#1045 - Joe Hudson - How to Take Control of Your Emotions

37:01bro i don't think i've i don't think i've ever heard a better explanation of why people transmute anger into sadness they don't get mad they get sad they turn this displeasure outward to displeasure inward because sadness is pro-social and it causes people to come and take care of you whereas anger is anti-social it causes people to run away yeah fucking brilliant which is strange because i think like there's a i'm sure a lot of your audience they are or they deal with somebody who is who is um angry has like a temper on them and one of the things that i've noticed is that when somebody has that temper and then somebody gets scared of the anger, then the anger usually grows.

37:53Because what's happening there is the person who's angry is like, I'm out of control. I don't feel safe. I feel helpless and I don't want to feel helpless. And so I'm getting angry and then they're getting abandoned. Like, oh, and then they get even more angry because they feel even more helpless. I think there's a difference as well. I was telling you about this conversation I had with Charlie Hooper, and he's talking about people that move from victimhood status to action agency status to emotionally in tune status. and it looks like you're actually going backward because previously you were also kind of ruled by your emotions but not through transcending and including and alchemizing them but through them just being the winds of the day that sort of blew you around without you being able to step into them and i think maybe sort of raw unaware anger is not too dissimilar to that yeah you know somebody who's raging and breaking things and unable to sort of hold themselves together.

38:59Uh, I'm interested in that, that arc between like instinctual anger and intuition, like intuitive anger, perhaps. Yeah. Maybe that's the wrong terminology. Yeah. So the way I think about it is like, we have these emotions, let's call it like a tube of, of an energy running through us and we'll call this one anger. And then if you kind of kink it one way, it's nice dress. Or if you kink it another way, it's I'm going to be late and I'm going to be passive aggressive. You kink it another way, it's yelling, it's screaming. But in any of the cases, there's shame around the anger. Instead of what the anger actually it is when it starts moving fluidly in your system is it's a cause for action and a cause for boundaries so when i notice that i'm angry now i'm like oh i'm angry i'm like oh there's a boundary that needs to be drawn i know there's a boundary that needs to be drawn somewhere there's some way in which i am there's something i care about that i'm not standing for and i need to stand for it yeah let's talk about boundaries um pop psychology favorite word of the world people weaponizing it from their couples counseling to that you've crossed about this is me holding a boundary no it's not you being an asshole like yes um what do good bad boundaries look like how do slippery malleable pliable boundaries turn into anger give me the give me the equation there yeah so uh boundaries the the two easy ones to say for boundaries is the first one is that you're not ever telling somebody else what they're supposed to do that's a power struggle it's not a boundary it's you telling them what you're going to do okay can you give me an example yeah the former and the latter yeah uh i'm gonna draw what i would say is a a power struggle boundary not a real boundary would be every time you get angry i'm gonna punch you in the face or every time you get angry uh you need to leave the house every time you get angry you need to uh apologize to me you need to stop yelling that's that whereas the other one is every time you get angry, I'm going to leave the house.

41:10Every time you get angry, I'm going to ask you to stop yelling at me. And if you don't, I'm going to leave the house and I'm going to come back in 20 minutes. And then we can continue the conversation unless you yell at me again, and then I'm going to do the same thing. So one is this is what I'm going to do. I'm the one that gets to choose for me. I'm not choosing for you. So that would be one really good thing a boundary. If you're doing anything where you're telling somebody else what they have to do, it's not a boundary. It's a power struggle. And it just shows that you're in fear and shame.

41:41You're basically passing fear and shame back and forth in the relationship. The second one is, and this is the one that will bend people's minds when they try it, is whatever the boundary is, it makes it that I'm more capable of loving you, no matter what your response. So it opens my heart to you. A great boundary opens my heart to you because it's very, very hard for us to love anything that we think oppresses us. So if I draw a boundary that opens my heart, it means that I no longer see you as the oppressor. It's, oh, I have the capacity to do what I need to do here and take care of myself, which means that you can't oppress me.

42:26so that's how i that's how i i that's how i teach how to draw boundaries and what happens when you don't enforce the boundaries well there's nothing to enforce because it's just what you're doing okay well what happens if you don't do what your boundary would suggest that you're supposed to do or don't say that that's going to happen what happens when they're too pliable like what's the oh yeah so that's that's okay so that's a cool thing about boundaries. So what happens is if somebody is scared that they're not going to maintain their boundary, what typically they'll do is they'll either do it really, really harsh.

43:01They'll be like, I'm going to leave you every single time. You yell at me, I'm out of the door. They'll do something like that, which unfortunately makes it harder for the person who's hearing the boundary to hear the boundary and more of a resistance going on. So you're saying, oh, I'm scared. I'm going to i'm going to flake and therefore i have to be really really strong about this and then um and so so that's so that's typically what's happening the reason that people are usually scared or i'm freezing okay so i'm gonna put a hoodie on keep going um but whereas people are are but if if you really look at what the fear is underneath it the fear is that i'm gonna lose connection the reason that i'm not going to draw the boundary is because I think that you won't love me if I hold the boundary.

43:52And so that's usually why people are scared of that they don't are consistent with the boundary. The other thing that happens is that the boundary will change over time naturally if you're doing them right. Because once you realize that you're not oppressed, you don't need the same kind of boundaries. So if I think about my father who was an alcoholic, my first boundary with him was like, I'm not going to be around you if you are drinking. And then it was, I'm not going to be around you if you're drunk or hungover. And then it was, oh, I'm not going to be around you if you treat me like this, this, or this, whether you're drunk or hungover or not.

44:34And I can be around you if you're drunk or hungover, but if you treat me like this, I'm out. Oh, interesting. So once you start learning that, oh, I actually am the one, I get to control my own destiny. I get to control whether I'm cared for, I get to control if I'm loving myself, then all of a sudden the boundaries become less necessary or they become softer, more open-hearted. How much of this is a fear of being seen, being sort of truly, say, this is me, this is what I want, my desires are legitimate.

45:15um yeah i would yeah i yes yes i think some of it's maybe more accurately put as is a shame of this is who i am this is what i want and this is how i actually want to live my life like i'm not allowed to do that i like it's like it's a weird thing that our mind will do and it'll be like no i i actually need to bend to get this kind of love i need to i need to be different i need to not want that much attention i need to not be angry i need to not like we have this whole list of things that we have to do and and it's like it's a process of realizing that all of those things that are actually okay and we can be loved for them as well why are more or why are people more comfortable with silently suffering than being seen sometimes it's shame it's shame it's like the it's a the general thought process that there's something wrong with you like that's that's the that's the thing and and and vulnerability is the cure for that like if you whether you think about it as like 12-step programs where the whole thing is i'm gonna say all the things that i'm ashamed about and i'm gonna be able to be loved in that shame and i'm gonna see that other people are going through that and i've done that and i can see that they're good lovely people um who've made a mistake and so i can also be a good lovely person who made a mistake that's the antidote for the shame so the the biggest issue is that when people keep all that to themselves there's no real air for the shame to decompose right so it's it never becomes the compost for a better life it just becomes this rancid thing that's that's interesting buried deep that's a cool analogy yeah yeah you've got this line uh the strongest smoke signals that you're avoiding in emotion number one looping thoughts endless overthinking yeah number two binary decisions, feeling stuck between two options.

47:26Number three, harsh judgments of others. Yeah. Most inner work fails because it's done from the same self-rejection it's trying to heal. I feel like those are linked together. Yeah. The fear one's interesting because I said binary thinking there that you think of things black or white. Buy the car, don't buy the car. Do the podcast, don't do the podcast. leave the girl, stay with the girl. That's an immediate, that's fear unexpressed. That's what that is. So when we're scared, we go into binary thinking. And it's why fear is really not a great ally for good problem solving or getting the most out of a situation because you start limiting your perspective to binary.

48:18And so that one's particular binary, particularly fear the binary thinking one the one on judgment that's really there's no time that we're judging somebody when they're when what's actually happening is there's emotion we don't want to feel could you give an example yeah so i am judging uh somebody for hawking element tea on the thing um rightly so not we love not not at all yeah

48:57what's actually happening there is if I sit with it, I'm like, oh, if I couldn't feel that judgment, that's the question you ask. If I couldn't feel that judgment, what would I have to feel? And what I might feel is jealousy that you have a great sponsor who's aligned with you. Or I might feel like I might have this idea that anytime I'm trying to sell myself or make money, I'm bad. and since I don't allow it in myself, I can't allow it in you. So I'm feeling that own, because of course we're all selling ourselves on some level. So of course I feel the shame of selling myself. So maybe it's the shame, but there's always something underneath the judgment that we're not feeling.

49:35And if you ask yourself that question, it's like an immediate resolve of judgment. What's the question again? Yeah, it's if I couldn't feel that judgment, what would I have to feel?

49:46So you can literally just go into any judgment that you have. And, and just find it like, and usually they're best for like moms, dads, or girlfriends, but you can say like a boyfriend's, you can say, oh, I judged my girlfriend for this. And then if I couldn't feel that judgment, what would I have to feel? And it just, you start seeing what the parts of yourself that you're not allowing. What about a practical way to break the loop of rumination, looping thoughts, endless overthinking? Express emotions. Don't express them at people. don't go yelling at people or being sad at somebody or being scared at somebody which is typically what humans do which is why we think that emotions are so bad it's like i'm angry so i'm going to get angry at you or i'm scared so i'm going to like be really scared at you so that you take on my fear and so nobody wants that but we we've mistaken the emotion for the aggression in the emotion which is like you're doing it at somebody instead of just having the emotion but if you're overthinking I've seen this you've seen this like we do this in that week long that you participated in and we do it in our other courses too the longer ones somebody has an emotional expression and immediate clarity on the other side of it I know what I need to do so that rumination is just I'm trying and the way to think about it intellectually is this I am trying to I'm trying to solve a problem.

51:14The problem I'm trying to solve is I don't want to feel a certain way. So should I take Element or should I not take Element as a sponsor? So I'm in binary thinking, I'm in fear because of whatever, and I'm looping on it over and over and over again. I don't want to feel like I'm wrong for having taken it, and I don't want to feel like I don't have enough money or poverty if I don't take it. I have these two feelings that I'm trying to avoid. And so if you are good with any of the feelings because you feel them, you're like, oh, well, I'm going to feel this. I'm going to feel that. I'm going to feel it all.

51:50Then all of a sudden the decision is really easy to make. A quick aside, if you have been feeling a bit sluggish, your testosterone levels might be the problem. They play a huge role in your energy, your focus, and your performance. But most people have no idea where those are or what to do if something's off, which is why I partnered with function because I wanted a smarter, more comprehensive way to understand what's happening inside of my body. Twice a year, they run lab tests that monitor over a hundred biomarkers and their team of expert physicians analyze the data and give you actionable advice to improve your health and lifespan.

52:20Seeing your testosterone levels and tons of other biomarkers charted over the course of a year with actionable insights to improve them gives you a clear path to making your life better. And unfortunately, getting your blood work drawn and analyzed like this usually costs thousands, but with Function, it's just$499 and you can get an additional$100 off, bring it down to$399. Get the exact same blood panels that I get and save$100 by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com slash modern wisdom. That's functionhealth.com slash modern wisdom. You have a decisions course?

52:55Yeah. I haven't done it. I've already heard you talk about you can't make a decision without emotions. If you are some patient going through some weird quasi-lobotomy thing. It takes you half an hour to choose which crayon to write with or what sandwich you want, etc. I think people are usually pretty familiar with those sorts of experiments. What is a little deeper about the relationship between making good decisions or making any decision and your relationship to yourself, voice in the head, your emotions. Yeah. So the emotion side of it is the easiest to think about.

53:42So we are making decisions to feel a certain way. We're, how do I feel good? How do I feel like a winner? How do I not feel rejected? How do I, this is what makes us make a decision. We want to feel right. or like not wrong, whatever it is, safe. And so that's what we're making decisions for. And if you think about it in a very minute way, why am I doom scrolling? Why did I decide to doom scroll? I decided because I don't want to feel whatever angst that I'm having. This is going to help me not feel that. Loneliness, boredom. Boredom, whatever it is. So we're making our decisions to feel and to not feel certain ways.

54:23If you start to learn to fall in love with all the emotions, which basically means not resist them, which basically means accept all the parts of yourself that weren't accepted as a kid so that you can actually be yourself, then decisions are just automatic. They're simple because this is my truth. I want to do this. I'm okay if it means that I have to mourn something. It's okay if people get upset at me. It's okay. And this is what creates hyper-success in people too, which is interesting. if you look at the if you look at the evidence people who are okay being disagreeable or disagreeable on the ocean scale meaning that they're not trying to make sure everybody's happy they're okay if people are upset with them are far more likely to be successful in a hyper successful way than people who need everybody around them to be happy um they're also going to get paid more money there's a whole bunch of like they'll ask for the raise they'll go up to the person at the meeting exactly they'll do all the things because they're okay with somebody and so you can either do that by being like a stone-cold asshole or you can do it by and that works no doubt or you can do it by actually falling in love with all of your emotions and then you're like oh cool like this is my truth and i'm okay with whatever emotional consequence there is to it and you can't do that without an open heart so you have a closed heart you have a closed heart you're trying not to feel open heart basically just means i'm feeling everything that's what it means yeah it i everybody has a recency bias uh i guess it's strange because my recency bias the order of things that i've learned on the show is not always the order of the way that they're published yeah i'm like fucking uh christopher nolan's tenet and i'm like you know looping back on something but i i keep thinking about this Charlie conversation I had, and he talks about congruence, this beautiful idea about congruence.

56:21You look at the person that's the victim, their head, heart, and loins are aligned, even if they're miserable and at the mercy of the world, because they're doing the thing that they feel. It's rough-hewn and uncrafted and unrefined, but it's happening. Then you move into action, and you're like, well, head, heart, and loins as well. You would look at a Trump, put a Tate around this and you'd think, say what you want about them. They're fucking fully incongruence. Like there is no doubt I am doing the thing. I'm the best, the best ever, like, you know, like fucking hardest guy in the plot, whatever it is, like they're incongruence.

56:54But then when you start to move into the open heart thing, the valley of despair, total white belts, like speaking to the fucking, you know, teacher here. But as far as I can see, one of the pains that people feel when making that move into living with an open heart is the incongruence starts to come back in, they are uncertain about the stuff that they used to do. And it's like, I used to get results when I just was the asshole, when I was disagreeable without an open heart or as disagreeable, how do you say like from, from disposition, not from curation or not from awareness, perhaps like, like unconsciously competent as opposed to consciously competent.

57:37But to go through that, you go through consciously incompetent first, because you're like, oh, God, I used to have these patterns and these ways of operating. And now I need to work out how to integrate, transcend, and include all of this stuff to get back to the place that I was. And it's like, yeah, but it's not the same as having never left. like to go on this big fuck off journey this is the story of paulo coelho's the alchemist right like the gold's in the backyard but like you got to go on the fuck off journey to come back around to land at the same place yeah um but that lack of congruence is where people go oh well this this is obviously wrong like there's obviously something wrong because previously i was getting results now i'm not even sure if i'm doing the right thing and i've lost the fucking results at least in part in this little valley bit in the middle before you get back to it's started to slot back together and i've got something appropriate and competence again yeah i think that there's there's a couple things that are missing from that story the first thing i think is missing from the story is whatever you were getting wasn't good enough beer you wouldn't fucking be on the journey so so yeah you were getting results but the results weren't what you wanted or you wouldn't that there'd be no impetus to go on the journey.

58:47There's something missing. And so, yeah, maybe you're not getting results like you used to get, but the results you used to get were - Weren't the results you wanted. Weren't the results you wanted. So I think that's one part that I think is missing in the journey. The other thing that I don't really see it is you become less capable. That's not my experience. It sometimes happens. It sometimes doesn't. But the way I see it is that you no longer can deal with the lack of congruity that's there. meaning there there's some sort of congruence that happens where the andrew tates of the world they are they there it's like there's a deep authenticity like there just is a deep authenticity you might not like it you might not want it but there's like this deep authenticity but there's not i wouldn't i wouldn't call it a congruence i wouldn't call it a deep alignment with because the there's still this big war inside of themselves like you're what you're looking at their war so to some degree it's like, yeah, they can get things done in the world.

59:46But the journey is I'm getting something done in the world, but I still feel this war inside of myself. How do I get things done in the world and not be at war with myself? That's the question. And what happens on that journey is at some point you're so sensitive that you know the war is going on in yourself. You've gotten to the point where you're like, I get it. There's something going on that sucks and I don't want it which is what is the beginning of the journey so i think the words i would use but i i get charlie's words and i love charlie um is that that i would call that there's a there's a authenticity but there's not like that deep alignment there's still war they're still in war with themselves yeah they're still trying to prove something well i think they're still trying like you're the most powerful man in the world and you still need x y and z or you're the the media celebrity but you still need there's still something you're trying to prove and so that's what drops the thing that it makes me think about is

1:00:50someone, uh, somebody who goes from that authenticity to true congruence, right? Where the heart actually starts to align with the actions and sort of the desires. Being exposed to somebody or being seen by somebody who doesn't have that level of awareness. I mean, like having to dance around the words a little bit because I don't want it to sound like a value judgment for people who like don't feel things so very deeply as if there's some sort of amount of worth that comes along with that. But they're just are. There's certain people who are going to question things more, feel things more, be more self-aware, self-reflective, ruminative, do the hypervigilance obsessive thing, and just pay attention to what's going on internally and externally a little bit more.

1:01:38And I think one of the challenges as an avatar for that type of person is you are seen by people for whom that is not going to be their future, that is not going to be their path, and they're just locked in in authenticity at action, action and results. And like the emotions piece is not going to play a huge role or as huge of a role perhaps in their future. Um, it's playing a huge role. It's just, they're not going to be aware. That might be a better way to put it. And, uh, you trying to have that conversation as somebody who's trying to take that step with somebody who isn't now or maybe ever, results in you looking kind of silly in some ways.

1:02:27It takes a kind of bravery, I think, to avoid the social judgment of somebody who sees you as not evolving into your emotions, but devolving back out of them into like, oh my God, you're just being driven around by your emotions. Like how irrational, as opposed to, oh, how beautiful you're diving into them. and that there's already enough self-doubt and uncertainty and fear and shame around, you know, like I'm starting to feel like I just teared up on playing the song, like how silly.

1:03:01I'm interested of how people navigate. And I think this is what I said about living in the world with an open heart is some of this different level communication thing. And you're speaking in not only different dialects, but totally different languages with people. And that can, it can be easy to be mocked, to feel silly. How do you, how do you think about navigating that? Because it would be lovely to just have a perfect, beautiful, supportive container or your own amount of self-belief so much that the container no longer matters, but you're going to, you're going to interact with that, like, you know, alpha Chad or alpha boss bitch lady or guy at work around the water cooler is like fucking gay that dude like whatever yeah how do you think about navigating that spikiness of the world with the sensitivity open heart truth boundary like all of that stuff yeah so there's a couple ways i think about the first the first way i think about it is imagine you are i'm gonna get in trouble for this but you're an isis terrorist and you have a whole bunch of isis terrorist friends they're gone it's fucking uh hezbollah now right hezbollah yeah uh Hezbollah terrorists or whatever, you're with a whole bunch of terrorist friends.

1:04:12And one day you're like, oh, I realized I probably shouldn't be blowing up innocent people. Well, as it turns out, and then you're asking me, what do I do? And all my friends are like, no, you should blow up people, innocent people. It's like, yeah, to some degree, what it is, is that there's some people who judge you and who think you're dumb for working out. There's some people who judge you think you're dumb for needing as much of attention on a podcast some people think you're dumb for being on a reality television show some people think you're dumb for being a guru

1:04:47it's the problem with actually bringing someone on who really knows you yeah fine fine or think you're dumb for like teaching the emotional stuff like tizing about blah blah exactly so so there's always going to be some people who do that and so the question is how how do you handle that in all the places that it's already happening? And what makes this particular place being emotional, the sensitive place, because I see you do it and everybody do it on 20 other things. But, but then there's this one thing that it's like hard to do it on. And it's usually an indication, indication of that. That's where you're judging yourself.

1:05:25If you're not judging yourself, then they say, that's like emotional blah, blah. Like you're just a pansy. And the response is, yeah, yeah, Yeah, I'm emotional. And I love myself. And that's okay. Yeah, yeah. It's like, there's this great term I heard recently called vagal authority. Are you familiar with this term? Vagal authority. Authority. Oh, that's sick. I like it already. So it's basically my nervous system, the calmness of my nervous system is going to have authority in the room. So in Japan, the police are taught this and they're taught never to raise their voice. a way that we learn it in the states is paramedics never run to the body they always walk to the body no way because they don't want to amp up the they don't want the other person to feel like scared and then it amps their adrenal system so it's like this vagal authority when somebody says that to you and you maintain vagal authority it's over and you see this with like little kids bullying each other there's this great youtube video and hopefully we can i can send you the link about how to stop, like if you're being bullied as a kid, how to stop it.

1:06:33And the whole thing is just maintaining bagel authority. It's basically not reacting to the bullying. If the bully bullies you and you don't react to it, they stop. It's just done. And you can watch it like over and over and over again. It's just like, you're an asshole. Yeah, I'm an asshole. What are you going to do? You're a pansy. Yeah, yeah, I'm a pansy. Like there's no, It's like the Taoists have this great saying about it. It's in a fight between a sword and the ocean, the ocean always wins. What's that mean to you? You have to have something to hit. Oh, yeah. If you attack me and you hit me, I get really excited because it means there's some part of myself I'm still judging.

1:07:22There's some part of myself I'm not allowing. That means that there's more freedom that I get to go and have. right so if i get triggered i'm excited because i'm like there's some something in me that is like that is still tight and solid and and and that that that is not true that's not the ocean it's not the ocean and so for me this is what i would say to somebody who is like yeah what do i do with the the hard person who's like making fun of me for crying i'd say great what's the part of you that's still having a problem with you crying.

1:07:58Because that's where your freedom is.

1:08:03Every judgment, every time we're triggered, every time we get defensive, it is a direct pointer for where we can get more freedom in our life. Which is why kids are so awesome to go back to it because kids will trigger the shit out of you. That's another area. that's another area that's another area hey dad i don't care about all of your music i don't care about all those fans i don't care about all those things that you think make you a good person i've got a new power ranger and you didn't get to play with me yeah exactly like boom that's just your identity just and then you get to find out what you really are because you and i are both at a place where we're like special in society somehow you're famous for this or that or like We have this perch.

1:08:53But you and I know we've interacted with all those people. It's not who any of us are. Nobody's special. Everybody, what they say, puts pants one leg on at a time. But everybody feels angry and sad, and everybody feels angst. It's happening to all of us. I can't remember who it is, some medieval philosopher that talks about from the king in his castle to the peasant in the street. Everybody shits. Everybody shits. Everybody shits. In other news, I've been drinking AG1 every morning for years. Dude, you tried to fastball me that. That was down the plate and I've just Shohei Otani did. I've been drinking AG1 for as long as I can remember.

1:09:36It is the best all-in-one drink that I've ever found and that's why I'm such a fan of them and that's why I partnered with them as well. I have got my mom to start taking it, my dad to start taking it and all of my friends as well. And if I found anything better, I would switch, but I haven't. Why do you keep throwing it at the mic? Stop throwing it at the mic. See? Anyway, over 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole food source ingredients. It's got probiotics and prebiotics. It's also NSF certified, meaning that even Olympians can use it. And in the throat. In the throat. How dare you? I hit the...

1:10:09I hit the... Oh, fucker! Ah! Ah! this isn't even an ad read anymore. It's just a war zone. Oh, okay, okay. Anyway, if you too want something to throw at your friends or a tasty blend of 75 vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and whole food sourced ingredients designed to drink first thing in the morning in one scoop, it's here. Go to drinkag1.com slash modernwisdom for stuff.

1:10:43Thank you. I'm interested in the listening to yourself portion of this, uh, to just harp a little bit more on the difference between irrational instinct being at the mercy of and cultivated intuition. Yeah. Listening to the fleeting thought, the quiet voice of, because those two things can't be the same. the person who is swept away by their anger and blows up and does all of this stuff. Well seen, yeah. Do you get the tension that I'm talking about? Yeah, I get it. Yeah. And again, what I'm really trying to drill into, again, my recency bias with Charlie is the fear. This is my journey. This is my journey right now.

1:11:28My journey right now is I've spent a long time in action. I felt helpless for a lot of my life. I then decided to step into no longer feeling helpless. Yeah. I'm now going from that to, okay, unteachable lessons. You've buttfucked me enough. like i get it i get it i get it like there is more there is deeper to go what's the next journey the next journey is to go into feeling everything as opposed to just acting everything yeah um okay there was a part of being swept away by emotion previously yeah a lot of it was suppression for me but for other people there may be tons and tons and tons of like emotion so irrational instinct to sort of cultivated intuition.

1:12:07Talk to me about that. So it doesn't really matter in the long run. So long run, if you're aware and you're bringing awareness to your actions, you're gonna very, very, very quickly realize that when you are swept away by emotions and you're in your pattern, it's gonna be painful. And in the long run, when you listen to that intuition, it's going to feel right it's going to be more right it's not going to bring all the drama so on some level you can listen to either one of them and do it because you immediately will realize or within a week or two realize that wasn't that like there's a big distinction that being swept away by the emotion didn't actually serve me and listening to that intuition deep intuition did and you'll start to make a distinction in your body.

1:12:59So in the long run, it's like the way I would say it, it's like, if you're working out wrong, if you're working out in a way that hurts your body, your body's going to get hurt and you're going to realize that. And you're going to then change the way that you work out as an example. Right. Um, but that's not like the most efficient, the most efficient thing is to have someone tell you, okay, here's how you work that thing out so that you don't hurt yourself right and so so what i would say is that um if you are triggered or in judgment then it's not the it's not the intuition if it's like a little bit scary then it's far more likely to be the intuition because if it's a little scary it's out of your pattern.

1:13:46Oh, that's cool. That's cool. That's cool. Because it's the path of least resistance is likely to be more reactive, old pattern. Exactly. The one where you go. Yeah. Oh, am I going to do that? Yeah. And then you want to accelerate the curve. You just go do that like immediately. So a lot of times people will say to me, I don't understand how you just have a realization that immediately it's in your life on it immediately act on it and the answer is probably unrewarding but it's exactly that as i act on it so recently in business we were i had this recognition that i was not asking for what i wanted in a way that was clear and so i just announced to the whole business hey here's this way in which i'm not clear in which and what i'm at for the way that i'm asking for what i want i apologize i'm sorry that i did that that it's not fair to any of you.

1:14:39I take full ownership of it and I am going to start doing it more directly. If I mess up, please let me know. Just directly come to me and say, this isn't working and I will start making adjustments. And then I found six different ways to ask for directly what I wanted, how I wanted it, and I did it. And was it scary? Yeah, of course it was scary, but it's like immediately doing the thing and in many reps as I can possibly do it. that's how you change it. Alex Hormozzi's got this idea, which I think is, on the outside, he might not seem like a compatriot of your world, but he very much is in his own flavor.

1:15:23And he has this idea where the life that you want is on the other side of a few hard decisions and the reason that you're not living them is because you're too afraid to have them. And when you have the first one, what he's noticed is, you got to fire someone you got to get rid of somebody and you thought about it and oh my god i can't do it they've been there for six months longer than they should have done two years longer five years longer than they should have done and then finally you do it and you realize oh that was okay and then the next thing you do is like oh what are the conversations can i have that i like that and you've got this sniper rifle out and you turn from like being a hitman into a mass shooter and you're like okay i'm gonna like you're like holy shit it's a machine gun yeah so it's kind of interesting that when the volume of the lesson gets so loud that you can't ignore it, you finally do it, but then you kind of go on this run.

1:16:11Like Shohei Otani, you just have this absolute streak. And that gap that you were saying between what I would call authenticity and that deeper alignment, attunement is Charlie's word for it, I believe, is the action. it's like oh what are those scary actions that i'm not taking i'm gonna go take them and if i just line those up and do those reps that that transition is much shorter and it might you might get rid of a lot of people why let's say one of the pieces of when you get into the attunement is like oh i've been caretaking a lot of people then a whole bunch of people that you stop caretaking might not want to be in the relationship anymore the ones who stay are going to be great is that or if i'm a terrorist and i want to stop blowing people up i'm probably going to have to change friend groups have i told you about my lonely chapter idea thing basically when you go from uh a place that you are to a place that you are, that you don't want to be to a place that you do want to be.

1:17:24You become so developed, you can't resonate with your old set of friends, but not yet sufficiently developed that you've built your new set of friends. And you're sort of stuck in this zone of uncertainty. It tarnishes the process. You're permanently in self-doubt. You don't know where you're going to go. I was thinking about this, I think this was maybe a couple of weeks after we were together, or maybe it was a couple of weeks before, I can't remember. Anyway, Right. This is the other side of the lonely chapter. So I've been talking about this for like three years. I'll read you a little essay.

1:17:54You're a different character in the mind of each person who knows you because their impression of you is made of the bare bones of what they've seen fleshed out by their knowledge of themselves. So my friend Gwinda Bogle, the lonely chapter has another perspective to it. As you grow, you don't fit in with your friends, but this means that they don't fit in with you either. And this causes a reaction from their side too. The hardest part of changing yourself isn't just improving your habits. It's escaping people who keep handing you your old costume. Others don't remember who you were. They enforce it, which is why reinvention often feels so much like trying to break out of a prison that you can't see.

1:18:28Psychologists call this dynamic an object relation. When people interact with you, they're not engaging with you in your full living complexity. They're dealing with the version of you that exists in their head, a simplified character built from fragments of memory and colored by their own projections. In object relations theory, an object isn't a thing, it's the internalized image of another person. We don't just carry people as they are, we carry a mental sketch, which is why if you make a radical change, you'll usually meet resistance. Your transformation destabilizes the representation that the people around you are attached to, so they try to nudge you back into the familiar role that you know.

1:19:01Charles Horton Cooley called this the looking glass self. We come to know ourselves by seeing our own reflection in other people's eyes. If these mirrors keep reflecting the old you, it's hard to step into the new one. In social psychology, self-verification theory shows that people prefer interactions that confirm what they already believe about themselves and about you. And if you disrupt this script, you introduce friction. Yeah. So, all true. And exactly why, especially the places we judge ourselves, is why we feel that pressure from the society. However, it really changes if you're just conscious about it.

1:19:38meaning we all want to evolve. There's like, there's, there's like a migrational path that we all have. We all have this. And there's a lot of human development studies that show that there is a path of development that we want to go down and maybe it gets stopped because of trauma or life events, but we all want to do it. So if you sit down with your group of friends and you say, Hey, this is who I was and this is who, and this is a transition and I would love your support in it. and this is where you can see things that are different, which is what I did with the company. Like, here's my, here's what's going on.

1:20:14What I notice is at least 80 % of the people want to support you in that process. If it's conscious, if you just go and do it, it's different. So that's why I had a question I tried to interrupt you with, which was how important is setting the scene? How important is saying, this is a thing that I've noticed and blah, blah, blah, because the ruthless CEO archetype might just be, I'll just go and do the thing. I'll just say the way it's going to be. you went through this unnecessarily superfluous fucking storytelling thing you know sit everybody down here come lie in my armpit like let me give you the you know yeah how important is the scene setting of this is me i have realized this thing yeah so let me let me answer that as if you were that ceo who just said that to me i'd be like yeah that's exactly how you should handle um explaining the context of your company to your customer i'm not going to hand hold you i'm not going to put you in my arm and elbow you and rub you and nuzzle you and say, yeah, my company sells really great products.

1:21:11Of course you are. You're going to set context everywhere. How do I get somebody on my page is to let them understand how I'm making the decision. As a matter of fact, one of the things I see inside of companies, one of the biggest inefficiencies is that nobody has a shared context. Nobody actually understands all the things that the CEO understands and therefore the CEO feels like they're all alone because they don't actually have the context. Well, from a decision-making perspective, they are, right? Like a CEO is a complex decision-making machine who has a degree of perspective and context that is unreplicable, very difficult to have anywhere else, which is why this amount of perspective and context gives you the uh the ability to aggregate all of this stuff and it sounds to me like you're saying the job of the ceo is to try and make that perspective as widely known as possible especially within his uh top six seven people absolutely i would say that's a bad ceo a good ceo is somebody who's helping is sharing his problems with a group of smart people making a decision with them and i assume the same is true in a relationship absolutely yeah so So most relationship death comes from not sharing context.

1:22:35So the first thing I would say is it's very efficient to share the context. You don't have to do it. It's just super efficient. A lot less turmoil, a lot less clunk. I see where they're coming from. Say again? I understand their motivation. Yeah. They're my friend. I want to support them in their journey. Yeah. And I also feel that same call in me somewhere. Somewhere I feel that same call in me. Like, even if I'm making fun of you for having the emotion, even that reaction tells you that there's something that - It's the judging again. Yeah, exactly. They're judging themselves. And so you know that it's in there in them.

1:23:17So give them the opportunity, open up the door for them as well by sharing your own vulnerability. And again, can't do that without an open heart. Close your heart down and you're not gonna share the context. close your heart down, you're not going to bring your friends along for the ride. Let me give you an example. I already told Charlie this story. We filmed this vlog, tracking the New York and Toronto shows that we did a couple of weeks ago, and it was beautiful. I hear they're going really well, man. Congratulations, man. Thank you. Yeah, you've selfishly decided to put a retreat on, so you can't hang out with me this Saturday, but it's fine.

1:23:53We can do it again sometime. Anyway, Max, he met videographer, was, you know, turned this edit around in, it was a week of footage turned into an hour of law. And it's beautiful. I fucking loved it. And I was like, I'm so proud. And it's real, it's a real different angle on the way that everything looks. Anyway, I got all excited about it. There was an error on the upload. It was up for 10 minutes, came back down. That's like cancerous to reach because all the notifications have got triggered. And then this thing happens and it pulls back down and people that were watching it can't watch it. And then they're not going to watch it again.

1:24:20And in between one of the episodes earlier this week, I come out and I'm like, oh, has everything gone up okay on the thing as I'm going to the bathroom? And they were like, oh yeah, there was a little bit of an error. And immediately my response was, well, what happened? Here's the process. We need to make sure that the thing, I'm so frustrated. And I realized a little bit later when I was talking to Charlie that what I should have done is gone,

1:24:47ow. I really loved that thing and I really wanted other people to love it too and I thought it was really special and maybe they're not going to get to see it in the same way ow like I got my hopes up I should have said that I didn't we must make sure who's the process we got to get the thumbnail with the title so that was a that was very much you ventriloquizing me from wherever the fuck you are I would say both are really important ow that sucks so people can see you so like so so so that the team can be like oh he's human and i empathize and yeah it sucks for me too and we can be human in this together and how do we make sure how the fuck do we make sure this doesn't happen again because that anger that you feel is a boundary there's a boundary there of like oh hey like if we're going to do this like how do we make sure we're doing it right but i think both are really critical and and that i think that is the integration that you're talking about from getting from one place to the other it's like there's a um because there's some fear in the system then it's like i either should be open hearted or i should be get shit done and ruthless and it's like they're not mutually exclusive i can be open hearted and be very clear about my vision and what i want to do and how i want to be and the reach that I want to have.

1:26:16Of course, like how could I not? Think about it like a mom, a mom open-hearted or dad in this case, open-hearted to their son, open-hearted, ruthless. He was ruthless. I am going to do this 15 minutes from my house. I'm going to do, I'm not going to tour. It was all ruthless and deeply open-hearted for his son. And it's both. And the models that we're looking for are the people who do both. And we just for a while in the journey get confused that it's one or the other. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You've mentioned your business too many times for me to not do this. I'm going to have an intervention with you.

1:26:58You've done enough to me, so I'm going to put the shoe on the other fucking foot for a second. Okay. Have you spoken to your team after the call that me and my YouTube guy had? Yeah, man, we are so grateful. Did you listen to a recording or did they give you a full breakdown? Did they talk to you about what I want as your new vertical for content? We've already recorded two. How did they go? We recorded three. That tells you how it went. Two of them are good. Two of them, I think, are great. One of them was the golf one that I think you recommended. Yeah, that was actually really cool. And then there was one.

1:27:29So context for everybody listening. You wanted me to do reaction videos too. I'll give context to your context. Okay, great. I had a conversation with Mike Isretel about three or four years ago. Who was on that call? Was it Dean?

1:27:45Maybe it was just me. Anyway, Mike is probably the fastest growing channel in all of health and fitness, has been for the last three or four years. I mentioned it on the call with your guys. He's like the big guy bald. Yeah. And you did like a workout thing with him. I've done a number of those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. I know who you're talking about. We're friends. He's been on the show a bunch. The first time he came on, he was like, the YouTube channel's kind of floundering a bit. There were maybe a million subs, a little bit less. What do you think that we should do? and i'm by no means like some fucking super master at youtube but especially if someone's super talented and they're just missing the unlock yeah i was like okay here's a bunch of things from then until now they've gained three million subs in like three years so like real vertical growth and the guy's the same guy he's been in the fitness industry for forever yeah i was like huh that was cool like that was there was something there and we became really good friends and he uh very flatteringly attributes at least some of the growth to some of the shit that we got them although it's all his talent it's largely that um and it's just the same format for you i'm sorry it's the same format and the reason i'm sorry is that one of your fundamental fears is like an increase in exposure yeah uh for you yeah not for the admission um but i know for a fact that if you start to do master coach critiques or master coach assesses or master coach whatever's it will it will do to youtube something that we haven't seen for quite a while like i'm confident that that's going to happen you've got the team you've got the way that it's filmed you've got the edit style you've got as well that mike didn't at the time the roadmap because you can just go i'm just going to do the emotion equivalent of what he did for exercise science and it is i'm i'm usually not wrong okay so i so i was very resistant i was like i knew you were i said i was like he's gonna fucking hate it and i can't wait for him to hate it it's so good because i get to turn it around after he's bitched me for an entire week yeah yeah yeah fuck you joe hudson he uh yeah so uh we you know we have a principal in our company that's everything's in iteration so i was sitting there going this is oh i don't want to do this and my team was like everything's in iteration.

1:29:56Sit your butt down. Because for us, like our principles are more important than any one person's decision. Like this is, this is how we operate, including mine. Yeah, exactly. And so they just put stuff in front of me and, and looked at, looked at, first of all, we all decided Tara would be far better at reaction videos because she's so much more expressive than I am. But there was one that was like a reality television show. And my reaction was, well, oh god why does anybody watch this that's punking the game that one didn't work that one didn't work but there was there's a couple that i thought were just like amazing to do actually i i again was i was like well i was wrong that was amazing you had fun i had fun i enjoyed it unreal yeah so i think it's really critical that we get you know a list of things that i can do that would that's that are going to feel good but there's some that are just i'm not going to i can't do like pop culture commentary well you're gonna learn you know the the uh bucket of what is and isn't appropriate and i'm sure that mike has been uh his scott the video guy his guy rp will have put videos in front of him and he's like ah no and they probably never made the channel right or they did and they didn't perform or whatever yeah um and over time the curation in the same way for that vertical of content the same way as my guest selection is paramount it's the most important thing the most important thing for you guys is what's the video like what is it or the incident or whatever that i'm responding to what is that because that's the well from which you're drawing all of this stuff out yeah and as they say in the uk you can't polish a turd right um uh and some of them may not be turds but you're just a incompatible turd with that turd my the one that i had the most fun with was a fight scene from a of comedy from i think it was like the early arts called uh called uh this is 40 and i had the you know judd apatow who was the guy that made it he was sat in that seat yesterday oh wow yep yeah yep yep so so yeah so i break down that fight scene and i'm like and it was so fun i'm so fired up for you to do this yeah thank you thank you for that yeah no no no i think title and thumb keep it master coach something master coach critiques master coach assesses master coach reacts whatever it is yeah super simple this is 40 fight scene like scott schifler's uh golf speech like whatever it might be like you have an infinite amount of growth like literally a vertical amount of growth to do from that that speeches is phenomenal do you want to give a little like summary for the yeah i don't know what we're talking yeah so it's this i i'm not a golf follower but this is the the preeminent golf guy now like just amazing apparently and he basically talks about winning and how the feeling of winning lasts about two minutes and then then he literally goes and then you guys are just asking me he's gonna say he's talking to a bunch of reporters you all are just asking me like how am i going to do on the next one so like it's gone like all this winning doesn't mean anything but what he says which is the secret of it all.

1:33:07And he says it like three or four times. He just keeps on saying, I'm just the guy who loves to practice. I'm just the guy who loves to practice. And that is what makes him so successful is that he loves the doing of it, not the reward of it. And so many people are sitting in their rooms right now, listening to this or doing something and going, I want the reward of fame. I want the reward of money. I want the reward of a great girlfriend i want the reward of and it will last two minutes you gotta love the thing that you're doing if you're gonna actually have the success and maintain it right you love having conversations with people and i i'm actually i when i leave here i'm gonna talk to a a woman at uta who runs the the literary department there and we're talking about a book and and she asked me she's like well what do you want from the book and i said i won't do anything for money that i wouldn't do for free the best story i've learned from you around that i mean this need this meme needs to go so much wider than it has with you just like flicking it onto the floor like you're tossing like a bit of offal into the bin or something.

1:34:24Your daughter came to you and said, I've got my first billion dollar idea. And you said, oh, wow, it's an idea that you can sell for a billion dollars. She says, no, no, no. It's an idea that I wouldn't give away if someone offered me a billion dollars. Fucking yes. Money. Such money. And that's what you're talking about. That's what I'm talking about. We're going to talk about the book before you leave as well. Don't worry. I've got things that I need to say. James Clear, it doesn't make sense to continue wanting something if you're not willing to do what it takes to get it. If you want to live the lifestyle, then release yourself from the desire to crave the result, but not the process is to guarantee disappointment.

1:34:58To crave the result, but not the process is to guarantee disappointment. It doesn't make sense to continue wanting something if you're not willing to do what it takes to get it. I want fame. Fame sounds great. I want to be a world touring musician. Okay. Do you want to spend 10 years in your bedroom playing guitar? Because like that, that is the lifestyle that you need in order to be able to get the life. Yeah. The only thing I would add is there is a great benefit to just being in the want, but not the want. So let's say I want to be famous, right?

1:35:38If I just feel the feeling of wanting, even I take the fame out of it, but I just feel that feeling of wanting, there's great benefit to that. Often what's happening is that we feel the want and then we immediately stop that feeling of wanting and go into, I should do this, I should do this, I should do this, I should do this, I should do this. We're not actually spending time in that feeling of wanting. And if you spend time in the feeling of wanting, there is often a massive unlock that occurs. So you want a whole bunch of attention. You want to be liked by people. But what happens is you go, I want to be liked by somebody.

1:36:18You have the thought, maybe you don't even fully admit that you've had the thought to yourself. And then you go, I need to do this. I need to do this. I need to, I should have done this. I should have done this. I shouldn't have done this, which is basically avoiding the feeling of wanting. But if you actually go, oh, I want that. And I'm going to stop everything and fully feel what it is to really want somebody's attention there is a like a massive freedom that can be found in that because what you find is that want when it's unresisted is a lot like love it's a lot like love

1:36:52why or how what was it instead of that just see what it's like like think of something that you want like want your girlfriend to blah blah blah or your mom or blah blah blah and then just feel the wanting without needing anything to be different and like look your system relaxes and opens and you mentioned uh the similarity between telling a company the motivation and the context for why something is about to happen and the importance in relationship yeah this is from you every relationship fight boils down to three things number one i don't feel seen number two i'm trying to change you number three i need to defend myself shift any one of those and the fight will shift too yeah yeah so the the way i see most fights is i i have a theory called the shame hot potato which is basically i don't feel good about myself so i'm gonna throw shame at you and now i don't feel good about myself so i'm gonna throw shame at you and then we're just like passing the shame back and forth this person feels like they're always defending themselves This person feels like they're always defending themselves.

1:38:03But this defense feels like an attack to this person, and this defense feels like an attack to this person. So it's like, you never do the dishes. I am ashamed that I can't keep up with the housework and that I'm keeping score. You don't do the dishes. I feel like I'm defending myself. Look at all the things that I've done. Why aren't you? I feel like you attacked me for not doing the dishes. and back and forth it just goes like that. And so this person's response is, well, I work all day and you only work 35 hours a week. Oh, I don't work enough. I've been attacked. I'm ashamed. And off it goes.

1:38:43And so every single one of those things that you said there, that you read there are an expression of that cycle that's going on. I really see that you need more help in the house and you feel overwhelmed. I don't want you to feel overwhelmed. Fight's gone. That's the being seen part. Oh, you're right. I don't do the dishes. Fight's gone. I don't need to defend myself. So every single thing is just basically unlocking that shame hot potato that's going, which is basically people feeling unloved for who they are and not being able to love themselves for who they are. I just love the phrase that it's like, if you're trying to change somebody, you're not loving them.

1:39:28you're basically saying you need to be different to get my love. And, and that usually typically means for the, for yourself, if you're trying to change somebody is that you're trying to also, there's also some part of yourself that you're not loving. Why?

1:39:49Let's say I, early in the relationship, Tara was very big and I would get embarrassed and it was, not about Tara being big it was about me trying to be seen as normal being fit in everywhere not stand out it has nothing to do with her so that part of her that I'm changing is like the part of me wanting attention that I wasn't allowing myself to feel or have so typically that's the thing and it's and it's also just like that old phrase my mom actually had this on needlepoint in the wall i don't know like she needlepointed this phrase it's just something that happened with american moms in the 70s apparently and um it said uh trying to move a mountain or change a man i'll move a mountain it's easier so it's also just like it just hurts a relationship because the person will resist yeah people don't respond well to being told you need to change exactly including ourselves and yet we do it to ourselves all the time talk to me about that i should work out more i should stop smoking i should be more truthful i should run a bigger business i should be famous like all those things are the things that you can look back on a decade and haven't changed the more we're forcing ourselves to change the less that change happens where does change come from if not from motivating ourselves the same place it comes from when a little kid goes from crawling to walking it's our wants it's our it's it's like being able to listen to and fully feel the want that is in our world like like wants are far more of more efficient fuel than shoulds shoulds is a very dirty fuel it doesn't work very well it's meant to kind of stop things you know shame and shoulds are like they're meant to stop behaviors and we use them to motivate ourselves but they don't work very well whereas wants and desire and natural motivation that just burns you know it's that golf guy i love to practice he has a want to practice he wants to play golf that's the thing he like kept his love for playing golf that's a more efficient fuel then I should play golf every day if you want to like screw up how many artists do you know who have done this that they're loving their art, they're doing great they get a job they start having to do their art and they're like I should do my art and then their love for their art goes away

1:42:35anything that you tell yourself you should do the love of it just starts going away how do you protect yourself because there are things that um the difference between knowing this is the next area for growth and progress that i could put myself into yeah uh that is a zone of proximal development it's not what i'm doing right now i don't even know if i want to do this thing because it's kind of new it's on the you know outside of the orbit of what i've done yeah uh how do you know the difference between that and this tyrannical should you know this is like part of the journey it's a good part of progress it's a it can be the journey to the next want yeah the crazy thing is that oftentimes even inside of a should you can look and find the want in it right so i should go to the gym well what's the want well the want is to feel healthy the one is to be skinny the want there's like some want behind it.

1:43:33Okay. You can even take that to the next level. What makes you want to be skinny is, oh, I want to be attractive. I want to be loved. Okay, cool. There's actually a real want there. You can find the want that's beneath that should. And then you have a lot more options. Okay. So let's just say it's, I want to feel good. Well, going to the gym is one way to feel good. Playing pickleball is another way to feel good. Hiking a mountain, being in nature is another way to feel good. Being with friends is another way to feel good. So all of a sudden I have these options that open up. And typically when we're in a should, it's a very narrow doorway.

1:44:08So for instance, when I was trying to go from not working out to working out, instead of saying I should go to the gym, I said, what are 20 things that I really want to experiment with as far as working out goes? And I want to see what pickleball is like. I want to see what salsa dancing is like. And then I did all those 20 things inside of a month. And then I found out, wow, I really like pickleball. I like, I just, I don't need to be motivated. I don't, I just, I'm calling people, Hey, want to play pickleball? Oh, cool. Now I'm working out and I'm doing something I want to do. So it's just finding the want that's in there and then following it rather than listening to the voice in the head, say should, and then agreeing with it because then you're forcing yourself and we don't respond well when people are trying to change us, including us.

1:44:57So much of today's world is focused on efficiency and optimization, but efficiency without awareness is just a faster way to burn out. Yeah, that's coming from Silicon Valley. So what I notice is that people are interested in getting, first of all, efficiency typically in our society in work means faster. It doesn't mean efficient. So typically, like if I have a car, there's a car behind us, the Ferrari. That's not an efficient car. nobody would call that an efficient car but it's very fast car so efficiency i think is is better is more about how much energy you're putting into it to get it done than it is about how quickly you're getting it done but we really think about it as far as speed goes and so if we are trying to become quite quicker at everything right that that idea of efficiency without knowing why that's the case, then you're just going to burn out.

1:45:59So I'm talking to a CEO yesterday who's interested in having me coach him. And we were having the discussion about how it's one fire to the next fire to the next fire to the next fire and how all this has to get done really quickly. And so we spent some time to talk about hiring people and how if he hired four great people, how many fires would be left? What makes you not do it? Well, because I have to get this stuff done quickly. I have to be efficient about making sure that we land this contract, we do this thing. I'm like, so you're ignoring the thing that makes you more efficient for the immediate efficiency.

1:46:36And that's what I mean. And he's going to burn out that way. Whereas if he took, looks at the bigger efficiency of hiring those people. And so we're just sitting there, basically just getting dopamine fixes, sent the email, sent the email, sent the email, sent the email. We're not thinking about, can I send that email? So I never have to send another email on that topic again can i do this task in such a way that i don't have to do 10 more steps i only have to do five and i think that's the difference between mastery and and and like competence and mastery competence is i can get it done effectively mastery is i can get it done with very little effort effectively what are the misconceptions people have about overwhelm I feel like that's a pretty endemic sensation.

1:47:24Yeah. A lot of people. Typically, it just means emotions haven't moved. Oftentimes, it also means that there's something that you know needs to be done that you're not doing. And those are typically the two things that create that level of overwhelm. And we think it's because there's so much going on. Oh my gosh, I got this going on and this going on and this going on. But what's typically happening is I'm really excited. I'm not allowing myself to feel it. I'm really scared. I'm not allowing myself to feel it. I'm really angry. I'm not allowing myself to feel it. And so we're cycling quick. Our minds are cycling quicker and quicker and quicker as we discussed before.

1:47:59And then on top of that, there's things that I know I should be doing that I'm not doing. And that doesn't mean that could be, I know I should be resting. I know I should be having that hard conversation. I know I should be firing that person. It doesn't mean always like, I know I should be doing the thing that my voice in my head is saying, you should do this. You should do this. You should do this. is that why people always feel like they never have enough time overwhelm seems to create that as a symptom of lack of time which is kind of the weirdest thing in the world because we always have the exact amount of time i was typically i was just i was having this realization yesterday and it kind of flipped me out my life has gotten really busy recently and and then there was a um a moment where i had like three days where something canceled and so I had free time and I found myself doing stuff that I haven't done in months because I and I was like why am I doing this like what why am I like I got so busy that there was things that I wasn't doing and now I'm realizing I'm doing them but they're not necessary because for the last three months I didn't do them and everything worked out just fine and so there's this weird phenomenon that happens which is when we have what we think is a compression of time it just requires you to do the most important things if you're going to be effective.

1:49:19And so the other way to look at the world is to say, I'm just going to do the most important things that all the time, I'm not going to do the little stuff. So typically what we're doing is we're saying, I don't want chaos to reign in my life. So I'm going to do a whole bunch of things, get a lot of dopamine hits of doing those little things so that I don't have to feel that chaos. But if you're okay feeling the chaos, then you can constantly just focus on doing the most important thing and one of the things that i've noticed of like super hyper successful ceos is that they are really good at focusing on the two or three most important things and letting chaos reign everywhere else if necessary they know that's the thing that if that domino falls everything else is taken care of i'm going to spend almost all my time pushing on that domino

1:50:07i suppose that's a skill to be able to discern it's a skill to discern it it's a skill to be able to be okay with the chaos. There's a book called The One Thing, and he talks about this pretty well. He talks about if you're going to focus on the one thing, then you have to be okay because some part of your world's going to go into chaos. And what I notice is when people can't handle the chaos, they can't focus on the one thing. Joe Hudson, ladies and gentlemen. Joe, you're great. You're so fantastic. I'm a, let's say, in trepidation for what the next few years is going to look like for you. From book to YouTube, to the courses, to everything else.

1:50:49I'd strap in if it was you. I think you scared me the other day on that one. You got me really good was you were talking about what it's like for you as fame has increased and how the Amazon truck guy will come out and be like, great, great podcast. He's like, but you said to me, in your world though, So the Amazon truck guy is going to jump out and say, hey, can you coach me real quick? Yeah. No one comes up to me expecting anything other than just like, dude, love that episode with Charlie recently. Oh, so good to see you talking to Huberman again or whatever. Whereas with you, it's going to be like, I have this probably me and my girlfriend.

1:51:25I got this day that ancestral trauma. Oh my God, Charlie, please go and start praying in front of you. Well, look, you know, I couldn't, one of the very good counter signals that you put out as a part of the time that I've worked with you and everything else is like a, I am not your guru type sort of energy. For sure. And I think that's very important because there are a number of people who are without the legitimacy of you claiming to have it. So to have the legitimacy of you claiming not to have it, I think is good when it comes to the bullseye of focused on the mission, not on the person. Also super, it just doesn't work the other way.

1:52:08Meaning like if the person isn't their own authority, it doesn't work. Like you can't, we can't, we can for a little while, but it doesn't sustain to like give your authority to somebody else. And so if someone's trying to take your, trying to be your authority, it's a really, really, really good sign not to trust them. Art of accomplishment, YouTube, podcast, courses, everything else. Thank you. Fuck you, Joe Hudson on Twitter. F-U-Joe Hudson. I appreciate you, man. Until next time. Pleasure. Pleasure. I get asked all the time for book suggestions. People want to get into reading fiction or nonfiction or real-life stories, and that's why I made a list of 100 of the most interesting and impactful books that I've ever read.

1:52:54These are the most life-changing reads that I've ever found, and there's descriptions about why I like them and links to go and buy them, and it's completely free, and you can get it right now by going to chriswillx.com slash books. That's chriswillx.com slash books. Thank you.