Best Work Investment of the Year

0:00All right, guys, we didn't intend this for this to be live, but we're going to go live. It's Friday, 2 p.m. Neil is recovering from a fever, 102 degrees, I think. So, but you know what? We're not going to disappoint you guys, even though we're going into Christmas. It doesn't matter. The show must go on. Neil, I'll give you the option here because I took the liberty of putting some ideas in here. So what looks interesting to you to get started on here? Best work investment of the year. Best work investment of the year for me is peer groups. And what I mean by this is we've talked about groups such as YPO or EO, and I've talked about groups I'm in, like we call it the Tulumonati, where we have some of the mutual friends in that group that we've been meeting since 2018.

0:41What I mean specifically by this is I mean being very intentional about the peer groups that you're in. And so I've actually been cutting the peer groups I've been involved with this year. So earlier this year, I was in like a YPO SaaS group. Okay, I cut that. I was in a, let's just say I was in an in-person forum. I cut that as well. And the reason I cut those from my life, I would say you're almost like, We have like our own little peer group, my doing this podcast in person with Noah, right? But I've gotten a lot more intentional just trying to figure out, okay, what are we trying to get out of this?

1:09Okay, so for example, with you and me, sure, we get to record this podcast. It's fun. We have Noah there as well, but we get to eat after we get to catch up on life. And that's something we get to do every week. And this is a forcing function for us. This podcast, I think in my mind also keeps us sharp when it comes to new marketing stuff. So we're not gonna fall behind because you and I have become a lot more operational within our businesses in different ways. Why do I keep the Tulumani group with Syed, Yaniv, these other people? Because we've been doing it since 2018. And all we care about is eating good food, doing sports activities, and helping each other with our businesses.

1:43We don't care to party. I don't think anybody in the group really drinks as well. And so I'm good with that. Now, other groups, the reason why I left. I'm just laughing because I know some of your other groups really love drinking. Yeah. So some other groups, and I have no issue with this. It's just not for me, right? But some issues, some issues, some of these other groups, I would say they, you know, maybe their mission is more so to party. Or I would say some of these other groups, they, they, I could tell people weren't as bought in. And it was like pulling teeth for me to plan out an agenda for a retreat and get people rallied around it.

2:18So if I have to pull people, it feels like pulling teeth. Or if it feels like maybe I'm not aligned with the values, maybe I don't want to, you know, I've been through, you and I have kind of been through little phases of partying in maybe our 20s. That's okay. That's when it makes sense to cut. So I would just say that a lot more intentional, a lot more deeper with the groups that I have right now. And I think a younger me would have said, hey, peer groups are amazing, but joining more so for quantity of groups versus quality is not a good bet. So that's what I would say. How about for you? My best work investment, and I started doing this towards the end of Q3, early Q4 was a weekly, if not twice a week, lunch meeting.

2:59So I get hit up for lunch meetings often. I generally always say no. And I'm not saying you should meet up with everyone because you have to evaluate your time. Your time is precious. It's worth money. And I now have a much more open mind to meeting people, even if they're not in my industry, even if they won't be a potential customer. I try to meet like-minded, smart individuals, even if they're in different spaces. I've learned a lot from them. I made a lot more connections. The networking's been great. And I would say for every 10 of those meetings, two to three result into some sort of benefit, even if I wasn't trying to get a benefit.

3:38So for example, the benefit could be interest to potential customers, investor introductions, introductions to other things that make my life better. Like I met up with a guy named Mustafa a week ago and he's like, oh, you travel a lot, right? And I was like, yeah. He's like, you need to use this credit card. you're going to save a lot on your hotels and you'll actually get better hotels. I forgot what the name of the card is, but it's a thousand bucks a year. And he's like, it's much more beneficial than your centurion card and you'll save a lot. And he has a centurion card. So I was like, oh, this is cool.

4:10So I've put in investment for work, not necessarily cash wise, but to me it is as equivalent to cash is meeting people one to two times a week and new people every single week. And I found that to be very valuable. it's just I kind of have to force myself to. You know, I screwed up on this. I had it on the wrong, all these things, I had it on the wrong line. So my actual best investment this year is in people. So what I mean by that is people that we've hired this year have been great. A lot have been there, done that. You have an amazing executive team. I think our leadership team has certainly gotten a lot stronger.

4:48And I think we've been a lot more intentional about the people that we're bringing in. And the other thing that you have labeled here, best work investment of the year. We're not talking about work investment. I thought you were talking about work investment. That was my answer. I think these two kind of go hand in hand because if you look at the two that I have highlighted over here, best investment this year is people. And then best work investment of the year is micromanaging the talent bar. And so you have Mike Kamo who handles the level of people that you bring into the team. For me, I think when it comes to having a high talent bar or a knack for talent, I think I'm pretty good at it.

5:22And what I've noticed is me micromanaging the talent bar has yielded a lot better results than any other recruiter. I think certainly you want to have a recruiting team. You certainly want to have a people team. But I think my strong belief here, I don't know if you disagree with, I think you need at least one of the founders micromanaging the crap out of that talent bar because that's all you have at the end of the day. And even what you're talking about, too, meeting people for lunch or me talking about peer groups, it all comes down to people. And I think younger version of us might have thought that we could just build software and then hide in a cave.

5:50But, you know, the older we get, it's like the world goes around because of people. Yes. And I would say my best investment every single year in business is actually people. I think people has always been number one. Good people really do make a huge difference. Bad people. Oh, my God. They bring on more bad people and then it snowballs and compounds. I'll give you a great example of this. We were doing a meeting with our software division. What's wrong, Emma? You got hurt? Okay, so I was in a – she doesn't want to do her homework. But I was in a meeting with some of the people in our software division, and they were just like, you know, the goals we set for next year aren't good goals.

6:34We don't think they're aggressive enough. If we look at the investments we're making, we should increase the goals that we've set because why would we aim for these mediocre goals? and you know my co-founder and we're on that call we're like and he said right away he's like that's music to neil's ears and i'm like it is those are the type of people i love working with yeah i remember uh back in the day when i was at um i remember you you i remember you would talk about working with certain people and then whenever you had someone on your team that's like i'll figure it out those that's when you got really happy um and so that's those are the type any founder likes It's all figured out people because there's different levels of people here.

7:15I'm not going to go through management one-on-one, but you have people that sit there and maybe do nothing. That's the lowest level. Then you have people that will sit there and point out the problems. And then the higher tier above that is people who point out the problem but offer a solution. But even higher than that is people that have figured out and solved the problem and just told you this is what happened. And so I guess it's no secret for us. I think the final thing we'll call out here is when you think about like a Steve Jobs Steve Jobs once said that you have if you have an A player engineer they can do the work of not just 1, 5, 10 people but we're talking about 100x but when you hire B players, B players don't like hiring people that are smarter than them and what ends up happening is they hire C players and you have the Bozo explosion so that's why I think you gotta have like for you it's Mike, for me it's me being super close to the talent bar and it might irritate your team with you saying no to people at the very end, but you have to do it because you're protecting the castle.

8:09And the people are really the main moat that you have. Yeah, and I think people have this misconception, or people in not just marketing and business in general, have this misconception that I got this budget. This is what I want to spend for this role. I can't go above that. Sometimes you can get better people for less. Sometimes you'll get better people, but they'll cost more. and you can't just look at a budget as this is what someone in this role should get paid. It's also what value can they provide? Because if that person is three, four, five X better than, you know, three, four other people, you can also save money too.

8:48And we've seen that firsthand. We've seen it where, when you pay the right people more, you don't need as many people in and overall it's cheaper. And I've also seen it on the flip side, I was talking to Syed more so texting Syed and I was like dude this is what we're getting done on the dev side for WordPress is it good bad what's the rates etc and he was just like he's like you're overpaying by a lot and then in turn I'm like man things are moving really slow and he was saying I can get someone to move way faster for like a third of the price yep so anyway all that to say guys um I don't think we saw it this way in the beginning because Neil and I as marketers we tend to think that marketing is everything.

9:28But again, guys, people, people is everything for everything across the board, which actually brings me to my next point. One thing I changed my mind on this year is, you know, and, and this actually goes in the coolest moment of this year for, for me as well. But what I changed my mind on this year is that relational wealth is way more valuable than monetary wealth. And I think I've always kind of felt like that, but I think nothing crystallized it more than at my mom's funeral and you were there. And it wasn't until I actually started to think about and put together her speech, I was like, yeah, all she did was trace.

9:58She chased wealth, but it was relational wealth. And so I think that will probably stick with me forever because I actually thought about it. And you look at people at the very end, like all the regrets of the dying. Nobody regrets. Nobody's like, oh, I wish I would have worked more. A lot of the stuff they talk about ties in with relationships, ties in with people. And I'll kind of tie that in with coolest moment of the year, too. I think it's the level of support I got when my mom passed. So you were there. You were at the funeral. Yaneve and Syed flew over. So Syed flew over from Florida. Yaneve flew over from Arizona.

10:28And it was unprompted. Like I didn't ask you. You're just like, hey, I'll be at the funeral. Right. And so I think that level of support I got, I think was really cool. And the amount of snacks I got was really cool. The amount of flowers I got was really annoying. So lesson for everyone too. If you're going to give someone something for funerals, don't give flowers. And guess what? Funny story. Who are the people that gave me the snacks? It was the women that sent snacks. And And it's not saying these are women I'm dating or whatever. These are friends, right? So these are girl friends that sent me.

10:57They're like, I was like, why didn't you guys send flowers? Every man sent flowers. They're like, because we know how annoying it is to get a bunch of flowers. And then you have to take care of all of them and you have to manage them, right? So they sent me really, really good snacks. So pro tip. Go ahead, Neil. What you changed your mind on this year? What I changed my mind on this year? You've been talking about launching a business for years. You've got the skills, the ideas, the edge. but no product sells itself if it doesn't exist. 2026 is your reset button. It's time to stop thinking about it and actually build it.

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13:16Ready to build a site that looks hand-coded without hiring a developer? Launch your site for free at Framer.com and use code MS to get your first month of pro on the house. That's Framer.com, promo code MS. Framer.com, promo code MS. Rules and restrictions may apply. I go back and forth on this every single year, but some years I'll be like, I travel too much. I need to stay back more home with the family. You know, the traveling isn't really worth it. and then I start ramping it back up. I'm like, oh, guys, we need to travel more. I would say I changed my mind on that a few times in 2025 and 2024.

13:56My goal in 2026 is just to travel a lot, not for fun, but for work, and try to do whatever it takes to make the business grow faster. Being on the road, I hate to say it, like when I look at a lot of the large clients we've landed, like those Zempics of the world, it's... Eli Lilly? I don't know who those Zempics were. owned by but whoever owns the zempic no novo nordisk novo nordisk there you go so they heard my speech at web summit in rio a few years before and then eventually ended up getting hired oh that's a nice one and when we keep looking at the brands that hire us a lot of them come from events and the events it takes like on average what i'm hearing from like or let me rephrase not generating business, I'm talking about the right type of business.

14:46So for us, that'd be enterprise, RFPs. You're trying to go for the juggler, trying to get larger accounts, seven figures, eight figures. Sometimes they're six figures, but ideally you're looking for seven to eight figures to start off with. And you tend to mainly get those from RFPs. When we look at a lot of the RFPs, they come from relationships and speaking at events and networking and meeting people. but it takes like a year and a half to two years to get included into a lot of RFPs from when someone hears a speech. So it's a very long sales cycle, not to generate business, right? Because there's some people who hear us when I'm speaking and they hire us within three, six months.

15:25I'm talking about getting RFPs for larger type accounts. In the marketing world, bigger deals tend to go through RFPs. It's just how it's done. And it's a procurement led process. It usually takes a while to get included in those. But people need to not only hear you from CK events, but learn from you. Emma, relax. Don't worry. Don't get frustrated, baby. It's okay if it doesn't work. I'll work on fixing your iPad. Don't worry.

15:52Okay, anyway. This is what happens when kids start using technology to do their homework. Their school gives them an iPad, or we have to... Are you fixing it right now? Are you fixing it right now? Say hi, Emma. Emma, what shirt are you wearing? It looks like a Sriracha shirt. No. What is a search? Search. Or shirt. Common. Common Ground. Yeah. Who got Daddy sick? Was it you or William? It was you, Emma. William? William started it first. Emma, you got him sick. It's cool. And then William got you sick? It's Common Ground, Southern Marian's song. It was for our performance today. Yeah. We all wear a rainbow.

16:30Red was kindergarteners and orange was first and I'm orange. I love it. Cool. I love it. Fix the iPad. I'll take it next. So, okay, as we continue with Emma on screen. Emma, you're going to be famous from this. You're going to be on YouTube. So I would say the funny thing that Neil's talking about with what he changed his mind on is he always has a thing where he's a little schizophrenic. Emma, look at what schizophrenic means. So with his home, for example, he keeps going back and forth. Should I live in LA? Should I live in Vegas? Should I build this home over here? Should I sell this home over here?

17:08And then one year he's like, should I travel more? Should I travel less? I should have traveled. So there's always one thing where he's schizophrenic on. At least one thing. At least. Always one thing. At least. But it's usually one main thing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'll continue on while you fix MSI, Pat, here. So I'll go with favorite AI tool of the year. And mine is granola. Let me tell you why I like this granola, this granola, Neil. Because what I've noticed, okay, let's even use it in the context of relationships, okay? In the context of relationships. So let's say you and I, Neil, we're having a debate.

17:41When you have a granola that's listening to the conversation, it can be an indifferent arbiter and it can just say where it thinks you're wrong or where it thinks I'm wrong. And for me and you, we're okay being wrong. But also when I have it sitting in a leadership meeting and it also lists how each person thinks from a systems thinking standpoint, where it thinks each person is at and what each person needs to work on. It's correct. And it's more objective. When you bring that up, there's not much, there's not much emotions because Neil, if I were to give you feedback and sometimes you might disagree with it, then it's going to get emotional.

18:15But when you have an AI that's in there being the arbiter, you can't really blame the AI. You can't really get upset at it. And so for me, having granola in it and I can ask questions around all the transcripts that I've had. And I can also ask questions on things where that have been high leverage or low leverage or things I shouldn't work on anymore. It's extremely powerful. And I haven't seen any other thing that's like it so far. So what about you? favorite AI tool of the year? Nano Banana. You using Nano Banana? For images. For ads. I get involved in my own ads. You? Yeah. Wow. I think it's been great.

18:51It's way better than... I read something. Was it TechCrunch? I think it was TechCrunch that talked about how OpenAI is releasing something that's way better than Nano Banana when it comes to images. I haven't seen it yet or used anything from OpenAI that beats it so far. But when we run ads, images help a lot. I know a lot of people do video-based ads. We also do image-based ads. You can still get a lot of traction from it. But NanoBanana has really helped us fine-tune images at scale that are quality. Most of the AI images for ads, and we've done this for a long time, most of them suck. And I'm assuming you agree with this.

19:33um nano banana isn't perfect a lot of failures but we found that it's it produces better results and you can take it from there modify it and then you know start throwing things up but it helps us test faster because the quality it meets a minimum bar the minimum bar that you really need to start testing images dude i'll give you a second one because you mentioned nano banana so i love that notebook lm leverages nano banana now and you the presentations you can make so imagine you and i are putting together decks for our talks, okay? So we obviously have our own design aesthetics, but to take a couple of YouTube videos that I watched that have interesting data or I can take some long form PDFs and then I can have Notebook LM make a presentation from it and I can also edit that presentation using Manus.

20:17That's crazy because you and I, we leverage a lot of data from different sources. I know you pull from your own data sources too, but to be able to have, I think, even more dense, and when I say dense, more data-driven decks when you're doing talks. Like for example, Neil did a talk at HubSpot this year and it was all decks, sorry, it was all graphs throughout the presentation. Yeah, charts and it did well. And I think we're gonna see a lot more of that. We're gonna see much better presentations because of Nano Banana and because of Notebook LM. Yeah, I would agree with that. What I'm noticing on the presentation end, we've used some of the AI apps to help you make presentations.

20:57A lot of them are off and you still have to make a lot of tweaks. We haven't found one that just like is really good. And with the human intervention that you have to have to fix a lot of the issues, we still see it saving time, but not much like 15, 20 % for the type of presentations we create max. It's still better than nothing though. Yeah. Oh, we forgot to, to, to, I forgot to ask you this one. What's your coolest moment of the year? I don't know if I have one cool moment. You know, I can't even think of one cool moment. I had to think about this one. So if it comes back, you can just lock it in when you have it.

21:31Yeah, I don't think I really have a cool moment. But just in general in life, I would say I'm content. I always want more. But overall, I'm pretty satisfied. I could always feel like I'd do better, network more, close more deals, make more money. But just generally, I'm content. The hard part, and Eric has experienced this as well, when you're an entrepreneur for a long time and you've done somewhat okay a lot of things lose their pizzazz yeah right so it's like you get numb to a lot of stuff and you start seeing it over and over but i would say i mean how about it like a personal moment even it could be like emma or william doing something and you're doing something with it like what's the coolest moment because for example like the my mom passing sucks but that was a cool moment when i when everyone came together so this wouldn't be a cool moment, but I would say it was an enlightening moment for me.

22:22A buddy of mine, I was talking to him on the phone, and my daughter busts out like a spray bottle. She starts spraying water on my keyboard and computer. I'm like, Emma, you can't do this. This is going to mess it up. And he was on the phone, and I wasn't yelling, but I was a little irritated. And he said, you're so lucky. I'm like, why? he's like i i would kill to have um a kid you know that sprays my computer anything with water he's like you're blessed you have two kids he's like i wasn't able to have any kids yeah i'll tell you this is a cool moment right here i have a picture of you emma and us doing a podcast here see this is a cool moment that's what i mean by cool moment yeah yeah so for me that was enlightening i was like it's perspective like yeah i'm blessed maybe i was a little irritated but yeah i'm actually quite lucky i have yeah save that picture i just sent it to you now you're gonna get poopoo from emma because i'm calling it out but it's okay guys that's it for today uh um neil came in sick thank you neil for doing this sick and we'll see you guys next week um hopefully we'll be in person so goodbye