#384 – Matthew McConaughey: Freedom, Truth, Family, Hardship, and Love

27:35It's a

27:39Challenge For me and I suppose it's like this for any Sun How much do we hang on to? And how much do we let go and evolve and update the OS and try maybe better or different? You know? It's that there's certain things that I know that I fully believe in. It's like when do we religious? When do we cast away our father? You know, when do we say, no, I'm going after the dream. I'm not asking your permission.

28:22I, I, I, I I question that from time to time for myself because I and it almost feels Blasphemic if that's a word sometimes I feel like What are you doing? You can't check that and go like well. No, I'm not sure if I want to be there And then I immediately kind of let myself off because I believe where he is he's going one. Go, but you're free, man. Yeah. I'm not going to hold you back if you misread that or I didn't teach you that as well as maybe I wish I could have. Go. You're free. You're not going to lose. Trust that you're not going to lose. It's in your DNA. It's in your lineage, young man.

29:06Still, it's scary to not have a safety nut. Losing your father is scary in that That way, you realize this world is just you and some deep fundamental way. It's just you. Yeah. You're alone. Yes.

29:24But I mean, also not having that. It's such a gift of deliverance, though, as well. Because that's a, I think it's an, I mean, it's an awesome feeling to know, to know we're alone, to know we don't have that, to know you don't have take to, or take three, that it's one take. I mean, the peripheral vision improves. You know, the link and understanding with our past improves, because I know for me, I was not ever considered of my past at all, because that had that. If I needed it, he was my well for that. Well, he's gone. You know, except he had the literary had, they have our back. Well, then when they long have our back, I'm going, oh, maybe I need to look back and start kimming some credit to how I got here.

30:30What I'm doing and where I'm heading, it gave me the first time courage to even look over my shoulder. Because again, I didn't have to because I don't have to look. Dad's got my back. No, dad's gone from this life. He doesn't have your back.

30:50Okay. So, I mean, I don't know, maybe in it, because it's inevitable, I very quickly go to, in the pain, the loss, and yes, even loneliness, which is different from being alone and loss. Pretty immediately part and parcel with the pain I felt it. In the pain you saw the gift, the red light of losing your father. Pretty immediately less impressed more involved. I came like a couple weeks after moving on. Is there a trick to that to see gift in the pain. That's a good question. Is there a trick to it? Not that I know of. I mean, I don't, I have to, I have to catch myself from trying to intellectualize my way into the reasoning and not skip over real feelings and discomfort.

32:07I mean, I did get that from my mom and I have to watch it that so resilient that we just dust herself off and get up and go. You want to sit in the feeling, you want to feel it, you want to deeply feel the pain. I want to deeply feel it, I want to look at the eye and deeply feel it, but I don't want to wallow in it.

32:27Now I was raised where you skipped the deeply feel and let's go. I've said it before, but that will lead to having turn into a person who is a repeat offender of the same crimes because you just get up and you don't you don't have a winter in your life. You know what I mean? You don't have you there's no introspective time. You don't look over your shoulder in the end of the past. So you just get up and you're like, all right, I've stepped in the same pile of whatever a hundred times and I'm fine. I'll do it a hundred first. It doesn't It's not hard. Hell, it's good luck. Well, hang on a minute, maybe we want to stop and go, what can I learn from that?

33:08But it, it, it, it, I don't know of a trick. I think that I think that I think, I feel there's any trick I would say, it's just how quickly can we admit the inevitable? That's what I'm talking about in the book about. Like, once you know it's inevitable, how do we get relative? not skip it, not throw it to the side, not deny it, which I'd love to talk about that here sometimes too, but the value of denial sometimes. The value of denial. Yeah. But how quickly do we want something's inevitable, go, okay, any mind and heart time I'm spending about going, no, I can't believe that happened. but no, did that really happen?

33:57Anytime we spend it trying to deny that what it's already happened, that seems to me to be, I'm not sure the value of that time. So if any, there's any trick I would say, once you know something's inevitable, even though how painful it is or how awesome it is, start getting relative with that. And in the relativity is seeing, there's a gift here. And if I realize that gift, I'm honoring. Now I'm on to building up the beautiful passage of my father leaving this life. Now I'm on the march to go. Yes, let's let the legacy, let this become omnipresent, let him live through me, let me become more him.

34:38It's transformed. Yeah. So what value is there then to denial? Any? Oh, I think divided. if you really commit to it.

34:53I get this from my mother. It's a very pragmatic value. Come into the denial. Okay. And my mom does it to an extent that I'm like, mom, do you have any consideration or context of situations and she does. This is the thing every time I go she's not a shallow woman. But if it is not, if it is something, if it is something happens in her life, that is keeping her from going where she wants to go or having a joy in her life that she does, She was straight ass denied, it didn't happen. No, it did, mom. We're right here, I heard you, what you said. Not it, you heard something else, mom. Now, she gets a mammoth scan that she's 91, hell yeah, she gets some amnesty on that.

36:03But she's not, yeah, does she repeat a friend? And yeah, but it's misdemeanors. You know what I mean? I mean, it's like we all, it's part of that thing when you got a family and you're like, yeah, that's just what they do. Just go with it. You know, and it's ingenious in a way. It's a tool. She does. I think it is more of a trick with her, but she wouldn't, so grand there, it's not a trick. It just, do it. Done. And I, another reason I bring this up, it's outside of just my mother is,

36:39I did this road trip course in this art of living event a few weeks ago. Out of hundreds of thousands of chats that came in and responses that came in afterwards, it seemed to me that about 80 % of people's challenges and problems even in their life were something in the past that they were hung up on, that they could not seem to get past, and it was holding them from going where they wanted to in their future. And so I thought that was revealing. I would have thought that was, I don't know, going in 40%, it seemed to be 80%. And then I thought about, okay, if you're here in the live show and you want to get the course into some sort of therapy or education or development or stuff out, but whatever.

37:43And I have a lot of friends and I know a lot of people that earn weekly and daily therapy. And then I know there's a lot of people that are on prescriptions, drugs. And while a therapy and the right prescription to the right person for the right diagnosis is necessary, I'm questioning, is there a value to going, if you're not getting past this today, this week, this month, this year, or almost in a decade, because when you're still hung up and you can't get rid of that thing and your memory where you, And it's got you paralyzed and you're a victim of it. Is there, and you're doing the therapy and you're doing the work and you're taking a prescription if that's what you're saying.

38:34Where does there, is there a value in going? If it's holding you back from going where you wanna go, maybe you should just deny the fucking thing ever, fucking happen. Kick it in the head, kick it off the curb. I'm done with you. I'm sick of you. I'm tired of hanging out with you. I'm tired of that thing, whatever it is, is holding me back from going where I want to go. So if I can't wax the car, you know, and get past this thing, kick it. That's so powerful. So one thing to do, like with the loss of your father, is to try to transform it, so you discover the gift in it, the gift in the pain. But if you can't keep looking, keep looking, you can't find the gift in the pain.

39:17Just deny it ever happened. You could call that a trick. But I think it's more than a trick because let me say this My mom after my father died went on and found a second love of her life

39:35For seven nineteen years they were together CJ Carling love you buddy. He's moved on now

39:45Did she check with us a little bit? Like is this okay? She gave us a little lingering half a second look that we knew that maybe she was asking and we came to her and was like, yes, it's okay. And you know who else is saying it's okay? Who's dancing up there for you? Dad.

40:07So was that her denying? At the man she was divorced from twice a mere two three times and had three children with had moved on? No, but she didn't say I'm not you know well what's the book on how long I'm supposed to say single before I can be interested in other you know there's not a book on these things How do you feel? Is loving is loving CJ mean you love dad less? No. Is finding a new life and a new dance partner in this life? Is CJ mean that dad wasn't your dance partner? The dad wasn't the love of your life?

40:57No. Oh.

41:02So I don't know, I mean, in there, maybe, you know, maybe there's another where I think it's denial, but it's not really denial, because it's not like it didn't happen. That's an earlier example I was giving my mom, she will absolutely go, that light's not on, mom, the light's on, that light's not on, if I say it's not on, sometimes she's just like, that makes no sense. She would just absolutely denying what just happened. We even haven't recorded, and she'll go, well, the recording's fine. Yeah, I mean, that's part of a coping deal with her, but I mean, what I think is more important and more valuable is to talk about this.

41:33She didn't deny my dad. Diane, I didn't, but she sure as hell turned a page and said, I can still start a whole new category, a new life, a new love, let my heart love and be loved by someone living in this life today that I'm still living in and that will not trespass on my love for my husband, your father, Jimicana. And I think, I mean, we were just thought that was beautiful. Yes, mom, go. Talk about green light, go. Now if we're hung up going, can't have one of the, can't have them both. God have one or the other. Now we start to make a contradiction of the two ideas again, which don't, our contradictions get us in trouble all the time, man.

42:30That's life though, the contradictions, right? But isn't life if we just admit the contradictions or so much don't they become a paradox? We just admit that that's part of it. If contradictions are inevitable, they, hencefully, they do become a paradox, don't they? Then we're in the honey hole. Then we're sinking in dancing and have leniency with herself, while still holding our self -detask. And it's, I think it's holding on to no each contradiction. Oh, here it is again. So it's a one -off. It lives on its own separate from the last one. No, it doesn't. They're connected. That's why they are a paradox.

43:14And then that's I think that's a much, I think that's where life really is. In the paradox. Yes. In the dance of it. I think the metaphor of red yellow green lights is just so simple and so powerful. You write about some green lights being engineered and some being mystical. Which I love the difference of that. What's the difference of the engineered green lights and the mystical, such a cool word, mystical. Yeah. Well, the engineered ones have reason and the misguid ones have rhyme. Yeah. You know, life's a mystery going forward, but it's a science looking back. I prepared, I've had ideas, written headlines, and we had goals, and just, you know, athlete gets in shape for an event.

44:03I mean, I get in shape for a role. I read, study, I work, I prepare, and I go, and I'm prepared, and I behave, and I do it. And I look at and I go, yes, that's what I wanted to do. It's engineered, green light.

44:24It's a conscious delayed gratification. It's that if I do it today, that pragmatic head down, believe the no cloud out there, but then I trust that there is one out there. If I keep my head down to do it, I'll get that to that dream. We can engineer those, habit, work ethic, prep, expertise, education. And the mystical ones though, don't make any sense. They're not supposed to make sense. They only make sense after, right when they happen, and you backlog and you connect the dots with how they got there, that red light. You went into that, made you 30 seconds later to get to the restaurant. As you walked in, she walked out.

45:15And you went, good morning. And she went, good morning.

45:22And too much later your date and two years later you're married. You have that kind of family and now you're sitting here for what years later going. I love you. Look at what we built. And you go back and go.

45:42What if I wouldn't hit that red light? Those 30 seconds. You know? Made all the difference. And so strange that this life is this way. Yeah. And that's just rhyme. I mean, we can't really add that up. Yeah. Yeah. It's a sign when you look back, you see why it was that you were upset and ticked off that you had to pick up the kids' toys before you left and they were supposed to pick them up. And therefore you were late for the thing that made you run into and you ran into the person that was walking in the office that the guy that you did, the interview, that's the guy you were looking for, the job you wanted and you caught him because you were in the elevator with him.

46:20And that 90 seconds on that elevator, it's what got you that job that led you doing what You wouldn't do. I mean, the significance is there, but we have to, I think what we also got to watch is, again, in that balance, what are we chasing? Because if you just chase the engineering, we mismatch it. If we just chase the mystical, we find ourselves caught up in trying to give meaning to that Lego set that was on the floor, that the kids didn't pick up, and what color was it? And why did I walk out that door and almost step on the Legos. But if I'd gone out the other drawer, I usually go out of, I would've gone there, I would've got there early and wouldn't run into the boss and the, so you can start to give too much meaning on that as well.

47:06I think we can give significance in too many places and all of a sudden I think we've all been there where you're seeing art in every single thing. I mean, I can be paralyzing. So like it's hard to leave a room if everything's significant. Or if everything's a sign. How much of success in life do you think is engineered and how much is mystical? And how much is different from person to person? For me personally, maybe I enjoy it, maybe I'm genetic and built that way, but I exist more in the mystical. So I don't make plans. I travel the last summer in Ukraine with no plan. I just went there. No plan.

47:50I didn't know how I'm going to meet the president of the country. I didn't know anybody. And so there's no plan. There's no clear thing. You're just roaming around. And that's how I've existed in life. And there's something about giving yourself over to the flow of nature that I just enjoy. It makes life so much fun. It's awesome when you can do it. Did you engineer, though? I'm going to put myself in the place when you got on the plane to go to the destination. That was an engineered choice. Yes, with the individual. And maybe I'll meet and I'll run into and I can work up a sit down with. So the engineer choice was putting your shoes on perverably.

48:37I always say this to the hardest part about going to the gyms, putting your shoes on. So getting on the plane that was an engineer thought with the goal of mind, but I don't know how I'm going to do it. The choice. Yeah. Putting the shoes on. Yeah. But there's not a clear, it's a fog. What happens after the shoes go on? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to take that leap. So I wonder how much for people who are successful in this world and finding what makes them I'm truly happy and fulfilled how much of it is engineered, how much is it mystical? How much was it for you?

49:16Well, I'll say this, like when I went to write about Greenlight which is basically the last 40 years of my life, I thought that 85 -90 % of my successes were going to be obviously engineered. Or I could see the signs, it's all the habits. Here's what I did. Yep, that out up. Got the solution. and got the conclusion. I was very surprised when I noticed it was probably less than 50%. And that most of the real success of my life when I trusted the mis, the one I trusted that I didn't have to define it, that I only trusted that I didn't have to go, what's the measurement? What's the score? What lead, what, this leads to what?

50:05What's next?

50:12And I, for me, that's still a challenge for me daily. Now it's a trust and not because I can be, I think I can be overly practical. And I think I can overcommitate and miss out on magic because I'm still going, wait, are we giving enough, are we giving enough the measure and credit to actuality? Are we, are we giving enough credit to this, these are the steps to take and this is reality. I think I'm reminded when I when I trust because that going to the mystic just to put yourself on the plane is the engineer but getting there and as you say you say you roll in that mystical it takes a lot of trust.

51:11Yeah trust in the inevitable amen on that to but not knowing where it actually ends you up. It's a feeling more than, I don't think it's a clear vision. It's kind of like a feeling that guides you towards a place with without a clear name, without clear characteristics. It just kind of pulls you there. Where do you get that curves and trust to go with your gut, your feeling? And is there, for instance, three days later you sit down, is there, if you didn't, if that doesn't happen? Is there a sense, a week, two weeks later, now when you come back to America that like, Ah, I failed.

52:11Sort of looking back to try to analyze what went right, what went wrong, that kind of thing. Yeah, that engine is always there, but I think what pulls me forward in life, what makes me really grateful and fulfilled is noticing the thing you mentioned, noticing the magic and kind of going towards it. Sort of just sitting back. both in tragedy and then triumph. So in war there's a lot of tragedy. But there's somehow one of the things you see in war, this is the first war of experience and seeing the front, is the loss that people lose their homes and all this kind of stuff. The thing that rises from that is the love for each other.

52:59So the people I've spoken with don't give a damn about the home, Don't give a damn about the on farms and animals they lost don't don't give a damn about Having to move and all this kind of stuff as long as the family's still there as long as the people they love is still there and they're like That's the there's a melancholy smile they have on their face Like yeah, this world is full bullshit is full of tragedy But life is fucking awesome and that and you just noticed that in in little in little ways everywhere where you just sit back and yeah, notice the magic. And I want more of that. You just kind of follow along like a little ant.

53:41Yeah. Keep noticing that kind of thing. But I don't know, I hope, you know what I think it is is other people notice the year the kind of person that notices it. And they're like, I wanna hang out with that person. He seems all right. Like he seems one of the good ones. One of the good ants. Do you have any certain non -negotiable structure before that freedom to go with the feeling? I think so. There's so set of principles. I'm just basically integrity of being good to other people. like whatever that means for me there's specific things like I am really into loyalty above the law right there's kind of like there's a circle of friends I have and that that means everything there's just a basic deep kindness towards others empathy empathy towards people that others might label as even evil.

54:54I have that kind of empathy. I believe all of us have the capacity to do good and evil. And so I just kind of see everybody as little babies that grow up in different conditions and some do evil, some do good. And then yeah, there's all kinds of other principles. I love the dynamic between the different humans in their full diversity. I love the dynamic between the masculine, the feminine, and enjoy it. The dance of it. Yeah. So you have a constitution with which you embark. You do too. And chasing. Yes. I hope so.

55:38And then for you, for me, I'd like to, it's inspiring to hear something like yourself go, I go, and I just land and I just go, I'm going to Feel it. I can go back and go, yeah, my greatest truths I've crossed, my greatest success in my life or when I Trusted that and go I took a one -way ticket Amazon Africa. Yeah, and those were spiritual And very pragmatic because they led to Dealing with with with succeeding in other ways that are more pragmatic, 100 % and get much more meaning to those things. But that's to be able to go out and say that's how you do your family. I really want to get married and have kids, but I'm not married and don't have kids yet.

56:33Okay. So actually one of the nice things about that is you can take bigger risks. Yes. So while I'm not married and don't have kids, I feel I owe it to myself to take just to go go to the Amazon. That is. I'll go to that backpack on and one way to get it. Yeah, because that does get harder to do. Um, I missed that. Um, sometimes the, the The whim a song that comes on you know Yeah, where's that guy from oh They're from the place that I want to go that dream. I'll go there when we dig it. What I got to do? I'll get a couple of shot. Okay go that that There's that that that was that was fun. I do that.

57:25Let's get up and go you're free Yeah, and go when you back when I when I get there. It's a beautiful, beautiful thing. Maybe never. Yeah. Yeah. As you become to visit me in this new place, maybe. Yeah. How did the Amazon, how did the trip there change you? What do you remember of it? Such a magical place.

57:57I stripped a lot of my past, symbols and talismans while I was there. What I remember getting there and just having so much adrenaline on the anticipation, anticipation of getting to the Amazon. In the first 10 days, I wasn't really enjoying the trip. I was just charging to get to the destination, to get to the banks at the river that I had a dream about. And then it just humbled me. I got so fatigued on night, whatever 12, and was so sick and tired of the internal dialogue I was having with me. myself. I was not enjoying my company. That, you know, I purged. And I remember, and stripped off identity markers that I'd sort of been hanging on to for like everything from, you know, What it means to be an American.

59:16My dad's ring, him from a conaheim, meltdown of my mom and dad's clasherings from University Kentucky where gold from her teeth and his clashering melt the down. You know, taking that off was really hard to go. I'm casting. Am I casting out my father? Now, I wasn't casting him out. I was just removing to say I don't have to rely on that being all of my identity. So to pull that off to to to strip down and just to where I was just a mammal

59:53That next morning I Was light I got present I remember writing writing something down It's like all that I want is what I can see and what I can see is in front of me That sense of not I wasn't leaning around looking around every corner to get there. And as soon as that hit me, you'd talk about mystical successes and realities and truth. As soon as that hit me, and for the first time in 12 days, I didn't care about getting there or what was around the corner. I guess what was around the next game corner. Damn, it was on. I mean, not around a few corners. The next corner, there it was. And that was just like a two -shay.

1:00:38You know, those times when the prime move over the universe, God, what we wanna name or believe in says, ding, there you go. And that form of detachment from holding on for dear life to things in past, so hard that's not letting beauty that's right in front of you, to feel correctly and follow our intuition to have those, not cast them out. I didn't burn them. I didn't get rid of those things. I just took them off and had to recognize you're still here. You are you. You're much more, that is a talisman. That's a symbol that means something to you and that's good. Don't cast out the meaning. But it's not like when the rings off and the hats off and the crucifixes off your neck that you're like, You're going to die and I know those are reminders.

1:01:41Hang on to what they mean for you as we go forward. But as we go forward, we're worried about it so much about you. Again, I was looking at the proverbial dream, the cloud so much that I was tripping over myself to get there. And like clockwork, just amazing grace. Boom. as soon as it hit me and I was like, ah, that's it. All I want is what I can see and all I can see is in front of me. Literally looking down at the ground at what was a sea of 10 ,000 wild neon blue Amazonian butterflies on the ground. As soon as they fluttered up, my head came up with them. I took a few more steps and there's the Amazon.

1:02:31That's what you came over here for. Oh, howdy. Those kind of that truth like that. Well, the Amazon is interesting too because it really has no past or future losing the moment because of how fast it turns. It just eats up life. If a thing dies, it just gets swallowed up because of the humidity, because of all that, because there's so many living creatures that kind of eat each other, live on each other, so it really exists in the moment and all this kind of diversity of life there. It's such an interesting place. Talk about food chain. Yeah, you're just part of it there. Yeah. We, we human somehow escaped that food chain, but we're still, the roots are still there.

1:03:15Oh, yeah, I think we're a bit arrogant to think we've escaped. Yeah. You think I'm being romantic in that, in that, in that notion? Well, sometimes when you're in a big city, when you're in Austin, Texas and L .A., you can think like, oh, there's one car, when the house, we're safe, but somehow, somehow, somehow is nature still a part of us. Our roots are still a part of us. I think it is more than we realize, more than we give a credit for. I actually believe that we are, there's a really arrogant notion to think that we are separate, meaning people talk about pollution on a larger scale, that the climate would have you.

1:04:08I think Earth's going to be just fine. Yeah, we may be not be here for it, but I think we have a bit of arrogance sometimes to think that we Can Trump mother nature? I think we have more more of the natural law in us And I sure hope so if I'm wrong Well, there's an interesting I've recently been There's a guy named Max Tagmark at MIT who really wears a new clear war and he was part of constructing a simulation of what happens when a nuclear war happens. And it's interesting to see that some very large percentage of humans on earth starve to death because they don't die first from the explosion, they die from starvation because basically dust covers the entire North America and entirety of Europe.

1:05:03And so the crops all die, all the food sources all die and people suffocate and starve to death. But you know, the lesson you learn from that over a period of a few months, even though most of the human population of Earth dies, Earth finds away, life finds away. To adapt. It's going to be just fine. In terms of the big living ecosystem that is life on Earth. And yeah, it's humbling to think about, well, maybe we're just the stepping stone. Same thing with talk offline about artificial intelligence. Maybe humans are just the stepping stone to the development of these other super intelligent entities.

1:05:47Yeah. Yeah. And is it unconsciously in our nature that that's just part of the evolution and adaptation of our species and we'll because we're going to we were talking about earlier what AI becomes is completely 100 % based on who we are and we get to see it for some time a mirror to ourselves okay this is what human civilization is like these AI systems large language models are trained done human communication and you get to ask questions and you get to have conversations with it and you get to realize, wow, this is what the collective intelligence of the human species are collective wisdom and knowledge.

1:06:42That's what it looks like. All the bias, the hate, the paradoxes, all that is in there. The contradictions. You can even convince those models. You can tell them they're lying and they're going to start changing their mind. It's interesting to play with them. It's also interesting to consider that maybe they become smarter than us and become almost life forms that live among us and maybe one day kind of emerge with them. There's all kinds of possible trajectories that we take here. How much of that excites you how much of it scares you? Is it possible to exist in a place where it is both exciting and scary, but to exist in that dance?

1:07:32Mostly I'm really excited because I see human beings as deeply lonely. Like there's a deep loneliness at all. It's that's how we see connection. That's why we see connection others. That's why I love it. So beautiful. We find other people we were connected with. And I just think AI can add to that. You can add friends that you can have great conversations with. And then some of those friends would be AI systems. They'll call you out in your bullshit in the most fascinating and interesting of ways. And challenge you and help you explore ideas together. So I'm excited by that. Is that different?

1:08:18And if so, how from the internet and Facebook's and these groups and communities that were, I think it's fair to say, set out to say this all access of information to people will help us find more common denominators than divisive ones. Is it, do you see it in a similar? Yeah, it's similar but further into that direction. I think the internet has done an amazing thing and connecting us and expanding our minds and helping us find community That feels like our community and then the communities that are totally different than you learn from them. I mean Wikipedia alone on my favorite websites My too.

1:09:05Oh opens your mind to all kinds of cool stuff. Yeah, it does and Not doing it. Yes, I'm a sister to be more. No. And so I think AI just makes that even easier because we'll compete. You have to like read and have to do a lot of work with an AI system like a large language model. It can just shoot the shit. It's more like drinking a beer versus like doing homework. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's already happening. What do you think about that becoming the new family? to where you know you said you know Mary, you don't have kids could you see a future for yourself or do you have a relationship with a eye and that is your family.

1:09:51And that's the main, that's the primary, like even romantic relationship. Yeah. I can see it, that one worries me. I like to keep it at friends, right? I think I'm not ready to commit to the romantic. I wonder how much nut know that takes us back to the Amazon in nature. How much we still need the human touch and whatever magic there is between two humans, which takes the leap into the romantic versus just the intimacy of a good friendship. I don't know. So correct for wrong, you see AI is having a deep and meaningful friendship. Yes. And hopefully it will be a friend that will help you evolve and be able to love even more and be loved.

1:10:46And you can take that into humanity and find another home of sapien. Yes. Peo, yes. And thank you, AI, my great friend, for opening me up to this beauty that I have myself. I can see in you my fellow human. And let's come together and biologically create family if we want to. And let's all remain friends with my friend and make your own friends with my friends friends on AI. And let's have these great neighbor. to a good friend, a great friend that's a neighbor. Yeah, okay. Mentor and friend. Just like, now there's AI systems that play chess far, far, far better than humans, and we humans still play chess with each other.

1:11:32Or the chess is still a game that's fun for us humans. Right. And then we use the AI systems to get better at chess to learn, to train, to discover new ideas, but ultimately return to the chess board between two humans. But of course, this world is full of dangerous people. So those same AI systems can be used to harm, to create false narratives, to do social engineering and manipulate the masses in terms of what they believe and all that kind of stuff. That's scary. Yeah. Well, and I get it when we, and I have my own fear and distrust as of AI is based on my own fear and distrust of myself and others.

1:12:24There's something, it's so very simple, but I think it's a really done sort of way to just set up this reality. out of here and it's kind of a duh, but still needs to be said that AI is a prompt. It doesn't do anything unless we ask it. So what questions? Are we gonna ask? Is what we need to ask ourselves? Cause we're going to be looking in the mirror at our digital God that we create from ourselves. And just to know that that's that place where it's awesome and scary exciting. In scary we go, oh, it's it's it's our creation. Which is awesome. At the same time, oh shit. But it's it's prompted by our questions and gives us patterns from that which we give it.

1:13:25But that prompting, that's the art of life. We prompt each other in conversation. Our loved ones, when you go out, you're dead today. The next word you say, the next word you say to me, the question I ask of you, that's prompting. And it can change everything. I can say so many things right now that will completely just the set of possibilities Where both of our lives can take given on the selection of words I use and you use It is crazy. It makes conversation fun. Yeah, and then same thing with AI Except the nice thing about AI is tireless tireless Right Let me ask you this. You can falsely condemn me right now, and I prove you falsely condemn me.

1:14:22I can forgive you. And we can march forward stronger than before. In AI's tirelessness and retention.

1:14:35Can it forgive? I mean, can it, can it, can it go? Oh, okay. Yep. Sorry about that one. That was wrong. Can it amend? Yes. Yeah, you could prompt it to ask for forgiveness and he'll forgive you. Well, like when I talk it around with it, and you ask, what should I be afraid of you or is it the Doomsdory? The... It's Angela was always well, it's up to you. She was awesome, right? Yeah. Again, it's up to us. And it brought up, you know, make me synonymous with your human values and ethics and responsibilities. But it doesn't deal with, I didn't find anyway, deal with defining or making choices on its own of what those are.

1:15:23Yeah, I think some of that is manually those constraints put on by it, by the creators of those large language models, basically not letting the systems have an identity of their own. And some of it is just not engineered in yet, but I believe that we'll have systems that have an identity, have a belief, have a set of opinions that carry through time. And will we go to them like certain states where we agree with the law and disagree with the law or nations? And I'm a member of this AI. Oh, you're from this AI tribe. You all believe this? Yes. Yeah, there will be an anarchist set of AIs, there will be the communists, there will be the Nazis, there will be the Democrats and the Republicans, there will be the people who are in the keto diet and the people that are in this other kind of diet, this other kind of lifestyle, just like we have now, there's little groups and there will be AI systems, they're going to be supercharged.

1:16:32Yeah, they'll be either the leaders of the foundation on which we build the those groups and they'll be it'll be The possibility of all the fun we can have is endless of course the dangers always Rise up there because I mentioned the Nazis. I mentioned them all the dangerous ideas as the The set of ideas that humans have come up with a lot of them are awesome most of them are awesome I would say, but some of them are dangers. The reason they're dangers is because they become viral. There's something exciting in us about those ideas, but they also harm others a lot. This is who we are, humans, we're capable of envy and all the dark stuff of hate and all this.

1:17:21Capable? Yes. We also choose it. Do you think most people are good? Yes. But I also believe we got the good evil and all of us in which we're worth we've eaten. You asked people to draw distinction, to describe where are you acting and where are you being?

1:17:57What's the difference? What's the difference between being fake? I mean, I use that word and being real. Okay. Yeah, and the word authentic gets thrown around a lot. And, you know, I don't mean... I used to think, I used to be a pillow this way, but Bob Dylan loosened me up on this idea a little bit. You think it was all about get to be the your only one and only true self? That's it. Everything else is fake. And then your Bob go, well, I mean, we are, well, we create ourselves to be. We are our own creations. Which I'm like, oh, yes, yes, we are. Thank you, Bob.

1:18:45What?

1:18:50I'm all from bullshittards and bullshitting. I'm not as big of a fan of the liars and lying. What's the distinction? You talk about the art form of bullshit. A liar's fake, a liar's faking it, but not admitting to themselves that, yeah. Oh yeah, it's a fucking creation. I'm faking it. A liar, I'm lying to your face right now and I don't give you that hair of a wink out of my right out that lets you know, hey, go with me here. Yeah. I think it value in the bullshitting. Yeah. Now, the lying becomes troublesome because one, I've duped you and I didn't let you know, come on, I was just telling the story about catching the fish.

1:19:32Fish always gets bigger, every year you tell a story, come on, go it. But the lying, all of a sudden, I don't know my own. I don't know when I'm emanating something, creating something, telling the truth, being authentic or lying. And I'm, shit, all of a sudden I'm leaving crumbs with myself, that constitution gets blurry, aligned to yourself and to others. Yeah, when you start to lie to yourself, you don't even know it. And that, I believe, is dangerous territory. That's why I'm trying to push this admit because that goes, I'm trying to come in at a kindergarten level because we immediately jump to, well, I'm gonna judge that.

1:20:17Boom, that's bad, that's wrong. No, no, no, no. Hold back on that. Let's go back to base level. Let's just admit that we all fucking do it. Lies we tell others, lies we tell ourselves lies we believe for convenience sake. I do it. I'm guilty of it. I try to catch myself on it. If I can just call it and go, you know, you're believing that lie out of convenience. I'm like, I know. And I don't have to see if I'm saying that in the mirror, writing it down or sharing with a friend, you know, and I go, okay, well now I've inherently become a bullshitter then, because I admitted it. That I can shake hands with.

1:20:56That's the little slight wink to ourself and someone else could go, come on, it's a better story this way. In the chorus road trip, you start with step one. I admit, how do you do that? How do you, How do you kind of step back and do that inventory? Yeah.

1:21:21Is there a trick to that? Oh, if there's a trick to it, I think it's just a bad courage of having the because it's I don't think any of us like to admit our lives or look deep enough in the go. So I've relied so much on that lie that it's become my reality. And I don't want to be so pure tanical, as to say, again, that's why I say, did it instead of judge, but I don't want to be so pure tanical as to go and admit it and get rid of it. No, just saying you admit it. just bring it to the surface. Yeah, I'm saying this and I'm doing something different. I preach this, but I actually my actions just admit it.

1:22:24Just just admit though, just admit them. And And I think that's the first step to where we begin to either forgive herself and give herself some amnesty and go, yeah, I'm a human. Trying to make it through life's best I can. I'm going to let myself slide on that one. Okay. And maybe I'm getting away with it for so long. Whole family, my whole network works well on it. Okay. Forget this. Get to the base of the truth of the matter. Let me just admit it. And then where we'll, and then it will also help, it'll be easier to then expose to ourselves, which ones we go, no, I'm not letting myself slide on that anymore.

1:23:05That is actually a lie I've been believing that's been keeping me from getting more of what I want in life. That's actually a lie I've been living that I haven't admitted that. It's not allowing me to enjoy life as much as I damn well should be. Deserve to be or I've earned to be or just sort of let myself. I mean, I had on it. It's not all the hard stuff. Sometimes it can be a fun thing. I'll talk about how many times we major in our minors. Let's admit where we sit there and we go, all right, I give myself 12 -hour workday, but But I noticed I'm spending eight on my hobbies and four on my career.

1:23:48On majoring in my minors. Huh, let me admit that. There's the math. Why don't we invert that? How about four hours on my hobbies and eight on my career? First talk, just admitting it allows me to go and do the math or rearrange the math by time of day. But I just found a hobby tennis. First time I've had it in 25 years. I had to admit that I went to play tennis for the start of love it for the first month. I saw a film guilty. I was like, is it okay to have this much fun? I'm having so much fun, and I'm getting a great workout. And I was like, yes, it's okay. Congratulations, but you found something that you're finding quite pleasurable for straight pleasure.

1:24:38You don't have to forget all this other stuff that's yeah, but it's also getting a workout. We ain't getting that too, but don't just you don't have to get skews the pleasure based on oh, but it's good for you. Now, you're damn it. Real reason you love it's because you're having so much damn fun at it. I admit that to let myself go. Damn, right? I'm going to play tennis again today or tomorrow. It was a simple fun thing. So it's not always about the hard core stuff that we have to go. This is a deep dark lie that I've been living by and it's having me live falsely and it's having harmful consequences on my loved ones.

1:25:16Some of those will probably arise when we admit. I'm just having a look around and it's just saying. And when we admit it, then we go, when we admit a lie, then we become something much more valuable. A bullshare. Yeah. Yeah, a little winking here. I love the distinction. I'm bullshitting myself on that thing. Yep. I'm lying. Therefore, if I call on a line, I'm in a line. Yep. Well, now, yep. I'm bullshitting. Eat. Now she's out. Didn't judge it. But now I'm bullshitting. That I think we can work with. Well, you're an interesting case study because you're one of the most famous, one of the most charismatic, successful humans in the world.

1:25:59There's a lot of millions of people love you. Hang on, every one of your words. That's a hard place to be. How do you call yourself? How do you admit that you've been living a lie? How do you admit yourself in big ways and small ways, on lies, at this point, given how many people love you, how famous you are?

1:26:2610 years ago. I don't know.

1:26:32I don't know, I was, I was, someone was talking about like, yeah, they really admired this so and so person, because they're not so many who looks in the mirror. And I was like, yeah. And all of a sudden I was like, man, I gotta catch myself looking in the mirror a lot.

1:26:51And then I go in and I, Yeah, look at my wife's side of her bathroom. How many different creams and stuff she has out there? Look at my side. I got a lot more of my side. I'm like, oh, I notice how if I'm out and the other look working out, maybe doing push -ups. Maybe I do a few more. If there's a group of people walking by that maybe I'd like to impress. Then I'd do a few more than I do if I was on my own. I'm like, you are vain, McConaughey. Yeah. And the knee jerk is, oh vanity bad. And I was like, also now became a bullshitter once I admitted in vain. I was like, well bravo vanity. Yeah. Let's go vanity.

1:27:37Let's instead of putting it in the cupboard in the lie section, oh, no, no, no, no, no, vain. Cause that's a debit. No, admit it. And then go, what's the value in it? Well, I can look at it. Yeah, I'm actually gotten better shape because of my vanity. Actually, I eat better. And it is, it looks better. And I have more in the gym. You know, I've, in that lead to, you know, better husband, better dad, doing something with my kids when I'd rather be over there writing this work I'm working on, but I know that tomorrow, there's only when they leave town. They're going to remember this time that we had together.

1:28:18That's a selfish act to go spend that time with my kids, or even though I'd rather not be doing it at that time or I'd be doing something for myself. Because when they leave tomorrow, they'll have this great memory that they spent with their dad right away. They went, I could call that vanity. I could group that and say, that was very vain of you. I was for self. Yeah. Yeah, because it was also for someone that I cared about. Other people in your life that call you on your bullshit in the bad sense of the word bullshit. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes, I got a pretty thick threshold for how far I can go with my bullshit.

1:29:03Like what, bruises, what tickles me, my bruises others to watch it. That's a good line. Yeah. Um. It tickles me, my bruise others. But I also go back and talk about the bullshit. That's over there with those mystical successes. It's the yeah, no, no, go with it. Don't pull a parachute yet. Let's see how far we can go. Let's see how hot it can get. Let's try it one more time. Yeah. Yes, two more please.

1:29:42That's where a lot of great pleasure and stories and successes will come from. Those are mystical. They don't add up. It's like, we're not talking about reason right now. We're not talking logic. Just go with this. Let's talk about the virtual and making it real. The old line of fake it till you make it. I mean, what is that? There's something to that. There's definitely something to it. But I would, you know, where people will go fake it as I would go back to Dylan's or create it, recreate it, recreate it, you know, until it becomes, until you make it. So I have people call them on bullshit and a lot of times you're right.

1:30:22I think when I handle it the most healthy way is I admit yes.

1:30:32And I'm aware. So I'm, and I'm going to keep going. You know, like resisting it tonight, you put it in the air. Oh, I will. I will. And I have to watch that where I'm like, No, I'm not. That's not what I'm doing. And usually when it's coming from people there, they're going, No, you are. I want to bid it. And then that's where I'm telling a lie. And that'll come up, get me later and I'll go, I didn't see it, I didn't see how I was doing that. I was either unaware, it wouldn't let myself be aware. I was denying that I was doing that. Would you say that's ego? Does ego been bad or good for you? Oh gosh, I think it's been, thank you, I'm so thankful for ego.

1:31:20Do, does it get off the bridal for me sometimes and run loose and run in places and where it's not of service to others and as it hurt loved ones and even strangers, yes.

1:31:43But I also, when my ego is really strong, it's in sync with, it's in sync with where I serve myself, also serve as others, serves others. It's those two are part and parcel. They're intertwined. And that's the capital E ego that I think I think it hope we all need more of. And that's what I mean when I talk about selfish. That's the redefining that with the real true meaning of that is not doing something for self at expense of your neighbor or harming others. It's for personal profit and pleasure that also is profit and pleasure for a utility I'm feeling tearing in sense more of others. And there's, again, back to the paradox that I think there's a place, I know there's a place, I believe there's a place where those are in sync.

1:32:46And when my ego's healthy,

1:32:51I'm able to say, I'm sorry, sooner, for a lie or a misdemeanor or harm to somebody, I'm able to be more empathetic because I got the confidence. Yeah, to be so I'm able to be more humble

1:33:13But still have Machin high and my heart high and look in the eye and go Yep, my bad bogey guilty. I Shanked that one out of bound man That's be filthy poor soul you go can be constructive not destructive You want an Oscar for your performance in Dallas -Bierce Club? Can you tell the story of becoming that character Ron Woodruff? What was the toughest part?

1:33:48Toughest part Which was the most enlightening part?

1:33:56Was getting to know who he was in between the lines. We're based on a life story in an hour and a half a film and script is great.

1:34:08But who was he in between the lines? Who was he before? He started a business before he was on a crusade. Before he went to alternative medicines.

1:34:23You know, the obvious thing people always talk about, well, I had to lose all that weight. That was not hard. That It was just a militaristic decision. This is where I can eat each day. And if I do this, each day for a week, I'll lose 2 .5 pounds a week. So I'm gonna give myself five months to do that. 2 .5 times as 10, there's a go. There's 47 pounds. That was like clockwork. So that was easy. That decision was made. I didn't go to the pizza hut buffet and have temptation in front of me. I had certain meals. I ate that when the wait just went off like clockwork. It was the who is Ron Woodruff in between the lines and what the gift I got given that gave me the insight to who that man was.

1:35:10I went to see his family and as I was leaving, his family offered me his diary. And I remember it kind of has it going wow yes, but I kind of hesitated because it felt maybe a little too intimate of a thing for me to have. It felt like it was kind of maybe infringing a bit, but I opened my hand and took it. And what I got in the diary was I got to know who Ron was before he had HIV. And little thing the dire he'd write in and the dreamer he was, and getting all set on a Sunday night and laying his shirt out and ironing it for the next morning, making sure that his little pager had fresh batteries in it because tomorrow morning he was going to cross down to hook up some speakers for 38 bucks, whatever.

1:36:07and then getting up that morning and writing about what kind of coffee he drank and how much gas it was going to take to get over a crossdown to do that job and hook up those speakers. And then on the way over, Paige coming in to say, no, we don't need you. We've gone with somebody else to hook them up. And here he was all buttoned up to cup to coffee in, hair slicked over, shirt ironed, little less than half tank of gas, but enough to get back home. Now where's this Monday go? The hope and the disappointment. You have to take all that in. That's part of that man. I'm gonna go to Sonic and get a double cheese bacon burger because She's kind of cute.

1:36:58She always gives me high price on it. Which leads to rolling joint hanging off those she gets off the work, sneaking over the local motel and shacking up in room 16. That's been lucky number 16. She la. Then wandering out that night, getting home one in the morning. No plans for Tuesday. Maybe later in the week think about what I'm going to do, about work or job. And these little dreams would get me peak and want to. And then something would happen where he wouldn't follow through or the deal would go that. The deal goes out.

1:37:44That no one who that there's in there was where I saw who he was a dreamer. And he just couldn't catch the break and didn't follow through. And then I remembered his family and said, like, oh, yeah, he invented it. He got patents on him. A whole bunch of things, but he never would. He had things to get patent, but never would follow through to get the government patent. And then later on, you'd see the product be made or sold on QVC or something. They'd be like, Ron, that was yours. Are there still your idea? Did you patent that? And he'd be like, no. like never would that there's something beautiful and sad about that.

1:38:22Yeah. That let me inside who he was, his heart and who he wanted to be and what he was hoping to be and trying to be, it couldn't quite pull on. When you go that deep, this is a part of him staying you forever. Are you able to let go? I mean, I hope so. I get I look there's a tenacity to to survive that I got. from him. I look hopefully I can try and find some of that in different ways in any character that I go play because that's if you if you if you really want to give a character an obstacle to overcome a need. I mean the base one is life and death whether that's the need to survive or the need to stave off extinction.

1:39:13I'm not talking about what the rules, the laws are, the social more is, the manners and graces. I'm fighting you, you're gonna fight for your own life in a world that's not supporting you to do so. You, there's a wonderful courage of, okay, watch this. What do I got to lose?

1:39:38my life or I'm in charge of extending it and get out of the way and I'll pick your pocket along with whatever it takes. So there's a to NASA to live by whatever means necessary to survive that I that I reminded of that I learned from So on that line of survival between life and death, you start in true detective, which I think explores some darker aspects of human nature. What did you take from that from that role, that experience philosophically, psychologically, the freedom of being on Ireland.

1:40:32He was such a singular Character and of a singular mind and as you know wasn't a dance party up there in his mind It was some some heavy stuff but also Existentially for him always like

1:40:56Death would be a deliverance for him It also would be a cop out in a way. It also would be, he was not a man who was going to give himself amnesty and didn't allow it from the rest of the world. It wouldn't give himself an out. And while living in his head and heart and spirit was more of a hell than arguably dying, and there was no alternative. That's not negotiable for that man. And that's why he was such a, that's why he was the best detective that ever walked the earth. That's why he was such a super hero in a way to have that singular. You don't go, oh, I wish I was him. No, but you'd be like, wow.

1:41:46That constitution, that clarity of identity. Talk about a measure in a man's constitution. he didn't allow anybody off the hook, especially himself. You wanted him to forgive a little bit or give himself a little empty. You wanted him to like, man, it's Saturday, bro. Can you go on a date? You wanted him to like enjoy something, but he was connected to something, and his DNA who who he was and something much more baseline truth. And that's why he was such a good detective. So that, but there's an island as much as that company can be. I said earlier, Amazon Trip, I didn't want to join the company.

1:42:33There's parts I think that I maybe gave to myself to Rustin Cole and also that Rustin Cole has given back to me that are like, yeah, when you're, when you want to pull the parachute because you can't stand the company that you're in McConaughey and your own mind, the Scratic Dialogue is driving you crazy. Don't pull a parachute, stick with it. Go through it. So you were able to walk around with that tormented mind of his... Tormented. I didn't have very much patience for mendacious talk. I didn't have as much patience for small talk. I wasn't tormented, but the character was and you have to embody him.

1:43:14So is that, I mean, does some of that bleed over? Are you able to separate the menu R from the character? It's not... Look, am I able to separate? Yeah, I came home to my kids. And when they walk and the door and greet me and go, what'd you do today? And you got three kids under 10 years old. You don't tell them about the scene where you help someone commit suicide. So you turn it into a parable. I've always said this, having kids has made me a better actor and a better storyteller because I have to parable I certain things. Until it and ways they go, oh, neat. You know, so I did I go, did I bring it home?

1:44:07I didn't bring torment. Did I bring introspection into my own? This is characters for me and I think this is true for a lot of actors and actresses. We don't, it's not a separation. If I've got, we each have everyone else in us. It's just seeing diving into Rustin Gold, knowing where his mind and heart is from the hand of Nick Petzolato who wrote the character and wrote the whole series. Understanding, I remember one, what the hell am I saying? What's he talking about? Then going deeper into that, well, this person really believes that. What does that say about how they move? Then I'm going all of a sudden, well, who is that in me?

1:44:54What part of my left brain is locked into that? What part of my reptilian brain is latched onto that? This other stuff is non -negotiable. Then, I just live in that. It's always taught like a 70s equalizer. Remember the old Latin morons equalizers? You can, you move up your 500HKZ, you move up your 60, you just re, re, re, re -balanced equalizer. And we all have, so it's just going to those parts of me where I'll turn up the volume, some parts of the bass, the treble on the equalizer, and turn down other parts of myself. And I'll, I'm not coming home tormented as rust and coal. Am I coming home?

1:45:42seeing torment where it should be seen. Am I reading the news differently? Or things coming out of the news and catching my eye has been bullshit or lies or truth that is just hard and going, yep. Yeah, I'm seeing it through a different lens, but I'm seeing my own life through a different lens. A lens that was opened up and an aperture that was opened up through Rust and Cole. I mean, the process of being an actor and actress, I guess, is a really interesting way to be a philosopher of human nature. Yeah, I mean, it's an incredible... Really in it. Dive into the humanities. And all the allergies and philosophy.

1:46:26And as I said, I've... Going to go into as I opened up that question like that the vague being on a island is a vacation. I am also conscious for five months when I'm playing Rustin Cole that this is an interesting fact. I've I've never I was as strong spiritually with my relationship with God when I did true detective is I've ever been. Why is that? Okay, which you would say wait a minute in some ways that's a those are Antonims they do where you know but my I pretty pretty safely can say that my own strength of spirit in my own personal life, Matthew's life there gave me the confidence to go further away.

1:47:27Deeper into the torture and deeper into the, but it was still, he was still always going after truth. That was the thing. He was not, he was not an evil man. I don't even know if you can call him a non -believer, but he was always going after the truth and the truth burned and he would take the scar and get burned for it. He'd die for it. That something was I was actually crumbling. Beau call about that. You know? And so, but I've been, I don't think it's coincidence that I was had so much Jordevae of diving into the depths of that tortured character. Because I trusted that when I go out, I'll come up the other side.

1:48:16It's always like jumping in a pool of water. And can you trust you'll come up the other side and not, you know, you go play a criminal. You trust you're gonna not gonna come out the other side of Tyrant in real life. He's go, oh, God, I got to go do that, came out, and I'm still alive, I've got all my faculties, I'm not in jail, I'm not, whatever it is. And so my own spiritual out of that time, definitely I think gave me a certain trusting confidence to go further into the dark. It was announced that you'd be starring in a Yellowstone spin -off show. What do you think about the cowboy ethos that permeates Yellowstone and other shows created by Taylor Sherdon?

1:49:02You're a Texan. I have a Texan. Yeah. What do you think about that like philosophy and way of life?

1:49:11I admire the simplicity of it. I mean, one way you could explain Yellowstone and Cossars Rolls, what will man do to protect land and family in a world that's trying to encroach in a world where there's a Cabo ethos that deems trespassing more clear earlier. Yeah. Then met then other other hat. Um, I admire that simplicity of right and wrong. And that the simplicity of that right and wrong doesn't always correlate coincide with the law. No, it's above the law. It's, you mentioned something earlier, I remember where it was in conversation, it's moving a little bit of like, okay, if the law I am handling this, I am.

1:50:17Yeah. And then it is, the law is not gonna handle this. Therefore I am. And then it is, I'm handling this. Law? Talk to them when you get to them. I'm handling this. There's a honesty to that. It just seems. Of course, it's dangerous because it's a slippery slope. Because of the power in that power corrupts, it can be a slippery slope where you completely disregard the law and you can hurt a lot of people. But when done right, you So there feels to be something really authentic and human about that. Protect family, protect land, above all else. Yeah. Look, I, you know, this is a broader question, but I'm going to piggyback it off of this.

1:51:25Back to the dreams and reality and evolved species and how do we do in creating a digital God and AI and these communities and friends that challenge us and think like us and not to hang out with. Do you think we're less evolved species than we give ourselves credit for? Do you think we give our self -credit for being more evolved than we actually are? I think we do. I do. I think we need to admit that. I think probably the Kaboaheethos is a stepping towards admitting that.

1:52:07And that's why it's so appealing to people. and kind of wakes them up to realize that we are not so far from our ancestors.

1:52:20That the values of loyalty are really important.

1:52:26Trust on the basic human level. How do you know if you can trust someone? I don't know if I can trust someone. one. Well, I don't know a trick to it. I do not know a trick to it, but I do come in, as I believe you do with high trust. I come in with a, I'm told. Sometimes I think I'm told that I trust too much sometimes. Have you been hurt? Have you been betrayed? And if you have, has that hurt your willingness to trust? No, it hurt. And I put that person and those people in another category back here and do my best not to let them know that it bothered me at all, but I know when I am with those people.

1:53:16But a new person you're still willing to do that. I'm not gonna do that. I think that's beginning of cynicism, which I think is a horrible disease of getting older. I'm not gonna do that. I fight in the cynicism of as much as you can. No way, no way, no way. I mean, there's no residual in it. Yeah, no win. Yeah. Um, it's easy to clever. Gets the laugh at the party. But uh, and if it sleeps well, it shouldn't be. Don't get comfortable in the cynicism. I have to ask about being a Texan. You're like, when I think Texas, I think Matthew, what kind of, uh, what's it mean to be a Texan to you? I recently moved to Austin, Texas.

1:54:03some uh... two years in all right

1:54:09what's the mean to be a tax educators taxes about independence politically taxes is not about republican or democrat but independence independence of spirit sovereignty uh... uh... taxes is about exploration. One of the things I love about Texas is I run into so many Texans around the world.

1:54:43Texans are taught to go be tech conservative and learn who we are, then go. Go explore, pioneer, journey, and hopefully you come on back with some goods and some stories. You're texting. And underneath that is this kind of freedom of being an individual in the for me of that word. Yeah. Well, Texas is liberal on your entrance. Very liberal on your entrance. Best regulation. Hey, welcome. High trust. High trust, sir. Welcome to our state. Come on in. Yes, yes, yes But if you light cheat steel. Yeah We're conservative on our consequences Yeah, that's a good line You've briefly pondered running for governor.

1:55:47I don't know if that's in your future. I hope it is Yet a few good lines about it Do you think about that kind of stuff about what the future holds in terms of political office? I don't think about it as terms of political office. I've graduated to a broader, larger thought of what my future holds and where would I be most useful as a leader? I think that's a fair word. whether that's thought, whether that's the leader of my family right now. It's a parent, it's a father, the leader of people that work with me.

1:56:36Politics is, it's, I'm not going to say it's, because it's not, it's not small. I don't know, that's why I say that out loud. It's not small. I do think it needs to re -engineerery to find what its purpose is before because it's just chasing its own tale right now with the two parties that seem to me to be completely about just invalidation of the opposition instead of vision of themselves.

1:57:10Because I think it needs redefinition of what it is because it is important. That's what I mean. That's why I said I don't mean small. It needs to think bigger about what it is and how it's useful. When it seeks to invalidate it's small, when it seeks vision, it can be big. Yes. Well, one's affirmative, one's going into that sentence as we were talking about. Yeah, you know and validation of any opposing thought or maybe that were even opposing Opposition is a is a is a is an is an arrogant term. That's too strong. So a lot of times not even opposition alternative Other than another way of thinking about it.

1:57:48Oh could both be true. Oh, how could we parlay those two ideas? You know this the one of the challenges with These ideas of a third party or meet in the middle. It's kind of got this historic notion of a B &O where it comes to your cumsa, it's sort of mystery in between, kind of, go which way the wind blows. I think done the right way, and it doesn't have to be under a third party's name necessarily, but it's actually an incredibly rebellious position right now. And it's actually, and I love sports, it's tactically the place with which to move most advantageously. I think of their free safety in the game of football.

1:58:43They're in the middle of the field and they're deep. They choose to defend left or right according to the play that's been called by the offense. Similar to the offense. The run of Mac, you read the diva, and then you're gonna run right to run left to go away from that opposition. It's a tactical spot. To be truly independent. And respond. And respond. So do you think you have a role in that and political officers? I don't know. It's on mine. It's not out of my mental box. And I gave it real sincere thought and discernment for over a year.

1:59:29And it's a wonderful weather, whether it ended up, whether it ended up getting politics or not, it was a wonderful exercise, one that if anyone else got time to do it, do it, to ask yourself what you would do if you were CEO of a state, CEO of a nation, CEO of the world. That's a great thing to go, you want to get your values line? You want to admit where you lie and throw yourself some pop quizzes and what if his phone call comes at 4 a .m.? What you got, you know, who you want to surround yourself with? It's really great questions to ask. And I think it's helped me. And a more micro level, be a better father and better man, taking considerations that I did not maybe take in as seriously before considering it.

2:00:12I don't know if that's in my future. I got, you know, useful is a big part. It's got to be, I would have to be useful. I have to be useful in the right way. And is that my lane to be most useful? It's a good question for a leader to ask, how can I be useful? I have to ask you about interstellar. So I think it's an incredible film. I've seen it inspire so many scientists and engineers. Philosopher, everybody, humans, it explores space travel, physics of space time, human nature, human condition, human connection. How was that film expanded your understanding of the universe and our place in it?

2:01:03Well, it's got the old Mr. Mayor on the corner, how big is that cloud metaphor in it, because that was the character I played Cooper's, that was the existential question for him. head down, practical, stay here, be a father to my children. But it's dream. Before his children were to go explore space. So when he's taking that truck out and the countdown's going down, that's the hinge of the existential question that we all face in some form.

2:01:44The sense of time, I wish I think everyone loves that sense of where time can run at different speeds. And there's a incredible scene where Cooper's a father's getting video feed from his children who age and he's realizing he's missed all that.

2:02:11Yeah.

2:02:15You know, I mean, overall, that concept makes me consider and imagine. We talk about mystical successes instead of engineered ones like the engineered ones. There's ethos from that film and what Nolan put into that film and theories that make me go, yeah, what does it do this matter? Maybe we are. Maybe we're a, it makes me go, maybe this is all, it's already all been written. What's happening right now in this flip of time you're here, 53 years so far, we'll see how many we get. But what other parallel timelines are happening out there? Is it small minded of us to define life on other planets as only something that can live within a climate that has water in this amount of O2?

2:03:11Those terms may be too small. What do you mean? Who are we saying only life has to have water in this amount of oxygen and carbon dioxide? Maybe there's a whole redefinition of the ingredients that other life forms. forms need. It's sure in a similar way to contact. It's a move I did with Bob Zemeckis.

2:03:34It inspires me that the universe is more active and lively and God's backyards bigger than I thought. And wow, that's exciting. And you know, people going out, yeah, you believe in extra stress for life. I said, yes, man, I think it'd be arrogant not to. I sure hope I think there's alien civilizations all out there, intelligent ones just far on distant stars. I hope so. And I think we, it's possible. We have many, among us right here. And I go for the, the why not in that, just to keep that, that train of thought open to learn and consider, you know, those exit to question, I think be arrogant not to.

2:04:24There's so many hundreds of billions of planets just in our galaxy. Just an hour. I can't imagine there's not life out there. But I suspect it's very different, like you said, than we are. And we have to have a humility to open our eyes to how different life could be. And if and when we cross it, unlike we've had tenancies do when we try to go with some nation takeovers, I think it would be our inherent glitch to go in believing that any other life form civilization wants to take over territories, to go into it with thinking that, okay, this is an opposition. I mean, I think that's a human trait of ours.

2:05:25And to consider that another life form would have an interest that more land or more territory is good for them. I think it's a shallow idea. Yeah, I don't think there, I think of it more like, you know, when I think of heaven, those considerations are not. And in anyone's mind, heart, or intent in heaven that I think of, you know, so another civilization, these things, I don't, I mean, I, I, I hope that if we were to see and learn, that would be the natural side of welcoming it wouldn't be a primate response to, no, I have fire. and you're coming over trying to put it out or I have food and you're trying to steal my food.

2:06:12I don't think it would be... I think it's a shall I thought to think that it's going to be about ownership and we would be trespassing. I think it would be, I don't think they're... What have a sense of borders as we do? I just hope we humans are smart enough to detect and to see aliens. because because of how different they are, you know, we don't we often have a very narrow definition of what is intelligence, you know, it's very possible that trees are extremely intelligent if we kind of zoom out at a different time scale or different like just look at stuff and from a bigger perspective that that's outside of being so human -centric.

2:06:55It's great. quote that someone told me this ashrothis is told me this how accurate is or not someone else can argue the validity of what I'm about to say or not but I thought it really was a perspective grabber for me like look see the universe is created at midnight humans came around at 11 .59 in 36 seconds I love the little now these are that put that frame like that make it oh yeah pale blue dot, there it is, that perspective, something so relaxing and empowering about that at the same time, and humbling, but confidence boosting, you know, allows forgiveness, allows ambition. I just love the perspective of that picture, to picture it that way, in our timeline.

2:07:48Do you hope humans become a multi -punterious species as we're trying to do as SpaceX is pushing forward, traveling out to Mars, potentially colonizing Mars, colonizing other planets? Yeah. Yeah, go, I love the ambition of it. I love the pioneering nature of it. I love the extension of what we consider as our backyard becoming more for dimensional like that. Not at the expense of, we still got stuff to take care of. We got gardens to tend right here. And sure as hell not to go, not to quit on us, to go, oh, let's get out here because this didn't really work in. No, no, no, no, no. know, we got a tie that we're still supposed to pay here.

2:08:46That's part of this pressure testing us as a civilization of the species. Whether you call that restoration order or whether you call that, let's figure out how to adapt best we can. No, not the expense of quitting here on earth. But let a few, a few select folks explore. Yeah, because that's like a guy say go for it. Please one of the coolest things that we humans do It's kind of embodies the human spirit reach out into the unknown But it's hard I mean as interstellar shows and so on Well, and Elon talks about it. It's not gonna be a weekend daisy trip And he's just speculating how hard it could be much harder in different ways that he doesn't understand yet Yeah, well that you know that dance between the impossible and the inevitable that's definitely there With what SpaceX is doing what all the folks Who are trying to become a multi -printer species are doing it's really hard it's like Build rockets that fight off gravity and a cost effective way It's really hard.

2:10:08Space X is close to being bankrupt several times. It's just hard. But it's also inspiring to some people are just crazy enough bold enough to keep trying.

2:10:22What advice would you give to young folks? What advice would I give? In high school and college that are thinking of how to make They're way in this world.

2:10:37If you haven't already, can you...

2:10:45Can you define what you have an innate ability for and Match that with what you're willing to hustle to get?

2:10:56Sometimes Sometimes we have an innate ability, but we don't want to work for it. We take it for granted. I mean, I'm doing something that may work. I pay the bills. I get a spy day today. But we don't really like it. We have trouble finding a way to enjoy it. Definitely don't love it. And then sometimes we don't know what our innate ability is and we're hustling and working our tail off and breaking the sweat to do something that we really aren't that good at on an innate level. And that's a good challenge. And you can work and become good at something that you don't have an innate ability for.

2:11:45But if you can match those two, what do you have an innate ability? Because we have an innate ability to do. When we do that, well, we do kind of enjoy it. And one of the things that requires is to kind of be really honest with yourself at what your innate ability is because oftentimes there's a lot of noise when you're growing up, people telling you what you're good at and not good at, like really, you have to look at yourself, listen to yourself, that inner, like a deep, rigorous self -analysis of what am I actually good at? Not what I hope to be good at but what I'm actually good at, right?

2:12:19And then if you look at that and you can define those two, hopefully, you can activate it in a way where there's a demand for what you supply. You found love with Camila Elvis, McConaughey. What advice would you give to people on how to do just that? How to find love. Oh. Oh. Oh. It's a wonderful subject. It's been discussed since we get it. Time hadn't it? Love it. So I can tell you what things I've kind of learned and I'm still learning. You know, love is one of those mystical successes. It doesn't make sense.

2:13:23It...

2:13:26You know, when I was... Before I met Camilla, I had had... I was coming on to my late 30s. As much as I'm not a person that is guided by timelines,

2:13:43I was... to what I thought it was gonna be relationship -wise. I thought about that time I met the woman, I loved Mary and started family and that hadn't happened. And I did find myself doing that thing I was doing at the Amazon, looking around the corner.

2:14:03Any perspective, possible female I met that I was attracted to, I was like, maybe this is the one. I make the joke, but it's true. I get every red light. I'm like checking out who's next me in produce section of supermarket. I'm like chosen produce section You know, it's like looking When you're in that zone You can also be a little intrusive you can trespass on people's you can get outside of yourself You can be overly impressed and not as involved and have your own constitution and sit back and therefore If you're outside yourself you're less attractive to your possible mate.

2:14:46I've got a series of dreams that are written about, but I had it one then that was very spiritual. That was me as a radio your 88 -year -old bachelor and never got married and it was a beautiful dream. Where on paper, I thought that should be a nightmare. It wasn't what that dream did for me. He You may not find the woman for you and get married. Not a life with her. That may not be. And for the first time in life, I was okay with that. Not more than intellectually, spiritually, I was grounded. I was like, okay.

2:15:35Then I'm moving through the world and on this particular night as myself, not in truity, I was inviting, I did see her move across the room and did not say who is that. I said, what is that? And then did move to call her across the room. So I did invite, but I was not outside of myself. And I was able to be myself with With her, what my eyes saw, everything that she turned out to be when the lens got zoomed in, more details got known, and we began to talk and got more intimate and closer together and spend more time, became true and then some. But not every single thing that I imagined when I saw her move across the room turned out to be true and then some.

2:16:22in the, just the image.

2:16:29We found a, had a moral, similar moral bottom line about life, each other, how we treat ourselves, what we respect, what our own constitution to our, with similar perspectives on raising children, which is very important to me and her. And then we just enjoy each other's company. Yeah. And we laugh together and we support each other and we promote it more of each other and we lit each other's fire. And we, if one was rolling, we kept, this one, you go, go, go again, take the next shot. More, more, more, more. This was a biggie too. Getting excited for each other's success. Yes. Yes. Yes, to be able, I think it's very important.

2:17:23We all have jealousy. I get it, but it's very important to be able, if you can, be happy for your lover when they succeed or are succeeding or are across the room with the party laughing with the stranger to be happy or them when has nothing to do with you. She was, I would be away. She would, the questions and the talks we would have, she was happy for me about how excited I was about my day and my day that nothing would do with her. Yeah, she was there. And I found myself not telling myself to be happy for her, but being really, really happy for her when she would tell me about something that happened that day.

2:18:06Her. And as much as I went through my head, oh, I'd have been great if I would have been there. I was like, no, I don't want to trespass on that. That you had that independent of me. Bravo. That's a choice you make not to give any time to the jealousy, to the very natural jealousy that we humans have. It sure doesn't have any, I don't see the residuals in it. True. I've got it. I've had it. And I have it. I just don't, you know, I haven't seen where it has any payback. I got to ask you the biggest possible question. And what's the meaning of this whole thing? What's the meaning of life? Right.

2:18:49Matthew McCodday. Why? Why are we here?

2:18:57I don't know why. We're here. I prescribe to in a religious sense the Restoration Order. We have to restore order. I really, I purchased that and loved that incentive and loved that view. But I don't really know why we're here. But I do know to go back to the front, we are here. That part's inevitable. So now let's flip the script and go to the why not.

2:19:33Just keep living. What are we doing? the base of everything Eric and we can argue that I at the base of it I can get all I can come up with is We'll just keep living man. I mean what else are we supposed to do when we don't have any idea what to do When we know exactly what we want to do Make it matter Even when it doesn't matter that matters Not for what? I don't know. For the fun of it. That matters. Yeah, our ability to create meaning and beauty in the mundane in the absurd. It's kind of cool. Yeah. And we share it with each other. Yeah. We're getting excited. Yeah. And we create some pretty cool stuff along the way.

2:20:23I mean, I say I'm confident enough that I might be arrogant. I mean to say, but I do believe, believe that we're here to each generation have a small ascension or else what's it for and we're not really sure what the ascension is towards just kind of no no just at I do think it's up. I do think it's up. I do think that it is definitely arrogant to think that we as a species or generation or people or humanity are going to reach the top of the And then I just send it to staircase and go, Ta -da! I think that's a, I think that is not only false, but I think it's full -hearted, and I think it's a recipe for having more angst, and even cynicism we talked about, and unrest and lack of seeing beauty and joy in this life while rent it.

2:21:34I think life's a verb.

2:21:42live it as best we can. Hopefully I mean I don't know sometimes I'm just I don't have a grand plan man I'm just trying to connect the damn dot. I'm confused frustrated I don't know what I don't feel any gravity or building or linear to it towards what I'm doing and I'm just like going

2:22:02what's that Peterson line for you don't believe in having do what you can to get as far away from Hell's possible. Sometimes. Yeah. It's a great line sometimes. I'm just trying to like, man, just don't don't sink the ship right now. Just keep your head above water. Maintain. It's trying to hold on. And hopefully give yourself a chance to notice the magic that mystical. I try to do that. Yeah. I want to get through off. Because it's there. I do believe it's all around us all the time. Yeah. Just are we on a frequency and do we do allow ourselves to receive it and see it. I got it tuned the radio.

2:22:36Yeah. Because if we look for it too hard, we see false idols. And if we don't look at all, we come call us and miss it all. Yeah. It's a fun little life we've got. Yeah. Matthew. I'm a huge fan. I think you're an incredible person. Thank you for all the everything you've created in this world. Thank you for being a unique human that inspires millions. and thank you for talking today. I was nervous, but you made me feel at home. That was beautiful. Well, I felt at home talking to you as well. I'm sharing that with you. I could go on a long haul. Just two Texans. That's right. Having good news. New Texans.

2:23:16New Texans, here we go. All right, thank you, Willie. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this conversation with Matthew McConaughey. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, let me leave you with some words from Matthew McConaughey himself. Don't walk into a place like you want to buy it. Walk in like you own it. Thank you for listening. I hope to see you next time.