Why We Sell Multiple Products And Not One.. And Why That Makes Marketing Easier, How to Crush Modern Day Outbound Sales, Why There's No Discussion Of AI SEO, How To Build A $1B Network

0:03I want to talk about why we sell multiple products in that one and why that makes marketing easier. And then I'll tie that in with my topic. Yeah. So you and I have multiple products within our company. In our ad agencies, we both have different services, SEO, pay-per-click, email, conversion, the list goes on and on. We also have software companies. You also have software companies. And if I'm not mistaken, your salespeople for the agency sell some of the other stuff as well? Or do you have separate salespeople? The same. Same. And our salespeople sell everything as well. The reason we found this model to work out really well is because the moment you have more stuff to sell, it opens up more marketing channels and more audiences and it makes it easier to collect revenue.

0:50Yep. So this is what I wanted. So I had one here on this is basically a way to crush modern day outbound sales. If you I think the the more offers you have, the more funnels you have into like they're like gateway drugs into your services. sometimes might say it's a land and expand you might charge some company pepsi brazil or something three thousand dollars a month for a basic seo service and hope it expands and so i think you basically you increase your surface area of luck you increase your shots on goal and i think to to me at least the different features we have and i'm sure you've done this too but we splintered off a lot of our features and we're going to run them as different offers and so for example right now we're like oh we'll do you know with our our software click flow we'll do 100 internal links for you for free, or we'll consolidate, update, delete content for you for free, or we'll give you 25 ,000 words here for free.

1:39Right. And then that funnel is in, but then it's like, Oh wait, by the way, what are you doing with account-based marketing? And what are you doing with that LinkedIn ads over here? And so we try to figure out ways into either different products or different service. Oh, by the way, do you need to manage service for that too? If you're going to do these 25 ,000 words, you know, you're going to need someone to set up strategy for you. So we do try to combine them. And I'm sure you do the same thing with scout and all that. Yes. And the models worked out really well. Same with going back to, Hey, you're like Pepsi.

2:04Let me just do something for you for three grand, five grand, 10 grand. We try not to lose money, but we typically will take people smaller contracts when they're massive brands and we'll do unique deals. And the reason being is we know that if we do well from, let's say in Malaysia, I'm just picking a random country. Then I may get, you know, Hong Kong, Singapore, the rest of Southeast Asia. And then if I do well, I'll get the rest of APAC. And if I do well there, maybe they'll give me Europe or Latin America. and then you know america north america and now that contract that originally started at 30 40 000 bucks has turned into five million dollar annual deal and by the way this is why i mean these things take uh years sometimes to compound very we've never seen it happen quickly like don't get me wrong yes there's been an odd case where it happens like extremely fast in six months but in most cases it's a multi-year process to get into these organizations and sell throughout multiple regions because a person who's in charge of one line item like pay-per-click is usually a different person that's in charge of seo and the person who's in charge of seo in the u.s is different than in mexico or is different than in malaysia so then you got to find the people throughout the whole world that are responsible for those tasks and they don't all know each other and they don't all talk to each other you know what's interesting so i mentioned the 25 000 free words offer obviously the first if you're an seo your first inclination is going to be okay this seems like spammy AI content, right?

3:31But it's actually ultra high quality content that's human vetted from our side. But we have one enterprise right now that's piloting Carrot right now for the account-based marketing piece. And then they said their SEO team might be interested in the words. He's like, oh, this thing looks interesting. The paid media person, right? Maybe my SEO team might be interested. He thought it just makes sense for his business, right? But the moment it goes over to the content team, what do you think they say? No, we don't accept any AI content. No, we're good on that right and so i'm like oh it's not that the content's bad it's oh you're trying to protect your job i see what's happening here just an observation that i had i'm not saying everyone's like that but you know i can actually pivot over into this one over here i saw this guy that's making those jets you know what i'm talking about the boom jets like these new supersonic jets yeah yeah boom the company that has i think potential orders from like united airlines and a few others so founder ceo boom arrow so he tweeted this today he says most surprising thing to me about ai as of yet there's no discussion about equivalent of seo for ai so all these people start responding with all their products we're working on this right now we're doing this right now i just start to look at everyone's products this morning and so i respond here i'm like as i read through the comments it seems people are building ai tools that serve today's version of seo and that's fair because today's ai seo quote unquote is still very much traditional seo but the problem is these tools will become irrelevant because they aren't skating to where the puck is going so all this baloney everyone's talking about in the comments over here is just people are trying to optimize right yeah even the 25 000 words i just told you or the internal linking stuff that's just today's seo like i don't think it's anything particularly innovative i think it makes things a little easier i just think this stuff is going to completely change so all the crap you guys are talking about in these comments over here it's not ai seo you're just you're just a little bit you're making it traditional seo a little easier but it's all irrelevant in a couple years so someone pitched us the other day on automated ai i mean automated seo through ai we took the call we knew the person and you know the reputable mutual friend no you don't know they worked at i prospect in the past they have a new job somewhere else and they ended up coming to us and they're just like look at all this tech that we have that can do seo through ai and you don't need as many humans and we're like okay so it finds content gaps it helps you find keywords it tells you what to write on helps you write that kind of stuff gives you ideas on what to fix for duplicate titles and meta descriptions and i was just like this is nothing novel a lot of companies including ours have this i wouldn't say this is proprietary tech i would say this is just table stakes and this is nothing revolutionary this is just what it is right now and like you better if you're going to do this stuff, both of us, we should be passing the efficiencies over to our customers.

6:12And they expect that. That's all it is. That really all it is. And I was talking to Sujin last night. I was talking to randomly about SaaS companies and valuations. And we hopped on over to switching topics to SEO. And we were both talking about how everyone's saying that AI is going to replace services. And we're just like scratching our head. And we're like, yes, there's a lot of table stakes when it comes to AI and SEO or even pay-per-click, but that's just standard. Everyone's doing that. What's unique that you can do that AI can't easily do? What's unique that you have in your head for different creative strategies or campaigns that no one else has ever tried that you want to end up running?

6:55That's the stuff that's actually giving companies leverage. And those are the wins, but you got to find them. and what I think marketing shifting to, and I know you agree with this, it's not about AI replacing everything. It's that AI will do the basic mundane stuff that you can get C and D players to do all day long, maybe even some B player stuff, but you still need the A players and eventually you'll have agencies with just mainly A players. They'll get paid more and you'll have less B players and you may have some C players. you probably will have no dnf players yeah i i this is something i continue to repeat to my team over and over and i actually showed them that graph i made this chat gpt images graph right where it shows like your face at the top and then it shows like these happy ai bots and then under that there's like four ai bots per each one and then one person on the team she was like but i don't want to just be managing all these robots i was like that's not the point the point is make a list of all the things you hate doing right now you will not be doing those things anymore like the thing you like doing you like doing creative strategy you can do that all day and then you can all the other stuff you can eliminate and so everyone has different things that they hate that's how i look at this and then if you're an a player great you get to stay here right and i repeat this over and over so now people are down they understand when we let someone go they're like they understand yeah that person's not going into where we're trying to go and so i think it's on you as a leader to just keep repeating this because you know as a leader one of your jobs is to be the chief reminder officer it's like being a parent you have to just stop stop jumping off that thing stop jumping off that and they won't do it right so yes and on top of this not only will you not have to do the you know the stuff that's mundane boring that can easily be automated like the simple processes but the stuff you enjoy doing like let's say creative strategy like eric was talking about you should be able to do it more efficiently and better with the help of ai doesn't mean ai will replace you it should help you do your job better ai will replace you if You're mediocre.

8:52Yeah. Okay. So look, I mean, you and I are, I guess you're speaking at my event next week. So we have this, this summit. And so I have two that are kind of tied to this, how to build a billion dollar network or how to plan a private summit. Which one sounds more intriguing? The billion dollar network and then go with the summit. Okay. So I believe you have a multi-billion dollar network, if not trillion. I believe I have a multi-billion dollar network. I don't think I have a trillion dollar network. We both have multi-billion dollar networks. I believe. And so the way we define that is with the people that we know, how much are they worth?

9:25You just combine all their net worth. Right. And, but like it, to me, like, it doesn't mean, but to me, it's just like, do we know great people? And the thing I get asked over repeatedly over the years, I remember I was doing a podcast with Ali Abdaal and he was asking me this question. He was like, you know, how do you know all these people? Right. And you and I have, have met a lot of great people. I want to hear from your end, how you've met all these people. But for me, how I've built my network over the years is I started off by doing these mini meetings. And so these like mini master, we're in a little conference room right now, but I remember I had a dinner table like the size of this when I lived in Hawthorne and I would have marketing directors come over and we would host these dinners.

10:00Eventually these dinners became bigger. We do them at fancier restaurants. You don't have to do them at a fancy restaurant. We started doing happy hours in downtown LA at this bar upstairs. And then I started doing events, right? And then some of these dinners would have like 40 people. And then some of these events might have hundreds of people or whatever, right? But my point is, I forgot who I learned this from, but if you know how to become the connector or the node, everyone eventually figures out who you are and they know who you are. They just want to know like, oh, it's always Eric, the one that connecting everything.

10:28Even the dinner I did yesterday, the YPO dinner, nobody was really emailing for a while. So I got the group together. I said, hey, we're going to do it over here. Before they got there, I just ordered everything. And you want to make things easy for people. if you can put a great group of people together and then they can have a nice meal and then just make things like easy like done for you people are going to come back to you and you and i both know that everything in business is very much a people game you need to hire amazing people well if you meet amazing people they might know other amazing people or sometimes they might become your customers or they might refer you to somebody else i don't do these to try to necessarily make money but i know i'll make a lot of money in the long term um but that's not my objective i think all I've known in the past is just as long as I keep meeting people, amazing people that have my values, I know my network and my net worth will keep compounding.

11:14Yeah, I totally agree with that. And it's getting to know people on a personal level, because in that way, when you need help, they're much more likely to help you. I think the mistake most entrepreneurs make with networking is they meet someone, they don't really build a relationship, but they say, Oh, I'm connected with and then they think that they can just hit them up and ask them for favors. And I know we both get that a lot. Like people just messaging me and being like, Hey, can you do this for me? I'm like, met you once at a conference. I don't know you. You're asking me to promote your product and service on my social profile.

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13:35Shopify lets you easily create email and social media campaigns to reach customers wherever they are, whether they're scrolling or strolling. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your$1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash marketing school. Go to shopify.com slash marketing school, shopify.com slash marketing school. It's the, the, the, the problem with those people is they come in to networking and I hate using the word network. That's why you and I don't really call it network. I just call it relationship building because networking is very transactional.

14:13They want something out of it quickly and they're trying to angle their way into it. To me, relationship building takes a long time and I'm not really looking to get anything out of it i think the only time where i've asked you to say oh let's email it's only take your email list is only if it's favorable to both you and i i don't really ask like it's never been one way i don't think it has been you've never forced me either yeah i'll say hey this is a potential here's my what i might see with the numbers and you might run the numbers numbers look good we might do something if not that that's what it is and usually say if the numbers work out for you great if not no worries yeah and so there's no i think the problem most people have with building a network is there's an expectation.

14:48I don't really have an expectation with these relationships. And if they treat me well, I continue to treat them well. And then to your point, the one-on-one thing. So once I start to meet people, there's going to be people that you vibe with and people that you don't really vibe with. And you and I know like creators out there that are really popular and all that. We know them. They're more acquaintances to us, but there are people that I have genuine long-term relationships with. I'll do anything for. And those are the people that I want to keep around. So you have like, you'll filter eventually, like once you build this node around you or sorry once you become the node yeah and like for me i know networking is important but i i think i've kind of stopped networking you stop because you don't because one keep in mind guys neil you've been in business for like 25 years so in the very beginning you were networking like you would you had a podcast where you were interviewing jason calacanis you were going to events and things like that so you did play that circuit so there's a level to it i think eventually you might say i don't need that anymore yeah and plus your audience became big too audience became decent size.

15:42I think what's helped me more than anything else is understanding what helps me accomplish my goal. And that's usually not my own network. What helps me is hiring amazing people who have done it before, who already have the network. And I focus on just hiring them. And a lot of that is just outreach and trying to build relationships with them virtually. I haven't even met a lot of those people that work for me but i have virtually like on zoom or a you know skype call or whatsapp call no one uses skype anymore but yeah and then i just double down on that and i ignore everything else because i find that time is limited in this world so why spend it to do things like continually go out to dinners with people i'm not saying there's nothing wrong with that when i was single i did much more of that i had more time now you know like yesterday when you were at dinner i was like oh hey get home gotta get him in the shower gotta get him to eat dinner gotta get him in bed read stories we've got a busy day got a pack we're leaving on friday and yeah going to vegas but i had all these things in my mind so right when they came home i'm like how can i convince him to get into the shower right now and start taking a shower so it's just my mind is filled with so many of those things right just don't have time for everything let me can move on and talk about the summit and how this contributes to the network as well and why I'm even doing it for basically pro bono.

17:09You have created content for a very long time, right? Yeah. And I do think, and I've created content for a while too. I do think the content has gone a long way. So I believe my content has helped me, you know, get some of the partners that I've gotten, right? When I think about you, for example, I think Mike found you, Mike Camo found you through your content, correct? No. How did you find you? AJ, introduction. Oh, AJ. Okay. Got it. Okay. So So AJ, you've known since high school. So that's like - But most people find me through content. Your relationship and my relationship started because of your content, because I was calling you out for something on your blog.

17:40More so, I was asking questions. I wasn't really calling you out. Either one. But yeah, but it came from your content. So a lot of relationships that I've had, Yanni, for example, that's through content, right? Because he invited me to speak at his thing because you listened to my podcast in the very beginning, right? Syed, that was through content too, but in interesting ways, because let me make this connection. So Treehouse, The reason you got connected to Treehouse in the beginning was because of your content, right? Your content. Yes. Ryan Carson saw my content. I used to speak at his conferences.

18:09He had a conference back in the day. Then he did Treehouse and then he asked me marketing questions. And just to rewind for everyone here and then we'll move on. Treehouse is the online education company that I worked at. And then Neil was an advisor for that company for a little bit. And then so Ryan, who's the CEO and founder, found Neil. and then I found, I already knew Neil and I found Ryan's content through Kevin Rose, right? So like all this content does increase the surface area of luck to make you aware and want to reach out to somebody. And then eventually through our connection, eventually I got connected to Treehouse, right?

18:41But I'm just saying that you can build a network in many different ways. You can do it through just being really successful, like being really good at business, Elon Musk, right? Or you can do it through like compounding like networks or dinners or events, Like even Ryan did that too, or even like I did that, right. Or you can build content too, or you can combine these things as well. So, and then this all goes over to, okay, we're doing this private marketing summit next week, or more so I'm helping YPO with this. It's the YPO Global Marketing Summit in Miami. And, you know, it's like, okay, well, am I making any money from this?

19:14No, I'm not. In fact, I'm paying for my own flight. I'm sponsoring my own event. And, and then at the same time, I look at, and I'm not really upset about this or anything. I'm actually very excited for your own flight. Why people didn't pay for your flight? No, but why they pay for my flight beats me. But anyway, let's continue. So I see I'd even I wouldn't I'm not even aware of that until right now. Right. So anyway, and I might get in trouble for this, but whatever. They should pay for your flight and hotel room. Hotel room. They did. Okay. So anyway, the speakers, those are all my relationships.

19:47The venue, I picked it. The agenda, I picked it. Right. All these things. Right. And so I'm very excited about this. But the key thing is it's pro bono, right? And so people are asking me, like even white peers are asking me, they're like, why are you doing this pro bono? Like what's in it for you? The thing that I've realized over the years is that these things will all come back to me in some way, shape or form. And sure, this was a lot of work to do for pro bono, but I just know that when you have 180 people coming and they're all business operators, like people know other people and all that, and it will come back to help me.

20:19And so I think you have to look at it that way. This is a situation where it's proof that I'm just looking to play the long game here. And there's no immediate gratification. It's delayed gratification. Do you like YPO? I do. I like the people that I meet in YPO. That being said, I'll compare it to entrepreneurs organization. Entrepreneurs organizations, all entrepreneurs, the requirements are lower. But when I meet other entrepreneurs, there's a different vibe. And it's not saying YPO is bad. YPO has like family money and then you have like founders and then you have like hired guns. There's just a different vibe.

20:51it's different perspectives but i think with you and me like entrepreneurs like we what i said said earlier we know how to tsu ku we know how to eat eat eat shit it's not really eat shit but it's like you know um ku actually means it's like bitter eat bitterness that's what it is yeah yeah i've been in ypo i think two years now oh you're still in yeah i don't think i'll ever join again i think that okay we can move on from this and then we can talk about how to plan a private summit or whatever else you want to go into but the if you had a forum like one of our mutual friends where it was like all very like successful investors and the yp and one guy owns one of the largest car companies in the world and then another like that's the kind of group you want to be in i think you just haven't found that yet but it takes time to find well no so i was in beverly hills originally with you good group of people i don't want to keep driving to the meetings because they weren't in beverly hills they were actually in santa monica i only go to local meetings oh okay so i stopped doing that and then i tried to switch chapters so i joined one year but i think it's called global one is that the online one and i was trying to get into is it los angeles gold is what it's called yeah but you can't you're not old enough i tried and they were trying to figure out a way but i got denied because of my age and then i think i would have been happy with los angeles gold but the problem is i think you have to be like 50 or You have to be like 50, 55.

22:13Yeah. So you're not quite there yet. I need another 10 more years. Yeah. Yeah. So my point is for Neil, this is not necessarily a bad thing, but he, and by the way, okay. So, so here's the thing I'll say, and then we can move on from this. Yesterday I started, I joined a YPO SaaS forum. So it's all SaaS founders in there and there's a ton of business value in there. And I think that's what you want. You want more business value than anything. Like you're not here to party or anything like that. It's just, and I think if you could, Neil's perspective, and this is not incorrect. It's more so you want to hang out with people at your level or above your level so you can learn.

22:44Right. And those pockets are available. This is a delayed gratification thing. I think I think it just takes a little time to get used to it. I got to wait 10 years for gold. But like I just mean right now, even right now, our mutual friend, he's the only 30 year old in that group and everyone else is like 50, 60. Yeah. And I know there's big hitters in a lot of different YPO groups. But I mean, David Sachs is like you. Yeah, but what I found is the biggest hitters tend to be in YPO gold. Yeah, because they're older. Because it takes time to. You think it's normal for you to have the success you have right now.

23:16I don't have that much success. Mark Zuckerberg is my agent. He's way richer than me. He would never touch YPO. At that point, they have their like billion, trillionary YPO. But that's why I wanted to join gold because I was like, oh, cool. Similar size businesses and then you can. Just to share. I mean, you can share some of the stories you heard. Some of these people have done like, you know, very big deals. These are like multi-billion dollar deals or like hundreds of millions of deals. I'm not hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm not going to name, you know, but these are the types of people you want to interact with.

23:45Yeah, but most of them are on YPO gold. I know. How do you? Okay. We'll end on this one. So like on the YPO piece, I think if you get more involved, you start like, this is why I'm getting more involved with this thing. So I'll start to know more people in gold. And the more people, you know, the more they're going to pull strings for you to make things happen. That's my point. Yeah. But Neil just doesn't want to do that right now. No, I don't want to do the work. Yeah. So here, just wait 10 years. yeah yeah i'll wait 10 years yeah but anyway guys um hope you guys enjoyed that session that is it for today we're gonna be recording in miami using my dj osmo next week neil and i will be and uh we'll see you in miami