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Podcast Notes: Marketing Trends - Episode: The Cybersecurity CMO Making Headlines & Dominating B2B Attention
Episode Overview Host: Stephanie Postles Guest: Don Jeter, CMO of TORQ Episode Description: In this episode, Don Jeter shares insights on innovative marketing strategies in the cybersecurity sector, focusing on brand-led world-building, the importance of entertainment over information, and unique marketing collaborations.
Key Themes and Concepts
Brand vs. Features
- Brand-Led Approach: Don emphasizes prioritizing brand identity and emotional connection over showcasing product features.
- Distinction from Competitors: Avoiding the "sea of sameness" common in B2B marketing.
Trade Show Strategies
- Cultural Relevance: Importance of engaging and visually stimulating setups at trade shows.
- Monster Jam Partnership: TORQ partnered with Feld Entertainment to showcase a Monster Jam truck, creating a memorable booth that drew attention.
World-Building in B2B
- Creating Emotional Connections: Leveraging humor and entertainment to foster emotional connections with customers.
- Episodic Content: Development of characters like "Intern Trevor" on LinkedIn to engage audiences in a fun narrative.
Measurement and Attribution
- Fuzzy Attribution: Discussed the challenges of measuring the effectiveness of creative marketing efforts.
- Collaboration with Sales: Ensuring alignment between marketing, product, and sales teams to drive results.
Hiring and Team Dynamics
- Creative and Technical Balance: Importance of hiring both technically knowledgeable and creative team members.
- Collaborative Culture: Emphasis on a culture that encourages innovation and creative risks.
AI in Marketing
- Use of AI for Brainstorming: AI tools can assist in idea generation but should be complemented by human creativity and taste.
Lightning Round Highlights
- $10M Marketing Moonshot: Don would spend it on a Super Bowl ad.
- Sacred Marketing Belief: The notion of being a "data-driven marketer" may soon become outdated.
- Impactful Ad: A humorous utility truck ad that featured taxidermist scenarios caught his attention.
- Deserted Island Scenario: He would bring Josh Morris (CRO), and potentially Elon Musk for problem-solving.
Episode Takeaways
- Focus on Entertainment: As attention spans dwindle, B2B brands need to implement entertaining strategies to capture audience interest.
- Emotional Marketing: Building emotional connections through creative storytelling is vital for brand loyalty.
- Cultural Relevance and Engagement: Understanding and aligning with cultural trends can enhance marketing efforts and strengthen brand presence.
- Team Collaboration: Successful marketing requires strong alignment and collaboration between teams to ensure that creative ideas translate into effective results.
Conclusion Don Jeter’s approach to marketing in the cybersecurity space presents a refreshing perspective that prioritizes brand identity, emotional engagement, and creativity in a traditionally technical field. His insights serve as valuable lessons for marketers looking to innovate and differentiate in B2B environments.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00We romanticized data-driven performance marketing. The big ideas, you never know what they're going to do. Most of the companies in your space are just talking about AI and features and their product. And you came in hot telling me about monster trucks, skeletons, some random intern that you have. It's going to be a night of magic and misery. We told you we're not doing this. Go. We got to go. Come on. What did the marketing look like before? And what was your playbook? Just to be more attention-getting. The alternative is you look like everybody else. There's no differentiation. People don't love your brand.
0:33People aren't connected to your brand emotionally. And you're never going to break through. And then you're really going to have a problem. We really are entering this new era of entertainment. You have to not just inform because people don't really care. Right now, I think it's more important than ever to make an emotional connection with potential customers and customers. We do that with humor. I don't think I follow any other cybersecurity companies. And why I started following it was your intern content. I was like, what are you all doing, Trevor? Trevor.
1:05And I was like, this dude's either crazy or brilliant or both. Yeah, I think Trevor's a real life junior media intern at Torque. Some people listening right now might be like, that's awesome. But does it actually drive, you know, revenue? Yes, it's working.
1:26Hello, and welcome back to Marketing Trends. This is your host, Stephanie Postles, CEO and founder of Mission and Relevant. And today I am so excited because we have Don Jeter joining us in studio with me, the CMO of TORC, Don. Yeah, thanks for having me. Thank you. Yeah. I'm excited. I'm very excited, you know, from our first conversation. I mean, you are in a space where I think most of the companies in your space are just talking about AI and features and their product. and you came in hot telling me about monster trucks, skeletons, some random intern that you have that you're doing content around.
2:00And I was like, this dude's either crazy or brilliant or both. And so that's why you're here. Hopefully somewhere in the middle. Yeah. Torque bet big on brand. And I think it's a different strategy, but we lead with brand and we, you know, coming to Torque from my previous gig, I was very upfront with, I think if we go brand first, it will work. We looked at other industries or I looked at other industries and saw a big emphasis on brand building and world building. And I thought this was like 2021, 2022, like why hasn't anyone done this yet in cyber? So I got very lucky with a CEO and founder, you know, founding team and board that like bought into it and have given me like incredible creative freedom to do this approach.
2:43And yeah, it's been a lot of fun. So when you came into Torque, what did the marketing look like before? And what was your playbook? Did you come in and say, hey, we need a new tagline. We need do have personification. Like, did you kind of build out the same playbook? It was a complete rebrand. I mean, it was like completely, you know, we didn't change the logo. We didn't change the like typography of the logo, like the wordmark, because we already had it on a building, I think at the time. And like, I thought about like the very few times I think about like cost analysis and like what's the URL.
3:13Like what's this really going to do? I just knew that that would be a ton of work for me. Like, oh man, if I'm rebranding everything, including the logo, that means the office has to be redone. Like that was too big of a lift. But I mean, basically everything color palette, the like identity was completely overhauled just to be more attention getting. Like that was the goal. Like I just didn't think we really stood out at all. We looked like I, even in the first presentation, it's like I pulled up six, seven websites and put ours in there and it was pretty, you know, it felt like a template. It felt like everybody's website.
3:47So we really focused on, you know, changing the tone, the look, the feel to stand out. I want to talk about conferences and how you're showing up there. So for anyone who does not attend cybersecurity conferences or they don't know what they are, maybe paint a picture of what it's like walking into some of these conferences. And then what if I was there and I saw you, what would you what would Twerk be showing up like? Conferences are just this like endless exhibit halls of booths. It's like severance, but just booths. And he's walking down that hall, just booths. And a lot of the booths, like the websites we just mentioned, just feel the same.
4:26You look at them and something, something, agentic AI. We really are entering this new era of entertainment. I truly believe you have to not just inform because people don't really care. They're walking the floor. unless something really stands out. No one wakes up the morning of a show and say, I'm looking for new products to go buy right now. And I'm going to wander this floor looking for them. You really have to focus on getting attention. And a trade show floor is like, good luck, right? There's 400, 500 booths. There's 44 ,000 attendees at RSA. It's hard to stand out. And so you really do have to think about it just on a human level, like what's going to separate you from all these other booths.
5:14And we think about that really intentionally with how we approach it. For us this past year, it was like, I want to go get a partnership that's going to stand out and have some cultural relevance, like make us feel bigger, put us on another scale than everybody else in a similar stage of growth. And so this past year, we entered a great partnership. Shout out to Feld Entertainment and our friends at Monster Jam. And it's just been a great, great way to stand out. Like there's nothing bigger than, you know, I don't know how big it's like 12 ,000 pound monster truck sitting in your booth. It's just like, no, you have to stop and look at it.
5:49Getting it into the booth, a nightmare. That's good content too. Yeah, it's great content. Like everybody's like, oh, I saw, I saw Gravedigger. And it like aligns perfectly with the Sora's dead and some of the skeleton stuff we've been doing. So it just, it seemed like such a natural fit. And that is one way. Now, not everybody can do a monster truck, but just thinking about ways, right, to stand out in a sea of sameness. Yep. Right. That's like what we spend a lot of time thinking about. Not so much, hey, how do we make this new feature really land, right? We have great features and functions.
6:24And you can't do any of this without a product. But on that floor, no one's stopping to read, you know, all about your features. It just doesn't happen. Yeah. I mean, I love that because I'm sure you already know these numbers, but most B2B buyers aren't in market. I think it's like 90 % of them are not currently in market. And so you need to be in their eyes, hearts, minds for a long time before they ever think, oh, I might need something around cybersecurity. Oh, this company Twerk was literally all around me for the past five years. And I don't know if they have what I need, but they're at least in my head.
6:54And so like showing up long before they actually need what you have is so important. And I think most brands aren't doing that. You need to get that like mental real estate. And there's like cheat codes on how to do that. But some of the stuff just thinking differently about how you show up in a social feed, how you show up on a booth floor, how you release content, what that content looks like, the kind of world building approach to how some of the consumer brands do it. Like you need to think more consumer now than ever because you're not just competing with a bunch of B2B brands. you're competing with Netflix and TikTok and every other distraction in today's culture, right?
7:30Yep. So you mentioned world building. How do you think about world building for Torque? I mean, you have all these different things going on, but what does it look like, especially when you're starting from scratch? Like most people who have probably never built a world, especially within a B2B company. How do you go about thinking about that? I think for us, it like just started kind of very organically. I didn't like say, I'm going to build this world. I'm building a world today. Yeah, it's like you just kind of start connecting dots. And I think when you look at, you know, great brands, and this is, you know, I'm not a technical marketer.
8:02I don't have a big history of marketing or I just looked at like what has made an impact on me, you know, personally on a consumer level. And I try to emulate a lot of that. So if you think about some of the best consumer brands, they do create these incredible worlds and these connected narratives and story arcs. And that's something that I just try to emulate. I think like Walt Disney, of course, of course, like the literal building a literal world, but all the properties are connected. It's incredibly integrated. Marvel's kind of like the modern version of that, right? The Marvel universe. I don't watch those, but there's like 18 of these movies or whatever.
8:40And then you even think about like Taylor Swift hinting at lyrics or album drops. I think that there's something now with today's culture where it's like brand is about belonging. And I think you need to find ways to create belonging in your brand and inviting people in to follow along and to follow your clues and content not just being stopping. Oh, here's a white paper. It's done. But connecting pieces, referencing those pieces in video, referencing those pieces on the trade show floor. There's something about it's like very it resonates with people if they feel like they're a part of it. Or, oh, I remember this from last year or this story continues.
9:17I saw Monster Jam in the booth and now I'm at a Monster Jam event and now I'm giving my child a Monster Jam plushie after going to the event. There's like this connectivity between, you know, your brand, the experiences you provide, the education. It's no longer like just enough to inform you. I think you have to entertain. And I think by creating these worlds of these connected pieces, whether it's content, social event, and we try to do it. We try to do it in our unique way. I think social is the easiest way to do it because you can think about social almost like episodic. We do a lot with social where I think a lot of B2B brands are, it's like a product newswire.
9:55We think about social as like entertainment first and how do we kind of build a world within our social feeds and then bring that world elsewhere. Yeah. So when it comes to your social feeds, I don't think I follow any other cybersecurity companies and almost no other enterprise companies because they don't have good content. Yours is hilarious. And I think why I started following it was your intern content. I was like, what are you all doing, Trevor? Trevor. I'd love for you to talk about the idea around that. Like, where did you come up with this idea? What is it so the audience can understand this content?
10:27Yeah, I think Trevor's a real life junior media intern at Torque. I think we needed a vehicle for content that isn't necessarily like cybersecurity content. And I think going back, I don't know where a lot of the ideas come from. I think it's very iterative. I think that there's like I'm influenced and our team is influenced by kind of niche internet content like Conor O'Malley and like some really deep, weird, you know, adult swim stuff and like Tim Robinson stuff. I think you should leave like that stuff has always been very funny to me and a lot of the people on our team. And so a lot of the world building that we do is like, well, what would that look like if we took that to cyber?
11:08and what would that look like if we had a junior media intern trying to create content about cyber, but he knows nothing about cyber. And you kind of follow his growth and his career journey. And that's part of the world, right? And people have really enjoyed following this character. And I think it's cool because it has nothing to do with necessarily what we do. We reference a lot of the autonomous security operations and our product and analysts and all the like love our product gets and how much our customers love it. But at the same time, like it's entertainment. It's like purely entertainment.
11:47And I think there's something to that mental real estate where, oh, I'm following this guy. I just like it. And I like right now, I think it's more important than ever to like make an emotional connection with potential customers and customers. Right. So we do that with humor. And I think you just want to create feelings. And I think it's really hard to do that when you're shipping, you know, white papers and analyst briefings. We love our analysts. But like doing that all the time, you don't break through and create any sort of emotional connection. And for Torque, our big bet is like our brand is going to create real emotional connections with prospects and customers and people will love us and then they will find our product right when they need it.
12:25Yeah, you guys do a very good job with those skits. I mean, I think I saw one where he was trying to get petitions to go to one of the conferences because you guys weren't going to let him go. And like you do a good job of tying what he's up to with also twerk. And yeah, it's that story arc. And if you're listening to this and you've never followed our LinkedIn, it's like, what are you all talking about? But like, we're going to pull it up. Don't you wear I think that there's, I think that there's something to creating more like episodic content where you're like following characters and you're creating a storyline and those storylines can be long.
13:00The content can be short, but like the art can be long. And I think that that's what we're, I think, really interested in is these long spanning stories where for people who do follow, it's entertaining and it's kind of rewarding because you've been following along. We naturally want stories as humans. And so that's what we're trying to do. So I'm sure some people listening right now might be like, that's awesome. But does it actually drive, you know, revenue for it to work? Like, is it performing? And I don't know if you have any high level, like ranges, directions that it's like, like things that it's actually driving that you could share, but.
13:37Yes, it's working. It's working. You've had your chance. No, I mean, yeah, I wouldn't, here's, here's what I'll say. I wouldn't be able to keep doing this if it wasn't working. I would be cut off so fast. I think, yeah, I would have a very short leash if we weren't seeing the results from this. And again, I can't do this stuff without an incredible product that delivers with an incredible sales team that goes out and knows this story and knows how to help our customers understand their pain points and understand how our solution addresses those pain points, none of this stuff works. You can have Trevor, you can have a van, you can have a sock goblin and a big monster truck.
14:19That doesn't work without this incredible team working with you on it. And it's very collaborative. And I think that's one last thing I'll say on world building is you want to invite prospects and customers in as a brand to collaborate, participate and explore. and I think one proof point to that was like at Black Hat part of Trevor's story arc was he wanted to go to Vegas and do this big performance this big show right and he called all these stages and tried to get a theater to do this Sock de Soleil right and we had the Sock Goblin and it was this big performance and it's like an eight foot furry creature that was tagging along and it was a huge costume but we show up to Black Hat where Fortune 500 company Carvana is presenting the Cisodina is presenting on stage talking about torque and talking about autonomous security operations and how ai has helped her team tremendously and she's in this like yellow sweater that is reminiscent of sock goblin and she says i'm wearing i'm doing my best sock goblin today because we've killed the sock goblin in our sock and i think that that is something that's like that to me is like a such a proof point that like the stuff we're making is resonating and like creating an emotional connection between the brand and the customer.
15:40This is a CISO of a fortune 500 company putting on a sweater to look like one of the characters in our fictitious, you know, LinkedIn video. Right. So I think that that's, that's something that I think is just very hard to figure out how to do. And there's an alchemy to it, but something that we've bet big on and it's working. It's working. How long do you think people should give it to see if it's working? I know. I feel like sometimes CMOs are like, if it doesn't work within a month, if I don't see performance, we're not doing it. Like they need quick wins. So what do you advise? Man. Yeah. Marketers on that.
16:14I don't know. You know, how long did it take you? A lot of what I do, a lot of what I do and our team does is so experimental and there's no data and there's no modeling or understanding what has this worked what's the roi on this or what could it be because it's like performative episodic linkedin tv shows are no one's really doing that in our space yet so i think you have to have real alignment with your c staff and your partners right and your sales leader like i'm lucky because my sales leader you know shout out cro josh morris is like he's down Like he's like, I'm all in on this. He's, you know, he's going to Monster Jam.
16:55It's like it's a it's a team. And same with our C staff, like our CEO and co-founders are all like, this is what we signed up for because I kind of got that alignment really early. Yeah. Like in the negotiation of coming to the, you know, accepting the role. You know, I had long conversations like a year of conversations with Ofra and the team on this is my playbook. Like, I don't want you all to be surprised when we roll this stuff out. So like, how long do you give it? I think it's more about aligning with the team on the strategy and not because this can look chaotic and unhinged and wild if you don't align it.
17:32This is all part of it. Like there's a strategy to this. And I think pointing to like the Carvana Cesar Dressed Up as a Sock album is proof that like, hey, we've been doing this and it does resonate. Now, with numbers, it's going to be very hard. I think you have to have the pipeline. If the pipeline's not there for any of this stuff. I mean, you better pivot fast because I think the CMO is like 10 years, like the, the shortest tenure of like everybody, because everybody can point and be like the marketing sucks. Marketing's not working. We don't have pipeline. So yeah, you got to be, I think a little bit bold and, but also just get that alignment.
18:05So it's like shared accountability. So it's not just the marketing teams doing weird, weird videos and bought a monster truck, you know? Yep. Yeah. No, I actually, I mean, I love that. And I heard someone else talking about this, maybe someone from superhuman, Harmony Anderson, she came on and she was like, yeah, I'm doing different influencer things, podcast sponsorships, but don't ask me for attribution numbers. Like just let's see if revenue is growing and don't try and make me like tie everything from everything I'm doing. Like these need to be experiments and working quickly and not be getting caught in like data analysis paralysis not able to move anywhere?
18:42It's so hard. Like attribution is like brutal. And I think we romanticized data driven performance marketing. And not that there isn't relevance to like saying, hey, I'm going to look at data and make some informed decisions. But some of this stuff, like I said, like you don't the big ideas, you never know what they're going to do. Right. And the alternative is to be like every one of those other booths in that exhibit the hole. Yeah. Right. And you're never going to break through. And then you're really going to have a problem because you look like everybody else. There's no differentiation. People don't love your brand.
19:15People aren't connected to your brand emotionally. And they're not going to think about your brand if they do have a challenge that they want to solve. So I think it's like big bets, big, bold moves, high risk, but a great reward of like awareness and attention and being discoverable and also like lovable. Yep. I also love what you said about getting other C-level team members on board from the beginning. That's everything. Yeah. That can't be stressed enough. Like it looks fun doing, you know, fun merch and trucks and going out and doing the fun events. And it's a ton of work to like one, pull that off.
19:51And again, like I'll just credit the team for being down to clown. Like it's you got to be you got you have to take risks to stand out. And before you do those risks, it's in your best interest if you're a marketing leader to go align. because now it's shared accountability. It's not like, oh, they just spent a bunch of money. We had no idea what they were doing. So if it doesn't work, you can be like, hey, we all, we were all in on this big bet, right? What does it look like? I mean, you've mentioned a couple of times you have to have a good product to be able to do these kinds of things and make it work.
20:21What does your partnership look like with product and sales and all the other teams to be working so cohesively together? Well, I think the first thing is, is you can't be this bold, this confident, and I think out there if your product isn't standing up when you get to POC, right? Or when you're in a demo. If it's all theater and then you get behind the curtain and it sucks, it doesn't work, right? It's almost like you will never have a shot with that customer or prospect again because you've lost all trust. It's all marketing. And actually in this industry, people hate marketing. I knew the product was really good.
21:01I, you know, coming in, like you could tell right away, you know, how confident the founders were, what I was reading from analysts, customer testimonials, like you look on G2 or Gartner Peer Insights, and you see the love of the product and how it has solved real challenges and how it's a new approach to a very old problem, which is automation, which historically legacy store products have over promised and under delivered. we're doing a great job and our products you know standing up and doing doing a great job you have to be confident in the product behind you when you when you do marketing like when you go to market with something like our go-to-market and you need to be you need to be informed i think as the marketing leader on how it works obviously the features function all that so i just had on the cmo of synopsis and she basically said the number one problem with teams within a company is that they don't know how the company is like how they talk about what they do their branding their messaging.
21:58So similar to what you just said, like coming in and making sure everyone's speaking the same language and talks about torque all in a similar way. Yeah. She was like, that's the biggest issue she's seen with almost every big company. And as they get bigger, it gets even harder to manage. Well, as you add products, as you add different like product lines, I think you need, again, to like create belief that you're doing something bigger. And I think for us, it was, we believe that the old way of automating just isn't working. And we've, when we heard that a lot of this has to be anchored to like real customer stories.
22:28And I think the thing that we heard over and over is in 2018, we bought this security orchestration automation response platform that promised to automate all this stuff for us. Years later, we're still stuck with only a few things automated. To automate more, we need to hire professional services because this thing is so complex and requires such expertise that we don't have the people. We we've not been able to hire people to to to work on it. And so that we just built a story around. It's like, oh, well, the easy way to say to say that story is soar is dead. This thing sucks. This thing promised all this automation and never delivered.
23:06Here's how we do it differently. Right. And I think I think a lot of times you can skip that phase of like, what's the like core story? Like what's the narrative of like the emotional story that a customer would respond to? not the like I don't know you've read the taglines out there that are like really long and very feature function or like very technical like sore is dead oh everyone will remember that it's three words it's like just do it or I'm loving it or you look at the big brands like I mentioned and like they always have these like really short memorable taglines for us it's like sore is dead then we built our whole kind of identity around that because it landed people had this like visceral reaction to sore is dead it's like yes it is dead I hate this I hate my sore yeah yeah so It's talking like a human too, which is very different.
23:53And I'm not super, you know, plot twist. I'm not super technical. What? Yeah. Surprise. So I also had to come up with a story for me and my team that's like we get a reaction from and we like and we have some emotional investment in that story. And that's just really worked for us. Have you gotten any pushback with your marketing for not being technical? Because I've had another cybersecurity CMO on here and they were trying to tell me that you if you don't show up in these spaces very technical and show you know what you're talking about like reddit of course and other places you're just gonna be kicked out like have you ever gotten any people like giving you a hard time because well no it's a great question like I think that you're never going to get attention if you start technical so like my whole thing my whole approach is our product is extremely technical right these are like some of the smartest people these security operation teams are very very technical but I need to get the the opportunity or the right to tell them about my product.
24:52And if I don't get their attention, I'll never get to the product. And so I think it's easy to be like, oh, they just do crazy, absurd, outrageous marketing, and they have a truck and skeletons and that's cool. We get your attention and then we get you into the demo. And that's very technical. Or we get you into the analyst briefing or analyst report. And it's very technical. We may package that content up or those demos up in a fun way, but the product stands up. And that's kind of what I was saying. It's like, if the product is not, you know, really, really effective and we have the technical documentation to also support it.
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25:28Yeah. This stuff would fall down. We'd be laughed out of rooms. But the truth is, is that teams love it. It does solve a problem. And we have all the documentation. And when you go to the website, it's not all skeletons and chainsaws. You can look at it. It's an enterprise level. Like I know fortune 500 companies are coming to it, right? Procter and Gamble uses Torque. Uber uses Torque. Chipotle, Carvana. These are big companies that do take it very serious. They take us and take our product very seriously because it does work. And it's very, very, there is a lot of technical documentation to it.
26:00I just don't start there. Where I think a lot of these cyber companies start with, hey, why we're great. Look at all these technical features and functions. We start with, hey, what's your problem? Let me get your attention in a fun way to highlight that, yeah, you do have a challenge. The challenge is your SOAR platform, your challenge is in your SOC, right? So we just tell the story. We just start at a different point. I don't start so mid or deep funnel in my view. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Way better way to start. Do you think we're in kind of like a great time right now for these kind of strategies?
26:34Because I feel like not a lot of at least B2B companies are doing it, but I could see it getting to a place where soon maybe many of them are and it's a lot more competitive. I think they'll have to. Yeah. Like I think I think if you don't figure out how to entertain and not just like inform, you're going to you're going to you're going to be kind of obsolete. Like I do think that this is where everything is going. I think you look at our attention span. Right. And we all feel it like everybody's on screens. Everybody's, you know, multitasking. So you do have to find a way to cut through short form content is like rotting our brains.
27:09We know that. And so how do you combat that when you do have somewhat boring technical content, you do have to figure out a way to get people's attention. And I think that entertainment is the way to do that. Having humor is a way to create a connection. Like I said, that emotional connection, you know, offering opportunities to come see Monster Jam and learn about security automation, entertainment, entertainment also like involving like you know CISOs don't want another happy hour like we've had enough happy hours and so we're trying to also think about like how do we create connections where we're creating you know moments right and experiences and bring your kids right so like that's entertainment it's not about our product and um that's worked for us and I think you're going to see a lot of you know companies realize we got to do something more like this we've seen And, you know, for sure, like we've seen shifts in like trends based on I think some of our work.
28:02We look at Wiz, right? Shout out to our friends at Wiz. No arguing, right? Their valuation and what they've built. Incredible. Great product, but also very entertaining, lovable brand that is emotionally connected to their audience. Like they've done a phenomenal job. They're brand first, I would say. And they've done an incredible job. So, yeah, I think people are looking at this and saying we got to do more of this. Yeah. So when you think of brand first, do you think actually putting the brand first or do you try and lead people first, like people on your team or the CEO or the CMO? Because I've heard debate over if you're trying to get a brand out there, you really need to be, let's just say.
28:39Oh, like founder brand? Founder brand. Yeah. I mean, I have a founder over who does not like to be out there too much, right? And so that wasn't really like a motion for me. And rightfully so. Like he's orchestrating the board, He's doing all sorts of stuff, right? And so some marketers won't have that founder brand available. I think putting people first, like we, if you follow our feed, like we have Bob and Brit who are like faces of Torque. We have, you know, our CTO is front and center on a lot of media interviews. I'm, you know, out there. You're famous now after this. Whether they like it or not, I think that they're like, God dang, Don's up there.
29:17You don't get us in trouble. Yeah, don't. elastic scalability. But I think like people are a shortcut to like human, right? Like, oh, it sounds obvious, but like, I think having personalities and like, almost like character IP is something that's interesting. Like Trevor is character IP, Sock Goblin's character IP for us. We have a character who wears a big hat. I'm not going to name her because I don't want her to feel like she's character IP. The hat is character IP. But like those things are just these like fun brand extensions that like make people like you, I think, or hate you. But either way, I'm good because like you have a POV on tour.
30:02And some people hate us. Like you actually get. Yeah. Oh, yeah. What does it say? Yeah. No, like people hate the marketing. Why? And well, it's just kind of people. is it actually your possible customers we have people who hate torque deeply um we've had multiple scenarios i won't even give it light okay i won't shine any light on this hate but i we love it because you at least care like and there's hundreds of vendors out there who don't nobody cares about nobody knows them yeah and so i think building that is like special and like what i really like to do is like with our team iterate make characters create funny weird storylines all time back to this incredible product and our incredible team.
30:44Yeah, I actually think having people not like you is a good sign nowadays because I think about how many companies get one email where you're like, oh, you slightly offended me in this ad that you put out. And they're like, oh, well, sorry, I'm issuing an entire apology to everyone in the US. Yeah, we get we get we've had hate at events. We've had hate online. It means you're doing something right because you're creating a reaction. And I think in 2025, like reactions are good, right? And creating feelings, good, bad. It's what you need to do to get attention. And again, a lot of what we do is designed to get attention.
31:20We don't like like hate. Like we're not like, yes, people hate us. But we're also not afraid of like, we know that good marketing is often polarizing and people either love it or hate it. So throughout your career, have there been any moments where you've, you know, had these big marketing stunts or projects and it didn't work or like failure stories around some of these campaigns or ideas you've had? Man, I don't know about like just flat out. Straight fail. I want fail. Man, I got to think. I wouldn't say fail at all, but like at PAX 8 and my old PAX 8 colleagues will know this, like we used to dress up as in these flight suits.
32:01Okay. And we really, um, it was like, these were like, like aviator suits. Right. And like we had patches, we were a marketplace. So we had all these different like vendor patches, like Microsoft, Symantec, um, all these different like software patches, cursed. Um, but it did stand out. I would say a fail is one. We just like cringe probably now for sure. Um, but also like, I remember one time we got like calling out for like stolen valor and we're like we didn't even think of that you know and and we were certainly not trying to be yeah you know it was very obvious like we're a bunch of software dorks in this booth selling this stuff but i remember getting challenged like oh good point we had never thought about that um so that was like something where like oh man like that's not and there were so many learnings early on with like booth design where it was like you know i remember we put a video game on this projector that we made that was like this like cloud wingman super mario game and i remember us being so small we were like 25 employees and we were like going to these shows with this like really really janky ass like projector screen and display and we would project like this like video game up on this screen and people thought we were either a projector company or a video game company both valid like both like it does look like that's what we are and like just like not knowing like yeah yeah this video game seems cool like collect all the cloud points by buying Symantec or Microsoft or migrate and get you know win it was just really really bad um so there were like several moments I think early there I we We haven't had a massive, I would say massive failure, hopefully at Torque yet.
33:52But there's no way like you're doing stuff that you've never done. Like a lot of times we're doing stuff for the first time. We've never done it. Yeah. Like I was very nervous trying to get a Monster Jam truck into a venue. Like I was like there were the fire marshals coming in. I was like, oh, man, are we going to get shut down? Like they're doing fire marshal stuff around. Like, do we not get a permit? you know, all sorts of things that you're doing for the first time that you don't know if it's going to work. And I think that's also kind of the, the thrill of it too. And like, you know, the reward, it's like, Oh wow, we pulled it off.
34:22You know, few, that was close. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I mean, if you don't have failures, you're probably not trying hard enough. Yeah. Like you should go harder. I think, I think, yeah, that is the all gas, no breaks is like the mentality at torque. And it's, I think we have a culture of that. Like they like that we swing big and try new stuff. And again, our teams back us up and go out and they sell it and they build incredibly innovative products to help us keep telling new stories. So yeah, it's pretty cool. I do think your mini failure at Pax8 around having that booth is actually a great example.
34:56Like how do you make sure you're doing cool shit while also tying it in with your brand in a way that makes sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, oh, I thought this looked cool. And again, like all these things like you don't realize how they serve you, you know, at the time. But like, I mean, like, oh, man, like no one knows what we do at all. Yeah. And, you know, it felt like, man, we really got to think about this stuff. And a lot of the folks from Pax8 are with me at Torque. Like we created an incredible marketing culture. I think they want to push things. And like we have a designer who was the lead designer.
35:27Pax8 came to Torque, Matt Tao, and he does. Now he's doing this stuff on big screens, right? That like when we started, we were doing, I mean, we were putting together our own booth at Pax A, like literally, you know, I'm not handy. So it's been cool to see just the growth of like, yeah, learning from like, oh, a small five by 10 booth or 10 by 10 booth to these bigger booths. That's like super rewarding, I think, for creative people. So do you think these strategies could work at bigger companies? Oh, I mean, I think that there's, I think bigger companies do get brand like really well like you look at i mean whiz is from a startup to a big brand crazy valuation acquisition by google but like crowdstrike obviously gets brand really well like they've done you know a great job of like personifying these threats and i also think like the associations with like f1 right like that's something is that cool anymore i feel like everyone does it no everybody did it but like and that was one of our like zigzag things with monster jam I'm like, everybody's got an F1 car.
36:26We'll do a monster truck. Yeah. But like all this stuff could work. You know, I think like having a budget the size of a CrowdStrike budget, like they did a Super Bowl ad. Yeah. So I think, yeah, you can take all this stuff and just scale it way up. And I think people are going to start to do it. Like you see a lot of people play it safe at bigger companies. Again, there's challenges that I don't know about there, right? Like there's board members, you know, there's shareholders and all that stuff. So I don't know if it's like, oh, just, you know, get alignment with your CEO. and your CFO and the CRO and chief product guy and go get a monster truck.
37:00Like I think that there's other things that I would have no idea, you know, but I think in theory, building worlds, creating content that's like more immersive and, you know, inviting people to participate with it and follow it. And I think that there's always going to be appetite for that. And I think unique partnerships is also like, partnerships as theater is kind of also a space that I think you're going to see a lot more companies make interesting partnerships. And collabs are big in consumer, right? Where it's like, oh, unexpected collab here and there. Like, I think it's just slow to get to B2B.
37:33These trends are like just slow to get to us. And I think if you do them in B2B, it's like, oh, whoa, weird collaboration. But attention getting collaborative. So I think like we're just kind of lagging behind consumer, you know, consumer brands. Yeah. I mean, it seems like y 'all have obviously been crushing it. Didn't you just also get a shout out from Forbes? and tell me more about this and how that happened. Yeah, shout out Tony Bradley for recognizing Torque. Greatness. Yeah, recognizing great. Tony Bradley has been kind of on the forefront of like covering, I think, Torque and saw a lot of potential in us early.
38:07And we just have a great relationship. And I mentioned to him that we had, you know, got a partnership with Monster Jam and he was super interested. And he wrote this incredible piece talking about the brand and just cultural relevance and a new approach to B2B marketing that we're driving. And also mentioned Wiz and compared us to Wiz, which is like the ultimate for me. And I think our team, like an amazing comparison. Of course, like we have to execute. Like we're not at Wiz's level at all, but we have a lot of work to do. But I think the comparison or drawing a comparison is very cool. So yeah, it was a great piece.
38:45We'll link it in the comments. Yes, we will. We will link it up. Don's going to become a producer and help get everything linked up where needed. So with all this content you're creating, we've talked about, you know, your intern, the skits and all the things you guys are doing, socials. How are you using or leveraging AI within this creation or brainstorming process? We do use it for brainstorming and like getting rough outlines for potential blog ideas or, and I mean, you can dump so much in. It can cut down on the front end a lot. Now, I think we have a very unique visual identity. And like, I know a lot of, I mean, the AI slop is relentless.
39:23And I think a lot of the AI content just sucks, right? And it actually makes good content stand out even more. And so I'm inviting everybody to use AI for, don't hire designers, just use AI. You know, like that is kind of the theme right now. Couldn't you just use AI to do that? And it's like, yeah, you could. But I think that the one thing we haven't really touched on is also taste. Like taste is a big part of this game. And I think, you know, you're not going to get great out of AI without somebody who has great taste working with it. And so I think great for ideation, great for brainstorming, but you still need a human with great taste and great skills to put something out into market that you believe in.
40:07Like, I think this it's like lowered the barrier of entry for content creation. And it's just it's so bad. Right. Like there's so much bad content out there and it's actually making things noisier now because now every everybody's like, I'm a designer and I know how to prompt and I'm just going to make this and I don't even need to hit up marketing team. Yeah. And so for us, it's like ideation efficiencies. Yes, yes, yes. But we're still going to, you know, hand draw that skeleton or do things in a way that we really believe in. And we, you know, feel connected to emotionally. Like I don't put out work that I'm not, that I don't believe in.
40:46And so for us, it's like going the extra mile, making sure everything still reaches a standard that we have. And I can't get there yet. I talk to people sometimes where they're like, you still have, let's just say video editors. There's tools that can just take your podcast and cut a hundred clips. And I'm like, yeah, and they're all shitty. So that's where we're at. Like we just need to be comfortable saying like, it's not there yet. I'm not saying in a year, two years, three years, we can't like load these up with all of our skeletons and be able to, you know, character consistency. I know we'll get there, but right now, like look at LinkedIn, look at all the bad AI content.
41:24That's where we're at. And so, yeah, we're still going to have great designers and great writers because that's also what's what differentiates you as a brand. Yeah. Man, LinkedIn. LinkedIn is so such boring content. I feel like it's a good space. So it's like it's so right for just like you can win entertaining content. Yeah. And I think this is a very small window because everyone's going to catch up and say, yeah, hey, we need to make more fun content. And you're going to get a bunch of Timu Torx out there like not, you know, doing their funny version of whatever they think they want to do, which would be great because we do need more entertainment on LinkedIn.
42:01Don't do TikTok. Go do LinkedIn. Well, like I think that that's. it's so right to just do fun content. Yeah. We have one of our brand accounts on LinkedIn for IT Visionaries. It commented to the CTO of Anthropologie the other day and said, let's go around and find out. And I was like, who else is talking like that? This is great. We need more of this coming from our brand. It's all like, I mean, we're all devolving. Right. Like I think that there's just LinkedIn in the last like two years has changed so dramatically and i think the the appetite for fun and entertainment is just there now whereas like i remember like two three years ago it was like yeah you can't put that on linkedin i remember getting at pax a and i remember like people challenging we did like this sopranos meme and someone's like that's violence like you can't do that this was like six seven years ago and I remember being like, oh my Lord, like this is like this period of time is so wild that like you can't do fun stuff.
43:05Yeah. But yeah, it's such an easy way to stand out by just making fun content. And that's also it's hard. Yeah. Like humor and entertainment is hard, but I think we found a great team and have an internal culture that like enjoys it and we're having a good time. So yeah, it's working. Yeah. That's actually a good brainstorming prompt. Like what am I not allowed to do on these platforms? Like what should I not be doing and then just do that? I mean, yeah well yeah because yeah open ai microsoft linkedin's owned by microsoft they probably would tell you know like it'd be interesting to like yeah do that yeah no doubt yeah i don't do raunchy comp like content don't and be like there are like there are like lanes that we're like you stay away from like there's like and i'm always challenging our team to like make me say no because like if if i say no it's too far way too far yeah like and they have like our team has come up with some ideas where you're like, we're not touching that.
43:58Like we're not going to do that. And that's where you kind of know like, okay, there's a line. Like we're not going to go over that. But if you never hear that, that means your team's not trying hard. Yeah. They're doing a great, I mean, I just have the best creative team. It's easy though to like get caught up into me. Like it's speed now, right? Like when something happens culturally, great marketing is responding to that cultural moment fast. And sometimes you can like be like, we got to we got like let's put that out there but like for instance the cold play thing like i'm not really i'm not going to touch that because it's just sad yeah like it's just like that's kind of terrible and like lives are destroyed like if it's like if there's any negativity to something i try to just like say we're not going to do that it's like that's negative there's not a a fun element i think part of our our brand is fun so like i try to make sure there's like a fun lens on not like over like making fun all the time, but just fun.
44:54So that's good. So when thinking about these content teams that you have and how you're creating content, because you're in a technical space, are you more looking for people who really understand the industry and the lingo and can, you know, talk the talk? Or are you looking for people who are just amazing creatives that you can train up when it comes to the cybersecurity space? Yeah, no, it's a good question. People say, like, how do you build a team like to for the output that you guys do? I think there's like two separate worlds in content. There's product marketing content, and then there's content marketing, which I think are, they're connected, but they're different.
45:29And for me, I will have product marketers who have great technical depth, and they're working with the content marketers. Now, sometimes, like if you get product marketers from big companies, these people haven't made content for years. Like if you're coming to Torque, or if you're coming to a startup and you're a product marketer, you're making content. You got to be able to write. It's not just, you know, enablement content internally and meeting with the product marketing or the product team to do roadmap stuff. Like you're in the trenches making content with us. You got to be able to write, you got to be able to, you know, whether it's like blogs or white, like you're, you're writing with us.
46:08But for me, how we've organized our team is like, we have technical product marketers right now. We just have one, There's been one product, true product marketer. Shout out to Bob. And then we have one technical marketer that does a lot of the analyst relations and works closely with our CTO and the product team. Bob makes content. Bob's on video alongside Brit, who leads social. For me, I want technical people who can inform the content. And too often, I think it's like, oh, product marketing is just doing product roadmap, internal enablement. If you're coming to our team, like you're in the trenches making stuff with us.
46:47And so some of the more technical content will go to Bob. Okay, we need a white paper on, yeah, elastic scalability or whatever, right? That'll go to Bob. Oh, we need a blog on how security operations teams are burnt out. That'll go to our content marketers who work close with Bob. Why are they burnt out? You know, what are the leading indicators of burnout? What products, you know, what efficiencies could they gain if they adopted? torque agentic AI, right? Like that type of stuff. So they just, they're a team, but our product, for me, it's like, I need the people who are technically really, really knowledgeable and can sit with our product folks, but also need people who are just going to crank out tons of content for us and great writers.
47:28Yeah. Shout out to Michelle. There you go. Shout out to this whole team. They all sound great. Yeah, the whole squad. I mean, we're a very lean team too. It's like, I talk about all this stuff, but man, what a team behind me to be able to pull it all off. and the events. We did four events my first year at Torque. We did 95 events the second year, and we've done 160 events this year. So that type of scale and the sacrifice I think that people are making to go to these events on the weekends to go see these monster trucks, to make all this stuff happen is like, I talk about it, but there's just so much work that's being done behind the scenes.
48:01So. Yeah. Wow. Amazing. Yeah. So we're going to now move on to the lightning round. Yes. I'm excited for this. Now I'm going to start doing this more. Yeah. Yeah, it's good. All right. So you already know the lightning round. I'm sure I'm going to ask you a question and you have to just quickly, whatever's top of mind, you got to answer. Are you ready? Yes. Okay. First question. If I gave you$10 million right now, no strings attached, what kind of big marketing experiment would you spend it on? Superbowl ad. Superbowl ad? Yeah. I'd figure out how much, I think they're around like 8 million. Yeah.
48:33I don't know if that's like, again, I'm not there yet. Like, I don't know if that's for the media buy or like just like if that's let's just say I have 10 million I would do everything I could do a Super Bowl ad okay that's just a personal like that's all I want to do like if I once I do that it's like I'll go do something else what do you think would be in it like what would the concept be I have no idea I think it would I have no idea what it like I think our CFO would be like absolutely not and I think he did one okay your own CFO he I think did uh Wix I think he took Wix public and I think they did a Super Bowl ad and I think he was the CFO on who approved the Super Bowl ad and I think he's just like that was so dumb you know which it probably is dumb but I do wonder I mean the only way I I have heard it work well is when we had GoDaddy CMO on and she said they took their content and they cut it up afterwards it was also the story arc though kind of like what we've talked about like Walton Goggins, there's this whole narrative leading up to it.
49:29And, you know, is it a real, is it a real brand? Is it sunglasses? Is he really doing sunglasses? And then it just, I mean, they nailed that timing. Also just cultural relevancy too of Walton with White Lotus and Righteous Jumpstones. And now he's good. Like it was like brilliant. Yeah. I think it was about their website builder. I have no idea what it was about, but. Yeah. Yes. It was about their new product coming out showing not just domains. That would be a dream to do. I don't know if mine would be as, but again, that wasn't super straightforward either. Like that also is a, as a kind of a proof point of, of this kind of world building and this kind of misdirection marketers are doing now to keep you interested and to get you to lean in and want to like learn more about what is this?
50:09Yep. What is one sacred marketing belief that you think we'll be laughing at in a year or two? Oh man, that is a good one. Like a sacred marketing belief. I mean, I've never said I'm a data driven marketer. Like, like I heard that for years and I was like, uh, and I couldn't ever say it with a straight face. Like I'm a data driven marketer or like not me, not a data driven marketer. Yeah. So you think that'd be out? I think that's just kind of like, okay, like, you know, like it's kind of like terms changing. I'm a go to market engineer. Yeah. What does that mean? Like rev ops, you know, like I kind of think that these trends come in.
50:44Same with like, you know, if I was like Don Jeter, brand first CMO, brand led marketing. Yeah. I coined that brand led marketing. What does that even mean? That sounds kind of good. Yeah. TM. And that's not now, but that's always been this like, you got to be a data driven marketer. Yes. Use data to make informed decisions. Data driven marketer. Okay. Yeah. I'm done pretending that that's something that I'm, that I am. I'm not. Yeah, I like it. What is the last ad that you saw that made you go? Our ad. Other than your ad. You can't say your ad. That's coming out. Okay, which one? Tell me about it.
51:19I think it's like two weeks, 30 days, two weeks. Oh, perfect timing. We have a new ad coming out. It's incredible. I mean, look, we don't have GoDaddy budget, but we're trying and I think it's entertaining and it's very connected to the world. So like there's so many Easter eggs in this thing. So Trevor fans, sock gobbling, there's layers. here to unpack. And most people, no one will get it except our small team. I don't get it. I follow the world. There's little Easter eggs everywhere. So I think outside of that, jokes aside, there was an ad for some utility truck thing. I forget the name of the truck, but it showed how it's this incredible ad of how this truck can be used in all these different ways.
52:06It's like a it's almost like a new brand of truck. I forget. Oh, I know what you're talking about. You guys can like link it. It's like they're showing this like small company using this truck. It's like a taxidermy and they're moving like stuffing people like a human taxidermy service. And they're using this truck to to move bodies in and out of their taxiderm. And it's just it's so funny. It's so well done. It's so well written. That that's the latest ad that I'm like, man, that is just so funny. I love it. Good. Yeah. We'll definitely have to find that and play that. Okay. Imagine that you are on a deserted island.
52:38You're allowed to bring one book, one piece of software because your marketing brain just can't turn off. And then three other sea level leaders. Oh man, man. I don't want any sea level leaders. Well, I gotta be around Josh on an island. You gotta pick three. He's gonna take all the food, you know? Well, then don't pick Josh. No Josh. Uh, sea, sea level leaders, man, this is a weird island. You got to bring a computer, a book, and then you got to bring your friends. Like, uh, man, I like my favorite book is like shoe dog. Okay. Phil Knight book, just cause it's like so many little lessons. Like you remember for the rules you break, like so many little gems in there.
53:22Um, and just a great challenger brand story. Like I love challenger brands. Yeah. Um, software price. I'm going to help me get off the island yeah that sounds smart like yeah like like maybe slacker or like zoom there you go i need to make a call i like it i'm stuck on this island with josh who is josh is he on your team he's our cro yeah poor josh yeah i'm stuck on this island with josh he's eating all the food he's way bigger than me all right so josh he's like my big brother yeah okay who else do you have two other people no josh i would because he could probably like i bet he could hunt you know I bet he could.
53:55Man, from my team? No, no, anyone. Any sea level? Anyone you want. Just pick anyone. You're making this question hard. Well, I'm thinking about it. So I guess I got Josh on that island. Yeah, you already picked him though. You can't beat him. I'd probably bring Elon just to figure out how to get us off because that weirdo probably could get us off. Like off the island, right? He could like build something. Or like his satellites probably could help. But that would be problematic too. Like there's something there that wouldn't work either. I don't know. who would you bring? I would probably bring people like one person that's just a good vibe to be around.
54:29You said C-levels, right? Well, pick whoever you want at this point. Oh, well, definitely my wife and my son. Okay. Nevermind. Reverse. No, you can't go there. Instantly. No, you got to pick C-levels. Okay. Yeah. See, that's a weird - My grandma. No, no. Sunny, Steph. Yeah. I think I would pick someone who's a good vibe. I'd pick someone who's smart and can help get off and I would pick like a good brainstorming type of person. That's who I, that's kind of, kinds of people I'd probably go for. Man, I can't think of the third if it's just a C-level. Two it is then I guess. It's just, it's just Josh.
55:04I guess that's how we're living now, right? Like we need each other right now. It's like, you got to sell it, Josh. Yep. Yep. All right. Well, there's your answer. Woo. That was a long windy one. Yeah. Okay. Next question. If you weren't in marketing, what would you be doing? I think I'd probably try to be building some sort of brand some so i'd probably be failing as like a one of those like creatives in like california trying to be like a like you know multi-facet creative director somewhere you know starving probably i think like i'd love to be in consumer i think like somewhere you know like like a cd at like a big brand probably that's like i think torque is an amazing vehicle to do great creative work and it happens to work for for marketing and generating demand so yeah i think that somewhere in the creative world i'd be for sure don you were a great guest okay thank you for coming on marketing trends thank you where can where can people find out more about you and all the crazy marketing stunts you're doing linkedin i think it's like linkedin slash good marketing is my there you go yeah don jeter smash the subscribe button
From the publisher
Monster trucks, skeletons, and a CMO who doesn’t think about cost analysis very often.
In this in-studio conversation, Torq CMO Don Jeter breaks down how brand-led world-building beats feature dumps, why entertainment now matters more than information on the trade show floor, and how a Monster Jam partnership and an episodic LinkedIn “junior intern” series created real pipeline by earning mental real estate long before buyers are in-market. We get into the 60-day rebrand sprints, showing up at Black Hat, aligning sales and product so bold creative actually converts, measuring what matters when attribution gets fuzzy, and using AI for brainstorming without shipping “AI slop.”
Stick around to the lightning round where Don reveals his $10M marketing moonshot and the sacred marketing belief he thinks won’t age well. If you care about brand, demand, and breaking B2B sameness, watch through to the end and then queue it up on audio for the commute.
Key Moments:
00:00: Brand > Features: Cold Open
02:09: Rebrand to Stand Out (Not Blend In)
03:53: Trade Show Strategy + Monster Jam Booth
07:31: World-Building for B2B Brands
10:02: Episodic LinkedIn: Meet “Intern Trevor”
13:18: Do Bold Stunts Actually Drive Revenue?
20:16: Brand x Product x Sales: Tight Alignment
30:04: Polarizing on Purpose: Handling the Haters
34:30: Collabs, Culture & Consistency (Beyond F1)
38:52: AI for Ideas, Humans for Taste
45:00: Hiring Creatives + Technical PMM Muscle
48:03 Lightning Round (Super Bowl Ads, Hot Takes & More)
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