#673 - Phil Heath - Elite Performance Secrets Of A 7X World Champion Bodybuilder

26:57All those things got me to this moment right here, okay? But next week I got three days of photo shoots and I got to get on a fight to India to go compete against the same people That just beat the last thing I need is to let up off the gas and give these guys an opportunity to knock me off because theoretically they'd say oh Man Phil got lucky at the Olympia now. I got it like solidify the win so how many people think of life like like that of saying I need to solidify this win If I was, if I was salesman of the quarter, why not of the year? And if I was it last year, why not this year? And it just goes into that, you gamify your own process.

27:43You can't expect everybody to care about your success as more than you. But a lot of the time, it happens because you see, you know, your parents need potential, coaches, teachers. Especially in the beginning when you don't have the self -belief. Right. So at some point you have to remove that and say, well, I get that and I appreciate that. How about I prove myself right from what what does that mean? Well, let me just dream and this visualize all of it this visualize what abundance really is and realize That there's a pain tolerance involved, but how do I handle that pain? Talk to me about your relationship with pain Well my relationship with pain oh Oh man, I mean, we don't have enough hours, but I can give you an example of how I do with it.

28:31Well, you can easily super hyper focus, like going to the gym, like say, you know, break up, make great bodybuilders, those type of things, right? We already know that. But I'll give you one for instance, I've shared this story and you probably already know it. But, you know, a few years back, like eight years ago, oh, nine years ago, I was actually guest posing in Cleveland, Ohio for Dave Lieberman. and did a great event, you know, I'm posing, I'm having fun, having a great speech, can't remember everything, but I remember getting like a standing ovation, it was very rare, like people like, yeah, like this is awesome what he was saying and pouring into us.

29:05Then I get an alimo to go back to the hotel where I rinse all the tanning off and then I go do a meet and greet with like a hundred people inside of a restaurant. I found out that my father passed away. And I had the phone on speaker and the driver's like Mr. Heath and I said, just slow it down a little bit, Slow down the drive. If you don't mind. So I get to the room and I'm like, no tears. Does that make me callous? Trying to process this. It's like, well, you already knew that you're dabba sick, so this should come with no surprise. It's upsetting. Opening up the laptop and going on Facebook and then realizing that that's not the way to handling things because that's how everyone else handles things and you're not them and you're not giving yourself a time period of digesting what just happened.

29:59That isn't me that you're going to burst out in tears. That isn't me. You're going to yell. But I gave myself permission. I felt like, oh, I need to give myself some time to kind of like just sit with this and ask myself, what does this mean? You know what I got?

30:14It's like John C. Maxwell talks about the whisper when you're in silence. You get a whisper, it's usually from above, right? Or your consciousness. just this, you know, like, something that the voice saying, hey, you get a whisper. So just go to work. Got work to do. And that sounds like my father, right? So I'm like, okay, so I go into shower, I get everything ready and all I did was do a nice gesture. I called up my best friend, put him on FaceTime and your friends kind of know you. So the main idea they was like, no, and I was like, yep. Shout out to Keela, please. Cheers to my pops. That's that.

30:45But by now the promoters heard what was going on. They gave me every opportunity to just walk back to the hotel room, get a meal, send up, and call it a night and get on the next flight home. I said, no, I'm good. I just needed this moment to make sure there's no pictures. You know, just me and my boy were just talking and I did that and I did my job because guess what? I'm not the first person to go through this. And I look at it as a badge of honor of how I handle things in battle -tested moments. So I never was in the military, but I always think of that like people that get those stars those badges and stuff They had to go through something.

31:20This is my opportunity To say you know what I went through this and now I can help somebody else go through theirs because you imagine going through these things So you talk about paying absolutely. I mean yeah, I was upset But there was no time for that yet What I've learned is like you have to still give your body, mind and spirit, an opportunity to let those feelings come. And you can't always push them underneath. And I did that throughout a lot of my career. So I do understand pain of death with my father, his wife passed like two years later. Now I got my half brother, high functioned autistic, perfectly fine as far as like his scholastic achievement is concerned.

32:02and super hyper focused and that graduated high squad 15, fight it at a cap at 16. But now do I have to change my why to make sure that he's taking care of financially, right? Huh. Dilling with the divorce at the same time of running the business that's crumbling, having the ridicule go online because now in the Tomb Raider of bodybuilding, realizing also that I'm now chasing, you know, the J Cutlers, the Dorians, and now Arnold's of Olympia Championships. and saying, why am I doing this? And having the pain of just the physical torture that I had to put myself through and I put myself through it on purpose, because I knew in the end, it all be worth it.

32:44So I say my pain tolerance, I think, is very, very high. You know, I went through divorce, death, business, ridicule publicly. Those are all relatable things, but I did it all while still kicking a lot of freaking ass on Olympia stage. And that made me more powerful on that Olympia stage. So when I walk out, I'm like, you guys have not gone through this. I know your life, right? Because on social media, we all kind of share a lot. And some people over share. So now I really know what's going on with you. I'm like, oh, you haven't gone through this. Therefore you didn't have to do some self work.

33:17You, you have a, some of these guys had a perfect life, right? I'm like, man, you didn't have these struggles in shit. And you can't even diet. You can't even train. You have a whole entourage picking up your weights and stuff. I trained by myself 99 % of the time. Well, I know who I am. Like how Dore and Ace would say, they could never out train me, they could never out, that's why they couldn't beat me. I felt the same way. I out prepared them. I out -motivated myself. When I'm looking at myself in the mirror, I'm like, yeah, you're here. You're here to work. And you're gonna get this job done.

33:49And I call myself MFR a million, probably a million times. Because I also knew what legacy really means. What legacy really means is when you're in the dirt or in some mausoleum or whatever, people have some incredible things to say about you because of what you not just won, but what you provided them. And they knew that even your, the biggest hater is actually one of your greatest sound boards when you're done because of what you did. So when I decided to not compete, those biggest haters that were just dry, I mean, they weren't driving me and saying, I actually enjoyed it. They were the ones that said, man, I wish he came back because I don't see the level of competitiveness in this sport ever again.

34:35And man, I wish I could have appreciated him. And I look at that and I say, that's life. Sometimes we don't appreciate what the till has gone, but it's really cool to know that those people that just despised your greatness, really embraced your greatness in all essence. Because it was a reminder, Phil, he's coming to Olympia, there's a standard. I could, let's say I came back next year, not this creamy guy, right? That's right. The internet's like, yeah, yeah. But let's just say I did or did the Arnold Classic or something like that. People would get excited and some of you would say, oh, we can't do this and that.

35:14But then something there's gonna be a large majority says, but what if he did what if he isn't hurt? What if he isn't this what if he is who he is? They say well, that's over. It's not just like oh, he has a chance It's like no, it's freaking over and that was because of the standards that I created for a long stretch of time it was not luck and That's why I loved speaking Public speaking talking to different corporations and talking to see sweet executives about stamina which is a word that is never used, whether it be in business or in athletics. It's very rarely used. How often do you hear the word stamina?

35:48They don't, they talk about peak performance, but peak performance just goes, soon and it may go down. Let's go peak performance and hold it. That'd be much easier in endurance, but I like stamina. You know, stamina in the bedroom, stamina in the gym, stamina, you know, like stamina, reading the book, you know, but having peak performance with enough stamina, you are freaking unstoppable and you are now a machine. And I just I love people that are having high standards of themselves because they're always having an endless pursuit of personal excellence And it weeds out the bullshitters. It weeds out the fakers that we see online We see so much of it right now and I think it's our job to do exceptional work on ourselves So then the consumer of content will realize is he actually has proof in his performance based on the journey that he can share, that he's shared.

36:43Because, I mean, in your life too, I mean, you're a great storyteller because you've done work and you've had experiences. Some of the younger people haven't gone through that yet, so we can't talk about things yet. And a young Anakin Skywalker cannot talk in retrospective like who he was as Darth Vader before he passed. He didn't know who he was until the end. My job is to check in with myself. You know what I'm saying? In different chapters of my life, let's check in. Let's journal a little bit. Let's actually use a pen and paper because we know the neurological connection. Let's do that. Let's look in each other's eyes when we speak.

37:21Let's not do this at the dinner table. But let's also give ourselves permission again to acknowledge our failures and trim the fat seriously when possible. So you start off with this, the gift nickname, it sticks with you, it's got multiple meanings, it's layered. And then there's a really interesting period sort of 2012 to I guess kind of 2014, 2015 where the Dream Killer comes in. What did you think about having that name? I loved it. I actually loved that one more than the gift sometimes because that's like, to, you know, they say Kobe Bryant, black mom, black cat for Michael, air Jordan. Is it you Santa or is it you saying both the both, you know, like all these nicknames, you know, and dream killer actually came about because of the fans.

38:16After generation Iron was published, I was getting ready for the 2013, Mr. Olympia, and I had a feeling that that was my opportunity to close the door on Ky green. There's just closed the door because when the movie would come out and if I lose then they're gonna watch the movie even though it was based on 2012 Know what game you're playing Phil the way people see things on TV they made a watch 2013 They may think that's a previous show now. You're not champion anymore now that movie just makes you look like oh you fell off So I put that added pressure on myself and I stepped up to the challenge and I said you know what you're gonna train hard You're gonna train smarter.

38:57You're gonna you're gonna do whatever it takes to You know beat the living shit out of them on stage, you know, you're gonna and then I was like, well, how do you do that? It's like all right. Well, sometimes you got to train angry Take 20 11 take 2012 and merge them 2013 and I had one call out that year, right? Well, like I said after generation I a lot of people had opinions about me that I felt it was a very interesting because it was a docu -drama and it wasn't a documentary. So take me through this experience of filming generation I. So for the people that aren't familiar, from the past, originally pumping I and with Arnold, and then they actually did, was it total rebuild?

39:39Yeah, so it was two words, right? There was two names, the comeback and total rebuild. Yeah, it's different, but the same. I think pumping I was actually free available on YouTube, premium or whatever at the moment. Anyway, they do this and then the, I guess you would say the progeny of that production company decided to come back and show the new generation of money builders and the key rivalry in this is yourself and Kygrin. So take me through before it happens, what are you told about it, what's the experience and what happens after? It was pretty much exactly what you just said. It's like, we already know Pump and Iron, we're pretty much doing this for the new era.

40:15Phil, you're the champion, your role is the champion. You're defending for the first time. That's pretty much it. We're gonna follow you around. They literally parked an RV outside of my house for a week and they were in my house at the gym, driving with me, doing everything. A lot of hours of content, obviously, that still hasn't been published. You know, maybe they'd come out with a director's cut later on of me screwing around in the gym, telling jokes, talking shit, you know, like different things. I loved it because I also looked at it as an opportunity to maybe step outside of bodybuilding and go into Hollywood, kind of like what Arnold did.

40:48prematurely, you know, because Arnold did that film toward the end where I'm at the beginning. But I was like, hey, if they pull you away, you'd still be young enough to come back, right? So I go into the show knowing that I have to win. So I did that. And then obviously when it came out, it was, it was good. I mean, I remember seeing the two movie premieres in LA in New York and I was like, man, this is dope. This is exciting. And I'm looking good right now. So I know I'm going to win. And I remember my coach, Honey Rambo, pulls me aside and goes, this isn't good. I go, what are you talking about?

41:20He goes, no, it's a good film. But I think people are gonna look at you as the villain. The way they made it seem like you had everything, and I know you're a brain. You worked for everything, and they made it seem like you're just driving the Bentley, you got the house, you got two houses, you got the, you know what I mean? I mean while Kyle is living in this, like, was it bad? We're just completely bullshit. Like, okay, you have this house, but like I can't even speak on another man's income, but like you just do, you know, I'm a very logical person. I'm like, the fans all they have to do is say, well, this guy won the Arnold Classic a couple of times.

41:56Man, like this guy's not pro. He's got a weirder to contract. He's got a muscle man's contract. You think he, I know it. New York prices are expensive, but come on. Like, you know, man, 300 square foot. Right. I'm like, well, maybe that's just, he keeps that as a studio and maybe has another place, which I think we both know that that was probably the case. But they're, oh Phil, you have to realize they didn't tell you that this is a docu drama. All right. So now just like I said, when it came out, they had a viewing after the Olympia, after I just won my third title. Could you imagine I go in there and people are actually talking shit?

42:34So I stand up, you know, with the microphone on my hand, I go, hey, how many of you guys liked it? And somebody were like, yeah, and then I was like, you guys thought I was an asshole. People were like, yeah, I'm like, whoa. Oh, like, for me, I was at that point, I was like, why? Huh. And then I just accepted it. I was like, okay, I'm not here to change people's opinions of me, man, that takes too much time, energy. That's when social media really started formulating and stuff going to 2014. I'm like, just let your proof be how you win, bro, they just win. But now you got to train really freaking angry.

43:12And if they want that motherfucker, I'm gonna give it to them. You want a villain? I'll give you a villain. Because I can take it. Every hero became a villain in someone's eyes. You know, Hulk Hogan, the rock. Like they all became the heel at some point. But it's the good, but I was like, yeah. But you know what it was? Remember the movie was a Batman begins or whatever and they became like dark night. whatever and what did he say when it was like at the end of the movie and it was like after Harvey Dan got you know messed up and they said well why did he make it look like it was him and Commissioner Gordon tells the kid because he can take it.

43:54I was like Phil you're the only dude that can take it. All these guys can't take it they're all insecure they're all like if the lights were shining on them and them being misunderstood and having everyone's a ping -a's be spread on them they couldn't handle it. Only the best feel, only the best can handle it. Only the best can handle the scrutiny. You're gonna be the greatest because now they're looking at you with a harsher lens. It is not 10 times, 25 times, 50 times, it's 250 times magnification. Only problem is that sucks is that now I'm being judged that way. Like 250 times magnification.

44:33I'm like, in school with the teachers having a higher. So now I'm like, okay, that's the shitty part, but just embrace it, just use it. So I created the shirts. I made the merge, made a bunch of money off of it and played that part. And that was like my alter ego is like, so you guys want the dream color now. And that's when I started being able to, in my opinion, make people afraid. And I loved it because I see you smiling too, yeah, because we all have a dark side. And it was about me having that control aggression in the gym and even with fans. I mean, I was never rude with fans. You know, I'm saying like, I meet with them.

45:09I did the Make a Wish foundation stuff. I did the autism awareness events and all those things. Now, that may be overshadowed because of someone's opinion about generation iron. But again, Phil, you have to learn that the people who you aspire to be have the same thing. But 10 times worse, a politician has an a million times worse, right? An actor has it worse. I know actors that have played some great films and they, people see them on the street and curse them out. because they were a body. Right, and imagine. And so I'm like laughing. I'm like, these guys don't have that common sense, but that means that that great of an actor.

45:43So just use it to your advantage, man. And the problem is, is how I can't lie. Sometimes being the dream killer is so fascinating that it's hard to push them away, tuck them away. So then, you know, like my trainer said, like in an interview what a year ago was talking about like Phil Heso, John Wick, a bodybuilder. I'm like, don't kill his dog. Just don't kill his dog. Don't talk shit about his wife or something like that. It's like, you know, talk to me about how you reflect on your relationship with Kai Green. Because people call it the greatest rivalry in bodybuilding and it's then the stakes are raised with generation on it's the inception of social media.

46:34Right. Talk to me about that relationship with Ky Green. I think it is the greatest robbery. I think it's bigger than Jay and Ronnie's just because they were friends. We weren't. And I think we wanted to be friends, Ky and I, but I feel like because of we wanted us both wanting something so freaking bad and during the social media era, one camp, the other camp, they're talking so much. And we can see the chatter that it kind of made it look like, so you don't like me, Chris? Okay, it's like high school, you know what I mean? Like, you talking shit? And then all you do is look at me weird. And I'm like, all right, what's up?

47:15So I know that guy had to play psychological warfare because this is bodybuilding. It's not MMA, it's not boxing, you know, like it's not even basketball or football, right? It's just a person lifting weights and dieting and doing heavy amounts of cardio and posing. That is hard to impose your will on someone physically. So you got to figure out how he can beat me. So for him to start a fight, you know, like in 2014, flipping the hair and all this other, I don't blame him. People usually get mad at me for like accepting it in my friend's circle. They're like, man, like, here's cool. But I said, I expected it.

47:50They're like, how did you, why did you expect this? I said, listen, it all started. the damn press conference. But I knew he was gonna do something. I didn't know what I was gonna respond by saying the three facts and all this stuff. He'd signed his name. Oh yeah. Mr. Olympia. Yeah, he started doing it over your face or something. Yeah, yeah. So we have an Olympia poster that comes out every year. So when we get our Olympia credentials, our Pradeem, all that good stuff, we have to sign a bunch of merchandise. One of it is like a big -ass that we give all the VIP holders. So, you know, of course, you know, I'm like, it's front and center, so people are gonna sign like maybe the leg or this and that.

48:27This fool like took on the face. I'm like, oh, it's like that. Annie wrote Mr. Olympia. I'm like, okay. How many times did he do it? For like a whole row of them. I'm like, oh, he's trying to send a message.

48:41So, you know, basketball mentality comes out right now. I was like, oh, this is, oh, I love it, the disrespect. I love it. Like now I get to make this more intentional. And he has no idea what I look like. He's then going to try to probably say something at this press conference. Why? Because that's what I would do. Know thyself. Know your opponent. Know how to respond versus react. See, when you don't play through these things, So when you only get fixated on how much food and water do I drink and yes, I have to do this mundane stuff You need to work on the mind of figuring out all the different permutations that can exist all the different scenarios that can happen That way you know how to handle yourself and anything that comes towards you.

49:26So I Gave him what he needed at the press conference and he had nothing to say after that And that's when I knew the only thing left was for him to try to do something physical and I handled it well and Unfortunately, that was like the end of that pre -judging. Yeah, they split you apart, right? You've done his wolf in between you, and no one's walking through him. I mean, in a way, it was F -Dut, because I'm like, we're not performing now. And it was a bigger adrenaline dump as well for he and I both. I know he probably had it because I've got to. So talk to me, on stage, you've worked toward this thing for ages.

50:02Generation I and is out now. Yeah, it's already out for the second year. Yeah, so you've got the rivalry is not only private. It's public. Yep. You've had him signing his name on your face literally On posters You've had him talking shit at the press conference. Yep, and then you get on stage and he's got this like predator pony tail If you whips and hits you with and then has something to say, and then you sort of jostle against each other And then there's this legendary photo of you finally turning and looking and it's you guys face to face on in the Olympics stage, what's that emotional dump like with all of this pressure and all of this preparation coming up?

50:44It felt like high school when everybody's like, fight, fight, fight, fight. And then you're basically getting into it and then there was the fans energy that I felt that got calm because all you could hear is, if you were there, you would be able to hear Steve Weinberg's voice get elevated and they turn the music up louder because they wanted I guess they were trying to drown out the crowd noise like like it was cheering it on because they kind of were and then I realized two big ass dudes oiled up and posing trunks supposed to fight nah you're not paying enough for this nah exactly someone's getting the drawers pulled out you know something hey it ain't happening That's not the fight that I signed up for.

51:32So let's go ahead and calm this shit down and get back to work. And it's getting in here. But you're right. So I realized right then and there, the fans really messed this up. Because the fans were egging us on for two years now. Because you gotta think, 2012, there was a moment where Kyanire posing. You know, you do the back shots and I used to always kind of like, that was in 2013. So, it's way 12, we're doing a back shop. And I look back, no, I look like this, and I'm kind of like looking at the glutes because it's kind of like letting the judges know he ain't got what I got. So I was like, come on man.

52:12Oh, you stopped him on the ass? I kind of like touched, like touches lower back or something like that. I was like, come on. And then, so then he was, he, there's a picture of him like looking at, he was gonna punch me. Yes, yes. So no one remembers this, right? But you know what it did? that was the no flinch with Matt Barnes versus Kobe. So I was like, yes, I got him. Now I'm in his head. He wants to like, you know, all right, 2013, Arnold Classic Madrid. That's when we're doing this. And he's just pissed. And I'm like, got him. Well, get back to talking to Phil in one minute, but first I need to tell you about Factor.

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54:07Right. What do you know about how Kai felt during this rivalry? Well, he had to feel, I mean, of course, he's going to feel robbed, right? Because he's going to think, well, I look good too. I've put in so much effort. I've gone through so many levels, so many levels of adversity. I deserve this. And I'm only one person away, one person away. And then once I got him out of my way, I can have everything I've ever wanted. I get to now every time I see Phil, he's I see success. I see what life is presented him and what he's been able to experience. And I can't have the same thing without going through him.

54:47I got to go through him. So there's a level of empathy I have even now. Like I realized that. I've got to go into it. Yeah, we've, you know, it's very interesting is that we've had a few conversations. Kai Green gets credit for me because he was the first athlete in the IPB to call me after I lost in 2018. And he was the only one. He was the only one that picked up the phone. And we talked at length. And that made me feel, I mean, it wasn't like an emotional like I'm gonna cry, it was more like the person who knows me the most is the one that I battled against the most, right? And he basically gave me some, so much needed words of like Phil, they didn't be Phil that I know, they beat an injured one.

55:41You're still the best ever. And to hear that, You know, it made me feel good because, well, in my opinion, he was right.

55:56And he would know that because he was, he knew what he was going against. And he knows that, man, if, if, imagine the amount of stress Phil had to go through and I need to, I need to reach out to him and let him know like everything's cool, man, you're going to be okay. Like, and he's already, he was, he reminds you, 2018. I mean, he was already four years removed or three years removed because he did an Arnold Australia, I believe in 2015 So here to he started that transition away Yeah, and I had yet to decide if that was what I wanted to do So he was giving me an option on that phone call of saying Phil now you're at this point where You don't have to prove yourself to anyone The judges can do whatever they held.

56:41They want you've solidified yourself like I respect you and I thought damn like thank you and you know since then I mean we've always had that you know casual I mean now granite during the conversation there was still FU Phil and this and that and you know just because we can't it's like we can't be like like, home art, cars, and roses and shit. We still gotta be like, I respect you, but fuck you, man. You know what I mean? And I'm cool with it. I saw a Kai last year at the Jim Shark event here in California, and we both were just like, there's just that vibe. And we both know that it's cool. It's cool to be like, him saying, fuck you, Phil, he's the nice and fucking Kai.

57:27You know what I mean? Like, it's all, and you know what's funny? It's sweet. Yeah, it's like a term of endearment. Yep, and fans though like when they see us in the room like everyone would get quiet Oh, they think there's still a big deal of velocity and there isn't there's more respect than anything because That's what it should be but it always was is just that when you're battling We respected the game when when I don't think people have seen I Mean outside of a a J and Ronnie situation to highly competitive people that were voice -trust about what they wanted. We were extremely voice -trust, and if that meant that we ruffled the feathers of the opposite team, we didn't give a shit.

58:09We just didn't, we couldn't, because we needed their support. We needed those fans sometimes to remind us like, yeah, man, like, okay, we got this. I mean, I would see people arguing out the Olympia Expo over who's gonna win, and this and that Kai's fans coming up, talking trash, and I'm like, I remember posing in the audience and people would say stuff and I'm like, what happened to your boy? You know? And then the fans were like, oh, and it was like the, so it was like some WWE stuff, correct. And as much as some fans want to make it seem like for me, I was being like extremely like negative or whatever.

58:47I was playing along just like that because at the same time, I mean, we're providing sports entertainment. And if I can have a little phone with a troll online, I'm going to do it, you know, like, and, and, uh, because I should have fun, I should have fun with this. This is great. Like, it's really cool that I can have certain types of powers that I can literally transform my physique into something that no one that could ever imagine. Well, think about it this way as well, that it's not just the enjoyment of being the sportsman, but it's the enjoyment of being a personality as well, of, you know, developing a brand.

59:19And if the brand for a short amount of time is to be the villain, like no one, no one looks back. Floyd Mayweather, you know, like played for a very long time. They did a... He fought on Cinco de Mayo and called it Cinco de Mayweather. Yeah. And came out with the... With the Subrero. Yeah. Yeah. And like, just a professional troll before the word troll exists. That's right. Right. Do it. And now looking back, people, I mean, some of his most recent fights, maybe his padded is record a little bit. But I think that playing that heel and doing that is, I don't know, if you have the psychology to be able to absorb it and stay equanimous, I think that that makes for a much more exciting, the greatest rivalry in bodybuilding, right?

1:00:10It wouldn't have existed had you not have had the rivalry, right? It wasn't because of the bodies, maybe it was in some regards, but it was because of the personalities. Yeah. That was what made it happen. And it drove competitiveness. How much better do you think you became because of Kigre? Oh, extremely. I mean, every year it was like, you get the CM guest pose on the circuit and you're like, oh shit. Did you respect his physique? Oh, of course. I knew... I respected it all the time. The problem is that just because I respect it and I have an opinion of it, like parts of me was like, gosh, all they had to do was be who we was when he did those Arnold classics and the 2012 Olympia and he might have got me.

1:00:59Maybe that was the difference. Because he got bigger and he was trying to manage too much size. Ky Green is probably probably, if not the most dense bodybuilder we have ever seen. That includes Coleman, like density wise, because you gotta think you're shorter than Coleman, weight as much, nearly as much, and it was like deep, separate, deep cuts, like deep, deep, like very, like slabs of beef, like when he does the pulling the elbows back and you see the Christmas tree, thick, striated, lats. Just very deep. Now, he lacked the chest size and the depth with that and the shoulders, so that's why Coleman would get the edge.

1:01:35But, you know, people would think of Dorene A, so like being very dense. If we could see those two up on stage together, I'm telling you right now, Chi Green, because of the quads, because of the side of the hamstring, the hanging of the, forget it. It was just slabs of beef, dude. Like this is guy, you see him walk around off season, and every 3x pan that he's wearing looks like they're leggings. I mean, it just is amazing. And he was able to keep this condition throughout the entire bodybuilding season. So I would always look at him and say, well, you're not focusing on one major thing. And that is the peak and bodybuilding is about the peaking.

1:02:12You can run the 100 meters in the semi -finals and break the world record, but when you rather do it in an Olympic final, I'd rather do an Olympic final. It's more significant then. And it takes more discipline. It takes more strategy. So that's where I looked at bodybuilding. It's like everything is a strategy. Everything is a process leaning up to two days. That's it. All I got to do is be ready for two days. And that you know I was able to do that obviously countless times but yeah Did he raise my game level up? Absolutely and I and I benefit from it Give me your thoughts on Chris Bumstead most popular No rival

1:02:51Really good bodybuilder I saw him when he was coming up at like what 19 20 years old guys over at team muscle tech like you said, tell me about him, because it, you know, Muscle Tiger's Canadian company pretty much. And they were saying, oh, this guy's coming up and I said, yeah. And when I, and they're like, what, you don't think, and I go, I'm gonna treat him just like they treated me, meaning I see big things, and he's done those things. And like I shared with him after his Olympia win, I said, now it's just you. You've solidified yourself in this category where it's just you. You're running by yourself now.

1:03:25You have no equal. And what do they do? They raise the weight limit up for everybody else. But now he has to realize that what I was saying was true. Because they only change the game when you're dominant. Happen the Coleman with the challenge round happened to me when they decided to make the fans a judge at the Olympia table. They actually put that in Flex Magazine by Jim Mang in himself. So I realized like they do this to make it more entertaining. It needs to remain competitive and if someone is making it too uncompatitive, right? So so Yeah, they you're telling me that There was an opportunity to tell Chris maybe this in January Did you tell all the athletes at the same time?

1:04:13Maybe maybe not right because there's certain athletes that are going against them right now that are you know much bigger in their off season So it makes you question and did they already know or did someone in their camp kind of hear something? Because everybody in this industry can't hold water. So, I think of Chris Bums that he has a great reach, great opportunity, great following, great responsibility, and an incredible amount of responsibility right now. Why? Oh man, because look at his demographic. It's not, it's like what, 30 and under. It's not 30 and over, 30 and under, probably 25 and under.

1:04:53So your legacy is going to be predicated how you become a leader for these younger people. See, I can still inspire these people, but they're going to maybe reach towards someone that is around the same age. So that's why there's a responsibility because he's not perfect. He's still learning. He's still young. He's very public about his failings, his insufficiency, his fears. is, did I sat down from, but with him for two and a half hours, a few months ago in Florida, I genuinely think he might be the most likable person I've ever met in my life. He is so beyond the real deal. It's insane. And if there was somebody to be this particular micro -generations fitness leader, people talk about Rogan the same way, especially people that have been friends for a long time.

1:05:42And they say stuff like, you do realize how rare it is to have a benevolent king. The guy that's at the top of this particular industry is one who is more concerned with raising other people up than raising himself up. And it's happy to just spread spoils all the time. The timing with Chris is impeccable. I think so too. I think that's what helps too because I would say a Jay Cutler with social media back when he started would be just as popular if not maybe more. But it's all timing too. And I feel like Chris has done an incredible job at being a champion, being a person of transparency and vulnerability to allowing people to see, like you said, the ins and outs, the flaws, the shortcomings.

1:06:27From the bodybuilding eye, what are you most impressed by with regards to Chris' physique when he steps out to do the classic? When he decides to do what? know when he does because he's in classic. Yeah, right. What are you most impressed by when he steps out on stage? His confidence. Um, this past year I felt like it was his confidence because he knew that he in order to set yourself apart from other people, you had to know who you are. Right. So he knew who he was. He's like, I got to go out there and give them a show now. Now he's looking into the camera. Now he's like, you know, now he's putting on a performance with his posing, even in pre judging.

1:07:05When you get a chance, watch how he walks out now compared to when he first started walking out. It starts to realize he is that Jedi. Not a master yet. You're Jedi. You know what I mean? And he's got the look. He's got the stare now. Now he's playing with the crowd and that's a performer. See a lot of people in the general public don't realize that we're performers of art, of body art. Now he's willing to show it. And that's was very impressive. Now I can actually pay attention. Before I would just say, oh yeah, you know, it's champion this net. Spassier, I was like, very nice. Would you give in a second life?

1:07:44Would you have ever enjoyed having a crack at classic rather than open? Would you have been interested to see what you could have done had you have had different kinds of criteria? Put it like this. Naturally, I wouldn't have been able to do it. Without PDs, I wouldn't have been able to do classic. Of course. So what's the point? I would have been at a disadvantage going against guys that are enhanced doing classic, but I could tell you, I mean, the look that I had, like when I won the New York Pro at 208 and a half, that I guess that's classic. That might have put me in the criteria because I'm 5 '9".

1:08:26It wouldn't have been challenging. If you give me the opportunity to go back in time and say, okay, it's 2005, Mr. USA's Eternpro as an open class bodybuilder, but yet you're still undersized. You're going to compete around 210, but you can have an opportunity to squeeze down and do classic. Would you do it? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Because to me, Mr. Olympia is the one that can take on all challengers. So the Sandow trophy exemplifies that. So I need the biggest challenge I can have and knowing that it's a process It's a process. I can still get these little wins out the Sean Ray the New York Pro the Iron Man But these are these are little wins and I can say that I've slayed dragons David versus Goliath type of stuff.

1:09:11I mean think about the guys that I beat in their prime Now when it gets a lot of guys that are different shapes and sizes, right? Classic would not allow that for me. It would only be him Yeah, understood. Yeah. One of the things that came up in the conversation with Chris, your sport is psychologically, home -only, physically, pharmacologically, very taxing. And I asked him about any concerns that he had around longevity. Were there any points in your career where you were forced to make a choice between, well, if I keep pushing like this, I'm concerned about what this is going to do for my health over the long term.

1:09:53and talk me through that mindset when you love this. I love this conversation because I took less than everybody and I can point it out. I have a blood work from the very beginning. How deep can you go into that? Okay, so I wanted to miss USA taking 500 milligrams of testosterone with a shot of deco week. I didn't have any money, but I whipped everybody's ass. First crack at it and quoted as one one of the greatest Mr. USA's of all time. Didn't take growth hormone until my second Arnold classic. How deep are we in there? I turned pro -105, we're talking about 2008. I had already won two pro shows and now I decided to take growth hormone for the first time.

1:10:38And you're still running 500 milligrams of tests? No, I was probably doing like 750. Very minimal stuff. Because here's my thought process with this. You watch Fast and the Furious. You know this good old saying too soon junior that plays in bodybuilding The guy that hits the nitrous too fast and the race loses every time why because that car Was what little Honda Civic with a little turbo kit and some bullshit Handmade handcrafted Ferraris will always beat that shit and if you put a little bit of a mod on that thing You can't catch them. So you're saying that I rather would build, okay, better analogy.

1:11:24You go super saying and I can beat you on my base form. The internet is happy. So I'm saying, Dragon Bull Z. So let me go ahead and beat you in the base form. Let me work on the base form. Is that so it seems like you're... Then I can't rely on this stuff because here with pharmacology and stuff, are you really getting in there for a valuable source? Are you getting in from Bayer? Are you getting in from sharing? Are you getting it from these companies? You don't know you don't work there. You really want to tax your body You really want to take something that you really don't know That could really hurt you And now you're becoming a drug addict buying drugs from someone at a gym You're buying it from drug dealers.

1:12:01I know drug dealers. I grew up around drug dealers I know the mentality I stayed away from that shit because I was like you know it like let me just go ahead and slowly Roll myself into this because if I want to have longevity after the after my career It would be nice to show that my blow work can prove it. Would you ever release that? My blow work? Yeah. For money, I'm not just going to offer it up to somebody, but you know, that's HIPAA, that's a lot of, you know, maybe on my own podcast someday. Okay, so I could walk you through what, why? Okay, so I do the Arnold Classic in 2007. I had one of the first two pro shows in 2006, Sean Rafe and New York Pro.

1:12:39Realize I need more time off to do the Olympia. I was gonna be undersized. It made no sense to get my ass beat by a bunch of guys that are seasoned veterans. Did the 07 Arnold place fifth first time ever losing, right? Okay, let me take more time off. Decided to have a deeper off season. Understand that what is the difference between me and everybody else? Well, it was just time. Time in the gym, time in the gym, time in the gym. Not drugs? What is drugs gonna do? It's not gonna shrink time. You need time in the gym. Okay, so it's drugs. So I pound everything and then what you know my trainer said well I can get you to mr Olympian two three years but we don't know after what was gonna happen after that so think about that mentality that we see today everybody's pounding the stuff and here's the funny part the muscle the muscle tissue is damaged the skin texture is completely off look man you see see the skin texture you see that with anybody else probably not I'm not even running shit, you know what I'm saying?

1:13:38Like, how do you build that? You build it with the base form. You know how to come off appropriately. You know how to do something like what Arnold would say back in the day. We knew how to do stuff during. It's not an all year thing, because now you become a drug addict. You know what I mean? Drug addicts are in bodybuilding, a tremendous amount, because they're chasing something, but they're not winning something. So you got to be a fucking idiot to go ahead and take all these drugs, right? Not when, put yourself in not only financial debt, physical debt. It seems to a lot of people, especially looking at your era, unbelievable that you wouldn't have just been taking everything under the sun.

1:14:21But why should I, when I was able to win my first couple of amateur shows clean and then just add a little bit, when I always heard of a finishing touch, that was what was always talked about. And then I also saw guys in Colorado that were running a lot not winning Mike well Okay, so you run too much stuff. You know what happens you developed side effects right So well if everybody's doing it. Nah man. Why don't you just be different because maybe I don't want to do this Maybe I don't want to have to take drugs like this. Maybe I'm afraid of needles Maybe I'm afraid of what the the side effects do you ever do you do you own a animal is 2000 book?

1:14:58Do you own these different ebooks that tell you the good the bad the ugly with it? I studied all this shit. So the last thing I ever and you know it's funny The real truth is that what if they started drug testing severely Soverely I have no base form I have no base form physically and also emotionally Take all the drugs away. It's like taking the Instagram away from an influencer. They lose their shit What was the maximum that you ever got to in terms of his test? Yeah, 1300 I tried 15 and then I was like starting to get watery and then I remember no I did 15 So I was at 13 and I was like let's do 15 and then like another dose later, you know like another week goes by and I was like all right 17 and five or whatever I think because it was like all sustenance like that I Just got more watering Just stupid so then the same thing with growth hormone like okay, so Well, medical journals will state that if you take too much of this stuff, right?

1:16:00Like now you're actually gonna inhibit what? More insulin, you know, problems, you know? Cause I never run an insulin, never ran in my entire life, never. Wow. Give me some money I'll put on a freaking show, like, hand on Bibles, like, light detector test, but you're gonna pay me that million. Cause I'm gonna take all your damn money. I'm gonna take it all. So anybody out there wanna challenge? Just put the money up and I'll do it on national television. I don't give it down, but you're gonna pay me though. because you're not gonna put me through this bullshit and me not get something out of it.

1:16:28So there's that part. But, you know, I messed around with Tran and stuff like that, but even that, I've realized how harsh that is. That's a stupid. It literally says, like, livery kidney damage and all this. I was like, ah, and that's not happening. And you know what's funny for me? What's funny for me is that I tried it enough to realize that I have hyperlactin levels when I take it. So, oh, so you got hyperlactin. Now you take Dossin X. Why am I doing this? I'm adding all these things in. I don't know, I just focus on the training and the modalities that I'm talking about. Like, I'm the one that did the infrared sonnus.

1:16:59I'm the one that bought the Fattara's 320. I'm the one that did, you know, shit, neuromuscular massage. I'm the one that's doing, you know, DRX 9000, you know, with the decompression of the spine and stuff like that. Well, taking acupuncture, while doing stem, while doing oxygen all the same time, living in Denver, Colorado. I'm that dude. You can't name another fucking athlete that do all you see is cold plunges and dry an evening and scraping, which is stupid as hell because you see how they scrape and they're scraping people doing a grass and when they're the their blood blisters and stuff that's not gonna yield any growth that's just being dumb.

1:17:35So, look, you know my drug use was very minimal because I understood that there was life afterwards. I had some favorite, you know, PEDs and stuff like that like you know like Winnie stuff like that and growth but I mean I just made sure that I took enough to get the job done. Because again, if they were ever going to start testing for shit, I needed to be ready to just be like, I don't need this. I have a foundation. I got a foundation. And you look at me now, people say, oh man, you look younger, you look this. Guess what? Because I treated my body right. You got these other guys. And I also didn't have social media.

1:18:07Here's the thing, when you don't have magazines, you got social media. A professional body builder right now is actually having in the side if there are an influencer or a bodybuilder. You see what I'm saying? An influencer can get on some cycles and stuff, almost look like a pro, which they try to do. They take all the best angles in the lighting and all this other shit. Some Photoshop their shit, they sell courses, they sell products and stuff. And they do it for a short period of time, right? But they can create like a thousand episodes within six months. And then they can kind of just not do events, because you see some, you don't see a lot of events with them at because, and they can just dress normally because they're not a pro or whatever, right?

1:18:51Pro bodybuilders now feel like they have to compete with them. And the same, and they share the same sponsors. So unfortunately the owners of these companies just focus on certain levels of engagement now for a bigger person that weighs over 240 to 270 to 240. Now how many 300 pound bodybuilders we have compared to Ronnie's era a ton more and they don't outmass Ronnie with quality muscle? Why? because they're taking drugs more than they're actually doing the work. They're not allowing the body to catch up. So you think that one of the problems with the current generation is an overreliance on the disease.

1:19:25Pro, you see it on TikTok, you see it on YouTube. What are we talking about most mostly, mostly on it? Nati -O -Nah. I'm sorry? Nati -O -Nah, that's like this thing, right? That's the meme at the moment. And none of them are. Show me what you look like in high school. Show me that you have the the actual integrity that you can do this for a long period of time. Majority of these people are showing their sensationalizing drugs use. They're no different than a drug addict. Well, get back to talking to Phil in one minute, but first I need to tell you about Gymshark. Gymshark make my favorite training kit.

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1:20:34Also, they just updated my super secret product page with everything that I use and recommend for men and women. Check out all of those pieces at bit .ly slash shark wisdom and use the code mw10 at checkout to get a 10 % discount site wide and worldwide with no minimum order size that's b -i -t dot l -i slash shark wisdom and mw10. Check out. You mentioned that trend and this is something that Chris brought up and I thought it was really telling that both of you guys have said this. It was something that he tried. He's got autoimmune disorders. Yeah, so he definitely can't be doing that. No, and he was like, it's just way too toxic.

1:21:11But he conceded that it got him to a place during some particular competition that he would struggle to get back to it. Now he's got my size and he's got blah, blah, blah. But there was certain elements that it facilitated in his performance. Oh, like as far as like physical hardness or the muscle conditioning and stuff like that. I can understand. I can understand that. For you, you said that insulin is something that you didn't want to ever touch. trend would be something else. Was there anything else that was completely off the table for you or why with them or anything else as well? Well, I felt like trend usage.

1:21:43First of all, again, we're not in the old school era where you're getting like real parable and stuff, so you don't really know. So and then look at the color of it. Looks pretty gnarly, man, we're injected some color of it. It looks like orange. like you really want to push something that talks to your body like I don't know man and then what people talk about like okay well it has to have a filtration rate of sessions that's with benzoyl alcohol and therefore you're gonna have the trend cough and blah blah blah man why am I even wanting to go through this shit how many times that I sit there coughing my lungs out because of this damn drug is like is this really necessary can I just do something else and why not insulin Why do I need it?

1:22:26I'm already winning. I'm already winning. Why do people do it? Let me ask you. Why do you think people do it? Because they want to be bigger and leaner. It makes people leaner? I think they suffer from the fact that they want roundness. They want fullness in the muscles. Because it's the most antibiotic property in the body, right? So they figure like, oh, if I take this I look bigger and I, you know, I think I have some of the most well -rounded muscle we've ever seen. Why do I need more? I just need more separation. I need more striations. I need more. I mean, that's what I need. But that could, for instance, let's say that it was more dryness that you were going for.

1:23:05It was more separation in the muscles that you were going for. That could have encouraged you to run a shit ton of something else, a shit ton of growth hormone, a shit ton of wind straw, a shit ton of something. If you do that, you're only going to get, all right, so you could use wind straw for instance So you're gonna do that and now you got, you know, water -based drugs, misting with oil -based drugs. You're gonna have pockets, bro. Like it's, you're gonna run out of spaces here. If you notice that my shoulders, like even recently, they are more striated than majority of people that compete, why is that?

1:23:33Because they're doing all these, they're pinning all this other shit in there. Oh, so there's just sight inflammation? Of course. And the judges don't even know any better right now. They just look at it like, well, it looks round and it's not, how do they know? They're going from old school, like how it's supposed to look and... Sice of pups. Who has striated shoulders? Damn, right? Damn. They only got this part. They don't even have striated rear delts. Only for the day of the show. Now some of them do. Don't get me wrong. Some of them do. But you know, you start seeing all this, you know. I mean, you give your dog insulin enough they're gonna develop scar tissue.

1:24:11You know what I'm saying? So like, these guys have to be very worried, in my opinion, that with all the abundance of these new drugs that are available and peptides and stuff like that, you gotta be very careful. And you have to ask a question, how much blood work is being talked about? These guys aren't talking about, they'll talk about a little bit, oh yeah, my doctor said, no, they didn't. What doctor are you really dealing with? Have you done a Boston health scan? I have, you know what I'm saying? Do you actually know what parasites you have? I have, I've done a GI map and stuff like that.

1:24:39This is what we're talking about. If you were able to even do a certain amount of breath work, you would actually get more oxygen into the body, which wouldn't make you bigger, you know? Did your holistic, more holistic approach to this stuff, I think would surprise an awful lot of people, an awful lot of people. Yeah, because they assume, I just took a bunch of drugs and this and that, because that's simple, because everybody could do that. It's like, no, man, in order to get seven Mr. Olympia amongst these guys, you gotta do something they ain't doing. And what they're thinking you're doing is drug related.

1:25:12I'm thinking, well, no, man, like for three months after the Olympia, I go vegan, right? Or something like that. I'm just gonna try it. I'm just gonna try it. I'm gonna come off on all supplements. People will say, oh, Phil's not that big in the off season this and that. It's like, yeah, man, I'm letting my body heal. The war's over for now. Chris does the same. Chris has a obviously doesn't need to hold quite as much. So I also learn from guys like myself and Jay and other people probably too. I've realized I'm like, you wanna do this for a long time? You gotta treat your body right. And he's being smart with the modalities that he has and the money that he's earned, getting the stem cells and doing other stuff, I mean, it's smart.

1:25:47I didn't have that shit. That was one thing I thought I had that. But I was always looking and I still do, to this day, I think what we're seeing again, like drug addiction, how much you take it. And then I have to ask him like, man, you look like that and that's what you're taking. That means you need more time in the gym, just training and diet and short gratification, short term, man What do you think it's not it's not good? What do you think the most sort of egregious uses at the moment? What would you guess I hear a lot of kids talk about trend like nonstop? That's all I hear and I'm like why would you want to talk about the most dangerous drug around?

1:26:32I Mean I get it like you want to run a little bit of testosterone or something like that, but man these are also kids your natural testosterone is already through the roof. And the problem is imagine that, imagine that. All right, so you got kids that are 18, even 17, on up to their mid to late 20s. Buying God knows what bathtub dries or what, you know, they get an old mesco stuff with the perils and got those on. You know what I mean? Yeah, with the little rabbit on there. I'm gonna king a root. Yeah All for the oh yeah, man that trend bro like you know dumb you sound like a fucking clown And you'll be funny when you're in your forties If you make it You know I'm saying Had some you know right prominent deaths.

1:27:21Yeah, or people that couldn't continue to compete because these things and I refuse to you know cosine this I'm even the guy that realizes that diuretic use is Big deal Because man that's hard but that's blood pressure meds man like what are you doing? So you're trying to get you know more water out right? If you abuse that you know it can happen to you right? I mean you can die right is that something that you were very conscious of? Yeah, because I know how to read What does this do do I really need it? Why do I still have water on my body because you have more fat on your body fill? Why don't you just do more cardio, man?

1:28:02Why don't you just over cardio yourself? Over -training yourself so you don't have to do that. You know why my muscles popped in with round and this and that and the other? Is that because I fucking insulin, people thought like, oh, you dummies, I train a certain way. I wasn't trying to max on bench and squat and this now is going for more volume, using what I have, okay? I just needed more density over time. I already had the round this when I was playing basketball in high school in college. I already have this. Here's when I already got. I'm not afraid to die it. Oh, you need to get the water out.

1:28:42Oh man, this prep hurts. You know, I can't drink in the water. All right. Well, you know, I only had two water breaks in a college practice. You know what I'm saying? Like at the beginning and in the middle. Right when you walk in you may take a sip of water, you take some while you're shooting free throws after you ran we used to run this do this workout called three sixteenths. So before that you know you do all your drills and then you have like a mini game five on five mini game 20 minutes running clock going over you know game plan this and that and the other but you're going hard right but it's 20 minutes running clock so you got to go hard game game speed playing 20 minutes running clock game speed is hard and then after After that, you gotta run 316.

1:29:26So 316 is sidelined to sidelined 16 times in the end, in the ends. 16 touches in one minute with one minute rest. And then you do it again, one minute, one minute, and then that 316s in six minutes. And then you go through free throws. And if you don't make over 70%, you gotta get online. Online? Online. You gotta run more. Now you just go down and you know, not side to side, right? I know what it feels like to be parched. You know what I'm saying? So like when it was time to cut water, I'm like, it sucks, but the only thing that sucks was having to eat while being parched, you know, being thirsty.

1:30:08Oh, interesting. You got that. But I didn't have all that like, oh, you know, I can't think, I can't this. I'm like, I've already been prepped for this. Now I'm already having more confidence knowing everyone else is suffering. Everyone else is suffering. and I'm suffering, but I know what it is. Talk to me, you've alluded that to differences or uniqueness in your training style. What was it that you, what were the principles that you attribute your success to from a training standpoint? Oh, no one who I am. It all goes back to no one who you are. I'm not a guy that was bench pressing 500 pounds in college.

1:30:47You know what I'm saying? Like, I wasn't that dude. I was strong, but I wasn't one of those guys. Like you get like, so you gotta know who you are. Like for me, never bench press over four, five plays. I did five plays before and that was a lot. Like four ninety five. So like, all right. So let's just say 500 pounds, you know. I think that's good enough for one rep max. There's guys that can rep that out, but I'm like, but I beat them. So it's not necessary. What's the degree of difficulty to, you know, where's the point of no return mean? and I'm getting diminishing returns, potentially getting injured on a back squat, you know leg press, I had to know what those numbers were.

1:31:26But as you get stronger, you're 70%, 80%, 85 % 1 RM for, you know, like hypertrophy range reps, that still continues to go up, right? Because you are getting stronger over time. So presumably like you're still having to ramp that up. Yeah, but I also train by myself. So you want to go put 700 pounds on your back by yourself? Be my guess or you could put three plates or four plates and wrap it out 20 times my leg workout. Let's say for 2012 and 2013 Olympia Five sets 20 rep 30 315 squats with two minutes resting period takes up from the top again So you do leg ascension for pre -exhaustion? Yep, just do like three working sets for 20 or whatever you want to then you go into back squats You know you warm up with the 135 the 225 and then you throw three plates on three 15 on you know three on the side You do that 20 reps Take two minutes and do it again and do that for five reps five rounds five rounds of that Sorry, yeah five sets of that and you probably only a 12 minute workout and then you keep going now You're still doing your vertical leg press your angle leg press you're walking lunges Now we're going to hamstrings.

1:32:40Okay, so you're doing the calves. And now you're going to do that three days later. And you're doing that while you're still doing cardio for the Olympia on a step mill. You're still doing that squeezing your glutes every repetition, not actually leaning over the fucking equipment like everybody else because they're a pussy. You're actually standing up straight. And if you are holding it, it's just something you don't fall. And you're stepping. And you're squeezing. And you're building your legs while you're doing it. And you're doing it for 40 to 45 minutes. Once if not twice a day. That's how I got the Shredic glutes.

1:33:07That's why you saw the cores running down my hamstrings that no one else has, you know what I'm saying? So I Made it difficult for a reason Because I knew if I could train by myself doing that I'm gonna be better than everybody else But mind you yeah, you know when I if I did have a spot I still wouldn't say hey man. Let's go do you know five plays six plates You know I've done that and it's like Let's if I'm gonna go more than four plays on the back squat and I feel really strong I set up putting another fifth one. How about I just do front squats with four plates? Let's just do that. Yeah, just change the angle.

1:33:40Yeah, just change the angle up because now we're running into a point where My body's gonna be conditioned to lift all this crazy ass weight and I may not be getting the muscular activation That is necessary to proliferate the growth and the separation that I need so then I can compete because you can see how the muscles grow Like you know if you said if I not that I did but I had the mind muscle connection I know when things are firing. I have enough levels of body fat to see things moving. If I don't see things moving, I got a few things to register. Data, maybe there's a compression in a disc, so let's make sure that I'm getting the chiropractic, the acupuncture in a decompression going, right?

1:34:17Because if some of this compress is hitting the nerve and I'm not getting the firing. You can't power it. So, I'm always paying the attention to all these things. It seems to me that you're talking about volume here in a way that I think a lot of people wouldn't. No. Wouldn't typically have thought of, you know, anything of a 14 is cardio, is a meme, but I never heard that, so that's what they say. Anything of a 14 is cardio, it's like a bromine. So these bros have never won a fucking sand down, and that's the problem. So they're doing this shit because they are young and they haven't tried anything long enough.

1:34:48They're expecting such a vast amount of muscle or weight gain and then they're like, well, no, you need to do it this way. It's like, keep doing it that way. And let's see what you look like. But first of all, this analyze your goal. What is the goal? When I set it goal to compete and be somebody, let's see what you work out at. Let's see how this works. Let's really quantify these things. So you're playing with reps, rest, and intensity. Yeah, I want intensity here. I want to make sure that I can do it, right? And the one saying like, oh yeah, 25 pound dumbbells is gonna build you 23 inch arms.

1:35:24No, what I'm saying is that that you need to definitely produce enough strength to grow those big muscles, but at some given point in time, is it necessary to curl a hundred pound dumbbell to get those arms? No, I proved it. I also proved to grow a back. If you see my back from the amateur ranks through the first years as a pro to the end, one of the best back's ever, right? I did that with no dead lifts. Show me a video of me doing dead lifts. Why? Because I wanted to prove that I could do it without it. Why not? What were you doing instead of deadlift? What was your issue with those? Ben, because, you know, when I was getting ready for the USA's back in 2005, I kind of had an accident.

1:36:10I was doing like 625. Conventional, not sumo, conventional, and I felt something in my neck and I was like, that's fucking stupid. So sometimes you get in the tap on the shoulder by an angel saying, hey, I covered your whereas this time, next time that pop may be something. So I was like, all right, this is me talking to Honey Rambo, my friend. Honey, what do you think I should be doing? He's like, all right, if you're gonna do dead lives, just doing with dumbbells or like do it like a rack pool or something like that. So have I done rack pulls, yeah? Because rack pulls. Because rack pulls. Yeah, because rack pulls, you know what I can do?

1:36:44As I'm coming up, I can rotate right here, and I'm now squeezing. If you just take, if you keep your chest up right here, and you're like at that 90 degrees, and you kind of pull back, you're filling your lats. That's all I have to replicate. For me to have to go all the way down and do it. For what? I get it, like I'm not saying that people can't do it that way. I'm saying for me, this way worked. So from 2005, you basically didn't deadlift for the rest of your bodybuilding. No, very, I mean, from that point in time, especially during a prep, like I said, if it was not in one of my DVDs, it probably never happened.

1:37:29Okay. Yeah. Let's say that for the rest of time, you only had 10 exercises to hold onto and grow as much muscle as you could. What would you choose? And why? Inclined presses. No question about it. dumbbell? Uh, dumbbell more likely because, you know, it's just you can do a lot with the dumbbells over the barbell, right? Um, I always want that shelf up here. It looks great in t -shirts and uh, yeah, you know, if you're hitting a side shot, you want the upper peck development to exist. There's something about the angle that's so comfortable as well. Yeah. It feels so now. It feels right. Yeah, it feels right.

1:38:08Yeah. You don't feel as much in danger. Yep. In my opinion. Yeah, And when you're doing flies, you know, like you can just it just feels so good, you know, so that would be one of them Sci -laterals for sure dumbbell lateral raise Standing seated standing for sure. And where do you what were your cues on? I knew you're gonna say this. Yeah, from the side to the side. Do you out in front a little bit here? What do you think in to the side? Yep to the side? Are you leading with elbows leading with arms? More just I guess that would just be with arms, right? Yeah, yeah, so yeah, because sometimes you You see people almost flaring up with dumbbells down.

1:38:45But as you did that, your traps moved. Yep. So I don't need that. Yep. I don't want that. Lower trap. Now that's going to, uh -uh. I just need to get it. If I'm working this, I understand it's a secondary muscle, but I don't need to be. You're isolating. Because you end up doing this. You see guys like to come down and they're doing this. You see it. Why is that moving? Can I deactivate it? Sure. Right here. Okay. Cool. Let's do that. So okay, oh One arm preachers One arm preacher curls dumbbells again. It could be on a machine or dumbbells You know but but since we're gonna you know only have some dumbbells on a deserted island We're gonna do that but you can use whatever you want.

1:39:27Yeah, so you got the best gym in history But you can only use 10 things definitely a preacher curl. Okay, I'm wise single Because I can concentrate more on one arm than two I can also isolate and understand why is one's arms stronger than the other and am I performing the rep the same on either arm now if I'm in a fixed position I can't tell so I need to see I need to feel and I need to physically see this so I need to be on that or are you gonna see? Oh yeah, I'm gonna do that. But I also gotta recognize, am I having any bicep tendon stuff and shit like that? Which I actually have right now. Like damn, okay.

1:40:08Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, that's three. So that's three. So that's three. Hacksquats for sure. For sure, Hacksquats. Oh my gosh, it just feels incredibly strong to be in that position. I love it. It's, yeah, I did a lot of damage on that machine. What are your cues when doing HACSQA? Well, you know, the platform. I can go wide, I can go at the top, I can go at the bottom, I can go narrow. You know, I need to go a little bit more now. I'll give you, you can have that, that can be all part of full. Yeah, exactly. But it's all the same as this system. You're playing the system. Okay, so that's full.

1:40:50Okay. This is fun.

1:40:56Um, rear delts, but, but, uh, face pulls with the, uh, with the, with the rope. Okay. I love that. Yeah. Around about eye height. Yeah. Yeah. Right here. Yep. Um, you know, since we're using that rope, you know, tricep extensions overhead. Down. Okay. Yep. So that's what? Six, six. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Four more. You gotta throw another chest moving in there. So, I mean, we did the incline dumbbell press. We gotta have an incline dumbbell fly. Why both of those and what are you getting out of the fly? You know, getting a good stretch and I'm able to contract differently as well working that same plane.

1:41:47Real adults, what about back? We gotta throw some back in there. So underhand barbell, uh, uh, uh, rose underhand bent over, bent over rose underhand. Yep. Uh, what's your reason for going underhand rather than overhand? Um, because I've noticed that overhand, I'm getting more of, I'm initially, you're going to fill it more in your forms right here. Yep. And I'm only going to get so much and I feel like it's more like I'm going to, there's more margin for error. I believe whereas if you're coming here, I don't feel it as much. And it's simulating what I would do on stage, pulling elbows back. So would you do, uh, I guess, um, I'm going to, um, I'm going to, um, I'm going to, um, a part of that as well is restricting the injury risk from being bent over so much.

1:42:26Like underhand you're always gonna be a little weaker. So would you do that from a rack rather than from the floor? Well, I've done that from the floor. Right. Yeah, I've done that from the floor. A lot of axial loads being at that angle below a back, but it's much less than a deadlift I suppose. Yeah, but sometimes you can go to like a squat rack and then it'll have like the little bars there. So you get safety bars, so you just pull it off of that. Cool. Okay, I think you've got two left. So I got two left. Ooh, boy.

1:42:54What have we got? Let's recap. So we've got the incline you got incline dumbbell incline fly. Lateral lateral raises. Yeah, you have hack squats. Yep. You have single arm single arm preacher push downs face pulse face pulse and then I'm over underhand. You know what? I'm going to go with pull ups. neutral underhand overhand overhand wide and I guess last one would be another legs step mill you could use the step mills the 10th exercise and did you I can carve out the legs I can you know I can I can do glutes with that did you ever do that weighted yeah actually I did I were a weight vest for what show was that.

1:43:43It was early in my career, we were like weight vests and I wear like ankle weights and I did something that no one else ever did. I was using EastM units while I was doing cardio. Like a compacts? Yeah, I used to compacts because I was sponsored by them for a while so I was doing compacts on step mill. Did anyone the things that electric stem training is not like put an SP P6 or an SP8 on you and turn it up to 25 % and try and do a squat and ask what. Yeah. And tell me that it's an absolute agony. That would, the only thing I think now is like, you know, the neuroplasticity and like also like neurofeedback you get by using one of those machines.

1:44:31I don't, I would love to be able to test that because I think with it doing the work kind of for you, you may lose some of that. So you have to be careful, I think, with overloading it. Yes, because you can push it further than you should. Because you can push it further than you can really do it. So I know I did that, but I'm an extreme athlete, you know, with that. When it comes to the stepper, very, very popular cardio exercise for honey builders, what are people missing? What are they getting wrong when you see other They're holding on to the, they're holding, they're hugging the damn thing.

1:45:04You know what they're also doing by doing that, they're rounding out their back and you think about doing this. You're, I mean, just me doing this right now, like that doesn't seem comfortable. Why not just stand straight? Let's slow it down. Maybe, you know what I'm saying? Maybe not having that five or six, because I gotta, and you hear that person stomping on the damn things. If they weighed 250 pounds or something like that, you know their knees would be shot. There needs to be toast so you're using control even on stuff you should you should you should you should you should have it at level one level two and Slowly do it now it now the reason why you won't do that ladies and gentlemen is because it's boring But think about how much muscle activation you'd have on that with your glutes and quads with each step actually being purpose driven So my whole mentality when I would do cardio and I'm giving you all the damn secrets man put it like this, you gotta gamify your cardio as much as possible.

1:46:02So if you can have every step count towards something, you could actually sculpt glutes, quads, and is that the whole point of doing cardio or you just wanna sweat? You just wanna sweat and burn calories and stuff? It's a close to difference between just sweating and having an account. I'm building muscle. Wouldn't it be great if you could do cardio and build muscle at the same time? Yeah, but it feels like I got to slow it down and I got to squeak. Yeah, you're being more intentional. Just like if you were doing eccentric movements, I'm being more intentional. This is bodybuilding, man. That's bodybuilding.

1:46:38It's not always going to be as fast as you want it to be. It's not about you anyway. It's about your muscles. It's about using these machines to make them get the maximum benefit while reducing the most amount of physical strain on your ligaments and joints. It seems like getting your ego out of the way is a big. how they're gonna do it when they got a rooting session for them at the gym. They got to be by themselves. And a lot of people can't have that option. So granted, like I had keys to a gym and all this other stuff, but you know, I was raised as an only child, so I knew who I was long time ago.

1:47:06Yeah, so you get it. That's why we get along, man. Like, yeah, you know. I was interested in this.

1:47:13The, you can call it the only child effect, I think. I think every, every only child that I know, there's not actually that many. Yeah. Has a degree of introspection. Some of them more frequently have a degree of introspection that is rare, I think. Not always adaptive or useful or enjoyable. Even in me, sometimes especially when I was in my teens and 20s, I kind of wish that I could have switched it off. But now it's one of the things that I enjoy the most. I enjoy my degree of introspection. I enjoy the conversations I have with myself. Yeah. What have you reflected on about how being an only child impacted your mindset, your approach to all of the things that you've done across your career?

1:48:09I'm my own first responder. No one's going to save you, Phil. You have to be your first your own responder. You want something in life, you have to want it more than anybody else. And you have to assume that there's no one else to help you. So, what are you gonna do about it? You're gonna wait for your cousin or your big brother. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, I don't have no big brothers or sisters, right? So, that means you gotta fight your own battles. That means you have to be more calculated. Can't be like the other jackasses, you know, walking home from school, picking a fight with you because they got the bigger brother.

1:48:42Yeah, because they got the bigger brother. Beat your ass if you decide to beat him up, right? So you got to be smart, right? You got to be like, all right. Am I? But maybe I am willing to do that that one day, right? Because I'm calculating on how I'm going to do it. You got to know self love. You got to understand the words that you tell yourself mean something. Because if there's no one pouring into like a big brother or sister that tells you like, oh, Janelle didn't like you because of this or this is how you talk to her next time or John, John, just doesn't get it. And this is what I do. You need to really have your own data and then ask yourself questions at a very early age, right?

1:49:28Emotional regulation. And I would say for me it was great that I grew up in the 80s where I was a huge martial artist fan and I love Bruce Lee so I started taking martial arts and competing in competition. So it was about you and focus. So when I would be by myself, I'm like, I can do so. I can, yeah, be like water. I can, but empty out my cup and understand that there's things I should learn. And play life with your eyes. He's doing something stupid. I don't need to be doing that. Let me pull myself out of bad situations. Let me give you a model that I absolutely love. It's the reverse role model.

1:50:08So I grew up in a very working class area of the Northeast of the UK, famous for only having the highest teen pregnancy rating in the UK, which it then lost. I didn't even have that anymore after a little while. And there were some people that had certain characteristics like the sort of person I wanted to be like, but there were far more people who were like the person I didn't want to be like. So I came up with this idea of a reverse role model, which is I could look around the cricket a club that I played at or the school that I went to or wherever I was and say, okay, I really don't want his relationship with his wife.

1:50:45And I really don't want the way that he treats money. And I really don't want his gambling addiction. I don't want the way that he speaks to his friends. So good, man. Yeah. I really think that much of success in life involves avoiding pitfalls more than expediting successes. Yeah. There's a rule from mathematics called never multiplied by zero. And it means that if you take 1 million multiplied by 3 ,000 multiplied by 2 multiplied by 444 multiplied by 0 You get zero, right? You never multiplied by 0 and an example here might be You spend all of this time eating organic you avoid seed oils You make sure that your blood work's done, but one day you decide to drive your car without a seatbelt All of that good work 444 ,000 times, 1 million times, the, the, the, the, the, the, multiplied by zero.

1:51:38You spend all of your teens being responsible, you go to college, you get the degree, you start to build up a really great life and you're just about to go and start traveling the world and you decide to have unprotected sex with somebody and someone gets pregnant and it's an accidental pregnancy. It's not quite zero, but your life is now taken in an unbelievably different path. Choices and consequences and absolutely I agree with you. Yeah, so I think Trying to find examples of people like the person you don't want to be like is Maybe more valuable than having role models like the person you do want to be like a row 100 % I mean like I said earlier play life with your eyes Observe and then ask yourself if you want to be like that Because you're hanging around them It was interesting, my book in Agent Thomas, we were in the Uber heading over here.

1:52:37And a gentleman that was driving happened to be in the same neighborhood as me growing up. Very crazy. And we were basically talking, he was actually he was sharing about a person that we knew. They got shot and killed out here. Years ago, you know, playing the NFL this night, you know. So anyway, and I was like, man, over a traffic stop. One decision of getting out of the car, being this big ass dude, charged the cop now, were they supposed to shoot him? Hell no. But emotional regulation. That one decision, he paid the ultimate cost. So, where I grew up, very synonymous, like style, like what you're talking about, we used to call people stumble, bum, stumble, bum.

1:53:36Like you're going to be a bum one day because you stumble and over, you know, you stumble bum. So I drug dealers, I saw a lot of drug use, I saw teen pregnancy. see my first high school dance ended up in a friend's brother getting shot in the face six times about 10 yards away from me. So I had to understand like you start hanging around certain types of people bro like you're gonna be around more bullshit. So now you gotta realize also this is why your parents would always try to over be over protective and tell you what to do and so you can't always be defiant. But then you have to play life with your eyes and know that there's a certain time that you should probably head home.

1:54:13That kid don't have curfew because maybe his parents just don't care. Maybe his parents aren't there But yours are so you need to make better decisions because your choices will always yield either positive or negative consequences Better put them condoms on boy because you just might get a kid out of it Is that what you want? No, then either don't have sex or be protected, right? In my high school, so damn ghetto. I mean I hate to say this but like or they were it was ghetto there But it was smart. We had a teen health center inside the high school You can go get columns, you can go get checked for SCDs, all this stuff because it practiced season, you know, SCDs.

1:54:45So I'm just trying to be preventative. No one that kids aren't going to listen. In fact it's just funny, like when I graduated college I remember my stepdad, you know, my mom was like, you made it, you made it, you made it. I was like, yeah, I made it like, and I'm like, pop, like made it out. Well, pops it, well you didn't get a girlfriend. You made it, you didn't get a girlfriend. We don't forget about the diplomas. Yeah, forget about the degree. You know, I should. Yeah, you did all that without causing any trouble. But you know what we're talking about too? Chris is that we built social equity through all the decisions.

1:55:21All of the knows that we told friends or family or even that crazy bastard on our own saying, go do this, go do this, you know. We said no, because we were driven by our legacy. We're driven by something that we dreamed about. And we knew that getting behind a wheel of a car while you're inebriated is just too much of a price. I refused to do that because, man, do I really want to be in the paper for that? Do I really want to kill somebody or myself or one of my friends? Do I really want to, you know, this is crazy, but I mean, it's just like, you know, you play in life with your eyes. I remember when Len Bias died.

1:56:00Famous basketball player, he was drafted by the Boston Celtics. This guy was gonna be better than Jordan, okay? Like just imagine this, like, you know, you have like a big three. Well, the sales has already had that. And they're gonna add in, let's say like a LeBron James. He was basically like built like a LeBron James, buff, cashew, rebound, everything. You should look him up. He did cocaine the first time on Draft Night died. Died. Done. Didn't even get to see his first game as a pro, right? a champion that never was. You gotta think as he's probably Odin. Oh shit. Zero. Zero. This is what I get.

1:56:46And this is where we have to acknowledge the different demons that people have and understand. But I just wanna feel something, I just wanna blend in with some of my friends. I just wanna have, man, I just have a little bit, little taste, hit a little taste, it's done. So seeing that I cried. I remember telling my house I was like, what's wrong? Baby I was like, he died, you know, he died. He died. And that was an opportunity for her to say, this is why you'll never do that. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, I've always tried to be mindful of that angel that's inside of all that says, hey, don't do that.

1:57:28Don't touch that hot stove. You're gonna get burnt. You know, you're gonna learn a couple lessons in life and those lessons are always paid with a price that's expensive or inexpensive. Inexpensive? Parking ticket. Expensive, then bias. You gotta figure this out and you gotta be, you can't be so ecotistical that you think that your cheat death or cheat the system or whatever. So it's the ones that actually do all the things the right way throughout their entire life that have built a real legacy. And it's something admirable. Am admirable. So here's the thing as well, man. Imagine that you do manage to make a number of bad decisions and stack the deck against your favor.

1:58:15And somehow you do make it through. The only way that you've done that is by putting a blindfold on and running through a minefield and simply by chance, I would rather try, and this is my risk of ocean, right? In business, in everything that I do, I'm very, very risk of us, which means that I sometimes don't take opportunities when they come, but it also means that I usually tend to avoid pitfalls as best I can. If you do do the wrap the blindfold on, tie it and run, the only way that you make it through unscored is by sheer chance. That's it. Sure, chance, you know, um, if you're faith based, I mean, you could throw that in there for sure.

1:58:59Um, but yeah, you may not want to try that too many times. And what you're speaking of in my opinion is a level of discernment.

1:59:12So understanding that there's a ideation stage and then you have to figure out strategy and you have to figure out those pitfalls, right? And then make it relatable to you. Like, would you play Mario Brothers, knowing that there's like a place where you could jump. And if you miss you die, well, there's part of your life. Hey, man, like you're going to jump, but calculate it. And there's some people who will take that jump every single time. And you're like, dude, there's no response. Yeah. There's no response in this life. So you got to be very mindful of this shit. You got to be very mindful of, hey, I'm going to try this drug or I'm going to do this.

1:59:50Be mindful, man, because there's some people that have had some really bad, you know, data that doesn't support your decisions. You really want to do that. And if you do, hey, and you make it, there's still data that says, if you try it again, you may, you know, it's like Russian Roulette, you know, like eventually, you know, you're going to lose. So what are you willing to lose? What are you willing to gain? How do you leverage these things? And hey, it's your life. You make it make sense for you. But yeah, I know like with business and stuff, really you only learn shit is when you lose, you know, it's a great teacher.

2:00:29Some of the greatest entrepreneurs are the ones that lost eight if not nine figures in their 30s to then be a billionaire in their 50s. But now a day as I look at this, I'm like, where can I actually learn from as many people as possible that have made mistakes? You know, like sometimes I always look at like pastors. They're not perfect. A lot of the good ones had bad past. You know, like, oh, that was this, I was this. They could talk from real world experience, you know? So I just try to line myself with people that have endured some type of level of adversity but understood the patterns, the strategies, the enough is enough mentality, like enough is enough.

2:01:10I screwed around when I was in high school in college. I screwed around, man. It's time to grow up. And harness that energy within and push it. And just keep going, knowing that there's gonna be pitfalls, there's gonna be, I mean, but you're gonna get some, you're gonna get hit, man. I think a lot of people just don't wanna get hit. And that's what goes back to the pain tolerance and stuff. And you gotta know you're gonna get your ass beat. depending on what you want. If you want just the typical five grand a month job, I mean, yeah, you may have some things, well, I make 50 grand a month. Come with a different level.

2:01:46You want to be five million a month. There's some people that listen, they'll say, I don't want to be that CEO. I'm good being the CEO or even just CEO level person because I can still see my kids. They can have a great life with me. They value things different. They know that if they put too much emphasis on just this title of running the Fortune 500 company. Someone may get left behind and then they may not understand whether it be my wife or my kids or my friends. You know, I had to think about that in my career like, you know, with friends. They're not going to understand. So you can't hang out with them.

2:02:21A lot of my thirties, I didn't see my college friends. But it's all good because I got what I wanted out of it. It's kind of like Kobe Bryant. Like he didn't hang out with people. He didn't do those things. you know, on draft 90 goes to the gym. You know, that's, I think that's how you, that's how you answer your call to greatness. You do it and you don't stop. You do not stop because, oh man, it would be really shitty at the end of that life of yours that you were able to look at the version of self that you should have been and that person kind of puts their arm around you and says, I feel, man, you could have done all this.

2:02:59Let me tell you about it. And I, and you, this is supposed to be the promised land, but before we walk there, I just got to show you what he could have done. Now you did okay. And I want to hurt you, but this is who I am. And you just be in tears. So upset that all those wise and erode, all those decisions that could have been made with some sacrifice, with some discernment, with some humility, with ability to just say enough is enough with this BS and I just need to have some stamina that you could really achieve who you truly supposed to be, not just for yourself but for others because that's really what I believe in like afterlife is that I would see that person and he would be able to say, look at the people who you impacted based on what you did.

2:03:53And, you know, I, I, uh, if, when I have moments where I am fatigued, I think of that. And I focus on that. And that's when it is just get your ass up, bitch. You know, like, you got to say whatever it is because that future version of self is someone that is really the gift. And if you really think that, imagine the people when they walk past your grave, that's very eighth. I met him at the expo and he had a whole line of people and he poured into me, man. And son, that's the role model I want you to be. He helped me. I won't stop until I, you know, in my opinion, can lay down and say, you know what?

2:04:54I know I help people, not because I held a phone on my hand and stuff like that, but I know because those people were right about you. See, we have followers and stuff, but, you know, if you Google yourself, you probably have less search results because no one wrote about you. I looked you up, people write about you because you do things like this. You produce intellectual conversation, well, I truly appreciate. And I wish you all the best because this is dope. But you know, got me thinking men in general have to dream again have to start declaring what they really want and they can't just be a watcher or a fucking car man.

2:05:42It has to be something of true legacy that if none of this really no jewels mattered what jewels are you leaving behind that are in the mind that can imprint on someone's soul. Phil Heath, ladies and gentlemen, Phil, I absolutely adore your energy. I've really, really, really enjoyed today. Where should people go if they want to keep up to date with all of the things that you're doing at the moment? Just at Phil Heath. At Phil Heath, and I'm redoing my website because I got a lot of cool things coming up by I have an upcoming documentary that will be announced at some point in time, hopefully this year, called Breaking in Olympia.

2:06:16it actually has one film festival, a words in the Florence Film Festival Awards for best documentary and best director. It's being co -produced by Seven Bucks Productions. I think you guys know who that is with Danny Garcia and Duane the Rock Johnson. So be on the lookout, either for that at the end of the year or the beginning of next year is being picked up by a Hollywood studio, which is the first of its kind. Even Pump and Iron didn't have that. So I wish I could tell you who it is, but put it like this when it's a Hollywood studio. So it always starts with their name at the beginning. And of course, I'm working with Trans -N, a great HRT company.

2:06:54We produce a lot of medications for people, but more importantly, we work with veterans, which I truly appreciate their commitment along with first responders. So I sit on the board for their foundation. So I hope raised money for those people in need, especially at the top, that have been knocked out of the fight, that have PTSD, TBI, those things. So you can follow me obviously on my social media. You can click the link in the bio You can see all the cool stuff that I'm doing, you know shout out to FlexPro meals all those guys chic Jim Shark of course cuz that's why I'm here and I'm really excited to proliferate more bad asser with this company because I watched them for the very beginning being at the freaking body power at the NEC, you know what I mean and seeing their Stamina and their willingness to champion through not just Jim Shark but the Jim Shark lifting events that we put on so So yeah, keep training hard, training smart, and of course having a whole lot of freaking fun, inspire the people who are willing to listen and if they don't, keep doing it anyway and just having that smile no matter what, man.

2:07:51Bill, I appreciate you. Thank you, mate. Thank you.