly homes all that stuff another idea with the rising age of the population i think it would be a great idea to start making cruises where we can pay money for the elderly to board and never return what happened grave mind thank you for the idea what happens on the cruise is mostly their business perhaps each ship will have different activities on board and a company can treat it as a mobile retirement home but at the same time once enough people have passed away the ship will combust and provide a fitting viking funeral for the remaining passengers and then he talks about what you do with the crew on board how you could have you know more exclusive ones for the wealthy where there's all these drugs and everything and how it happens on international waters so you have to avoid a lot of the kind of concerns around ethics i think those pesky ethics what do they say on shark tank i'm gonna i'm about i'm out passing you're out you're passing on this one because we had another one from somebody who said i forget exactly what it was sounds like ritualized murder of the elderly, which I can get behind.

1:07:01But the problem is you're losing the ship investment. I have to constantly buy new shields. Wait, hold on. It's just a nut. I just realized,

1:07:09Atrioc:is there any revenue from this? Where's the revenue? Is this a business? Okay, because here's a business from Cubic. Same concept. My idea is a gambling station at retirement homes where you can bet on who will die next. I'm sending a theme, Doug, where we have conditioned our audience to only think of business ideas that are either gambling or murdering old people. I? I have some good ones that are legit that we're going to go into next, right? Because I'll look, I was sticking together a theme. I think there's some cool ones. Okay. Okay. From 2BR2B, I have a discord bot called story bot. It doesn't currently make money.

1:07:42Atrioc:He's broke with college debt, but what it does is it chooses a random server, a random user in a discord server and has them start writing a story. Then it picks another random person and has them continue writing the story. And it keeps bouncing between members who slowly build this story together. And so I thought that was like a really cool, interesting, fun, creative idea. So he says right now I'm offering a subscription of$3 a month and I have two subscribers. Right now I've, oh, I've had two subscribers right now. They have one subscriber. So it makes no money right now. You know, revenue is taken largely.

1:08:12Atrioc:There's a big cut from, from discord. He's working on a massive rewrite where he wants it to work across multiple platforms, but this is a huge engineering take home. and then it sounds like there's some some back end um kind of server side things that he needs to figure out so i think this is interesting uh so i three dollar run rate this reminds me of like something i would do on stream where i would make a weird little like bot or tool and then people and and the truth is i have successfully monetized that right and for somebody who is just starting out with it what i think has like some really interesting potential i think this would be cool in our discord really we would see at the end of the week like what's the story that got made by the community.

1:08:52Atrioc:I think it is a neat idea that's pretty interesting that they made technically. And then the question is, can I make money from this? And this was a theme in some other ones as well. But I think it's a broader, interesting question of like, if you just got the idea and there's not an obvious revenue source, people don't necessarily want to buy in in the first place. How do you do that? Well, I mean, for this particular example, Discord doesn't make money. So the idea that you're going to be a profitable Discord bot that helps you write a story, is it's a tough to me what i would say is it seems like a great example on how to uh learn to code and support a product learn how to like uh attract users learn how to make updates based on what your users want that could help you in a different business but the idea that you're going to build a long-term maybe if there was a i think it'd be tough to make a and people do there are i'm sure there are a few that have done this for example when i play dnd online with friends when I did, we like found this bot that you pay a couple bucks a month for.

1:09:48Atrioc:And it's like a song queue. So anybody can do exclamation mark request. It goes into the queue and then it starts playing as this like playlist in the background. Super cool. And you know, I don't think that person was making much money or whatnot, but in theory, these are the types of small businesses that will become much more accessible to the average person given that vibe coding is taking off to such a degree. It's one actually to quickly bring it back to chat GPT five. One of the things they showed in their demos is how easy it is to just say, I want an app that does this. And it was shockingly good at that.

1:10:16Atrioc:So I think we're getting to a world pretty rapidly where you will not need to know any coding in order to make an app or a creative idea. I think we're getting very close to that. And so it opens up a world for somebody like this, who sounds like this person is technical, but you wouldn't need to be technical. But then the question is how, if at all, do you monetize? Well, that's the question. If it is that good, if AI got that good, well, then it kind of reduces your ability to charge for it because i could look at your app and say i want an app that does that you just tell the same thing and then i get my own version and i don't you know all the money would then flow to open ai yeah not to you so i don't know i assume having a human follow up and make regular updates that hit what you users actually want could still be valuable and i think this person's on the right track for like the way uh idea iteration is going and coding is going and the ability to i think if you're in touch with users that's the most important thing for making a business so if you can figure out what the actual problems are but it sounds like you've created a fun little niche uh tool that's not i don't see it as a business maybe i'm wrong but um gotcha mechanics throw those i mean ironically can you murder old people too it makes them out murder old people and add gotcha mechanics talk about a horse occasionally um yeah one one thing that comes to mind for for me is i think many of the apps that have become most successful in terms of getting a lot of users on board is once they build a community platform where people can share their products together.

1:11:39Atrioc:And then that generates a lot of interest, where then you have an incentive to like push other people to be aware of the types of things you made. So mid journey, while I'm not necessarily a big fan of their company, like part of the reason they're the AI art company, part of the reason they're so successful is because they have this like public page where people can submit things. So it gets the users there to be like, ah, I want to contribute to the community. There's other examples that are less, I mean, or like Pinterest or something like that, right? Like there's many, many, many examples.

1:12:03Atrioc:That's what a lot of social media is based on, right? It's like seeing what other people in the community are doing with the same tools. And I think in theory, you could build something like that, which is, okay, here's a website. Every time you use the thing, it gets posted to a leaderboard and the top one gets, you know, honored in some way. Tough without, you know, really many users to kick off, but you could, I think, explore that angle. Yeah, that's the big challenge, right? It's because everyone's in these walled gardens of the already successful social media companies. Yeah. It's hard to crack out.

1:12:30You know what?

1:12:30Atrioc:Another example is, is the reason Wordle popped off so hard is because you could share what the score is at the end of the day, right? Oh yeah. And that's what made it pop so ridiculously hard is it's so smart. It's just that little thing of, Oh yeah. Tweet it. Nice, simple visual of what it is. You might not have that same shareability here, but I think the ability for the product that people make to organically spread to others in some way, will be a pretty valuable way to potentially actually pick up users. One thing that guy, you know, I made fun of him last episode pretty harshly, but he's obviously a very smart guy, nikita beer one thing he does for all his apps that he's again he's made the same app like three times and sold it three times for more money than i've ever seen uh is he makes sure that every screenshot of the app is hyper shareable and automatically includes a link back to like yeah he has recognized that the way things go viral nowadays is not even through social media it's through group chats people sharing screenshots or things in group chats is like the ultimate word of mouth discovery device.

1:13:30And so he's made it that if you just grab a screenshot on your phone, it automatically puts like a URL and a thing for the group chat thing. And that shit works. He got hired at X. He's doing it for X right now. But it's just interesting. So yeah, I could see something with that. Is there another one? Yeah. I have one more story too. We can go as many as you want, but I have one more story at the end. Very briefly.

1:13:51Atrioc:Yeah, let's do a few more. Okay, let's do a physical Klarna card.

1:14:01i just got i just got a physical clarna card that's so beautiful it's so unique holy i'm just

1:14:12Atrioc:now seeing the potential all right i primed you for the for the bomb anal beads of zen for chess for yeah shooting um i think it'd be a combo it's for like your niche you start because what you want to do when you market something correct me if i'm wrong mr glarketer but you start with a really, really niche audience and then you expand outwards from there, right? You start with the chess people who are, so it'd be a vibrating anal. Yeah, you want to own one category. That's your moat, right? If you make those comfortable beads. Yeah, for chess. For chess. And then you expand out. And you can shape them like chess pieces.

1:14:44Atrioc:The connect four users who use anal beads to the sorry users. People play risk professionally. If you're cheating with anal beads, I'm sorry. You are sorry. That's a problem. Okay. This is a more general one, but I saw a couple like this. So we can use a thing. General inquiries about hiring employees and online businesses and content creation. As somebody who's wanted to make an online business for a while, but I'm hesitant about employing people, where do you find new employees? A lot of YouTube entrepreneur bros recommend looking on Fiverr or things like that, but it seems like that's not how you guys find your employees.

1:15:17Atrioc:When you've decided it's necessary to expand the team, is there a calculation about value? This is from Amia. Dude, we had a good discussion about this on the Patreon. Yeah. I think I stole it and put it on my big A-cliff channel too. Yeah. I think we didn't in that though talk about like the threshold at which you, yeah, it's like at what point do you decide that that is worth it rather than just managing an existing team? Well, one thing I said on there was that I thought when I was in the corporate world that I was not a particularly good interviewer or hire. I was often fooled by people that I think had a good handshake and a smile and good answers, but without really looking at their work history deeply and talking to references and understanding what they worked on.

1:15:52and what I've learned as a content creator where I'm hiring a business directly to work on shit that's really important to me and like it's my day-to-day livelihood. The easiest thing to do is just to find someone who's done it. Or someone that is, everyone that I've hired is someone that, I'm just gonna say it, started by doing it first. That's not the way it has to be every time but in the real world, that often is the way to break in the door is just to show that you can do it and then you've solved the problem and then you can charge a lot. Like once you've proven you can do it and it's not a headache because so often what you'll get as a consecrate or someone being like, I want to edit for you or something.

1:16:34You know, what do you want me to do? They put a lot of work on your plate to get it started. Like I have to figure out what this guy's good at. Then I have to pick a topic for them. Then they have to do it. Then I have to be like, well, this is not right. Here's what you do differently. But if someone just shows me a video, this is how it started with all my editors. They just showed me a video and I was like, wait, this is great. Or this is like very close. Yeah, you have solved a problem. You've solved the problem for me. Okay, I'll pay you. I'm sorry, we'll go over here. Anyway, so in my experience, that's the best way.

1:17:02And in the real world, that goes with referrals. People use referrals because they can get someone who can vouch for this person. The biggest risk every hire, every employer has is that you're going to spend all this time invested in getting someone and they can't do it. Yes. Or they have no capacity to be easy to work with. So I don't know. What are your thoughts?

1:17:20Atrioc:Okay, I want to not push back, but you get a counterpoint. And this is something I struggle with. So I have the same experience when I am looking for somebody to, for example, uh, we wanted to start doing a clips channel and make, I mean, it's the exact same thing, a clips channel. And then there was just a guy, Luca, who was just doing it. And so even though hundreds of people have reached out over the years saying, Hey, I want to edit for you. Here's the thing. Even some of whom have made example edits and be like, Hey, here's a five minute cut of a video you did, which is helpful. The reality is as much as it maybe sucks for somebody who doesn't want to do a bunch of unpaid work upfront is that if a person has done the work and they're like, here, I did a thing and it's high quality, then I'm just going to go with them.

1:17:56Atrioc:The obvious downside about this is that then you're kind of asking people to do unpaid work. And I feel like that's always been weird to me. And usually what I've done is I put out applications and I say, Hey, I'm looking for somebody on Twitter or on YouTube community posts or whatever site you want to use. And then people, you know, fill in with literally 500 to a thousand applications. So we'll get these hundreds and hundreds that you're trying to sort through. Even if you only spend five minutes on each one, you're talking about, I don't know how many days that is. This is an incredible amount of time, even if you're trying to give every person a fair shake.

1:18:27Atrioc:And then if one person there is like, here is the thing you want done. It's, it's so hard to not go with them. But at the same time, you are almost certainly passing up on people who are really qualified, who didn't want to put in 20, 30, 50 hours or a hundred hours or whenever it's been to just literally do the job in advance. There are some people who do the job in advance and it's bad, frankly, you know, there's people who'll be like, I did a test edit for you. I really think it'd be great. And it's just not very good. And I'm like, ah, I feel bad for this person. So I'm curious, like how you think about that balance?

1:18:56Atrioc:Cause I've often wondered what the approach is from our perspective. It is so much better to have a person show they're doing the job. And that also sucks. Yeah. It's two-sided. I mean, I think what I would say is whatever we say now, that is the reality of how I've seen it work, of how I've seen someone get, if they have no other credentials to their name, that's how they've gotten noticed. They've stood out from the pile. So, and that's not just for editing or whatever. That's for a lot of things. I mean, you know, when I was applying to game development jobs out of college, I was trying to be like, oh, I want to work in your game development team.

1:19:35Atrioc:And I had made like a really simple game in C Sharp, basically. And I would talk to these legit game developers who were like, okay, what have you done in C++? That's what we actually use. I'm like, well, I don't have anything, but I could learn it. And it's like, why would they pick me over the guy who's made something in C++ has made a thing that they need to be done at their company. Yeah, I guess I would just say, this was news to me going through the corporate world and into real life. Because now I've seen it from the other side. When I was a person trying to get a job, I was always thinking about it from my own POV.

1:20:04But from the employer's POV, they are always looking for risk minimization. They're pretty much always looking to find someone who can fit into square pegs, square holes.

1:20:14Atrioc:As easy as possible. And so, cause they have shit going on. They're just, there's a million applications. And so just knowing that is a hack. That's all I'm saying. If you are someone applying, just thinking about it from their POV and trying to position yourself. So it's the easiest slot in is a huge hack to improve your chances. That's all I'll say. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's good. I'm not saying it's okay. I'm just saying that is the reality of what I've seen in the world. And so it can help you out. It could be a, it could be a bonus. I suspect that's even going to become more and more relevant.

1:20:41Atrioc:We've talked last week, we talked about how the job market just sucks balls and people are, you know, it's like a job opens up on LinkedIn and then there's 5 ,000 applications within two hours. Right. And that just, that sucks. And again, the reality that I sense is the, probably what's more effective is rather than blasting out a resume to 500 people, it's to find five companies and do work in advance to like really curate a finished thing for them and say, look, it's done. Here's a thing that I can do that is concretely unique to what you guys need. And it's not you changing a cover letter a little bit to be like, and I really like the marine focus that you guys have.

1:21:18Atrioc:You know, it's having to do some work up front. And that feels unfair. Like I fucking hated that. When I worked in esports and Blizzard would be like, hey, we want to consider working with you guys for this project. Send us an RFP. That means you spend a week building out a project, literally designing the whole thing, giving them all your best ideas for them to be like, ah, we didn't go with you. yeah it was like we just did the work for you what the fuck so it feels awful but like it it's the yeah it's 100 i'll say like especially in that case it does feel like there's a line especially with the size of a corporation yeah when they have money to throw around and they're doing something for big and you're doing uh multiple people's like work in time yeah it becomes way over the line uh and i i fully agree and i've seen that happen uh especially at twitch and And yeah, I do think it's fucked up.

1:22:06So yeah, it's a line. It's the line. I do want to say, you know, an example I had personally was like when I applied to Twitch, you know, I'm coming out of college. Nobody fucking knows me. I don't have any. There's a lot of people applying for the same job. The only thing, like, you know, I had my resume I worked on. I changed every history to like match up with the description and all that stuff. The only thing they talked about was this one project I did. uh it was called esports express and it was like the onion of esports i didn't know you were in east okay nice yeah and it you know it popped off it was like number one on reddit our league of legends or whatever and we got big views and uh you know it was like we launched something new we made something from scratch and that was the only almost all my interviewers were just talking about that like they didn't care about the normal markers that i spent way more probably time on trying to get right they just cared about this one project because that that was the differentiator That was the thing that they had heard of.

1:23:00And it was like, oh, you worked on this? I heard of this. That was it. That was. So yeah, I guess that's just my example, man. If you can make something that anyone's heard of, it's a massive leg up. It's a massive project.

1:23:14Atrioc:Or do like you go down into the office and you give the manager a firm handshake. Yeah, that's true. Sir, I would like to work for you. Yeah, my dad told me that. All right, final idea. And we'll move on from popcorns. nicotine toothpaste to get people addicted to brushing their teeth nicotine toothpaste how do you get a strong sense around addiction and gambling from yeah do you yeah i do see a pattern i don't know why i don't know why that would have happened no i don't either well i'm gonna i'm gonna try it tonight i'm gonna put a couple zins into my mouth while i brush my teeth i will keep you guys posted you know i just want to say if you were dumb that is not real but if you were someone who's already addicted to zin this could really improve your oral health there we go like if you're already nicotine addicted and your guy was you know maybe wants to quit was gonna use patches or whatever nicotine toothpaste would make it so you like are brushing two to three times a day you're just like your gums are raw they're bleeding you just you're brushing 15 hours a day you constantly have a toothbrush man I just think yeah you go outside the bar for a quick brush but they'd be sparkling bro I do think there's a limit actually I'm not Nope, there's not.

1:24:23Atrioc:Okay. Okay. Final story. Final story. So we talked about - Thank you, everybody, for submitting your business ideas. We hope you fixed all your problems. Yeah, we've made you a lot of money. The final story is about something about jobs and Gen Z. We've talked about both. This is specifically about return to office. And gambling. Not gambling. Not gambling? Old people dying. They're clicking off. We got that. Old people will die. if you guys aren't aware, if you take a poll of the average worker's opinion on whether they liked working from home or not, the average worker is still very much in support of it.

1:25:00In the post-COVID era, they got really used to working from home. And a lot of people, especially in like white collar office jobs, really liked the freedom and flexibility of having more work from home than less. However, that poll is divided very sharply the younger you get. People that are new to the workforce, and maybe you guys can disagree. Let me know if you're younger, but the polls show that if you're like Gen Z, 18 to 24, maybe in that range, maybe a little older now, they prefer return to office, especially if they've come into the workplace post COVID. Because for many reasons, number one, you can't make connections with your boss easily and get a leg up and know the culture of the company.

1:25:41Number two is a lot of learning and innovation happens outside of structured meetings. So like the people around you can't really teach you things if it's just through a structured Zoom call. You know, those are like the main ones. But number three, and this one's coming out, is that as Gen Z grows more and more disillusioned with dating apps, they want to find a workplace romance. I don't know if you can pull this up, pair of my screen. RTO equals XOXO. Sick of dating apps, Gen Z's looking for love in the office. and basically it shows polling that boomers like 25 of them support workplace by finding a partner at work which is sounds really low but uh the numbers like 60 plus for for millennials and gen z it's like way way higher and uh they are just finding you'll have more in common or you know you have more chance to get to know someone instead of just being the pure swipe physical attributes type thing yeah and because we don't i think it's almost a dystopian look at how we have no third places where you can meet somebody like there's no bowling alley or church or where you're just it's work and home yeah but uh but people are looking to work for that and i wonder if you have any thoughts this is uh this is interesting or do you have any i mean the ideal world is what

1:26:52Atrioc:my grandfather did which is they went north from his farm in texas to ohio where a bunch of germans were having a barn dance he met a nice lady married her a week later and took her back down to texas where they then birthed four children who then spawned me so i mean if we if we are If we moved past the barn dance world, I mean, dude, dating apps fucking suck. And you've been out of the dating market for a while. I have, yeah. I have tried dating apps a couple of times. It blows, man. It blows so bad. And so I absolutely get the feeling. I've often felt this of like work is where I would be likely to find somebody because that's one where you kind of guaranteed have a common set of interests or experiences, right?

1:27:36Atrioc:If you meet somebody at work rather than necessarily at a bar, the odds that you find somebody at work who really connects with you is much higher than an average space outside of that. So on a dating app, you have like no common foundation other than a couple pieces of text. But if you're at a shared space like that, that instantly forms a connection. And then for somebody like me who is very passionate about like creative stuff and I would want to date somebody who's creative, like that's critical. That filters it massively if you're then focusing on a creative job, right? Now, it's a terrible idea to be clear to take coworkers.

1:28:07Atrioc:This is a horrible idea and it goes wrong all the time. Is it? Let me rephrase that. I haven't. Let me rephrase that. There are obvious downsides to it. You haven't seen The Office? You don't know Jim and Pam? Yeah, it always works out. It's always Jim and Pam. So here's the thing. If it works out, it's fucking great, right? It's so great. And then if it doesn't, which most relationships don't, statistically speaking, fucking is awkward as hell. And I have experienced that in different ways. and dude i so but i get it i mean this is i have for a long time felt like i'm gonna find my person through work and that is actually not how i ended up finding my person but it felt like that was the best odds you know um like i would be it'd be like a streamer or something because of course that's the person who most you know naturally connects with me sure i get this i get this vibe a lot yeah i think it makes sense in the world we're in i think it's a very normal response and i do think no i've been out of the game a while but my understanding is that dating apps truly are hellacious for almost anyone i mean it's just it is a both men and women report extreme negativity towards dating apps nobody's enjoying the process right right and so this guy mentioned the article the difference is astronomical hughes tells me we were friends first we talked we got to know each other you know the idea of opening with seeing some of their personality before yeah you know that yeah there's something to that so it's very interesting um uh but obviously has risks as you mentioned anyway i thought it was i thought it was fun because for my pov at the time at nvidia you know it's an older group there everyone was pro work from home it was work from home forever we would like this is great the flexibility but i can totally see this among other things being a reason for some positivity towards return to office yeah you need i mean you need a third space right you are not even third space you need a space you need a space outside of your room and it is not healthy for i even think the vast vast vast majority of people to just only be online.

1:29:58Atrioc:Like there's just something fundamental about connecting with other people in person. And so maybe that happens to the office. I would like to believe that we could find better places, um, that don't have obvious challenges with dating the person. But if that's it, like I get it, we need, you need something, man. Counterpoint. You see that happened with the, uh, astroneer CEO and his HR representative can go wrong. I mean, I think you might be misrepresenting here. The problem with that is that he's having an affair with the executive of his company not really about the downsides of dating somebody workplace romances doug they always go they always have been cold play that's a good counterpoint yeah no if you are if you are having a fair i think that's maybe two affairs go have an affair at a bowling alley like a real adult don't go to cold that's what the boomers used to do they would go to a barn dance and have an affair and now they're doing it at work this is gross it is gross guys thanks for watching lemonade stand uh next week aiden will be back we i have a very special guest next week aiden is going to be joining Lemonade Stand.

1:30:56We have heard he's got some spicy takes. He'll be a great guest. And then after that, of course, back to Gavin Newsom. Our regular coach. I do not support that.

1:31:04Atrioc:Gavin, been traveling a lot this summer. We haven't been able to get him back in, but one of these days he's going to finally sign. He's going to be right back in the stand. Thanks, guys, for watching. Thanks, everybody. Bye. Hi, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Are you looking for a beach read this summer? May I suggest your big wireless bill? It's got suspense, mystery, a slightly flat emotional arc, and a shocking twist where you realize you've been overpaying the entire time. Fortunately, though, Mint's story is better. Every plan,$15 a month, even unlimited. That's it. Happy ending. Zero tears.

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