How The Harvard Business Review Thinks About Content

0:00I love your answer. Like we got it. We got it. We got it. We got it. We got it. We got it. different audiences that are certainly on all the platforms, yet that's a big, that's a big comment. Yeah. The one thing that we don't do is we don't flood the feed. Like we're not interested in publishing a hundred stories a day that are kind of mediocre. Sometimes our website will publish three or four stories a day and that's it. And our magazine has eight features that come out every two months, but you know, those stories and those features are really worth publishing and they will generate a ton of conversation.

0:32They'll give you a lot of ideas. Like I've had friends who say like, oh, you work for HBR, that's too expensive. And I'll be like, if I told you that for 20 bucks, I could give you an idea that would change the way you have meetings for the rest of the year, isn't that worth 20 bucks? That's a great response.

0:53Hello, everyone. It's such a privilege to have some really interesting and amazing human beings that get to come into our studio. Let me tell you a little bit about John Corpix. John is the vice president and executive creative director at Harvard Business Review and Harvard Business Publishing. John oversees print, digital product, content, and brand design. And he's got a career that spanned over two decades. He has brought this creative vision to a very diverse array of projects. We're talking about from dressing movie stars to designing charter school applications. I even saw something about an Uber bike connection, Uber bike delivery on the LinkedIn.

1:42He has an incredibly unique background and I would imagine that has shaped his approach to storytelling and problem solving across various media platforms. So at Harvard Business Review, John leads the creative strategy for one of the world's most respected business publications, guiding the visual, the editorial direction in both print and digital. And I would say that his work is instrumental in making complex business concepts accessible and engaging to a much more global audience of executives and aspiring leaders and everyone in between. John, welcome to the show. Jeremy, thanks very much for having me.

2:28It's great to be here. I'm looking over my shoulder for the person you just described. I haven't seen him yet. I appreciate that introduction. Thank you. I was mentioning to you in the prep before we, you know, press record that HBR has been, And, you know, that's been such a valuable resource to me as someone who's worked across many different organizations and many teams. It just has become that go-to. I mean, it's at the top of my, it's bookmarked, you know, paid subscriber. It's the thing that I go to all the time. One for what's new, what's relevant, but also like what can actually help shape me in my career.

3:04So this one is super interesting to me just as a user and a fan of the work. But I want to ask you because there's something stuck out to me, which I mentioned in the prep is your background. I mean, you have the wildest, most amazing background that I've seen truly of anyone that's come on the show. And so I know that has shaped your perspective. And I just want to understand how, like how have these various things really positioned you to do the work you're doing now at HBR and HPB? Well, I would say I certainly didn't plan this career trajectory. It wasn't something I set out to do to begin with.

3:42But I think that there's an undercurrent there of me sort of just feeling anxious and needing to move on and learn more stuff. And so, you know, I have bounced around a lot. I started working at mostly, you know, consumer publications, places like Entertainment Weekly and GQ and Premiere Magazine, and then, you know, kind of pivoted into digital product at Fortune and ESPN. And there were some bumps along the way, you know, when I was sort of not working consistently, I wound up being a bike messenger, working at a charter school in Harlem. them. I think I've always been one of those people that just doesn't like to sit around doing nothing.

4:22So if I find myself idle, I will sort of, you know, force myself to figure out where I can be useful. The thing that all of that has done to shape my perspective is it just sort of humbles me. Like I always know that you're sort of one step away from maybe having to find that next job or one step away from maybe having to reinvent yourself. And all of that just kind of keeps things in perspective. So when I come into a job, I know what I know what I'm trying to set out to do. I'm working for the audience. I'm working for my partners. I'm working for the people who are paying the subscribers, the subscription fees.

4:58And, you know, that kind of is my North star is like, how can I be most useful? How can I apply my life experience to figure out the best way to tell these stories and the best way to sort of position the brand? You said one of our favorite words in our media company, and that is storytelling. I think it's fascinating, especially, again, the context of storytelling in where we're at now. Short-form content and diminishing attention spans are a real thing, right? And then you have HBR, a lot of long-form articles. They still remain engaging and very relevant. How do you balance that in terms of storytelling because it seems like the acceleration is happening so quickly.

5:41And so how do you kind of take a beat there, realize that there's a lot changing and how people consume content is changing and you've got to be at the cutting edge or you'll be on the bleeding edge. How do you approach that? All of the different ways that people interact with stories are very platform dependent. So when I come into TikTok or Instagram or YouTube, there's an expectation that I'm there for 15 second reels or 30 second clips. But if I come in to a print product, if I come into a magazine, the expectation is I'm there because I want to actually sit back and relax and read something and enjoy it.

6:16So all I say is that we have to be, we have to be good at all of these different types of storytelling. And that, you know, wherever we meet, wherever the audience wants to engage with us, we have to be really good at telling stories in that environment. So we have found that when you're on YouTube, there is actually an audience for longer form video. Like we have short form video on YouTube, but videos that are seven, eight, 10 minutes long actually resonate. People want deep dive content. They're not coming to TikTok for deep dive content, but they are coming to YouTube for it. They're not coming to Instagram for it, but they're going to our website and they're reading the longer form stories.

6:51So we just have to be able to do it all really well. We can't ignore any of it. You can't just, you can't come in and say like, Like, listen, you know, HBR, our brand doesn't translate to short-form video. Let's just ignore that. We have to figure it out. But we also aren't going to stop doing the deeper dive things because our audience wants both. I love your answer. Like, we got to be everywhere. We got to be good at all of it, right? Because you have all these different audiences that are certainly on all the platforms. And then you have different demographics and, you know, generations that are also engaging with this content in different ways.

7:25You've got people who have been like myself, like, you know, HBR fans for many, many years. Right. And now we're in this predominantly digital age and thought how I consume thought leadership content now is maybe a little bit different to how I did it back in college. So you've got to have this ability to sit at the table now with all of these really interesting channels, if you will, TikTok and IG and YouTube, certainly in LinkedIn and, you know, all these different mediums. And you just said very simply, we got to be good at all of it. You know, so my question to you is like, how are you good?

8:00How do you get good at all of it? What's the what's the approach there? How do you think about that? Because that makes sense that you would want to be good at all of it. Yet that's a big that's a big comment. Yeah, you're right. It's sort of a cop out comment. It's like, yeah, we need to be good at everything. I think one of our biggest challenges is that we know our audience is at every level of career that you can conceive of. So we have people coming right out of B-School who are trying to figure out how to write resumes and cover letters. And we have people that are running Fortune 500 companies that, you know, are trying to figure out how to plan successions and reorganize their entire, you know, 5 ,000 team workforce.

8:43So we have to be able to get them content that at the core of it, it all has to be content that's meaningful. So there has to be research behind it. It has to be sort of user tested or at least, you know, tested out in the wild. They have to see that it's relevant. So, you know, you can do that at every level of the conversation. So if it's just someone talking about how to talk to your boss in a difficult moment, if we are talking about that through the lens of an expert, through the lens of people who have actually done this in real life, it's very different than just somebody who's writing an article, giving you their opinion.

9:17So at every level of your career, we're trying to give you relevant content that actually has rigor to it, that has research-based information that's going to be useful. So you can do that in 30 seconds and you can do that in an 8 ,000 word story. How is it going on platforms like TikTok for HBR? Like, what are you seeing there? What are you noticing? And what's the strategy to stay relevant there? There's clearly a desire for manage yourself content, which is, you know, basically, what do I need to do to progress in my career? What do I need to do to get a promotion, to get a raise? Like, how do I deal with a difficult situation at work?

9:58There's a lot that that content truly resonates on TikTok. The author content really resonates. So we have a ton of authors in our in our world that are great on camera, that love to speak about their ideas. You know, when we can get that sort of parsed down to a 30 second clip or a 45 second clip, that really resonates. People love to hear from the authors. We experiment with it all the time. So we have editors on staff who are constantly thinking about ways that they can try and engage with our audience on TikTok. And then, you know, we just sort of track the data, see what resonates and keep trying more and more stuff.

10:33So it's sort of like, it is a great platform for experimentation because, you know, you put something out there, if it doesn't work, no big deal. You're going to put something out the next day. And when you start to see sweet spots, when you start to see things that really resonate, then you can sort of focus your efforts in that way. You mentioned one, one, one experiment or one, one idea was having the author actually, you know, speak and say something on, on TikTok. any other specific experiments that you're either trying or have tried that are interesting in TikTok specifically? I do think that, you know, there are editors here who've been doing a lot of, you know, very personal content on TikTok, just like, here's how I've solved problems that like, you know, if you've got an early career person talking to an expert, there's sort of a nice generational moment there where somebody who's in their mid-20s is talking to somebody who's in their mid-30s or 40, who's sort of giving advice and then saying like, Like, try something like this.

11:25Here's what I've heard works in the past. Here's what we've seen work in the past. So that kind of content works really well. A big one that I know we spend a lot of time on in our business is LinkedIn. This one's super fascinating to me. I mean, we have a network of shows that Mission produces and runs. And then each of the shows have a different host, right? Different perspectives, different guests that come on these shows. And it's still fascinating to me about what's working, what's not working there. but just how do you view LinkedIn as a channel? Again, any kind of specifics you can share around what's working or what you're noticing about LinkedIn and how it's being leveraged?

12:02Sure. I believe, you might have to check me on this, but I believe we are the largest brand on LinkedIn. Like we have some ridiculous number of followers, like 14 million followers or something like that. Wow. The thing that really resonates, the thing that we find that our audience really likes is when they are included in the conversation. So we have, I think we have a LinkedIn reading group. We have a LinkedIn advisory panel that we will send new ideas out to, get feedback from. We send them, obviously we send them sort of invitations and alerts to closed webcasts and things like that, that they can participate in.

12:40But mostly it's about making sure that the LinkedIn audience feels included in the conversation around the things that we're thinking about, the stories we're writing, the events that we're having, stuff like that. But that inclusion is pretty powerful. It can actually really keep people engaged. I think you're actually right about that because one of our producers was mentioning, he was doing some research prior as well and saw that it's definitely the biggest audience he's seen. I don't know of another one. And that's a testament to one, the type of content, but also the engagement. And I also want to kind of circle that with you a little bit is just the ways in which you're engaging with the audience and what you see working really well.

13:21You could zoom out of LinkedIn if you want, or just kind of touch on different ones. But I guess the specific question is like, are there kind of new, interesting ways you are engaging with your audience in kind of modern 2024 that you weren't engaging with the audience before? Or you just kind of stick it to tried and true ways to engage what's working, what's not? I don't know that there's anything that's really kind of groundbreaking. I mean, we have a really robust newsletter following. We have a great podcast network that generates a lot of interest. It's stuff that you've seen other brands doing.

13:55But I think, you know, we are really focused on making sure that when we do it, it is, you know, it's high quality and we will take things that aren't resonating and we'll sunset them. Like we'll just drop newsletters out. We'll drop a podcast out that if it's not resonating, we have two podcasts that have really stood the test of time. We have Idea Watch and Women at Work. they are really like you know tried and true audience that will come to every every new podcast but they'll also come and watch the podcast get recorded it's a really passionate fan base it's like I've worked in media my whole life and I've never experienced a readership and a fan base like this that is you know so loyal to the brand that they they can't get enough content Like it really is kind of a remarkable story, especially coming from, you know, commercial media brands that are reliant on newsstand sales and advertising.

14:47It's like our subscriber base is really our bread and butter. Like they are just the most passionate group of readers that I've ever encountered. It's such a testament to the value of, I mean, the content is true. I mean, it's been, again, I'm thinking, I mean, I first got turned on to this, you know, know, we're talking, you know, uh, mid two thousands, probably like mid, mid 2000, early two thousands and started paying attention to a ton of content, um, Harvard content. And it's just like, it's consistently good. Like it's just consistently good. And it's like, yeah, right. Great content. And you just continue to engage people.

15:22It's like, you haven't, you haven't dropped the ball over the years. And that's a testament. It's not by accident. I mean, the one thing that we don't do is we don't like flood the feed. Like we're not interested in publishing a hundred stories a day that are kind of mediocre. Sometimes our website will publish three or four stories a day and that's it. And our magazine has eight features that come out every two months. But, you know, those stories and those features are really worth publishing and they will generate a ton of conversation. They'll give you a lot of ideas. Like I've had friends who say like, oh, you work for HBR.

15:56It's too expensive. You know, it's like, it's 20 bucks an issue or 120 bucks a year or something like that. And I'll be like, if I told you that, you know, for 20 bucks, I could give you an idea that would change the way you have meetings for the rest of the year. Isn't that worth 20 bucks? That's a great response. That's what I mean, it's true. Like sometimes, John, it's like the title, like literally the title of the article or like the piece of content where I'm like, even the title is like, wait a second, That could change the game right there. And then you read into the content. And to your point, I mean, the power of a sentence, the power of a paragraph that can literally change the trajectory of one's career, the way you connect with your peers, your leaders.

16:40I mean, it's incredible. Yeah. I mean, I have grown. I have adult daughters who are working, and I'm constantly sending them HBR articles. You know, hey, you know, my daughter just sent me a resume the other day, and I was like, hey, read this article. There's some really good ideas in here around. things you might want to think about doing. So, I mean, every day I've got, I go to HBR for something. So. That's amazing. I'm assuming you get a free membership. You better get a free membership, John. We got to talk to some people. I get a free subscription. It's one of the perks of the job. Good, good, good.

17:12I want to click into like under the hood of like how John Corpix thinks, how John solves problems. So take us into, take us into an experience, like take us into like, you know, your process for, you know, you walk into your desk or you open something up and like, here's something new for you to look at. What is it like to be you? And like, what are you, give us, give us an example of like, you know, like, okay, this came across my desk. It was this thing. And give us some of your, like, what's your approach and your creative process and like how you engage with this content or this creative and just walk us through an example of maybe one of your most exciting ones or one you did, you know, on Tuesday, which was yesterday and probably was also exciting.

17:57If you're in the shoes of John Corpix, the first thing you do is you ride your bike seven miles to the office and then you like try and towel off in the bathroom. Wow. And then you sit down at your desk. Everything I do, there's sort of a philosophy behind it. So it's all different. Like if you come to me for sort of what's our social media strategy, what's our, what's our product design strategy? There's always a reason for what I do. I think probably the most interesting is the print product because there's so much conversation around why we do it, what is the value of it? Are people still reading magazines?

18:28How do you decide what to do with a magazine? So my approach to the magazine has always been, it's a selection that people make when they subscribe. So you don't have to get it. You can just get the digital subscription if you want. And so we're already kind of being invited in to people's lives by them making that choice. And so when I design it or when we design the magazine, I want to make it as enjoyable a read as possible, as easy to read as possible. Like I don't want it to be overly designed. I don't want it to be confusing. I want it to, I want there to be a really consistent sort of look and feel to it.

19:04So we're not designing every story differently. We're kind of creating a very consistent flow through the whole thing. We're literally like placing things like pull quotes at the top of every page. We're not moving them around. So like, as you start to scroll through, you know, you become conditioned to look for things in certain places. Like I know where to look for, you know, the summary of the story. I know where to look for the pull quotes. I know where to look for, you know, whatever information it is you might be looking for. And then we have sort of this idea of aligning visual work with stories, with metaphors that kind of connect to the headline.

19:38So if you're doing a business publication, it's really hard to create new imagery around, you know, sort of traditional business ideas. So I always joke about this idea that, you know, if we see a flock of geese flying in a V formation for leadership, or if I see a mountaintop for leadership, or if I see a light bulb for ideas, like, you know, we've somehow, we've somehow failed. And so when I first got here, we came up with this idea that we wouldn't actually assign too much art. Like we still do a lot of assigning, but not nearly as much as most magazines do. What we do instead is that we look for existing artwork that kind of aligns with the idea of the story, right?

20:23You mentally make that connection when you see it. You see the art, you see the headline and you say, oh, I get it. Now I understand how this art relates. The other thing that does is that it kind of elevates the brand to feeling like you're walking through a museum. So it gives it that premium experience. Ultimately, I want people who get the magazine to want to hang on to it. I don't want it to feel disposable. I want it to feel like something they want to keep on their shelf, you know, and collect even like, you know, like you would collect old National Geographics or something. So there are lots of little things we do for that print product that we are hoping kind of prop it up and make it feel like it's worth that extra few bucks that you're giving us, but also that it's a, it's sort of a badge, you know, you want to leave it out on your coffee table because you're proud to be associated with the brand and you want to go back and reference it.

21:13You want to like keep it on your shelf because a year or two from now, you still may want to go back and look at it. So when we see the magazine, when I see the magazine and I talk to the magazine designers, that's the way we approach it. We think about everything as if we're doing it, you know, to create this really beautiful premium thing that is easy to read and that people want to hang on to. I know a lot of brands that we engage with have, I mean, I guess the easiest way is they can be complex, right? Especially some of these large enterprise B2B brands that are selling some software or some service.

21:53Something I see HBR doing really well is there's this magic and turning, you know, complex business concepts into, as you just described, into visually engaging story. Right. And so for the folks out there that are tasked with doing this inside of their brands, you know, what are some of the elements that they should consider, right? When they're thinking of, okay, make this, you know, stodgy, complex thing, you know, make it appealing, make it engaging, right? What are some of the maybe elements they could consider? It's a hard thing to sort of sum up in a podcast, but I would say that if you want to elevate the brand beyond picking up Getty image photographs of people in a conference room smiling and talking over laptops, you have to be able to think about them less literally.

22:42at the core of whatever this this thing is you're selling there's an idea there's a there's like there's something about it that is the root of why you're doing it and if you can get to that visually that is a good start I mean you also have to think about the image you're showing and how does that represent the brand it's hard to sort of give you like a couple of quick bullet points and say if you just do it like this you'll you'll be successful but it is this idea that I You know, when I do this, I'm sort of, you know, inherently connected to the brand on all levels. So every decision I make, you know, if I'm choosing a typeface or a font or if I'm choosing an image or if I'm figuring out how to represent our brand in navigation or, you know, if I'm doing long form storytelling and digital, I'm always thinking about is this in line with what I think the brand is, which is, you know, a premium product that shows itself off in ways that feel like you're in a quality environment.

23:37I mean, it's hard to know exactly how to do that unless I have a specific problem right in front of me. I will say I have over the years found that, you know, we will like we'll do stories and we'll use old Harold Edgerton photographs because they're really cool, you know, stop motion images of water dripping in and showing, you know, water waves splashing out and using an image like that for a story about how to sort of connect your disparate teams or how to communicate across a complex environment. Now you have this really beautiful sort of, you know, scientific, historically based image that people look at and think is kind of cool.

24:16It's like, hey, that's a cool image. But you're also using it to kind of tell a story about your brand or your product or your idea. So when you can find that sweet spot of marrying those two things together, that's when you succeed. Clearly, you and the squad, the HBR HPB squad there has to balance the need for depth and complexity with this demand for quick digestible content that's very fast paced, right? So it's like you're doing it, you're doing it well, obviously. Is there a particular example of maybe a particularly challenging story that you had to design? What made it difficult? How did you overcome those challenges?

24:58Yeah, so the HBR model is that we are publishing research, research written by academics, by business leaders, but we are essentially, it's a partnership. Like, so they bring content to us. We kind of define it as worthy of publication. And then we spend a lot of time polishing, editing, you know, getting it ready for prime time, so to speak. That's very different than a traditional magazine or news media model. And so we did a story once about, Apple. I can't remember what the story was, but the authors worked at Apple. They actually were working there and they were sort of writing a story about this new way they had come up with.

25:38I think it was about like an Apple Academy, like sort of an internal school that they were sending employees to or something like that. And so what we did originally was I said, oh, that's cool. We can have fun with the Apple logo. Like we'll play around with it visually. We'll do, you know, know, different apples with different things happening to them and I'll hire some artists and it'll be a cool thing to do. And so we did that. And then somebody realized that, you know, the people at Apple who wrote the story might not actually like it if we were messing around with their logo. And I had to kind of stop and consider that because, again, this is a partnership.