#402 – Michael Malice: Thanksgiving Pirate Special

28:16Okay. Uh, it is Thanksgiving. So in a tradition following tradition, what are you thankful for, Michael? I got a world. Do you have a list too? No, not really. Really? It's up in here. Oh, that mean, but you have several things you're thankful for. Yes. You're okay. Yes. One of the things I, my list comes from the heart. I don't have to write anything down. Well, I don't have a ring down. Okay. One of the things that I'm most thankful for. This is a common answer, but I can back it up is my family because my nephew Lucas is now six years old. And he, when kids have a sense of humor, it's like just miraculous.

28:56So he stole my sister's phone, his mom figured out that grandma is listed as mom in the phone. And he calls her up and he's like, Michael's in the hospital. He's really sick. He didn't want to tell you. And she's freaking out. He goes, prank. So I took him, Dinesh D'Souza just released a movie called Police State, which is actually really good. Highly recommended. I was surprised how much I liked it there because he wasn't going Republicans, good Democrats bad. It was just about authoritarianism. And he had a movie premiere Mar -a -Lago. So I'm like, I got to bring Lucas to Mar -a -Lago. So Lucas is, I'm like, we're going to the president's house.

29:33He's like, oh, the White House. And I'm like, no, like a former president, he goes, oh, Abe Lincoln. And I'm like, okay, kid logic. Like he's giving logical answers. This is kind of like AI. You have to, you have to program it to, it's using logic correctly. You should have told him as a president that's second to only Abe Lincoln in terms of accomplishments. Yeah. He went up to all the women in their ball gown, you know, evening gowns. And he goes, you're so beautiful. Were you born as a girl? So when you have this six -year -old asking you this, it was really, really fun. So that is a great joy to have an FU.

30:13And I have another one, Zach who's coming up in age and he's starting to talk now. That is really, really fun. Getting to watch them, you know, find out about the world for the first time. I'm also training them like that he, he wants, he loves being funny and having fun. Your, your audience in a sense. Yeah, but, because you giggle and, I give, you were pranked for us. It gives me a high five. My family and this is one, you talk about what I find funny. This is things that actually enraged me when people in this such a wasp thing. Don't just go with the joke or they're like, I don't get it or they don't understand to just go with it.

30:51I was in the car with my sister when she was like 10, 12, whatever. She's much younger than me. She's like 12 years younger. And there's this species of squid, by the way, which is asymmetric. One of its eyes is very much bigger than the other because it swims horizontally and so one's looking up, one's looking down with this more light. Shout out, if you want to learn more about squids, go to octonation .com. Octonation, shout out, shout out, shout out to Warren. There's a lot of fascinating stuff. Octonation on Instagram. Yes. I was in the car with my sister. She's like 10 or 12. Me as a pirate.

31:22I'm sorry for the rude interruptions. I appreciate that account, especially. Yeah, it's a great. Yeah. These jokes and thoughts are coming to me at a like a 10 -second delay. So I apologize. Anyway, you were telling about the asymmetrical. I know where I was. I'm sorry. All right. All right. So I told my mom. Sometimes you need help. No. They just get into. I was your skin is showing it. It's getting dark. I told my sister I go, when you were born, one of your eyes was bigger than the other and you had to have surgery to fix it. So she turns. She's like, mom and my mom goes, honey, the important thing is that you're beautiful now.

32:01That's all. It's like, what's the big deal? It's just a little surgery. Am I says, all right, calls grandma. And grandma goes, she goes, Michael said that I was born one of the eyes. She goes, why is he telling you this now? It's not a big deal. You were the fact that everyone went with this. Oh, was I was so impressed. I was like, this is a quality family in this very specific regard. Does your family have a sense of humor? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Soviet culture. There's like a dark sense of humor. Very much. There's a word play. Word play. Yeah. Yeah. Especially the Russian language allows for some like hilarity to it.

32:41There's also culture of like poetry and like my dad, my mom too. They remember a lot of lines from books and poems. So there's just you can do a lot of fascinating references that add to the humor and the richness of the culture. I feel like that's a very Russian thing. Like at a party or maybe at a bar or something. I don't know where you'd meet people. These are such great ice. I saw out. I met in Russia. I met these would be such good icebreakers. Right. You go up to someone goes, hey, do you hear this one? No vanic thought and you just tell him some little story. Did you say icebreakers? Because it's cold in Russia.

33:21I'm here all night. That's what you never literally ask. I feel like that's a thing. Yeah. And that's not a thing in America. You mean like witty banter? No. Meaning you go up to stranger and like that's your icebreaker. You tell him this little little joke. And since everyone kind of has the same sensibilities by the way you guys are chatting. I don't think that's a thing here. Yeah. Here's more small talk, which drives me crazy. So what else are you thankful for? Well, what's something you're thankful for? Well, you want to be with family. I'm definitely thankful for family. Okay. Yeah. How, if I may ask, how do they react to you?

33:57Like you're sitting down with Elon, you say, you know, Nihahu, you say, you know, with all these big, with Kanye, all these big names. Are they expressing that they're proud of you? Or is it more like why haven't you talked to this person? More Michael Malas, please. People's choice. Yeah. Yeah. They're very proud. They've been very, they're very, I mean, but they get argumentative when we just, they're just like a regular human being with whom I'm close and we just argue about stuff. They're not maybe not enough, showed them being proud of, but that that part is just the nature of our relationship.

34:35It's also Soviet parents. Yeah. I don't talk to my dad. That's one of the reasons, because there's never, ever any good job. And at a certain point, it's like, why am I trying to search, search for approval from someone I'm never getting get it for and from who it wouldn't mean anything at this point anyway? Well, that's interesting. I mean, there's a journey like that for a lot of people with their father, with their mother, like they're always trying to find approval. Right. And that's life. For a lot of people. Yeah. That's that's a really big part of the human condition. Is that relationship you have with your father, with your mother?

35:13I don't know. It's a beautiful thing. So it's whether it's been a rough childhood or a beautiful one, all of it. That's who you are. Like that, the relationship, especially early on in your life with your father, with your mother, is like extremely formative. Yeah. So my dad taught me a lot of things at a young age that I'm very, very grateful for. He was, he's extremely intelligent, very flawed, and that's fine. We all are except for me. And it's the kind of things that when you learn things that are right, and this is one of the things I like about being older, is that when I'm a friend's younger, much older, when I have friends who are younger, it's very easy for me to keep them from making the mistakes I did.

35:59So at least this is something I'm getting out of it. Is that, okay, I can't fix these mistakes, but it just takes me 30 seconds, and I can pull you back from making the mistake. So he taught me a lot as a kid. He really encouraged me very much to, he's a very good sense of humor, and also very bad in some ways, dad jokes, but also really funny jokes. But this love of learning, that I got that from him, and I mean, I have got literally right now 98 books on my shelf to read. It's just a life that makes me, I remember I had a friend, and she ran it to someone she went to high school with, and he stopped you on the train, and he's like, yo, you're not in college, you don't need to read books anymore, and it was just like horrified to hear this.

36:41Yeah. Yeah. Boy, don't I know it. I mean, I mean, you do laugh, but like, when you got, there's a lot of things I don't understand. When you got heat for like, I want to read the Western classics to me that that might have been like the internet, it's absolute worst. I think there's just a cynical perspective you can take that there, this is such a simple celebration of a thing that there must be something behind it. I think the internet for good and bad is just skeptical. Like what's behind this? My hero, Albert Camus, and if there's one thing I would want to fight its cynicism. Yeah. Because it's such a giving up, it's such everything sucks, this sucks, that sucks, that sucks.

37:29Most things suck, most standard comedians suck, most movie suck, all podcast suck. But it doesn't especially yours, especially mine. It's unwatchable. You're welcome. He came in spilling correctly.

37:44But the stuff that's good is what matters. Who cares if 90 % of movies are terrible? Like there are the ones that change your life, the books, the people, the comedians, the shows, the music. And even the terrible things have good moments, beautiful moments. Some not all. Your podcast being an example of not all. I've literally just, I keep listening for something good, something good. In all fairness, none of my guests have anything to offer. It's not on me. I try. Yeah. Well, I wish you talk a little less in your podcast. It's a little excessive. I only listen for the underwear commercials. She's underwear .com.

38:28Probably got Malice. I think you did this. I haven't seen you doing a while, put this kind of commentary on a debate. Or I think it was with Rand, like an iron ran debate or something like that. Oh, yeah. Malice at the movies. I watched the video and I broke it down. That was really great. I wish you did that more. I haven't done live streaming in a long time. It was something I was doing a lot in New York, especially during COVID. I feel that I don't know. I'm having, I got so many projects on the plate. Oh, this is something awesome. Thank you for this is something I'm very, very thankful for it.

39:06I'm getting announced it here. Coming out of the closet finally. Go ahead.

39:12Who's the lucky guy?

39:18You're the one in drag.

39:23He makes me, he makes me call him sex freedman. You like it. So I didn't say it. I didn't even apply that. When I in, as you probably know, as you know, but as many people watching this also know, Harvey P. Carr, who had the comic book series American Splendor was the subject of movie American Splendor. He wrote a graphic novel about me in 2006 called Egon Heubress, which goes for like $150 on eBay. It's not worth it. Just download it. And I met Harvey because I wrote this screenplay about this band from the 80s called Rubber Rodeo. It's a real band. And the keyboardist Gary Leibh, who passed away, Reston P.

40:08Gary, introduced me to Harvey because he did the animation for the movie. And this script has been in my desk for over 20 years. And I realized, thanks to my buddy Eric July, who has some huge success with his comics, I could just produce this as a graphic novel. So I've got an artist. We're getting it together. So I'm going to make it happen finally. And it's some of the best writing I've ever done. I'm really proud of the story. It's kind of ironic reading it now because when you're a writer, obviously, you're different books. You put different aspects of yourself into them. And this story is very, very dark because basically they did all the right things and they went nowhere.

40:48What I realized was reading it now that all these fears I had over 20 years ago about what if I'm not going to make it? What if you know I'm doing all the hard work and it's still not enough? Now it's been disproven because I can at least pay my rent. You feel like you've made it. As he said, you could pay your rent. I feel that to make it is if you can pay your, if you don't have to have a boss. And you know how I really felt like I made it? This is going to sound like a joke and it's not. This is being an immigrant. I own, as you know, Margaret Thatcher's bookcases. Yes. So to me as an immigrant to have her bookcases in my house, I've made it.

41:32You're right. It's not a joke. It's not, there's nothing funny about it at all. Not what? Stop being serious. Oh, nice. Oh, now I'm more nervous. And aroused. So what else are you thankful for? So we both thankful for family. You I mean, I'm the fact that I can get it up. What's that? Nothing. Go ahead. I think as an author to be able to write what you want and have enough an audience that it covers your living, that's as good as it gets as an author almost. You don't need to be Stephen King or some legend. It's like, you know, there's lots of standups who aren't like world famous, but they they have perfectly good living.

42:18They do their gig. They do what they love. I feel very, very blessed. You must be thankful for your career. Yeah. Yeah. Career wise. But like, I think the best part about is just meeting making friends with people I admire. Okay. Quite honest is just friends. You know, the people that have gotten to know me, I hide from the world sometimes. I hit some low points, especially with this new, all the new experiences. And just the people that have been there for me, having given up on me. You know, there's days, and I'm sure you've had this also, where like, I literally don't speak to someone the whole day.

42:52And in certain times of my life, it's really, I remember very vividly. I was in DC in 97. I was in intern and that summer DC closes down in the weekends. And I remember with those weekends when like, I got off the phone with like, the third person, I knew there was no possibility anyone was going to call. And what that felt like. And it was dark and it was bad. So I remember those feelings of loneliness, like a lot. I still feel alone like that sometimes. You don't feel, you don't feel alone? Not anymore. What's the, what's the reason you think? I, because there's like, I have a lot of people who I care about, who care about me.

43:43But I mean, the thing about moving Austin is I forgot how lonely New York got, because it was like one after another. I lost everybody. And then you start losing the places you go to. And then it was just like Holy crap. I'm very isolated. And here in Austin, there's not as much to do obviously as in New York. But there's a lot of people here where people are coming all the time. So if I ever want to like hang out with someone, you know, I've got a long list. And these are people who I've known for a very long time. People who know me quite well so I could be myself. My awful, awful, awful, awful, awful, awful self.

44:19And that is something I don't take lightly. I moved to Texas. It's going to succeed. Yeah. It's just the very, you know what happened with that? No. I forget the guys in the eight minutes probably for the best. Monday, on Monday, a guy in the Texas legislature introduces a bill to have it on the referendum, to have a referendum for Texas to declare its independence. Tuesday, I'm unrogan. Me and him discuss it. I give a national attention. It was also really funny because a lot of people like these people have been in Texas five minutes. I go to the Texas legislature, meet with the guy, have a nice conversation.

45:01Month or two later, unanimous, I think he gets voted kicked out of Congress because he got an intern drunk and was inappropriate with her. At least it was a girl in this case. But yeah, so it's like, that was my little Texas independence moment. Oh, it didn't go anywhere. It did not go anywhere. Well, but it's still part of the platform, the Texas Republican Party. Yeah. It's fascinating that history is probably leading with stories like this of failed revolutionaries. We celebrate the heroes, but then there's the losers like myself. Yeah, we go. Yeah. And we're going to mark that one as a failure and edit it out.

45:44And moving on. So, thankful. Yeah, friendships, right. But by the way, I want to say just to you, I'm thankful in this lonely moment for people who write books. I've been listening to audiobooks a lot and reading a lot. I really like audiobooks, actually. And just like, I don't know, I can just name random person. Sir, he's a historian. I'm reading on the wait, I read him. What do you? What do you? I just see he written a book most recently about the Russia Ukraine war. He wrote another one that I read. Didn't he write empires, I think the fall of the Soviet Union, something like that. Yeah. Yeah.

46:21Yeah, it was very, very good. He's great. I used to him as a resource for the White Pill. He's objective while still having emotion and feeling to it. Like he has a bias. That's fine. But without, well, a lot of times when you write a story that involves Putin, people are really ideological. Yeah. They don't really like, they don't write with calmness and the clarity and the rigor of history. There's emotion in it. Like there's almost a virtue signaling. Yeah. And he doesn't have that even though he is Ukrainian and is very strong opinions on the matter. Anyway, there's people like that and he does incredible job researching a recent event.

47:03Like he says, I was looking at everything that's been written about the war in Ukraine and realizing the old Churchill line that historians are the worst ones to write about current events except everybody else. And so he's like, I'll mind as well just write about this war and he doesn't accept from jobs summarizing day by day the details of this this war. Anyway, so I'm just grateful for a guy like that. So for me, there's, I'll name some historians. I love Arthur Herman, Victor Sebastian is probably my favorite. David Petrusia PITR, USDA. When you are a historian, then I tried to do this to some degree in the White Pill as far as I could.

47:48But yeah, when you take data and you make it read like a novel. This, so you're learning about who we are as people, what had happened, but also it's entertaining and readable. That to me is like the acme of writing. And I have so much admiration. What does acme mean? Top. Okay. Zenith. Zenith. Okay. This is what writers do. They just come up with these incredibly sophisticated words and impressed. Well, actually, you could have just said the best of writing. Acme is also the company in like Bugs Bunny and Wiley Coyote. It's always Acme, you know, Acme, yeah, like Acme bombs. When they are that good, it's just it just it just leaves me in awe.

48:33It's just the rancher now is another one. Who? He wrote the Hamilton biography. Oh, nice. Oh, I have a lot of favorite historians about the whole time period of World War II. Both Shire. People that lived during it, especially I really like those accounts. Obviously Soul Genius and he's not a historian, but he's a counselor. Sure. Fascinating. You actually, how much do you talk about Soul Genius and not much, right? Why not? I feel like I wanted to. I did something I could add to him. He's the Michael Malice of previous century. No, he's talented, charismatic and skilled. So he's not the Michael Malice.

49:20Yeah, I did not. I feel like I didn't I didn't read Gulag Akapella go for the White Pill. I didn't. I didn't know. I feel I got a lot of it from Ann Applebaum, who's a very controversial figure. Her history books on the Soviet Union, I think are superb, but she's also accused of being very much a Gneokon and being a War Manger in contemporary times. Oh, I see. And I think comparisons between Putin and Stalin, although there is a Van diagram, I think are a bit much, because I think it's very hard to claim that if Putin conquered Ukraine, that there would be a genocide. Yeah, I don't think it's a very hard argument to make.

50:00In these tense times, even the comparisons of what's going on in Israel and either side, comparisons to the Holocaust are also troubling in this way. Yes. And I also don't like how that, you know, I got in trouble. There was some literal demon who works at the Atlantic as opposed to regular demon as opposed to figurative demon. I didn't know they employed demons. They exclusively employed demons at the Atlantic. And he was giving me crap this a couple of years ago on Twitter because I didn't think it's appropriate to refer to George Soros as a Holocaust survivor. And I'm like, listen, if you want to put them in the same context as Anne Frank, knock yourself out.

50:43But I think that's so completely disingenuous and frankly repulsive to me morally, to equivocate between figures like that. And also to claim that anyone who is a billionaire who is including Elon, including Sheldon Adelson, there's no shortage of these people. If you want to use your extreme wealth, use to influence politics, you have to be up for criticism. And to protect people, Bill Gates, to protect in these people from criticism, just on the base of the identity is drenched to me. But also the Holocaust as a historical event and the atrocities within it are just singular in history. And so comparing them, what's the utility?

51:30You're just basically trying to take this brand of using that term in a very specific way. And when they say climate denial, no one's denying climate exists. So you're just trying to go off of Holocaust denial. I think it's shameless. And I think it's gross. And it cheapens everything. There's deep important lessons about the Holocaust. Yes. To me, the lessons are about how extreme it can get and how fast. That's the one. So people ask, oh, are humans basically good? Are they basically evil? I always say they're silly animals. And I think people are, most people are almost fundamentally deranged.

52:14And that there's basically this veneer of civilization and decency. And when shit hits the fan and we see this over and over, they do things that would have been completely unthinkable even to themselves five years ago. Most people are fundamentally deranged with a veneer of civility. There's a show called, I think I disagree with that. What's the show called? I'm having Alzheimer's because of the advanced age. The skater. There's a show called, I think you should leave. It's a sketch comedy show. And he captures these great, has hair princess. He captures these great moments of just the very thin veneer of normalcy and just the craziness that's so frequently lurking underneath.

53:03Another great example of this when this is dealing with people who are literally crazy. Have you ever seen the show hoarders? So every episode of hoarders, there's two usually two people in every episode, but every episode has the same plot line. Veneer of normalcy, veneer of normalcy, veneer of normalcy, slight expression of concern for blood arrangement. And it always follows that exact pattern. Yeah, I don't know. I think the deep ocean of the human mind is good. Like there's a longing to be good to others. I have seen literally no evidence of this. And I know everything's the deep ocean with you people, but like, we meet you people.

53:43Fire it. Oh, I don't see it. You, you, you, that Mr. Parrot. You went into semi. Now, that's not nice to say in front of such a large audience. You're embarrassing me, Mr. Parrot. Lex, you, you have, he's a one of the male troll and barely an intellectual. That's not nice to say. That's not true. We talked about this. You have to see good in people. You have seen personally. Yeah. How quickly and easily it is for human beings to form out groups. Yeah. And to just read others, just as I just did a minute ago with the Atlantic, completely have the human race. And that happens constantly and very easily.

54:32Humans are tribal beings. So that does not, I don't see how that's compatible with this essential desire to do good. No, I think it's like in 1984, the two minutes of hate. There is a part of humans that wants to be tribal. Yeah. And wants to direct get angry and hateful. And then that hate is easy to direct. Yes. By especially people as you as an anarchist talk about their people in power. Yes. Direct that anger. But I think if you just look at recent human history, the desire for good, the communal desire for good outweighs that I think like most of life on earth right now, people are being good to each other in the most fundamental sense relative to how nature usually works.

55:21I think you're both wrong about people and about nature. So nature is not inherently violent in the sense like, for example, if anyone has an aquarium or if you look at wildlife, yeah, you're going to have predator prey. But these animals are going to be coexisting and they're going to be ignoring each other for the most part, right? And as for humans, you know, being essentially good, I think humans are essentially not to each other, you said, I think they're essentially civil and amiable. But that's not really being good. Good, I think is a thing that gets illustrated when you're challenged when there's a difficult situation.

55:58Yes. Yes. I mean, civility is a good starting point. And then when there's a big challenge that comes, people step up on average. I completely agree through that human beings are capable of such profound goodness that it kind of makes you extremely emotional. And I certainly think that that's true. But I think that that's more unusual than it is the norm. I see beauty everywhere. So do I? But that doesn't mean it's in every person, not in every person, but in most people. I think, I mean, I wish there was a really good way to measure this. My general sense of the world is just there's so much incredible both in terms of economics, in terms of art, in terms of just creation as a whole that's happened over the past century.

56:45It feels like the good is outpowering the bad. You just did the perfect segue. Mm -hmm to the box. Close in the box. So is it your fragile ego? That's what you stole my joke. You stole my joke. That was the joke I made of you before we recorded. You stole my joke. No, it did. I write all your material, you hack. So as you know, I have a lot of beautiful stuff in my house because I think it's something very important everyone listening. If you accomplish something that is great, some achievement, what I like to do is buy myself something to remember that moment because sometimes when it's hard, you forget you've done great things in your life.

57:37You've had accomplishments. It doesn't have to be some amazing factory. It could just be like my first job where I got to raise or you know what I...anything. So there's this amazing sculptor named Jake Michael Singer. Singer who's a sculptor. And I saw a piece of him. How's his singing voice? This is joke, son. I could go somewhere with this. How's his singing voice? Do you want me to write your joke for you? Yeah, what's the punch line? Hard. There it is. That's what she said. So I followed him on Instagram. He followed me back. And he's like, if I made, he says, what's the point of being an artist?

58:29If this work I create isn't in the spaces of people I like and admire, he's a big fan of yours. You've given him an hour episodes together, give him a joy. So he said, if I get a makelex sculpture, will he put on the shelf behind him? And what that reminded me of is when I was a kid, you read Batman comics and there's the Batcave. And the Batcave has all this cool stuff in it. I didn't realize until much later that all of those things in the Batcave had an origin story. So the giant penny, the dinosaur, there was actually a story where that came from. So if you're a fan of a show, you can spot, oh, this is when this appeared, this is when that appeared, this is then appeared.

59:11So he made you this sculpture. He lives in Turkey. And it's called Chance Murmer. And it is, I haven't even seen it yet. It is absolutely beautiful. So you want to do a little unboxing? Yes. Okay. Axe or body spray?

59:34All right. Let's do it on box.

59:40He likes his out of box. You know that Steven's the Gal movie where there's like a stripper that comes out of the box? Under C .H. He is on a boat. You're not an action film guy. No. Oh.

1:00:00One. What does the pirate say when he turns 80? What? I made. I made. Oh, he that's how I know you don't like him. I just don't like pirates. What your mom does. You play any musical instruments? No. No. Neither do you like senior guitar videos. Okay. Here's a big piece of wood for you. That's what it feels like just so you know. Oh wow. Yeah. Oh my god. This traveled across the world. So here's why his work speaks so much to me. So first of all, he's combining so many different references. It's Nike, the goddess of victory, right? It's that it looks like an angel as well. The Italian futurist, which is my favorite art movement from the early 20th century, they tried to capture motion in 2D or 3D form.

1:01:12Well, Jake, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for creating beautiful things. And I thank you for caring about somebody like me and somebody like Michael. Really feels a love. That's the other thing. Thank you. When you have something that matters to you in your house and you're having a bad day, you can look at it and remember, you know what I mean? That spirit of joy. And I actually have a list here. Okay. I got a little rant ready. Do you want to hear my rant? Yeah. Let's go. One of the things that drives me crazy is when people, especially conservatives, think that all contemporary art is ugly or abstract or like literally garbage.

1:01:54And there's a lot of that. But so much of the stuff out there in galleries is not only not crazy expensive, but they're trying to sell things for people in their house. And these are young artists, you know, they're trying to add beauty. I have a list. So if you don't believe me and you think all contemporary art is garbage or terrible, go to the website or any of these places that I'm going to battle off, look through them and you're telling me that that it's not about creating beauty and joy and things in people's lives. So I don't have any relationship with any of these people. These are just some galleries I follow on Instagram.

1:02:26Utrega gallery, antler gallery, giant robot two, byna, I know how to pronounce. I'm sorry, B, B, E, I, N, A, R, T, spoke art gallery, var gallery, milwaki, I was there. The pieces were not expensive at all. What kind of art are we talking about? Everything mostly paintings, mostly paintings, some sculptures too, like this. Corey Helfer, it is my favorite one in L .A. Night Gallery, Vertical Gallery, Avant Gallery, High Gallery, Haven Gallery and Curio Art Gallery. I'm telling you, it's not exorbitant. This is not the kind of thing where you have to go to a museum and be like, this doesn't make sense to me.

1:03:01You look at it right away, you're like, okay, I know what this is and it's beautiful, it's awesome. And you're supporting someone who's young and creative, trying to do something and make the world a better place. So I'm a big fan of the contemporary art scene. A lot of it is not great, but even the stuff that's not great is very rarely disgusting or gross. It's just like, okay, I've seen this before, something like that. It's like a stand -up where I'll pay money for the ticket and someone who's an opener, it's like, I wouldn't pay to see and perform, but he still made me laugh. That person is still more by far more good than bad.

1:03:38So a lot of this art isn't stuff I would own, but it's like, okay, I get it, I like it. Well, as the analogy goes, I really like going to open mics actually because it sounds absurd to say, but funny isn't the only thing that's beautiful about stand -up comedy. It's the act. The act. The it's going for it. It's trying to be funny. It's taking the leap, trying the joke, and some of the best stuff is actually funny, but the audience is like three people, two of whom are a drunkard board, and you're still going for it. And that's like, that's the human spirit right there. Rosanne was telling me how Gilbert Godfrew'd go on.

1:04:20It was like three in the morning, and it was like five her and like three other comics in the audience, and like they were all were just dying. Like, he was just killing them. Who's your favorite comedian?

1:04:33Dave Smith. Who? And cut scene. Favorite comedian. Well, first, I'm Norman McDonald. If you like put a gun to my head and add to it really quickly, that would be him. Okay. I would also say Louis CK. Oh, wow. Yeah. Oh my God. But that's almost like a vanilla answer at this moment in history because it's like a Louis CK is pretty radioactive. He is. Well, yeah. He does it. The tough topics. Sure. The best. Mitch Hattberg, the wit of a good one liner. It's great. I guess that's what Norman McDonald was. Yes. What about you? There's a, I mean, we're so fortunate to be here in Austin because that comedy mother ship, you go there and like people are just killing it.

1:05:22David Lucas is amazing. Tyra Vera. Tyra Vera probably did the best that I've seen since I've been here in Austin. And I watched him. And I'm like, this guy's even like even bitchier than I am. So I reached out to him. So he's just terrific. David Lucas is another one of buddy of mine. You just said a choice, I think. I'm thinking Dave Landau. Excuse me. Yeah. Dave Landau. Joe Magdade. It's true though. It's true. It's true. It's true. Dave Lucas. You've ever been to the comedy mother ship. It's a great, but it was a great spot. Where is that? Is that Austin? Austin. Is that where William Nelson is from?

1:05:59I haven't really. Go ahead. Oh, I heard a joke about that the other week. What's the tell the joke again? What's the only thing worse than giving head to William Nelson? What if he says, I'm not William Nelson? What's that Mr. Parrot? I know he's not funny. He's better. He thinks he's better on Twitter. But that's not nice to say. Right in front of his face. Just think how he feels. The statue's chance murmur is judging you. Chance. It's called chance murmur. Chance murmur. God, that's so beautiful. That's gorgeous. This is another reason I hate cynicism. And I talk about this a lot. Even just on Etsy, there are so many small, not huge companies, like individual artisans who are creating great stuff and just making it happen.

1:06:54And it's really sad for me where people can't see that. Or if they're like, well, how could I be excited about a sculpture when blah, blah, blah, middle east? And it's just like, you can always look for an excuse to look for joy or you could look for an excuse to look for joy. Yeah, that's season credible. I feel the same way, but only fans can't even get that out of my mouth before laughing at my own failed joke. That's what she said. And it. Oh, all right. That might be one of the first that's what she said from Michael Males. Yeah, I'm going to count that.

1:07:28I don't know what I'm going to do with mine because I got my own. Mine's three feet tall. Just like your box was much bigger. Yeah. It was giving me an inferiority complex. I think I'm going to invade Russia.

1:07:42That's an appolian reference. For those in the audience. I don't know if I'm going to I think I'm going to put out my bedroom. It was the first thing I see when I wake up. Put in the bedroom. Yeah. Do we get through everything we're thankful for? No, I've got lots of things I'm thankful for. What else friends, family, we said books. I'm thankful for career. I'm thankful for I am thankful for and I know people are going to lose their minds. And I can hear them flipping out already. I am thankful for social media. Yeah. I'm thankful for some reasons. First, it is a way for people to make connections that they couldn't have made in years past.

1:08:28That if you got some weird hobby, you can find that other person's weird hobby and you make that connection. It's a great way to stay in touch permanently for people. Otherwise, you lose touch with, you know, whatever venue. And it's also a great way to expose corporate depravity. When you have these organizations that are dishonest, I think the community notes thing on Twitter is the greatest thing ever. That's incredible. I wish that would pay attention to the Michael Mouse account more often. You shouldn't be encouraging anyone to pay attention to my Twitter account. Yeah. It's a dumpster fire.

1:09:00And I don't mean Bridget. I mean, like a literal Bridget fantasy. A Bridget by the is amazing. But your Twitter account makes yes. Not here. I wish she didn't. Georgetown. No, I mean, in this where we're sitting. The joke, Michael. Is it? Yeah. But I'm just really glad about it's another way for people who before would have felt very alone. I know it makes some people do feel alone, but for other people, it makes them feel connected. There's been a lot of talk about anti -semitism recently. Yeah. What's your sense about this? Is there anti -semitism like any other brand of hate? There's a lot of hate out there.

1:09:38No, I don't think it's like any other brand of hate. Because I don't think racists or transphobes or homophobes or misogynists or xenophobes argue openly or even not so openly for the killing of black Americans, transgender people, gay people, women or immigrants. And it's not only something that's talked about, it's something that has actually happened. It's not just the Holocaust, but just centuries of pogroms. There's this great book that I read many years ago called the Satanization of the Jews, Camille Paglia recommended it and I read it. And they live in this certain specific kind of anti -semitism.

1:10:23And again, I'm not talking about people who are against Israel something. I'm talking specifically about Jew hatred. They have this moral calculus that Jews are the only people who are capable of good or evil and Jews are exclusively capable of evil. And for example, if you look at the George W. Bush White House, you had W. You had Cheney, kind of Lisa Rice, Colin Powell, Donald Trump's Feld, a lot of these new kind advisors. So if there's 10 people in a room and there's one Jewish person, it's his fault and the rest are Jew -controlled. So again, they only exist as a puppet of Jews in this kind of worldview.

1:11:05And it's like that to me, if there were no Jews on earth, it is crazy to say that John Bolton and Liz Cheney and Lindsey Graham wouldn't be pushing for more war. That makes no sense to me. It's like you blame the Jews when bad things happen, but when a Jewish person doesn't something good, it doesn't really matter. Or just wait. He's going to do something bad. Well, yeah, that's true. Human beings do good things and then they do bad things sometimes. But it only counts when that Jewish person does the bad thing. I wonder what's a way to fight anti -semitism and fight hate in general. I think the only or the best way, because I thought a lot about this about how did gay Americans go from being universally hated and despised to the point that many people in the 80s went to their graves, those who had AIDS without even telling their parents because they were so scared.

1:12:03To now times square is just covered in pride flags. And I think, and this also works for Islamophobia and some of these other bigotry is what I call the ambassador program. Because as soon as you know someone who is a member of a certain group, it is a lot harder to be bigot against them. Because instead of this being this out group that's somewhere out there, it's like, wait a minute, I work with this guy. Yeah, he's kind of a jerk. And maybe he sees things a little differently than me, but this guy is not a horrible human being. So I think the only way to fight any form of bigotry is to be a good example of the counter to these whatever archetype or stereotype is in the culture.

1:12:54Karl Marx wrote that religion is the side of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of a solace condition. It is the opium of the people as the famous phrase goes. Do you think he has a point? No, I hate that quote. I absolutely hate it. I despise this sort of reddit internet atheist activism for the simple reason that I know many people who in finding faith have become objectively better human beings. Yeah, I mean, they start living consciously. They try, we all fail to be moral good people. So this sneering that these midwits, these marginally intelligent people have towards religious people.

1:13:42Now lots of religious people use religion to rationalize their bad behavior or you know, simple or big egos and so on and so forth. That exists. That's true. But to say that it never helps anyone and it's universally the op. See, Marx was talking about a period. I mean, I'll defend his quote when his argument was, you know, the masses are being starved and oppressed, but they're promised, don't worry, you'll have riches in heaven. So you should kind of let yourself be pushed around now and this is kind of this BS bargain that the people are being given. So that was, I think the point he was making.

1:14:24It's not, it certainly doesn't apply nowadays. I've been close to the family in the Midwest. They're good Christian people. I remember very specifically this guy shout out to him. Sean Sherrod. I went to college with him. David Lucas. And have you checked out the comedy mother? Great. Great. Great. Great. Of course, it's Austin. Well, it's Austin. And I, you know, I was 17, 18 freshman year and I was reading all this criticism of the Bible and I was like, look, this isn't there. Look at this in there. And he put his hand on my shoulder and he says, Michael, there's nothing you're going to tell me that's going to make me lose my faith.

1:15:02And that was a very, uh, self -aware and profound thing to say. As I've gotten older and I know lots of religious people, there's no part of me that, um, thinks they're wrong or they should be mocked. It's like, you know, it also reminds me of when people sneer at, uh, addicts in recovery. They're like alcoholism and disease is a choice. It's like, wait a minute. You don't know what it's like to have your entire life ruined by drug -drag alcohol. And if you have to tell yourself, you know, I have this disease in blah, blah, blah. And that keeps you from drinking and now you're a moral, upstanding person who's reliable and it takes responsibility for their actions.

1:15:41I don't see the harm at all. So I think this kind of activist atheism is, uh, cheap. I don't agree with it whatsoever. And I do not like that quote at all. Uh, but otherwise big fan of marks. I mean, it's, I think there's a fan of mine every other who was apology is he had this great quote. He goes, the gate, and this is me talking, he goes, the games people play to feel smarter than others is depressing and annoying. And I think this kind of fedora in an atheism is a good example because here's the other thing. If you've proven that someone else is stupid, that doesn't mean you're smart. You could both be stupid.

1:16:21So congrats. You prove someone else is stupid. Who cares? Yeah. Been sneering in all forms. Yes. General is just not great. That's one of the things I block out people on social media instantly. You're not going to sneer at me in my space. You could steer me all you want in your space. But I'm not putting up with your crap. I don't know you. My space, great social network. Is that on, uh, son six, that six, six, six street? A well dot com.

1:16:49G, that's Alex comes. Like a Pavlov's dog. That was the sound before you get to see spend 10 minutes waiting for an image of a lady load. One line at a time. Yeah.

1:17:10I recently talked to John Mirschammer. I don't know if you know him at all. So he has this idea about offensive realism. It's a way to analyze the world international relations and the basic idea now run it by you and see what you think is that states, nations want to survive and they try to do so by maximizing power, military power. And he talks about anarchy quite a bit in that one of these underlying assumptions of this way of viewing the world is that states are anarchy towards each other. Yes, that's true. And they operate under a lot of uncertainty. States cannot be sure that other states will not use military capabilities against them.

1:18:00Right. They want to survive and they want to use military power to, uh, control the uncertainty to protect themselves. So I disagree in that regard and I, I see on your bookshelf, uh, I think the world is a lot closer to brave new world than it is to 1994. And I think it is, if you look at, let's suppose China is influenced in America, right? The influence is far more through soft power than military power. China doesn't threaten America through, you know, we're going to kill you. It's more like their infiltration of universities, TikTok, things of that nature. Maybe this would have worked before the pop culture era, but I think one of the reasons we have this kind of American hegemony isn't just a function of American military.

1:18:52I think it's much more a function of American popular culture. When you're exporting ideas and culture, it makes other people in other countries feel closer to you and also feel if regard you as a friend and also to adopt your value. It's a great way to spread propaganda. It seems to correlate though, right? It's interesting. It's an interesting idea. What has more power? The viral spread of ideas or the power of the military? It seems that the United States is at the top of the world on both. That's true. And so it's hard to disentangle the two. Let's look at Europe. American culture is very popular in Europe in many ways, right?

1:19:36Like the best music comes out in Sweden, Swedish indie pop. There's singing in English, even though it's so on and so forth. None of this is a function. Maybe it's a function of post -World War II to some extent, but I don't think it's a function of American bases there. I think it's a function of we're exporting our music or TV shows and our movies. Yeah. It's interesting if the battle ground will be brave new world, the battle of ideas. I think it's clearly brave new. It's so much cheaper. And again, this is one of the dark side of social media to use influence than it is to use threats. I don't think I think Kovas is a good example of this.

1:20:12Like so much of the pressure. Yes, there was authoritarianism, but it was the fact that everyone bought into it, rightly or wrongly. But the vast majority of the population was behind all of these things. And that was through persuasion, not because and because people are begging for it to come back in many cases. So who's funding you? Which intelligence agency? What's that?

1:20:35This is how you do great interviewing. See, he didn't even expect that. Okay. What's that, Mr. Farrett?

1:20:47You knew it. But you didn't have any documentation, did you? I think Mr. Farrett is threatened by the better wings on chance, remember? He gets like that when he's turned on. He's not threatened. You can't wait until these all three of us all alone together. It's going to be one hell of a party. Beaks and feathers everywhere. And metal.

1:21:12Yeah, those things are beautiful. It's ridiculous. You have actually a lot of really cool stuff at your place. So what? What's the cool thing that stands out to you? Maybe a recent edition. So I went to the Dallas Museum of Art last year for my birthday. And there was a painting I liked. And I googled it and I saw the auction for that exact painting. And it was like, I think three grand, which is not cheap, but not something you think you think in a museum. I can never afford something like this, right? So when I was in, I went to Houston with some friends. The side serfs, Natalie, who made the cake of you.

1:21:56The cake. Terrified my mom. Did it? Yeah. Oh, no, it's not the cake that terrified my mom. It's you. Michael Mel is cutting it off, cutting the face off and laughing maniacally. Well, Natalie's pregnant. She's going to have a daughter named Daisy. So congrats to Natalie. But I was in the museum with them. And they was a statue of a thoth, who's the Egyptian god, whose head is an ibis. It's a bird of the long beak. And thoth is the god of the moon, god of knowledge, and supposedly he invented writing. So I thought, you know what? I've always loved ancient Egypt. I know a lot about it. And especially the mythology.

1:22:37It would be really cool as an aspiring author to have an ancient Egyptian thoth statue in my house. Well, it turned out that the Egyptians also killed and mummified ibises and buried them with scribes. And a week after I went to the museum, there was an auction for an ibis mummy. And I have it now in my house, still in its bandages, overlooking my desk. And we all know it's going to come to life and pack up my eyes and write with my blood. But that is one of the recent cool additions. Another thing I have, which is like in terms of holy crap, I've made it. I have an original Patrick Nagel painting.

1:23:18And if people don't know the name, he's like the 80s artist. He did the grand ran cover. We never see even nail salons. I have a male, which we're very rare for him to do. So that's two of my kind of favorite. Yes, what? He only drew women predominantly. I have one where we drew a male. Like a guy in a like a gene ad or something. And now I'm looking forward to. So Jake made me a three -foot tall sculpture called Future Murmur, which I am ecstatic to get. Does remind yourself, how many fascinating beautiful people that are out there. And just the victory and holiness and technology and speed and how many people have fought so that I could do what I do.

1:24:07That's another thing I'm grateful for. Just like the 100 billion or so people that came before us. Yeah. And also the trillions of life forms that came before that. Oh God, I've gone down this this trial of bite rabbit hole buying fossils because as a kid, I thought trial of bites were the coolest thing. And I've got like 15. Yeah. And what's interesting is when you buy trial of bite fossils on eBay, their listed is used. Because it's got to be newer used and according to the programming, so it's used. Yeah. Yeah. But just look thinking about all that history. Just all the life forms that came before.

1:24:47It seems like a really special thing we have gone on earth here. Oh, yeah. I think that's very fair to say. But I also think this kind of is like live life to the fullest. Kamu talked about living to the point of tears. Yeah. Especially on behalf people who didn't have that privilege. So I dedicated the white pill to my parents who got me out of the Soviet Union and all the kids who never could. And it's like when I die, I want everyone else to not know they're obviously going to be happy. But yeah, like I'm not here and joy, what you live for me because I can't have that privilege anymore. What do you think about Kamuza writer?

1:25:28I don't like his novels at all. Or you don't at all. Yeah. You've talked shit about the plague to me. Yeah. I think the book is pointless. Fasting. Because all you need to do is read the synopsis and then you get it. Like I don't think it's not true for most books. No. I mean, like you could take I don't know. I just don't agree at all. There I mean it's it's catcher in the eye. There's a lot of books that are seem trivial. I don't think it seems trivial. But I think animal form animal form is a methodical step by step examination of a transformation from one thing to another. The plague is not that.

1:26:04It's a methodical examination of what a society is like under the plague, which could symbolize a lot of things, including the plague directly or Nazi Germany or ideological movements or it's it's similar to animal farm, maybe not as effective in terms of using this kind of symbology. I think animal farm has a narrative and I'm going to spoil the whole plague, the book, the plague. Okay. There's a town I believe in Oman, a plague descends, people struggle to deal with it and the plague vanishes as quickly as it came the end. Yeah, but there's the victims, the people that take advantage of it. There's the doctor that emits the absurdity and evil of the plague is fighting to do good.

1:26:52Nothing for me. Nothing. Okay, well I guess we'll animal farm. There's uh uh pigs, there's animals at a farm and they the humans are abusing them and then the animals overthrow the humans, but then the pigs become just like the humans. The lesson kids is that uh power corrupts no matter whether you walk on four or on two. I thought the lesson was that pigs are the most human like animals on the farm. I thought the I thought the lesson was that there's no sugar candy mountain. That's right. Yeah. You've interviewed a lot of people. Yeah. What have you learned about getting to the soul of a person, the soul of an idea from interviewing?

1:27:44Just how to do a good interview. First of all, not interviewing just random people, interviewing people who are accomplished, it's not a random group that's self -selecting for something different, but I think that people love to and this is very understandable, love to feel seen. So if you're someone who's done something even if you're like the best getting a pig breeder in America to have someone interested in your work and ask and listen to what you're saying, because I remember every book I've written, you know, I have friends and I wouldn't stop talking about, you know, the the the person I'm writing with or, you know, the North Korea.

1:28:19And at a certain point, I'm sure they're like, I don't care if there's any more, but like it takes over your brain, you know what I mean? So if you have someone who has an interest or a hobby, I'm sure some extent maybe your friends or family are sick of talking about it or you don't want to talk about with them, you want to have that's the private life where you can just be yourself. So I try to and this comes from my co -authoring background when I'm talking to people to ask the questions that they haven't heard before. There's a possibility that this actor, I'm a huge fan of, it's going to be on my show.

1:28:53I don't want to spoil everything. And he's got a very specific role that he's known for. And I know I'm going to, I'm like, okay, I'm going to, I know it's going to be annoying for you talking about this one role, but my goal is to ask questions that haven't you have aren't sick of answering, I'm having been asked. Point star or not a point star. That joke failed also. Add it out. What do you know about breeding guinea pigs? You mentioned it. I'd love to hear, I don't know anything. I'd love to hear more about it. This is, I always use this as an example. I said there's, there's, you, you meet someone a party who breeds guinea pigs, right?

1:29:30There's two approaches. Either you're weird, get it okay, or sit down and tell me everything. And I'm very much, and all the people I like are the second group. When you meet someone who's doing something unusual and are passionate about it and, you know, are good at it, like that to me is the mother load. Yeah, that to me also is a thing I enjoy the most. It's like, because people that are passionate about it. Who do you guys hate? Do you guys hate the hamster people? Do you hate the rabbit people? There's got to be someone that you guys look down on. Because like the marine aquarium people look down the freshwater aquarium people.

1:30:06Yeah, it's a hierarchy. Yes, there's always going to be a hierarchy. This is where the left anarchists and I disagree because they think you can have gallotarianism. There's going to be a hierarchy. Haraki's emerge. Yes. There's no anarchy in the guinea pig world. No, it's just a different kind of anarchy. Somebody's always breeding somebody else. Yes. And looking down on the others. If someone's the other. Yeah, whether it's the hamster people, the rat people, and everybody's breeding. Yeah. By the way, are you an archivist? What kind of what flavor of anarchists are you? I'm an anarchist without adjectives.

1:30:42I like them all. The black flag comes in many colors. All right. All right. You're quoting you. You had no understanding. It was as a beautiful line in the book. Thank you. I think the anarcho -capitalists don't give the left anarchists enough credit, especially for their courage. And I do whatever I can in my power to talk about people like Emma Goldman, whenever possible. Do you still think that are some people better than others? Is it a good litmus test? Yes. It's worked 100 % of the time. And for you, the answer is yes. I never answered. There's two of them.

1:31:24They're what are you getting a hitchcock up in here? Oh, hey, careful. I always got your back.

1:31:35What little habits in your life make you happy? Not that you're an Austin. Oh, my God.

1:31:45I was prepping for this interview. And I imagine this coming up. And I knew that as I explain this, you know how sometimes or someone tells a story like at first it's amusing. Then it's amusing and concerned. And they're like, holy shit. Like, where's the exit? Yeah. I'm getting nervous already. You should. So I'm going to tell you something I've told only a couple of people. This is my absolutely off the charts. Autistic approach to shaving. So I have this insane system. You asked me how it's like going to draw. I used to hate shaving. You said there's something called wet shaving. So what shaving is you get the brush, you get the soap that's in a canister, you stir it up, you paint your face, and then you shave.

1:32:48The thing is there are dozens of these shaving soap companies. So I tried a couple of hundred of these soaps because you're testing for scent, you're testing for with the leather thickness, and also how smooth the shave it gives you. Yeah. I have it down. I'm not making this stuff. I'm not this creative. I haven't down to a cycle of 67 soaps. Yeah. Okay. So a cycle. So 67. Yeah. When I use up one soap, that is a slot that I will have to try new ones. And I will try new ones in that slot until I get one that I like, and then that slot is filled. So right now I have 67 that I use, and I have 86 candidates like in the queue.

1:33:47Yeah. In the queue. Do you label them? Do you remember like which one is which? Well, they all have beautiful labels. I mean, these are artisans who are creating these amazing things. So they're, I would encourage everyone to try this hobby. Who's a guy? It's so much fun. I will give a shout out to the companies that are the best. So the best company in my opinion is company called they just changed the name. Because you know what they're originally called. I'm not joking. Yeah. Gruming department. And now it's like. Yeah, but it has certain connotations in different things. So now he temporary this course.

1:34:23He changed the name to Ion Skincare AION. That's the the sense of the most sophisticated, the most diverse, and the soap is just really high quality. Another amazing company is Barrister and Man. And if I'm going to tell you to try one, it's called Cheshire. He comes out with new ones every month or so. A lot of its myths, a lot of its hit. Just great, great quality stuff. Another great company is Chisels Face. They make something called Midnight Stagg, which basically smells like a garage. It's one of my favorite soaps of all time. What makes for good smell for Michael Mouth? I have 67 answers.

1:35:02So someone that can smell into some more citrusy, some are industrial, some for garage is more industrial. It smells like a garage. Yeah. Midnight Stagg is supposed to garage. Some are fun because there smells that smell like other things. For example, there's a scent in my queue called Finding Scotty. It smells like Swedish fish. Another great company is Phoenix shaving. And they have one called Aloha Smackdown. Smells like a wine punch. They had one called You will ham that they made from you special smells like a ham. They had a ramen one, rock and ramen. Smells like cup of noodles. So they're great.

1:35:38And every year, they do an advent calendar where you for 12 days, you have a little sample of a soap and a sample of the aftershave. So those are, I'm forgetting someone and I'm feeling angry that I'm doing it. But those are some of the, oh, and Katie's bubbles is great. They're vegan. I don't know Jersey. They've got one called Nihaito grape. Smells like grape soda. I think those are the biggest names off the top of my head. Well, that list converged down to a small set eventually or no. What's it? 67 down to. Well, though, it's down to, it's 67. Oh, so it always keeps. Right. So there's a slot.

1:36:17Then, you know what I mean? Like I'll fill that. So you will forever have the variety of 67. Yes. Huh. You know, you know what? You know how sad my brain is when you were telling me this, I was like, I wonder how many soaps are left in my commouses life. Like you can count your life by days, by months, by years, or by soaps. That is depressing. That is one of dark because each, each experience of shaving is a little beautiful experience. Yes, it is. How many do you have left in your life? That's true. Yeah. I got to tell you there's something else. There's a term called my friend Jackie, what they call touching pan.

1:36:58It's a makeup term. So basically when you use it and you can see the bottom, that's like a big moment. That's a great thing. Yeah, it's like, what's kind of fun? I'm telling you, like people can scoff. It is such a fun. And there's a lot of us online who are into this whole space. It's really, really fun. When you first discover this, can I curse? Yeah. Fuck you, Cole Striker. Because I was staying in my friend Cole's house in LA. Fuck you, Cole. Fuck you, Cole. Cole is like one of the biggest hipsters I know. He's got the shirts with the pearl snaps and everything. And I'm staying in his house because I was doing Rogan.

1:37:35And he goes, oh, have you heard of this wet shaving thing? And he goes, look, this one's perrezo. That's the Italian grandpa soap, which is also a great one. And I went down this rabbit hole. And I'm like, I don't even know how much money I spent on this. And it's all because of him. Oh, but it's like a happy fuck you. Like fuck you, Cole. Yeah, you know, I love you, Cole. Fuck you. Yeah, it's just. Thank you. Yes. That's a good idea for tattoo. Fuck you, Cole. You have advice and I'll be happy. Yes. There's a lot of loneliness and sadness in the world. Here, I can give a very easy piece of advice that worked a lot for me.

1:38:18Instead of telling yourself that you have these ridiculous standards, tell yourself, I can be better. Right? I don't have to be a great writer. I can be a better writer. I don't have to be a great podcaster. That will never happen. I could be a better podcaster. I could be a better person. I could be a better at the gym. I could be better with my time. And when you regard things in, and especially if you have metrics that you can go by, you know, for example, I'll run this many miles a day. Things you have control over. If you, especially as males, when you have this chart and the data is telling you you're improving, right away, it's like you have the sense of accomplishment.

1:39:05So I if something is not working your life, let's suppose you don't have friends, right? There's the internet. How do people make friends? Try things out. What's the worst that's going to happen? You're going to blow up on your face? Well, you're you're you're learned something at least. Don't be afraid of making mistakes. When I was a kid, I was so scared of having things under control. So like I would never have to get hit in the face better for workly. And then I realized and you realized this as well. Everyone who's important gets hit in the face. Look at the president, whoever the president is.

1:39:37It becomes a matter of being strong enough that you could take getting hit in the face. So that is a big important switch in your thinking. Yeah, there's a Bukowski quarter row down. Sometimes you climb out of bed in the morning and you think I'm not going to make it. But you laugh inside remembering all the times you felt that way. Yeah. Yeah. There's a part of me that's like that. There's some days where I feel like this is the worst day of my life. And then like shortly after I think like chuckle at that. Yes. Just knowing the ups and downs of the brain and the mind and life and all that. Have you ever been depressed?

1:40:13Yeah, of course. I'm more anxious than depressed. I don't really get depressed. Yeah, but I've been depressed. Like low points. Yeah. But I think I distinguished depression between low points. Right? Like if things are going bad and you feel bad, that makes sense. But I when I think of depression, I think of someone who feels bad when things aren't bad. Like it's it's by to me, it's like almost by definition irrational. Well, yeah, and there's different kinds of I like there's a exhaustive kind of depression where you're not right. It's not so much sad is you're not don't want to do anything. You don't want to live.

1:40:49You don't want to what's the yeah, what's the point? What's the point? Yeah. And like an extreme self critical negativity, which I'm also scared of because my brain is generally very self critical because you're not taking a magnesium. Do you take it right till you're in the mouth? You take it right. Okay. But as for the as for the magnesium, you should take it as a pill. Okay. What the way your mom explained it then is is way different.

1:41:15What are you most afraid of?

1:41:28I Holy crap. That's this I I'm trying to think of anything of a frat of you know in 1984 with the I thought like even just if I wanted to torture you hypothetically. Well, you do well. They should accomplish. You know what I mean, I mean in terms of I'm scared of increasing authoritarianism, but that's not personal. And that's not that's something that I don't think is as much of an imminent concern as like let's say in Canada. Are you scared of death? No. I think I'm scared of death. No. He just accepted it as it's look I can I honestly feel like if I died tomorrow, I did pretty good with what I had.

1:42:13Like I think I did things that matter to me. I think I moved the needle on things that matter to me. I think I've been a good friend to the people I care about. I've saved a couple of lives. So I can I think it's a very low bar for someone to be able to grow their grave and say, you know, I left the world a better place than I found it. I don't think it's that hard. You ever been betrayed? Oh god, yes. Of course, haven't you? Not as often as I would have predicted. Yeah, the Russian upbringing, like it's like expects everyone to be like just it's a time bomb before the betray you happen. But trade, of course, yeah.

1:42:57Yeah. You value loyalty. I do. And I also made it a point to not let that betrayal color my future interactions and regard that as the universal or the norm. Yeah. I think that's very important to me too. And also I feel bad. I've gotten lex enough that I feel bad for the person who betrayed me because it's just like they didn't need to do this. And at some point, if you betray someone, you know, and you know, you're not a good person. I believe that. Yeah. Like even if you tell yourself there's something I had to do, you still know you had to do a bad thing to someone who didn't deserve it. And that's a really hard pill to swallow.

1:43:43In my situation, I still think good thoughts and empathize with the people that have done me wrong. I don't empathize with them, but I sympathize with them. My English is not good enough to know the difference. Empathizing means you're putting yourself on their shoes, sympathizing means you feel bad for them and wish them well.

1:44:06Yeah, I wish them well. Yeah, but I don't put my it's very hard for me to empathize with someone who betrays someone that they care about. Because that is something it's not that just I think I'm such a great person. It's that I feel guilt very strongly. So if I did that to someone who trusted me, I would really it would fuck up my head for a long time. Yeah, but maybe they weren't paying. Maybe they were desperate. Maybe sure, to the wall. Sure. They felt that sure. Well, that's a sympathy thing and I really never think. Yeah. Yeah. Willities are fascinating. Yes, I value trust a lot. I know you do.

1:44:48Especially because you're such a public both of us. You know, very public positions. You have to be very careful who you surround yourself with. It sucks. Does it? Well, it sucks because it's hard to you.

1:45:03I usually just trust everybody. That's okay. That's crazy. But what's the alternative to be have a filter? Well, I have a filter in terms of who I interact with. Okay. But within the, you know, I see the good in people. But then you're in the in the very rare instances that might turn. Okay. And yeah, it just sucks. It breaks my heart. Yeah. I hear you. I completely agree. Has your heart ever been broken? Yes. Love? Yes.

1:45:41I'm just so relaxed right now. Good. Good. Relaxing and happy. Good. This is making me really happy. It's so again, it's beautiful in like eight different levels. I think that's the deepest thing. I'm thankful for. It's just how beautiful people are. How beautiful the world is. I really and people are going to laugh and I welcome it. That's fine. I really sometimes feel like the guy in American beauty looking at the plastic bag dancing in the wind. And he's brought to tears because of how much beautiful life is. And a lot of people feel they need to sneer at that scene and Ricky Ricky pits whatever.

1:46:23And I think he's got it exactly right. I think he does too. Well, in the end, you and I will be both laughing. That's exact and right. And also seeing beauty where other people see garbage. And I'd rather be the person who sees beauty than the person who sees garbage. Yep. Well, when I look at you, I see beauty. And most people see garbage. And it's really unfair, Mr. Parrot, that you keep saying that. But all jokes aside, man, I'm really grateful for your friendship. And I'm really grateful for you as a person. Thank you so much for talking today. Thank you so much for talking to me throughout all these years.

1:47:08Thank you for being who you are. You are welcome. Thanks for listening to this conversation with Michael Malis. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now let me leave you with some words from Andre Guide. Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.