#642 - Bill Perkins - Why You Should Spend All Of Your Money Before You Die

26:50And that's a natural, like I tell people it's like relax, relax. It's a natural, like it's relax. It's your first time back into humanity. You know, it's your first time into, you know, being you. You know, you let that person die 20 years ago, 10 years ago, right? And so I think that that habituation and that focus takes away from the rest of their their their their corpus, right, the rest of their body. They're I'm talking about their holistic body, right? And so that atrophy is real and it takes a while to build it back up and it's painful, right? Like, when you see people on New Year's come in to the gym, they're not bullshitting.

27:35They really want to do it, right? They got the motivation they want to do it. It's just fucking painful Whereas for you, you go back into gym. This is my routine buddy. Here we go, you know I'm used to the pain. I'm used to the feeling like the gains etc. They don't see the gains They just feel frustration sweat and pain feel like this shit sucks And that's what it's like for like successful rich people. Well, it's like okay. Let's go be human well It hurts The next principle is invest in experiences early and one of my favorite quotes from the book, delaying gratification in the extreme means no gratification.

28:16When they talk about investing, they talk about the power compound interest.

28:23If you put the money in the bank in 10 years, you're going to have, let's say, double your money, $20 ,000. Right? And okay, now you have $20 ,000 and that's meant for you to do something with, right? Maybe some of its pay bills, but some of its ski trips or travel or birthday presents or charity or whatever it is of the numerous things you can do with the money. People, and that's okay if you feel like not having those experiences now is worth more experiences later in your life, right? But there's a, and that's what the interest does, right? It pays out and then you're able to have more experiences and in theory you'll have more fulfillment later in life, right?

29:08By saving those experience dollars and letting them grow. But there's also something interesting, fun, and wonderful about experiences and I call it the memory dividend. You don't just get pleasure from when you have the experience, right? say you weren't gonna go fishing with the what the fellas and It's great you went fishing, but you also have a Paws of experience when you recall that fishing experience. It's great hanging on my friends We caught up I caught the fish. There was one big one that got away Of course, there's the big one got away story. You'll probably tell the big one got away story a Thousand times right never met a fisherman went out of big one that got away story, right?

29:51And so, and over those years, that is going to provide you little pieces of fulfillment as well. And that's called the memory dividend. So the same way you get interest in the bank that's paid quarterly, right? You get a memory dividend that provides you fulfillment. And each time you recall and discuss that story. And it compounds, right? Like you might go out to dinner with someone new and they're a fisherman or they're okay hearing your fish story. And you tell the story and you guys bond over the story and this is the fishing hole, etc. That creates a new experience that will then also have its own memory, and then it's associated with it.

30:30Warren Buffett famously says, when it comes to investing, start early, start early, start early to take advantage of the compounding interest of money, right? Money compounding over time. And I say the same thing with experiences, start early, start early, start early to take advantage of the compounding memory dividend. And it's also a tool to help you decide where should I save this money and have two ski trips 10 years from now? Or should I take one ski trip now and have all these associated memory dividends and will that be a more fulfilling thing? Do the two strategies of market investment and memory investment not conflict with each other though, that we need to, the power of compounding is such a powerful tool financially that pushing for experiences early can curtail great gains financially down the line.

31:31Is that not an issue? Yeah, it could be. I mean, it depends on the interest rate, right? And how, how, what experience we're talking about and how powerful. Like I wouldn't miss my like daughter's wedding, right? For five other people's weddings down the road. That's a fantastic return, right? Five weddings to one in 10 years. You know, so like it depends on the experience, how is your replaceable, you know, compounding, and also it depends on your age, right? Like I talk about, you know, your personal interest rate. I'm 80, let's say I'm 80. And you're like, hey, I can put this money in the bank and it's this fantastic return.

32:12And you take it out 10 years from now and you'll be able to do all the stuff. And I'm just like, eat a bag of bleep. You know what I mean? Like, no shot, no fucking way. You know, the discount rate on my time, my own interest rate, the discount rate on me delaying gratification is going to infinity. Right? Like the day before you die, your interest rate is infinity. There's no delaying gratification. The next step is to grave. So you're not like that. There is no day after tomorrow. So you're going to spend all your resources, everything you got, you're going to lay it on the field right now this day.

32:55And so if you just run this iteration, one day before I die, two days before I die, three days before you die. So you can clearly see that there is this push pull between, yes, I want certain things. I should delay gratification. I need to delay gratification for survival because that's ultimate right. I don't want to die. But after that, it's where do I sprinkle the activities and where do they belong? And there are certain activities now that I would pay an inordinate sum of money to get certain experiences that I gave up when I was saving that I turned down for when I was saving when I was in my 20s.

33:34Well, like my friend borrowed money from a loan shark. I talk about that Jason Rufo and he went back packing through Europe in his 20s. And I would be like, how many millions would I pay to have taken that trip right now to go back in time? Even if people say, well, it's easy because you have millions right now. I would just say I would, there's a significant percentage of my net worth that would be outsized, that would give up to go back and not make that. And be in the pocket of a loan shark. Yeah, be in the pocket of a loan shark, pay the exorbitant interest rate, work my butt off or whatever so that I would have all those memory dividends and that experience and those friends and that meaning and that adventure that belonged in that time period of my life.

34:20And it's not, you know, I don't have like a deliberate answer like, yes, you should do this. People like, what should I do this? I'm like, this is for you to decide. This is just a framework for you to think about it. Another interesting reality I suppose about Warren Buffett is that even though he's a super billionaire, very few people, if given the choice, would swap places with him. Well, why? Because he doesn't have as much time as you do to spend that money. So it's not about the money. It's not about the money. It can't be about the money because if it was just about the money You would exchange places with the super rich guy regardless of his age.

34:58Right. We got on board and in the beginning of the book It's like Life is about fulfillment. It's not about the money the money is a tool to drive fulfillment Right, yes, we'll take more money, right? We'll convert that into more fulfillment But we're all about fulfillment and if we're talking about Warren Buffett It's got X years left. It doesn't look like that much. It doesn't have that many more opportunities for fulfillment. Right? If you got put into the body of Warren Buffett, where is you, the listener now, healthy, wise, doing all the cold plunges and whatever you're doing, right? Lifting weights, making sure you have enough muscle mass.

35:34You have many, many, many more opportunities for fulfillment and you're going to have a high fulfillment score. You'll take. I think a lot of people like I'll take zero dollars in being being warm buffet Which is which is the truth right over friend Alex who said I Know for a fact that all of the wealth I'll accumulate between now and in 20 years time in 20 years time I would give to be right back in this place with this health and this body and all of the time that's left ahead of me Which means that right now is more important than all of the wealth I will generate over the next two decades in my life Right?

36:10He could take that now to the memory dividend and experiences and be like, all right, well, what experiences belong right now that you can't have in 20 years? Because what he's basically saying is that in 20 years time, okay, there are certain activities, certain experiences. My attitude will change. My aptitude will change. My lung capacity will change. There are certain activities that belong right now that I need to be doing right now. So you should take that line of thinking to like, okay, what do I do right now? These next two years, this next year, this next month. What am I on autopilot?

36:43Like, what am I missing? Let me get out my sheet. Okay. Trips, entertainment, love life, family, whatever. He can, he can categorize him any kind of way. And be like, okay, zero to three years from now. What, what belongs right now? Because I already already have the concept in my head that I'm going to be dying to be back here. So if I can't come back, I need to make sure I get everything out of this time period that I possibly can. Dive with zero. Aim to dive with zero. Yeah, this is one of the axumes of the book. It just goes, it's kind of logical that if you're expending hours of your life, that you can be doing anything, right?

37:25You could be backpacking, panhandling through Europe. You can be a volunteer or you can do whatever. But if you're spending hours of your life for money, right? that then converts into experiences that you may have, right? Travel, charity, whatever. If you go to work and exchange hours of your life for money that you never use, you're de facto wasting your life, right? You're not going to go spend hours and hours rolling a ski ball. I mean, you might enjoy some, there's some fun and it's going to ski balls, but you're not doing it to accumulate tickets. Like I got to get these tickets. I got to get these tickets and then not go get the silly prize, right?

38:11Use all your tickets. No cash value on the way out, right? Chucky cheese tokens I like to use, but not that many Chucky cheeses in the world. So these, you know, a rational person would be like, okay, the hour is in my life that I exchange, that I give up, the only thing that I have, an exchange for money. I will use all that resource so that I'd not waste my life. Right. It's just it's just suboptimal. Consumption smoothing is a term that I'd never heard of before and Seems like something that should be taught to 10 -year -olds to me. Yeah for the people that aren't familiar with it. What's consumption smoothing?

38:52Well, it's you know There is the current you for for a lot of people. There's a current poor you young you, right? that you're young and you're poor and you're future rich or you're right you're going to make more money you're gonna get successful you're gonna have a promotion you're gonna et cetera and you know when I was younger I kind of had it backwards for for some time and then I went crazy even went the other way but I was like making no money driving a limo at night and saving money just saving like I have a thousand dollars I have X Y and Z and I had this miracle savings that I had saved up and what I was really doing was I was borrowing from my future, I was borrowing from my poor self to give to my future richer self.

39:38So Bill Perkins now is looking at Bill Perkins 21 and be like, you sh -f -frickened idiot. I can - I don't care about $1 ,000. See, I don't even - I recognize it. You know what I mean? You know, it's like it means - it means nothing. Like you should have went out on that date or you should have went out on that trip or you should have went to Florida or you know backpacking for at least a week or whatever. You should have been having an adventure and I would have those memories and I'd be telling interesting stories on this podcast, except now I'm an uninteresting guy telling boring stories because you I put up a thousand dollars.

40:17Yeah, I tried to save a thousand dollars. Fucking pissed at that guy, I'm so pissed. And so consumption smoothing allows you to borrow from your richer self to finance your poorer self and vice versa. How should someone tactically get into the mode of applying consumption smoothing? I always advise like, you know, you're getting into like financial planning, right? And you should have a financial planner or at least have a spreadsheet or at least go through it, right? But you're going to think about like where is the area you're going to consume the most and have the most experiences in your life and where do they fit?

41:02And you know, one of the things people do is like they oversight for retirement, right? They're like, I'm going to need all this money for retirement. And I mean, I'm sure everybody's like, well, this exception, they'll put out the exception case, but by and large, the data is just overwhelming. Old people don't spend money. Their network just keeps growing, right? They just don't even adjusting for healthcare costs and people are healthcare and yada yada right first of all This insurance products etc. But we even went out insurance products and all that that net worth just keeps growing and I get asked why does it happen?

41:35I was like because it can't spend the money they can not Their aptitude has changed. They don't like doing the same things their bodies have changed They have the inability to do the thing and it's not even if they can it's not enjoyable like their joints hurt their back hurts. Yeah, renting a Ferrari to go to skydiving when you're 45 versus renting a Ferrari to go to skydiving when you're 75 are two very different experiences. Yeah, even things that you like to do, like I mentioned Greg Wiley in the book, a friend of mine that likes to go skiing. And he used to ski, go skiing, and you'd have seven runs, or eight runs a day.

42:16That was two or three. You start to buy them, right? doesn't mean any of those love skiing. It's just not getting as much of you set up a ski trip. So that turns into less passes on the mountain. So he'll spend less money skiing. So a lot of people think their lives when their retire is gonna look like a carnival commercial, right? It just looks like it's freaking chaos, right? They're going down slides or eating, there's photos are running around, they're traveling, whatever. And a lot of it's like sitting around talking with your friends and visiting grandparents and your grandchildren in the ski.

42:48all very inexpensive. Yeah, inexpensive low dollar amounts. Like, I don't want to be bothered. I'm going to sit and watch reruns a jeopardy, like leaning alone type of things, right? And the other super interesting thing that I found when looking or thinking about consumption -smoothing is most people's earning capacity is going to steadily increase and sometimes rapidly increase right over the next two, three, four decades of their life. Everybody that's listening to this will probably be earning way more money in 10 years time than they are right now. Right. And way more money in 20 years time than they are right now.

43:23You probably have a lot of hustle girls and hustle girls out there like just grinding and out making just going to be printing presses for their whole life. But they're a capacity to spend that money and even their aptitude or willingness to go and consume that money is going to go down over time. It's so bizarre. I really think that the consumption smoothing element of this, realizing that your earning potentially is going to increase and that you can, before we started about the fact that your identity lags reality by one to two years, I think that your spending habits lag your current net worth by maybe even longer than that.

44:04And you're spending frugally because that feels like the good thing to do because maybe you came from a working class background because generally having a safety net makes you feel good. So you spend frugally based on where you're earning and on top of that where you see yourself as earning is lagging behind. And then on top of all of that, if you apply consumption smoothing, you should actually be projecting out ahead where your spending practices are at to think, okay, well, let's say that in five years' time, I'm going to be earning 30 % more per year, let's say. Well, I mean, if I run that forward, I've actually got way more disposable income.

44:50And yet there are all of these different layers that we have that protect us from getting anywhere close to enjoying the money that we earn. If you go out and talk to financial planners, wealth managers, etc., and you look at the data, people weigh over estimate how much they're going to be spending in retirement. What they're going to be doing. It's just amazing. And I think it's fear -based. You know, a lot of it's fear -based, like China. Uncertainty. Yeah, a lot of uncertainty. But the data is just overwhelming. They can't spend it. What about the people that say that they love working? It's okay to work.

45:28I always say, like keep working. Just make sure you don't waste your life and you utilize the fruits of your labor, right? That balance. And I always get the heroin addict argument. I don't have a problem with heroin. You got a problem with my heroin. You didn't mean like, I love working. I'm just like, okay, listen, out of the almost near infinite things you can be doing with your time here on the planet, activities, choices, experiences. You think you happen stance just certain, dipitously hit number one at the right ratio. So you hit the right thing at the right frequency. It's, I just don't believe it.

46:11What do you think about the sort of Sigma grind mindset trend that we're seeing at the moment. So it's got a number of different iterations, but the one that I'm thinking about is this kind of monk mode, guys in their 20s, get your head down, reject family life, reject distractions, any kind of hedonism really, broadly a lot of adventures as well, accumulate wealth as much as you can. I know exactly, it sounds like a version of fire. I like fire because fire is financial independence for tire early for people who don't know that. That's a whole reject materialism, get in touch with enough, what's enough for you.

46:59Seve as much as you can and then retire and live life. My biggest problem with that is it's fucking go to jail for money. That this monk is another version of Go to jail for fucking money. Right. And so for me, there are people out there who like you can pay him $5 million to do a 10 year stint in Singsing. I'm not one of them. But Singsing. It's a prison. Rawway State Prison, whatever. You know, Rikers is not, you know, open. But like, I'm not, you know, the guys who go to prison for 10 years, wrongly accused or 15 years or 20 years when they come out, they'll not allow. Well, thank God I got wrongly accused, because now I got $7 million.

47:41That's never their story, right? They're still crying in tears and happy their freedom. It helps, yes, but they would gladly give you that money back and get that time back. And so, you know, this reject friends, reject family, reject all hedonism, reject that aware, and then there's some promise land later in the future as some version of let's go to jail for a certain amount of time and then we're going to get a reward. And yes, I believe in delayed gratification and yes, I do believe in some work, but I think those schemes are way out of balance, way out of whack. The problem that we have is we know that delayed gratification is a useful skill for people to have, to be able to put off eating the cookie, succumbing to the distraction in order to be able to focus on the thing that you're doing now, it feels to me maybe like delayed gratification in the micro is useful and delayed gratification in the macro gets significantly less useful.

48:48Yeah, I think like you have to look at your life as a complete system from cradle to grave and then you break it down, right? Like the 20 year old single you is going to die and you'll get married and whatever. Remember, the father, young children, I was actually growing and getting stronger and now I'm in decline. There's all different phases of your life, your first job, you, your son, your first business, etc. And those periods, they died, they had the go away, single you will go away. and there are things that single you are to do and only meant for single you. Right? And so, yes, delayed gravification is great, but if you look at the totality of the system, if you delay things that belong in single you to later, it means you're never going to have them.

49:41And so that's okay if you've decided and you're constantly saying to yourself, I'm never going to experience this in my life. This is not going to be part of my story. Right? I don't want these things. I don't want that adventure. I don't want that ride. But what I find is a lot of people just I dot these kind of like programs or algorithms gone autopilot without thinking of the total system of their life, right? And what belongs where? So another example might be you go to work the season abroad somewhere. People in the UK often go to Ibiza or New York or somewhere like that. they go and work as a club rep or whatever else, drug dealer.

50:21And it would be like deciding that you were going to go out there and spend all of your time outside of whatever job it was that you were doing in the apartment that you were staying in. Yeah. Because this is how I'm going to optimize this particular period. It means that I get to save more my sleep's going to be better. So, So, you know, the wealth, the health. In the time. Yeah. And you go, well, I mean, why have you bothered to go and work abroad? If that's the plan that you're going to follow, why even bother going and working abroad at all? Because you could earn this money some other way.

50:56Correct. And what you're saying to yourself is during this period, I probably don't intend on coming back to a beether and doing another summer in a beether, all of my memories will be of me going to work coming back to the apartment, going to work coming back to the apartment. and I can't go back and undo that. And what's most likely is that I'm not going to be here and a be through in the future, so I can't redo it. So this is my experience. Right. So if it is to be, it is in this time period and this is going to be your experience. And so, you know, you have to think of the total system, people are getting on autopilot and myopic about the totality of life and what experiences belong in each season of their life.

51:40And so, you know, going back to earlier when we said, you know, life is like Tetris, you gotta get the order right, right? You don't wanna be 40, 50, and go fuck. Or fuck that up. I want an idiot, like I missed out. Better go back to a beathor and try and do the season. Yeah, no, no, you're married, you got four kids, then, you know, your principles and your obligations and everything prevent you from, you know, raving with glow sticks and abiza, right? and doing whatever you do late at night, right? And you know, your obligations, your character, everything has changed. And you knew it was gonna change because this is who it expired to be.

52:17And so had you been off autopilot and thought about it but like, you know what, tonight's the night, right? And future you is going, yes buddy, tonight's the night. You know, future you's tonight's the night, trust me. You know, cause it ain't happened in now, you know, It's all diapers and whatever. It's joy, not a lot of fun, but a lot of joy, you know, with the kids. You know, you had the fun. That's the fun bucket. This is the joy bucket, you know. I wonder how many people struggle and have serious regret as they get later in life from not optimizing their adventure in their fun earlier in life.

52:59I don't have the data to show it, but I have a lot of anecdotes that I think that is the case. I think a lot of people go bananas, right? Like a lot of people didn't do certain things at a certain time and then they're trying to cram it into a period that doesn't really work and it creates conflict, right? Either internally or even externally with partner spouse friends work, et cetera, right? And they're out of balance, right? your the total system of your life, the total time line of your life is out of balance. So they have they have like, phomo of a period, they can't get back and you're trying to recreate, recreate something in a time block and it doesn't work, right?

53:44And so I think we see a lot of that. I don't have like a whole chart data, social, you know, social experiment, but I see it a lot. I see it a lot. Well, one of the saddest things is to see somebody who never grows up that continues to try and live a season of their life that's kind of gone. And there's something that feels kind of a like, destitute and sad about that. Look, there are all of these other things waiting for you out there. They're all of these other experiences and yet the peak of your life is getting a bag in with the boys on a weekend And you know getting into a fight outside of a cabab shop at three in the morning.

54:31Yeah, you know Is it not time to grow up yet? But there is also a challenge to the people who never go through Whatever period of whatever type of fun it is that they want because that also Researchers and comes back around in later life. I would think it would be almost soon Yeah, I tell people like listen, you have now and going forward. And so what stun is done. You have your memories, your experiences, your mistakes, your scars, and you have your resources. Let's optimize what do you want in these next, let's break it down next three years, next three to five years. What experiences belong here?

55:09What choices, what trips, what I love yous, what what what charitable deeds. Let's just go down whatever the list, what health goals, you know, what belongs here. right? How does that fit into the next period? Let's look at the next period, let's look in the next period and then once we get them all lined out, right? We're like, this one belongs here and this one belongs here and now we can optimize it and we have a little bit more, we have a more fulfilling life on a go -forward basis. But wait, wait, we can't optimize it past, right? So let's, let's accept it, enjoy it. Let's, let's, let's go optimal right now.

55:43Let's get present. Let's get off autopilot. it. And I'm really talking to myself, you know, I mean, because that's me. Like, all right, what do you really want? What does the summer look like? Okay, you really want to spend time with your kids with tricks. What methods you're going to employ to like hang out with them with them, but you're not feeling annoying to them. You know, you got one summer left, you got one this like how, how many time are you going to have good talk with them? Like how can you do it before they're off in the wild doing their own thing? Like I guess, you know, let's go time.

56:14How problem. You know, so I, once you get to the point, like you read the book, you apply the principles and you, and you get there, right? Like it's like top level E equals I'm C squared or whatever. Now you're like application layer. Like I want to apply it to my life, you know? So then you bring in other things like, okay, these experiences I want in my life, anything worth having is worth working for, what resources do I bring to bear. Right. And so I treat each period like this is it. This period dies. So this is it. Whatever is unique to this period, do not fuck it up. Do you have your next principle is use all available planning tools.

56:55Yeah. What have you accumulated after having written this book, after having created a philosophy when it comes to trying to get tactical and create frameworks with this. What have you started to rely on? Do you have an assistant? Do you have somebody that helps you to do this? So life, manager. Oh my gosh, this is going to be probably the most obnoxious part of the interview or most, I don't know, ostentatious. So I have assistants. I have a boutique travel firm. I have, you know, I have meetings about ideation, about things to do because there's the things I want to do. And these are the things that I've been culturally trained to do or people I interact with, right?

57:36That I'm going to do that thing, right? But it still kind of like comes within this bubble of my universe. And I need some random stuff that I would normally not do to expand my life, to not have just a cookie cutter life, because one of the things I don't want to have is a cookie cutter life. Okay, that's a fulfilling to me not to have a cookie cutter life. And so there's a lot of, you know, there's assistance to remove the minutiae of my life, right, so that I can do the things I want to do. But they're also there to curate experiences for me. And then there's this boutique travel is one of the things that fulfill me.

58:12I think it's one of the things you spend money on that make you richer, right. So it's ideation, meetings, constant planning about when you can do this, who can come along, what's this next trip, when you're gonna do the Japan train thing. You know, I learned I love training at a random, like I thought I would hate it. I was like, I don't wanna go sit on a train when a bunch of old people on an Orient Express. You gotta wear a suit. I hate wearing suits when you go into the bar car. I was just like, this is gonna be the worst trip of my life, but you know what, I'm gonna do it just because. See, Orient Express, people do it, and I can't just do the things that I normally do.

58:49I'm just cooking up. This is a suggestion of one of your ideologies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I go I go on this thing I I get to to extra I bring my friend Cooper Like let's go on this train. He's like I can only come for this small portion of it, right? I fucking loved it I hate to admit it. I loved it. It was so peaceful. There were views you can see that you can't see by car because There's no road you can't fly low and see it. There's towns. It was beautiful. It was wonderful You can reach, you can relax. I met all kinds of interesting people in the car. I didn't know there was a training society.

59:26There's trains all over. They go through all kinds of places. I was just like, I've been adopted. I don't know. I absolutely loved it. And I was like, this is something I can do to them 90. I can do this for the rest of my life. And I was all excited when I first got off where we're like, we're gonna take the train up to the Machu Picchu. And there's this other one that goes through the desert. And you can go cross Russia. I can't go cross Russian now. but you know, like in the Japan train and we were actually planning a trip and we're like, okay, we're gonna do this summer, we're gonna do this and we thought about it.

59:55We like, wait a minute, wait a minute. You can ride a train at 86, but can you go walk around the city streets and climb the steps of Italy at 86 and get around? Maybe maybe not. So let's push training, not that we're gonna do none of it, right? But we're gonna do less of that now and more of that later, right? That's kind of die with zero thinking, right? That's me. Hey, don't go on autopilot. Just get you have dopamine hit going on a train, right? It's great But let's let's be thoughtful about each time period. Yeah, so autopilot reads its head even all the time all the time all the time It's great autopilot's great.

1:00:35I do so many things Driving you found something that you love yeah, yeah, go do it. Rince repeat exactly. You just keep going like, you know, and it relieves the strain on your prefrontal cortex. But if you want to thrive and you want to optimize, you've got to use a prefrontal cortex a lot. We've got to hire people. I was going to say, I imagine that the outsourcing makes that an awful lot easier. Yeah. So that's the the the dickish thing like I have. Like I ship a lot of money into other people to help optimize life and think about these things and and arrange and and what's going to go on and think about, okay, you've got So, man, what we do and there's tons of planning that they do.

1:01:14None of what you do. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know Rob Deadek, guy that founded DC Shoes? No, I do not. Very rich, very cool, interesting guy. He tracks every second of his life, who's on the show a couple of weeks ago, tracks every second of his life. And he has an entire life design team that basically does the same thing. Brian Johnson, the guy that the longevity dude that's trying to lift to 120, he sold his ton of companies for God knows how much money and he now has a full -time team of cutting edge longevity researchers that basically just give him every single supplement and take the biomarkers and do the things that he needs to do.

1:01:55And my point being that you can think that you're being as obnoxious as you want, but you think that there are levels. You know, everyone's got their own obnoxious version of whatever it is. You know, you're optimizing for life design. Rob's optimizing for tracking his time. Brian's optimizing for his longevity, whatever it is. You know, it's all for film it, right? It's like, you know, it's all for film it. It's like, what is going to be the most fulfilling ride I can possibly have? When it comes to dying with zero, you know, wealth, understood time, understood health, presumably given that health is one of the three core components of what we're talking about today, spending money on things that improve your health and fitness should be a place to...

1:02:39It's a no -brainer. And there's simple things that particularly people that have money, lots of disposable income, you know, talk to them like having a chef. It's like, it's not only is it like convenient and it tastes good. Like you have this chef in your house, right? Whip up anything you want, but they talk to the trainer, they get the macros right, the protein band, whatever, and it's just auto done for you, right? So falls into the health bucket, right? it's easier for me not to become a fat slob because I don't think about food. It's just there. Came down here, they gave me a bag, and it's like, here's your lunch, and here's your snack, here's your vegetarian protein shake, and blah, blah, blah, whatever.

1:03:23And I asked people, people like, well, what are you eating? I'm like, I don't know, Chef, what am I eating? You eat 40, 40, 20. You know what I mean? That's what you're on right now. How many calories? is it this many calories, right? And I'm just dialed, right? So that's like, that's going to help me not have like a shitier life or less experience points to an activity down life. And then you have your trainers and et cetera. And then your checkups and your diagnostics and you keep going on with the health. I've looked at some of these guys and I'm like, yeah, but you're, you know, I was doing I did this hyperbaric chamber thing because it was like, oh, it can lengthen your telomeres and has this health benefit.

1:04:00And I'm like, look, if I can't die and it's quackery, it's okay. Right? It's like, if there's asymmetric upside. And so I was going to redo this Israeli study of going into this hyperbaric chamber. Like, like all these myormarkers are better after doing it. Right? But you have to go into hyperbaric chamber, like, I don't know, consistently for like the months. and this place was like a 45 minute drive away takes like X time to dive down to depth to bring you to pressure. And then you're there for an hour, then you gotta come out, right, and then I gotta get home. I did the math and I was like, it's not worth it.

1:04:43It's like five hours a day or something. Yeah, yeah, it was like four or five hours of like non -productive time things that could be doing other thing in order to get like maybe a year or two or three days. I'm just dicing, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly, exactly. That's not more for filming. That's less net fulfillment points right? I'd rather just add a very healthy point in my life right? Like so it was like I'd rather die sooner right? Okay so if die with zero how'd you work out when you get in the diet? So I look at actual oil tables there's even fans of your tasks that look at like your methodization of your of your of your of your cells, telemiers, etc.

1:05:17but you can get a pretty accurate estimate and you can continually update this right it's like if you're 86 you're not like oh it said I was gonna die at 86 for a very second and I'm stuck dead you know no you're like that that continually gets updated right so that that kind of you know it's not like a static this whole methodology this whole thought process right this whole way of thinking is a continually updating model, right? We're constantly, okay, it wins my death date. I'm alive today that basically pushes you further in the future, et cetera, and just the probabilities is how much money I have.

1:05:58These, I just discovered, I like training. That gets dumped into the model, gets run around, and it's proper time bucket of when I should be doing training and activities, et cetera. So there's just a way of thinking about your life and running this routine constantly. But it is good to have an estimate of when you're going to die. It's good to have an estimate of what are going to be the 10 last years of your life. What do those 10 years look like? How in shape are you? How much have you been doing things that Peter Othie says, have you wrapped enough muscle around yourself, which are VO2? Have you been thinking about these things?

1:06:37Are you able to walk and pick up a small child in your last 10 years? Yes, no. That's gonna change a lot of things where you're gonna live Because you want to hang out with your grandchildren, right? It's pain in the ass like every parent knows this and then they all do the same thing Oh such a pain in the ass to go visit grandma We got to go all the way across town or we got to go another state and go know whatever blah blah blah, right? and My mom moved to Virginia, right? and we're in Texas and the sister is in New Jersey and whatever and she complains about like how we don't see her and come to her.

1:07:13Right? And it's hard on her to travel, right? Like to drop, to drive. And it was like, this is a calculation, you know, maybe staying in Jersey City, you know, obviously she everybody's got to choose how they live and die and she chose that path. But it comes connected with it's a dynamic decision that affects other things in your life. And so So, you know, your health in your last decade of your life is going to determine whether or not you're pretty much cool getting on a plane and traveling by yourself to go visit your grandkids and you, you know, spoil them and ruin your kids, right? Like, fuck dad, why'd you give them all a candy and shit?

1:07:51You know, like, when you get your kids back, right, for being shit, right? or not, like it's a pain in the ass and I need help and a guardian or whatever, so I have to wait for them to come to me and they have busy lives in their own lives, right? So all these things matter. They matter a lot. And I think as humans, I always say we don't net present value well. We're not good with future value and net present value. We're very good with the immediate like, oh, tiger run or bear run or salty thing or sweet thing eat you know that type of thing not really good like if I eat this sweet thing every day it's an extra 250 300 calories so years that's two years 40 extra pounds away you know I mean like we don't we don't do that right we just do the thing right we don't think yeah if I'm out of shape and I can't walk and I can't pick up a small child and based on where I am right now, it's very likely going to happen.

1:08:52It's absolutely a certainty for a lot of people. Therefore, I need to live close to my grandkids if I want to see them, you know, that type of thing. So I've got a plan on retiring near them or seeing them less or whatever. What is some of the other planning tools that people should be aware of? Well, actual tables, when you're going to die, any kind of calendering, I like, you know, on my phone, I have my account down clock when I'm gonna die, right? It's just kinda this like - Totally not morbid, at all. No, it's the known when you know the vacation is gonna end. You take the trip more seriously.

1:09:31Like if you woke up in Paris, you're like, this is great, like I'm in Paris. And you didn't know it was gonna end in a week. You'd be like, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna sleep in today, whatever, blah, blah. If you're gonna be on a week, you're running around like a mad mad. So can you not as much as you can. Just to interject that this is why short trips, like aggressively short trips, 36 hours, 48 hours in a particular location, I think is an undervalued way to do travel. I managed to do, I think it was like eight different things in 24 hours in Miami. It was 24 hours from the plane landing to the plane taking off.

1:10:06I did so much stuff. I met up with tons of different people. I I played pickleball, I met the head of legal for Yeezy at some backyard barbecue. I gave a talk at a conference, I did like a this and this and this and this thing. And it was, I wasn't being driven around. I didn't have like a fancy team that was helping. It was Uber's Uber and a very, very aggressive Mexican lady who beat and turn a traffic to get me back in time for the plane. I probably shouldn't have been able to fit number eight in. But my point being, when Parkinson's law just fist fucks everything else, right? Work expands to fill the time given for it.

1:10:46And your lack of daisiness about how her age you're going to be to get things done will also expand to fill the time that you believe that you've got for it. Yeah. So the fact that you knew you only had 24 hours drove that activity, I wonder if I stretched it out, would you even done it? I would have probably done it. You would have known more things in more time. Yeah, you know, loafing, there's something, loafing, there's something to soak in up the atmosphere. But I'm just saying like with life, I'm trying to create a sense of urgency, right? And then there's other things like, daughter's graduation, she's gone.

1:11:20That's it. I'm like, she's out of the house. Like, oh my gosh, like we constantly talk like, this might be the last summer, because next summer she might want to go with friends or something like that. We're constantly... That's something that's really interesting. And I've heard you talk about it and other parents as well say similar things. Sam Harris talks about why this might be the last time that you ever bounced your daughter on your knee. Right. He always, and it was a really profound story. How did you, when your kids were growing up, How did you really sort of sink into that sense of urgency during a time when you're sleepless and it's difficult to sturdie these all the rest of it?

1:12:03I'm going to be honest, like I fucked it up many times. I messed it up many times. I did not have the sense of urgency. I did not. You think they're going to be these little sweet things that are going to want to hang around you and you're going to be God to them forever. And it's not true. And there, you know, there's a couple more stories I wish I read, you know. There's a couple more times I just hung out not done the business thing or the travel thing or whatever the other thing right and I got the order wrong. So I'm hyper conscious of like let's get the order right now. What's the order that you should you know for the parents of fledgling parents that are listening.

1:12:38What's the period that you need to prioritize with your kids? I think you need to really prioritize the period that they want to be with you and that's usually 12 sub 12. Right. Because it 14 year on cool. At 13 year on cool. Yeah. It starts every parent knows it starts like, you know, it starts drifting and maybe a little bit earlier, whatever, but like through 10, it's like, where you want to go, they want to go, where you want, you know, where we're going to be, this is what we're going to do. They're more amenable, you know, etc. And then it's like, nah. One morning you wake up and you're the lamest person in the world.

1:13:18You don't know anything, Dad. She don't know anything. He may have money, but you don't know nothing, Dad. That's dumb. You're so strange. I am strange. It's so absurd, but it's so annoying. You're so annoying. It's just like it's going to happen, right? And you just enjoy it. You just deal with it. You roll with it, right? But you're still like, you go from like, wow, how do I get time to myself? right with little kids, right? Babies, et cetera. Like I have no time in parents like I need rest. We don't have sex anymore or whatever it is. To, you're banging to spend time with your kids. Like you, it's literally like being, like I don't know if you've ever been in a social situation where you wanted to hang out with the group but they don't want you.

1:14:03That's your kids. Like for a lot of parents, maybe some parents are, God bless them, you know what's your secrets. But like for a lot of it's like, like, oh man, I can't hang out with the cool kids, I can't, whatever. So you, you know, my hack around that was late after my daughter, I was like, oh, I need to be the Uber driver. Like, I get to talk to them when I'm driving in the car. They need me to drive them to their friends house or to go to the thing. Wow. So that's my, that's my hack, right? I'm like majority of the time that I'm gonna spend with them. Actually, the most time I'm gonna spend them with them is when I'm driving around Houston.

1:14:37In Houston's like one of those seas where you get to drive frickin' everywhere, right? So that's my hack. Like, okay, I eventually went from, you know, fighting about who's driving the kids to, I will wake up, I will fly in from another city to drive them. Right? Like, I will. It means that you get to spend time with them. Exactly. Because I try and think for it. And I'm like, what is doing my best mean now? What is doing my best in this area? Like when I'm not on autopilot and my prefrontal cortex is working and I'm on the subject, what does that mean? And then I came up with it like driving as one of them It's a smart solution man.

1:15:15Yeah, so and you know, there's others But that's my own personal bullshit that people probably don't want to hear so Next principle is don't live life on autopilot. Yeah, something that you've mentioned awful lot today What do you think is the typical approach that people on autopilot use to plan their life?

1:15:36Culture Dreams of dead people, what is that? What culture is, right? Dreams of dead people, people before you, around you. Right, other people's dreams. This is what you should do, this is how you should get married. The movies say you should fall in love this way. This is you have X, Y and Z. You find it in all kinds of ways, right? I find people, like, they're friends and I saw somebody really slowly post on internet like, oh, I'm having a meeting somebody, like finding a significant other. And I'm one of those, like, if it's worth having, it's worth working for. Right? So what resources can we bring the bear?

1:16:19And so I'm like, all right, how much time are you spending on this? How many people you're meeting? Like, let's get the spreadsheets out, what network, what persons? Who's your personal network? Who are your friends? How many dates are you going on? Whatever? What are your criteria? And have you set out your criteria? Like, the whole thing. and they're just kind of, I just hope and I bump into an elevator like the movie I saw and then I fall and I say the right movie line and we fall in love, you know, whatever some stupid shit like that and it's not like they're actually thinking that but it's buried in their subconscious, right?

1:16:47And they're on autopilot, they're on cultural autopilot like thinking like, oh, that's how it's going to be. And so that's why I think a lot of people um, you know, propinquity is who they marry. somebody at work, something on the way to work, et cetera. Where I'm just like, wow, we live in a world where you can meet anybody from anywhere and travel. And your range is, you know, there's all these tools you can have to meet people and all these apps and services, et cetera. And you have a much bigger filter and you can be much more deliberate, you can be much more vulnerable and you can get out there.

1:17:22And, you know, so I think people are on autopilot in some of the most important areas in their lives. What like, what one is dating? Who are you gonna marry? I can't think of more important to see. When they're gonna have kids. Right? Oh, we just got pretty, you know, not really planning it. And it's not like it's like unplanned pregnancy. Like, we can see a doctor type of thing. But just like, is this the best year? Is this the best year? Right? Right? Just kind of come what may. Does this fit into like your doctorate? dissertation or whatever, you know, things like that, right? Where they're gonna work.

1:18:03Well, I grew up here in Jersey City and there's a newspaper ad and these people are hiring and these people are hiring. This is kind of where it's work. It's like, no, maybe I should work here. Maybe I should move to California. And a lot of that's fear -based, right? Like, a lot of people, like, I think one of the most restrictive things people do themselves out of fear, an autopilot, is not move within the country. Especially in America. You guys are a continent in a country. Yeah, it's crazy. You have a work permit. You know the language. You have the currency. Your bank can't work. And like, there'll be the most amazing job and opportunity and whatever.

1:18:41And they won't move because somebody lives here. And I've had this conversation with someone. I was like, well, how many times you actually see this relative? I'm going to know in days. often you quantify you didn't mean quantify it was like how much is the plane ticket how much more salary is you know I mean like when you actually spend more quality time with them if it wasn't just like an hour drive or whatever but you can't they prefer to see you in California that's been fucking you exactly if you could bring them out there and which could you could you how could you put that time in on a trip and take them other places can you rearrange the social thing so there's a lot of just this way it is and I'm gonna live here and I don't feel comfortable without really thinking it through.

1:19:25So family work, location of where people live. Yeah, also just even just even ideas of like who says I love you first, etc. Like the everything is just as cultural programming with food you eat with you like. Did intentionality and the lack thereof has been the most common trend that I've seen with people who do and do not have high agency, who do and do not make appropriate changes in their life, that do and do not seem to live a life that's more fulfilling or less fulfilling. Now remember, so I ran nightclubs for a very long time in the UK and I'm in this city which has got about a million people in, so it's not that much smaller than Austin.

1:20:13and you know, success in a lot of the ways I think that the world would tell a guy in his 20s that he's supposed to have success with the, you know, status and money and women and whatnot. But I used to go outside in the house in my first house that I bought, there was a backyard and I would open the door before I went to bed and I'd do this every night, every night for months and months and months and I'd look up at the stars and I remember thinking I wish I could be anywhere else but here. And I was like fuck like how have I got myself to the stage where I love this life and what I've built in terms of a business, but I know that it's not right.

1:20:52And yet I was so terrified of making some sort of a change because look at why I would be giving up. What if I fall flat in my face? What if I look stupid? What if I have to come back with my tail between my legs? That probably the latter part I say is what stops most people. It's not really what they're giving up on the money or whatever that they can rebuild it or It's not you know they can go Go figure it out right. It's the Judgment of their peers or themselves one of the peers is themselves right you're gonna like you fucking idiot You came up the thing and it didn't work out right but a lot of is the judgment of your peers your friends like et cetera And so a lot of people don't take the chance don't take the risk and And I'm a maximum risk.

1:21:34Take as much risk as you possibly can stand and then add a little bit more, you know, especially when you're young. Plan in terms of seasons. We've spoken about this before, the Tetris, the whole idea is like, you know, we all think that we have, we're all going to die, but we also have all these many deaths, right? These seasons of our lives, like the single you, the parent of a young child, the first job, the unemployed you, the first job you, the first business you, right? The empty nest are you, right? The retiree are you, right? There's all these seasons in your life. And so when you think about your life in seasons, if how they fit together and how we optimize each period, then you're going to have a much more overall better optimization for your entire life, right?

1:22:28You're not going to be like holy shit. The young kid season, I fucking missed out on 50 more stories I should have read, right? And I don't have that. I don't have that bond. And it's not like I'm going to be able to pop my 13 year old or 16 year old on my knee. Let me tell you, and poo said, you know what I mean? Like it's just not happening, right? Like it's over. You don't get that back. And the young business, the young you that like has a chance to start a business right you don't have all these other obligations That maybe stop you from taking those risks because it's a pooled risk now like you know, I You know, I took flying lessons.

1:23:05You just go flying. I used to write a motorcycle and it's you know my College girlfriend's mother was a nurse. She's like you're idiot. You're writing a kidney donor machine That's what we call them. But at that age, I could take that risk. It's only reckless for you. It's only reckless for me. And then, you know, a second flying lessons. And general aviation is about... A lot of people don't realize this. Before you get to professional, there's just general aviation. And those stats are just about a motorcycle. Oh, fuck. I've got... I'm literally in talks to get my first set of flying lessons and I put the shits up.

1:23:41no, but do you have kids? No. Okay, so go ahead. I'd kill you, Bob. Go far away. No. I literally almost kill myself one time too. Well, happened. So I was at Sugar Lann airport doing touch and goes, flying around. And there is a wire at the end that you have to clear, right? It's not a problem at all. Except on Sessna 172Rs, a lot of times the wheels shake in the front, right? If somebody landed it before, if you touched the landing, right, they give a little shake and a shimmy. So it's squawked. It's not that big of a deal, but it can be on an issue. So I landed and one of the touching goes doing the flaps up whatever full power, but the plane is shimming like crazy.

1:24:21And I'm like, you know, trying to get it done. And I'm moving down the runway at the same time. So I have to make a decision. Do I bail at sea? Okay, or do I trying gun it and clear this telephone war. And like some neuron fired out, bail. So I ran, bail, rip it, you know, like just kinda like, and I called him the instructor and I was like, uh, yeah, I decided to bail. She was like, yeah, you made the right decision and I was just like, fuck, I was a second away from making a wrong decision. Like there is a very, very close door on like, Bill go, I can fucking do this. You know what I mean? Like, and then next you know, get decalitated by a telephone.

1:25:00Well, what happened is it clipped the wire and the plane crashes and these things are like, you know, aluminum foil, you see, engine in your chest and your dad, right? Like you're just, you're not, these are not Teslas or you know, there's no crash test dummies and incest them with 72 hours. It crashes, you're gone, right? And so in that matter, you know, you're cartwheeling whatever. So I thought about that and when I remember when pregnant with sky I was like, that's it. I used to read the Accentance Reports and I was like, oh, you know, it's always pilot error. Pilot error, pilot error, parallel, even when it's the plane, it's like pilot error, right?

1:25:37And I thought, I used to think, oh, I would never do that. And then I thought about it, I'm like, no, I am the guy who would do that. Who am I kidding? I am that guy. And I was like, I don't have the right to take the risk and that was it. That was the end of my learning how to fly it. Flying Korea over before it began. I mean, if I had gotten to IFR and a professional, you know, then it would have been like, you know, jet travel, whatever. Oh, so what you're saying is get your pilot's license early. Well, I think get to the point where you're a professional. Yeah, well, you're just like tooling around and once any tour and your private pilot doing the G8, that's motorcycle riders.

1:26:13And the stats are very similar to motorcycles. Like, psych. Well, I hope that my mom is not listening to this one because yeah, I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, mom, sorry, mom, that's okay. No, when to stop. No, when to stop. We're talking about the balance, I suppose, between people's health, wealth, and time. Some people say that they like to work. Some people are given a sense of meaning by work, which I think is a little bit different than you're given a sense of purpose. But knowing when you should stop working, saving. Yeah. It's a difficult decision. These are difficult decisions and usually when I talk to friends, right, like it's always a battle.

1:26:56It's an argument, right? Like I actually had conversation, guy asked me to come and wanted to ask my advice on something, game the advice and you just want to argue with me about being right. And I'm like, I can't, you're gonna be like, I can't, I can't tell you that, you know, if you're on heroin and you want to give me the heroin argument, like, I can't tell you you're wrong, right? Like, this fulfills you, saying it's the most fulfilling thing. All you're going to do is point to some stats, give a little bit of logic about like all the choices with the odds that you picked the right one. And that there, it's unlikely that there's not more fulfilling things for you to try if you just exercise those muscles, right?

1:27:39But I generally tell my friends, like, listen, work till you day, day, day, just make sure you enjoy the ride as well. Don't let it consume you. So hey, if you want to be the casual, occasional opium user, okay. You know what I mean? If it's not affecting the rest of your life, right? It's not an addiction. But when I look at the totality, some people's lives, I'm like, this looks just like an addiction. It's compulsive work. Well, it consumes the rest of your life. It fucks up. If it's fucking with your ski trips, and you're hanging out with your friends, and you have the travel and time you have more money than you need.

1:28:19Exactly. And whatever. Well, there's no reason. We're just talking about entertainment dollars. We already got survival mode covered. We've covered that number. Now, we're talking about what's going on here. Now it's interfering with the rest of your life. Okay. So how do you know when to stop? This is individual for every person. For me, I'll just speak for me is when it interferes with my life. So the technology has been great that it hasn't interfered enough with my life. And it still affords me things that I want that I cannot have as opposed to pain. So like I like to attach for me, I like to attach what am I working for?

1:29:06Because in theory, right, if I went through the exercise in heaven with God and I had all my experiences and we had a nice little spreadsheet and we attached all the dollars to them. I know exactly when to stop working and investing. Exactly. I'm like, I got it. That's the number. It's exactly the number I have enough and I have it, my concept of enough, right? I have everything. I'm going to get it blah, blah, blah, blah. All the experiences are going to happen and then I'm going to hit the grave, right? For me, it's what is it that I don't have now and cannot afford how to the arc of my life that I want, right?

1:29:46And it's one thing. That's it. And it's to the point. It used to be two things. I actually thought I wanted this plane with a bigger range and all this other kind of stuff. And I charted it. And I was like, I will not work. I will not waste hours of my life for this experience. It's not worth it. And I dropped it off the list. And it felt really good because I was close. Getting really close. I was like, this is great. It felt great to shed that obligation. Like I am not wasting hours of my life for this thing. And I was like, whatever money that was going to go to this thing, it's now going to bigger parties and other things and charity and here you go.

1:30:25And that type of stuff, right? And so that felt really good. What's the one thing that's left? Uh, a yacht. That's it. Like if you're like, hey, here's your golden ticket to a yacht, like a Willy Wonka style, you know, and you don't have to pay the mate. It's not the cat -bex. It's the Yop -X one, Yots. Because I can do that for the rest of my life. And I really enjoy it. It's a floating thing. It's very ostentatious and bullshit to say, but it's like that thing I really love. Like I like travel on bougie. It's pretty amazing But even then I'm like You know There are other things I can do besides yachting and I probably would only do it X months a year and Maybe I can cut that back and find another activity mouthy coast is nice though.

1:31:15It's fucking amazing And have you ever gone on a side? I just Serbia and all that area like it's Adriatic is I mean it's just it's just amazing So what you're looking at is a projection forward. What is it that I want to do? What do I need to have in order to be able to do the things that I want to do? How far off that am I? Yes, and the cost, right? Like it doesn't... If I was out there digging ditches and it was very painful, right? And it's very taxing on my time. The cost of earning the money in the future. the time. So if I had to like, oh, I have to go to a nine to five and it's eight hours or whatever, but I don't work a nine to five.

1:31:52I treat commodities. It's hyper leveraged, right? There is some mental stress. There's a lot of people, you know, that are dependent, etc. But the yield on my time is pretty fantastic, right? But you could imagine another universe in which the price that you paid other cost, as you said in terms of your sanity, if you were wired slightly differently, would be so extreme that it may not be worth it. No, I could definitely say it not be worth it, right? There's sometimes like, I trade commodities, it's crazy. There's a lot of stress. It's not stressful for me because I'm just always like, I was going to say you must be built for it if that's the case.

1:32:28I think while traders are all good traders at last, they are like a lot of... It's it selects out of the pool. Yes, because the most people I've been told need five to seven positive events to make up for one negative event The best traders are 60 40 if that right so that means they have You know the best in the world which I'm not the best in the world, but like the best best best best in the world are having like four bad days for every six and if they need one to seven the emotional math doesn't work out So there are people who are very smart who come in, right, with 6 through 40, but then the emotional math catches up to them that go crazy and they lose money and they're out of the game, right?

1:33:10We're just not worth it. They're addicted to drugs or some other outlet to fix this emotional math that doesn't work, right? Like, I have lots of shitty days. Today was a very shitty day, right? And I'm like, okay, so bees, you know what I mean? It bees like that sometime. like I don't, I don't, because I'll be optimizing for film at every wealth level, it doesn't really bother me. I'm really happy to be alive and I think everything else is gravy. Fuck yeah. So give money to kids in charity early. Yes. So this is, this hits a lot of people. So like some people might be too scared to implement that I was early, they might still argue about them.

1:33:49Principle one thing that hits a lot of people is, you know, that the same laws of physics that govern my body, right? The fact that most of us reach mental maturity at 28, physical peak maturity at 33, and then we're in plateau and decline. Every human, right? There might be some wild exceptions, right? So if you're at the bestest, bestest, bestest shape of your life at 33, you'll never be in better shape, right? Technology, not a standard. Right, so, and then their ability to enjoy experiences, certain experiences will decline as they age. Right, they have that same lifespan, archivized span, deterioration, etc.

1:34:38Right, and they also get the memory dividend, right, using the memory dividend investing early. And so if you live to like 86 or 90 and you die and then you give your money, kids, You know people say I'm working for my kids. What about their inheritance? I'm like, well, what about your fucking kids? Who you want to get money to a 60 year old? 56 Like eat a bag of dicks. Sorry. I'm not supposed to say this on this podcast Like what the fuck are you talking about? That's not thinking about your kids, right? We want to have maximum impact Maximum experiences, right? So they want to go Helsking they want to enjoy it.

1:35:12They want to take their kids on vacation. They want to they they're all kinds of experiences as they want to have. Also remembering consumption smoothing. Correct. The dollar amount will be more valuable the early year give it to them. Correct. So it's really about what is the most fulfilling time to give them the money? And, sorry. And you being able to enjoy the reflective glow of the money that you've given to your kids while you can still do a thing. I agree. That's more of a selfish way of doing it, but that is part of it, right? Like you get the, you get the, I'm an only child. Exactly. But it's part of it, right?

1:35:48It's part of the decision process. But if we just focus on the children, you know, we want to have maximum impact, maximum fulfillment. They're ability to have the most fulfilling life possible. And it's not given them a bunch of money when they're 60. Not kids. They might not even be alive. Yep. Okay. Some kids do pre -decease their parents, unfortunately. So, if we're really thinking about our kids, right, like if an inheritance is to impact them in a positive way and to give them the most fulfilling life and for them to have positive life experiences, we'd have considered the memory dividend.

1:36:23Right? Having an event happen at 30 is a lot more dividends than an event at 60, right? We got to think about their health and their ability to do certain activities or their aptitude of willingness, right? They don't want to go to a Broadway show at 60. You gotta sit, it's too long, hurts my corns, whatever. I don't wanna be in New York, the noise bothers me. Right? I just wanna hang out in garden when I'm 60. You have to think about the arc of their life and things they wanna do. And so the idea that you're delaying gratification for your kids that will lead to a lot of no gratification, the impact of that GIF, even if it's a lower amount between in their 30s.

1:37:0728 to 30, I recommend between 25 and no later than 33. Right? Depending on how mature they are, et cetera. And people are like, well, I have a kid, he's not mature, I'm like, listen, they are who they are now. No amount, you know what I mean? Are you trying to idiot 33? You're all just not going to be a pro -culture. I'm saying 45. Exactly, so let them have their life. You lived your life. You know, I spoke to a bunch of people and you know, they have these groups that are very wealthy, they meet. And I can only talk about what I talked about. But I was like, fuck you dude, you lived your life.

1:37:45Like your kid lived his life, you trying to control him from the grave? Is that what you're trying to do? You're trying to control him with money? Like do you want to give them money and have them have their ride in their adventure or not? You know, not this - Oh, 90 and you're 62. It's just the dumbest fucking thing in the world. It's not really thinking about your kids, right? It's just something that culturally has happened. The king died and this guy is the new king and whatever and then people started to have their own wealth and they started doing the same thing. I died now all these lands yours.

1:38:16You know, maybe I don't want to be a fucking farmer. Why charity early then? So charity, it's the same thing. Like, I'm not gonna save these starving kids now. I'm gonna wait till I die. What is that? What is that? Is this some sort of tip when we're out? Are you really thinking about the needs of humanity and the people that rode this planet with you? Is your ripple now or are you trying to save people 2 ,000 years from the future now? If would your judgment of this change if the ability of the money to compound to a you a crew number volume. No, why? For me, if there was a fun, let's check an extreme example, the makeup point.

1:39:08If there was a fun to save the Jews getting out of the Holocaust, I mean, like, no, I can get a better return and I can save more people in 2020. Like, fuck you, dude. Fuck you. You know, like, this extreme example, we don't have that example. It doesn't exist. So, you know, and also the the impacts on charitable giving, particularly in education, saving a life, a life compounds and does more wonders than any kind of investment you can do. So I also think it's just arrogant that my return is going to be better than your life or these 10 lives or these 100 lives. Like I just think it's an arrogant assumption and a false assumption.

1:39:45And like I'm here writing this planet with these humans and my ripple is now. Right. I want to have an impact now. And that investment now has a huge, huge, huge return that I don't get to see. I can't quantify it. There's not a bunch of statisticians and, you know, it has an impact, right? I'm not just giving money to feel good. I'm having an impact, but I'm not. Nobody's giving me a bunch of numbers, et cetera. I just know that the impact on that life is huge right now. And so life is urgent. Life is now. Fuck yeah. Last one. Take big risks early, not later. Why? So, I've debated this with friends, but the bottom line is that for most people, future you has other people and other obligations and you cannot recover as quickly.

1:40:42Right? I used to example like a panna was like smoking weed and crack and then, you know, he's present. right? Like it's hard to be smoking for weed and crack now and then you know later in life and be present. You can recover from so many things. You can fuck around for four years and then go to med school and become a brain surgeon, right? And you don't have kids, other obligations, a path that you've dug for yourself that's harder to get out. You can reorient yourself and have met your time billionaire. You have a billion seconds, right? So you have a lot of time to recover reorient yourself and still have a very, very fulfilling life.

1:41:22The consequences of taking what seems like big risks are not as great because of your ability to heal and recover. It's the same thing physically, right? If I tear something, fuck, it's going to take a long time. 17 -year -old tear something, like, how did I... My daughter had... She got airlifted out of Asmond to Denver childrens, right? She got this infection and I don't know. She was traveling and kids have porous bones. So it went to the back of her eye and it was gonna go in her brain and like your daughter has to go now. So they took her out of a small hospital in Asmond, whatever, she had two surgeries.

1:41:58I was bulging out. Her resting heart rate was 15560. I'm panicking, right? So they do the surgery, she's out of it. I thought this is the last time I see my daughter. A week later she's like, can I go to camp? Can I go swimming? Look what the fuck? You alien. Which? Exactly. You know? Rubber and magic. And like when you have two kids, like you know, your first kid, you're like, oh my god, I have a fever. You're running to the hospital. You're yelling and screaming at each other. They drop in a fall. You're like flipping out or everything, right? But a second kid, you're like a rolling rime here.

1:42:31That'll be fine. Every fine. Right? Let me be fine. And so, but if I felt like that, or I get sick like that, of my resting heart rate is 155. You know? They're like calling the priest, right? I was like, calling the priest, right? And so this is like your time, the asymmetric aspect, sorry about that. That is my six o 'clock alarm. One of the technologies I use that reminds me and prompts me to connect with my life. So you would usually ring her textor? Well, we'll be having our chit -let's presence. We'll usually maybe do an hour. We'll try and get an hour in. We'll chat with each other. We'll drop everything and we'll connect.

1:43:12Or if we're busy, whatever's just like, hey, baby, I love you. Like, I love you too. Let's go on. How's your day? It's cool. So one of the technologies you use is, you know, when Alan Lems and everything, it's going to be greater. It's going to be great. Like, you're going to have, they're going to ingest Diwad Zero. They're going to ingest the thousand questions from me, some of the other tools that other people have built on top of it. that there's going to be LLM and you're just going to be about asking questions and it's going to be about answering. Like, should I do this or whatever? Well, according to the philosophy, according to the spreadsheet, it's own so built.

1:43:42According to your finances, so I can't wait for that happens because that's originally what I wanted. I didn't want to fucking book. You wanted to auto die with zero. I wanted this app for me to tell me what to do. You know, have a chef and they tell me what to eat. I wanted to think, like, Bill, go on a boat trip. Or after a boat trip. You're going to Vietnam. camp this trail, hike here, stay in this hut. I know you don't like standing huts, but you're gonna love it. You know, I'm gonna have a hexa -co personality profile. Exactly, and then just keep just ideating and giving me the adventure.

1:44:13So then when I hit the grave, I have all these scars, and I'm like, I use this fucking thing out. I had a great ride. But going back to this take risk early, right? Like I can't jump the wakeboard, wake right now. I can't do I can't do these things and so the the the asymmetry of the risks You know starts to disappear, right? But early means now like what risk you can take now means early and sometimes everybody always thinks financial, right? Always thinks financial. I'm like tell the fucking girl you love her first bear your heart Take the ride It's probably gonna get broken, but But that's great.

1:44:59You'll learn from it. You know? Sometimes it means that. Sometimes it means just make the move. What would you say to the people who feel like they want to maximize their life, but they are risk averse in life decisions and job changes and breaking up with partners that are not right for them in finances? What would you say to them? All right. I'm going to say something a little bit different. The first thing I'm going to say is fuck the haters because a lot of the times you don't do something. It's because you're afraid of being judged by other people. A lot of people can stand the financial risk or even like the emotional risk or whatever.

1:45:33They cannot stand the whispers and judgment of people that I told you so. A lot of people, I tell people this whole time, people like success, but they love a failure. And failure validates their own cowardice. Right? So when you go out and you try the business and think and you fail, They're like, I don't look like an idiot for not trying myself. See Jim Jim over here, he failed. So I don't have to try. That's why I can live this miserable job that I'm afraid to quit or whatever. If you go quit, you go fucking succeed. Fuck. They're exposed. They're on cowardice as exposed, right? But I say just go live the adventure.

1:46:17Like it's not we I think we focus too much. I want a podcast and I you know I respect all these podcasters out there getting idea out to people summarizing them taking a long -ass blathering boring guy like me making it interesting and putting it out there for people but I want the guys who tried and failed. I want the guys like fuck really and then what happened and oh my god Those are heroes, man. We always catch the, we always have, we always talk to the salmon who's upstream spawning. But we need some of the salmon that like, fuck, I went the wrong way and I got eaten by a bear. Yeah, I mean, obviously you can't talk for like, you know, like, this is what happened while I tried this, right?

1:46:59You know, cause there's just learnings in that. And there's a good ride. And there's a lot of people who will fail but like I wouldn't do anything different. Right, maybe I tweaked the thing or this didn't happen to the bad thing, or I would have been nicer to the employee and he wouldn't quit or whatever, but there's learnings in that. And that's all right. The selection effect of the people who have the most notoriety are the ones that are least familiar with failure, or at least with big failure, catastrophic failure, which creates a world of people who are successes and only successes, talking and giving advice, which probably creates a culture downstream from that of people who are hypersensitized to failure.

1:47:40I've been busted twice after making it. I've gotten the worst failure in my life. I've had some huge failures and some huge tries. I'm here on your podcast. People were actually going to listen to me talk about my bullshit and to the person out there who's out there, who's on the edge or, you know, if they really think about it, like it's a lot of it's your fear of being judged and you're judging yourself. Just do your best, that's all you can do. Get out there, take a life by the balls. Like, don't live. If you, like, there is some romanticism and I don't want to take away from it from the cookie cutter simple life.

1:48:25There are some people out there who truly enjoy it. Like the talent of my life, I would love to be a farmer. Just the monotony of growing things in the intricacy, right? But right now, I want scars, man. I want the right. I do not want the cookie cutter life. I don't want to waste this ride. And so for the person out there who's like cookie -cutting it, but like really yearns to like strike out, try anything, move to the new city, chase the girl, say I love you first, You didn't mean get in shape, run the marathon, whatever it is, right? Like don't waste your fucking life, dude. Don't do it. Don't let the fucking judgment of the haters make you waste your fucking life.

1:49:12I love it. Bill Perkins, ladies and gentlemen, if people want to keep up to date with the stuff that you do, where should they come? Oh my god. My Twitter account is just like chaos, but at BP22, you know, you might follow me and then unfollow me because I'm hot take city, but that's where you can actually, I can actually increase my Dumbar number, you know what I mean? Like you have a certain limit of social interactions, but I can occasionally random and debate with people on Twitter. I love to chop it up there. It might be an addiction. I'm on Instagram, but it's really just kind of like a diary for me to have a memory different from my life.

1:49:47So I video a lot of random shit or cool shit I'm doing. highlight reels so that when I'm in my 80s I can be like that motherfucker was bad ass This is great. Well, this is great. Yeah, I remember that remember that you know You know the memory jars right and so so I'm Bill Perkins on Instagram. I'm at BP 22 on Twitter That's about it. You know, I'm Roman and winging life just like the rest of you Bill, I really appreciate you man. I think your works Very much needed. It's a great counter to a lot of the conversations that we're hearing at the moment about the sacrifice, mentality, monk mode, people that are, how do you say?

1:50:29Justifying that own risk of version as nobility when it's not, it's fear. And I love the fact that there is someone saying swing for the fucking fences and just see how fucking... Yeah, I'm not saying, if you wanna be a monk mode, I'll hire you. I hire those people. It's like, like, Tiger Mom people, right? like whatever like they raise the kids. I'm sorry I know we're supposed to be wrapping this up, but you can edit it out. No, no. The, this whole idea like they're like, oh my cake can do this and like they raise these robots and I'm like, they'll make great employees for my kids. Great fucking employees, right?

1:51:07You just took the soul out of these people and live in fear and then like they'll exchange their whole god damn life for like what they consider a high salary and a little bit of prestige and a job and I'm like, I'll be the one, sweat my fucking balls off, put all my money on the line, building a preferring, and your workers will be helping me get there as foot soldiers. And that's where they'll always be, as foot soldiers, and they can have their boring, could you cut our life? So be careful what values you inculcate. Exactly, exactly. And so these hustle bros about, like, you know, I'm gonna fucking do 10 years, 15 years in syncing, and then I'm gonna be badass when I'm 35, I'm like, dude, people in 35 really look back on their 20s.

1:51:47Like if you ever go hang out with people and you go to dinner, a lot of the conversation is about the past. Shit they've done. Like I actually had this plan that didn't complete because got divorced, but we were gonna go live in a different city every summer because I was like, you know, maybe after 10 years of doing that, I'll be an interesting person and people will talk to me and I can have a lot of stories to talk about, right? But this is almost the exact opposite. I'm gonna go with fucking jail. Become some sort of money making robot. Trying to become the most uninteresting person in the room.

1:52:24That's horrible. That's not what humans are. Humans are here to connect. We're wired to connect and enjoy. We're wired to thrive. We're the only animal wired to thrive. Every other fucking animal is just trying to survive. Don't do that. That's all right. Bill Perkins, I appreciate you. Thank you for coming on, man. Thanks for having me.