#372 – Simone Giertz: Queen of Sh*tty Robots, Innovative Engineering, and Design

27:17So there's so many failure modes. Like, this is boring. Or like, like you said, you're coming off as too much of an expert, you're not self -deprecating enough. Or like, there's just so many failure modes and it's terrifying for people. But I feel like this skill you should learn. Because most people, like at MIT at university and so on, are doing a lot of awesome stuff. Yeah. And they should show it off. But I feel like you figured out a really good process of showing it off. When you fail, when you succeed, all of it. Not taking yourself too seriously, but also revealing through the humor in the self -deprecation a kind of genius, a kind of intelligence and curiosity.

27:58Yeah, I just want to snapshot that quote and put it on my LinkedIn and the back. When is your autobiography coming up? I'll never. You don't want to say that because like a year from now. Oh, gosh. I don't want to shit on autobiographies. Yeah. No, no, no. Just by saying that, I'm shitting on autobiographies. I just, me being interested enough in somebody to want to read 600 pages about them talking about themselves. No, well, that's exactly the kind of person that should write one. But also, I'm fucking 32 years old. What do I have to write about? Like I went through puberty. I lost my virginity and here we are.

28:36Like, I don't know. It's like such a. Three chapters. It's a coloring book. Okay. Chapter seven. I learned to time on shoelaces. I feel like it would be awesome. Anyway, what's the Queen? How did you achieve the status of royalty, the Queen of city robots? What's the origin story there? I mean, I have officially renounced my title now. Can you still speak of the time when you like? I guess I'll speak of the time. You're Kingdom? Yes. No, I mean, it started on because I... Did you rule by love or fear? By fear of rejection. From me, the people who want to reject me. I started making these little gifts.

29:20Like, my early projects that I did were very gift forward. I was always like, I only did it because it could be translated into a gift. Give forward. I like it. But honestly, it was like, it's a really good mental exercise to vet if your project is easy enough to be explained by like a seven second looping video without audio. And because like nobody is going to care that it also has Bluetooth. Like, it's really like, is it self -explanatory enough to be explained through a gift? I think just pause on Saturday to interrupt, but I feel like all scientific papers and projects should go through that exercise.

30:04Can you explain this to the kids? Yeah, actually, a deep mind does a good job of this. Like, you know, we've saw a protein folding. Here's a gift. That's literally what they do. Because who is going to read the nature paper? So like, you have to, like, how do we communicate this visually in a sexy, clean way where people can intuitively understand even if you don't know what a protein is. Even if you don't know what protein folding is. Yeah. It's very like, yeah, if somebody comes out of context and that's been really interesting also like building this product business and trying to do the marketing around that.

30:39And I'm like, if somebody comes in and they have no idea about what this product is, will they get it explained to them in this ad? And I don't know. But it's definitely a worthwhile exercise to do. So I started making these projects. So I got translated into gifts. And I posted them on slash R slash shitty robots on Reddit. So that's how bread had existed. Yeah. And I loved it. I thought it was really fun. And I was like, I want to contribute with content here. Concord it. I don't, I mean, I don't know. I was voted. I think I was voted top user of 2015. So yeah, that's an old merit. Once you went and know about prize, you always have the know.

31:19Okay. So what was the first thing remember the early gifts that you created? So this is when I was at punch through design in San Francisco. I would kind of building a lot of hardware projects for them, but I also felt and they were so supportive of me. But I also, it's such a different way representing a brand versus representing yourself. So there were some projects that I just like ruled out because I was like, this feels too weird for this brand. And I started building them on the side. One of them was a toothbrush helmet. And yeah, so it's like a skateboard helmet with a robot arm on the forehead, kind of like a unicorn horn.

31:54And it precious your teeth for you. It was at the first YouTube video you uploaded. It was the first gift that I uploaded. So actually I wanted to, I wanted to do a kids show about electronics and Sweden because I was like, I love electronics. I think it's a fucking dope. I could do a kid show about it. So I filmed this terrible, terrible pilot episode in my bedroom in San Francisco. And that's when I built the toothbrush helmet and I emailed it to them. I mean, just cold email. Like I'd know in or anything. But I was like, hey, I want to do this. And they didn't get back to me. Nobody surprised.

32:35And I was like, well, I have this thing I built. I might as well post it on the internet. So that's what I made the little gif. And I posted it on such our slushy to robots. And I think it got like 50 ,000 views. And I was like, wow. And from there, I just kept on building things. And I think within six months, it was my full -time job. Can you go through the detailed design of this toothbrush helmet? There's a motor. It's like a server. Like what's the motor? What's the, is an Arduino involved? Yeah. So I built it off of this robot arm called the Mi Arm. So it's just this acrylic robot arm. And I think it has three server motors.

33:18And it's all controlled by an Arduino, all the electronics. The arm is already pre -built. It was a kit. So I assembled it. How do you make sure the length of the arm is the proper arm? I mean, the arm came down. So it's like, I mean, I just programmed it to come down to my mouth and then poorly brush my front teeth. Yeah. Yeah. It was just swung back and forth. I mean, trial and error. It's not like that. What was the challenges of that? Do you remember? Oh gosh. Or was that one not much of a struggle? No, it was definitely a struggle. Because also, how do you loop it when they get nice gift?

33:55I mean, it loops fine. Yeah, it looks pretty good. Is that that's not that hard? No. I mean, it doesn't have to be perfect. It's a gift. It's the internet. Things are shitty all the time. I think, I mean, I think the biggest struggle of that was that I had this intention for it to be this show. And then them not giving, yeah, giving back. And I was like, well, if they don't want it, then maybe YouTube will have me. They don't notice my genius yet. What was so bad about the pilot? Do you remember? It was like the worst, most embarrassing. So cringey. Yeah. I mean, it's thankfully not on the internet.

34:31So nobody can find it. But it's very much me being in what I called host mode, which is where I'm like, okay. So what we're going to learn today is that we're going to look at this. This is something called a servo motor. And it's like the intonation and everything is really different. And I'm actually, I mean, I'm thinking back of that. I'm so happy that they didn't get back to me because it's such a different thing to kind of start your career in your living room, running back and forth to the camera and like filming something and then looking at it. And like, I got to really find my own voice in a different way.

35:09And then like a year later, they offered me a show. But then I was so often running. I was like, no, I don't want to do this. You didn't fall into that place of being like a actor, like a YouTuber, or you're presenting a kind of personality. You're more focused on the product you're creating. I mean, I think it's the combination of it. I mean, I think of it as acting sometimes, but I only play the role in myself. But of course, it's like when you're shooting something for the seventh time, like you have to be able to muster that enthusiasm. But no, it's not a kind of think of everyday life. Me as a watered down version of the YouTube version.

35:52It's like. That's a cheap knockoff. Yes, the quick talk conversion. No, it's just like add a few parts water if you have me. But like on YouTube, it's just so condensed because you have jump cuts. And you know, like I'll script jokes and make sure that everything lands. And there's music and stuff. And then like in real life, you don't have any of that, but it's still me. What are some other cool robots in the early days that stand out to you? I mean, there's a million we can go through. But maybe what was like a challenging one, like a really challenging one in the early days? I mean, I remember the breakfast robot, which was my second project, was a challenging one.

36:32So eating cereal. Yeah, it's a robot that like pours milk and cereal and feeds me. And then I got a little bit of a, with a spoon. I was mostly challenging because there was so like, everything had to be in the right location. And there were so many takes before I got everything right, and by right, I mean, it makes an absolute mess. Yeah, that one was challenging. What it takes was that one. I don't know, probably 12, 10, something. Just a mess everywhere. As a mess, and also I use like Cheerios for this area, and my, it's shot in my old bedroom in San Francisco. And the floors were sticky for weeks afterwards.

37:10This goes into your autobiography. Yeah, nice. Which is what you can just type out the podcast and release it as a, my manager would be stoked. We'll fix it in post. Yeah, the feed, because you have like a couple of feeding ones, right? There's soup. Is there a soup one? Yeah, there's a soup robot. There's a beer pouring robot. I mean, that's, that's awesome. That's a difficult robotics problem in the shitty and the, in the perfect version of having an arm that interacts intimately with a human being. And one of the most intimate things you could do with a human being, that's PG, is defeated. I don't know where, where is he going with this?

37:54Oh my god, he's a YouTube comic come live. Like, damn it. So, like, to me, there's a, like feeding is tricky. Or even like getting a beer, even pouring a beer is tough until glass. Yeah, it's trickier than anyone who hasn't tried it, thanks. And even making it, I think what I realized is that like, making things really shitty or like failing in a spectacular way is also its own sort of skill. Because like, the shittiest robot is the one that doesn't turn on. But like, that isn't much to watch. So it was always like wanting for it to fail in these kind of spectacular ways. No, there's a lot of stuff to be said about engineering in it.

38:40Is there something to be said on a philosophical level about the value of a flawed robot? So like, the kind of robots you want is to be partially flawed. Like, do you think the kind of robots will have in the home that are friends and, you know, almost like pets? Wouldn't they need to be kind of shitty? Because we can love the, somehow we humans love the shitty. I mean, it is kind of endearing because I think it kind of, I'm going to mess up this world word. I anthropomorphize them. I think it's, I mean, I never feel as deeply connected to my room by as when it's like, I'm on a cliff. Like paper.

39:23Have you had the Rumbus talk? I mean, I've done that a lot. Yeah.

39:31And immediately anthropomorphize them. And then you have, it's dev a name, which is why most roboticists don't give names or gender to robots. Because you come connected to them. I'm of the opposite mind. You should have like an intimate relationship sounds weird. But you should have a close connection to robots. I mean, there's power in that. There's a social element of robotics, even an arm. I don't know. There's something about us humans that gains so much value from our interaction with dynamic objects. And we should like lean into that and post the runaway from it. That was always the confusing thing to me about robotics.

40:12It's the most roboticists run away from that. Yeah. Weird. Because it's obviously going to be robots are obviously going to be everywhere. Yeah. Obviously. But it's also humans are sensitive and squishy. And there's so much liability. Oh. Yeah. Yeah, but the humans are sensitive and squishy when they interact with each other and they heritage out all the time. Like sometimes they get together and they're like, oh, you're the best. No, you're the best. And then they leave each other and then they break each other's heart. Sorry about your break up. I'm actually drunk for the center. I'm being able to sleep for a night.

40:51I'm just slept all night. But from a safety protocol perspective, people think about like physical damage, not emotional damage. I know this sounds ridiculous. I know this sounds ridiculous, but it won't be. It's already happening. There's an app called replica where people have an intimate relationship within that AI chatbot and they hurt themselves. I was thinking about this. Okay. In dating, what if you, because you can train like a chatbot to kind of mimic the way that you talk to people and interact with people. Go on. Yeah. But then I'm like, okay, but what if we could all make AI versions of ourselves and have them date?

41:31Yeah. Like thousands, thousands of other AI people and have that as a way to turn out potential, potential candidates. Like I feel like that's going to be what's the, what's the, yeah. What's the, what, what, what, what, what's the point of like meeting 20 people if you're like, oh, but if we just just had our AI versions of ourselves interact, they'd be like, oh, you're, your method of conflict is not going to match or. What if the AI version of you like sleeps around with all the other AI's and becomes famous for that and it starts to sound only fans. And then it become, and you're like, what did you do?

42:09You come back home, you'd realize like, I don't want to create a monster. Create a monster. I mean, do I get a cut? Exactly. It's a question I'd ask. But I think it's definitely like, yeah, the human technology interaction is really interesting because I feel like I don't love any of the machines. That I have in my life. Really? You haven't, you haven't. I mean, I don't love my phone. I touch it all the time and it's there and it's like constantly. It's a constant presence. But there's nothing in the me that it feels like, oh, I love this object. Like I kind of despise it. Well, that might be the way you show love.

42:45I don't know. Yeah. That's a deeper. That's another psychoanalysis thing. So you know, there's not robots whom you've taken apart that you miss. No, they're all terrible. I mean, I have objects that I built that I love. None of the robots, I think. But that's also because there was a different, that was a different era where I wasn't really putting a lot of care into the projects I built. So the more care you put into it into the design to actually make it look, to make it functional, look good. That's where you put the love in. Yeah. I mean, it is. It's like, I feel like any technology company that figures out a way to get you to actually genuinely love your robot.

43:24Or like, love it in the way that you would love the pet. There's a lot to be gained. Yeah. And I think it's scary, depending on who the company is. Because then they can manipulate you. Yeah. If you love your Roomba, and all of a sudden your Roomba starts telling you to buy stuff. Yeah. Or it's a living. To put lotion on Jeff Bezos's head. Yeah. I don't know where the lotion came in, but yes, maybe a pie certainly. I just imagine my Amazon echo being like, hey, Jeff Bezos is a really great guy. But even though you have, and do you think it's possible to fall in love with a robot? Yeah. I mean, people fall in love with things all the time.

44:10Well, people have fallen in love with your shitty robots, probably. I guarantee you there's people listening to this that are a little bit hard -broken saying that you've never fallen in love with your shitty robots. They're like, but I had a really emotional connection to that robot. Like the one with it with a parent, Patsy on the back. Oh, that one. That one. That one I do like, I like that one a lot. That's probably my favorite shitty robot. Can you explain it? So it's the machine. It was my friend, Danielle Bochon, and we had this long -running joke about a proud parent machine that you could give a quarter in a Patsy on the shoulder.

44:45It says proud of you. So yeah, I still have that hanging on my wall in my workshop. So that one, I'm really happy with it. I just think it's a really funny concept. And also I executed the build wall. So that was. So it's an arm. Like what's the build? Yeah, I built it off of an old lamp arm. Yeah, basically it's just a motorized arm. And this kind of torso of a person. So it's actually a hand, right? I thought it correctly. It's just like the laser cut. It's just laser cut plywood. And it kind of has like, it looks creepy. Yeah, which I like. Yeah, the creep helps with the. Yeah. And yeah, it says proud of you son.

45:30Because I just thought that sounded more funny than proud of you daughter. And also proud of you son. Just it immediately communicates that it's a parent. It's not just like a colleague or something. It's like proud of you. Yeah. And charge you a quarter for it. Yeah, but you add like chat GPT on top of that and fine tune it on conversations. If you had to be the parents and all of a sudden you have a thing that can fundamentally transform your psyche. Yeah. It's all it takes. That's a beautiful creation. How'd you come up with that creation? That was my friend Daniel and I who had a long running joke about it.

46:05High level. Can you speak to your creative process? I think a lot of it. I mean, it's changed for the shady robots. Yeah. I mean, it has a lot of overlap. So it's identifying everyday problems. And in the shitty robot era, I would kind of take in everyday problem like, oh, I have a hard time getting up in the morning. And I would have solved it in the most ridiculous spectacular way I could think of. So for waking up in the morning, it was having an unalong clock that slaps me in the face with a rubber hand. And what I'm doing now is still identifying everyday problems. But I'm actually trying to like product design my way out of it.

46:43What in your experience was the funniest thing? Is it violence? Like the hand slapping you? Food eating? Is there, is there just a case about it? The funniest is, no, I think it's more like the proud parent machine. It's not violent. It doesn't, there's no, nothing is just emotional. And it's kind of a commentary on this fraught relationship. So we sometimes have with our parents and they're proud of us. Sometimes, every time. Sometimes. My dad visited, like last week and he was like, I just want to say I'm so proud of you. And for the life you built for yourself. And that was really sweet. Yeah, true.

47:22I put that on the back of my autobiography too. Yeah, it's not your fault, Simone. It's not your fault. Some stuff is my fault. What was the longest one to complete for the shitty robots that you remember? Is he spent, and a few of them, you spent quite a long time. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Which is also inspiring when you take so long in a project. Yeah, I think, um, can even the more like fun whimsical department rather than shitty robots. I built recently, um, this music box. So like a small music box that kind of has a barrel with little spikes and it plays the song. But I did a large version of that.

48:02That pops the sheet of bubble wrap and then like plays tones into a pan flute. So yeah, you can actually program it to play different songs. That won't kick my butt in so many creative ways and it was such a pain. I think that is probably the like. Weird, funny project that's taken me the longest and like the biggest engineering effort. Where's the sound coming from? So if you, it all came from me realizing that if you pop bubble wrap and you pop it right in front of the opening of a pan flute or like one of the pipes, you can have it play different tones. So that's what it does. So I felt this music instrument off of that.

48:43Okay. If it's okay, can you describe some, something like how it works, some of the technical details here? Yeah, so basically, I mean, one of the big issues that I had. So I worked with as of a year and a half back, I hired an engineer stew. So we were collaborating on it. But a big issue that we had was feeding in the bubble wrap sheet and like making sure that it feeds in straight and doesn't get skewed because you need to make like the popping feet, which is where you program this barrel to pop different bubbles need to be so perfectly aligned. On the bubble of the bubble wrap for it to pop in the right location.

49:24There's a feeder for the bubble wrap. That's a challenge and then you have to have a barrel with the little baby feet on it that pops the bubble wrap. So that makes me think that barrel was a pain as well. I had to get a like this rotary setup for my CNC and yeah, it was it was a lot of work. But that was really fun and it's just like, this is probably my favorite privilege of my job is that I can go down any rabbit hole, I think, find interesting. Did you have a lot of joy from popping the bubbles? A lot of self soothing and like I got to spend I think I spent a week trying to figure out the best material to pop bubble wrap with because if you have to if you kind of put them to through or through if you put a sheet of bubble wrap through two rigid tubes.

50:21The air kind of just escapes from one side of the bubble into the other. So what I realized was that if you have a squishy material like kind of a yoga mat material in between it, it actually it prevents that and pops it a lot more reliably. So you're increasing the pop reliability was a huge effort as well. You have to pop a squishy thing with another squishy thing because you don't need a lot of force. Yeah, like you just need it to not air to not be able to escape anywhere. Wow. But then also we had there was different qualities of bubble wrap where there was a lot of transference between different bubbles.

50:57So instead of the bubble popping, it would just seep the air into a neighboring bubble and that like membrane would kind of so you know, I just like getting to spend weeks on weeks of just studying bubble wrap. Did you ever think about like publishing academic work on bubble wrap? No. Would that be epic? There's nobody's done this. I bet you nobody's done squishing it squishing material on squishy versus squish for popping. I bet somebody has, but you know, I always I thought I was going to go into academia. Like I was such an ambitious student. I loved school. I actually applied to MIT, but then I pulled out because I was like, no, I don't want to do it.

51:39But now I realize it's really good that I didn't because I'm too much of a spaz. Too much of a spaz. Now I'm distracting. I'm thinking there must be papers about when you have two bubbles. Yeah, you need to know the physics of two bubble when you have two bubbles colliding. One will pop first and there has to be good models of that. But that's very that has to do with chemistry and whatever the material the ball was made from. But then no, there's materials in here. This got somebody must understand bubble wrap deeply, like deeply. So I'm just going to take a quick restroom break because Lex is on his own train now.

52:19And I'm just going to leave you the top of that bubble. Yeah, actually don't need to go to the restroom. I'm going to insert like a two hour instructional here with like a blackboard. It's the skill of a podcaster. I feel like I could throw you any topic and you could just go on about it. I don't know if I have that skill. I can't see anything. Okay. Bubble on bubble interaction. Go. So you did mention MIT. You went to college for physics for one year and you dropped out. What do you learn from that? Who do you think shouldn't go to college? I think first of all, you shouldn't listen to me. That should be the name of your autobiography.

53:08First of all, you should listen to me. I you know, I realized that I was there for the wrong reasons. I had this deep. I got completely like starting to get grades in school, which in Sweden at that time, we started getting it at eighth grade. So when I was 14, it just kind of hijacked my brain because I realized that I could put a number on how smart I was. And I got obsessed with it. And I wanted to study mechanical engineering because I was like, I like machines. But then physics was kind of the hardest thing you could do when I had this like deep need to prove to myself that I was smart. So I started studying physics.

53:53Realized I wasn't that smart. I realized, or I mean, just mostly that I like, I love math, but I don't love math 10 hours a day. Yeah. And also, I think I am a generalist through and through like I'm decent at a fair amount of things, but definitely not a specialist. And anyways, and this it was such a specialist type of area that I felt like the other parts of my brain kind of just dwindled and died. So I think I think most of all of people are thinking about going to college, and especially if you're here in the States, and it's so fucking expensive. Really. Okay, there's two, there's two things I want to do.

54:38One is like, actually go to a workplace where people are doing the job that you think you want to do if you want to become a doctor, like be at a hospital and like try to see how doctors work. And if you actually like it because I feel like people have a lot of ideas of what it's going to be like, and it just doesn't match with reality. And then I think when people figure out what they want to do, there's kind of, that's two separate questions or there's two questions that you can split out of that. One is like, what do you actually want to do that for me for the last 10 years is building stuff.

55:11But then there's a second part to that question, which is what context do you want to do that? Do you want to build stuff at a startup or at a big corporation? Do you want to build stuff for an art gallery or for the movies or for YouTube? And I think that's often like people only learn how to answer the first question. But then it's like the context means as much because I was building stuff at Punch Through Design. And I wasn't getting that like deep fulfillment. Like I felt like I wasn't fully using myself and like hitting all of my gears because I just wasn't that motivated about building stuff for other people.

55:49And I changed the context and everything changed. And so sometimes you do need to consider resume and stuff like that for depending on the... But I think people consider that way too much, especially modern times. I feel like you don't need to go to college just for the resume. I feel like the biggest benefit of college, I mean there's a bunch, but one is just to do hard things. But you could do hard things anywhere. But some people need to be, I was probably one of those people, to be forced to do hard things. And the other is to meet fascinating humans from all walks of life that have all kinds of different passions.

56:31And it allows you to learn depending on the major you can learn generally. And you can search if you're doing it efficiently about what actually inspires you. And the other thing is the resume thing. But ultimately you don't need college to find your passion to run with it. I mean I have so much college from although like I think it's... I chose a different set of experiences. And when I applied to MIT I was, I think I was 24, because I was like, oh maybe I should become an electrical engineer. Because I really liked electronics. But then I remember seeing that the average age was 18 and I was like, oh fuck no, I can't hang out.

57:17Or like be in a room filled with 18 year olds who are smarter than me. So I think I definitely like missed the train on having that experience. But at the same time I did so many other things and I chose other experiences and I wouldn't trade them. But I still like, I mean I'll go to on a campus and I'll be like, oh. But I think it's also because I have a dreamy idea of what it is. Because I never had to do it in practice fully. Exactly, it's the phone ball. Yeah. Huh. Yeah, a lot of people really struggle with that burden. They'll go, it doesn't matter how long you go through. If you don't go all the way to the PhD, a lot of people have the formal.

58:01It's a silly little notion I think. Because I think you should be doing college or school until you find something that lights your heart aflame. Well, you're like, fuck, yes, I want to do this. Yeah. And one with it. I mean, you can find that in other contexts as well. I found it. Yeah, but yeah, but it is a buffet of experiences that you can have. What about what was the most fun robot to make? Or musical artistic creation where the process was the most fun? Oh, they're all painful in different ways. So pain. Yeah. You find pain fun? No, but it's definitely the pride of getting to pull something off or like managing to pull something off even when it was really difficult is very satisfying.

58:53What was the difficult thing that you pulled off? You were like, yeah, this is cool. I like working on jigs up puzzles, but I don't like how much table space they take up because I like just have one big table where it can do it. And that's also my dining table. So I made this mechanical table where you can switch between two table tops. And that was an incredibly painful project. And I'm really happy with the outcome. And like so proud that I managed to pull it off. How does this wish table tops? It's a tambour mechanism. So like tambour, like you'll have on like old record player. Like it's these like synth slots of wood with fabric on the back and you can kind of get them to go around curves.

59:33So basically one of the table tops or table surfaces is tambour. And then there's a little crank and you can kind of roll it off to the side. And it reveals another table top under it that you can lift up because it's on cams. So you can switch between the two. I think that one was both really difficult to pull off. And it's also one of few projects that I use in my everyday life. Like I use it almost every day. You know what a really cool one was that those part of your TED talk. Where this is a rotating thing that you wear in shoulders. Was that hard to make? So for people who haven't seen your TED talk, they should of course.

1:00:11But it's how you describe it. Oh, I'll cut out the best joke. How would you call that device? I don't even know. I never used it beyond the TED talk really. Yeah, but basically it's the shoulder rig and it has this like almost like saturn ring looking platform that goes around. I can't even remember what the problem proposition was that I was trying to solve. Variety probably introduce them. Yeah, I'm going to hear maybe in an element of surprise because you can put popcorn as you did on it. And it goes around as a little hand. Why is it like a tiny hand funny? I don't know, but it just slams whatever is on my thing into your face.

1:00:51Yeah, I don't know. Was that easy to make? Yeah, that one's fine. I can't. There was, I mean, my TED talk was so, yeah, for one once again, they cut out my best joke. What was the best joke? My best joke. They didn't even ask me about it. I was, so there's this whole lead up where I built a chopping machine. So it's a machine that chops vegetables and has two giant knives and it goes, think, think, think, think, and it's kind of terrifying. And I show a video of it and then it ends on this gif of it chopping up a banana. And I'm kind of scrunching up my face being like, ugh, ugh. And the whole reason I show that project is because I'm leading it up to the punchline of, oh, and as a bonus, this gif right here is the perfect response if anyone ever sends you dick pics you don't want, which brought down the house.

1:01:43It does it every time. And they cut it out without asking me because they're like, oh, but we wanted people to be able to show it in classrooms. And I was like, I have abandoned the hope of being shown in classrooms for years ago. I think that's a good joke. Thank you. That's a really good one. So you're okay going sometimes a little bit edgy. I mean, I'm, I'm, I say that I'm, I'm crude and wholesome because I can be very crude, but I also try really, really hard to be a good person. Yeah. And to like, I'll say shit and fucking all that stuff, which I don't even think is crude. But yeah, but I really, really try to wield the power that I have in a thoughtful way.

1:02:28So no, I can, I wouldn't call me edgy because I'm not, I don't think it's edgy. It's all like shopping up banana one knives and saying it's a good gift response to anyone that sends you dick pics is definitely not edgy or correct. Yeah. I think it's pretty, it's a funny joke. Yeah, it's pretty funny. I feel bad that that cut that. I mean, it's fine. It's like, it's a decision that I made really early on where I was like what I'm, I think often people misinterpret what I'm doing as being for children, which I think is part because like my projects were always really colorful and fun. I think it also has some sprinkles of sexism of being like, oh, it's a woman doing something.

1:03:10She must be doing it for the children. And I'm like, fuck the children. So I think I would just really early on decided of like, oh, no, I'm not going to try to cater to that, which like still, I mean, I get a lot of messages from parents being like, can you please stop cussing in your videos? And I'm also like, I get it. But also that is not what's going to mess up your kids. I really try to be thoughtful and a decent enough role model. But I'll also acknowledge that humans fuck. Yeah. Somehow that you being able to say that F you to this slow word word. What do I can't I can't scare.

1:03:57It sounds better when you say F you. It's it's it's a dance. I should boy. Have you ever made a robot that dances with you? No. You need a task partner. I get lonely. So I get a lot of questions. Yeah, I feel like that's the theme of this whole podcast. Yeah. What's the most embarrassed you've ever been on your podcast?

1:04:26So I don't know if you've experienced this, but I generally embarrassed by most things I say inside my head. Yeah. So like when I say something, like no, it's just there's a voice inside my head that goes. Yeah. Like what? Your disappointment. Like that the parent petting in the back that the hand stops working. Yeah. Just slows down.

1:04:57Yeah. And then there's an awkward silence. You don't know what to say next. That's really embarrassing usually. I used to work as a journalist so I know how to sit with a silence and try to drag it out of you.

1:05:17See what I did there? You gave up. You. You. You. You. You. I quit. You. You. You. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. Actually it was probably on my T is because everybody was dressing like sweatpants. Very chill. Wear. And I was like, I like taking everything seriously. It just felt like it was my way of saying F you to the way things are. Because I like I always admire Richard Feynman. I like it. How there's like a classiness to it. So I don't know if it's for visual purposes but it's just how I feel when I put on a suit. It makes it makes me feel like I'm going to take this really really seriously. Yeah.

1:06:05And if I embarrass myself it's all my fault. Because I tried general excuse. I tried 100%. The interesting thing about your TED Talk to go to a dark topic. This will happen when I walked off stage. No, what happened when you walked off stage? Found out that I had a brain tumor. Was that not where you're going? There's nothing else dark about my? Yeah. Well, yes. I thought you knew through the TED Talk you found out right after. I mean, the reason that I found out was partly because of the TED Talk. Because my mom came into town to be there for it. And my right eyelid was swollen and it kind of been swelling over a while.

1:06:51And I even got in comments about it on my YouTube channel. And I thought it was allergies because I was like, oh, it's just pollen allergies. It's just affecting my one eye because maybe I sleep mostly on that side. I don't know. And my mom came into the stage and then my coover for my TED Talk. And she was like, Simone, you have to like have a scan or see what's up. Well, like we have to go to the doctor and she really pushed me to do it. Because I was like, fine, fine. And I had an MRI scan on like 5 p .m. on a Friday night. My boyfriend at the time was there. And I remember like halfway through an MRI scan, they kind of pull you out.

1:07:37And they inject contrast fluid. Or this like thing that yeah, just gives them another type of scan. And the nurse looked at me in this way. And was like, how long have you had symptoms for? And that's what I knew that they'd found something. And then they like shoved you back into the machine for another 20 minutes. And my ex was just seeing like them like zooming in and out of my scans. And there was like this obviously something that just looked wrong. And they sent me to the ER. And I found out that I had a brain tumor, the size of a golf ball. They've probably been grown since I was a teenager.

1:08:13So it'd been growing over like 10, 15 years. And yeah, I had surgery to remove it. And then it kept on growing. The parts that they couldn't remove. And I went through radiation treatment. So that was like two years that just was kind of dedicated to just getting better and getting back to where I am now. And I remember like I was so stoked about 2020. Because I was like, this is the first year that I'm not held back by my health. And I'm like finally going to be able to do everything on feather. And then the pandemic happens. And you're kind of just like, okay, just in the back seat of what's happening and things that are out of my control again.

1:08:49And your public, you made a couple of videos about, yeah, about it. I have a brain tumor. My brain tumor is back. You kind of, you know, you name your tumor Brian. You kind of make it a lighthearted thing. But you don't reveal much of the darkness. But we've scared or some low points. Of course, I was, of course, I was scared. I mean, it's terrifying. It's like, and also when it's in your brain, like, you know, I was like, take any other part of me, but don't take my brain. No, it's just unfathomable thing that happens. And you're like, I'm healthy. I've had, how could this possibly be a brain tumor?

1:09:35Like my eye is swollen. Like, there's nothing there. I haven't had any seizures. I haven't had any cognitive issues. I haven't had any headaches, even. Like, how is that even possible? So you go through a lot of different stages of just trying to understand what it is. And I think I remember being hit, like, right as I found out, when we're in like an Uber, Port Uber driver, from where I had my MRI scan to the ER, where they sent me. And I was really both really grateful that I've gotten so much more out of life than I ever thought I would. Like, I've had a hell of a life. And even if we would have ended really early, I would have done so much more than I ever thought.

1:10:18But I was also really, really sad that I hadn't had kids yet. Like, that was my big grief of like, fuck, I haven't had time to have kids yet. But no, it's terrifying. I mean, the prospect of somebody cutting up your head. Like, that's terrifying. But it honestly wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. What about the radiation treatment? What are some things that people should... You learn about it, about the process and about yourself, through that, that people might be interested about? I think surgery was both harder and easier than radiation treatment because it was harder because it was so much more intense than it's such a dramatic thing, like going to the hospital that morning and being like, I don't know, and you feel so awful when you wake up.

1:11:13But then the recovery from it was pretty linear. Like, almost every week, I would get a little bit better. The thing about radiation is that it was not linear at all. And it kind of drained me in this weird... Like, it was so hard to predict. And also, they put me on these... I spent months feeling like I was high out of my mind. And I couldn't process reality in a way that I normally would. Like, everything just felt off. Like, I felt like I was high on drugs. And I kept on asking my doctors what was going on. And they're like, no, I don't know. I don't think it's anything related. And I was on this Alzheimer's medicine that they put you on to prevent dementia from radiation treatment.

1:11:58Like, kind of as a preventative. And I found all these subreddits of people using that Alzheimer's medicine to get high. And people be like, oh my god, bro, I was like 20 milligrams yesterday. And I was high out of my mind. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm 30 milligrams a day. Like, of course, it feels weird. And that was honestly one of the scariest parts of it. Because that was the first time where I felt like it genuinely affected my way of processing reality. And yeah, I was so relieved when I found out that that was what was causing it. Because I felt like I was going crazy. But even after surgery, like, I woke up and I felt like myself.

1:12:40Like, everything was, I got no brain injury. So obviously, this is like my experience from somebody who came out of it pretty unscathed, who didn't get any brain injuries and didn't have to do any of that recovery. It's more just the recovery from like, the physical act of somebody cutting your skull open and taking a large chunk out. Did you research all the things that can go wrong? No. No. No. I honestly, I'm a bit surprised by how I acted.

1:13:11It's pausing for you to pour. Your welcome editors. So like a commercial. This is like a work injury from being a YouTuber. It's all like free. If there's audio that comes in. Yeah, sponsored by Capwater. I was surprised by how little I was willing to think critically about what my doctors told me to do. Like, I very early on, the neurologist that I worked with, he was the one who was on call at the ER the day where I came in. And he was the one who ended up doing my surgery. And he kind of became like my rock in this. And I just 100 % trusted him. And he turned out to be an amazing doctor and like did a great job and was just like, so I got so so lucky.

1:14:09But I remember my mom being like, oh, we should like talk about second opinions. And like we should try to do more research. And I was like, so unwilling to do that. Because opening up to the idea that there are multiple ways or multiple things that might be right or wrong was so terrifying. Like I wanted there to just be like, no, this is the only option. This is what we need to do. And if I started questioning that, then I don't know if I would have been able to go through with it. So yeah, it was a strange, I just really wanted to trust the doctors that I worked with. And I was very scared to question them in any way.

1:14:51How did that process change your relationship with the death? Are you afraid of death? You pondering your mortality? Yeah, I think it took away a part of youth. For me, like the innocence. Yeah, I mean, you kind of think of terrible things as something that happens to other people and death and illness. So I think it kind of fast -tracked that for me. But it mostly changed my relationship to life. It changed, it's made me so much more gentle with myself. Like going through illness, it forces you to redefine what it means to be good. And before being good had been pushing myself really hard. It had been working and I don't know, just being really hard with myself and disciplined.

1:15:48And when you're healing from something, being good is listening to your body. It's resting. It's like really being entuned with what your health, where your health is at. And I think that is something that's kind of stuck with me. Since then, I'm like so much more gentle and delicate with myself. And with others? Oh, you're... Fuck out. I think it definitely, it's like when you're young and healthy, it's really hard to know what it feels like to be ill. And I remember, you know, you like go to yoga class and you'd be like, oh my god, this is too slow. Like I want it to be, I have so much more energy.

1:16:29Like I need to. And when I was recovering from my brain surgery, there was this yoga studio in here by my house. And they had yoga for seniors. And I was so stoked because I was like, oh, this is the yoga class I'll be able to take. And I think that was really eye -opening of just like, there's no... You kind of imagine that it's just like, oh, just push yourself harder. But no, that's not it. With age or sickness or it's just, you've got to be so gentle with yourself. And you have to cater to people where they're at. Yeah, and just the appreciation of this, like biological vehicle you get and you should take care of it.

1:17:11Being sick sucks. It's awful. And I really, I'm really motivated to postpone that for as much as I can. And also, I was so tremendously grateful when I got ill that I felt like I had so much to take from. Like I had so many energy reservoirs. I'd spent my life taking pretty decent care of my body. And like exercising and eating well and like not wrecking my body in any way. And I felt like this was the first time where that was so critical. And I felt like my body was ready for it. You know? I think you're going to go the other way. Like, you can take care of your body all you want. Bad stuff happens.

1:17:57So you should go on drug binges and go out and do crazy things. I mean, I also had that thought where I was like, I fucking floss every day. How do I have a brain tumor? I've been good. Like, why does this happen to me? But more so, it was like my body was so resilient and ready for it. And I was really, really proud of it. It's amazing that the human body is able to recover from even the harshest things. Yeah, it's wild. And my brain, so after surgery, because yeah, I had a brain tumor this size with a golf ball. Kind of behind my right eye. And after brain surgery, you kind of just have this big hole in your head, like this void.

1:18:42And usually your brain stays that way. Like, it retains the shape even after the brain tumor is gone. But for some reason, my brain was feeling really ambitious and it has completely flopped back. And I have almost like a normal looking brain now where doctors are like, oh, we would almost not be able to tell that you had one. So yeah, that just blew my mind. I'm being like, when did it? Was that why I had all those headaches? That's their surgery. It's just my brain being like, trying. Working. Yeah. Oh, pretty cool thing I want to ask you about is the everyday calendar you worked on. That was a long time.

1:19:22That took a long time. Yeah. So basically, I designed this calendar. Like I wanted to start meditating every day. But it's really hard to meditate every day until I kind of build that habit. And what I would do is I would make these grids in my notebooks where I could like check a box for every day. Like I just wanted like a little ding. I did it and like the sting of accountability. But then I was like, this is, I don't want to have a notebook that I do this in. Like I want an art piece that I can hang on my wall, like accountability art. And I made this thing called the everyday calendar, which has an entire year on it.

1:19:58So it's 365 days. And if you tap any of the days, you light it up. And we turned it into a Kickstarter campaign. And it's now a product that I'm selling through my product business, the etch store. What's it called? The etch store. Yeah. And that for people who are confused is the right way to pronounce your last name. Which does it. It's the right. But it's so wrong. It makes my last name is spelled G -I -E. R -T -Z. Who does that song? If loving you is wrong, I don't want to be right. Yeah. If I'm not singing my last name, yeah. That's what that's all means. Because what's his name? The from the office, he covers it from the British office, which is the better office.

1:20:42Okay. Tangent upon a tangent upon a tangent. So you said you created the everyday calendar to make a more beautiful, and quotes, and more sacred, gold star system on a wall. Not a notebook that gets thrown into a drawer. Yeah. Well, well said, past me. You said that making this calendar taught you a lot in quotes. I feel like a real investigative journalist. You've said in 2018. Yeah, I'm waiting for the gacha. Can you share some of the lessons you've learned? Like, what do you mean you've learned a lot from making this calendar? What are we talking about? As somebody who builds things, manufacturing something is such an unrelated process, like making one of something and making 10 ,000 of something.

1:21:26Like, they're not even distant cousins. Like, it's completely different beasts to tackle. And, um, yeah, so that was one of it. Everything takes so much longer than you think it's going to. I did a Kickstarter campaign that we launched in 2018 after my surgery. And, yeah, it's just, you know, you think you're so generous with the timelines. We still ended up being a year late, but we shipped. We're good. Um, but yeah, I mean, I'm trying to get my product business off the ground. We launched in May. And it's just, yeah, it's just a pain. As somebody who's terrified of disappointing people, I'm like, why have I chosen some of the jobs where it's the easiest to disappoint people?

1:22:12You can disappoint people at scale. No. Yeah, I can disappoint people at scale. And also, that I'm actually haven't paid me money to deliver on something, which is a terrible transaction. But it's, I'm just stoked to realize that I love the job still. Like, I love the product development aspect of it. I love trying to design stuff for manufacturing and figure it out and like, anticipate how people are going to use your products. And like the everyday calendar, I mean, we've sold thousands of them now. They're all over the world. And it's like, people actually finding something useful that I made and implementing them into their lives.

1:22:53It's just mind boggling, especially because this is tracking habits, good habits. So bad ones you can do it. Jesus, however you want. I wanted a drinking binge again today. Yes, that's great. Kicked another kid. What does it take to a mass manufacturer or something? What did you learn about that? Like, what are, can you like, elucidate the gap between the one, the prototype versus the product development for mass manufacturer? I mean, for one of it is like, yeah, the manufacturing, the tooling that they use in manufacturing, and to do things in a cost effective way is really different. Like I can make a one off, then it's going to take me 17 hours, but obviously you can't spend 17 hours for calendar when you're doing something in factory.

1:23:45I think is that like quality control is such a beast. You cannot trust anybody telling you that things are going to be okay. Like you have to have such trust issues. And it's also terrifying. I mean, if somebody who's doing everything independently, I haven't raised any capital for it. Like it's all self -invested and we're doing it all in -house. It's just, you know, yeah, I could buy 10 ,000 calendars, but then what if all of them have a manufacturing issue? Or, you know, it's just terrifying because the risks are so high, but also, I got to this point where for when this is something that I wanted to do for a long time, but something that going through health problems taught me is how fragile my business model is.

1:24:38Because I mean, I'm basically running an influencer business where I make videos on YouTube and then I have an ad spot and I talk about a brand. So like I'm a human billboard, which is fine. It grants me a lot of freedom to play around. But if I am not well enough to be on a stage giving talks or be in front of a camera, everything stops. Like it's such a pillar of a business and it can topple over at any given moment or like YouTube could change the algorithm. Like legislation could catch up and change how you're able to advertise on the internet. Like it's so frail and I really felt like I need to diversify what I'm doing and also just to keep it interesting for myself.

1:25:23So what I decided was to start a product business because also it's kind of this perfect combination of businesses where I can turn my YouTube channel into an R &D department because I have a reason to constantly be exploring things and turning out new products. I can also do that as early audience testing and see what people are actually excited about. And if there's something that I think would make an interesting product, I can pass that over to the product business and then once I'm ready to market that and sell it, I can pass it over to the YouTube channel. So it's like I can kind of once I realize that YouTube didn't feel like an end goal for me.

1:25:59I was like, okay, then I can use it as a tool to accomplish these other things that I want to do when this was one of them. So yeah, it's a lot that went into it. And one of the tools, it says R &D, but it's also kind of advertisement for the cool stuff that you're doing. I think I think Mr. Beast is one of the creators that's also starting to understand this power of this reputation that you've built of like people trust you, like they love you. To do cool stuff, they trust that you put your heart and soul into a thing. Yeah. So like and they feel your pain and the struggle to, you know, like if a product like for example, say the everyday calendar, like there was issues manufacturing something like this.

1:26:42Would you have? Yeah. They would feel the pain of that and they would still support it. I mean, that's the beauty of it when you have the actual person right there struggling with their with their lows and highs. That's a decision that I made really early on where I was like the yet store is supported by me, but it's separate for me. It's not merchandise. You don't have to know who I am or care about who I am to be interested in this product. And if you go on the website, yeah, it's. Store plug. It's like it's I'm on the about page. Why you see hate. Dot store. Like you have to go to the about page to find anything about me.

1:27:20Like it's definitely not like this is the most brand. And I think anybody who's followed me for a long time will see that like my personality is sprinkled into it, but it's still like clean off of me. And I think that's also because I wanted something that was separate for me because I am also running out of narcissism, believe it or not. I'm like, I don't feel like I want to I don't want it to be about me. And I want it to be something that can also run independently of me. And doesn't like I want to be able to retire my face and still do like the other stuff because I think it's fun, but I don't want that to be the core of it.

1:27:56What are the kind of stuff have you worked on for the product design for for each? So I mean a lot of the products I decided to launch the store with a really small roster of products because developing products is such a it's such upfront, heavy like cost -wise and just investments such a it's very big upfront investment. So and I know that it would take a while or I knew it would take a while for me to kind of find the right tonality and visual language for the brand. So I just wanted to launch it. Have it be out there. Start working on it. Start like learning more about what it entails. Even if we just had a small roster product.

1:28:39So we've released it with we have a puzzle. Yes. This is the web. But I wanted to release a puzzle that has one piece missing. So it's actually for as far as I can tell it's the world's first officially incomplete puzzle. You get 499 out of five or into pieces. I keep the 500th piece. So I have a box in my workshop with everybody's missing pieces. Yeah. And I don't know what to do with it yet, but someday it will come to me. Profile and artistic statement. It is something. It's definitely something and I'm surprised by how many of them we've sold, which I also like I kind of wanted to have that product out there because I was like can you imagine having a pitch deck if I do ever raise money of being like you know how good I am at selling things.

1:29:25I sold people 5 ,000 incomplete puzzles. Also have you know it's like a lot of the products I call them basket fillers. Like they're kind of just like stuff where I'm like yeah this is like easier to throw into your basket. I mean we have these rings. I'm wearing them. So there's a screwdriver ring which is a Phillips head screwdriver. I've been a screw ring that kind of has a recess like a Phillips head screw. I have these sawdust socks that make you look like your feet are covered in sawdust. Like you spent all time in the all day of the shop without having to put any of the actual effort in.

1:29:58But then we have four more products in the pipeline that we're working on and that are kind of the more the the big ambitious products that are more in line with what I want the brand to be. Like the tagline is unique solutions to everyday problems and it's just a lot of like trying to develop novel takes on existing products. There's something where the function becomes a bigger bigger part of the design. Yeah. So what's the process of grading something like that like they're even the everyday calendar. So like what are some challenges that are interesting along the way. So you have to sketch it out.

1:30:35You have to like brainstorm draw things out and then create a schematic and see like how how do you know what it's going to look like visually. Don't. And it's I mean I so the everyday calendar the first so I just built it for myself first like that did not come as a as a product idea first. And that's kind of been the process that I've had for a lot of things like I make it for myself and then I'm like oh maybe other people would find this useful too. So the everyday calendar the first prototype I made it had actually physical mechanical toggle switches. So 365 toggle switches that you could flip.

1:31:12So if you worked out that day or meditated for me was meditating you can just flip that switch. And that was great. But when I started evaluating it as a product it's if you have 365 of something in a product like the run -and -weight cost is crazy. So the cheapest option most reliable option we could find was capacitive touch. So basically it's a touch interface. And the front plate is a circuit board itself. So it's this like the circuit board that's designed in this really fancy way. So it looks like a beautiful piece of art not to do it but it's actually a circuit board which I also thought was really interesting of like using this that people usually hide away in products and it felt like a nod to my career in electronics as well.

1:32:05Being like no let's make it pretty and let's make it put it front and forward. But yeah I mean what I'm realizing now more and more is like there's so many of like I would love to turn the puzzle table into a product. But then it's like that would be a $7 ,000 table. And I don't want to sell a table for $7 ,000. So you're kind of limited to the price bracket you're in. And it's like your margins are tough like maintaining your margins are really really tough. And as somebody who's like I would love to sell the stuff that we're doing cheaper. But you just it's just not feasible like you need those margins to survive it.

1:32:40And well one of the genius things and the conversations I've had with Elon is the ability through sort of systematic questioning of how things have been done in the past to discuss what is the lowest cost way to solve a problem. And so he's very good at getting to like with Optimus robot for example the humanoid robot. How do you get the cost down? Yeah. And that seems to be like one of the essential things to do. And any product that you have to mask manufacturer is constantly discussed like how do we simplify? Simplify. Definitely a design limitation that's interesting is both hard and interesting to work with in.

1:33:17And that's such a different thing as well. It's like when I talked about before like what is the context and what you're creating things like I'm still building things I'm still inventing things. But I changed the context and has a very different set of limitations and constantly trying to simplify your product to make it cheaper. And yeah it's a really interesting and different type of design process. You can lose some of the magic though right? Like people can do that a little bit too much. I think Apple is famous like Johnny Ives famous for sort of focusing on design first and not worrying about the cost later because you don't want to sacrifice there's some stuff that's going to cost more but it keeps some of the magic.

1:34:01I think it's for some of the products that we're working on it's like I'm like let's just make it the best we think it can be and then we can scale back from there. Like just like let's not impose these limitations on our self -self -self -front like let's just make it the most beautiful version of itself and then we can decide what we want to compromise with or compromise on. Yeah. That's what I say every day when I look in the mirror. It's just the most beautiful and then we can compromise. Yeah. Let's go on that suit. Yeah. And then see how shit goes wrong later. All right back a little bit to the robots just or actually to one of your more epic projects I mean they're all epic but chocolate.

1:34:44Yeah. You cutting into a Tesla and turning into an epic truck. What was that like? Where did the idea come from? The idea came from that I really wanted an electric pickup truck. Like I've only really driven electric because I got my drivers license pretty late and I'm like one of that first generation drivers it's like probably never going to have a gas vehicle. But yeah this was in 2018 as well. 2018 was a big year. Yeah. Or 2019 I can't remember and I figured that we could just make our own. Did you took a Tesla? Tesla Model 3. Model 3 and you cut off a piece of it and you turn it into a pickup truck.

1:35:31What's the uh it looks pretty badass. So what are some of the challenges of doing that? It's unlike other projects you've done. Yeah. It's very much outside of my realm. Like I'm not a car person. I haven't worked on cars before. So we brought in a big team and had another project manager for it and stuff because also like cars you definitely don't want things to go wrong. Like there's no part of me that wants to fuck around and make something that's going to be really unsafe for me or for other people who are driving with me. So yeah I mean it was about a year of planning and then we got the car and then we spent a month just tearing it apart and trying to make it.

1:36:16I was so set like I really wanted the car just for its function and I was like I'm so fine with if it's really ugly but then we managed to make it actually look really good. So that was in part of the discussion like how the final thing looks. I wasn't so I wasn't that fussed about it. I was like I just wanted to I just want it for its function like I really want this car. I don't want it because it looks cool but then it ended up looking pretty cool as well and I'm really I mean even now a couple of years later when there are some more options of electric pickup trucks I still stand in truck law.

1:36:54Like she's like Rivian 4 -F150 like they're all great but they're giant. You're sitting there on the porch you're a cowboy hat. Yeah. Drinking whiskey and saying. With my cattle dog. Yeah. No like a shotgun saying. I want a like a small 90s pickup truck. Back to shitty robots. You remember a bull example of that is just the graveyard of parts. I mean I've gotten better at keeping projects intact in the beginning. I used to disassemble every project because I was also much much more stringent budget. So if I needed a motor then I would like seal it off of an existing robot or a previous robot but I've got a really good at not doing that now because I'm like maybe one day I want to have a museum exhibit and then they would be nice to have all of those machines intact and not having to rebuild them.

1:37:55Centuries from now you can look at Benjamin Franklin's house. Oh yeah no we're just gonna look at my house. Yeah just house. Some weird shit. Yeah that goes great with my idea of myself. With a autobiography. Yeah. You said that people keep requesting in the comments. That I put a dildo on it. Yeah. I have. We must that actually where you were gonna ask. Yeah. I have dildo written in my notes. I thought I just made it into a run -to punch like we were actually gonna get there. Yeah that was in the early days in the city of robot days but now I have a filter on my YouTube channel for every possible spelling of a dildo.

1:38:39So I mean people want to probably sexualize robots right and then or they put what they want to sexualize my relationship with them. Yeah. Oh. You know because I have majority male followers and they're so sweet and so respectful like respectful 99 % but I realize like if there is a lot of I've realized that society hasn't taught men how to have female role models and the way that people channel it is through being like oh it's because I want to fuck her or I want to date her or I want to marry her. And I'm like I don't think you want any of those things. I think you actually just admire my work but you don't know how to look up to a woman.

1:39:27Yeah. That's beautifully put. What about weapons? Do you get requests to put weapons on a thing? Yeah. It's interesting. I kind of started in robotics. That's just like a happy camper who is really into like tinkering and now I'm kind of seeing some of the darker parts of it. I remember first time I went to a proper factory and I saw like big industrial robot arms at work and I was like oh wow this is what it is about. You know and it was almost scary where I was like oh I've just been like playing around these tiny versions of this and I'm like oh my god everybody robotics is cool and fun and then you get in there and you're like this is kind of terrifying.

1:40:07You were platforming the very things they'll destroy. Yeah. You're making fun of entertaining. I'm the mouthpiece that I'm like getting people into robotics and engineering and we're all just building our demise. Yeah. Like accelerating speed. No but I mean I had that and like as the same with also with like companies who are saying that they're never going to put weapons on their robots and then have military contracts since I feel like that and you're like this is dark and scary. Fortunately I haven't got a lot of requests for it. Yeah drones are terrifying especially. They're fucking terrifying and it's really everything.

1:40:51I mean we humans are so good at creative ways of killing and fucking each other. It's like almost everything goes like and it's yeah I'm terrified of the future where we are going to use more robots to kill each other and come up with new and new creative ways to kill and hurt each other. Yeah emotionally, psychologically, physically. Yeah. Speaking of which what are your thoughts about I don't know if you've been paying attention but Chad G .P .T the investment in our in language models and artificial intelligence. Have you added speaking capabilities to any of your devices? I have a theory on.

1:41:29Yeah I used to have an Amazon Echo in my house but then I removed it. It just freaked me out that I could whisper from my bed and it hurt me. I'd be like Alexa, please Spotify. I feel like playing Spotify. Yeah fuck. I think it is a powerful tool that we are not fully ready for. And I don't know. I think the internet is kind of a parade of us using powerful things and harmful ways. And I think chatbots are really really exciting. I'm stoked to have a personal assistant that's like a virtual assistant that actually does a good job and can solve problems for me. But yeah it also feels like it can get dark really really quickly.

1:42:24Yeah because you can form close connections like we're talking about with it and then it can be used to manipulate you. Manipulate you in terms of what is true and manipulate you in terms of getting you to buy stuff. Yeah. Or maybe because at least for now it's centralized getting everybody to think the same way. I mean for me it's the same and like algorithms being used to radicalize people or kind of having that as a consequence of the way that they work and combine that with a really advanced language model and like you can control people's worldview in a way that you could. I mean it's just it's wild and I think we're not ready for it.

1:43:07And I don't know if we ever would be because we're very impressionable little squishy flash bags. Which takes us back to the one the squishy flash flash bags interact which one pops first. Still. Bubble gum bubble new paper paper coming out like three minutes. We were talking about oh um what about consciousness. So you never anthropomorphize the robots. Did they ever come to life for you? Where you kind of thought no because they built them and I know how they work. So that prevents you from being able to see the magic. I don't know yeah but I think it's like I definitely when I did a lot of the shitty robot stuff like I wanted them to move like a human or like in a more organic way and not just like 0 .8 to 0 .B.

1:43:57Yeah. Which is used as way to program stuff. Um so I wanted other people trans or homophysed them but I don't think I I did necessarily. I'm trying to think of a piece of technology that I've kind of projected feelings upon but no I can't. So sometimes what makes me anthropomorphize something even though I built it is um there's a element surprise so especially with machine learning you're surprised by the kind of things it does. Mm -hmm. How you ever been surprised by a robot? No because they're all pretty dumb. Like also the robots I built it's like they're all just servos moving from I mean they're I don't think I've built anything with a huge amount of sensors or like they're just moving in a pattern that I program them to move.

1:44:49What's the most complex thing you've built? I mean probably truckload. Truckload. Yeah was complex just for the sheer scale of it and like the I mean both I think that was my biggest project both in terms of build scope but also in terms of impact that it had like that project just went wild but then yeah then I don't know the bubble wrap music box. I know there are complicated different ways. That one is epic. How does the bubble wrap connect to the flute by the way? How does that work? The flute is just right where like mound dead right where it pops it. Okay. Yeah. So fast and I gotta watch it.

1:45:32Yeah that's fun. Funny enough in my deep investigative journalistic research of you yeah says you're you're used to be an MMA reporter. Yeah. How how how how how did that happen? How did you get into it? I was really into martial arts. I was like a huge UFC buff. I mean this is um 2010 maybe you practice martial arts yourself. I did yeah I was mostly stand up. I did really I did a lot of my tie and then some Brazilian jiu jitsu and just yeah I was really the thing is I I get really intense about my hobbies and I was so into it I was all in awesome and um I had worked a little bit as a journalist and I was like oh I should like do MMA reporting and I emailed this MMA website in Sweden I was like hey can I come right for you and they were like oh actually we're going to an event in Gothenburg tomorrow.

1:46:37Do you want to come? Yeah and I was like wow this is a lot it's like 11 p .m. at night but sure I'll come and I went there to their office I'd never really met them and I'm like this is kind of scary like I'm a 20 year old girl and going there and group of men with group of men and um they were so rude. They like I went there and I was like hey what's up and they were all kind of ignoring me and just like not looking at me or interacting with me until they realized that Simon was a girl because we don't leave talked of email and they're like oh the sky name Simon is gonna come and then they were like oh fuck Simon it's actually Simone.

1:47:17Yeah and it's a girl uh so I kind of like slid into that in a very very strange way and I did that for a year but then I got kicked out of an interview with Alex on the Gustavsson and I was like. Your pronunciation is so good. What did you say? And then I just kind of never went back and I was done with it and now I'm not allowed to do martial arts because of brain stuff so I've kind of put all of that behind me and it's interesting it's like I definitely see the athleticism in it and the skill that goes into it I think as the older I get the more concerned I am about the health impacts of the sport and of the people who are practicing it on an elite level and I'm just not as um cannot as um 100 % just cheer as somebody beats somebody else up into a pulp.

1:48:08Yeah especially considering the effects might have on the brain. Mm -hmm. May I ask why you got kicked out of the Gustavsson interview? Is anything fun? So embarrassing? What happened? No it wasn't I didn't it was not I didn't intend to get kicked out I didn't realize I was going to get kicked out so it was Alex on the Gustavsson was going to fight John Jones. Yeah. And he had just he was kind of like this golden boy in Sweden and he had just come out to the press that he had actually been to jail for violent crimes and all I wanted to ask all I asked was what was the reason that you wanted to bring that forward now?

1:48:51And apparently that was completely like blacklisted but I hadn't got in briefed about it at all and the um the PR man head up PR of the UFC was just yelling at me and they kicked me out of ground ground up hell in Stockholm and I immediately called my mom and I was like mom you will not believe what just happened I got kicked out of an interview at Grand Hotel because in the 90s she got kicked out of an interview with Mel Gibson from the Glamour Battle so that's like runs in the family so I was just like she's so yeah no it's just this weird generational skip where we both got and kicked out of interviews at the same hotel.

1:49:36You spent quite a bit of time in China as a student is that something you could speak to the differences and culturally maybe even from like a student in the engineering perspective between China and US maybe even Sweden those are like technologically speaking just such fundamentally different places. I mean I moved to China when I was 16 and I went there as an extreme student so that is before I had ever touched upon those things and it was and then I went back when I was 19 to work as an English teacher for a little bit it was it was incredibly challenging to be there. The language barrier the language the culture all of it I mean I was like now when I look at 16 year olds I'm like your baby and I moved sorry 10 to 16 year olds made of this but like I just can't believe I did that and yeah I didn't speak the language I got placed in like a small city with almost no foreigners it was just a constant audience of people staring at you because they haven't interacted with a lot of foreigners before and yeah I definitely and then after that I moved to Kenya and I think that was one of the reasons why it was so interesting to move to the States because people were like oh isn't it like hard with the language barrier or the cultural difference and I was like yeah this is nothing and I could speak the language like I could speak English well and I could kind of pass as an American even just as I moved here and it was such a relief where I was like wow I'm like an undercover foreigner because I got to a point where I realized like it doesn't matter how good my Mandarin is I'm never people are never gonna fully accept me here so yeah and you moved you want to Kenya you've spoken about this actually parents got divorced yeah when did I talk about that didn't really say to this story I know I know so many things what do you think this is is it from when I have my Amazon Echo install yeah yeah so I came home I came home from China first time I was there for a year it's one of the most turned upside down days of my life I spent a year there and I was so excited I had really rough year and I was so excited just to come home and like be a child again I remember thinking and just like feeling like I belonged and then I came home and I found out that my parents had separated when I was gone and they hadn't told me because they wanted to like not affect my stay there which I think was 100 % the right decision of them to make but I kind of came home to a house that was starting to get picked apart and it's a big shock to your world it was both yes and no I think I remember I just sat down on my bed and I was like well this isn't what I expected but I guess I'll move to Kenya because I was one of the few there were a few Swedish boarding schools in the world there was one in Brussels, Paris, London and then one in Nairobi and I didn't want to miss more school because I'd taken a gap year when I went to China so I was like I guess I'll go to Nairobi and I'm thinking now like I think if my parents had stayed together granted it was amazing that they they did made the right decision in every way but I my roots kind of never grew back after that and I think I just kept on moving abroad and moving around and being really restless and yeah and I've never been able to find a home spiritually.

1:53:20I have a home yeah I mean I have a home in the people around me and I have I have a lot of different homes you know it's I think what I'm realizing more and more is like you cannot live without consequence and compromise and sometimes I can envy people who have that like same friend group that they had their entire life or that you know just really belong in a place and I realized that would be amazing but I've chosen different experiences and one of the upsides of that is I can feel home almost anywhere one of the downsides of that is that I cannot feel fully at home anywhere. Oh this deeply and darkly poetic.

1:54:07Do you feel at home?

1:54:14Probably the way you put it is really beautifully put yeah no I have to find home and the people I love yeah.

1:54:29What advice would you give to young people that look at your stellar life that trajectory of your career as a human being as a creator as a engineer as a designer as a incredibly interesting personality that who's working on an autobiography. What advice would you give them like how how to make their way in this life maybe high school students maybe college students on how they can have a career they can be proud of or life they can be proud of. Oh my god looks.

1:55:09You know it's and this is not the advice but there are very few moments in a career that feel as good as you think they are going to and there are very few moments of feeling really proud of yourself. I guess I feel like I often just feel like I'm not doing it well enough or big enough or and now I just had one of those moments like hearing you say that when I'm like oh I'm actually doing okay.

1:55:37I think my main advice is enthusiasm is a much more potent fuel in life than duty and just because something is boring doesn't mean that it's important. I kind of realized for myself that like I'm so much better at the things I enjoy but school doesn't really teach us how to stay excited about something and how to stay enthusiastic about something and if you can find that then like you've got a goal mind of potential. So I kind of had to reprogram myself to be like just because this is fun doesn't mean that it's not important because I had so much guilt about it in this weird way or where I'm like no this is too fun this can't be work and I'm like no it's still work the boring stuff isn't more important.

1:56:29And the vice versa as you said just because it's boring and hard doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Yeah that's interesting. I wanted to take that advice and think through it because I'm my genetically I'm built a little bit like if this is really unpleasant it's probably good for me. Yeah. And it's a dangerous thing to think sometimes it's true sometimes it's not. Yeah. No one it's like what comes really easy and where do you have that kind of effortless momentum and enthusiasm and that is kind of the sweet spot. I think that I'm also really happy that I spent time trying out so many different jobs.

1:57:12I mean I had I've had so many different jobs before I did it and I would do things for a year and then I quit and it feels like I tried on a bunch of different pants and you're like okay I can kind of worry of this but they're not super comfortable or I don't love the look of them or whatever. And now I feel like I found this pair of pants that just like fits me perfectly and that perfectly caters to my strengths and my weaknesses. Like I used to work as an editor for the Swedish government and I remember thinking like oh I need to be okay that not a lot of things are happening and the things are moving slowly and that the work is kind of like monotonous and then I realized like or maybe I should be in a workplace where it's a benefit or strength that I want a lot of things to happen and that I can handle a high speed.

1:58:02Yeah. You know and I think that is really such a good question task as well. Like what are my strengths? What are my weaknesses and what context are most of these things strengths? And if you know that you know the measurements you can find the right fitting pants. Yeah or the right suit as Lex will tell you. What do you think is the meaning of life? I don't think there's any meaning. Is it meaningless void? No just that it doesn't have any meaning does it mean that it's meaningless. I don't think that there's this big grand meaning. I think a more important question is what brings you substantial joy in your life.

1:58:42To me it's the relationships with people that I have. Love? Yeah I mean love in all different kinds of form. It's I'm really working on figuring out how to build more community especially in a society that isn't really made for it. I want more passive hangouts with people or like I just want people who are there. Together? To get high? No together. To get high? Together? Yeah I mean I like I think seeing somebody for lunch and kind of shooting the shit and what's what's the latest with you is great but like what I want is somebody to just roll up and sweat pants and open my fridge and like be like what are you gonna do?

1:59:31I don't know maybe I'll read a book. Like yeah I think that. Sharing silence. Sharing silence being alone together and that just that type of community I think is what I'm really seeking out now because I think yeah and also like working on a goal on a joint goal together with other people. I think being a youtuber can be really lonely. I mean as much as I'm working with a team it's like yeah I just want to work in a bigger project and kind of have that sense of while we're like doing this together because I think that accesses my pride a lot better than just being proud of myself. It's so much easier for me to be proud of a team than for me to be proud of myself.

2:00:20That's probably good advice for people who are doing creative work on YouTube to work on a team. Yeah and just choose try to do things and take it from the queen of Shady robots but like try to do things with integrity, former queen of Shady robots. Do things with integrity like anything you do on the internet is kind of I think of things as tattoos on my internet and on my internet self and I'm really happy that I said no to some things early in my career that I know that I would have regretted now and you know just think of it in the long term. Like going viral is overwhelming and so stressful and so fun but like so intense and I'm really happy that I managed to build that into a more long term career then just have it be something that passed.

2:01:14And come down from the viral moment and maintaining your humanity. Yeah and also really deliberately defining what success means to you because there are so many reasons or so many definitions that other people will give you and especially when you're working on the internet there are just numbers upon numbers that are like you're doing well you're not doing well and something I'm really happy that I did was early on I really try to think of like what does success look like for me and I realized that it's not having the world's biggest YouTube channel it's being proud of the projects that I put out and having full say in how I spend my time like that is the most important thing to me and if I had a huge YouTube channel and I was making so much money but I kind of had this machine run me rather than the other way around like to me it's so important to be able to wake up in the morning and be like I don't want to do this anymore and for that to be okay and I think I defined that for myself early on and I've really tried to live by it and made decisions after that and I'm really happy that I did that.

2:02:29And also you're with the store with the design you're doing now you're putting a little bit of love in the products you create a scale I mean that's what Johnny I did that's the cool thing so you can create something beautiful and then people can share that love at scale. It's terrifying and beautiful and I'm so here for it. I'm here for it too. I'm a big fan I'm a big fan of who you are and big fan of everything you do of putting yourself out there putting your love out there in terms of the designs you create also just because I'm a fan of robotics I think you inspire a lot of people. I think the shitty robots are actually incredible robots and it's incredible engineering that's all that's that's the best combination of design engineering and fun all of it together so thank you for doing that here.

2:03:22I'm a big fan you're an inspiration and thank you for sitting down with me this is awesome thank you so much for having me. Thanks for listening to this conversation with Simone yet to support this podcast please check out our sponsors in the description and now let me leave you with some words from Kurt Vonnegut we have to continually be jumping off and developing our wings on the way down thank you for listening and hope to see you next time