#666 - John Lovell - How To Defeat Your Inner Coward

0:00What does it mean to live free and die well? Sure, so it's wrapped up in our whole warrior podium, though. So that's living for higher purpose being ready to sacrifice in the defense of others. Ultimately to live well in the present, you have to really start with the end in mind. Lots of folks just go through life in an extremely reactionary manner. Things happen, the tyranny of the urgent comes up and before you know it all of your waking hours and even you're kind of Off hours are spent stressing about stuff, though if you were given a death diagnosis, you know, you are terminally ill, much of the stuff that we draw on with every single day would immediately sift to the edges of our attention as not important and what can happen in the tyranny of the origin is the most important stuff gets shuffled to the back.

0:51Being able to die well means that you lived a life that was worthy of your calling, so to speak. And in so doing, you're able to live well with kind of that end in mind. And so in my estimation, having faced death, many different times, it really allowed me to focus on what I wanted to do in life. And so it turns out that you'll die the exact same way that you live, whether that's poorly or well. I love the tyranny of the agent. I absolutely love that. I think it's so accurate for how many people live their lives. There's this meme that I saw floating around a while ago that said, adulthood is just one series of weeks after the next, saying, after this week, it'll calm down and then you die.

1:43It's such a trap. Folks think of me and my nine to five sucks. If I can just get through all the chores and the tasks and I fix up the house and I pay that off and I work and you know ultimately one day I'll have a nest egg big enough and then when I'm 65 years old I'm going to really start living that's when it'll get really good. And what you don't realize is that is overrated once you even get there. Look back of like no, no, let's start living well right right now. All there is is today, you're not promised tomorrow. And so I don't want to delay living and having a meaningful impact on the world around me for hoping that one day I can start living right.

2:29You mentioned that you've faced death. You were in the armed forces for a long while. You did a number of tours and you were in some kinetic encounters. I guess you could say, what was the closest that you think you came to death? I wasn't in a long while. I did a pack to a whole bunch of combat into a shorter period time. So I did five combat tours, but I jumped around and did a whole bunch of stuff in my life. Closest I've gotten to death. Who knows? I was in a near ambush. You're not supposed to live through those. There's a really, really awful. I got an afar ambush as well. What's the difference between a near and a far ambush?

3:08Well, proximity, but a near ambush is supposed to be 35 meters and in. It's basically hand grenade range. And so the idea is you're moving, you're moving, whether it's on foot or through vehicle, we happen to be stripped down humvee. So we didn't have doors. We didn't have ceilings or anything. No armor. So we were able to range us, jump out and in a moment be ready to fight. So we didn't like all the armor stuff. It just ends up being just a metal coffin to us. but we got hit. I was the lead driver. It's kind of like a fire breathing team leader. You want somebody who is going to react well under pressure.

3:44And so that was kind of a nice position, because I'm target number one in something like a near ambush. If you take out the lead driver, all the vehicle stop, then you kill the rear driver. And then it's just a massacre kill box. And so your job in an ambush is to punch out. And that's what we did. We're able to punch out. I had like a 50 cow ammo from up top came out of its, came out of its ammo box. It's like hit me in the head and I'm supposed to drive, but some RPG or IED blew out my front right tire and so it takes two arms to rip my steering wheel over and I'm going down this road, which is really just this horrible dried up creek bed that just, I mean, you have to really plan your route to figure out how you're not gonna high center somewhere.

4:27And so it's just a mess and this 50 cow ammo has hit me in the helmet. and I'm wanting to get in the fight and shoot at the same time, but I'm supposed to punch out. And so, man, it was a mess. It could have been that or it could have been, you know, that sucked. You never know how many things where you were kind of in enemy crosshairs and nothing went wrong. They could have shot you, but you didn't. So, you don't really count any of that stuff. Gun fights, rating, terrorist training camps, or one of my very first in closest interactions that I ever got into. It's like room on room gunfight. And that was real close.

5:05And after coming through a doorway and putting this joker down, we looked and right over my upper left shoulder were SKS bullet holes in the wall. That one, that one's kinda, that improved my prayer life. Fuck. Yeah, I've always been fascinated by this. In scenarios like that, what is the balance of fear or being scared compared with a more tense encounter where it's more protracted? Maybe it's at night, maybe you're creeping up on an enemy location, maybe you're moving from room to room. I'm always interested in this because I think when people think about that being scary, I'm not sure if that's an accurate representation of the flood of hormones that your body's going to dump into you I would imagine that that's just kind of hectic and intense, but there will be more scary situations you get into that are less kinetic immediately.

6:05Great question. I wish I could take fear and put it in this polished nice box where it's kind of like Here it is, but truth be told it's a lot of lunging forward and doing well and then all the sudden being set back and you're kind of like, I thought I was over this because even looking back, I remember a couple different freezing points where the terror was so stark, I just locked up, I couldn't move and it could have happened that something had gone bad in that moment and I would have had to carry that my whole life. Thankfully, those moments, though I remember two different freezing points where it was just so horrifying, I couldn't really handle it.

6:47I think, you know, in my head, it was like I was, my legs were concrete for minutes at a time. It was probably just a few seconds and I was able to kind of get out of that and press forward other times. I've been able to just, I should have been scared, but I really wasn't. Sometimes I got just pissed like you trying to kill me. How, you just go to work out dare you try to kill me. I'm going to kill you back. And so sometimes it's rage. Other times, and this is the best one, is it's not horrible fear and it's not rage, it's just calm, cold, mass. And that's where I really wanted to live and work.

7:22And that was really the goal is, though the world is on fire and falling apart around you and you're pretty sure you're about to eat it, you're just going to do the right thing and make the next right decision and calm, cool waters on the surface and raging hard underneath. And so I want cold hard math. And that's really, I think, the most ideal goal. Would you mind telling us those stories that you said when you froze? One is, let's see, one is kind of stupid because it was a nothing mission for me in that there was hot stuff happen around like I had my buddy had his leg blown off and we were raiding a terrorist training camp.

8:00And I was just coming to kind of the edge of this ravine. and there was tall grass. We had just come in on some birds and rotary wing that had just dropped just like half a click out, we had hustled over and my night visions fogging up and whatnot and we're looking out. And I'm doing pretty well, but then somebody says, hey, they're climbing up the cliffs. Maybe someone said it, maybe I imagined it, but I realized as if just the way the terrain was, if they kind of climbed up and popped up, But we'd be face to face, you know, just, and I wouldn't be able to see them coming. It was just too much noise and fire and smoke and guns and you just couldn't hear a lot.

8:40And you know, I realized, man, I'm really blind here. And if I am to sneak out a little bit farther, so I have visibility down, I'm going to be perfectly backlit because of the illumination. And so I knew better tactics than to make that mistake. It's a very good target. Yeah, you'll be, you'll be skyline, you'll be silhouetted. And so you've got to be able to read lighting conditions even undernaughts night vision And so I knew enough to be like many if you Skyline yourself right there in the ravine anybody and there's gonna see me a light me up like a Christmas tree And so I was just kind of stuck in an awkward place.

9:14I'm like I hated my terrain I hated my position and we already got dudes screaming and we got a medevac going over but it wasn't I should have been able to do better than that for so whatever reason it just freaked me out I just I couldn't handle it in the moment, you know, and I'd handled other stuff that was scarier before that and after that. And so here's a lesson I learned is no one ever masters fear. Every single day you got to get up and their fear will manifest itself in a million different ways. There it was kind of gunfighting and it's more sexy and glamorous to some of the viewers, but I mean like, hey man, getting out and getting in a small business, that's scary.

9:54confront your friend about something or having an uncomfortable conversation or risking being canceled or losing your job. There's all kinds of ways that fear can come up and get you, but I've performed everywhere on the scale of absolute hero and absolute zero. And just because you have performed bravely in the past is no guarantee you will behave bravely in the future. Every day you've got to keep ironing it, which sucks because I'd like to be like, yep, I have arrived. I'm amazing. It's just not true. It sucks. Yeah, I think a lot of people who see guys like yourself with, you know, a heroic past serving the country would presume that what he's been in firefights, he's been shot at.

10:39There's been bullets, a couple of inches above his shoulder and across from his head. Therefore, the normal vicissitudes of life, they're just going to be water off a duck's back. How much have you found and the bravery or your ability to overcome challenges and fear and freezing in those scenarios crossover to fears of being canceled. You've got a huge, huge YouTube channel. You're in risk of losing that. If you say the wrong thing, you've got the stresses of coordinating a team, you've got concerns. Am I saying it right? Am I saying it right? Is this serving the audience in the right way? Just how different is that?

11:18It's different and it's not. A fear management and being able to inoculate yourself against all the fear stuff. That's all usable stuff, but a lot of vets get out and they don't make the jump. Case in point, now, have a buddy had 19 or 20 combat tours. I had five. That's a lot. I did a lot. He did 19, special forces. It's like this guy's a hero. A lot of guys are, they know one thing very well. and it's a terrifying and scary thing the most, but it's familiar. You know, this is what we do. We go out in a hot bag guys and they hunt us back and we see how it goes. But they're very terrified to get out in the civilian world.

11:58They don't know how to do just basic, some basic life. So there was this one guy, a special forces guy I'm talking about. He got out in the civilian world, he's finally done, and he was wrestling with this contract, and he couldn't do it and he listened like, John, I can run toward gunfire, but contracts freak me out. That's a quote. And so, I mean, fear, just because you've done well in one sector doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be able to effectively and seamlessly pull that over into all other areas. You know, you have some grisly soldiers not afraid of al -Qaeda terrified to speak to girls.

12:43And girls are scary in their defense. You know? That is true. Girls are scary, so I'm not cast and shade. I've been married 16 years. I love my wife. I lead my wife. I'm in charge, but she is, she can be scary. So. Yeah. Okay. I think that's really important to remember that you have to earn it every single day. You know, there are new challenges that are going to face you and you can't rest on your laurels. I've noticed periods in my life where I've started to take my foot off the gas and I've started, it's not even foot on the gas necessarily, it's being less intentional. I think that's the main predeterminate.

13:26That's the lead measure of what happens and the lagging measure is my sleep's off or I don't feel so good or I'm not eating well or my relationships are suffering or I'm I'm not showing up on the show as well as I should do. The lead measure is not being intentional and a lot of the time that is born out of fear. Okay, well, what if this goes wrong? What if I look stupid? What if I, whatever? There was this, we recently hit a million subs on the channel and I did this video sort of reacting to it live and it was a little bit emotional, but then I felt silly about it being emotional. And I thought, well, you know, it's just a number on a screen.

14:05This is lame getting emotional about hitting this subscriber milestone. Even though it's been tens of thousands of hours over half a decade and started in my living room and now it's this big thing and we get to travel all over the world and it's a dream life and I've brought one of my best friends along with me and all this stuff. But it still felt silly. And I was like, okay, well that's another opportunity to try and lean into fear. It's not the same sort of fear of being shot out in a homevie. But it was fucking terrifying to think, I'm going to put this video out. and what if people are going to laugh at me, what if people think that it's stupid?

14:37So, yeah, every single day there are different challenges and I think you're right. You can't just rely on the momentum or the inertia of having previously been brave and presuming that that's going to carry you through things in future. Well, hey, congratulations to you, Turner Million. That is a big accomplishment. I think that is absolutely awesome. And I didn't know much about your channel. Now, my follower, I am tuning in. I like your style, bro. You're all right. Oh, yeah. I'll be tuning in bro. Got the seal of approval. Okay, so why do you think the world is in need of warriors at the moment?

15:11Not everybody needs to be an active duty. We don't have anywhere near as many kinetic altercations across the planet, unless you're Russian or Ukrainian. America seems to be pretty peaceful at the moment. Why do we even need warriors? Right. And so I know the military recruiting is 25 % down off its mark. And so the military would say we need warriors. But when I use the word warrior, I don't mean everybody needs to wear multi -cam and get nods Sidebar multi -cam is really fun. Yay for guns get lots of that stuff and all right But really I think warrior has to do with more of the heart of a man and who he is I think men are made to be strong and we're supposed to be Protectors and providers and those warrior -like attributes are absolutely critical to be successful as a man is part of your calling.

16:00I'm supposed to be able to be a leader and bold and fearless and courageous. I'm supposed to have grit so that I can carry heavy burdens. That's all the good warrior stuff. And so even if you're not getting shot at by Charlie Hyden and the bushes, all the virtues and the strengths of a warrior are absolutely critical for men to succeed in. What does a poet have that a warrior does not in that case? All the important stuff. So I like to like it. Well, so, you know, there's the first and second amendment and we'll use that as a metaphor for what I'm about to say. The second amendment is the right to bear arms and it's absolutely critical because it is the big bodyguard of all the other amendments.

16:46If you don't have the right to bear arms, ultimately, you're going to lose your first amendment, which is packed full with all the good stuff. That's, you know, freedom of press and religion and freedom of speech and do process all that stuff. And so second amendment is the only thing that will ultimately keep tyrants at bay. Not maybe way far in the future or maybe whatever, but ultimately all laws are protected and sustained by force. And so if all force is abdicated to a government, even if the government is super swell and sweetie pies, one day tyrants will take over. That's just the natural progression of all nations over time.

17:25And when that happens, the people will have no recourse. And that's why our founders put a second amendment in. I am doing my second amendment activism thing. I'm getting on a rabbit trail. I'm pulling back into frame here. And second amendment, safeguards the first amendment. The first amendment isn't a means to an end. Like the second enlightenment is, it's a means in and of itself. So there's the protection of freedom and there's the enjoyment of freedom. And it is the free man's duty to both protect and enjoy. And so all the stuff that matters most in life is packed in to the poet archetype.

18:01And so that's loving my wife and raising my kids. It's searching out truth and finding truth, having the courage to actually face facts and then be able to bring that in my heart until the truth boldly in daring and interesting beautiful ways. In this is philosophy and its religion and it's all the stuff that brings in of meaning and hope and morality, all that stuff, that's in the poet area. And so warrior and poet must be embodied in the same man. Men are supposed to be both. We're supposed to be lovers and fighters, not one of the other. In every single one of our brides or girlfriends wishes, perhaps they don't have the words that we're using here.

18:54But they want you to be bold and dare, they want a leader. They want your strength, but they also want your heart. They want to be able to be emotionally able to connect with you. They want to be swept off their feet with strong arms That is romantic, you know, and so they want the romance too. They want the whole thing and so it's not Lover or fighter. It's both it's lion and lamb warrior and poet What are we missing more of at the moment because it seems to me You know the hard time soft man meme that kind of is being shared a lot at the moment And I'm not convinced that soft men are necessarily loving men.

19:35I would go as far as to say that there's some pretty big lacks on the living and the hot side from guys as well. I think that a lot of men are floundering with regards to their position. What is it that I'm supposed to do? I'm scared of being seen as a tyrant if I try to enact anything that's too overbearing or masculine. But without that, if I try to do the polarity, which is the living soft sort of cuddly side, that makes me feel weak because I don't have anything to contrast that against. So what's your conception of the topography of current modern masculinity and manhood? I think passive men are neither warriors nor poets.

20:16They're weak in both areas. And so yeah, it's not that, oh, we're too poet -esque. I'm like, no, you're not in poet -enough. passive men are not active in pursuing their brides and dating them for life. They're not romantic, they're not vulnerable, they're not seeking out capital T truth. They're sitting on a beanbag chair playing video games eight hours a day. They're just log in time at work. They would do anything to self -preserve and stab someone in the back if they need to. They'll be nice guys, you know, maybe their polite, maybe they're real funny, but they're not making a mark in any area of warrior or poet.

20:55So I think men today need to grow in both aspects. However, I do think men are predisposed to be one more of the other. I'm naturally more lion. I'm naturally more warrior. I had to learn through a painstaking process how to save my marriage, which was really rough for the couple years and first couple years. And now it's really awesome. I'm 16 years in, bro. And I can, I wish, I wish I could, I wish I could just take what's in my head and heart and put it forth and say, guys, you have no idea how amazing a flourishing wife is and the power and passion and depth of that safe monogamy. And it It is incredible, incredible, but you got to fight your way into that.

21:47And so I wouldn't change that for anything in the world. My faith as well of like it grows over time. And so that right there has become the most important aspect of my life. But passive men don't pursue those endeavors. And I had to really, I mean, it's like the heart stuff. I feel like just a dumb idiot where I'm pretty good at taking a punch. I'm pretty good at pushing through pain and limits and sucking it up. I can do all that stuff when I need to foster boldness and aggression. I know how to flip those switches as well, but being able to turn down the dial in, be loving and affectionate and emotionally vulnerable, and really know what in the world's going on with my heart in the first place.

22:29You know, it's like, I'm the dumb, I'm the last one to know. My wife knows when I'm off way before I know when I'm off. And so, and then even when I'm off, like you'd mentioned before of like, uh, how do you get in that kind of fog and hey, maybe I'm not performing well on camera and something's off with me and I don't know exactly what it is and perhaps it's fear or apathy apathy when I start getting apathetic about stuff. I realize, ah, there may be fear under there. There may be some type of tension. Any delineate and see what the world's going on with me. For the guys that are listening who think that sounds a lot like me, the guy that is able to embody more masculine virtues, maybe they're not a fighter, maybe they're not out there taking punches and kicking indoors, but can lean into that more stoic, resilient nose against the grindstone type of person.

23:21Tactically, what did it look like or what were the most powerful practices or things that you did that allowed you to open up without feeling weak or fragile. Yeah, and so I think there is a terrible misunderstanding about what strength really is. I've like, when I think a strong man, I don't think you got lats growing out of your ears, down to your shoulder of like your deadlift is 700 pounds. But if you do have a 700 pound deadlift, of bro, I'm gonna buy you a beer. That's amazing, bravo. Man, there's all kinds of different areas where a man needs to be strong. One is physical, it's the least important unless you're fighting Vikings or something like that.

24:06There's emotional strength. If somebody cuts you off in traffic and you lose your mind over that, you're pathetically weak dude. You're angered too easily. Really, that sets you off. You can't even control your own stupid temper. Your weak man, your weak. and you need to grow in your emotional stability and faculties, right? I think your spiritual strength is more important than any of it. And from that, your character, your morality, all your meaning and purpose is really going to flow from that. I think mental strength, pick up a book, brother. You got to be smart. You can't just work really hard, grind it out, and expect your life to go really well.

24:48of that life is a series of all kinds of different puzzles and you're going to be smart to be able to figure this out. Like for instance, you don't talk to chicks the same way you talk to dudes and if you try to, you're going to destroy your life. You'll feel tough, but you're an idiot. You're going to destroy all your relationships because you're an idiot. And so we need to get stronger in all those different areas. I wrote a newsletter a couple of weeks ago that I think is very similar to this. I'm going to read it to you now. So I did a podcast episode with Chris Bumstedt. He is the Mr. Aleep Olympia Classic Physique Champion for years in a row.

25:23This guy is, he looks like he's carved out of stone. He's the modern day Arnold Schwarzenegger people are making a lot of comparisons. And during it, we spoke a lot about vulnerability. So, quote, never be vulnerable in front of your girlfriend is common manosphere advice. The guy that I was talking to is more alpha than pretty much every other human that's ever existed. And yet he told me a story of how he sobbed on the bathroom floor in his girlfriend's arms when the pressure got too much for him. Then he got up, dusted himself off and went to dominate his challenges and become a world champion.

25:52Is the thing hiding your vulnerability from the world doesn't make you any less vulnerable. It just makes you less honest. You don't change the way you feel by hiding your feelings from the world. Limits on speech are just limits on sincerity. If you believe that being vulnerable makes you a pussy, how do you arrive at the conclusion that feeling vulnerable and also not being able to open up about it somehow makes you less of a pussy. I love that. I would probably, I agree with it. I love it. However, I'd probably replace vulnerability with something like humility. Humility would be something that would be better outward facing to the public of everybody watching the screen.

26:30Let me model humility, but I don't know you. I'm not necessarily going to be vulnerable with you. I may have enemies out there. I'm not going to show you my soft underside of that, that would be a mistake. You know, you're vulnerable with wolves in sheep's clothing at work. And one day they're going to crush you for that. And it'll be your own stupid folly. You shouldn't have done that. You shouldn't have been vulnerable with those people. But you should be humble with those people. Now, the people you love love risks love allows some body to be able to wound you. You can't love and also safeguard and protect yourself at the same time.

27:08It opens up wide arms and bears it sold to someone. And so in the aspects of that, I think you should be vulnerable to those who have your trust, but that's kind of a sacred thing. Now, I'll be vulnerable in some other more superficial ways, and I don't mind doing that on the internet. In some ways, I'm being vulnerable right now, just speaking about some of the stuff. And so in some ways we can get into semantical traps, but I do like the word humility just a little bit better. Yeah, interesting. I'm not familiar with using humility in that way. It's probably something that I should look at a little bit more when I think about humility.