'Would you not just go and steal a baby?'

19:38Anna Williamson:Oh. What have you done? Oh. Imogen, we tend to align on our unpopular opinions, Emma. You didn't like the oat milk thing either as well. well let's throw it over to you Imo do you have one or are you passing this week I'm gonna pass pass let's throw it over to you guys because you have been joining in we love this there was it I said what I said teenage dirtbag is the worst song ever written cause I'm just a teenage dirtbag I actually it's a bit dirgy I like that song I like it I'm with you I'm not that crazy don't agree this one 100 % agree love this one fucking hate baby showers as a waste of time.

20:17Absolutely. They are. It's just annoying. Next one. Oh! You're not going to agree with this.

20:24Anna Williamson:I could not more vehemently disagree with this in my life. Someone has said they hate roast dinners. Do you know what? I make a mean roast dinner and I don't hate roast dinners, but I could definitely live without them. Oh, I couldn't. I actually couldn't live without a roast dinner. I don't like Lorraine Kelly. Someone has said they don't like Lorraine Kelly. National Trash. National Trash. Next one. I do not agree with this. I said what I said. Someone has said, truffle should be banned in restaurants. It smells awful and makes your breath gross. Lou loves a bit of truffle. Love truffle. Cold beans are better than warm.

20:57No. I do eat beans out of the can. Yeah, I would have them cold. Do you? Is it a can or a tin?

21:04Anna Williamson:Tin can. Tin of beans. It's a tin can, yeah. Tin of beans. Okay, next one. Oh, this is interesting. I said it. someone says we shame bogey eaters too much no bogey eating guys someone said I love global warming I need England to be hotter I'm with you on this I like global warming too do you know what actually I've got something to add global warming doesn't exist are we moving into conspiracy theory just saying I had an interesting conversation with someone a couple of years ago and what he said made a lot of sense and now I question whether global warming exists okay okay and also can i just say another unpopular opinion fucking hate green energy oh no it's bullshit okay green energy is an absolute farce okay your theory behind that is you need to research it so what is your research well because you in order to make the green energy you have to use normal energy which burns like fossil fuels well I guess that wouldn't make sense, yeah.

22:09I don't know anything about it. It's like a farcical thing. It's like a unicorn in the sky, green energy. Like the batteries, for instance, that go in Teslas and stuff are so un-eco-friendly. It's unbelievable. I will very, very willingly do a little education deep down on this because I don't know. I like this one. And also, all these fucking corporates that have their fucking green days and all that shit. E-corp. that it's just bullshit though. It's just bullshit. But who are they trying to appeal to? Like, who are they trying to appease? It's absolute bollocks, I'm telling you. Global warming, bollocks.

22:50E-energy, green energy, load of old shit. Green energy, green energy. And my husband owns an energy company. He's looked into green. He does do green, I think. It's a load of shit.

23:01Anna Williamson:This is why this feature is a joy, because opinions are all welcome here. The next one we have is a matcha is awful. A taste of grass. Yes, I agree. I agree. I agree. Oh, it's repulsive. Next one is what, Lou? A hike is a form of torture. Well, it really is in a way. If you think about when they train you for the army and stuff. Depends what hike. And they're training like resilience and pushing through and mental strength. Do you know what? You're right. A hike is torture. a walk is pleasant a hike is a bit too much hard work for me that involves that conjures up backpacks and boots not here for that the last one absolutely love this one so true no one cares about your kids half birthday can I say no one cares actually about your kids birthday no one gives a shit I don't give a shit about your kids birthday I don't know I just you do you huns but it's too many people to remember love that so I said it and I said it what's it called again I said what I said I said what I said.

24:06Anna Williamson:Send in yours. Any that you've got, send them in. Yeah. Right, it's time for... It's the record circle. The record circle. It's the record circle. Bam, bam, bam. Right, I need to get mine up. Yeah, do you know what? I need to get mine up. Will I do mine? Yes. Yes, and I've got mine ready now. Okay. Mine is a company called The Workbench. They are a jewellery company whereby they send you out a kit and you basically design and sculpt your own ring or pendant or something like that. And then you send it off and then they make it for you. So Naomi for Christmas got me a kit to make a ring and she did an add-on to it.

24:47So I made this ring and I put on it...

24:50Anna Williamson:Oh, she's holding up this rather massive ring. It's quite large. If you took a punch to the face with that, you'd knock out. The middle one. Anyway, and on it, I got a little bit of wax and I booped it on Norman's nose and I have an imprint of his nose. And you can do it on like, you can get your children's thumb prints or fingerprints or whatever, or you can get your dog's paw prints or nose prints or whatever. And it was really fun. Like one afternoon, I just sat there and they give you a big like wax thing and you file it down, you cut it down, you use a little knife to like whittle it away.

25:22And then booped it, sent it off. A couple of weeks later, they sent it back. And it was just really nice. I've seen actually. This little doggy nose jewellery. And I thought that was very cute. I've never heard of it.

25:36Anna Williamson:And I think it's quite sweet, really. What is his company then? A couple of companies do it, but I use the workbench. So, okay, the workbench. Spenny? I don't know, it was a gift. It was a gift. So I imagine it's not like super... Not super Spen. Spen, but not super cheap. But like as a gift, nice keep-take type thing. You always want something at least mid-range, I think, for jewellery, don't you? You can do like... I know, if you're getting like a grandparent or something. Oh, no. Do not be sending your grandparent a mould of your vagina. A grandparent, like your kid's thumbprint or something, or you could get your grandparent's thumbprint or something to remember them by or something like that.

26:12Oh, that is really nice. You could have done that for dead Nana in the hospital bed as she lay there dead.

26:17Anna Williamson:You'd have taken her fingerprints, couldn't I? I miss my dead Nana. I've got something for Nanny, my other Nanny that died. I have a necklace that we created before she died. No, she does. Well, she said, I want you to remember me with something. You know, often I wear those gold interlinking loops. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My nan got me that. That's awesome. She sent off, she didn't like some piece of gold jewelry my granddad had bought her years ago. She didn't like it. So she sent it off and got it melted down and then made me a necklace instead. Brilliant. Well, that's good. Nice one, nan. Recycle, reuse.

26:47Anna Williamson:It was bloody weighty, lovely piece of gold. My Recoseco is a podcast this week. I discovered this a few weeks ago, actually. It's a bit dark. But I don't know if you listened to it, Lou, but it's called BBC Podcast. So BBC Podcast, it's World of Secrets is the sort of overarching brand. So it has, I think it's like 12 or so series, but that's kind of the overarching brand. It's done by investigators, PIs, that kind of thing. So BBC, World of Secrets. And the series that I was listening to was called The Darkest Web. so it's a deep dive on um uncovering pedophar rings i saw they do a tv documentary of it yes yes so it's done by so it's um narrated by uh and hosted by two cid uh or i don't know quite what they're like police people police people investigative guys i mean how they do the work i don't know and what they do is essentially um you know how we've talked about kind of the dark web you know how we've often said as well well what is it how do you get on it and they is it is it tour or i think it uh this does ring a bell to me so so so all of those questions that we've often said about how do you actually access it you know like what is it how does it work um they explain that they explain exactly how it works how you get into it how it gets covered up all of the kind of um just all down to you know locating ip and how they cover their tracks and things like that and essentially what they do is um they look for children who are being abused on these sites these paedophile rings these paedophile websites you know how we've often talked about some of these more mainstream sites are like you masking undercover child trafficking when we talked about wayfair yeah and they're actually children well we don't know but they're saying now that tiktok and allegedly and allegedly tips so there are some of these bigger brands allegedly people are thinking, are they kind of a smokescreen for more undercover, underground activity?

28:53Anna Williamson:And so what they do is they take literally nothing other than, this particular series, it was a child that they saw up on. I did listen to this. Yeah, multiple pornographic websites. That's it. I have listened to it. So they had nothing to go on other than a brick wall and a bedspread and they then go into how they discover and find this one child in the whole of the US. Yeah, I did listen to this. And I don't want to spoil it for you. It's pretty disturbing. I listen driving to Holland. It's quite triggering, but it's fascinating if you want to understand the inner workings of how these investigations happen.

29:31Anna Williamson:It was amazing, actually, how they found... And the undercover kind of world in the paedophile ring. So it is a hard listen. And I think I've also watched the show of it because I remember them looking at the pattern of the bedspread in that little town. and then when I listened to it I thought I have seen this before. And the brick wall and they located the bricks and the houses and everything else. And they went to the brick specialist. That's it to locate the people. So anyway it's called The World of Secrets The Darkest Web BBC Podcast. I think it's called pretty much the same thing on iPlayer if you want to watch it as well.

30:02Anna Williamson:Perfect, perfect, perfect. So that's my record. Okay, mine is also I don't know if I've record this already The Crash on Netflix. No, you haven't. No, it was in our notes. I've seen this. So it's on Netflix It's been out for probably about a month now. It's called The Crash. Very good documentary. It's about essentially a teenage girl and she crashes her car with her boyfriend and another friend in it. They die. She survives. And it essentially asks the questions, did she do it on purpose? Or was the crash accidental? So I've seen that flagging up in You Might Like to Watch. You Would Like to Watch.

30:43Yeah, it's a very good watch. It's really good. So watch it and then we can have a little Netflix discussion. Love that. So three very different recos. You are welcome, New Fanians. All right, messages, shall we? We've got Meet the Celeb from Steve. Says, hello, ladies. First time emailing in and straight man fan. Hello. Plus got my fiancé hooked on you girls. So much so she now cuts me off if I call her when she was driving on a Monday and Thursday. Thursday? Thursday when she listens to your pods rather than speaking to me. Anyway, sit back and get ready for a story that only suits your pocket.

31:17Oh, go on. For several years, I was part of the medical team at Chatsworth Country Fair, which is a three-day event at Chatsworth House in Derbyshire. And it's a stunning venue at the best of times. The Country Fair is always three days in early September. Friday, Saturday and Sunday attracts around 30 ,000 people a day. They've got a cooking stone, a huge 500-seater marquee with a stage and TV screens. And they had top celebrity chefs each day to cook to the huge crowds. this particular year, with the Friday being Mary Berry, the Saturday was James Martin, and finally the Sunday was the Hairy Bikers.

31:51This story is from 2019, where I had pictures with Mary Berry and James Martin. However, I wanted to make it a full house with a picture of the Hairy Bikers on the Sunday.

32:00Anna Williamson:Oh, Dave was my friend. He passed away. After the Hairy Bikers had finished cooking in the Cooking Zone Marquis, I met them at the back, as you can see. Telling them I'd met Mary Berry and James Martin and meeting them was the full house I wanted over the weekend. The Harry Bikers, being Cy and Dave, and sadly Dave not being here anymore, he lost his battle to cancer in 2024, they were extremely nice and funny, just like on TV. Lovely. Cy then asked me if I also got a picture with Alan Titwank in the Gardening Marquee, similar to The Cooking Zone, but Alan was booked every day, being the god of gardening TV excellence.

32:34They carried on telling me they called Alan Titmatch that to his face and he finds it funny. This then led to a bizarre conversation with the hairy bikers about titwanks Which gets more bizarre as one of our nurses from the medical centre nurse Jodie was also there and she joined the conversation About said titwanks with the hairy bikers Safe to say, since that moment Alan Titchmas have always been and will always be Alan titwank to me Rest in peace Dave you hairy biker legend Don't keep me an on Steve from Norfolk

33:06Anna Williamson:And there he is with them Which one's Dave? Dave's on the right In the yellow shirt Well up with tears Yeah Cy in particular Is a bit of a naughty boy Oh really He's a bit minxy I've met Cy several times as well You can see that one looks naughty Cy I always quite fancy Dave and Lil So Lil is my friend as well Dave's wife You know And she's actually a life coach as well But Dave Dave is an extraordinary Well was an extraordinary man And when Alex lost his dad I'll always be so grateful to him Because I was in panto with Dave and it was the same way that Alex died in an accident and he was just the kindest, kindest man.

33:46Anna Williamson:Like him and Lil just swooped me and Alex up with this chaotic moment and just looked after us for just three months. And honestly, I get a lump in my throat when I think about Dave passing. You'll never forget him. Never forget Dave and Lil is an absolute legend too. Lovely story. It's really nice to hear that as well. And yeah, Si's really naughty. Right, message from Anonymous. So Winnie De Porking. Winnie De Porking. Winnie De Porking. Is that you again? That's my favourite. That's my favourite. Dave would have loved that one. He'd have loved that one. Hiya, ladies. Love the pod and all that jazz.

34:22Anna Williamson:Now, I'm looking for some fellow Lufanian light at the end of the tunnel stories, I guess. Backstory is, I have been with my other half for eight, nearly nine years. Met him on a dating app and wasn't overly interested, but he persisted and eventually I gave in. He moved in very quickly after about six months. A year later, we were engaged and pregnant. After about two years of planning to leave him, then deciding to stay, then planning to leave him, but deciding to stay, last night I finally told him I'm not happy and it's not working anymore. I feel awful. He's such a nice guy, but he's just not the right guy for me.

34:55Anna Williamson:I love him, but I'm not in love with him and I don't align with the way he speaks to our children and he's very angry at times, although he has never laid a finger on me. I know deep down this is the right choice for me and my girls, but I am so emotional about it all. I keep looking at the daughter we have together and thinking, oh my God, I'm about to turn your little world as you know it upside down. And then I cry. I'm only 32 and I have my whole life ahead of me. But my worry is I will never find anyone else down the line. Two children, two different fathers, surely not much of a catch. No, you mustn't think that, babe.

35:26Anna Williamson:I'm also super worried about the financial strain this will have on me going into a single income home, which is what's been keeping me to stay for so long. but I finally decided to put my own happiness first I don't really know what I'm looking to gain by writing in but maybe a fellow Lufanian who has been here and can reassure me that everything is going to be okay maybe you guys can tell me that I've made the right decision love you girls and all you do you definitely have made the right decision it sounds like this has been years in the making for you which has been years of happiness and or lost happiness and actually I just think you're 32 like of course you're gonna meet someone else like it's there's no way you're not like and a lot of people think that when you break up and you've got kids and you think oh he's gonna want me with these kids in this baggage but you do like you do meet other people and honestly I just um such a big like fly the flag of put put your happiness first and the whole financial thing honestly I would rather have less and be happy and everything it sounds cliche but I really do believe that everything works out in the end it really really does can I flip that and say let's say you don't meet someone but trust me it's far better to be happy on your own than be in a substandard relationship and I think to Lou's point there's absolutely every possibility you will meet somebody but at the same time and I speak to people this all the time in the in the dating relationships world and i get it so many people stay in relationships and marriages because it's such a huge change financially there's a lot of consideration especially with children i was talking to someone even yesterday um a friend of mine who's going through a divorce and suddenly they're just thinking oh my gosh i'm about to just rip this whole family apart like their family unit and it's it's really weighing on her now but she's not happy you know she's not happy and you know he's not a dick but they're just not happy with each other and it's really difficult But you said a few things there that absolutely are red flags and you can't change that.

37:23Anna Williamson:If you don't like some of his mannerisms, there is obviously some fear around that or training on eggshells or you're not comfortable with how he behaves at times verbally just because he hasn't hit you. It doesn't mean that his behavior is is OK. And it's far better to be happy on your own with your children. I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but then being in an unhappy relationship. And dare I say it, one that's not even safe. I think it is easier being on your own than being in a situation like this. But you do have to be happy and content with yourself first anyway before you go on to meet somebody else.

37:52Anna Williamson:You don't remember we shouldn't be in life. We need to want to be with somebody, not need to be with somebody. At the moment, it sounds like, and I get it because you're feeling insecure and vulnerable, quite rightly. But I think your motivation is a need. It's a crutch. It's a, oh, my goodness, I feel so vulnerable. I need somebody else. You don't need somebody else. You want somebody else. So that's ideally where we need to get to. And what that comes from is really focusing on you and your girls first. It's not going to be easy. Lou's been through divorce. We've all been through relationship breakdowns.

38:20Anna Williamson:They are horrible and they are wrenching. But trust me, focus on the end goal. You come out stronger on the other side. You do. Trust me. Focus on the end goal. Yeah. We've got another message now from a non. So Kitty Meow Meow. This is going to be about a vag, isn't it? Hey, beautiful ladies. I need to start by saying just how much I love the pod and all that jazz. I can't help but think of that woman when I hear that. Can we just do a public service announcement? That woman, four years ago. I think her name was Danielle. Danielle. Yes, it was. Who said that she cannot stand the, and are that jazz.

38:49Anna Williamson:Danielle, did you actually switch off or are you secretly listening? Can we find her? We need to find her. I'm a busy mum of two and I look forward to my precious time each week. Headphones in, of course. I can ignore my kids and belly laugh with you both. I have just had the most mortifying experience of my life and I knew just who to share it with. I take one of my darling children swimming every week. It's a great set up in a private residence. gorgeous pool house in the garden and all very lovely. It's one of those heated pools, perfect for baby and toddler swimming lessons and quite intimate.

39:20Everyone gets to know everyone and you smile politely, say hi to the groups before you and after you. The one downside of this delightful setup is that the changing cubicles are a little on the small side and they are situated right next to the pool. Once you finish your lesson, you have a quick rinse in the poolside shower, go to your allocated cubicle to get changed whilst the next lesson begins. It's like a one group in, one group out job. The curtains on the changing cubicle are quite thin, a bit flimsy, but do the job to shield you as you wrestle your clammy self and toddler back into your clothes.

39:50There's nothing worse, is there, than trying to put clothes on after you get swimming, unless you're a giant, clumsy twat like me. I always get myself dry and dressed first, whilst my little girl sits on the tiny bench, nattering away to me. I just stripped off my swimming costume and picked up my towel to wrap around myself. We use those lightweight, quick-dry towels, great for swimming, as they pack away quite small, but they're made of a fabric that clings a bit. Oh, yes. Unbeknownst to me, the fabric of my towel made contact with the flimsy curtain, and as I stretched my arms out to wrap around the towel, the curtain was dragged open with it.

40:21I was then stood, arms out wide, facing the pool full of children and their parents completely fucking naked. Tits and vag for all to see. I'd also fake down my legs at the weekend to match my somewhat suntanned arms, but that meant that my legs were golden, probably a bit orange, and my belly and boobs were whiter than the fucking snow. I looked like a slightly doughy ginger zebra. My daughter, then quick as fucking lightning, shrieked with laughter, realising what had happened, and every single person in the pool snapped their heads around to look at me. To make matters worse, I panicked, tried to grab hold of the curtain, tried to shut it as fast as I could, unwrapped my towel on my neck herself all at the same time, which resulted in me stumbling, falling out the cubicle, onto the poolside, few gas and shock from everyone.

41:06I was so mortified that I nearly cried on the spot. I have never managed to get dressed so quickly and practically dragged my daughter out of the pool house without making eye contact with anyone. Obviously, I can never go back. I'm going to have to put my house on the market, ready to move to a different town immediately. The shame. Please keep me on so I might maintain a shred of dignity. Love you, ladies. Keep doing what you're doing. Every parent has a traumatic swimming pool story. It's just constant.

41:37Anna Williamson:It's constant. I do. I take the kids swimming as well every week. And it's with that bloody heat wave as well. And honestly, the amount of times my kids do that, rub open the curtain. There's nothing more embarrassing than I said. I did it the other week. A gym I go to all the time where the pool is. I know the girls really well. I don't know if it is. But it's always when you know somebody who's fully clothed that comes in with their bag or to move the towel thing. And you're standing there butt naked trying to. Oh, it's the worst. Remember, if you want to get in touch, email us Luanna at everythingluanna.com or drop us a WhatsApp on 075 215 64640 Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun an army hung on her every word my champions I have sold my chariot on Carvana it was a lovely SUV an inexplicably queenly offer They're even coming to the castle to collect it.

42:38Anna Williamson:Tonight, we feast. An offer you can feast on. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees, mail, fly. Meet Morgan Jones. Morgan is about to step into a world unknown to most thanks to Progressive's renter's insurance, a place of fresh linens and turndown service. You see, Morgan temporarily vacated her apartment and has gone to a hotel because a pipe burst in her apartment, a pipe that made her sense of reality and apartment ceiling all come crashing down. Luckily, Morgan checked into Progressive's Protection Zone. Get a quote at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and third-party insurers.

43:19Right, it's time for Reco Seco Recap. The Seco Recap, Reco Seco Recap. Ba-dum-ba! You're welcome. Right, so instead of newsy stories, we're going to have a little chat around is that what we're doing? Yeah we are.

43:34Anna Williamson:A little deep dive guys a little deep dive because over the last few weeks and loads of you have been enjoying this as well some of our recos have involved things we have listened or watched. True. So we thought we would want to unpack it a little bit and because some of them We started didn't it around the birth keepers and how we enjoyed that we had a lovely chat around it we recode Sweet Bobby which was about a catfishing incident and Maternal Instinct, which was a Netflix documentary. Kind of whodunit. So we just need to debrief because we've not spoken to each other about it. Listen, if you'd rather not have the spoilers, if you haven't listened to Sweet Bobby, and if you haven't watched Maternal Instinct, then skip on.

44:17But if you have, then let's dive in. Let's start with Sweet Bobby. So Sweet Bobby is a podcast series. It then did become a Netflix doc about a woman called Kirat, who was in a relationship with a man called Bobby. They were in a relationship for nine years. It was then revealed that Bobby was not who he said he was. And in fact, Kira had been catfished for nine years, right, by her cousin Simran. It was discovered after Kira hired a private investigator to find Bobby. So she started having these suspicions, hires this private investigator, gets the address of Bobby, goes to Bobby's house, found out there is a real Bobby, but he had no recollection or knowledge of their relationship.

45:04Now, Simran was believed to be a friend in common between Kira and Bobby. Bobby was a cardiologist. Because he was real. He was real.

45:13Anna Williamson:As a person, he was totally real with his wife, Sanj. They had a little child. He was a totally real person. And she, Simran did know Bobby. Yes. Because Simran's boyfriend was Bobby's brother. That's right. And so Simran had this boyfriend and that boyfriend unfortunately died. And Bobby was that boyfriend's brother. And so when she went to find Bobby, it was all a bit weird because Bobby did know Simran. There was a connection through that. But she had never properly met Bobby. She just formed a relationship with him over social media with this connection, this link they had in common of Bobby's brother.

45:57Simran was basically fucking mental and created up to 60 different profiles. And these 60 profiles were made up of like Bobby's imaginary friends and his family, which kind of elaborated and built on her web of lies. It was even discovered that she was communicating as Bobby while she was with Kira. but they were on like Skype calls together. Yes, all night. They would Skype and leave it all night. And it says here,

46:25Anna Williamson:it must be noted that the creators of the Sweet Bobby podcast, which preceded the documentary, received the following statement from Simran's lawyers. This matter concerns a family dispute over events that began over a decade ago when I was a schoolgirl. As far as I'm concerned, this is a private family matter that has been resolved. I strongly object to the numerous unfounded and seriously defamatory accusations that have been made about me, as well as details of private matters that have been shared with the media. So that was what I said. So what I found interesting about this, and actually I must apologise, because me and my perimenopausal brain, I had watched this when you talked about it the other week.

47:04Anna Williamson:I don't think I've watched it. I think I've only listened. So it's podcast and documentary. And it wasn't until I went back, I thought, oh, I'm going to have a little watch of this first. Is it called Sweet Bobby? Sweet Bobby, yeah. And it's exactly the same. I might have to watch it. And it's brilliant. Well, brilliant, but obviously horrible. And I realised when I watched it quite a while ago, actually. And I had to re-watch it because it is so shocking. I can't believe I didn't even bring it to the pod, actually, back when I first saw it. Now, what I think interests me straight away from watching it, and I guess with my psychotherapist hat on, is this is a classic example of someone that gets preyed on in this catfishing term.

47:38Anna Williamson:because Kira, she sets the scene around... She had her shit together, didn't she? She was successful. Well, successful, but she really wanted a partner. And she talks about, particularly from the culture that she's in, I think they're a Sikh family. And she talks really about that pressure that she felt from her culture, wanting a baby, wanting marriage. This was something she so desperately wanted. And it's something that we hear so much here on the podcast, but also I hear in my private work as well, in that when you so desperately want something, you really do ignore the red flags that are glaring you in the eye because you are so caught up in the dopamine and the oxytocin and all these wonderful feel-good brain chemicals and hormones that you overlook any critical analysis.

48:25Anna Williamson:And this is exactly what happened. Well, I'm not being funny, right? But there's overlooking and then there's just being fucking stupid. I think Kirat's fucking stupid. I'm sorry but so this Bobby, just if you haven't listened to this chatting to this Bobby wants to meet up with Bobby then Bobby dies he gets shot and dies then Bobby comes back to life and is in witness protection and is now in New York and then whilst he's in New York recovering in the hospital he has multiple strokes and multiple heart attacks this is what's being told by the fake catfishing Bobby. She's like talking to these doctors which are all fake and all made up and believing all this stuff.

49:09She wants to go to New York or she does go to New York I think and you can't see her.

49:14Anna Williamson:Yeah so she travels to see him on various occasions and essentially all throughout there's years and years of this. For 10 years nearly. She never sees him. Until the end. She's never seen him and she's never even spoken to him. No what was weird is actually she was on a hendry. So the real Bobby lives in Brighton. She was on a hen do in Brighton like four months into when they were speaking and she sees Bobby like just randomly in this club. She goes over to Bobby, bearing in mind they've been speaking like a lot for the past four months. And they're all Facebook, how they've been communicating is Facebook Messenger.

49:49Anna Williamson:So, you know, the Facebook Messenger tab's permanently open and that's how they're talking. She goes up to Bobby and is like, oh my god, Bobby, it's Kerat. Hi, how are you? Bobby obviously has no fucking clue who Kira is because she's being catfished and he's like, what the fuck? Who are you? It's so confused. She doesn't think that's suspicious, right? What, in that moment? And then she just walks away, goes back to her hen do and just leaves Bobby there. Like, if that was me, I'd be like, dude, what the fuck? We've been speaking like every day. Like, what is wrong with you? He would have then been like, no, I haven't.

50:24And then it would be done. What the hell? And then it would have been done within that four months. Yeah. But 10 years later, I mean the whole thing she is one of the most stupid gullible like I'm sorry right then she's such a victim you know like shit happens to people she just keeps going on and on and on about it like she cannot move on past it and I feel bad for her for that but you know what you made your fucking bed she's an idiot I have no sympathy for her interesting like I actually don't

50:54Anna Williamson:yeah I think I haven't listened to the podcast I've just watched the show does she feature in the documentary? Yeah, she narrates the whole thing. So you're watching it all through her lens and him. And I think she's using it as well. Like she just keeps on talking about it, talking about it on the podcast, on this Netflix. She's definitely using it for like some kind of fame and notoriety. I think that's a really interesting point. I haven't really thought of it other than... Oh, she's infuriating. So when I watched it, I mean, she's clearly somebody that hook, line and sinker has not... I just don't know how you can be that stupid.

51:30Anna Williamson:Wanted to think anything other than what she was getting at face value. And I find that really interesting and quite challenging and also quite concerning when in the documentary, her parents feature who, again, she's introduced this guy, but again, just through messaging to her parents saying, I'm speaking to this guy. Again, I think the parents really happy that their daughter who's never had a boyfriend, they really wanted to get married. I think everyone was so happy to go along with this fabrication. For 10 years though, come on. I would be saying to you, after six months, Anna, come on. Absolutely.

52:06Like we need to have that. Absolutely meet him. It was like all these enablers of stupidity around her. I was actually like shouting at the speaker in the lorry. That's so interesting. I didn't feel angry watching it.

52:17Anna Williamson:I just think, I say, you can genuinely, when you watch, you just go, how on earth has somebody not twigged? twigged i mean i mean as you say you haven't seen this person ever when you skype him he says he can't speak because his voice has gone yeah so you are listening to literally silence on skype and as you say i think from a rational disassociative position you obviously watch it listen to it and go this is absolutely nuts this is chaos this is ridiculous but when she presents you're right there There is quite a victim mentality around her. She's such a victim. But then I guess on the flip side, I mean, you know me, I'll always look at something from all different angles.

52:57Anna Williamson:And she is somebody so entrenched in a form of coercive control that I guess if she's never had any other reference point and everybody else around her is enabling this, to your point, if nobody's actually gone like we would, we'd be like, this is fucking rat shit, dude. Like, let me get on that Skype. Let me call this out. and I'm going to literally give you a tick box to decipher if this is someone that's real or not. But I think she had nobody around her that was doing that and her cousin had created such a sophisticated web of community that she didn't think to question it. I think I kind of agree with both of you.

53:35I think it's kind of wild. Like, it is mad that it went on for 10 years and no one questioned it. That's the challenge I have with it. But at the same time. The length of time. I'm not sure you would ever, I think also because this happened quite a while ago when, I don't think catfishing was so much of it. It wasn't, and I think this is it. So I'm not sure you would ever think, you know what, this isn't right and someone has made this up and someone has made up over 60 other personalities to keep this whole thing alive. It's a lot to get your head around. Okay, for six or nine months, push it to a year.

54:08For ten years, guys, come on. And a lot changed within the media and between that and... The time is when I'm with you.

54:17Anna Williamson:But I think for any family member, for any parent, and I did feel a bit sorry for the dad, like the elderly couple that were on it, and he was like, I didn't know what catmishing men are on that. But then, as you say, when I've been married, we've been married about as long as this would have been going on for. At some point in that time, your family are, what the hell is going on? Honestly, she's stupid, and she just keeps going on and on about it, and I just feel like, do you know what, Kira? You need to live in the real world, shut your mouth, put it in a box and move the fuck on has she not then?

54:47well she just keeps banging on about it the documentary I suppose she's a bit well I'd be curious to know

54:53Anna Williamson:what she'd want to get out of it what was interesting in the documentary and also the way she talks annoyed me well Bobby and Sanj feature at the end and what I love what I love about Netflix one of these ones these whodunits is you've got all that story from that from that chronological order from that first person perspective walking you through the story and then as you say you get to three quarters in and then suddenly the real Bobby just walks into shot, sits down on the sofa and he's like, I'm Bobby. And then you've got Sanj, who's the wife you've been hearing about, who's been also part of the catfishing without her.

55:26Anna Williamson:And she's going, I've never met this woman in my entire life. And so you've heard all this narrative and then you've got them. And she turns up at their house. Yeah, turns up at their house and they're worried for their child. It's a fascinating watch and listen. So thank you, everyone that's joined in on that one. We'd love to know any of yours. maybe anyone knows Kira, I mean, or Bobby or Sand. We'd love to get any sort of third person perspective on that whole crazy story. And then the other one that we have been talking about and that Imo reco'd, she nicked it off me. I was going to reco it.

55:56Anna Williamson:No, it's a double reco, but it was bloody good for the reasons of it being horrendous. And we're just going to have a little trigger warning here as well, guys. We are going to talk about baby loss and baby harm here. So please do take care listening to this. So Maternal Instinct, this is again on Netflix. it's a documentary telling the story of Taylor Parker now Taylor is I believe the youngest woman I think now sitting on Texas death row after she was convicted of murdering her pregnant friend Reagan Simmons Hancock in 2020 I actually remember this in the news and cutting her unborn daughter Braxlin from her womb baby sorry yeah yeah so this is just all kinds of fucked up So what happened?

56:41Anna Williamson:So Taylor, let's just bring you into this. And Emma, you brilliantly set this scene up in the record second when you said the opening start of the documentary is she's a lady in a car. I've just given birth. There's the placenta in the baby, blood everywhere. The police are there. And she's like, I need to get to the hospital. She's a bit deranged. And then she gets to the hospital. They're like, this is a bit weird. The baby very, very sadly passed away. it was alive at first I think she was alive when she got to hospital and the baby died and the doctors then gave her an examination and they said this woman hasn't just given birth, there the dot dot dot starts, so a young woman she was in a relationship with a man named Wade Griffin they'd met at a rodeo in 2019 Parker has said she was oh yeah this was what was weird, she was just a massive liar, con artist she was the heir to the Blackburn syrup fortune and had a difficult relationship with her mother who tried to keep her away from the money.

57:37Anna Williamson:So she tried to purchase. This is how it all sort of starts, really. I mean, she's another, she's absolutely mental. Absolute lunatic. The delusional, you know, at best. A£4.7 million estate, sorry, while she and Wade were together. This sale, though, never went through. It's all this sort of to-ing and fro-ing around this never-ending, non-existent house sale. She also led Wade and everybody around them to believe that she was pregnant. She even threw this very bizarre gender reveal past you with some... Where she brought out a cow. Yeah, baby cows and stuff. The baby cow with like pink on it.

58:10Pink on it.

58:11Anna Williamson:Wade did not know that Taylor, who had already got two children, he did not know, and this is where it all starts to take another turn, is that she'd had a hysterectomy in 2019, so she could not be pregnant. And people in Taylor's life were like, what the F is this? Well, she distanced herself from the people that would have known that she had a hysterectomy, but it's a small town. small town facebook i think the doctor and the doctor's secretary or whatever that knew that she had a hysterectomy were like this is fucked up like she's announcing her pregnancy and we know that she can't be pregnant we've given her the hysterectomy but because of patient confidentiality they couldn't say anything share it so as times went on friends became more and more suspicious of taylor and then and this is actually i found this this is where the proper ticking time bomb and as she approached her due date she went over her due date.

59:01Anna Williamson:She had to produce a baby. Had to produce a baby and she then drove to the home of her friend Simmons Hancock who she had met and befriended whilst that was it photographing her engagement and her wedding. Now this young girl she was seven and a half months pregnant she'd had a few children hadn't she and and people. She had one I think. Was it was it one was it one was it it was one it was one and everyone's saying what wonderful mother she was she was a young mother she had the first baby at 17 and she was only 21 that was it and she just loved being a mother was a wonderful mother and parker then um slashed or stabbed um her about a hundred times and she removed the trigger warning again here please she removed her baby using a scalpel um the victim's three-year-old daughter um kindly kindly i think it was was found under a blanket in her bed on harm it's when the policeman said he went in and he had to step over her body.

59:57Anna Williamson:Well, it wasn't the police, it was the family friend. Was it the family friend, was it? Had to step over her body. Because the mum and dad. That was it. The mum found her, called the dad. That was it. There was blood everywhere. The dad's friend then came and the dad's friend had to step over her body because the parents couldn't do it. And she was there and he said the hug she gave, this poor little girl was hiding in her bedroom. And basically, coincidentally, she was then pulled over for driving erratically and the state trooper then finds her with the baby and the umbilical cord. She says, I've given birth, get me to a hospital, blah, blah, blah.

1:00:30Anna Williamson:She admitted during questioning that she'd been in a physical altercation with Simmons Hancock and had taken the baby from her friend's body. What was weird though, right, is that people kept saying to this Wade, who was her husband, partner, don't think they were married, that she's not pregnant, she's not pregnant, and she had him so coercively controlled, I guess, that he just never questioned it. But again, I just... In a relation... Well, he said she used to go in the bathroom and lock the door. He didn't see her pregnant. Or naked. Like, didn't see her naked. Like, she always hid the belly.

1:01:08There was always an excuse why he couldn't go to the scans. But not to even, like, touch the belly. I know this is what I find really difficult. It was really, again, just, like, really weird. Also, he was like a farmer and out all day, and they kind of had like a passing ships relationship is what I kind of got from it.

1:01:27Anna Williamson:Well, I get the impression as well. He didn't actually want the relationship. And it was because she was pregnant and he felt a bit duty-bound to stay with her. I mean, the whole situation, just bizarre. And instead of just faking a miscarriage or something, she just had to produce a baby. But would you not just go and steal a baby? because the doctor, they were on alert. They said, oh, we're on alert because we thought that she'd steal a baby. Not that she'd go and physically cut a baby out of someone. I mean, what must go through your mind? She's so desperate, like. And how mentally deranged to even think, like, I'd actually be really curious to talk to her.

1:02:13Anna Williamson:What did you think was going to happen? I did wonder if there was a documentary with her. On her on death row. You know, like they do the death row and I forgot to... Has she ever admitted it? Did we ever... Yeah, she said she took the baby out of her. So she admitted to... I don't know if she's ever... Her defence lawyers wasn't... They didn't defend that she hadn't done it. They were just trying to get her not on death row, basically. Right. Because I don't think there was any doubt... You couldn't say that she didn't. What do we think about having been on death row? Well, the thing with death row is, it's so fucking long...

1:02:48I mean, they're on death row. It's basically a sentence anyway in itself. They're on death row for like 20, 30 years before they knock them off. Why is that? I think it's to allow for appeals, allow for other evidence just in case they haven't done it. Because how awful if you kill someone and then actually it transpires that they haven't. Yeah. So I think that's why they're on it for so long. But I mean, death row essentially just means life in prison, really. And with hanging over your head, I think isn't she due to be killed soon? No, they haven't released a, she hasn't been, had a date for it.

1:03:26Oh, okay.

1:03:27Anna Williamson:I just think, I mean, it's obviously one of the most shocking things we've ever heard. I mean, also just popped in here, Emma's put, fetal abductions by maternal evisceration, which is what she did, number just 15 in the States from 1987 to 2011 and perhaps 100 worldwide. So it is extremely rare, thank goodness. Thank God. But also just the most horrendous way to die. Awful. Like, and for that little girl, like that's what I think, how absolutely deranged does Miss U B to go in and stab someone a hundred times and remove their baby in that way? Just so sad. Sickening. Also, I think, because she kind of admitted that, well, she, her story was that she was, she said, take my baby, right?

1:04:15So she said that Taylor said. They had a fight, basically, and then she'd said to her, take the baby, take the baby, because she knew that she was going to die from the altercation they'd had. So she sort of gave her permission to take the baby. I mean, it was just all such bullshit. But in the evidence, it kind of came out that she was alive while she was having this, like, the baby taken from her. so obviously having this botched caesarean and then obviously died from the wounds afterwards I just think it's one of the most disgusting things I've ever heard

1:04:50Anna Williamson:appalling one of the most disgusting things I've ever heard so bad but anyway quite horrifying a fascinating watch do watch and let us know what you think and indeed if you have any recos that you think we should watch and comment on with wider themes then, you know, we would welcome them as well.

1:05:14Anna Williamson:Now it's time for... It's the Widow of the Week! Right, Rach is nominating her boyfriend, Nate. Hi, girls. Long-time listener. First time writing in. Welcome. I need to nominate my boyfriend for Widow of the Week. We've been dating for two and a half years, and since I've known him, and he did this before me, he'd kept a spreadsheet, an actual Excel spreadsheet, ranking every shower. he's ever had. Of a shower? What? He's done this since 2018. He scores them out of 10. Based on water pressure, shower head, temperature consistency, notes whether they're a waterfall style. What? This is so weird.

1:05:50Anna Williamson:Or a can-take-it-off-the-wall-and-wash-all-bits type. How relaxing they are and overall vibe. He also tracks date and time of shower. Does he not shower that often then? He says it started because he wanted to know when was the best time of day for him to shower from a stats perspective and to give him notes for when he owns his own home and can buy the best shower for him. Wow. He got genuinely excited last month because he worked out that Tuesdays, 7.15am, are statistically his best showers. I love him, but help me tell him this isn't normal. It's not. I suspect he might be autistic. Or the guy works in data and has a real kink for it.

1:06:26Wow.

1:06:26Anna Williamson:I mean, that is probably one of the weirdest things we've ever heard. Yeah, very weird. We've got one from Anon. So J. Dry. Gigantic nipple. Morning Luanna. I don't know if this is a contender for weirder of the week. I thought this was quite normal, quite thoughtful really. But I've just emptied out my hairbrush, as I do regularly as a new mum who's losing all of her wig. Thank you babies. And when I empty out my brush, I put all the hair in the garden in hope that a bird will make a nest out of it. thoughtful or weird you decide I mean it's quite weird I mean it's thoughtful but it's still weird I grew the horses and then just put the hair out for the birds is that a thing?

1:07:21yeah because they like fluffy hair definitely data shower man

1:07:25Anna Williamson:oh I mean that's almost a contender for the whole year for me at this point congratulations that's very weird Rachel yes you may tell him that's it for this week's Luana podcast but don't worry we'll be here every Monday if you don't want to wait until then on Thursday we do have Luana totally extra for that we need you our wonderful Lufanians we love all your input wouldn't be us without you so please send your emails in luana at everythingluana.com you can also send us an email no not an email a whatsapp or a voice note our number is 075 215 646 for O. Please ignore any scam emails. Report the bastards.

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