Your Rich BFF dishes on dopamine spending and the new money minefield, with Vivian Tu

16:22Vivian Tu:I promise you if there was a Monte Carlo simulation on any of the things that you could bet on on Polymarket or Kalshi, you would not have those kinds of numbers of 99 % odds of being able to make money. Like being a buy and hold investor is literally the easiest and laziest way to grow your wealth. And people won't do it. And they call that gambling. But you're willing to bet on, you know, how likely someone's going to say the word nuclear weapon during a press conference. Like that's insane to me.

16:55Bob Safian:I get questions from friends and family these days because the stock market has been at record levels about like, should I be buying stocks right now? Should I invest right now? Do you think people should be wary about buying, we know, whatever, tech stocks at record highs? Or is it just like, listen, you can't time the market. Just if you have money to invest, just invest.

17:17Vivian Tu:Bob, the market valuation has been frothy. We have been overvalued for like the past five years.

17:25Bob Safian:Yes.

17:25Vivian Tu:And at every point they have said, like, you know, I feel like Michael Burry's called 23 of the last two downturns. And I think it's just silly because, yes, I am going to sit here and guarantee you at some point the market is going to crash. Are you willing to miss out on annual returns of very literally, I'm not even making these numbers up. These are the past couple of years, 16%, 25%, 30 %?

17:56Bob Safian:Yeah.

17:57Vivian Tu:Are you? I'm not. I'm going to keep investing. and when the market turns down and when we see some sort of correction, I'm gonna buy even more then. I'm gonna keep buying and buying because guess what I told you earlier? I'm 31. I'm probably retiring closer to 60, 65. I got a long way to go and I'm probably gonna see a number of downturns. I'm gonna see a number of corrections over the course of my lifetime.

18:20Bob Safian:Which for you is probably good. Like I think about, you know, someone my age, I'm gonna be a net seller of stocks over time, right? So I want prices to go up, But for younger folks who are going to be net buyers over time, they want the market to go down, right? A crash would be the greatest thing for the 20-year-olds.

18:36Vivian Tu:A crash would be incredible for 20-year-olds. We never, ever, ever run from a sale except for the stock market. If Sephora has a sale where they're like everything's 75 % off, I tell you, the baddies on internet are running to the Sephora. They are getting their lip liner. They are getting their makeup. They are getting their skincare. They're so stoked. When the stock market goes on sale, all of a sudden you don't want it? Weird.

19:01Bob Safian:Yeah. Weird. Vivian just puts it out there. The weird, the practical, the infuriating. So just how realistic are Gen Z complaints about their challenges? And does uncertainty make us all less rational in our financial decision making? We'll talk about that more after the break. Stay with us.

19:31Bob Safian:This is Mike Nicholas, Capital One business customer and co-founder of Ansett Uncles, a plant-based restaurant and community space in Brooklyn, New York. And he's telling us how they started a product line. We already had a space in the community. The food was an extension of our lifestyle and our values. So we know we wanted to create something that was an offshoot to that. Our pepper sauce. That's my grandmother's recipe. That's like a liquid gold, right? If someone wants to approach us and ask us, what do we do? We provide flavor. Growing a product line is no small investment, but Mike and his wife and co-founder Nicole were able to manage with the help of their Capital One Business Card.

20:10Bob Safian:Working with Capital One Business, we're able to leverage our limits and utilize those points, making sure we can continue the scale at the speed that we need it to go. To learn more, go to CapitalOne.com slash business cards. AI breakthroughs are quickly reshaping every industry around the world. Healthcare, education, science, entertainment, and beyond. But true global scale only happens when the underlying infrastructure can maintain pace with the rapid speed of innovation. As the essential cloud for AI, CoreWeave is a purpose-built cloud made for the real demands of today's most complex AI models, bringing the pace, performance, and partnership leading pioneers need to continue pushing boundaries.

20:57Bob Safian:Ready for anything, ready for AI. To learn more about how CoreWeave powers the world's best AI, go to coreweave.com slash ready for anything. When you have a creative vision, you want total control from the first frame to the final render, which is why so many creative teams are using LTX2 from Lightrix. LTX2 is a next-generation open-source AI engine for audio and video built for teams who need production-ready quality and total control. It runs end-to-end creative workflows directly on your own device with 4K video, synchronized sound, and full creative flexibility. No bandwidth limits, no data leaving your machine, just the freedom to generate high-fidelity video with synchronized audio at roughly one-eighth the cost and one-seventh the rendering time of comparable tools.

21:53Bob Safian:Start creating at ltx.io slash model. Before the break, we heard financial educator Vivian Tu talk about her role as your rich BFF and what's behind her new book entitled Well Endowed. Now we talk about Gen Z's challenges, how the job market is shifting, and how to know what advice you can trust online. plus a rapid-fire round on home buying versus renting, car ownership versus the Uber life, the biggest financial mistakes smart people make, and more. Let's jump back in. We often hear that Gen Z doesn't feel great about its economic prospects right now, but unemployment is low, the economy is humming along, and I hear from some folks like, oh, younger people's expectations are too high.

22:43Bob Safian:And then, of course, other folks say, like, older people just don't get it.

22:47Vivian Tu:Everything is great. The economy is at an all-time high. It's not. It's at an all-time high for some people. And everything is great for some people. And I think this is the trouble with using the mean as our barometer of how healthy the economy is. When you hear things like, oh, well, GDP increased by XYZ and, like, unemployment is low. Like, we have actually seen that the top 10 % of Americans are accounting for half of all spending. Half. What does that tell you? It tells you that people who have money are living big. It is the greatest time ever to be a rich person. Right. But the thing is, is like the average person is actually doing worse.

23:37Vivian Tu:When you actually take an average, a mean figure of all of these uber rich people who've gotten uber richer versus people who've gone slowly and progressively less well to do where our middle class is very literally shrinking, you get a washed up figure that looks larger when in fact people are worse off. Ever since COVID, there has been a dramatic K-shaped divergence in how the economy, quote unquote, has done. For white collar employees who make six figures and more, who have the discretionary income to invest, yeah, y 'all got rich. And it has been a great time. It has been very fun. But for the folks who were already middle class, maybe working class, things have only gotten worse.

24:24Vivian Tu:The cost of living is completely unmanageable. Rent has gone up. Wages have continued to stagnate. There's nothing for them to look forward to. I completely understand why Gen Z is so deeply disenfranchised, why so many young men are turning to online betting. I completely get it. Because if you feel like there is no hope for you to have the American dream, what's the point?

24:49Bob Safian:When you've talked about jobs, you've talked about the idea of being up or out every couple of years, like trying to get a raise or finding a better paying employer. Does that look any different when the job market is tighter or is this like a full line?

25:04Vivian Tu:Sure does. Immediately post COVID, I truly believed in the up or out method. You needed to be getting a raise or a promotion every two years, or you needed to go up. If you couldn't get up, you got to get out. You got to go find somewhere else that's going to pay you and going to give you that raise, going to give you that promotion, going to give you that upward mobility. However, now we have actually, and this was not just because I felt like the vibe shift, but it was actually shown on data. We have now seen the amount that job jumpers and job stayers make converge. So it is no longer more lucrative to job jump.

25:39Vivian Tu:It is no longer more lucrative to try to find a promotion elsewhere. Right now in a tough job market, people are literally sending out thousands of applications to get two interviews. Like, if you can find a way to grow internally, if you can still be in the top 10 % of performers, you're still going to get raises and you still will probably get promoted. It's just not as easy as it was during the great resignation. We have to understand that, that like the actual environment shifts and we have to adjust ourselves to make sure that we are in the most advantageous position possible.

26:14Bob Safian:At this time of year, the start of the year, there can be this sort of this impetus, this pressure to reset budgets and habits and goals. Can people go wrong in moments like this? What tends to backfire?

26:28Vivian Tu:Too large of a shift can backfire. So I always I'm like, OK, this is the year I get physically fit. I eat right. And then after four days of rabbit food and working out every single day, I'm like, me thinks not. I'm going to order a taco and then sit on the couch for eight hours. I don't think that you can yo-yo diet your way into wealth. It is truly like making a healthy lifestyle choice. Unfortunately, you have to do it kind of forever. So with money, it's not about January 1st. You're like, oh my gosh, I am going to start saving. I'm never going to spend money again. Everything's going to be amazing.

27:09Vivian Tu:Like it's not that. It's making little choices over the course of the year, and it might take you the full year. It's every single Friday evening when you get home from work, do one thing that helps you financially. Maybe that's opening up a high-yield savings account, so all of a sudden the money sitting around waiting for your rainy day can actually earn you a little bit of extra interest. Maybe it's building out a plan to pay off your debt. Maybe it's organized by highest to lowest interest rate, So you're doing it most mathematically efficiently. Maybe it's, okay, I am going to go change where my direct deposit is deposited.

27:47Vivian Tu:So it's not all going into my checking account. 10 % is automatically going into a savings account. That'll make it easier for me because the hardest thing to do with money and frankly, anything else in your life is willpower your way through it. I don't have enough willpower for that.

28:00Bob Safian:Today, there's so much uncertainty, you know, prices, jobs, politics. Do you see that shaping how people behave with their money? Like, are they less rational in financial decision making?

28:14Vivian Tu:It's like, well, if you don't think you're going to be able to afford a home or you don't think you're going to be able to go on that actual vacation you want, it becomes like the Estee Lauder lipstick index of, oh, well, I can't afford a new TV, so I'm going to go to the drug store and get myself a little lipstick. Or I'm going to dollar dribble for a little coffee. I'm going to do this. I'm going to like, you're spending on things that you will not ultimately derive true happiness out of true pleasure, true joy, just to like get a dopamine hit. When you are in a position of uncertainty, it is more important than ever to have a plan.

28:49Vivian Tu:Because if you just leave it up to like hope, it's not going to get you there.

28:55Bob Safian:I got to get into the AI discussion. Lots of folks are using AI tools these days for financial decisions, budgeting, investing, even taxes. But a lot of surveys say that for a lot of these folks, it's led them to some bad decisions sometimes. Where do you think AI can genuinely help with money? Where should we be more wary?

29:18Vivian Tu:Well, I want to be very clear that none of the AI LLMs, like the, you know, the chat GBTs of the world, like none of them are financially licensed. not to like, you know, be so self-serving, but like that is in part why I built out my venture called Ask Dolly. Askdolly.com, check it out. We are actually an SEC registered RIA. And if you ask, ask Dolly, too complex of a question that is not knowledge-based, but rather personal-based, we transfer you to one of our CFPs.

29:54Bob Safian:I just want to say RIA is registered investment advisor. their CFP is Certified Financial Planner, right? Oh, sorry, guys.

30:00Vivian Tu:Yeah, I just, like, we saw that AI is the next iteration of financial, like, exploration, and it really does help people on their financial journeys. They get to ask the embarrassing questions that they're too ashamed to ask. But I don't think that AI can operate independently of a little bit of human touch, and frankly, someone who is licensed to provide you financial advice, because it is so personal, and there are so many factors to take into account.

30:27Bob Safian:I mean, there are a lot of people online, creators like yourself, who offer financial advice. Not all of them are licensed or registered. Right. Well, and how do you know if something you come across on a social platform or online, that it's reputable, that it's worthwhile? I mean, we get this with health advice. We get it with money advice.

30:52Vivian Tu:What I say is, even with my content, if you see something and you're like, I wonder if this is true, you need to be doing your own research. Watch my video and then go online and check, can I find three reputable sources that back up what she's saying? You'll always be able to because I actually research my topics. But like, go look at articles from the Wall Street Journal, from the Financial Times, from Barron's, from law firms or banks or like compare them. We have unfettered access now. So there is no excuse for falling for a trap. Like you actually have to do your own research.

31:32Bob Safian:And you have to understand how the people who you're engaging with, how they make their money. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, are there things you've learned as a creator yourself that you think people don't really understand about how creators make money?

31:47Vivian Tu:Yeah, 100%. Like, you wonder why all of those lifestyle influencers were pushing Stanley Cups and all of the little charms that then go on the Stanley Cup and then all of the, like, they make an affiliate commission on the back end. She doesn't love her Stanley Cup. She wants you to buy one so she gets money. I always am very, very honest. when I do brand partnerships, I'm like, these keep my content free. This is why you don't have to pay a subscription fee for this. This is why I can do all of this editorial work unpaid is because I make money. But at the end of the day, whether or not you get the high yield savings account, I recommend you should just get one anyway.

32:27Bob Safian:Are you saying that Matt Damon and Ben Affleck don't love Dunkin' Donuts? Is that what you're saying?

32:34Vivian Tu:I'm saying that I have tasted Dunkin' Donuts coffee. It's good, but it's not the only coffee out there.

32:42Bob Safian:So I'd love to ask you a few rapid fire questions if I can get your advice on things. All right. So what's the biggest money mistake that smart people make?

32:55Vivian Tu:I think it's just lifestyle inflation, especially for people who start to make more money. You make a little bit more money. You spend a little bit more money. You make a little bit more money. You spend a little bit more money. And then at the end of the year, you're like, Like, how come I don't have any additional money saved? All of us fall victim to the comparison trap where we compare our lives with everybody we see on social media. And suddenly you think that if you don't have X, Y, and Z, you have a bad life. You don't need to be spending on stuff just to impress other people.

33:21Bob Safian:All right, next question. If I could focus on just one thing financially this year, what should it be?

33:28Vivian Tu:Trying to increase your income because my mentor told me this one line and it's stuck in my brain forever. She said, you can only save as much as you earn, but you can always earn more money. We talk so much like cut out the avocado toast, don't buy the latte, don't get the little treat. Imagine how many little joys in your life you would have to cut out to save$5 ,000. Now imagine how easy it is to ask for a$5 ,000 raise. frankly, people get much larger raises than that. It is so much easier for you to make more money than to try and cut every little thing out. All right.

34:08Bob Safian:Next question. How much time should I spend on optimizing my credit card rewards?

34:15Vivian Tu:Not too much because one, credit card points are devaluing by the day. They make a new rule every three months and they get worse. Sure. Maybe will you lose a couple extra points here and there, yeah. But the time you save and the less mind space you're giving to it is probably worth it.

34:34Bob Safian:Home ownership, rent or buy in 2026? How do we decide?

34:39Vivian Tu:This is an insane question because real estate is so geographically focused. I cannot sit here and be like, you should rent or buy. I don't know where you live. And in some cases, the answer is different based on where you live. What I do know is that it is currently cheaper to rent than buy in 70 % of all major metros. And frankly, we should all be looking at our own lifestyles and asking ourselves a couple questions. One, do we plan on being here for longer than five to seven years at a minimum? If not, you're not buying. Are you in a position in your career to potentially have the opportunity to make massive leaps and bounds for a little bit of flexibility?

35:21Vivian Tu:So is there a chance you might be transferred to the Tokyo office? You being able to be flexible might be the reason why you get that position versus somebody else, and having that flex might help you. So renters win. But there is something to be said about building equity. Ask yourself this question. Do you want to build that equity in your primary residence, or would it be smarter to maybe just buy an investment property somewhere that is a little cheaper and then continuing to rent your primary residence? If you are planning on building out a family and you really want to paint the walls and you want to have the nursery and you want to do all of these things, maybe renting is not the right move.

35:53Vivian Tu:maybe you want to buy. Again, we go back to that five to seven years at a minimum because the fixed costs of buying a home are very expensive. You have mortgage origination fees and you got to pay some broker fees. You got to pay fee-fi-fo-fum. If you're going to pay all that, you got to be staying there for at least a little bit. All right.

36:13Bob Safian:Car ownership. Lease or buy or Uber only?

36:18Vivian Tu:It's up to you. I actually don't own a car. My husband and I actually tinkered around the idea of getting one. But I think from ease of not having to pay for parking, not having to pay for gas, not having to pay for insurance, I am not commuting so much that I would actually need that. I split my time Miami and New York. In New York, there is ample public transportation. In Miami, I largely work from home. And if I do need to go somewhere, I can call a ride share. But I just think that like you have to factor in all of the costs, not just the cost of buying the car or leasing the car. It's the insurance.

36:56Vivian Tu:It's the gas. It's the maintenance. It's I want to go every time I need to go buy groceries. I'm like, wow, it would be so nice to have a trunk. But I think about, you know, all the money that I'm saving. I'll just order Instacart. Like, I think you have to think about how much you're driving. So for folks who need to commute for work, that's a really big question. But also, if you are trying to buy something, you need to be willing to drive that thing into the ground. If you are leasing and you want to have something new every other year, great. But just know that you might be paying more for that.

37:30Vivian Tu:So it's up to you. Personal finance is personal. I really do believe that. So what does it mean to be rich?

37:39Bob Safian:Is it a number?

37:41Vivian Tu:It's not a number. I think having true wealth is having the ability to make decisions where finance isn't a consideration factor. The greatest asset that rich people have is like not having to think about money. So when you are in the position to be like, I can wait because I don't need this gig or I want to, you know, wait for a different job, even if it doesn't pay as well. I want something that I really believe in. When you have that time freedom, when you have that choice freedom, I think that's truly being rich.

38:11Bob Safian:should um should i live for today or save for tomorrow why not do both bob i think you can

38:18Vivian Tu:still have a little bit of fun today but also make sure that you're taking care of tomorrow you because you know i know so many people are like well an asteroid is going to hit the earth and it's not going to matter anyway sure okay but what if it doesn't what if the asteroid does not hit us and then you're 60 65 and you don't have a dollar saved which by the way one in four americans has zero dollar save for retirement. If you have nothing, you're going to really regret it. You're going to be older. Maybe all your friends are retired. And now you're going to be working until you die. And that sucks.

38:49Bob Safian:Looking ahead to 2026, do you have one piece of personal finance advice you'd give to almost anyone, something to wrap this up?

39:00Vivian Tu:Be very, very choosy with who you decide to spend the rest of your life with because your partner is the biggest financial decision you will ever make. Life is so hard already. You cannot afford to have a hater at home. It has been shown in studies that people with conscientious partners on average every single year make 4 % more. This is someone who understands you when you're busy at work, understands that you may not be as attentive to the dishes. This is someone who encourages you to take those big swings. This is that person who backs you, who's your number one cheerleader. And you didn't hear me say this person has no debt.

39:38Vivian Tu:You didn't hear me say this person is very, very wealthy and comes from an oligarch family. What you heard me say is you want a partner who understands you, who values a dollar the same way you do. I have a husband that when we met, he made so much more money than me. He never made me feel less than for making less than he did. And now I am the breadwinner in our family. and you have never seen someone more proud. He is my number one fan. He has been my number one supporter. And I think that I spend the entire day fighting the rest of the world. I get to come home and I have someone to fall into and just someone who I know is going to be there for me.

40:19Vivian Tu:And I think we should all have that.

40:20Bob Safian:Well, Vivian, congratulations because not everyone can find that. So, you know.

40:25Vivian Tu:I found him in the basement of a dive bar. So you can find love in a hopeless place.

40:29Bob Safian:You never know. You never know.

40:31Vivian Tu:You never know.

40:32Bob Safian:Well, Vivian, this was great. Thanks so much for doing it.

40:35Vivian Tu:Thank you so much for having me.

40:38Bob Safian:Gotta say, I have a lot of heart for Vivian, and not just because I was also running a personal finance media platform when I was her age. I love that she boils down the complexity that hinders so many financial decisions into their essence. And I love that she's willing to be vulnerable from her own car ownership decisions to her relationship with her husband. My time working in personal finance was so useful, in part because it trained me to prioritize what's really most important, what's worth spending on or investing on, and what's a distraction. Whether we're talking about our personal finances or our businesses, building the right habits, asking the right questions, and zeroing in on what matters most, that really is the road to value creation, whether you count that in dollars or share value or in human relationships.

41:25Bob Safian:I'm Bob Safian. Thanks for listening.

41:36Vivian Tu:We were awarded this incredible contract to put on an event for 2 ,000 people.

41:42Bob Safian:The budget was around$1.5 million. It was a black tie event. There was a jazz band playing and a cigar bar and a bourbon bar. That's Natasha Miller, Capital One business customer and CEO of Entire Productions, a corporate event management company. And she's telling us how she had to float a large contract for nine months. It was really hard since we were carrying that$1.5 million, most of which passed through to pay for the venue and all the vendors and all the food and beverage. It's this waterfall effect. Thankfully, we were able to handle that with the Capital One credit cards, which have a 2 % cash back on everything.

42:23Bob Safian:For Natasha, it wasn't just the financial support from Capital One Business, but the personal investment as well. I had incredible support from my personal banker, Callie. I knew that at any point I was in trouble that I can call her, which I've never had before in a bank, ever. With the help of Callie and her Capital One business card, Natasha was able to stretch every dollar in order to bring this monumental event to life. To learn more, go to CapitalOne.com slash business cards. While everyone was debating whether or not Bitcoin was an asset for their portfolio, CoinShares was quietly building the foundation to invest in it properly.

43:03Bob Safian:CoinShares launched the world's first Bitcoin ETP back in 2015. Today, they manage nearly$6 billion and are profitable through multiple market cycles. CoinShares has publicly traded on NASDAQ Stockholm and announced in September it is seeking a US listing. CoinShares is the one-stop shop for digital asset investment, passive ETFs, active strategies, and mining exposure. Every approach built to institutional standards. CoinShares. The adults have arrived. Learn more at coinshares.com. Rapid Response is a Wait What original. I'm Bob Safian. Our executive producer is Eve Trow. Our producer is Alex Morris.

43:48Bob Safian:Associate producer is Mashimaku Tonina. Mixing and mastering by Aaron Bastinelli. Our theme music is by Ryan Holiday. Our head of podcasts is Lital Malad. For more, visit rapidresponseshow.com.

44:08Congratulations myув along with

44:32ultimate