In short
Marketing School Podcast Summary
Episode Title
The AI Prompt That Writes $100k Sales And Email Copy For You
Hosts: Neil Patel and Eric Siu Description: In this episode, Neil and Eric discuss the transformative impact of AI on copywriting and marketing. They explore the balance between using AI effectively and the potential for laziness, the importance of human judgment, and ethical considerations in reputation management SEO.
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Key Takeaways
- AI as a Tool:
- AI can enhance productivity but may also lead to laziness in some users.
- Effective prompts still require human insight and refinement.
- Human Judgment Matters:
- Copywriting, especially persuasive copy, still benefits from human creativity and critical thinking.
- Ethics in Reputation Management SEO:
- There are ethical boundaries in using SEO tactics for reputation management, particularly in sensitive situations.
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Episode Highlights
Introduction to AI in Marketing (00:00)
- Discussion on how AI is being used in marketing and the implications for copywriting.
Neil's Perspective on AI Copywriting (02:05)
- Neil expresses his reluctance to use AI for copywriting, preferring to rely on his own skills for persuasive writing.
AI-Induced Laziness in Hiring (05:00)
- Concerns about candidates relying on AI for tasks without sufficient quality checks, leading to hiring issues.
AI as a Problem-Solving Tool (07:55)
- How AI can be used effectively to tackle specific challenges rather than as a crutch for lazy work.
Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO) Strategies (10:57)
- Discussion on how AI can personalize marketing efforts, including pop-ups and customer interactions.
Reputation Management and SEO (14:24)
- Insight into how reputation management works, referencing high-profile cases such as Jeffrey Epstein's use of SEO services.
Ethics and Accountability (18:56)
- The ethical implications of manipulating search results for reputation management. The importance of accountability in business practices.
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Detailed Discussions
AI Prompts and Their Effectiveness
- Neil's AI Prompt: A notable prompt that synthesizes copywriting wisdom from legendary marketers, emphasizing the need for human refinement.
Hiring Challenges
- Specific examples of candidates failing to perform quality checks on AI-generated work, leading to recruitment failures.
Real-World Applications
- CRO Popups: The hosts discuss the effectiveness of tailored pop-up messages and how they can enhance user engagement.
Reputation Management SEO
- The episode highlights how unethical use of SEO for reputation management can ultimately backfire, especially in sensitive situations that involve significant public scrutiny.
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Conclusion
- Final Thoughts:
- The hosts underline the necessity for marketers to balance AI usage with human effort and ethical considerations.
- AI can amplify personal attributes, whether positive or negative, thus shaping the future of marketing roles.
- Call to Action:
- Encourage listeners to reflect on their own work ethics and the implications of AI in their marketing practices.
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Additional Notes
- The episode emphasizes learning from failures and adapting to the evolving landscape of marketing influenced by AI.
- Neil and Eric advocate for a careful approach to incorporating AI tools while maintaining high standards for quality and ethics.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOIntroduction to AI in Marketing
0:36 to 2:34
Discover how AI tools can enhance marketing efforts and personalize customer interactions.
“is like dating someone who only texts emojis.”
The Power of a Marketing Prompt
2:34 to 4:14
Learn about a powerful AI prompt that can assist in creating effective marketing copy.
“And so this prompt has been incredible for me.”
Persuasive Copywriting and AI
4:14 to 7:19
Explore the debate on using AI for persuasive copywriting and its implications.
“One, I'm going to go on, add to your copywriting thing.”
The Role of AI in Job Performance
7:19 to 10:26
Understand how AI can impact job performance and the potential pitfalls of over-reliance on technology.
“they're like, well, that's what the test is showing.”
Finding the Balance with AI
10:26 to 12:34
Discuss the importance of balancing AI use with human oversight for best results.
“The example B that you gave, I look at that as smart.”
Refining Marketing Strategies
12:34 to 14:03
Learn how to refine marketing strategies using AI insights and human creativity.
“Reid Hoffman was acquired by this company.”
Driving Organic Traffic with AI
14:03 to 14:20
Learn how early adopters leverage AI for increased organic traffic.
“Right side of the pop-up says Carrot, ABM and DemandGen teams, right?”
Personalization in Marketing
14:20 to 15:14
Discover the impact of personalized ads and landing pages on conversion rates.
“So now my point is this is refined with a human being.”
The Importance of Copywriting Skills
15:14 to 16:18
Explore how copywriting skills can elevate marketing effectiveness.
“See, we just made an idea, baby, with AI.”
Reputation Management Insights
16:18 to 17:54
Understand how reputation management tactics are applied in SEO.
“I know you're not talking about my team.”
Show all 12 chapters
Ethics in Reputation Management
17:54 to 19:26
Discuss the ethical implications of managing reputations for those with issues.
“So I still think you can do a lot with reputation management.”
Consequences of Poor Choices
19:26 to 21:42
Reflect on the consequences faced by public figures due to their actions.
“But it's interesting to me too, because the person that posted this, 94 ,000 views, ton of bookmarks and things like that.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Did you know that most businesses only use 20 % of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out or paying for coffee that's one fifth full. Point is, you miss a lot unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference because when you know more, you grow more. And when you get a full cup of coffee, you can do more too, but I digress. Visit HubSpot.com today.
0:35using only 20 % of your business data is like dating someone who only texts emojis. First of all, that's annoying. And second, you're missing a lot of context. But that's how most businesses operate today, using only 20 % of their data. Unless you have HubSpot, where all the emails, call logs, and chat messages turn into insights to grow your business. Because all that data makes all the difference. I would know because I use HubSpot at my company. Learn more at HubSpot.com.
1:07Being a know-it-all used to be considered a bad thing, but in business, it's everything. Because right now, most businesses only use 20 % of their data unless you have HubSpot, where data that's buried in emails, call logs, and meeting notes become insights that help you grow your business. Because when you know more, you grow more. See, being a know-it-all isn't so bad. Visit HubSpot.com today to learn more.
1:34Nobody likes a spoiler, unless it's your customers telling you exactly what they need. But too bad most businesses miss out on these signals. The hits dropped in emails, the messages hidden in call logs and chats, all of it trapped in the digital ether. But with HubSpot, you get all this data in one place. Their customer platform brings together the insights you need to grow your business. And spoiler alert, the more you know, the more you grow. Visit hubspot.com to find out how today.
2:07Cutting your sales cycle in half sounds pretty impossible, but that's exactly what Sandler Training did with HubSpot. They used Breeze, HubSpot's AI tools, to tailor every customer interaction without losing their personal touch. And the results were pretty incredible. Click-through rates jumped 25%, qualified leads quadrupled, and people spent three times longer on their landing pages. Go to HubSpot.com to see how Breeze can help your business grow. I'm going to give you guys this prompt too. And so this prompt has been incredible for me. If you want a prompt that can basically handle a lot of the marketing copy for you.
2:41So this is a, it's like a 14 page document, right? What are the names here? Gary Halpert, Eugene Schwartz, Ogilvy, Kennedy. These are the old school OGs of marketing, right? Now what Neil is saying, I don't necessarily disagree with. Actually his angle is in here. There is an angle in here where we send them the personalized ads with examples, right? And so your job here is not to just take this for what it is, like the offer, free LinkedIn, ABM audit. Here's the ads that we made for you. Here's the assets delivered. Put this on Twitter for people. Yeah. We will. That's a good one. You should put it on X.
3:10But here's the email sequences over here. But look, it's a 14-page thing. And I did this with one prompt, right? And so it's a starting point because a lot of times when you're thinking about creating our YouTube long form, a lot of the pain is in the ideation in my mind, right? What I would say here is the prompt is basically, hey, before you write it, I want you to take the wisdom from the 10 best copywriters and email people in the world. And then I want you to refine this and score each copy, each version you give me, 0 through 100. Only return it to me when it's above 95 to 100. So it's going to do the work and score itself.
3:47And it's funny, when I made an SEO one, it actually put your name in there too. So it's such a good starting point when you can pull from all these, the wisdom of other people. But I think my real point here is the physics of business and marketing has changed. And for the majority of listening to this, I think you're motivated. But just know that going back to high output management, you're going to have to be willing to be a lot more confrontational a lot faster because this is actually exposing the people who don't want to put the work in. Yes. A few things. One, I'm going to go on, add to your copywriting thing.
4:22Eric sent me a version of my homepage using the template. I saw a little bit there. I've seen what you did with the Signal Reign website based on what you put on X. And of course, these emails that you just mentioned here. This is just my personal take. I don't like using AI to write copy. I have never liked it. I've tried it so many times. And I'm talking specifically for persuasive copywriting that convince people to try to convert. But I'm a little biased. I think I'm probably better than most people when it comes to writing persuasive copy. And I don't have a hard time coming up with ideas.
4:58So it's actually quicker for me to just write it out from scratch than it is to use AI and then modify it. And that's why I don't like using AI for persuasive copyright. But I do like using it for other things, like for visuals and stuff like that. I love using it. Like, hey, Parker's really cool. I don't know if you've played with that. It's a tool that helps you create a ton of AI creatives for Facebook ad campaigns. Oh, cool. Yes, we're checking out. And then the second thing is the thing that I see with AI right now that's really irritating me, it's causing people to get lazier and lazier.
5:34And here's what I mean by this. Yes, AI should be used alongside a human and it should be making them more efficient and better. but I was interviewing someone the other day and this person was from Europe and they wanted to work from us. They, and I gave them assignment. They ended up just doing the assignment and I could tell it was purely done through AI and they didn't check their work. And the reason I know that is there were some big errors in there where if they checked it with their quote unquote experience, they would have caught not one of them, not two of them. They would have caught at least three of them.
6:15And I just told them like, dude, this is not going to be a fit. There's three errors here. You didn't catch any of these major ones. Like, no, I didn't do AI. I spent a lot of time doing this. And I'm like, no, you didn't use AI, but I didn't care to argue with them. What role was this for? This role was for someone in data and analytics. Okay. Like pretty senior uh i don't know if it's senior but important important yeah so that's what i want to be involved in there because yeah i i end up helping with a lot of our a b tests and i'm very picky on how the data is presented to me and a lot of people present data that i believe is off because i'll double check it with things like daily signups versus traffic and then when you eliminate bots you can really see the conversion rates and they'll be like no look at this i'm like okay did you block the bot signups for people creating an account let's look at credit cards let's look at how many credit cards went through because some people could just be putting in credit card info to try to quote-unquote check if a credit card is real and do scams so then i look at how many stuff is through and i'm like so you ran the save e test using increased conversions 30 something ridiculous like that i'm like where are 30 more new paid credit card signups and they're like, well, that's what the test is showing.
7:26I'm like, the data is wrong. I don't see it in our backend of people actually swiping their credit cards. So I don't like data and analytics people who don't actually think things through just because the data shows you, well, did you dig deeper? Is it off? Are you going all the way down to bottom of funnel? Are you looking at which cards are sticking around? Are you looking at, did your message convince more people to sign up, but it screwed up the churn during the trial or the cancellations or even churn in month one or month two because you overpromise. Because if you overpromise, you get more assignments, but then people are going to be pissed off at you and it's going to hurt your brand.
7:58But the point I'm getting with this is I'm seeing more and more when I'm reviewing people for job interviews and other people on my team interview people first and then it comes to me and then others as well. But I'm just getting really irritated that people, at least in marketing type roles, are using a lot of AI for tasks and they don't just check their work. And this is like, dude, I don't blame you for using AI, but at least double check your work and make it better. That's why. So it's interesting to me before I come back to this topic. You know, the robotics company figure to this guy, Brett Adcock, he's their founder, CEO.
8:35So he posted to Twitter earlier this week or X. And he's like, guys, I'm paying 500 grand and I'll give you millions of dollars in stock options. OK, so here's what the job is, basically, or the assignment. and it was like a five minute assignment. And it's like a bunch of pop-ups. Remember like when you're back in the 90s, you just have pop-ups like scrolling through your screen. And so it's like, I want you to use a general agent or use anything. You can use AI if you want. It needs to solve this in five minutes. The problem is most people don't know how to do that. Nowadays, so what's interesting is you don't want people to do it that way, right?
9:07But I'm just saying, and I'm not saying there's a right or wrong way here, but his side is like, I'll hire you for 500 grand if you know how to use this general use stuff. And so I did this for fun. not like I'm looking for the job, but I wanted to see, I was like, okay. So I inserted the exact problem set into Manus, which is a meta is now a general AI thing, right? It literally solved it in five minutes and it sent me all the things like the formatting and all that. And I think that's what Brett, the CEO is looking for. He's looking for people that know how to think like that. And he knows the majority of people are not going to do that.
9:36Right. And he's filtering through them quickly. Now I'm like, okay, if I combine that along with, I have a, I have a GitHub, but open GitHub right now that says Beat Cloud. And so the whole idea here is for all the roles that we're hiring, they will click into like an assignment and then they need to fill out the written assignment. They can use AI, they can use all they want. But if they only match Cloud, it's not good enough, right? And the Cloud itself will grade them on it. And so I don't even want to talk now until they maybe get through this because it's going to save you a lot of time. Yeah, but the difference here is with the example you gave and I look at them as two different scenarios.
10:13The scenario A that I'm talking about is marketers are starting to use AI to just do their work and not even check it. Oh, yeah. And there's pushing out junk. Yeah. The example B that you gave, I look at that as smart. You got a problem and you're using AI to help you solve the problem. Yep. And then you can go and you can see if it's done right. It may or may not work. but you yourself are not a developer and you're just like, wait, I can actually use Mantis to help me solve this. Mantis. Mantis. Yeah. And use a specific prompt and let me see if it'll actually solve this problem. And you're trying to figure out what you can input it for it to understand the issue and then solve it.
10:59You're using your brain to help you solve a problem combined with AI for a skillset you don't naturally have, which is development. The other one, the example I gave is someone who's a marketer doesn't want to do their job using AI and AI does a shit version of the job. And they claim they did it all manually when we know they didn't spend more than five minutes on it. Yeah. And so I think the point we're trying to get at here is just like how I believe that money amplifies who you are. I actually think when you have artificial intelligence, it also amplifies who you are. Dude, I haven't heard anyone say it like that before.
11:34I think that's so true because we have a mutual friend. you know who I'm talking about he worked for you for a bit yeah he's using AI so much now and I'm like this guy doesn't like working of course he's using AI because AI is making it so he can get stuff done and not work and that's example of someone who wants to collect a check and put in no time now just being very blunt here I've told this person this to their face so I'm not trying going to say anything that they don't already know. Many times. Many times. Yeah, you know that. But I do believe what you're saying, which AI just brings out people's, quote unquote, natural work ethic more.
12:15So if you were lazy before, AI just is like, oh, wow, let me collect a check and be more lazy. Those people in my mind are going to get replaced and fired from an organization. Yeah. I think, look, I actually think, so actually, I'm not going to mention this guy because he's now in those files. but this one guy, tech guy, started one of the biggest companies in the world, used to say that you want to work for lazy people, but lazy smart people. Is this Reid Hoffman? No, no, no. The other one. Reid Hoffman was acquired by this company. Bill Gates. There you go. We don't know Bill Gates. Let me just say whoever.
12:48Who cares? I'm acting like he's a homie. Even like Melinda Gates. Did you see her response? Talk to him about it. Yeah. Yeah, she talked to him about my medication and potential STDs and whatever. And I was like, you know what? I have a topic that's related to SEO and that in a second. But so my point is, I think it's okay to think lazy, but as long as you're smart about it, you're gonna find ways around things, right? So the things that I'm showing you right now, again, guys, I'm not saying, hey, use that prompt as gospel and use that six, seven, eight out of 10. It's not good enough, right? You have to refine it yourself.
13:19And so the copy that we actually have on the SingleGrain site now and the ClickFlow site was refined by me. and it's going to continue to get better over time. Now, the last thing I'll show you, Neon, then we can move on from this one, is this pop-up. So we had a pop-up on Single Range site. It only pushed a carrot, right? I was like, okay, I'm going to have a pop-up and then what is it? I think Cloud Code did this, okay? So now the pop-up is two different adventures, right? Am I going to say that converse best? No, but it's better than just carrot, right? Because we have ClickFlow too. So it says two ways to fill your pipeline.
13:49Pick yours. Trusted by these companies over here. ClickFlow is our AI content isn't converting, right? So ClickFlow's AI plans and writes production grade content. So you don't need 10 more writers and editors. Early adopters average 27 % more organic traffic in six months. Okay, that's one side, left side. Right side of the pop-up says Carrot, ABM and DemandGen teams, right? That's for them. Our LinkedIn ads lack ABM personalization. Carrot generalizes personalized ads and landing pages for every target account. Minutes, not weeks. Our team has, one team has closed two deals from just 15 accounts in under two weeks.
14:20So now my point is this is refined with a human being. And this is, this is at least better than what we had than with sitting there for months. You want me to tell you a way that'll convert better? No, hold it up. No, I really want you want to copy it. You can copy, you can jack it. Go ahead. Okay. So it's, instead of two ways to fill your pipeline, I would have asked a question like, um, do you need more traffic? And they can click yes or no. That's a standard Neil Patel pop up. Wait, wait, check this out. If they say yes, then it'd be like, okay, okay, check out ClickFlow. It can help you with X, Y, and Z to get you more traffic, right?
14:55If they click no, I'll be like, congrats on having massive traffic. But I bet you're not getting enough sales. Why? Because your landing pages, et cetera, aren't personalized. And then like with Carrot, we can end up personalizing your ads, your landing pages. You can do it all within X amount of seconds. Fill out this information to learn more so that way you can get more conversions from the traffic you have. See, that's good. See, we just made an idea, baby, with AI. Sure. but I could have gave you that one beginning without AI. I would have not had, I would have, it was not this before, it was just carrot.
15:25No, but I could have gave you that without AI. But I wouldn't have thought about that to go to you about that. But anyway, my point is it's like also, okay, if we think about this, right? If you're to rate yourself as a copywriter or a CRO person percentile wise in the world, what percentile do you think you are? I don't want to say because it'll sound arrogant. Yeah, but exactly. That's my point. So let me say it for you, right? I think it's in the top one percentile. like within the top 1 % of the 1%. That's what I would say. Okay. Because this is all the stuff we've nerded out for on a very long time.
15:55Yeah, I've been doing this for 20 years. We are more biased and our standards are higher. But I am trying to make this more accessible for everyone to just say that, hey, like, look, this is whether you're using Claude Co-Work or Claude Code or whatever it is exactly or Manus, you can use all these things. That's all we're saying. I do agree. This is great work for average people. No, no, I'm not saying your team or anything, but I'm just saying like if... I know you're not talking about my team. I'm saying like, if someone's in marketing and they want to use air for this stuff, especially if you're new in your career, this will help bring you from a newbie beginner to intermediate, which I think is great.
16:31So can we talk about real quick, because we brought up his name and then we'll move over to the SaaSpocalypse. So do you know why Jeffrey Epstein paid for SEO? I didn't even know he paid for SEO, but I'm curious to hear this. Exactly. So they have discovery, right? There's all these leaked emails that came out. So literally Jeffrey Epstein was paying 10 grand a month for SEO services to hide his crime. So what he was doing, guys, was not necessarily, it's a subset of SEO. It's called reputation management. And he was trying to get the negative things people were saying about him pushed to the second or third page so people couldn't see it, right?
17:03So basically among the emails that came out recently were some between Epstein and his SEO service providers. Basically, he was paying roughly 10 grand a month for search suppression and reputation control. The tactics outlined in those emails are uncomfortable to read, but they also reveal how search systems actually work. So, um, Epstein's reps attempted to control Wikipedia because it sat at the top of the results. Okay. That's easier to manipulate, create multiple standalone sites and manufacture alternate alternative narratives. And then you build links to those to move them up. Okay. Push positive neutral coverage up with links.
17:31Okay. Uh, yeah. So if you see examples already, you know, on the first page or maybe top of the second page, you build links to those and move on. That's reputation management. Then you flood the index with adjacent entities and similar names, manipulate images, headlines, and associations, starve negative pages of reinforcement while amplifying others. So look, did he pay to do this? Yeah, but will this work long-term anymore? Probably not in the next couple of years. So I still think you can do a lot with reputation management. I got head up in maybe late November, early December. I get head up probably like four or five times a year for reputation management from people who have a lot of money.
18:10When I say a lot of money, I'm talking about people like on like Forbes list or they're not on the Forbes list, but they should be on the Forbes list if people really knew how much they were. Remember you hit up that VC and he responded really quickly to you? Yeah, he was a billionaire. I think, I'm pretty sure he's still on the Forbes list. Yeah. So like one of the ones in, it was either November or December, it came to me, it was a dude, really, really well off. He would have paid me a solid seven figures. My costs on it probably would have been 100, 200 grand. and when I say solid seven figures I'm not talking about a million dollars substantially more than that we didn't negotiate and fully get to the amount or anything like that because I didn't care but he did something to a woman or a girl I don't know what their age was and they settled and he wanted it all gone and I didn't say anything to him because I don't want to create enemies and I just say you know i first responded to it because they didn't tell me what it was or who it was for and then eventually they ended up telling me who it was and what it was for and how much they would pay and it's like screw you you did some shit to a girl deal with it you lay in the bed you you're slaying the bed that you created no that's what i was thinking so we just ignored him and was like screw i'm not gonna help him yeah if you want to screw it's like if you want reputation management because you're just like i'm making this example up but let's say you're saudi arabia saudi arabia is trying to take over golf in the u.s and buy the pga tour yeah who the heck cares yeah just honestly who really cares i don't think 99.9 of america cares you do something bad like that you deal with it that should stay on the internet that's your problem i just believe it's like some people have uh reputation issues for like silly things you know like uh but others they should take responsibility yes they should take responsibility so i i totally agree with that the final thing i'll say before we move on from this topic is um jeffrey's a he's a good negotiator here so he's like i was never i was never told never that there was a 10k fee per month you initially said the project would take 20 then another 10 then another 10 so he's like negotiating it.
20:21He doesn't like the cost tied to it. But it's interesting to me too, because the person that posted this, 94 ,000 views, ton of bookmarks and things like that. And I think he actually sells SEO. Yeah, he sells SEO. So good for him for getting all those impressions. I hope it drove some business for him. Yeah. And then I saw so many mentions online. Dude, the amount of texts I got from people that were in his list, people were sending me all the documents for Reid Hoffman. I was shocked that Peter Atiyah was in it. The doctor. You sent me the Instagram videos. I was looking at the comments. And then he left the protein bar company called David.
20:56He did? Yeah, he left, of course. Who's going to want to work with him? Another one who's in there is Jason Calacanis. And he's like, Hey, pal. He turned off comments on X. Even this is after he got committed. He's like, Hey, pal. Oh, man, you know more than I do. I was reading all this stuff. And this is like, you know what? Why would people want to do business with someone who's screwing over other people and girls and stuff like that? Like, that's not cool. Same with Bill Gates. I don't care how rich you are. You want to do funky stuff. You know, people should just lock some of these people up.
21:29They definitely should take responsibility. Not just responsibility. Some of these people need to be locked up. That's what I mean. If they're actually really committed. In my mind, if you've done this, taking responsibility is getting locked up. Like, not just buying your way out of it. Totally agree. So that's it for today, guys. Please don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe. And we will see you tomorrow.
From the publisher
In this episode, hosts Neil and Eric break down how AI is changing copywriting, marketing, and hiring standards. They debate when AI helps versus when it creates lazy work, share real examples from hiring and CRO testing, and explain why human judgment still matters. The conversation also dives into reputation management SEO, including how search suppression works and why ethics matter. A candid discussion on prompts, productivity, work ethic, and the future of marketing in an AI-driven world.
Key Takeaways
• AI amplifies skill or laziness in marketing
• Great prompts still require human judgment
• Reputation management SEO has ethical limits
Chapters
(00:00) AI marketing prompts explained
(02:05) Why Neil avoids AI copy
(05:00) AI laziness in hiring
(07:55) Using AI to solve problems
(10:57) CRO popups and personalization
(14:24) Reputation management SEO
(18:56) Ethics and accountability
