Your Personal Brand is Boring | Chris Do

0:29All right, Marketing School listeners. ado, enjoy the episode. What else goes into building that good personal brand? Like there's also like the look, right? What else? Yeah, there's parts to that. So let's start with the meatiest to like the lightest, right? If you're talking about personal branding and I have a very different view than how most people talk about it, because I think the word branding is super popular. So like, well, corporate branding. And then if you have any kind of following, they're like, well, I have a personal brand. Do you? Who are you? What do you stand for? Can I predict what you're going to do next.

0:59Who are you in real life on and off camera? That's your personal brand. In order for me to get to know that, you actually have to show something where you're actually a vulnerable, real human being. And so few people are ready to do that. They're always holding things back because they're fearful of judgment. They're fearful of like backlash or being canceled or like people like that version of me. And maybe they're right. So you kind of live this double life. There's the real you that you show that face to a few people in your world. And there's a super fake version of you that lives online. So I don't care if you have 300 ,000 followers.

1:33I don't care if you have 10 million followers. If you're not showing what's real, I don't know what your personal brand is. And if there isn't this irrational emotional connection that your audience and your community have with you, that they're willing to go to bat for you, that they're willing to do anything to help you, then I don't really know if you have a personal brand. You're a content creator. You know how to work with algorithm. But who are you? And we need to know that. And so I've even fallen down this trap myself because I think, hey, if I talk about me, it's really just not that interesting.

2:07I need to keep teaching. I need to keep teaching. But you know what posts blow up when I'm like, here's who I am as a person. And here's why I do what I do. And so there has to be that mix. And so when you tell a personal story, you bring in more people, but you need to deliver it with a point. Otherwise, it becomes kind of like self-indulgent at that point. So you graciously spoke at one of my events maybe a year ago or so. Thank you for doing that. Of course. And Sam Evans is there. You're sitting next to Sam Evans. So famously, he's consulting.com. He's got school now. But what did he tell you to do and what was the result?

2:42I want to paint the picture. I don't know if you remember the movie Desperado. Antonio Banderas, he's described as Diablo. It's like this crazy gunslinger. And in the opening sequence, he's walking in and out of the shadows. So as soon as we catch a glimpse of his face, he walks back into the shadows. It's kind of wild. So Sam Ovens is sitting in the left corner of the table. And he's pretty much in the shadows the whole time. He doesn't say anything. He's a pretty unassuming guy. And then later on, he goes, hey, Chris, it's Sam. I'm like, hey, Sam, I know who you are. We start talking. He's like, he inceptions me with this idea that I can run a mastermind.

3:14And I said, I've been thinking about this. I don't know the structure. I don't know how to do this. He lays out the blueprint. this guy makes everything sound super easy. It could be his sweet Australian accent or whatever it is, his demeanor, he's super low key. He goes, I don't have 200 ,000 followers on my YouTube channel. You have 2 million, you have 10X, and you can do this. So for the next six, seven, eight months, I've been working on figuring out the offer and what is the product? What is the pitch, right? Working on that, I discovered, my God, I'm just doing the same thing at a higher ticket price, and this is not going to work.

3:47selling business design to more creatives at the price in which we're talking about which is 36 000 for a year was just like what no i don't think i know that many people can enroll in this and it was then through this period of discovery a little bit of not depression but like man this sucks everything i've done so far has just worked so this is just a giant helping of humble pie yeah and then i said okay you know what i i was teaching at a different group where they're all business people and they wanted me to talk about personal branding. And I thought, oh, this is a content mismatch, but they got really lit up and they were hounding me afterwards.

4:23Like, what can I buy? What else are you teaching? I was like, nothing. I have nothing for you. My market, my community is creatives. I have nothing for business people. Well, I went back, retooled the whole thing, and now we're off to the races. I love it. And I think, so when Sam shared the numbers on his mastermind back in the past, he was doing, I think, 6 million a year on the mastermind and most of it was profit because the team wasn't that big yeah and it was that i think that's what attracted everyone because i think he told a lot of people at that dinner it's like he did do a mastermind right and i think a lot of people try to do a mastermind vanessa lao ended up doing one we should talk about this right i think everybody with an earshot of this conversation decided they're going to do a mastermind yeah so vanessa lao our mutual friend she's out of the gate first and she executes like a crazy mad person and she already did her first meeting i'm I'm like, I'm still figuring out my offer right now.

5:09And she's already doing it. And unfortunately for Vanessa, she hit burnout super fast, shut down her mastermind. And then I became friends with Amen afterwards. And he's like, I'm going to do a mastermind. That's right. Right? Yeah. And then I was chatting with him. He's like, no, I'm not doing a mastermind. I'm just doing one-on-one coaching. It's working well. I'm just going to keep it like that. Who else did a mastermind? Is there anybody else that we know of? In that group? I don't think so. I think it was three. It was just the three of us. The tres amigos. And I was the last one to execute, last one to figure it out.

5:36this is unlike me. I'm usually much quicker to take action, but having taken a couple of stabs at it, it's like, that's not right. The product doesn't meet the market, find the right product market fit. And eventually I think I did. We should talk about it more. Cause I think, I guess the events, I don't like calling it a mastermind. I guess it kind of is a mastermind in a sense, but you know, the way I'm structuring it, it's only it's once per year. And it's like, you know, let's call it could be anywhere like 10 grand plus to take it or something like that. Right. Um, but yours, how is yours structured?

6:03Okay. Mine is structured very simply. And And I did really get inspired by Sam and that he's like, if you're adding so much to this, then you have to start to ask yourself, why are they showing up? And he said, they're showing up because I want access to you and your brain and then to each other. Focus on that. So I started stripping everything away, all the accoutrements, just strip it down. So we do one call a week via Zoom and it's an hour and a half. Sometimes it takes two hours and there's a hot seat style coaching. So somebody already knows they're going to be the one in the hot seat and we do whiteboarding.

6:34So they tell me, here's what I'm working on. Take a look at this. And I give very nuanced, articulated feedback. So I'm looking at your headline. This isn't working. Your image is off. Turn it like this to change the proportion ratio. And then A-B test this. And next week, we'll talk again. And unlike most of my coaching groups, it usually falls. And then some people do. Most people don't do anything. You know that. But this group in particular, because of the amount of money they've invested, because of who they are, we turned away a lot of people because we wanted to make sure this beta group, this founder series are really good because we want to be able to brag about their success.

7:08We want to see progress. And they all take massive action. Got it. And so it's four calls a month, right? Four calls a month. And they're paying 18 grand over how many months? Over six months. So it's essentially three grand a month. But you got to buy the whole chunk. You can't just hop in and out. Got it. And how are you, because you have like 2.3 million subs on YouTube. Not that subs are everything, but you have an audience is my point. How are you getting these people in? And how many, I guess, how many Mastermind members are there right now? There are a total of 11, I believe. It's either 10 or 11.

7:39I think somebody just added. And the way that we were marketing it was through announcing it via Instagram through our carousel saying, hey, put in this keyword. If you say this, then we'll get you through a score app. You'll fill out answers to a quiz. And only super qualified people then get on a coaching, not a coaching call, a sales call with me. And I'm doing all the sales call myself. You're not going to get passed on somebody else. There's a bunch of people that are not a good fit. there's a bunch of creatives who don't meet the minimum criteria of content team and revenue so we have to keep saying no to those people on purpose like come back when you're ready you're not ready right now and we didn't really leverage our youtube audience which i think i underestimated in terms like the reach we should have gone hard on linkedin as hard as we did on instagram and on tiktok and youtube we didn't even announce it on youtube yeah i mean i would argue i think it's I feel like it's the right move because you're still testing product market fit right now.

8:35So I think eventually you'll probably roll it out and far down the road, you'll probably be retargeting that audience. Like, I don't know. Possibly. There's a lot of people who express interest in it. And even to this day, there's activations that people type in and I tell them the price and then they don't really go much beyond that. It's like, I'm very upfront with pricing. I know in many instances with masterminds, you have to go pretty deep into it before you even find the price. Like you're committed to a sales call. I just want people to know this because I know my audience is broad and I don't want to really get in a call where they're making a hundred thousand dollars a year and they're going to spend 18 grand with me.

9:10It's unconscionable for me. I don't want it. It's not going to work. So do you, I've like, for example, for the, the all in summit, right? They have this conference and it's like straight up. It's just like, it's 7 ,500 a ticket. Like there's no qualification or anything. Do you say that in your like form? It's like, Hey, it's just going to be 18 grand or no, we tell them that there are three things that you must have. Number one is you, you must have some kind of demonstrable expertise. It's important for us because I'm not going to teach you your expertise. So if you come in like, how do I design?

9:35How do I market? It's like, this is not what it's about. Number two, you have to be dedicated to creating content. So if you've not created content before, we'll tell you this isn't it because you're just looking for basics and we're going beyond basics. Okay. Number three, you have to believe in the value of long-term brand building. And a soft criteria is you must be able to already have a team or be able to hire a team to help you because we know as an entrepreneur, if we work with you, if you don't have a team, this is not going to get done. You need cinematographers, you need writers, you need designers.

10:06It doesn't have to be a full-time team. It doesn't have to cost you a lot of money, but you do need to be able to delegate this work to someone that's going to be a failure otherwise. Got it. And what revenue-wise is the sweet spot for, I guess, these prospects? I would say anywhere between, on a revenue basis, somewhere really close to a million. So if they're$750, that's fine. And I would say if they're beyond$5 million, that they probably want to buy into a much more pricier mastermind than this. I think I can help them, but I just think it's going to feel weird for them. Do you have this question?

10:35So we have this one question for like our event when you apply for it. It's basically like, have you paid for a mastermind before or invested in something like this? And like the people that close the sales are just like that question like determines, like it affects the conversion rate majorly. Okay. It's like if they're down to pay for this stuff, they're like, you know what I mean? Yeah. So, you know, it's really interesting because I'll backtrack a story here. I spoke at Neil Dingare's at Ford event. A thousand people were there, mostly people in the real estate mortgage financial space, right?

11:06A woman that I didn't know, her and her husband, saw me speak there, connected like in terms of like, hey, we like what you do. I announced that I was doing a brand strategy workshop in Miami. They showed up. I didn't make the connection. And then they outed themselves. We're not designers. We're here. We love this. So we're just going to buy whatever you make. And then they're like, tell me about the brand lab thing. Told them they signed up like a week later. So you're right. People who are invested in personal development, who've joined masterminds before, who fly all over the country to do events and workshops.

11:39They're my people. They're ready to go. I love that. Yeah. I think some people poo-poo on masterminds or courses or whatever. I just think it's like this is just a monetization model and it works. I think the way you do it is you do it in a very tasteful way and you're very meticulous about how you do it. It's not just like a cash grab for you. Yeah, I don't think you're lazy about it is my point. Yeah, because I believe in the long-term value of this because if we do this right, it's not a$6 million business, but it's a$3.6 million business that I get to coach and work with some of the people that really inspire me that I love and like a lot.

12:11So if I could just keep doing that, that's fantastic. And then we get to open the doors to, now we get to play. Once the business model is set up and the revenue is coming in, as you said, it's mostly exchange of information. so the profit margins are very high. It means I get to do some really cool stuff. So we sent like little boxes to people. There's some other surprises we're going to send to them. I didn't want to make it about that. That's just like, hey, here's a little surprise. That's all. Do you think like the next level would be, okay, you coach some of these people up. Let's say they get to like 10 million or whatever.

12:42Are you going to try to maybe invest in their company, take some equity? Like what's the play there? The Hormozy play? The Hormozy play. I'm not a good operator. I'm not really good at managing other people's business. So it'd be dead money for me. But you'd be coaching for equity almost. Oh, okay. Yeah. I haven't thought of it that far yet. So here's what I really think. Brand Lab is about helping people who are authorities in their space get to the next level. Public speaking, writing a book, or just growing their audience to create opportunities for them and whatever else, right? It's authority building.

13:13And I get to apply all the things I've learned in practice over the last eight or nine years, and I get to help them. I think by virtue of them lifting up their personal brand there's going to be a business benefit we're not so focused on the business aspect so if they're like hey I need to make three to six million I'm like yeah that's business coaching call me one-on-one let's do that it's not really for this it's really like it says it's for building personal brands so it's the brand lab I love it what is um I guess what is when people talk about building a brand like I guess do you tell them to go any specific channel?

13:47Like what, I guess, what are like the core fundamentals that you're teaching them? Okay, very good question. So it's hot seat style coaching. There is no curriculum. There is no coursework. It's tailored for each person. So as I'm figuring out what each person is trying to do, I will say, hey, I need you to read this book. But actually, I need you to listen to the audio book or here's a YouTube video. So it's really curated for individuals like what it is that you're going to do. Now, if you're listening on the call and you're like, man, I need help with that. Yeah, it's going to work for you.

14:17You're going to consume the same pieces of content. But each person has a different problem because they're at different stages in the game. And they're trying to do different things. Today's coaching call was about how do I tell my story? I'm a little sloppy. I know when I go to do public speaking, it's inspirational. I move people. And then they go and tell me a little bit of their story. It's a little bit all over the place. So let's refine. Let's bring it down. Let's boil down the idea. And they got so much clarity from that. and I was like, okay, that's where that person's at. And that's fantastic.

14:46Someone's not even in that public speaking space. They want to just grow on LinkedIn. So we look at content then. We look at content strategy or content repurposing or understanding like, what is your podcast doing? Let me look at that with you. When I first started my business, the overwhelm was real. I didn't have the tools to help me scale. If only I had Shopify from the start to handle all the behind the scenes work. Shopify is the platform behind millions of businesses globally from huge names like Mattel and Gymshark to the smallest brands just getting started. The best part about it, it has everything you could need.

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17:01That's framer.com, promo code MS, framer.com, promo code MS. Rules and restrictions may apply. It's very hands-on in that way. I love it. And I guess the group coaching aspect. So I know the way Sam did it in the past was like, okay, have a bunch of people come to the classroom. And then like, they just, what do you guys want to talk about today? I think we're watching some of the videos. So for you, it's people show up hot seat style, I guess over 90 minutes, how many hot seats are you doing? I'm trying to figure out how that workflow looks. Okay. At most, it's going to be three. It'll be at least one.

17:33It depends on, and I want to keep it flexible. I talked to my guy who helps me run the program. I said, I always want to have one person on deck and one person in the queue. So in case this gets resolved or we can't figure it out because they're not prepared, we're like, okay, we're going to pause. We're going to bring the other person in. And then naturally, each person tries to pull it apart. They contribute to it. It's a very organic conversation. Most of the times I'm leading it, but sometimes people are like, hey, I have some tips on how to do that with SEO or AI. And I love that because everybody brings in their own expertise.

18:05It is very much a mastermind in that situation. Do you think this model scales? Because you're at 11 right now. It seems to work out. But once you get to like 50 people, do you think they're all on the same call? That's a very good question. I don't think so. My feeling is if you're a seven, eight figure entrepreneur, you're not going to want to sit on every call. There's some people who have told me, I really just enjoy the call watching you coach. I'm going to be there for as many calls as possible. But I think what it is, is we're going to talk to Betty next week. And Betty's got a problem around this.

18:37Her videos need some help. So anybody who's like, video, video, you should tune in. But we also allow people to bring in their assistants, their partners, so that they don't have to then relay that information. So if you're in the hot seat, you're allowed to bring in your friends. When I say your friends, meaning your project manager, designer, your copywriter, and they're listening. I'm only interacting with the BrandLoud member, but then their teams are listening. Got it. We're trying to save as many steps as possible. Thankfully now, Zoom has those call summaries. They get the call summary, they get the PDF of the whiteboard, and of course, everybody gets access to the recorded call.

19:14I love it. And so your ambition here, you said 3.6 million, so you would get this to like 200 members or so? That would be$100 ,000 because it's$36 ,000 for a year,$18 ,000 for half a year. Got it. And I like this half-year idea, which I got from Jasmine Starr. She's like, just cut it to six months because what if you don't like it? What if you don't like these people? You couldn't discourage them from re-enrolling next time. Because there's always going to be people you can't make happy. You don't want to deal with them for a year. It's too long of a commitment. And what if like eight months in, they're like, this is Ms.

19:45Rob. I want my money back. Well, you just screwed yourself. So I like this six-month idea. It's a shorter sprint. It makes it easier because then we just enroll people twice a year. So hopefully people who get value, they re-up. But if they got what they needed, happy to send them on their way. Hopefully they tell a couple of people and then this thing will grow. Got it. I love it. Yeah. So that's the mastermind component. Can you update us on the business right now? So like what are the main focuses around the business and anything you can share? So it could be reach, could be revenue, whatever you're open to sharing.

20:15I'll share anything that you want to know about. I'm pretty transparent about everything. Overall, we found that this year to be a down year for us, which is a little depressing for me because I only want to move one direction, right? So I think we're going to net out between 3.7 to 3.8 this year, which is down quite a bit from last year, which is like 4.4, 4.3. I want it to be a six or 7 million. So we have to focus up. I think the thing is, as we're figuring out different business models, we have a pretty thin team relative to the different initiatives that we're doing. And we need to focus up.

20:46So we got to consolidate our team and figure out what the new plan is. and I'm using this winter holiday to kind of do a decompress, to get some perspective, zoom all the way out, and think about what it is that we need to do. I've been mostly focused on creating content, running workshops, and just being a part of the community. So I've left marketing alone. I've left warm outreach. I've left all the ways that we can make money alone, and I think I have to put my face in that for a period of time so that all the brains can be working on it at the same time. Got it. What's the approximate reach?

21:17Like how many eyeballs are you getting per month right now across socials? I think our reach is incredible. It's one of the things that we don't need to fix, thankfully. So some of our videos get between on YouTube between, see on the low end, I'm going to say 15 ,000 views for like, I would say that's like the bottom, the basement. And some of our videos within a month are getting 400 ,000 views. And there's a wide spectrum in between. I would say a good video is going to give 100 ,000 views. and if an average video gets like six or seven minutes, that's a lot of time being spent watching the content.

21:51So we're pretty happy with that. We're picking up about 15 ,000 new subs every month. Revenue is about$10 ,000 as AdSense. So the channel makes a little over 120 grand a year just as a straight up passive income. Of course, there are brand deals, which I'm very excited about. LinkedIn reach is really, really good. I'm growing there between 100 to 650 new followers every single day wow and I don't even post that often so there is a bit of that momentum right you got the big mo working for you so as soon as you start creating enough content people start tagging you they start resharing your youtube videos or instagram carousels and I'm not one of those creators like hey how dare you repurpose my content yeah to benefit yourself well thank you I appreciate it yeah and you're just helping me get the name out yeah and my instagram if i'm consistent on i get decent reach maybe 300 000 uh i don't know what they call it 300 000 what is it accounts or whatever no it's like um it's let's just say reach i don't know what the impressions impressions that's it yeah 300 000 impressions every seven days or something like that now if i'm consistently dropping carousels and and and reels my that number will go way way up yeah but i'm i'm fairly inconsistent with that but I'm getting better.