308: From Prototype to Production: Inside Chicago’s Hardtech Innovation Engine with mHUB's Bill Fienup and Kim Blomquist

0:00Having that piece allows more capital for our startups. You know, it helps our corporate partners be more innovative and move at the speed of an entrepreneur. We're seeing a lot of pivots right now to, oh, our original thesis was around this, but now I'm realizing there's a dual-use application that can be applied to a data center environment and, frankly, if that's what's going to help their path to commercialization. You need a PhD in the problem. You don't need a PhD in the solution. What role does a platform that provides infrastructure for manufacturing, access to capital, access to networks, what role do they play in a local manufacturing ecosystem and beyond?

0:42Well, that's exactly what we're going to explore at M-Hub today, here in the heart of Chicago's West Loop. We're here with Bill Fienup and Kim Blumquist to go over everything that M-Hub brings not only to companies that are getting their start here in Chicago but ones that go beyond that and scale really bring manufacturing out into the world. Manufacturing Coffee Hour here at M-Hub. Bill, Kim, good to have you on the show. Nice to talk to you. Yeah we'll do a cheers with the coffee. Cheers folks. And I'm happy we're doing our M Hub episode at M Hub because I've frequented this building before from coming to the talks that you host, from throwing ragers here on your first two floors.

1:33It's a building that I've started to gain a connection with, but you're more than a building. Like, in fact, the building is like probably the least important part to highlight here. But, you know, when I talk about M-Hub, I always say, hey, there's an accelerator, there's a makerspace. But admittedly, I feel like I do a really poor job of explaining it every time. So, Bill, maybe if you could lead us off, how do you describe what M-Hub does over a drink? And then, Kim, if you want to add in after that, we'd love to hear both perspectives. Yeah. So I'd describe this as a really hyper-resource environment to really lower the barriers to entry to product development and manufacturing.

2:08And to me, it's about there's a couple of ingredients that are really important. It's the people that we have here, the community, the startups, and the companies that are in the manufacturing industry that engage. We also have a lot of tools and equipment and intelligence in the machine shop. And we have an amazing staff that helps people with not only the design, but the prototyping and the manufacturing of what they're building. And then we have a lot of education and programs. So we have a lot of mentors, EIRs. We have courses that help people learn about how to be an entrepreneur, how to build a business model.

2:46And then we have a manufacturing network made up of local manufacturers as well as investment capital. And so it's those ingredients that really make this a hyper-resource environment where you can build anything and then you can build a business around it. Yeah. Tools, technology, education, the network, capital, all of these ingredients that I'm excited to explore a little bit more, particularly, you know, when it comes to how does M-Hub or platforms like M-Hub, you know, scale across a modern manufacturing ecosystem. So thank you for that initial part of the answer. Kim, what would you add?

3:21Sure. Well, as you heard, Bill described a lot of things. I think we have an internal joke that everybody has their own elevator pitch because what we do is so intricate and there's so many connection points and we're touching so many different groups of stakeholders. But yes, I mean, the platform of infrastructure capital networks, I think, is the core of what we're providing really to commercialize early stage hard tech ideas and just to kind of dive into hard tech. So for us, that's anything that can be physically manufactured, anything that has to be physically built. And it's that hardware component with a software layer on top of it, which is where we come up with the term hard tech.

3:59And that in and of itself is really having a moment. We find ourselves at this really interesting intersection where, you know, we're trying to build up our manufacturing capacity as a country and hardware is kind of the bottleneck to emerging technologies. So we have some really exciting things happening here. Yeah, is hard tech still the preferred designation or like the best blanket term to describe the area where you're focused or is that expanded? To us, we like hard tech. It's an umbrella of which many things fall under it. And I think the new buzz term we're hearing a lot is physical AI.

4:35Sure. And that, you know, people maybe latch on to and understand a little bit differently than hard tech. But to me, that's kind of within the hierarchy of hard tech. Yeah, I think that's our focus. I mean, this is where AI brings a lot more intelligence to that hardware. But, and I think that's where, you know, that's where the industry is growing. What's nice about hard tech is the moat it creates. You know, software is basically free right now with some of the frontier models. It's very easy to build and create software. But what's hard to do is still the hard tech piece. And that's the moat that investors like.

5:11That's the moat that makes your business more sustainable and durable. And that's what we're good at doing. And doing it very rapidly is not only developing but commercializing hard tech. Well, I think one theme that's come up on Manufacturing Happy Hour over the years is that hard tech is hard. It's a challenge. And, Bill, I want to go back to one of the things you referenced in your initial answers. You help these early-stage companies lower their barriers to entry. And I feel like myself and the audience can probably guess as to what some of those barriers to entry are. But how might you summarize what the common barriers to entry you're seeing today for some of these young companies and maybe how that's changed over the years?

5:55Yeah, I think it certainly has changed over the years. But, you know, hardware is very difficult for a number of reasons. One, you need a lot of skill sets to even design. First, you need to understand the customer, their needs, you know, what you're building. because the journey is very long. And so if you get that first part wrong, you're building a product that nobody wants. So first understanding who your customer is, what their needs are, what am I building? And in software, you can pivot quicker. It's like, oh, you can get to an MVP quickly. You can launch it. If it doesn't work, you modify features until people start buying it.

6:28In hardware, you're actually manufacturing something that takes much longer and much more capital. And so it's so important to get that first part right. and that and then that's not only the the first step but there's a lot of other challenges you know with supply chain identifying the right manufacturer for the needs that you have and growing with that manufacturer or finding additional partners to bring on as you scale your product and you know in your in your journey um i would also say there's a lot other knowledge and skill sets that it takes to build a product you know typically the makeup um you know you We have industrial designers, mechanical engineers, firmware, software, electrical engineers.

7:09And then you have people that understand the manufacturing process. So I would say there's a lot more disciplines that come into it rather than just kind of UI, UX, software, or database in the software realm. I think that makes it a bit more difficult. And then I would say the capital stack is another barrier. right so you have it is a bit more capital intensive and you need to be creative about you know how how you can extend your runway you know how you can raise enough money to cover not only the development but the manufacturing yeah and so we try to we understand those barriers and we try to pick them apart and supply resources here through our programs or through our network or connections manufacturing network the EIRs that we bring in to help a startup along the whole journey.

8:03EIR, just a quick acronym. Yeah, engineering experts in residence or you know entrepreneurs in residence. Okay. I think if I can add something, I think in terms of the lab space when you're talking about those really early prototyping and I know you mentioned the rapid iteration, I mean we have multi-million dollars worth of equipment downstairs in 11 different labs and it's hard to find that outside of a university or research setting and we're operating as you know a private entity where anyone can come if they pay our monthly membership dues or have some some sort of programmatic access and have access to what you would elsewhere find in these private institutions to do anything from you know find a form factor in the woodworking lab to something more complex and complicated in our electronics lab all those steps of the way yeah and it might be worth digging a little bit deeper into the types of equipment we have.

9:00So we have a wood shop, we have a metal shop, we have a 3D printing lab, electronics shop, you know, a testing lab, hot metals lab, or you can do, you know, welding and grinding, a lot of CNC equipment, and state-of-the-art 3D printers. And so, you know, plastics labs with laser cutters, and, you know, having those tools on site really increases the speed at which you can develop a product. Because, you know, if you're outsourcing, It might be a couple days or a week before you get a part back. And there might be a fit that didn't work or it just doesn't feel right. But when you're down in the lab, you can discover that in real time.

9:37And, you know, in minutes or hours, you can iterate and develop, right? And so you get to a point where, hey, like, this works, you know, people like it. I'm ready to manufacture it. And then we introduce you to manufacturing partners. Yeah. You know, and maybe you're making the first 10 or the first 100 here, because a lot of that is still trying to figure out, is their product market fit? Will people buy this? And you can do that efficiently at a low cost using the resources here. And maybe you're making it yourself or utilizing our shop staff or our pool of contracting network that we have.

10:12But really, we're trying to reduce that time to delivery and figuring out, hey, does this work or what's wrong in fixing it? Yeah. And I think that's what makes the development process so much quicker is having all that equipment here. Yeah. So what I'm hearing is with the sheer amount of equipment and technology that you have, you are really helping reduce that timeline for the minimum viable product, the MVP for a hard tech product. And I want to go into some of the areas a little bit more that we've been talking about, the product market fit, just making hard tech products themselves, as well as the capital side.

10:50Let's go to the capital side first, because I'm curious, you mentioned that that's an area that could be challenging, right? It's more capital intensive. It's not like software where you can make a new minimum viable product every day or every hour, however fast you're going, right? I'm curious, how have you seen maybe one of the companies that's been involved in M-Hub successfully navigate some of those capital challenges? Because one thing that's come up on the podcast before is a lot of people tend to think manufacturers, their number one challenge is workforce, right? And that's no doubt something that comes up on the show a lot.

11:24But one of the other sneaky areas that sneaks in that people struggle with that maybe doesn't get as much attention is having the access to capital they need. So I'd love to hear maybe an anecdote or a story as to how you're seeing particularly younger companies navigate that aspect. Yeah, yeah. So I think there's a lot of ways to get access to capital and you know for companies that have revenue and this is sort of later stage but they they can go they can finance through debt or there's grants you know there's there's there's ways to get capital if you're already a manufacturer with products right but we're talking about earlier stage companies it's a bit more difficult so um a lot of times you know an entrepreneur has to raise through friends and family you know first to get like to get that prototype yeah um That pre-seed round.

12:14Yeah, that pre-seed round. And then they're kind of ready. They've proven some things out. They figure out what it's going to cost to make. They've proven that there's like, they've de-risked, you know, the venture a little bit. And then they go, you know, we offer an accelerator program where we look at pre-seed and seed stage startups. We give them 200K of capital. and they go through a very rigorous six months of programming where we help them you know with the customer discovery the product feasibility and the business viability and then they there's a demo day where they pitch and we bring a pool of you know 200 investors into that room where they demonstrate their technologies they you know pitch their business model and then they can network with investors.

12:59And so they get a lot of, we have, you know, a lot of LPs in our fund. And so they get a lot of visibility and not only access to capital, but access to advice, you know, in the journey. And that's another important part is like who your investors are. Are they strategic? You know, are they providing more than just the money? And that's like the perfect partner. Can you get a manufacturer to invest in your product? You know, can you get better terms? You know, I'd say another way is maybe not from a VC arm, but can the manufacturer finance the build or the development? And we have, you know, can talk about all the deals that we set up, but we've got, you know, a startup in the space where we've been able to manufacture or, you know, I guess give them terms where they're amortizing the development and the manufacturing cost over the first, you know, 2 ,000 units that they're selling.

13:52Okay. And so that's an enormous impact because it's$300 ,000 to$500 ,000 to get through that development and manufacturing costs where they can amortize that over the first units that they're selling to their customers. And then they can get orders from the customers, and there's not much of a gap that they're bridging there in terms of financing. all that upfront cost. So I would say that's probably like the most relevant and most recent case that we've had. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think we're seeing the venture landscape change a bit too. So, I mean, when we launched our fund in 2021 with M Hub Ventures, like we were really filling this white space where there just wasn't a lot of capital for that really early stage company to get off the ground.

14:45Now you see the coastal funds like Andreessen Horowitz just launched a giant hardware oriented fund and as bill kind of described the you know durability and of that market and software kind of being less attractive um we're starting to see more capital open up which is great you still have it's still a longer tail it's still there's different risks involved but there's more interest and then i think you know we kind of just brushed over the grants but that is a great option for people that are working in the verticals that we work in so like energy advanced manufacturing we do a lot of medical device we have a lot of people that are doing Department of War contracts or Department of Energy contracts and or even we have a really healthy philanthropic community that might really care about sustainability in a particular industry that's giving granted access to founders to help scale their their development so if you have to get creative there's definitely a unique stack, but we try to help navigate that.

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16:52If you want to avoid the scramble and operate like leader number two, subscribe to PTC's newsletter by going to manufacturinghappyhour.com slash PTC. And now back to today's conversation.

17:13Yeah, Kim, a follow-up question for you, especially because M-Hub is based here in the heart of Chicago, right in the Midwest. And you mentioned how a lot of the coastal VCs are getting more excited about hard tech and certainly something we've talked about this show over the past few years. But I'm curious, I mean, are you seeing a lot of Midwestern investors coming into this as well, especially based on your location? because I still, yes, we see areas like Columbus and Drive Capital, you know, really kind of planting a flag on Midwestern investment, but it still seems to be the exception to the rule.

17:48So I'm curious what you're seeing as the makeup with just the things you observe and whether it's part of your fund or your independent observations in general. I'm curious to hear what you're seeing. I mean, I echo your observation. I wish I could say yes, you know, but as a region, I think we would like to see more people step up in the venture community and people that have even successful entrepreneurs and founders that have made it from the Midwest, not just flee and then go and start their momentum and funds elsewhere. So that's something I think we still need to work on as a region and a reason why M Hub is doing what it's doing.

18:24Yeah. So we closed our first one. We immediately launched our second fund. And we're trying to roll out different funded types to continue to fill that gap and hope that more people join us. Yeah. And I think you're starting to see some of those exits from founders that are in Chicago that will then reinvest that capital back into the community through other funds. So it takes a bit of time to get that snowball rolling. You know, Silicon Valley has been doing this for decades where they have an exit or they have an IPO. there's a lot of fresh powder to then go back into, you know, reinvesting.

18:59And I think Chicago is starting to see some of that with some of the kind of the big areas that's in IPOs that we've recently had. So Dan, maybe my observation or my two cents that I'll add to it is, I mean, it will take momentum from, you know, places like Chicago, because if we're saying even Chicago quite hasn't gotten there yet, imagine what you're seeing in Minnesota and Wisconsin, and Michigan has some momentum right now, right? But, you know, I think where the real power comes in is when across the Midwest, you start seeing some of that being more open to risk and taking chances and taking bets that, to be honest, I don't think we're seeing in a lot of places.

19:42Yeah, I mean, the Midwest is historically pragmatic, right? So, you know, when you think about the curve of technology and those early adopters and the people that are just so excited about the technology that they're going to jump in blind and take on a bunch of risk. As a region, we're not totally programmed for that. And we need to flex that muscle. And, you know, we have some work to do. Yeah. One question I want to go back to is when we're talking about what some of these younger companies struggle with. I'm very curious to get your take. We were just talking about the capital aspect, so we'll put that aside a little bit.

20:15but product market fit versus you know building the product getting the product right getting a minimum viable product out where do people struggle with more in your perspective and how are they overcoming that if you had to pick between the two i think to me it's it's pretty easy to get the product right yeah at mhub when we have all the resources so yeah i think the technology part to me is the the easy part yeah um that's probably also the part where i'm the strongest in and can be the most valuable companies and so I think the harder part goes back to like is it the right solution you know or are they solving the right problem like do people care about the problem is the market big enough you know and then is this the right team to execute on the solution you know so there's like a lot of other pieces other than the technology I would say that maybe 20 to you know 30 % of like the overall success of a company is like do they have the right technology the other pieces are like just as important or even more important to solve it's like you know identifying that customer who are the stakeholders you know are there regulatory barriers you know in medtech is you know what is your reimbursement strategy and the regulatory strategy like that's a key piece you know and then it's also taking it all the way it's like it's easy to build a prototype but it's hard to scale that prototype you know so then then it jumps to a different problem like okay I've got a working unit, people love it, I'm getting great reviews, now how do I scale this profitably?

21:47How do we make tens of thousands? And that's just another, you know, bridge that you have to overcome. Even where it was so difficult to get to that one working prototype, you know, how do you make 10 ,000 of them? So yeah, and I'll build off of that. I think that's why we get industry perspective involved so early, like throughout the whole ecosystem, but especially in the accelerator so they can kind of poke holes at like, yes, this is a solution that we would potentially pilot, potentially want to engage with, potentially acquire to have that industry validation. But then kind of at that later stage that you're talking about, like just testing in a real world environment is so important.

22:24Like you can build something in a lab and run simulations on it all day. But once you actually put it out in the field and sometimes it can be hard to find those opportunities if you don't have the pilot partner, if you don't have that industry that's willing to integrate your solution on top of their infrastructure and see what happens. So that's an easy place to get stuck and we really try to help make some connections there. And even getting out in the field before you develop the product is the best advice too. Understand the environment it's going to be in. A lot of times you get to that pilot stage and you're like, whoa, this is totally not what I thought it was.

23:01Things are failing for other reasons. right it's just the environment it's in the conditions you know the the user interactions or the workflow like all play into that product and so it's interesting to like get in the field first do observations understand the needs then develop and then you know it should be a circular thing where you're going back to your stakeholders along all through the process and then when you're ready to the pilot there's no surprises yeah you're still gonna find things and perfect but the pilot is a good chance to be selling the product you know like let's try this out see if it works how it integrates with your stakeholders in the workflow and then you know making small improvements and then launching yeah it's probably been about a year and a half since i did an interview with uh an entrepreneur in pittsburgh that had you know multiple exits and the way he described it was you need a phd in the problem you don't need a phd in the solution i I think that goes back to your point.

24:02And there are a few things I could say in this area, right? I think the audience would agree, right? Like, yes, the prototyping technology, that's, for lack of a better word, the easier part. Having the product market fit, which includes having the right team to execute on a real-world problem and then scaling after the fact and getting it right in a field environment is a huge aspect of that. I am I'm curious like where where are you seeing folks succeed right now and maybe I should go back I feel like one of the big strengths of mHub then a platform like mHub is that you're bringing in a network of you know advisors entrepreneurs investors that can really help make sure no one goes too far down the path of poor product market fit poor product poor scaling et cetera.

24:55You're there to help make sure that doesn't get off the rails early as well. So where are you seeing teams succeed in product market fit right now, if you will? It's kind of a general answer. I wish I had a better way to ask that question or not a general answer, general question. I wish I had a more deliberate way to ask it. But where are you seeing successes right now with some of these younger teams just in terms of the problems they're going out to solve? I mean, I'll toss this over to you because you've worked more directly with these teams, but I think one is really in healthcare. And I think when you're talking about hard tech, the hardware and the software on top of it now with AI integrations, like it's just making opening up a lot of opportunity in that industry.

25:39So a lot with like drug delivery and monitoring and different medical devices, I think we're seeing a lot of momentum and good partnerships with some of the health systems and you have direct experience in that. I would say like, you know, AI has opened up a lot, you know, of opportunities, especially when there's a hardware piece, because like you need to collect the data from somewhere. Right. And so companies that are building a sensor or a wearable or some monitor that is then collecting data and then doing intelligent analysis around it and looking at algorithms and predicting medical conditions or problems that may occur in a patient is a really great opportunity.

26:24And a lot of that has to come down to what are those problems? What is worth solving? And really doing that analysis early and often. And working with the partners that we set up to understand the needs of the industry. So we're working with Endeavor Health. It's one of the larger healthcare systems in Chicago to get the pulse of what problems should we be solving. So when we launch our accelerator programs, we ping our partners. We had Baxter, GE Health, and Endeavor in our last MedTech cohort. And it's understanding what calls to actions or calls should we put out there to attract the startups that are solving problems that you care about, that we can pilot with the community that you have.

27:11And I think that's pretty unique to an accelerator program where we do pull in those partners. But I think it's key to our success. They help evaluate the startups as well. I think another area, regardless of how you feel about them, we're seeing a lot of ideas that had one application pivot to a data center application. So you might be talking about cooling solutions. You might be talking about something that supports energy infrastructure. How do we stretch our energy farther? How do we use water in an industrial environment so it's filtering itself and creating a circular system? So there's a lot, we're seeing a lot of pivots right now to, oh, we, we, we, our original thesis was around this, but now I'm realizing there's a dual use application to, that can be applied to a data center environment.

28:01And frankly, if that's, what's going to help their path to commercialization, that's, that's taking off. So healthcare and pivoting to data centers is two very concrete examples of, of areas where you're seeing some, you know, product market fit right now. The next round of our interview is coming up right after a word from our sponsor.

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29:41As we get into, you know, kind of the final throws of our conversation, I do want to open it up to some things maybe that we've missed so far, because as we've talked about networks, infrastructure, capital, you know, I think we're hitting a lot of these areas, but I want to make sure we don't pass over anything. Before we get there, I do want to ask, can platforms like M-Hub exist elsewhere? or do they exist elsewhere? And the reason I ask this is because we've got folks that listen to this largely across the country, in some cases around the world. And, you know, folks are always trying to think, it's like, what can I do to like bring something powerful like this to where I live, whether that's Toronto, Phoenix, you know, you name it, right?

30:23And this could also just be, hey, this is also where your reach goes as well. So Kim, maybe if you could lead us off there and then Bill, if you want to take us. Well, it's interesting. There are a couple of examples. I also think we see a lot of consulates, like other local governments that come to us and they ask, like, how do we build this in our community? They've even asked us to go there and build it for them. Will you ever do that? Or is this going to be purely a Chicago thing? So we kind of want to build out our footprint here a little bit because there's some unique opportunity with our current location.

30:55But then you have New Lab out of Detroit that's kind of taking that model, right? They have a Louisiana base, they have Detroit, they have New York. We've recorded a couple episodes at New Labs. Yeah, so that's their different model. We're kind of leaning into how do we coalesce everything and create this hyper-resourced, singular place. Because there's a lot in terms of talent, standard of living, the universities, and the talent that just feeds into the city. you know we've also had a lot of support from just like the local community in order to keep growing and building impact here yeah um we have two national labs we have the manufacturing base which a lot of the midwest has um and yeah so new lab comes to mind i know hacks too there's some in boston that are like really medical device focused yeah um so you're seeing kind of like the hardware types of what we do in the Midwest and the East Coast.

31:54But then you have Lacey out of LA that's doing physical product, but just an energy. So that you're either vertically focused or, you know. Let me ask this then. What are the two or three things that make mHub unique relative to all the other areas that are similar out there? Not to pick those apart, but more so just like, hey, what are some of those secret sauce aspects that people might be missing right now? I think it's really providing the total solution. You know, a lot of the other labs, you know, work on pieces or offer bits of the product. But I think you need all those ingredients to be successful.

32:35And another ingredient we didn't talk a lot about is, you know, our contracting network and our pool of talent. that not only enables startups to make a little money on the side while they're going through that journey. If they're pre-revenue or pre-funding, they don't have cash to pay bills. And so M-Hub has a huge contracting network where we have external clients that want access to R &D, engineering, product development services, commercialization. We can build teams of startups or full-time contractors and provide solutions to corporate clients that are developing a product. And that also goes to our mission about really having the impact and scale because those corporate clients have the ability to mass produce very quickly.

33:23But having that piece allows more capital for our startups. It helps our corporate partners be more innovative and move at the speed of an entrepreneur. And it does help finance those startups and extends their runway. So that's another ingredient we didn't spend a lot of time on, but it's the manufacturing network, it's the capital, it's all the pieces that we've talked about. And a lot of the other, they may be focused on specific chunks of an offering. But then it's the people that have come to use those things. So what I find and what I reflect on is it sounds so kumbaya, the community, But like it is true.

34:09Like we have a vibrant community and I can't even tell you how we built it. Like I don't know how this has grown. How long have you been here now? Well, in this building since 2023, but we had an old building since 2017. Next year is our 10 year anniversary. You've got 10 years of runway. 10 years of runway. That's how you built it. It's great. We've had like a really tenacious team where like like from leadership to anyone that's ever worked on M-Hub staff is just tenacious. We like do we say we're going to do wild things and we have been able to accomplish them. And then I mean, we have over 200 daily users in this building.

34:47So it's not like the office spaces where you're going into in this remote work like this. There's energy here. There's people solving problems. Everybody's excited about the future. There's some big things we need to solve is humanity and people here are trying to get it done. and that energy is infectious and that you can't manufacture that. That has just happened, and we've been fortunate to be a part of that. And it was built organically. There was pre-MHub days, there was a prototype to MHub, like you have a prototype to your product. And that community was very organic. We had about 300 people, and they were building the tools themselves, building their desks in our early prototype and proving that there's product market fit for a community that has resources, that has connections to manufacturers.

35:41And that was sort of the seed that allowed this organization to grow. And I think because of that organic built, you have like real intentions, real needs, real people. We understand pain points. You know, I was an entrepreneur struggling without resources. It helps to have that perspective when you're building a product for yourself, it's easier because you have that understanding, but then you have to validate it with, you know, is this thesis correct? Do other people feel this pain point of needing access to tools, equipment, machines, you know? So I think that's another piece of our success is, like, really understanding and having empathy for, you know, the problems that entrepreneurs and manufacturers experience.

36:26Yeah. Well, I think the organic nature of just being at something for nine years, like you have, you know, that definitely helps build a community because otherwise it feels like you're forcing it sometimes. If, you know, I don't know many people that have built a community super quickly. I think that's one of those things that just takes a little bit of runway. And one thing I'll emphasize that I think is unique about you is you have a great location as well. Super accessible. You know, I took the green line here this morning to get here, you walk right off the train and you're a block away from here.

36:57And that we've talked about this on the podcast and other ways like this opens up opportunities to lots of folks to do this. And you mentioned like the energy is here because, you know, they're like actually people here. And I do think that's an ingredient that's missing a lot. And I think having a great central spot, you know, right in the West Loop, one of the best parts of Chicago, really is an ingredient to that as well. One of my observations as an independent observer too. As we wrap up, I'll ask a question that you can feel free to elaborate on as much as you like. What's something you wish I would have asked that I haven't yet?

37:35That's always the last question on the show and for a place that does as much as you do, I should say a platform that does as much as mHub does. I'm curious, is there an area that we didn't dive into as much that you'd like to give an extra shout out to. I mean, I guess for me, the only thing would be like, yes, we're in the business of building new businesses, but we also want to retain them. We want to grow them. We want them to stay here and just strengthen the overall manufacturing ecosystem. So Bill Munch talked a lot about like our connections to suppliers. How do you find your contract manufacturer?

38:06Like we're trying to do that regionally. It can be hard. Like we still have startups that will take it overseas for, you know, because they couldn't find the right option, but we are trying to build that stickiness. We have programs, matchmaking days, just strengthening the overall manufacturing ecosystem while we're creating new manufacturing businesses. And that's really important to the work we do. Do you have a story of a company that's come through mHub that is stuck around and is now contributing to the regional ecosystem here? I'm curious. I feel like that's something regions are always asking them.

38:41It's like, what do we do to make our region stronger? And companies that are born, bred, and stick around, I feel like that's one of the recipes to success in that regard. Yeah, I mean, I think... Oh, yeah, yeah. Haas? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, there's a lot of stories where we find early members that we help them through the product development. And then they leave the nest here that we have at M-Hub, and then they come back with a product and need help manufacturing it. So, you know, there's a company called House Alert that manufactures emergency response systems for ambulances, firefighters, you know, first responders.

39:21Yeah. And they put them in their cars and then they notify, you know, other pedestrians and drivers that there's an ambulance coming their way. So we helped them develop the product and then found them a manufacturer of local here in the Midwest that is mass producing their product. and they wanted to onshore. When the tariffs hit, their product costs went up extremely high. We were able to redesign it, bring that product cost down lower than they were getting from overseas. And having that local manufacturer really helps with communication, the supply chain. It's quicker. You don't have to wait for your product on the boat.

40:00So they were an early member, and now we see them scaling here in the Midwest. And Zenblen is another example. So the robotic smoothie machine downstairs that maybe you've had before. I don't know about that. I'll check that out. Look, there are contract manufacturers in Illinois. I can't think of the name of it. Sure. Yeah, it was so, like for them even, you know, perfecting in the manufacturing process. They're like, it's so convenient that we can just drive over there, see what's actually happening, be involved in the conversation. Nothing's getting lost in communication or documents or emails or time zones.

40:34And so there's an efficiency there too. Yeah. So that company was called Zenblend and then Haas Alert. Was that Haas Alert? All right. I'll make sure we've got those in the show notes page as well so folks know where to find them. Two great success stories. As we wrap it up, we're actually going to go back to where we start. I'm going to try my beer pitch, elevator pitch for M Hub one more time to see if it sticks. So, you know, not only are you a place, but you're a platform that ultimately brings, you bring the network, you bring the capital access, and you bring the infrastructure for developing and scaling new hard tech solutions.

41:15Am I closer than I was before? Bravo, bravo. It was great. All right. Well, hey, thank you both. Bill, Kim, thank you for taking us through this today. This was awesome. Always good hanging out here at M-Hub. I know this will not be the last time I'm back here. Great to have you anytime. Yep. Easy train ride from Milwaukee. I'll see you soon. All right. Thank you. Cheers. Cheers.

41:37all right that's a wrap here in chicago illinois thanks so much to bill and kim for jumping on today's show to get any information to connect with bill and kim make sure to go to the show page at manufacturinghappyhour.com and make sure you're subscribed to manufacturing happy hour wherever you get your podcasts stay innovative stay thirsty we'll catch you again next time

42:06We'll be right back.