310: The Automation Skills Gap: Why Manufacturers Need to Train the Workforce They Already Have

0:00If you're working around automation and you don't know the system you have, you don't represent your company very well. Welcome to Manufacturing Happy Hour, the podcast where we get real about the latest trends and technologies impacting modern manufacturers. Manufacturing Happy Hour. Each week, we interview industry experts that are at the top of their craft and give you the tools, tactics and strategies you need to take your career and your business to the next level. And now your host, Chris Lukey. Let's talk about training and certification in the automation space. We are joined today by A3, the Association for Advancing Automation's Christelle Kiefer, Director of Training and Certs.

0:54We're going to cover how certifications have evolved and how modern manufacturers are keeping their skills of their people at the top level. Today, on Manufacturing Happy Hour.

1:12chris del keefer on manufacturing happy hour again again you were actually on our kickoff episode one of our kickoff episodes to to start the year before so good to have you back here and in the spirit of a proper one-on-one manufacturing happy hour interview we were having this conversation over beverages where might that be paint the picture um well i know we connected about our uh similarities on punk rock concerts back in the day when i was in my 20s so i would say either punk rock concert or uh i used to like dancing quite a bit too so either or um not so much of a drinker but just uh having fun and listening to music is my jam so Well, I got a scenario then.

2:04Let's say we're kicking it between sets at a punk rock show right after the last opener before the headliner goes on. And, you know, someone's asking you about what you do. How do you describe what you do at A3 when it comes to training and certifications? How do you describe that as if you're, you know, you got 30 seconds between sets or something? Yeah, I would say, you know, I'm a director of training and certification at the Association for Advancing Automation, really focused on workforce development and getting people ready for automation, motion control, machine vision, robotics, and AI.

2:43So really making sure that people are prepared, confident, and ready to work now that we had more and more automation incorporated into their businesses. Yeah, and I'm going to be asking you how you've seen places get more prepared, how you've seen people get more confident as we get deeper into the conversation. But first, I want to ask you about your move to A3 recently, because for a long time you were working in automation at a robotics OEM and you've made the jump to A3. I'm curious, how has that transition been going from, let's say, corporate to more of an association that takes a bit of a broader perspective to all of this?

3:27Yeah, so when I worked at the robotics OEM, I worked with schools, instructors, and customers globally who were learning on one platform. And that's really valuable because you see firsthand how some people go from never touching a robot to programming one confidently. And that was super rewarding and cool to see. But you also see the limits. The fundamentals carry over, but training tied to one brand doesn't always transfer when someone changes jobs or if their company brings in different equipment. So, you know, the move to A3 has been awesome. Being part of an automation community that truly values education and training has been extremely rewarding.

4:07And it's opened the scope of what I get to work on. So my focus is workforce development, upskilling, reskilling, and building curriculum and certification pathways in not just robotics, but machine vision, motion control, and AI. And so my mindset shifted from how do I train someone on this robot to what does a competent automation professional need to know and how do we prove it in a way that employers trust? Christelle that brings up another question what is the let's say the top thing or one of the most underrated things that an automation professional should know in this day and age keeping in mind that one of the things that stuck out about your answer is it's not just robotics it's motion it's automation it's artificial intelligence the whole gamut of areas that touch the automation world.

5:08What is something that either is front of mind that people really need to know this right now or something that people really should know but isn't talked about enough? I think a lot of people think there's value in knowing one specific thing, such as like, I'm going to learn about robotics and that's it. But in this day and world, it's not just a robot on the floor. There are systems on the floor. So having a well-rounded individual that has training in all of automation, not just robotics, but they understand machine vision, motion control. I know AI is a big word, but maybe in a smart factory, there's different ways and processes that use artificial intelligence.

6:00But just having a very well-rounded individual that's been through training in multiple disciplines is extremely valuable. Yeah, great point. So not just being laser focused on, I'm going to be this visualization expert or this motion expert, but covering a broader range of skills that touch the automation world, which I think is a nice segue in to another question I have, which is what are some of the most positive changes you've seen in training and certifications, maybe just workforce development in general over the past three, five years, right? Just looking back on maybe the past half decade or so.

6:42Yeah. So a few stand out. First, I believe employers now see the value of certifications in hiring and promotions. And five years ago, a lot of companies treated training as optional. And now more of them are writing certification into job descriptions and career pathways, which gives workers a reason to pursue them. Second, the move towards stackable modular credential pathways. So instead of one big program, people can earn a foundational credential to use it on the job and build toward advanced levels. And, you know, that matters a lot because for working adults who can't step away for two years to go back to school, this makes it a lot easier for them to transition because technology is constantly evolving.

7:33So people shouldn't have to start over every time technology changes. They should be able to build on what they already know. And the stackable credentials really help support that. Third, I would say hybrid and hands-on learning has improved a lot. Online training can cover some theory so people can spend more time training directly on the equipment and simulation tools. Nothing beats hands-on training and actually getting your hands onto the software and onto the equipment. And then fourth, I would say I have seen a positive trend toward more and more partnerships forming. manufacturers colleges and universities and associations are designing programs together instead of separately so you know what's taught matches what's needed on the floor yeah i think that's a good point and let's let's go back to that concert between sets really quickly because i think it would be worth asking like a credentials 101 question because the manufacturing happy hour audience i think is pretty familiar with this right it's not that you need this four-year, two-year degree to be like, oh, I know how to do this particular thing now really, really well, and that's your certification for it, if you will.

8:51A certification, like you could even call it like a micro-certification, right? Like it's, I'm going to get really good at this particular skill, and now it could be a certifying body like you were saying. It's between the local university as well as the employer, right? I'm going down my path as someone that doesn't spend every waking moment in this space, but how would you describe what a certification looks like in this day and age? Yeah, I'd see a certification. It depends on the organization and their need. But for example, if you have an operator and, well, someone on the floor that now has to operate a system, certification for them could look like, start off with the safety fundamentals.

9:39What is a risk assessment? Then you go into, you know, an overall vendor agnostic. What is programming? Robots, you know, the different axes. And then you go into vision systems and then you go into the remainder of topics. So you have different training categories in all of the different automation areas to make a more well-rounded individual who's comfortable. And for operators, it's a lot more fundamental and basic awareness difference for an engineer, which would be a deeper dive into a lot more things. So the certification pathway for an operator would be different than an engineer, a lot more advanced principles and things taught there.

10:27But I also believe that there should be pathways for people in sales, people in human resources, marketing, comms. If you're working around automation and you don't know the system you have, you don't represent your company very well. So even if you're in HR or communications, marketing, we all play a role in automation. And you look better and more credible when you understand the technology that you have in your facility. But also safety is huge, too, because if you're walking around the equipment, you have to know what to be aware of and what to make sure that you're safe around the equipment that's on the floor.

11:06Yeah. So one of the biggest things I heard was that it's role specific, right? Whether that's operator, whether that's technician, even sales, as you're highlighting. And you went through the gamut of the different skills, right? You got to know the safety. You need to know the vision system. You need to know the automation, right? And rather than taking that in, let's say, like a two-year associate's degree, you get all of this in little chunks, again, relative to your specific role. So that way, you're getting those official stamps of approval along the way. Yeah, exactly. I'd be curious to hear some specific examples, right, of where you've seen companies or schools, you know, what you've seen them do to build successful curriculum and certification programs.

11:57If you have any stories that illustrate what's going on in industry, I'd love to hear a couple of those. Yeah, so I've seen three approaches work really well. And the first is when companies are transparent and they involve their existing employees from the beginning of the plan of this is the direction we're heading in. This is why we will be bringing in an automation system to do these things. You know, talking to the operators and the technicians and the programmers on the floor about the change from the beginning is extremely important. and it builds trust within the organization. So the companies that upskill from within, I think that's a great approach.

12:47Instead of competing for scarce automation talent, they take the operators and maintenance techs who already know the process on the floor and put them through a structured pathway with some foundational training first and then a certification after that, after some time. And the ones that do best tie it to something real. So like a pay increase or a job promotion or a new role. That way, you know, people within the organization are excited about the new system being implemented rather than intimidated. And, you know, the people, who are the people that know the floor best? Those are the people that are on the floor.

13:29So they are the ones in the end that will keep the automation up and running. So that upskilling from within is huge, especially since it's really difficult to just find someone, even with a job posting out there, you might as well just utilize the strong resources you have from within. I would say the second is colleges that build certification directly into their programs. Students then graduate with a degree and an industry credential. And when local employers sit on advisory boards and they help shape that curriculum, then those graduates are ready to contribute from day one. And I've seen a lot of schools reach out for industry professionals to be on their advisory boards to help them develop curriculum and review their syllabus and review what they plan on offering in future semesters.

14:21And then the third is apprenticeships and work-based learning. So They get classroom training alongside real time on the floor. And a company that builds the pipeline of trained people is exactly what's needed. So with these approaches that I just discussed, what they have in common is that learning connects to a real job outcome or a promotion or a credential that's recognized beyond just a company. I'd be curious to know if you're seeing companies double down on all three of these strategies or if you're seeing them kind of pick and choose which one works for you. If someone's listening to this and they're trying to improve their training and certification program, is it a pick one or two or do all three?

15:17What are your thoughts around that? So I'm going to say it depends again. It depends on how much the company, how much time, money, and value they invest and put into this. Do they really believe that they can upskill and reskill what they currently have? Or are they going to just jump the gun and try to get somebody new that's out there? Do they really believe that our next generation of workers, you know, it's worth it to invest and be on the advisory boards and invest in being at education shows and being present so that the students see your company out there, get familiar with you, and you're investing in them, and then incorporating in apprenticeships and internships.

16:04So, I mean, ideally, a very smart, long-term company that thinks in the long-term rather than the short-term would invest in all three as opposed to just, you know, we'll just upskill from within. But what about when those people retire? You still need the mentorships of those people that you've upskilled and re-skilled within to pour into the next generation. So if you have apprenticeships and internships, those kids are going to come in. They're going to learn from the skilled workers that you just upskilled. And then you're setting yourself up for long-term success rather than saying, well, it's too much money.

16:41It's too much time to invest in the next gen. that's going to make it a lot more difficult on an industry to hire someone, hire talent later on.

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18:12We'll play here slightly based on the audience of Manufacturing Happy Hour. And I'll be clear on the front end of this question. This might be a rehash of some of the things you've already said, but I'm just thinking of the typical Manufacturing Happy Hour listener. They are a leader in their industry. They could be on the front lines. They could be in the front office. We have a lot of, let's say, small to mid-sized manufacturers that listen to this show. Could be in a job shop. We also have a lot of folks in the automation world, right? Systems integrators, folks like that. And generally, they are the type of people that if they're spending 30 or 40 minutes listening to the podcast, they're implementing proactive things on a regular basis.

18:53They're not sitting back waiting for things to happen. They're getting out there. If you're one of those individuals that maybe has networked a little bit with the local chamber of commerce, is getting a little involved with their local tech school, you know, has some new hires that, you know, they're doing great, but maybe they could take their skills to the next level. Like, I really want to invest in these people. What's one thing you would recommend to that type of listener to take action on, let's say, right after listening to this podcast, if you will, or within the weeks and months right after this podcast?

19:30So I work at A3, obviously, but I would say plug into A3 just because we have over 1 ,500 members, a huge network of industry professionals that other industry professionals can network with, educators, a lot of student events. So, you know, sometimes it's like, where do I start? What do I do? Where do I go? Who do I talk to? And I believe that plugging into the Association for Advancing Automation is a great way to start and get guided in the right direction and attend the events, network with people, because once you meet someone at an event, you know, that relationship typically builds beyond just that one meeting at the event.

20:13So let's go into A3 a little bit more. Association for Advancing Automation. I know many of our listeners are already very familiar with the organization. What programs is A3 involved in to help educate the next generation? Yeah, so one of the primary ways that we support workforce development is through our training and certification programs. And we are currently building out more and more online training. We currently offer safety training and some certification and vision, machine vision and motion control. And we're expanding that portfolio and those certification programs. And some of our courses can also be incorporated into college and university programs.

21:03We support student competitions, K-12 outreach, college and university partnerships, grant opportunities. We have an A3 NextGen Mentorship Program that connects students with industry professionals who are A3 members. So that's a huge, super beneficial program to engage in as a student. And then we have Automate, which a lot of people have heard of our Automate show. We have an education pavilion that brings students, educators, and industry all together. Great place to meet. We host student robotic competitions, guided tours. We have a next-gen theater with educational sessions. We host an educator day where we have educational panels and our educator of the year award is presented.

21:53It's just a great opportunity for students to just show off their work, explore their careers, because we even provide a list and pass it out to students of all of the industry professionals on the Automate floor that are currently hiring. So they can go to those booths and meet potential employers. And then it's a great way for educators to network with other educators and industry professionals. So that's Automate. But we also have an education committee at A3 that meets monthly. to bring industry and education leaders together and really help them align with education and workforce needs. So our goal at A3 is to build stronger relationships.

22:33We're all about relationships between education, industry, creating more opportunities for our next generation to connect, learn, and grow in automation through the events that we have, through the training, and then through the committees that we have as well. I appreciate you giving the overview on A3, the way that your organization is involved. I have some personal questions along the lines of training and certifications as we wrap things up as well. You have spent most of your career, from what I can tell, with a training focus, if you will, and an education focus. From what I understand, I think you've done some business development outside of that a little bit, but it feels like you keep coming back to training and education in some way, shape or form without making the question too long.

23:26Why do you feel that's the case? What do you think draws you into this space in particular? Yeah. So I started off with a bachelor's in human resources. One of my classes was training and development and developing training. And that just like, I absolutely loved that class. So then I went and got my master's in training and development. And I think what people don't realize is you can get involved in automation without an engineering degree because training and development for me is my passion because I love, love learning new things. I love getting my hands on technology. I've enjoyed manufacturing as a little kid because I grew up around my dad who was a tool and die maker.

24:07So it's like, and that also is a statement, Like when kids are exposed early on to a family member or a mentor or industry that they've never, you know, if they haven't been exposed and then they start to see like, oh, dad does this. That's why I love manufacturing so much is because I saw that dad, you know, worked in manufacturing. but um i would say you know my passion for learning and teaching others it was huge and it was a skill um that that just came naturally for me so as i learned things i i would enjoy training other people to learn as well um alongside while i was learning and i think that's something that teachers who um are bold and brave with technology do is they learn with their students.

24:57They make mistakes with their students. They just take on the newest technology and give it a go with their students. So. I'd be curious to get your personal take as well on where you see the future of manufacturing and more specifically automation going based on your long history in this space, because I started our conversation asking, you know, what changes have you seen for the better when it comes to training and certification over the past three to five years? Maybe I'm going to start with one question. I'm going to follow it up with another. What do you want to see five years down the line?

25:38What is kind of your dream world when it comes to, and it doesn't need to be a dream world, right? It could be the reality of what we might see five years down the line. Where do you want to see, what do you want to see the automation world looking like based on the work that you're doing today? I would say seeing SMBs, small, medium businesses, and larger industries just thrive in productivity, in safety, in efficiency, optimization, just having everything in-house, you know, rather than outsource different things. Having the automation and manufacturing all in the United States would be amazing.

26:22and I foresee that happening as long as we continue to build a strong network and we support each other and we have a national strategy which you can learn about A3 and our involvement with the government on getting a US national strategy. Our president Jeff Bernstein is doing a lot there but I would say just seeing our economy thrive with automation, people accepting it more and becoming more comfortable with using it because I see that as the way forward and that's the reality that it's a good it's a good teaser because for the first time in almost five years jeff bernstein will be making his return to the podcast soon i don't want to commit to the specific date yet but we are making that happen uh we're just trying to get that on the calendar so we will be taking a deep dive into some of those topics so you know what are what are the steps that we can all be taken to get there today then?

27:18Again, one other call to action here. Steps to take. So attend events, network, even if it's an industry across the street and maybe you're an educator, try to schedule some time to meet with the industry and perhaps do a tour with just educators. I know back when I worked for the robotics OEM, I even hosted English teachers to teach them about how to incorporate in. I mean, we are technical writers. We have robotics, people that make press releases and things like that. So how does automation play into English, science, mathematics, all the different disciplines? So, you know, as a teacher to tour the facilities across the street, I think that's a huge first step.

28:07And then having students visit industry as well. So bringing, you know, the factory to the classroom and the classroom to the factory is a great way. Relationships are just the way to go moving forward and aligning with where our technology is going. We're definitely stronger together when we can tackle this together from parents to communities to our government to the local chamber of commerce. Christelle, it has been excellent having you back on the podcast. Is there anything that hasn't come up yet that we should have chatted about today. And if not, that's okay. I don't think so, unless you want to announce the special announcement that other people don't know already.

28:54Well, this episode will be coming out while I'm on paternity leave. So that has been announced on, I think it was episode 300, actually. Yeah, but this is a good reminder if anyone's wondering where I am and why I'm not responding to their emails or LinkedIn. And this will be out in the middle of a time when I'm going to be focused on another very brand new job right now. So that's a great way to end it, Christelle. Cool. All right. Well, hey, thank you so much for jumping on manufacturing. Happy hour. I'll make sure there are ways to connect with you and the Association for Advancing Automation over in the show notes page.

29:31Christelle, cheers. See ya.

29:40hey thanks for listening if you want to connect with christelle if you want to connect with a3 the association for advancing automation shout out to those guys we do a ton of work with them make sure to check out the show notes page at manufacturinghappyhour.com with that stay innovative stay thirsty make sure you're subscribed to manufacturing happy hour wherever you get your podcasts and we'll catch you again next time thanks for listening to manufacturing happy hour powered by the industrial network