Is This the Best Vibe Coding Design App?

0:00But by the way, so you know how you and I like we still do marketing, we still do CRO on our websites, right? So when you do CRO on your website right now, like are you using like Figma to like take a snapshot of a page and then comment on what you want changed? Like how do you do it right now? The whole process or just the design? Just the beginning. It's like I want this changed and how are you prototyping it right now? So my buddy Gajon from Spiralize takes a snapshot of any website on the internet that's running an A-B test. So if I want to run an A-B test, the first thing I do is I go to him and I'm like, yo, dude, I need data.

0:37What's the winning versions for anything in my industry? And he'll feed it to me. And then I take that and then I'll take the current version and then I'll go and I'll leave edits based on what's won on previous tests. And when I say he takes snapshots, let's say there's 100 B2B SaaS companies and I have a SaaS product. I'm making this up even though I do have a SaaS product. and there's 100 in my space. You'll go and take a snapshot of every single one that's running a testing script, Optimize, VWO, Crazy Egg, you get the point. And then they pinpoint which version became default after the test was over.

1:15So they'll do that for many different websites so they can see what tends to be the winning variation versus the variation. He should have that as a product. Yeah, he should. He'd probably make more money selling that as a product. And then we will then take the data on what's winning and then use that data to then go and adjust what we're doing on our website. But the key thing, so you just mentioned after you have that data, so after, okay, you've got it, like how are you communicating these changes? How are you prototyping these changes to send to your team? Figma. Okay. It's all comments. Great.

1:44Get this. So you, okay, remember, like if you want to prototype something, you might've had to use Figma. You might've had to like wireframe stuff using Balsamiq in the past, right? So now there's an app. Like I know we've mentioned not to use a bunch of AI tools, but here's another one here's here's actually an amazing app that helps you prototype because you with a lot of ai prototyping stuff it like will give you like an ai like version ai looking like computerized version of like a landing page right if you wanted to maintain consistency for your site so if i went to mpdigital.com right now and i did a snapshot i can literally type in natural language i want these changes made right now plus i can like loop in screenshots from other tests that you've seen and literally it'll make the changes to that page you can send it to your developer that takes you like two to three minutes to do and you get the changes up a lot faster and it's exactly what you want versus before figma comments comments comments this and that back and forth this and that don't need to do that anymore so we don't do the comments back and forth on figma oh it's just it's just me my comments do this my comments do this yeah and i would probably still use the same process that we use right now instead of the tool because for me I know you're saying two, three minutes.

2:53I get it was an exaggeration, but it's quick. It's faster for me to just be like, here's the screenshots, implement these in these areas, and that's it. And then my team though, should use that software that you're just mentioning to whip out the version and showcase it to me. Because I think for me, I'm not trying to sound arrogant. It's a bad use of my time to do all of that versus just saying, just go make these quick changes. I'm not exaggerating, two to three minutes. I'll show it to you later. Maybe your team should use it, but I'm saying, I get it. Yes, your time is very valuable. You should be focused on higher leverage, but conversion rate is a very high leverage thing, right?

3:31Yeah, no, this is a high leverage. I'm not exaggerating. Two to three minutes and that's it. For me, getting things done, that book, right? It's like, if it takes two minutes, you just do it yourself. And so, not do it yourself. I agree with that. What's this software called? Alloy.app. A-L-L-O-Y.app. Okay, I'm going to check it out and I'll let you know what happens after I test it. Here's my big fear and this is why I haven't used a lot of AI apps for these kind of tasks. I put it in and I tell it to make a mock-up with my design guidelines. And I'm assuming I can upload the design style guidelines and the color scheme and all that.

4:04You're just freaking, I was about to use the F word, but like this is how much I love it. You literally take a screenshot of whatever page it is or capture it. And then you just say whatever you want to change. And then you can, if you like to pull the spiralized examples, like one or two examples, just upload it. And then just say, ask me any clarifying questions. and then boom, like it's done. And I was like, the first time that happened, I was like, whoa, like, because Jason Lemkin mentioned it on X, right? He's like, this is the best thing. I'm like, this can't be that good, right? I use it.

4:30I was like, it's pretty good. Yeah. I'm going to end up testing it, but here's my fear going back to it is I'm afraid that I spend the two, three minutes and it doesn't get it the way I want. Yeah. And I can't send it to a developer and I'm going to have to keep spending two, three minutes, five, 10 times. Yeah. And that's why it's just easier for me to just leave some text-based comments. I changed my homepage, right? So you can see my homepage here. I added this average ROI thing, and then these like three check marks over here, and I changed this quote over here, and I asked the video to be changed.

4:58And we changed the logos down here, right? Yeah, let me check it out. That, it maintained the style of the brand. It didn't like add a bunch of like random things that it needed to, you know, re kind of spec out. So for these kind of changes, I get it, but I don't use Figma for these kind of changes. I would just pick up the phone. You're talking about something significant. Yeah, like doing a whole new redesign based on a new book. That's different. I'm talking about minor things like this. Yeah, minor things? No, no, actually, no. You can do this for prototype with products too. So like, I don't have an example of our old homepage, but if I show you my new homepage, I want to make sure I'm not blocking the camera.

5:35No, I know. I'm talking about your camera. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I ended up doing, we figured out logos on the left, which logos we wanted, check boxes, what happens after they put the check boxes. we wanted the words right underneath after that we wanted to change the next section to creative yeah we then wanted to reduce introduce a map with all our locations yeah and then we wanted to introduce a case study section which we're redoing right now yeah then we wanted to do a job section but most the page the layout has changed where it was more so a redesign yeah where oh you have rfp button now that's great yeah we have rfp button yeah yeah and i can tell what happened with the RFP button, but the point I was getting with this redesign, I was able to get my team, we were able to get alignment in less than 10 minutes on everything that wanted to be changed.

6:26I don't think we could have brainstormed and figured that all out in an app in less than 10 minutes. No, if you got that done in 10 minutes, that's still more efficient. But not the design, by the way. That's me getting my site done. I don't know how long it took. If your site is only 10 minutes, I would just stick with that. But prototyping like apps and things like that, like, you know, it's worth trying. Prototyping apps, yes. If it's like brand new, I actually do love using AI and the reason being is I'm now speaking with a visual and then it helps our product team go out there and figure out how to build on something.

6:55So, okay, if you wanted to build on Ubersuggest, for example, you would just take a screenshot of like the design of like the different Ubersuggest screens. We already do that with AI right now. And then we send it. I don't know, Kyle Mayan does it. Yeah, so this will plug into that because like whatever changes you want to make to screens and all that, this is where you'd be using it. But if you have something for it, that it's fine. I wonder if he texted me the screenshot. Yeah. Let's see. I can show you it. No, my text message is deleted after 30 days. Yeah. But he would text me changes. He's like, what do you think of this?

7:25And he'll do it in AI and then if it's good, we'll then send it to the team and explain through that visual what we want done and they'll go and tweak it. It's never looking exactly the same. They polish it up more, but that was useful. Yeah. Going back to the RFP button, you want to know how that's working out? Yeah, yeah. So the thesis behind the RFPs is we're an enterprise shop. We do S &B work as well. We do mid-market as well. So we do all ends of the spectrum, but we've been going more and more upstream and even more and more upstream for S &Bs. So instead of working with an individual business, we would work with an individual business with 300 locations or 500 locations.

8:05So you're getting the money in quantity. So even though each individual business isn't much, it adds up. adds up because the franchise may say hey we're only giving you five thousand dollars a month for the business well it's just like wait you have 200 locations that adds up to a pretty penny on a monthly basis um so those kind of deals and they don't always pay five grand but even if it was two grand you know with 200 locations whatever it adds up pretty fast um and what we found is we're like you know what most rfps when they decide to include you in a rfp they're not going to go to your website and click a rfp button they've already decided at that point that they want to include you in an rfp all right we still wanted the rfp button so that way when people browse our website they know we have we accept rfps yeah so they're more likely to include us i don't have any data on that yet because you just launched it uh it's been live for like maybe a month and a half yeah but mp digital the website your what that website doesn't get as much nearly as much traffic as your main website your personal revenue than the neil patel website well i'm sure it does but like i'm talking about web traffic to mp digital yeah i don't know how much uh it doesn't my guess is from google search console my guess is just from search alone NP Digital, what is it?

9:3230 ,923. That was last three months. So from search, we're getting, if I look at the last 28 days, 8 ,680 clicks from search. Wait, 800 what? 800 ,000? No, sorry. 8.68. So 8 ,600. To npdigital.com. To npdigital. But it's very qualified traffic. Very qualified. You want to guess what our number one query is? When I first started my business, the overwhelm was real. I didn't have the tools to help me scale. If only I had Shopify from the start to handle all the behind the scenes work. Shopify is the platform behind millions of businesses globally from huge names like Mattel and Gymshark to the smallest brands just getting started.

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11:50Ready to build a site that looks hand-coded without hiring a developer? Launch your site for free at framer.com and use code MS to get your first month of pro on the house. That's framer.com, promo code MS. Framer.com, promo code MS. Rules and restrictions may apply. Neil Patel? No. NPSpace Digital. You want to guess what our number two query is? np digital not spaced yeah you want to guess what our number three query is np digital marketing neil patel digital okay those are the top three np digital without a wait what percent what percent like how much traffic is i wish they gave the percentage uh uh i don't know that's average click through it uh okay so np digital makes up 3032 with space without a space is another 525.

12:39So the brand name that's just the direct variation of that is 3 ,500 of the 8 ,608. The Neil Patel Digital, only 141 clicks a month. And that's the third most popular keyword. How are you logging in so quickly to your service console? I'm already logged into Google. Oh, here. So you just go to - I'm going to look at single grain. So while we talk about that, I think we should, while I pull this up, we should talk about how to make more money with podcasting. So this is interesting. I was, this guy, I know, Sean, he has a company called Ridge.com and he has a podcast called the Nine Operators, which is nine figure e-commerce operators, right?

13:20There's a handful of them, like four operators on that podcast, which is interesting because there's a SaaS operators one that came out. But in my mind, this is like an agency operators one. But anyway, Sean tweets this like two days ago. He's like, yeah, you know, we make seven figures a year. They have like a three or four podcasts, but I don't think they get like a ton of downloads and like a good amount, right? I think you have very smart people listening to us. It's a good podcast. And I was like, man, like, how is that happening? Because that ain't what we're getting, right? So then I spoke to a podcast, let's say a podcast advertiser.

13:50He manages a couple brands. And I was like, okay, how much should we be making basically? He's like, yeah, you guys should be making way more. And I think for us, we want to have a situation. So the way the nine operators do it is they just have like a couple of pre-recorded mid-rolls and pre-rolls and that's it, right? You and I are down to do that. But if you asked me to do like, I have to do separate recordings for this and that, I have to make a show and this, like we need to focus on operating our business, right? And so all that to say is that, you know, we have a podcast partner right now.

14:22And, um, I think it's fine, but, um, you know, we want to see what we can do to, uh, amp it up when it comes to driving more revenue. And I think the way to make more money from podcast advertising, sometimes you just go direct to some of these companies. I agree. Someone hit us up direct the other day on, I added you down the WhatsApp thread. Yeah. And it was really simple. They're like, okay, this is two actually, there's someone else. There's another one. I didn't loop you on this one, but like, oh yeah, okay, well we'll do this. And it's a similar deal structure to the one you mentioned. Yeah.

14:51So I don't like doing these because here's the thing and we can move on from this but like there are sponsors like people do ask me it's like how do you get LinkedIn? How do you get Shopify? We do get LinkedIn. We do get Shopify and they do keep renewing but somehow somehow we're very poor. Yeah. What is the check? Yeah. So I don't know. Yeah. Yeah and we're not saying they don't pay. We're not insinuating that. No, no, no. We're saying they do pay And we're not saying Eric or I are stealing the money. No, but we would like to get paid more. Yes. Yeah. So what's the traffic on single grain? Okay.

15:27So we're looking at last 28 days, right? Yeah. Mine, for some reason, ends on October 19th, even though today's the 24th. Last 28 days. Okay. So my traffic is only 16.4 thousand now for organic. Wait, but when was your last update date? Was it October 19th? 10 hours ago. Yeah. No, no. But look at the chart. Mine says October 19th. Mine says this is 28 days, right? Yeah. last update is october 19th correct yeah that means they need an update on there and okay so we are looking at what we're looking at queries and click-through rate right yeah so you're at how many thousands of visitors 16 000 16 000 last 20 days okay so single grain is number one with 1 ,247 click-through rate okay single grain with no space or space with space yeah okay um and then after that it's like you know two three four are like these ai tools that we built but five is single grain no space, that's 142 clicks, 72 % click-through rate.

16:20Got it. Yeah. So that's what we look like. You said yours is what, like 3 ,000? When I, I just combined both. So when I combined single grain, I mean, NP Digital, NP Digital no space, Neil Patel Digital, because I assume they're all the same company name. Yep. We're at roughly 3 ,600 and change. Cool. So mine's at 1 ,300. And with the high click-through rate, I have to assume that they did intend to click a digital marketing agency page so my click-through rate should be higher np digital is 61.8 percent it's 70.9 for no space 12.7 percent for neil patel digital yeah okay because i'm assuming because my name if i add these other ones 15 1.5 1.6 but your your brand name gets a lot of traffic what's your click-through rate at single grain uh the highest one uh-huh 47 second one is 72 72 % is no space, right?

17:12Yeah. Yeah, I figured. Same with mine. My no space is 70%. My other one is 61.8%. The reason Eric's click-through rate is lower is because single grain could mean multiple things. Yeah. Well, here's the thing. But it does say clearly before you click it, it's a digital marketing agency. So I think they actually do understand what they're clicking. Because single grain is actually malt whiskey. People search for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I do think they're clicking the right thing. And also, you have quite a few people advertising on your name. I don't know if you saw that. No. Yeah.

17:49But that's normal. You guys don't allow it. We run ads on our own name. Yeah. When we looked at it a while back, it was expensive. So we had already basically... No, it becomes really cheap for your own brand name. Try running it. After you come in? Yeah, after you come in, it goes down. Oh, I didn't know that. We usually say, because your click-through rate's really high. Yeah. They're looking for you in the first place. So it tends to be pretty affordable. Speaking of SEO, so Matt Diggity tweeted this. It says, your SEO strategy is missing 41 % of potential customers. So basically, 41 % of Gen Z uses this marketing channel first.

18:24Which one do you think it is? 41 % use this marketing channel? 41 % of Gen Z, they use this marketing channel first. TikTok. Yeah. So it is scrolling Reddit, ChatGPT, and trusting TikTok recommendation. So this is Sprout Social's Q2 2025 survey. So only 32 % still use Google. 41 % of Gen Z now uses social platforms first. And so that's the shift that's happening, whether it's looking at Reddit or YouTube, checking reviews on Amazon, chat cheapity for alternatives. So Google, 32 % still big, but as marketers, we have to adapt. Because here's the thing, when you and I, let's say we're speaking at SEO conferences, SEOs like to stay just in one area.

19:06you've got to branch out at this point. Yes.

19:12Yeah, dude, you should... Seriously, if I would go back you should go run ads on your own brand name. Let me see yours here. You can pick the next topic. I don't see ads right now for mine. I don't know what software we use but when we see other ads it turns on and when there are no other ads it turns off so we're not burning. Oh, what are you using for that? I don't know. Just text me and I'll find out what it's called. Yeah, I'm going to text you right now. It saves us quite a bit of money. It saves our clients a lot of money too. I would like that. Because you don't want to bid on your own name when there's no one else bidding.

19:42Yeah, exactly. You don't want to bid when there's someone else bidding. Brand name bidding software. Okay, there we go. I'll find out from the team. Cool. But we've been using that for years. It saved a lot of our clients money too. Yeah. Oh, this is interesting. So Neil, when I search your thing, number three is you got some Reddit posts up here. For NP Digital? Uh-huh. NP Digital. I haven't seen. Dude, yeah. Let's get a community manager on that. Okay. Yeah. It says, something tells me I don't want to work here. Eric's too nice to say it. That's not for me to say. Yeah, they recently landed an interview.

20:19But that was nice of him for not saying, but I didn't mind just saying. But yeah. By the way, I mean, what you would do there is very simple. You would jump in yourself and respond. But Red is going to hate me if I respond. Why? It's an authentic response. I'm telling you, I've responded on Reddit before. They hate me. Well, if it's the same SEO community, then yeah, probably. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so I'm going to pick the next one. So you can pick. Here's an interesting fact, all right? They're telling me they don't want to end up working here. They've been doing pay-per-click, yada, yada, yada.

20:53I actually have this recent stat. Do you know what our churn rate is on pay-per-click clients? Per year? Yeah. I actually got this stat last week. Nope, 7%. That's close. It was close. It was close. But 7 % is really good churn. Yeah. That means we do good work with - Your clients. With pay-per-click. Yeah. So I know some people may not be happy when they interview with us because they don't get a job or whatnot, but that means the average client on pay-per-click lasts 14.28 years. We haven't been in business that long, but it's around 7%. Yeah, but that's, by the way, this reinforcement, when I talk to people more and more, all the AI stuff we're talking about, it means you have to make it harder and harder to join your company.

21:32And the way we set expectations, By the way, we interviewed a couple people for YouTube's jobs. So what are you paying for AI right now? Oh, yeah, I just don't. I borrow other people's stuff. Not good enough. Okay. What's the most impressive thing that you've done? Yesterday, we talked to somebody. This is the final stage of an SEO interview. What's the most impressive thing you've done with SEO? Well, with CRO, I did this. Wait, what? Right? So, yeah. Anyway, guys, that's it for today. Please don't forget to rate, view, subscribe. And we'll see you tomorrow.

22:03you